Berkeley sure has some stupid people on their City Council

[spaceman_spiff]

This cracks me up. :D :D

<a href="http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/1307113p-1375526c.html" target="_blank">Berkeley approves supplying conscientious objector material</a>

Published 12:45 a.m. PST Wednesday, Dec. 12, 2001
[quote]BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) - Left-leaning Berkeley, already under fire for briefly banning big flags on fire trucks and opposing the bombing of Afghanistan, has voted to lend a hand to would-be conscientious objectors.

The Berkeley City Council voted Tuesday night to supply workers who answer the city's general information phones with material about the Central Committee for Conscientious Objectors.

The idea is to have information available so staff can refer anyone who calls asking about how to avoid military combat.

The measure had been scheduled for a vote Tuesday as part of the consent calendar, items that are passed without debate. But it was postponed for more discussion after Councilwoman Betty Olds said she wanted to see the item amended to include giving staff information about military recruitment for people who called wanting to enlist.

That amendment was rejected.

The proposal came from the city's Peace and Justice Commission, which adopted a resolution earlier this month noting Berkeley's "unique and honored tradition of promoting alternative social values and viewpoints including nonviolence and pacifism." "During this time of military action, especially, we felt it was important that young people, who are of an age to consider enrolling in the military, have the full range of information available to them," said commission member Steve Freedkin.

Freedkin said he doesn't know of any instances where someone has called the city to ask about avoiding the military, but it would be good for city staff to be prepared...<hr></blockquote>

[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>

[Sinewave]

They probably run this site .. <a href="http://www.objector.org/" target="_blank">http://www.objector.org/</a>

:rolleyes:

[flowerbob]

it's a good thing the rest of this stupid country doesn't have the same kind of "stupidity" as we do. because then people might be kind and care about each other. and that would be dreadful :rolleyes:

[spaceman_spiff]

[quote]Originally posted by flowerbob:
<strong>it's a good thing the rest of this stupid country doesn't have the same kind of "stupidity" as we do. because then people might be kind and care about each other. and that would be dreadful :rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>

You still don't understand why this is so abysmally dumb, do you?

[Sinewave]

[quote]Originally posted by flowerbob:
<strong>it's a good thing the rest of this stupid country doesn't have the same kind of "stupidity" as we do. because then people might be kind and care about each other. and that would be dreadful :rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>

:rolleyes: Since when does being pro-protecting our country mean we don't care about people?

[ColorClassicG4]

[quote]Originally posted by flowerbob:
<strong>it's a good thing the rest of this stupid country doesn't have the same kind of "stupidity" as we do. because then people might be kind and care about each other. and that would be dreadful :rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>


Now why doesn't it surprise me that "flowerbob" comes from "where the flowers are"...

[Scott_H]

At the same time they don't provide any information on military recruitment. They voted against that. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>

[BuonRotto]

The only part that seems dumb, or flies against the logic of this whole thing is how they rejected the idea of including military recruitment materials, only allowing the conscientious objector material to be distributed. To me, if they get a lot of flak for not "getting with the program" as far as the rest of the nation is concerned, they don't have a leg to stand on since they themselves limited free speech/expression in that case.

[CommonSense]

Wow, I'm really on the wrong coast . . .

[BuonRotto]

I'm going to make a few assumptions here:

1. CommonSense's post referred to my last one since we're both from New Jersey.

2. CommonSense agrees with the attitude of the Berkeley city council and the conscientious objector organization referred to in the article.

3. CommonSense feels that I do not support this viewpoint.

I would ask that my post be read more carefully. I do not have any problem with the position of the City Council and the Central Committee for Conscientious Objectors.

I do have a problem with limiting the viewpoints of others on either side of the fence in this matter -- that all sides should be heard and be allowed to make their case. Thus, my comment about not allowing other contrary material to be distributed:

[quote]"…Councilwoman Betty Olds said she wanted to see the item amended to include giving staff information about military recruitment for people who called wanting to enlist. That amendment was rejected."<hr></blockquote>

Does this make my position clearer? I feel they've deliberately blocked another viewpoint from being heard. Bad thing. Even on my other rants in other threads about other people's perspectives, I've never tried to deny their ability to get their opinions out. I've simply ripped them a new one.

Sorry to pick on CommonSense, but I'm trying to not only restate my view but also why I've restated my view.

[Sinewave]

[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>Does this make my position clearer? I feel they've deliberately blocked another viewpoint from being heard. Bad thing. Even on my other rants in other threads about other people's perspectives, I've never tried to deny their ability to get their opinions out. I've simply ripped them a new one.

Sorry to pick on CommonSense, but I'm trying to not only restate my view but also why I've restated my view.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's called being tolerant .. to only views you support.

[Xool]

As a Berkeley resident and Cal grad I would say that while I support the city council for providing information about conscientious objectors, it appalls me that they won't provide recruitment information.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not running down to sign up and be shipped off to die, but if someone wants to, I think the city should be supportive.

This reminds me of the time I was going grocery shopping and on my way in a City Councilwoman was asking for signatures in support of some measure or another. I stopped to chat but quickly changed the conversation to another issue, regarding redistricting the city to give students (who comprise at least 25% of Berkeley's population) a majority in one of Berkeley's seven districts. This would also lead to giving the students a voice on the City Council. Needless to say she wasn't very eager to help me on that issue.

While Berkeley's city council seems to have their own ideas and agendas sometimes, the city itself is still great and laid back. I love how relaxed and diverse it is...

Now if only the city would get a bunch of communal Segway scooters...

[ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: Xool ]</p>

[NoahJ]

Umm, forget it, I just read a couple of CommonSense's other posts and I feel he should change his name... CommonSense indeed... <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

[ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</p>

[spaceman_spiff]

[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:

<strong>The only part that seems dumb, or flies against the logic of this whole thing is how they rejected the idea of including military recruitment materials...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Nope, try again.

[Sinewave]

[quote]Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
<strong>

Nope, try again.</strong><hr></blockquote>

:???: Are you disagreeing with him.. if so please explain.

[nonhuman]

[quote]The proposal came from the city's Peace and Justice Commission, which adopted a resolution earlier this month noting Berkeley's "unique and honored tradition of promoting alternative social values and viewpoints including nonviolence and pacifism." "During this time of military action, especially, we felt it was important that young people, who are of an age to consider enrolling in the military, have the full range of information available to them," said commission member Steve Freedkin.<hr></blockquote>

I like how we now officially have an "alternative" culture. Officially alternative... hmmm :rolleyes:

[Artman @_@]

Flowerbob's desktop...

http://www.macworld.com/2001/04/17/images/picture1.jpg

Like, peace dude... <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[BRussell]

[quote]Originally posted by Sinewave:
<strong>quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by roger_ramjet:

Nope, try again.
----------------------------------------------------------------

:???: Are you disagreeing with him.. if so please explain.</strong><hr></blockquote>Maybe he's referring to the fact that there is no draft, so it doesn't make sense to be a conscientious objector. Just don't enlist.

[Sinewave]

[quote]Originally posted by BRussell:
<strong>Maybe he's referring to the fact that there is no draft, so it doesn't make sense to be a conscientious objector. Just don't enlist.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Now that I would agree with.

[CommonSense]

[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>I'm going to make a few assumptions here:

1. CommonSense's post referred to my last one since we're both from New Jersey.

2. CommonSense agrees with the attitude of the Berkeley city council and the conscientious objector organization referred to in the article.

3. CommonSense feels that I do not support this viewpoint.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, I was replying to the first post, not yours.

I think it's perfectly justifiable that the City Council isn't offering information on enlisting in the military. The reason is because there is a very clear, recognizable governmental authority in place for people to go to if they want to find out about joining the military. There's are thousands of recruiting centers across the country, and the average person knows they exist, and knows that it's the place to go if you want to throw your life away -- er, join the military.

There's no corresponding structure in place for people to learn about being a conscientious objector. Berkeley doesn't need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to offering military information, but they definitely *are* offering a new service by providing a "one-stop" place to find out about being a CO.

I hope that makes *my* position more clear.

Sheesh.

[AirSluf]

[spaceman_spiff]

[quote]Originally posted by BRussell:

<strong>Maybe he's referring to the fact that there is no draft, so it doesn't make sense to be a conscientious objector. Just don't enlist.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bingo.

[spaceman_spiff]

[quote]Originally posted by CommonSense:
<strong>
I hope that makes *my* position more clear.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

You sure did. Still dumb, though.

[ 12-16-2001: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>

[Scott_H]

More fuel for the "Boycott Berkeley" cause.

[flowerbob]

[quote]Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
You still don't understand why this is so abysmally dumb, do you?<hr></blockquote>
i do, don't worry. just having a little fun :D
[quote]Originally posted by Sinewave:
:rolleyes: Since when does being pro-protecting our country mean we don't care about people?<hr></blockquote>
since bush defined "protecting your country"
[quote]Originally posted by ColorClassicG4:
Now why doesn't it surprise me that "flowerbob" comes from "where the flowers are"...<hr></blockquote>
everybody's got to have a little consistency, don't you think? ;)
[quote]Originally posted by Xool:
While Berkeley's city council seems to have their own ideas and agendas sometimes...<hr></blockquote>
[quote]Originally posted by nonhuman:
I like how we now officially have an "alternative" culture. Officially alternative... hmmm :rolleyes:<hr></blockquote>
[quote]Originally posted by AirSluf:
Bezerkley is just plain nuts.<hr></blockquote>
yup, they're a bunch of complete kooks. but why shouldn't i laugh at/disparage/dislike the people who get mad about them as much as i do them? :)
[quote]Originally posted by Artman @_@:
Flowerbob's desktop...
http://www.macworld.com/2001/04/17/images/picture1.jpg
Like, peace dude... :chill: <hr></blockquote>
LOL. it's lsd fiends like jobs who give the rest of us bad names ;)

[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
More fuel for the "Boycott Berkeley" cause.<hr></blockquote>
is this some official movement? :confused:
you silly demented conservatives. but don't worry, even though we hate you, we still love you :p

[BuonRotto]

Oh, you *think* you're sooooo progressive, eh, flowerbob?! Well then, explain to all of us why you have OS 9 on your desktop! Hmm?! Mr. I'm-so-progressive-I-can't-stand-myself hasn't even upgraded to OS X yet! I bet you're a closet Rush Limbaugh fan too. I got your number. You are sooooo busted!

;) :D

[Scott_H]

[quote]Originally posted by flowerbob:
<strong>
is this some official movement? :confused:
you silly demented conservatives. but don't worry, even though we hate you, we still love you :p </strong><hr></blockquote>

Nope. It's real. Maybe it lost some steam but I'm sure if Berkeley keeps it up it will be. Two can play at the "boycott" game. Or is it only allowed from the left?

[CommonSense]

[quote]Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
<strong>

You sure did. Still dumb, though.

[ 12-16-2001: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks. I'll take that as an "I don't know what the hell to respond with, but I have to say SOMETHING . . . "

[spaceman_spiff]

[quote]Originally posted by CommonSense:
<strong>
Thanks. I'll take that as an "I don't know what the hell to respond with, but I have to say SOMETHING . . . "</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, I just didn't feel like wasting any more electrons by responding further. I thought I was simply underlining the silliness of your post:

[quote]... I think it's perfectly justifiable that the City Council isn't offering information on enlisting in the military. The reason is because there is a very clear, recognizable governmental authority in place for people to go to if they want to find out about joining the military. There's are thousands of recruiting centers across the country, and the average person knows they exist, and knows that it's the place to go if you want to throw your life away -- er, join the military.

There's no corresponding structure in place for people to learn about being a conscientious objector. Berkeley doesn't need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to offering military information, but they definitely *are* offering a new service by providing a "one-stop" place to find out about being a CO....<hr></blockquote>

There's a reason why there's no corresponding structure in place to learn about being a CO. It isn't needed. The Berkeley City Council ISN'T offering a new service. There isn't a single soul in the entire city who has been served with a draft notice and who needs to know how to respond. Nor will there be. The Berkeley City Council isn't offering a new service to their constituents. They've merely cobbled together a rickety soapbox. Imagine that. Soapboxes aren't even that hard to build and they couldn't even get that right.

Like I said: dumb.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>

[Moogs]

Ah, Berkley...an amazing place...possibly the largest concentration of high IQ's on earth, with the absolute lowest concentration of common sense. A living, breathing paradox...in Birkenstocks. Far out, man. Anyone like some Bong water with their pine nut sandwich?


Hey Artman, nice visuals! *lol*

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Moogs ™ ]</p>

[Artman @_@]

[quote]Originally posted by Moogs ™:
<strong>Ah, Berkley...an amazing place...possibly the largest concentration of high IQ's on earth, with the absolute lowest concentration of common sense. A living, breathing paradox...in Birkenstocks. Far out, man. Anyone like some Bong water with their pine nut sandwich?</strong><hr></blockquote>

LOL! Oh rapture...hilarious.

[quote]<strong>Hey Artman, nice visuals! *lol*
</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's a screen capture of the default desktop picture of the Flower Power iMac (follow the link)...'course Flowerbob kept his on there... :D

[flowerbob]

[quote]Originally posted by Artman @_@:
<strong>
That's a screen capture of the default desktop picture of the Flower Power iMac (follow the link)...'course Flowerbob kept his on there... :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

just to set the record straight, my initial response when i first saw a picture of that imac, was
"OMFG! apple has just released the butt-ugliest computer ever made!"
and i nearly vomited all over the keyboard of this lovely PM, running Mac OS X :chill:

[Moogs]

Suurrre Bob...we believe you. I wonder if tulip-themed iPods are next.
;)