Bush used terror to get re elected

[Stinkbug]

Tom Ridge Book (http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/08/20/tom-ridge-kisses-and-tells-on-bushs-terror-levels/)

... Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Attorney General John Ashcroft – pressured him to up the terror alert level before the 2004 election ...
Is this pretty much the lowest anyone can stoop to?
Does the GOP think they can not win elections without spreading fear about something?
If you are a soldier ready to give your life for this country, how does this make you feel?

[Hands Sandon]

Mushroom clouds..... Hmmmm... George Bush is a fucking mass murderer.

[jazzguru]

I thought this was all common knowledge.

[jimmac]

I thought this was all common knowledge.

It was.

[sammi jo]

The terror factor was the Bush Admin's raison d'etre, Practically everything in their agenda was related to, or centered around "security" issues triggered by the 9/11 attacks. Anyone recall how from January to September 2001 how little was going on politically? The admin was pretty much a dead duck... and in August 2001, both Bush and Cheney spent almost a month at their respective ranches in Texas and Wyoming, and even the media were starting to ask "WTFs going on here?"

The post 9/11 period re. the Bush Administration, puts pay to the notion that government is a lumbering, inefficient dinosaur; within a few short weeks they launched a brand new big mega- government department, got one war started and were well into the plans for a 2nd, they passed the Patriot Act, the Homeland Security Act, trashed chunks of the Bill of Rights,.... to name a few. They got their ducks in a line in record pace, and terrorism was the key... real or imaginary, and it was a long series of imaginary or fabricated terrorist threats which were the key to keeping the public terrorized. (Real ones would make it appear that the anti-terrorist policies weren't having much effect].. so that was presumably by them a no go).

Remember those bin Laden phony videos? Recall the website which broadcast "al Qaeda" messages which was hosted by an Internet company (Everyone's Internet) in Houston whose CEO was buddybuddy with the Bush Admin's Navy Sec? The claptrap about terrorists manufacturing bombs out of hair conditioner and toothpaste on planes? The constant stories about "imminent attacks" which had no credible origins, from websites the media could never name? The list goes on ad infinitum

The Bush Administration was invested to the gills in terrorism, and to make sure they got their 2nd term, they exploited the idea of "terrorizing the public without causing any physical damage", to the max.

[groverat]

This was common knowledge at the time; too obvious to deny rationally.

It's funny, though, how little we care about the blatant manipulation of death fears.

[SDW2001]

Tom Ridge Book (http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/08/20/tom-ridge-kisses-and-tells-on-bushs-terror-levels/)


Is this pretty much the lowest anyone can stoop to?
Does the GOP think they can not win elections without spreading fear about something?
If you are a soldier ready to give your life for this country, how does this make you feel?

Yeah, because it was all for the election. We don't need facts...just coincidences.

[Bergermeister]

This was common knowledge at the time; too obvious to deny rationally.

It's funny, though, how little we care about the blatant manipulation of death fears.


... and yet lots of people voted for Bush.

Many are likely the same ones yelling down the current town halls on health care... Ignorance is bliss, and fear is amazing.

[Stinkbug]

This was common knowledge at the time; too obvious to deny rationally.

It's funny, though, how little we care about the blatant manipulation of death fears.

Yes it was, however it feels different if it is confirmed by top ranking officials who were in charge of the security of this nation.

Scaring people to get votes: OK and good, democratic and beautiful.
Trying to give them health care: NAZI policies.

[jazzguru]

Yes it was, however it feels different if it is confirmed by top ranking officials who were in charge of the security of this nation.

Scaring people to get votes: OK and good, democratic and beautiful.
Trying to give them health care: NAZI policies.

The current administration is no better than the last. It amazes me how some people refuse to see this.

[Stinkbug]

The current administration is no better than the last. It amazes me how some people refuse to see this.

Thanks, I did not know I was amazing.

[Bergermeister]

Yes it was, however it feels different if it is confirmed by top ranking officials who were in charge of the security of this nation.

Scaring people to get votes: OK and good, democratic and beautiful.
Trying to give them health care: NAZI policies.


The evils of the Bush administration will haunt the US and the world for many, many years to come. Their supporters will ensure it.


"Socialism is Evil!" "Death panels!" They scream in public parks, at public schools that they drove to on public roads patrolled by public police officers and served by public fire departments all while their grandmothers receive Medicare.

[sammi jo]

"People who use terror". There's a word for them.

[SDW2001]

The evils of the Bush administration will haunt the US and the world for many, many years to come. Their supporters will ensure it.


"Socialism is Evil!" "Death panels!" They scream in public parks, at public schools that they drove to on public roads patrolled by public police officers and served by public fire departments all while their grandmothers receive Medicare.


Socialism is not evil, but it's not what this country was founded on. In fact, it's the opposite of the ideals we were founded on.

Death panels is certainly overstated, but the core meaning is accurate. We'll have the government rationing care. It's not avoidable in a public option system.

And public roads, parks, police, etc? Those are all things the government SHOULD be funding. I doubt you'll find a many (if any) conservatives that thinks otherwise. The same goes for Medicare. Conservatives advocate taking care of those that cannot care for themselves. Our government goes way beyond that though...to the point of having its hands it everything it shouldn't. Then, we wonder why we don't have money to do what government ought to be doing--maintaining infrastructure, law and order and protecting the populace.

[Northgate]

The evils of the Bush administration will haunt the US and the world for many, many years to come. Their supporters will ensure it.


"Socialism is Evil!" "Death panels!" They scream in public parks, at public schools that they drove to on public roads patrolled by public police officers and served by public fire departments all while their grandmothers receive Medicare.

Yup. All of this coming from the party of Not My Problem™.

Oh, and remember when liberals cried foul about the terror alert system, and conservatives on this board like SDW and Trumptman mocked and ridiculed liberals and their "unhinged" "bush hatred" and how they will "blame Bush for everything."

God it sucks being right all the time.

[jazzguru]

All the time? About everything? I thought you said you were wrong about the Democrats.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=1467165&postcount=1

Or is the the Republicans' fault that the Democrats don't know how to govern?

[SDW2001]

Yup. All of this coming from the party of Not My Problem™.

Oh, and remember when liberals cried foul about the terror alert system, and conservatives on this board like SDW and Trumptman mocked and ridiculed liberals and their "unhinged" "bush hatred" and how they will "blame Bush for everything."

God it sucks being right all the time.

That's because the Bush hatred WAS unhinged. It still is. We still have comments like this:

The evils of the Bush administration will haunt the US and the world for many, many years to come.

Come on. Anyone that says that just can't be taken seriously. And as for being right, Ridge's book states that he SAW raising the alert level as politically motivated. He saw. That means it was his perception. Let's not forget that Ridge was no friend of the core Bush administration. He's a moderate. He didn't play well with Cheney and Rumsfeld. So conflict is not exactly unexpected.

[Taskiss]

Ridge's book states that he SAW raising the alert level as politically motivated. He saw. That means it was his perception. Raising the alert level before significant events doesn't seem to be politically motivated. Terrorists often pick an anniversary of some event, or some time when their acts can be magnified by the media.

Eve of Y2K, Forth of July, national election, etc, raising the terror alert level for any of these dates would seem to me to be more pragmatic than anything else.

[involuntary_serf]

It is interesting how those that decried the "politics of fear" during the Bush years are so ready to ignore the same such tactics (albeit over different issues) when used by Obama and the Democrats.

[jimmac]

It is interesting how those that decried the "politics of fear" during the Bush years are so ready to ignore the same such tactics (albeit over different issues) when used by Obama and the Democrats.

Except on the one hand you have the truth ( Obama ) and on the other the desire to be reelected.;)

[Stinkbug]

Raising the alert level before significant events doesn't seem to be politically motivated. Terrorists often pick an anniversary of some event, or some time when their acts can be magnified by the media.

Eve of Y2K, Forth of July, national election, etc, raising the terror alert level for any of these dates would seem to me to be more pragmatic than anything else.

What?
Please name the terror attacks that correspond to your statement.
If there is no evidence of your claim, readers of your post could assume you yourself are a terrorist.

[SDW2001]

What?
Please name the terror attacks that correspond to your statement.
If there is no evidence of your claim, readers of your post could assume you yourself are a terrorist.

What the hell are you talking about? We don't need an actual attack to prove his "claim." Terrorist "chatter" often ramps up before significant dates. That is literally common knowledge.

[Stinkbug]

What the hell are you talking about? We don't need an actual attack to prove his "claim." Terrorist "chatter" often ramps up before significant dates. That is literally common knowledge.

Please name one incident with any kind of official documentation of your claim.

[Taskiss]

Please name one incident with any kind of official documentation of your claim.

You must live under a rock to not have known this -

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_102127.html
In the United States, one analytical concern is that terrorists will strike to mark the scheduled Thursday U.S. execution of Aimal Kasi, a Pakistani man convicted of killing two CIA employees outside agency headquarters in Virginia in 1993.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/01/16/millennium.plot.sentence/
An accomplice to the al Qaeda-trained terrorist who plotted to bomb Los Angeles International Airport around New Year's 2000 was sentenced Wednesday to 24 years in prison.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-184218-100-two-killed-on-25th-anniversary-of-terrorist-pkk.html
A civilian and a police officer have been killed in separate incidents marking the 25th anniversary of the first terrorist attack by the outlawed Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/09/11/911.alert/index.html
The State Department is warning U.S. citizens and employees of an increased possibility of more terrorist attacks coinciding with the second anniversary of the September 11 attacks.
...
The State Department said it is receiving more indications that al Qaeda is preparing to strike U.S. interests overseas. However, a department official said that while there is no credible information of a possible attack, there is a lot of chatter that something is imminent.

[Northgate]

That's because the Bush hatred WAS unhinged.

Wow. Unbelievable considering everything happening lately. :no:


Come on. Anyone that says that just can't be taken seriously.

But yet you want unhinged Obama hatred to be taken seriously.

[Northgate]

All the time? About everything? I thought you said you were wrong about the Democrats.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=1467165&postcount=1

Or is the the Republicans' fault that the Democrats don't know how to govern?

Do you even think before you type or link? In 2004 I WAS A DEMOCRAT who complained loudly about the politicization of the terror alert level. And I was right as were many others.

TODAY I'm a registered Independent. I'm still a liberal who loathes Republican policy.

[FloorJack]

Now that we have the glory of Obama we can leave the man caused disasters in the past.

[Stinkbug]

You must live under a rock to not have known this -

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_102127.html


http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/01/16/millennium.plot.sentence/


http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-184218-100-two-killed-on-25th-anniversary-of-terrorist-pkk.html


http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/09/11/911.alert/index.html

Wow you really know how to pick 'em.

"possibility" ... "chatter" ... all these links tell me that the previous administration was exploiting terror as a PR tool. Why on earth if terror attacks were thwarted, did we have to go and start wars? Yet during these wars terrorist were still plotting and we still need a whole other agency besides the military to deal with terror. Give me a break. You believe health care propaganda as well don't you. You believe Sarah Palin has the power to protect us from the Russian golden Rolls Royces and silver Mercedeses. My rock is wrapped in newspapers.

[Taskiss]

Wow you really know how to pick 'em.

"possibility" ... "chatter" ... all these links tell me that the previous administration was exploiting terror as a PR tool. Why on earth if terror attacks were thwarted, did we have to go and start wars? Yet during these wars terrorist were still plotting and we still need a whole other agency besides the military to deal with terror. Give me a break. You believe health care propaganda as well don't you. You believe Sarah Palin has the power to protect us from the Russian golden Rolls Royces and silver Mercedeses. My rock is wrapped in newspapers.
Ah, so you ask questions when you don't care about the answers.

I got your number, and it's on ignore.

[sammi jo]

You must live under a rock to not have known this -

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_102127.html


http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/01/16/millennium.plot.sentence/


http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/news-184218-100-two-killed-on-25th-anniversary-of-terrorist-pkk.html


http://edition.cnn.com/2003/US/09/11/911.alert/index.html

What is the point of broadcasting "warnings of increased terrorism risks" or "al qaeda chatter" or "heightened security alerts" and the like??

What can the public do about them anyway? I'll tell you what: ABSOLUTELY SQUAT.

These "terror alerts", dutifully broadcast by our compliant, cowardly corporate media, only serve to scare (read terrorize) the public, without the public being able to respond. In other words, the administration and media are terrorizing a captive audience.

These tactics used to be the MO of tincan dictatorships and "banana republics"... Looks like western "democracies" are getting bitten by the same bug.

Crap like this can be made up by anyone, but only disseminated to the masses by those who have access to mass broadcast facilities, such as government/s. Nobody has to even quote credible sources; all they have to do is utter the magic words "national security".. and everyone lays down and takes it in the ass. It works every time.

[Stinkbug]

Ah, so you ask questions when you don't care about the answers.

I got your number, and it's on ignore.

Ignorance is obviously your thing.

[screener]

Ignorance is obviously your thing.
I'll never understand those that use the ignore thing.
Especially this guy, :lol:

[Taskiss]

What is the point of broadcasting "warnings of increased terrorism risks" or "al qaeda chatter" or "heightened security alerts" and the like??CYA. People get blamed if they heard chatter and it didn't get reported.

"Bush KNEW there was going to be an attack"!

We've heard that before... so, CYA, report everything and escalate the threat level.

[Tauron]

I thought this was all common knowledge.

Yep, it is old news to me and many other informed americans.

[sammi jo]

CYA. People get blamed if they heard chatter and it didn't get reported.

Yeah right. Tell that one to David Schippers (Clinton impeachment lawyer) who was warned by FBI agents of "a massive attack in Lower Manhattan" several weeks before it happened. He went public with this information on WRRK (Pittsburgh) saying he had warned (former A.G.) Ashcroft and other DOJ officials, and the agents in question had the exact time, date, place and method of the attack. Not only did he get no response, or brushed off, but the FBI suspended the investigations (!?) and then threatened the agents "with prosecution under the National Security Act if they publicised information pertaining to their investigations". CYA? Go to jail.

[Taskiss]

See? Can't win for losing.

That said, David Schippers is not hitting on all cylinders...

Government Had Prior Knowledge
Iraqi Republican Guard resettled near Oklahoma City
The FBI knows another terrorist attack is being planned, right now, for somewhere in Oklahoma City
The FBI has been, and still is, prohibiting their agents or local police from taking known terrorists into custody.
An Iraqi terrorist cell was involved in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, and is still involved.

[sammi jo]

See? Can't win for losing.

That said, David Schippers is not hitting on all cylinders...

The "Iraqi" connection was more than likely bogus, or a deliberate red herring. The OKC event has never been satisfactorily resolved however. Original news reports compilation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Yqz_SHcXc&feature=related) tend to give a fair assessment of the the story before the editorial filtering process kicks in. (Ignore the standard youtube moronic commentary!)...

;)

[SDW2001]

Wow. Unbelievable considering everything happening lately. :no:




But yet you want unhinged Obama hatred to be taken seriously.

There you have it. You've bought what they're selling. The few crazies are, in your mind, representative of most if not all dislike of the President. I have to hand it to the media and dems on this one. They've tried to invalidate all opposition as racist and/or unhinged.

[SDW2001]

Wow you really know how to pick 'em.

"possibility" ... "chatter" ... all these links tell me that the previous administration was exploiting terror as a PR tool. Why on earth if terror attacks were thwarted, did we have to go and start wars? Yet during these wars terrorist were still plotting and we still need a whole other agency besides the military to deal with terror. Give me a break. You believe health care propaganda as well don't you. You believe Sarah Palin has the power to protect us from the Russian golden Rolls Royces and silver Mercedeses. My rock is wrapped in newspapers.

So basically you'll accept no contrary evidence to your ridiculous position. Any evidence will be dismissed as not authentic. Convenient. I say again: Terrorist chatter tends to increase on anniversaries of other attacks and/or significant dates...whether or not we hear about it. How can you even be disputing this? It's just foolish.

As for the rest of your commentary: No one ever suggested that we would "win" the war in terror with military operations alone. No one. Secondly, what is "healthcare propaganda?" Do you realize that the Democrats control the government, so any "propaganda" would be PRO healthcare. Hello?

I have no idea what your Palin comments mean.

[jimmac]

So basically you'll accept no contrary evidence to your ridiculous position. Any evidence will be dismissed as not authentic. Convenient. I say again: Terrorist chatter tends to increase on anniversaries of other attacks and/or significant dates...whether or not we hear about it. How can you even be disputing this? It's just foolish.

As for the rest of your commentary: No one ever suggested that we would "win" the war in terror with military operations alone. No one. Secondly, what is "healthcare propaganda?" Do you realize that the Democrats control the government, so any "propaganda" would be PRO healthcare. Hello?

I have no idea what your Palin comments mean.

My god! Red alert, Amber alert! And did anything happen?:rolleyes:

And SDW he means that Palin is a scary stupid twit! Thank god she didn't get close to the Presidency!

And please! Trying to compare the Healthcare reform issues to unnecessary terror alerts is a bit of a stretch.

[Northgate]

There you have it. You've bought what they're selling.

Hey, I've learned from the best. :)

[Stinkbug]

My god! Red alert, Amber alert! And did anything happen?:rolleyes:

And SDW he means that Palin is a scary stupid twit! Thank god she didn't get close to the Presidency!

And please! Trying to compare the Healthcare reform issues to unnecessary terror alerts is a bit of a stretch.

McDonalds et al and the current US health care system are far more dangerous and cost far more lives than terror.