U.S. Army adopts Apple for new video surveillance

[AppleInsider]

For security, ease of use and features, the U.S. Army has reportedly turned to Apple hardware for four new video surveillance installations.

According to Security Systems News, the Army now has four video surveillance installations based on Mac OS X and Apple servers. Pat Mercer, security business leader/sales manager with Siemens, said the IT department was initially reluctant to go Mac, but as they explored the systems, it became clear it was the best and most secure option.

"When you ask them what their requirements are, they say, 'Low bandwidth, and I need to make sure nothing is going to hack into my network via your system,' Mercer said. "That’s where the Mac conversation begins. The viruses, hacking, all of those things are dramatically minimized with Apple and it eliminates a lot of those challenges."

Chris Gettings, CEO and president of VideoNEXT, said the Mac offers security that Windows cannot, and a user interface far superior to Red Hat Linux.

"It just runs," Gettings said. "You’re not going to have some of the memory-leak issues that seem to plague different versions of the Windows systems. And mission-critical customers appreciate that."

He said he particularly appreciates the consistency found in Apple hardware. When ordering identical servers from Dell two weeks apart, Gettings said he discovered that a chip on the motherboard had been changed. But with Apple, he said, he doesn't need to worry about issues like that. The streamlined hardware also allows him to create a more efficient system.

"He can put as many as 60 cameras on one Apple server that, according the specifications, has the same performance abilities as a Dell or HP server that can only serve 50 cameras," the report said.

The news isn't the first report of the U.S. Army embracing the Apple platform. In 2007, the military branch stepped up its Mac orders to thwart hacking attempts. The Army began shifting away from a Windows-only environment in 2005, when General Steve Boutelle warned that a homogenous operating system environment could expose a computer system to large-scale hacking attempts.

The Army has also used Apple hardware in the field, adopting custom iPods to be used as field translators in Iraq. The U.S. Army's 10th Mountain Division reportedly used iPods and iPod nanos modified to run a special application from Vcom 3D known as Vcommunicator Mobile. The system allows soldiers to choose words or phrases to broadcast out of an attached speaker and communicate with locals.

[lkrupp]

"When you ask them what their requirements are, they say, 'Low bandwidth, and I need to make sure nothing is going to hack into my network via your system,' Mercer said. "That’s where the Mac conversation begins. The viruses, hacking, all of those things are dramatically minimized with Apple and it eliminates a lot of those challenges."

Ooooooo!. Charlie Miller is gonna have a cow over this one.:lol:

[digitalclips]

"That’s where the Mac conversation begins. The viruses, hacking, all of those things are dramatically minimized with Apple and it eliminates a lot of those challenges."

Were they reluctant to say dropped to zero?

[Quadra 610]

"That’s where the Mac conversation begins. The viruses, hacking, all of those things are dramatically minimized with Apple and it eliminates a lot of those challenges."

Were they reluctant to say dropped to zero?

Meh, I assume it isn't good practice to speak of absolutes in the public/poltical/military sphere.

At least not after "Mission Accomplished." ;)

[kresh]

heh, The report fails to mention where the surveillance cameras are installed. Are they watching us or them :)

[spinnerlys]

heh, The report fails to mention where the surveillance cameras are installed. Are they watching us or them :)

They are installed in front of you.

And iChat Server SE (surveillance edition) is used to record every iSight they can get their hands on.

[SpamSandwich]

And yet, getting a simple videoconference up and running using an iSight external camera remains an ordeal. The whole process is still unnecessarily complicated.

[spoonyfork]

No "no military use" clauses in license agreements bundled with OSX? :???:

[VinitaBoy]

"At least not after "Mission Accomplished."

Yeah, at least not after "unemployment will not rise above 8%"!

[success]

Does this mean we're closer to getting iChat [video] on the iPhone? Oh wait...it doesn't have a camera behind the display.

:no:

[jimerl]

WOW, does this guy work for apple or did he just get some overexposure to the RDF™ simultaneously draining steve's powers? it explains his recent illness.
"It just runs," Gettings said.

someone get him a cue card. the line is, "It just works."
The Army began shifting away from a Windows-only environment in 2005, when General Steve Boutelle warned that a homogenous operating system environment could expose a computer system to large-scale hacking attempts.

that and 'cuz the navy had a ship dead in the water that needed to be rebooted! remember that one kids? that was hilarious. i think it was the lexington running nt.

[buceta]

Yet another one realizes the obvious: that macs are leaps and bounds beyond windows PCs.

If the Army can figure this one out anybody should be able to as well. Unfortunately, there are those even more dim-witted than the Army.

[ipodrulz]

I hope the Army doesn't let their guard down and not put any protection of for the Macs... every system is hackable.

[sheff]

Want to kill some terrorists? There's an app for that.

iKill, only on an iPhone.

[MacShack]

Want to kill some terrorists? There's an app for that.

iKill, only on an iPhone.

Lol. This is good news. The more Apple computers are used in these protection hungry enviroments the more it can prove. That it isn't safer because it less used or not really used in highly secured setups. But it is safer because of it's architecture. Let the hacking begin!

[Wiggin]

No "no military use" clauses in license agreements bundled with OSX? :???:

Of course, it could just be for something as mundane as building or facility security. Just like any other business has to protect their property. After all, you don't want anyone breaking into a warehouse and stealing hammers at $800 apiece!

(In other words, just because the military is using it doesn't automatically mean it's being used for unethical purposes. Or should everyone be required to pass some ethics test before being allowed to purchase Apple products?)

[danielchow]

I hope the Army doesn't let their guard down and not put any protection of for the Macs... every system is hackable.


DITTO.

i've been using mac since its introduction, and i've not encountered a mac software virus, BUT i still would not let my guard down.

never say "never" because, as ipodrulz said, "every system is hackable", but to some degree - some requiring intelligence. thus far, i think Charlie Miller has been the only one intelligent enough to publicly demonstrate this. i'm convince that all others are not as intelligent and perhaps as ethical (is he? i don't know) as he is. anything Windows is just a mindless plaything to people like Miller, however to the others, it taxes their brains.

[htoelle]

:Dheh, The report fails to mention where the surveillance cameras are installed. Are they watching us or them :)

I have it on reasonable authority that system is helping to protect a whole mess of Dell servers.
HT

[MacTel]

I'm curious if they are using XServe or Mac Pros. The XServe doesn't get much press.

[mstone]

i've been using mac since its introduction, and i've not encountered a mac software virus, BUT i still would not let my guard down.

You either have not been using Macs since the beginning, never shared any disks or didn't realize that the goofy clown who popped up and deleted all your files was a virus. There were tons of Mac viruses before OS X. Are you kidding me?

[mstone]

I'm curious if they are using XServe or Mac Pros. The XServe doesn't get much press.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. I guess you don't need card slots anymore for that even to manipulate the cameras. All usb or ethernet I think.

[echosonic]

Unfortunately, there are those even more dim-witted than the Army.

Like who, you?

Because only a dimwit would make a statement like that.

[danielchow]

You either have not been using Macs since the beginning, never shared any disks or didn't realize that the goofy clown who popped up and deleted all your files was a virus. There were tons of Mac viruses before OS X. Are you kidding me?

Of course I'm not kidding. I've not encountered any software virus on a Mac because I've always subscribe to the practice of "never say 'never'." I was always mindful of handling of e-mail attachments, visiting sites and downloading "free" software, and so on. It's simple common-sense computer usage. On the other hand, software virus distribution is sneaky, so if I let my guard down I might get a computer cootie. It can happen to anyone. (So, that goofy clown was several tons?)

[ljocampo]

heh, The report fails to mention where the surveillance cameras are installed. Are they watching us or them :)

Nah... It's them not me. That's where I put the Post It note. I keep the iSight covered with it so the NSA can't see what color underwear I'm using on any particular day. I've been doing that ever since the Patriot Act.

[echosonic]

Of course I'm not kidding. I've not encountered any software virus on a Mac because I've always subscribe to the practice of "never say 'never'." I was always mindful of handling of e-mail attachments, visiting sites and downloading "free" software, and so on. It's simple common-sense computer usage. (So, that goofy clown was several tons?)

I wasn't mindful. not in the least. I've still never encountered a virus on a Mac. For the record, I switch to Macs three months before they dropped OSX.

[Chris_CA]

No "no military use" clauses in license agreements bundled with OSX? :???:
No.
The standard OS license is geared towards personal/educational/commercial use.
But even if there were something in the license directed at military use, I imagine that the military is working directly with Apple on the systems solution and (if needed) a specific license would be developed allowing it.

[echosonic]

Nah... It's them not me. That's where I put the Post It note. I keep the iSight covered with it so the NSA can't see what color underwear I'm using on any particular day. I've been doing that ever since the Patriot Act.

Must be some pretty compelling underwear. Whatcha gonna do when Bama expands the Patriot Act? Heh heh...

[bokuwaomar]

I hope the Army doesn't let their guard down and not put any protection of for the Macs... every system is hackable.

Yes, but some systems are more hackable than others. Compare the number of times a Windows based web server has been hacked to a *nix one. In fact, didn't someone deface one of Microsoft's websites a few years ago?

[Chris_CA]

There were tons of Mac viruses before OS X. Are you kidding me?
Tons?
The total number of actual virii is less than 30 for ALL Mac OS versions.

[majortom1981]

They must not have done their homework . HP has systems that have the same processors in them as the mac servers do with linux.

My z600 is capable of 2 xeon 5590s with 24 gigs of ram .

The g6 configured off government contract is about $1000 - $2000 cheaper then a similarly configured xserve from apple.

Did apple thrown in more money then what is listed on their website?

[Chris_CA]

They must not have done their homework . HP has systems that have the same processors in them as the mac servers do with linux.

My z600 is capable of 2 xeon 5590s with 24 gigs of ram .
And?
What does this have to do with this story?

[JeffDM]

They are installed in front of you.

And iChat Server SE (surveillance edition) is used to record every iSight they can get their hands on.

Finally, a use for iSight.

No "no military use" clauses in license agreements bundled with OSX? :???:

Probably just a "cover your ass" kind of line to cover liabilities, especially if someone's kid might die in a mishap. I'm not masochistic enough to go through a EULA just for a post, there maybe something prohibiting it from being used in weapon systems, not general IT.

They must not have done their homework . HP has systems that have the same processors in them as the mac servers do with linux.

My z600 is capable of 2 xeon 5590s with 24 gigs of ram .

The g6 configured off government contract is about $1000 - $2000 cheaper then a similarly configured xserve from apple.

Did apple thrown in more money then what is listed on their website?

HP does seem to make pretty nice workstations (mine are not current, a few years old), but hardware is just one piece of the puzzle, the same goes for the cost of the hardware. The cost of hardware is low compared to the cost of the people that support and use the hardware.

[wizard69]

........

(In other words, just because the military is using it doesn't automatically mean it's being used for unethical purposes. Or should everyone be required to pass some ethics test before being allowed to purchase Apple products?)

It is amazing sometimes the extent of the bleeding hearts in this forum, there is absolutely nothing wrong or unethical with killing the enemy. Sometimes the most efficent way to do that is messy, sometimes invisible to the general population in the end the only important thing is that they die wholesale.

It's all about evolution, just as in biology societies evolve in ways both positive and negative. Those societies that are non functional and dangerous either wither away on their own or must be destroyed from the outside. It is an unfortunate reality but if you want your own culture to grow and sustain itself you have to remove all threats to it. The American people are slowly learning this and hopefully soon the full wieght and power of the military can be applied to the trouble spots in the world.


Dave

[majortom1981]

And?
What does this have to do with this story?

The story states (you should read it) that the apple hardware was faster then the hp hardware. This makes no sense because the hp hardware uses the same processors and chipsets that the apple hardware does and it cheaper. With the severe discounts that hp gives to government agencies i dont see why they went the apple route (i work for a state agency so i know the prices).

Yes for things like graphic design and non techies apple is great but when it comes to tax payer money why get an apple when an hp with the same specs is cheaper? (i am talking an hp with linux not windows).

[JeffDM]

It is amazing sometimes the extent of the bleeding hearts in this forum, there is absolutely nothing wrong or unethical with killing the enemy. Sometimes the most efficent way to do that is messy, sometimes invisible to the general population in the end the only important thing is that they die wholesale.

It's all about evolution, just as in biology societies evolve in ways both positive and negative. Those societies that are non functional and dangerous either wither away on their own or must be destroyed from the outside. It is an unfortunate reality but if you want your own culture to grow and sustain itself you have to remove all threats to it. The American people are slowly learning this and hopefully soon the full wieght and power of the military can be applied to the trouble spots in the world.


It goes both ways. There is also a certain level of naivete in the neocon assumption that centuries and millennia old ethnic conflicts can be solved in a few months with the right firepower.

[mstone]

Tons?
The total number of actual virii is less than 30 for ALL Mac OS versions.

Maybe, I never counted them, but back in the 80's and 90's while working in film output services, we would routinely discover 30 or so a week. Mostly variants of WDEF, MDEF, CDEF etc. All detected by Norton but few could be quarantined or repaired. It was a major problem until OS X. Plus there was the whole Macro virus epidemic for MS Office that came later. It seemed like a lot worse of a problem at the time than you make it out to be. Were you in elementary school at that time?

[Chris_CA]

Maybe, I never counted them,
Others have counted them.
I guess if you count the Office macro debacle as multiple instances, then okay, there were less than 30 plus the tens of thousands of macro virii.
but back in the 80's and 90's while working in film output services, we would routinely discover 30 or so a week
And the IT guy kept his job? Sounds like you were not taking even basic precautions.
Were you in elementary school at that time?
No, why?

[spoonyfork]

... there is absolutely nothing wrong or unethical with killing the enemy.
There absolutely is something unethical with killing the enemy! I can't make nearly as much money off a dead enemy as I can with an alive one. As a free market capitalist cum "bleeding heart" liberal I would rather the opportunity to make a lot of money off of my enemy rather than kill them. The commodification of discontent is quite profitable and has a very long tail. Killing one's enemy is very anti-free market and anti-capitalist. Bad American, bad! :no:

[echosonic]

It is amazing sometimes the extent of the bleeding hearts in this forum, there is absolutely nothing wrong or unethical with killing the enemy. Sometimes the most efficent way to do that is messy, sometimes invisible to the general population in the end the only important thing is that they die wholesale.

It's all about evolution, just as in biology societies evolve in ways both positive and negative. Those societies that are non functional and dangerous either wither away on their own or must be destroyed from the outside. It is an unfortunate reality but if you want your own culture to grow and sustain itself you have to remove all threats to it. The American people are slowly learning this and hopefully soon the full wieght and power of the military can be applied to the trouble spots in the world.


Dave

Hear, Hear. And hopefully, Apple products will help to do that with utmost expediency and efficiency. I do own stock, after all.

[echosonic]

It goes both ways. There is also a certain level of naivete in the neocon assumption that centuries and millennia old ethnic conflicts can be solved in a few months with the right firepower.

It may go both ways, but its going more one way than the other, especially when a Global Moderator begins making blanket "neocon" assumptions/accusations.

[bartfat]

So who's saying that Windows PCs are a better choice for mission critical computers now?

[Neil Anderson]

There were tons of Mac viruses before OS X. Are you kidding me?

Yeah, if you mean 60-80 were tons. http://www.clamxav.com/

[mstone]

It's all about evolution, just as in biology societies evolve in ways both positive and negative. Those societies that are non functional and dangerous either wither away on their own or must be destroyed from the outside. It is an unfortunate reality but if you want your own culture to grow and sustain itself you have to remove all threats to it. The American people are slowly learning this and hopefully soon the full wieght and power of the military can be applied to the trouble spots in the world.


If the US were to leave foreign countries, those people would be much less likely to venture here to the US and attack us than they would be in just continue fighting amongst themselves.

I think we (US) should act much more like 'biology societies' and simply defend our country at our borders. As it is now, the government has no control of our borders. This is substantially due to student visas that were encouraged for years so that our universities could profit from foreign student tuition. Now there are so many loopholes in the student visa and work visa system that we will never fix it. One person gets in and immediately summons all their relatives to come live here too. This is entirely separate from the other immigration policies and issues regarding VietNam, China and Mexico, and so called British colonies, etc. Anyone who claims persecution or hardship in their own country can just come live with us and the taxpayer will foot the bill.

If it were possible I would like to see them all go back home, but now that they have their US born children and families we can't break them up and deport half of an illegal family, now can we?

[mstone]

And the IT guy kept his job? Sounds like you were not taking even basic precautions.


You don't quite understand how the film output business worked do you?

You see, hundreds of different designers would bring in floppies, zips, optical drives & syquests, and we would output their files for them. We had virus protection, they often did not.

[ljocampo]

Must be some pretty compelling underwear. Whatcha gonna do when Bama expands the Patriot Act? Heh heh...

Vote Republican in 2010 & 2012! I'm an Independent who votes his conscience. But not in my underwear. I save that thrill for the forums.

[JeffDM]

It may go both ways, but its going more one way than the other, especially when a Global Moderator begins making blanket "neocon" assumptions/accusations.

You're defending someone that used "bleeding hearts"? Not is that a blanket assumption or accusation, that is generally a phrase used by neocons, and not many others.

Just to be clear, I wasn't intending to call Wizard a neocon. But if people want to get political, then they should understand what they're getting into, if you're going to fling, you shouldn't complain when you get flung on. Which I'd say is an excellent demonstration of the same kind of core problem.

Much of the recent global intervention is in large part to make up for the mistakes in intervention decades previous, we were so focused on the problem at hand that it caused problem for the future. The blame can justifiably be spread pretty wide and across political aisles. The US will be paying for mistakes in the current intervention decades from now. You might say that we're still dealing with the ghosts of conflicts from a century ago. The more people understand this and actually try to do something to stop the cycle rather than follow the same old play book, the better off we will be.

[mstone]

Yeah, if you mean 60-80 were tons. http://www.clamxav.com/

You're just going to send me to a home page? Where's the page with your data?

I guess Norton was just goofing around when they would send us new definitions every week with thousands of new defs.
I found this document that goes into some detail :

http://stason.org/TULARC/os-macintosh/computer-viruses/7-1-Mac-specific-system-and-file-infectors-Viruses-and-the.html

[Avonord]

Didn't Microsoft create a special hardened version of Windows and subsequently received some kind of special certification from the US army to have it installed on army computers? Or am I confused with another news story a year ago? It's interesting the OSX doesn't need to go through the same certification process..

[Chris_CA]

The story states (you should read it) that the apple hardware was faster then the hp hardware.
I did read it. No where does it state anything about being "faster".
It does say,
"He can put as many as 60 cameras on one Apple server that, according the specifications, has the same performance abilities as a Dell or HP server that can only serve 50 cameras," the report said.
Also, hardware is only part of the equation.

[Bageljoey]

You're defending someone that used "bleeding hearts"? That is generally a phrase used by neocons, and not many others.

Just to be clear, I wasn't intending to call Wizard a neocon. But if people want to get political, then they should understand what they're getting into.

Absoutely right.

But still, as it is, much of the recent global intervention is in large part to make up for the mistakes in intervention decades previous, we were so focused on the problem at hand that it caused problem for the future. The blame can justifiably be spread pretty wide and across political aisles. The US will be paying for mistakes in the current intervention decades from now. You might say that we're still dealing with the ghosts of conflicts from a century ago. The more people understand this and actually try to do something to stop the cycle rather than follow the same old play book, the better off we will be.

This is where you get into difficutly. Your philosophy is way to muddled and complicated. Try this:
US=good
THEM=evil

See? Much simpler.
Feel free to substitute appropriate other words when needed (right, blessed and worthy of life VS wrong, unloved by God and OK to kill)

[lantzn]

You don't quite understand how the film output business worked do you?

You see, hundreds of different designers would bring in floppies, zips, optical drives & syquests, and we would output their files for them. We had virus protection, they often did not.

I remember those days (1986). Were you a Service Bureau? We took out media to our local bureau to obtain our negatives for burning our press plates. We used a free AV app on those early Macs. I never did find a virus on any of my Macs and have been using them since.

[echosonic]

You're defending someone that used "bleeding hearts"? Not is that a blanket assumption or accusation, that is generally a phrase used by neocons, and not many others.

Just to be clear, I wasn't intending to call Wizard a neocon. But if people want to get political, then they should understand what they're getting into, if you're going to fling, you shouldn't complain when you get flung on. Which I'd say is an excellent demonstration of the same kind of core problem.

Much of the recent global intervention is in large part to make up for the mistakes in intervention decades previous, we were so focused on the problem at hand that it caused problem for the future. The blame can justifiably be spread pretty wide and across political aisles. The US will be paying for mistakes in the current intervention decades from now. You might say that we're still dealing with the ghosts of conflicts from a century ago. The more people understand this and actually try to do something to stop the cycle rather than follow the same old play book, the better off we will be.

I understand what your point is...and I didn't think that you were calling Wizard a Neocon...but if these words (Neocon, being rather new and highly controversial) begin coming from Moderators, then they will imply a certain level of bias on the part of AI (which is perfectly apolitical in my rose-colored view) and alienate readers.

[echosonic]

Absoutely right.


This is where you get into difficutly. Your philosophy is way to muddled and complicated. Try this:
US=good
THEM=evil

See? Much simpler.
Feel free to substitute appropriate other words when needed (right, blessed and worthy of life VS wrong, unloved by God and OK to kill)

Oh no, he was exactly right. It was our fault, and has always been our fault, and we deserve what comes to our shores. We need to understand them, and empathize with them, and apologize to them for all of the terrible wrongs we've committed. we need to appease them, and hope they will forgive us.

Then we need to begin censoring the things we say so as not to offend them.

And while we're at it, maybe we should do a little more censoring so that we don't offend any of them who may be here visiting our evil country.

[JeffDM]

I understand what your point is...and I didn't think that you were calling Wizard a Neocon...but if these words (Neocon, being rather new and highly controversial) begin coming from Moderators, then they will imply a certain level of bias on the part of AI (which is perfectly apolitical in my rose-colored view) and alienate readers.

First, the idea is decades old. If that's your idea of rather new, then fair enough.

But I understand your concerns. I will try to stay out of political discussion. I generally try to put a stop to it, but it's not going to stop when linked to a story like this.

[Maximara]

"That’s where the Mac conversation begins. The viruses, hacking, all of those things are dramatically minimized with Apple and it eliminates a lot of those challenges."

Were they reluctant to say dropped to zero?

Because as was the case Cliff Stoll found out years ago a system is only as good as the person managing it. People will do things that are silly that will compromise any account that is connected to the web.

[mstone]

I remember those days (1986). Were you a Service Bureau? We took out media to our local bureau to obtain our negatives for burning our press plates. We used a free AV app on those early Macs. I never did find a virus on any of my Macs and have been using them since.

Disinfectant. But it did not detect lots of different attacks such as worms, trojans, virus inside of compressed files or Word Macros. Since you were only sending files to the service bureau made it much more unlikely that you would receive a virus from them. On the other hand when we received files from a broad range of diverse and mostly technically non- savvy artists, there were many viruses floating around.

[bugginout711]

so all will be fine and dandy till someone decides to log into a guest account, and therefore subsequently loses all of the main users data on the mac, resulting in the loss of video footage of national security lol. and dont rely on those time machines either, those have an apparent death date of 18 months. this is really something they need to reconsider.

[Rot'nApple]

Meh, I assume it isn't good practice to speak of absolutes in the public/poltical/military sphere.

At least not after "Mission Accomplished." ;)

"Mission Accomplished is sooooo last Administration, dude. You need to keep up with the times... it's now Obama's phrase "Pass my stimulus plan and unemployment won't go above 8%"!

""Well, I think the stimulus so far has been unsuccessful in achieving the goals the president set out for it," Cornyn said. "[Obama] said, with the stimulus, we'd seen 8 percent -- no higher than 8 percent unemployment. And we now see, with 60 percent of the stimulus unspent, that that has not been successful. We're going to see unemployment over 10 percent.""

http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=8748588&pid=4380645

[Maximara]

You're just going to send me to a home page? Where's the page with your data?

I guess Norton was just goofing around when they would send us new definitions every week with thousands of new defs.
I found this document that goes into some detail :

http://stason.org/TULARC/os-macintosh/computer-viruses/7-1-Mac-specific-system-and-file-infectors-Viruses-and-the.html

If you bothered to actually read that list (what a novel idea :lol:) you would have found some don't spread under multifinder and other 'aren't known to be in circulation'.

As for Norton those "thousands of new defs" those were for Windows viruses or platform independent Macro viruses that Disinfectant couldn't handle.

[Maximara]

"Mission Accomplished is sooooo last Administration, dude. You need to keep up with the times... it's now Obama's phrase "Pass my stimulus plan and unemployment won't go above 8%"!

""Well, I think the stimulus so far has been unsuccessful in achieving the goals the president set out for it," Cornyn said. "[Obama] said, with the stimulus, we'd seen 8 percent -- no higher than 8 percent unemployment. And we now see, with 60 percent of the stimulus unspent, that that has not been successful. We're going to see unemployment over 10 percent.""

http://abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=8748588&pid=4380645

Considering a paltry fraction of the stimulus went out and the stumbling bumbling way many states have handled it I find it hard to criticize Obama for the actions of other. Remember how in April of 2009 the GOP in Florida turned down the stimulus money? The failure of the stimulus is like that across the board--the GOP want to block or delay it so they can say ''see it didn't work' BS that they believe the American public are brain dead stupid enough to believe in.

[NasserAE]

I was surprise that the DOD uses commercial OS. You would think that with their huge budget and resources they would develop their own in house variation of Linux. I've seen in the news that China does use their own OS.

[brucep]

Finally, a use for iSight.



Probably just a "cover your ass" kind of line to cover liabilities, especially if someone's kid might die in a mishap. I'm not masochistic enough to go through a EULA just for a post, there maybe something prohibiting it from being used in weapon systems, not general IT.



HP does seem to make pretty nice workstations (mine are not current, a few years old), but hardware is just one piece of the puzzle, the same goes for the cost of the hardware. The cost of hardware is low compared to the cost of the people that support and use the hardware.

How does apple workstations compare to hp workstations ??

[daniel84]

You're just going to send me to a home page? Where's the page with your data?

To be fair, the data he quoted is on the homepage. Didn't you read it?

[samanjj]

Oh no, he was exactly right. It was our fault, and has always been our fault, and we deserve what comes to our shores. We need to understand them, and empathize with them, and apologize to them for all of the terrible wrongs we've committed. we need to appease them, and hope they will forgive us.

Then we need to begin censoring the things we say so as not to offend them.

And while we're at it, maybe we should do a little more censoring so that we don't offend any of them who may be here visiting our evil country.

Get real mate. Hawaii, Philippines, Puerto Rico, Iran, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Central America, Cuba - These are some of the places that the US has either invaded or had military involvement in in the last 150 years or so. Most of them for US interests at the cost of the local populace. Just because some groups are sick of it and fighting back you give some lame sarcastic response.

The US is not the only country to do this but you know what, it doesn't absolve the US for their actions either. And you know what - you should censor yourself because your ignorance of history offends me.

[Chris_CA]

I was surprise that the DOD uses commercial OS.
Really? You think that the "DoD" would write one OS for everything from stapling papers to flying into space? Especailly when there are plenty of off the shelf solutions?
Apple uses Windows and Microsoft uses Mac OS X for certain things.
The DoD uses dozens of OSs, depending on the application it is being used for.
I've seen in the news that China does use their own OS.
Only one OS in all of China's {military}?

[NasserAE]

Really? You think that the "DoD" would write one OS for everything from stapling papers to flying into space? Especailly when there are plenty of off the shelf solutions?
Apple uses Windows and Microsoft uses Mac OS X for certain things.
The DoD uses dozens of OSs, depending on the application it is being used for.

Only one OS in all of China's {military}?

What's the problem if you can develop your own OS and customize to protect your network from being hacked by a foreign country trying to steal classified military documents and blueprints?! This article (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iR2-ba6CKHdydhmsgKlAW_ZiHYnw) will give you more information about what China did.

[nikon133]

Yet another one realizes the obvious: that macs are leaps and bounds beyond windows PCs.

If the Army can figure this one out anybody should be able to as well. Unfortunately, there are those even more dim-witted than the Army.

Yes, Army is clever.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/05/us-army-to-adopt-vista-and-office-2007-by-end-of-2009.ars

;)

[nikon133]

Didn't Microsoft create a special hardened version of Windows and subsequently received some kind of special certification from the US army to have it installed on army computers? Or am I confused with another news story a year ago? It's interesting the OSX doesn't need to go through the same certification process..

Never heard of it.

Officially, US Army is putting Vista and Office 2007 on their desktops, around 750,000 of them. Migration should be finished by the end of this year.

[buceta]

Like who, you?

Because only a dimwit would make a statement like that.

Sorry to bust your patriotic bubble but I deal with the Army regularly and yes, unfortunately when dealing with highly technical problems they need to subcontract or it all flies above their little heads.

[buceta]

Yes, Army is clever.

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/05/us-army-to-adopt-vista-and-office-2007-by-end-of-2009.ars

;)

Army: be all that you can be... which is not much it seems.

[auxlepli]

Yes for things like graphic design and non techies apple is great but when it comes to tax payer money why get an apple when an hp with the same specs is cheaper? (i am talking an hp with linux not windows).

So by your definition a Mac can only do things like graphic design or non-techie stuff which is ludicrous. That's Microsoft FUD spin, and you know it. Or at least should.
Efficiency, cost of use, and maintaining a system should be incorporated too. In that regard, like the story alludes to, Macs are cheaper, and in the long run are cheaper for the taxpayers.
Oh and one more thing, a U.S. government agency can't legally use a free system because it's not stimulating the economy. The only way around it is if the contractor, from which the government is spending money, is using or built a Unix/Linux system.

[auxlepli]

What's the problem if you can develop your own OS and customize to protect your network from being hacked by a foreign country trying to steal classified military documents and blueprints?! This article (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iR2-ba6CKHdydhmsgKlAW_ZiHYnw) will give you more information about what China did.

Maybe when Obama and the other socialists in the states convert the nation to communism then the U.S. government can emulate China. Until then, read my post above.

[brucep]

Like who, you?

Because only a dimwit would make a statement like that.

sad to read when our dear boys and girls are dying in some foreign land

i am proud apple can maybe keep them safe

[brucep]

You're defending someone that used "bleeding hearts"? Not is that a blanket assumption or accusation, that is generally a phrase used by neocons, and not many others.

Just to be clear, I wasn't intending to call Wizard a neocon. But if people want to get political, then they should understand what they're getting into, if you're going to fling, you shouldn't complain when you get flung on. Which I'd say is an excellent demonstration of the same kind of core problem.

Much of the recent global intervention is in large part to make up for the mistakes in intervention decades previous, we were so focused on the problem at hand that it caused problem for the future. The blame can justifiably be spread pretty wide and across political aisles. The US will be paying for mistakes in the current intervention decades from now. You might say that we're still dealing with the ghosts of conflicts from a century ago. The more people understand this and actually try to do something to stop the cycle rather than follow the same old play book, the better off we will be.

jeff you almost pulled it off trying to explain why we go to war
i agree with you
but your words fall far short

even if we somehow stopped the cycle
a Stalin/hitler would still arise to test our pacifist ways
it is so complicated that it is simple
if every man when called to war said no
the mucky mucks would die on the vine

good try dude

[JeffDM]

jeff you almost pulled it off trying to explain why we go to war
i agree with you
but your words fall far short

even if we somehow stopped the cycle
a Stalin/hitler would still arise to test our pacifist ways
it is so complicated that it is simple
if every man when called to war said no
the mucky mucks would die on the vine

good try dude

You do recall that Stalin was an Ally, not an Axis, right? Doesn't that muddy up your response? It might even bolster my case.

Hitler rose to power in part because of the resentment of an incredibly unbalanced treaty at Versailles.

While Stalin was an incredibly evil man (probably top ten of the last century), but I don't think he started a war.

I'm not advocating no war, I'm advocating a looking at the consequences before jumping in, especially when it's someone else's fight. Today's mistakes will become quagmires decades from now, just as we're still dealing with the ghosts of past mistakes. The Taliban exist today in part because the CIA gave the Mujahideen weapons, training and organizational help when the Soviets invaded them. Now the same Taliban is a major risk to regional stability.

Iran used to have a real democracy half a century ago, before the CIA helped end that, I guess the US can't help but meddle. The US gave Saddam/Iraq WMDs to fight Iran. Saddam was evil too, but people didn't seem to mind selling him weapons in the 80's.

There will always be conflicts, but fanning the flames with unnecessary interventions has caused a lot of trouble in response. The one positive intervention result I can think of is the Marshall Plan. And that wasn't a war operation kind of intervention.

[adamthecarny]

It is amazing sometimes the extent of the bleeding hearts in this forum, there is absolutely nothing wrong or unethical with killing the enemy. Sometimes the most efficent way to do that is messy, sometimes invisible to the general population in the end the only important thing is that they die wholesale.

It's all about evolution, just as in biology societies evolve in ways both positive and negative. Those societies that are non functional and dangerous either wither away on their own or must be destroyed from the outside. It is an unfortunate reality but if you want your own culture to grow and sustain itself you have to remove all threats to it. The American people are slowly learning this and hopefully soon the full wieght and power of the military can be applied to the trouble spots in the world.


Dave

Wow. It took me to the end of the page to realise this wasn't sarcastic. It's a pity; it is a beautiful (bordering on genius) caricature of what I thought was an unfair stereotype of the good ol' US of A.

While I don't disagree with your formula Dave, what happens when your idea of enemy differs from someone in another room, state, country?

What happens when your "they" is not congruent with their "they"?

By what divine scale do you rate positive, negative, functional, dangerous, threat, sustain?

What boundaries do you put on "your own" culture; who chooses what is in and what is out?

It is an unfortunate reality that most lay people do not understand evolution, and continue to use it as a weapon against rationality. That you differentiate between "either wither away on their own or must be destroyed from the outside" shows your lack of understanding of one of the most basic elements of evolution.

(As a non American) I'm grateful your opinions are not shared by the majority of your country. What would have happened, I wonder, if it was ESA or (god forbid) China that took the first lunar pot shot?

[brucep]

Edita

[brucep]

You do recall that Stalin was an Ally, not an Axis, right? Doesn't that muddy up your response? It might even bolster my case.

Hitler rose to power in part because of the resentment of an incredibly unbalanced treaty at Versailles.

While Stalin was an incredibly evil man (probably top ten of the last century), but I don't think he started a war.

I'm not advocating no war, I'm advocating a looking at the consequences before jumping in, especially when it's someone else's fight. Today's mistakes will become quagmires decades from now, just as we're still dealing with the ghosts of past mistakes. The Taliban exist today in part because the CIA gave the Mujahideen weapons, training and organizational help when the Soviets invaded them. Now the same Taliban is a major risk to regional stability.

Iran used to have a real democracy half a century ago, before the CIA helped end that, I guess the US can't help but meddle. The US gave Saddam/Iraq WMDs to fight Iran. Saddam was evil too, but people didn't seem to mind selling him weapons in the 80's.

There will always be conflicts, but fanning the flames with unnecessary interventions has caused a lot of trouble in response. The one positive intervention result I can think of is the Marshall Plan. And that wasn't a war operation kind of intervention.

i agree with what you say
i will ad
sometimes all roads lead to disaster

[buceta]

So who's saying that Windows PCs are a better choice for mission critical computers now?

If your mission is to freeze-crash-reboot ad infinitum then Windows PCs are the better choice.

[Mr Beardsley]

I was surprise that the DOD uses commercial OS. You would think that with their huge budget and resources they would develop their own in house variation of Linux. I've seen in the news that China does use their own OS.

If you have ever done any DOD work, you'd understand that they are probably much better off using a commercial OS. I think contracting by its very nature produces a more expensive and lower quality result.

[NasserAE]

If you have ever done any DOD work, you'd understand that they are probably much better off using a commercial OS. I think contracting by its very nature produces a more expensive and lower quality result.

Cool. Why not go ahead and start buying Hummers from GM dealer as well.. they will get cheaper service and lower whole sale prices :rolleyes:
I don't think you can put a price on national security. The army is not a business and their job to protect the nation at all cost. I didn't expect people to forget 911 that quickly.

[brent1a]

It goes both ways. There is also a certain level of naivete in the neocon assumption that centuries and millennia old ethnic conflicts can be solved in a few months with the right firepower.

Personally, I prefer concentrated firepower used precisely and used only once in a while. Then if that doesn't work heavy bombardment for several years usually can send a decent message. But then again, I'm not a NEO-anything. I could care less what politics someone is if they actually used our military to get something done instead of crippling them with such things as "political-correctness", and the so-called "US image abroad".

[brent1a]

.....I guess the US can't help but meddle.....


And now we are a nation striving for peace! Won't everyone PLEASE join us?!?!?!?!?!

Come on....PEACE!

Our President even has a Nobel Prize now proving that we are HOPING for peace with all other nations (only at the cost to ourselves, and no cost to any of those other nations).

[echosonic]

Get real mate. Hawaii, Philippines, Puerto Rico, Iran, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Central America, Cuba - These are some of the places that the US has either invaded or had military involvement in in the last 150 years or so. Most of them for US interests at the cost of the local populace. Just because some groups are sick of it and fighting back you give some lame sarcastic response.

The US is not the only country to do this but you know what, it doesn't absolve the US for their actions either. And you know what - you should censor yourself because your ignorance of history offends me.

Your ignorance of where responsibility lies makes me laugh. Robustly.

I'll censor nothing, thanks. Instead I'll dial up my sarcasm precisely because it offends you.

[echosonic]

Sorry to bust your patriotic bubble but I deal with the Army regularly and yes, unfortunately when dealing with highly technical problems they need to subcontract or it all flies above their little heads.

Sure you do. I totally believe you. Really. And the fact that you routinely post left-wing moonbat commentary would never give me cause to doubt your genuine sincerity.

Neither would your use of such epic backhanded witticisms as "patriotic bubble", or "their little heads."

Seriously, you're a clever one. you should write for Leno. I mean that. Really I do. I'm so impressed.

[shagghie]

Word on street is also that the Army's 10's of thousands of recruiters are going to be toting iPhones running citrix receiver and several customized /recruiting-specific apps, too...

I'd hate to be another service like Air Force in a shopping mall trying to compete with an Army guy that is toting a sexy iPhone, while I was sitting there with a clamshell trying to wait for Windows to come out of Sleep mode...

[Mr Beardsley]

Cool. Why not go ahead and start buying Hummers from GM dealer as well.. they will get cheaper service and lower whole sale prices :rolleyes:
I don't think you can put a price on national security. The army is not a business and their job to protect the nation at all cost. I didn't expect people to forget 911 that quickly.

Somebody sure is cranky today...

As I said the first time around, the government will probably get a higher quality product by using one of the commercial OSes. Look for the past 10 years I've written software for a defense contractor. Our program is supposedly one of the better ones around. I've seen what kind of money goes into producing one app, and what sort of quality results from that app being written on contract. Don't give me some 9/11 garbage lecture because you don't understand the system.

[CurtisEMayle]

Nah... It's them not me. That's where I put the Post It note. I keep the iSight covered with it so the NSA can't see what color underwear I'm using on any particular day. I've been doing that ever since the Patriot Act.

Regarding iSight (external only), the NSA document (http://www.nsa.gov/ia/_files/os/applemac/I731-006R-2007.pdf) (pdf) on OSX security, page 32, suggests taking the file /System/Library/Extensions/Apple_iSight.kext and moving it to the Trash.

[NasserAE]

Somebody sure is cranky today...

As I said the first time around, the government will probably get a higher quality product by using one of the commercial OSes. Look for the past 10 years I've written software for a defense contractor. Our program is supposedly one of the better ones around. I've seen what kind of money goes into producing one app, and what sort of quality results from that app being written on contract. Don't give me some 9/11 garbage lecture because you don't understand the system.

Yeah whatever... believe in whatever keep your paychecks coming in :no:

[CurtisEMayle]

I was surprise that the DOD uses commercial OS. You would think that with their huge budget and resources they would develop their own in house variation of Linux. I've seen in the news that China does use their own OS.

For cost reduction (larger installed user-base, maintenance, legacy requirements), a COTS (commercial-off-the-shelf) mandate was administered for the Navy in the mid-90's. You can read more about NAVSEA's policy details here (http://cots.navsea.navy.mil). I've been out of the loop for a few years, so I'm not certain of the current status. But, Admiral Tuttle, in charge of technology, was the standardization advocate and his chief technical advisor lobbied him towards Windows on PCs. The upside was a MS marketshare increase; the downside for MS was that the increase carried the "penalty" to agree to support military requirements for legacy systems (longterm version maintenance).

[Mr Beardsley]

Yeah whatever... believe in whatever keep your paychecks coming in :no:

You crack me up :lol:

Since you don't get it, let me break it down for you. When the Government needs something like software or video surveillance systems that either buy an existing solution or create a contract with a company to build them one. If an existing solution is already being produced it's almost always in the best interest of the government to just use that solution. Contracts are necessary, but they are extremely prone to running over budget and quality seems to not match that of commercial products. When a commercial company produces a product they have to make it great or they won't get paid and they go out of business. When a company produces a product on contract they get paid ahead of time, and they are supposed to deliver what was required. As a consequence the product usually meets the minimum requirements, but things like good design, ease of use, etc aren't a huge concern. I hate that's the way it is, but it is. Now take something like an OS that has had decades of work put into it, and imagine what the outcome would be if the government tried to contract something like that. There would be massive bureaucracy surrounding it, the cost would be astronomical, and based on my experience it wouldn't hold a candle to the offerings of Microsoft or Apple. As a taxpayer I'd think you'd want the government to get the best product for their money. That's an off the shelf system when a suitable one exists, and a custom when needed.

[CurtisEMayle]

You crack me up :lol:

Since you don't get it, let me break it down for you. When the Government needs something like software or video surveillance systems that either buy an existing solution or create a contract with a company to build them one. If an existing solution is already being produced it's almost always in the best interest of the government to just use that solution. Contracts are necessary, but they are extremely prone to running over budget and quality seems to not match that of commercial products. When a commercial company produces a product they have to make it great or they won't get paid and they go out of business. When a company produces a product on contract they get paid ahead of time, and they are supposed to deliver what was required. As a consequence the product usually meets the minimum requirements, but things like good design, ease of use, etc aren't a huge concern. I hate that's the way it is, but it is. Now take something like an OS that has had decades of work put into it, and imagine what the outcome would be if the government tried to contract something like that. There would be massive bureaucracy surrounding it, the cost would be astronomical, and based on my experience it wouldn't hold a candle to the offerings of Microsoft or Apple. As a taxpayer I'd think you'd want the government to get the best product for their money. That's an off the shelf system when a suitable one exists, and a custom when needed.

Yes, that's it in a nutshell.

[Superbass]

For security, ease of use and features, the U.S. Army has reportedly turned to Apple hardware for four new video surveillance installations.

According to Security Systems News, the Army now has four video surveillance installations based on Mac OS X and Apple servers. Pat Mercer, security business leader/sales manager with Siemens, said the IT department was initially reluctant to go Mac, but as they explored the systems, it became clear it was the best and most secure option.

"When you ask them what their requirements are, they say, 'Low bandwidth, and I need to make sure nothing is going to hack into my network via your system,' Mercer said. "That’s where the Mac conversation begins. The viruses, hacking, all of those things are dramatically minimized with Apple and it eliminates a lot of those challenges."

Chris Gettings, CEO and president of VideoNEXT, said the Mac offers security that Windows cannot, and a user interface far superior to Red Hat Linux.

"It just runs," Gettings said. "You’re not going to have some of the memory-leak issues that seem to plague different versions of the Windows systems. And mission-critical customers appreciate that."

He said he particularly appreciates the consistency found in Apple hardware. When ordering identical servers from Dell two weeks apart, Gettings said he discovered that a chip on the motherboard had been changed. But with Apple, he said, he doesn't need to worry about issues like that. The streamlined hardware also allows him to create a more efficient system.

"He can put as many as 60 cameras on one Apple server that, according the specifications, has the same performance abilities as a Dell or HP server that can only serve 50 cameras," the report said.

The news isn't the first report of the U.S. Army embracing the Apple platform. In 2007, the military branch stepped up its Mac orders to thwart hacking attempts. The Army began shifting away from a Windows-only environment in 2005, when General Steve Boutelle warned that a homogenous operating system environment could expose a computer system to large-scale hacking attempts.

The Army has also used Apple hardware in the field, adopting custom iPods to be used as field translators in Iraq. The U.S. Army's 10th Mountain Division reportedly used iPods and iPod nanos modified to run a special application from Vcom 3D known as Vcommunicator Mobile. The system allows soldiers to choose words or phrases to broadcast out of an attached speaker and communicate with locals.

I guess that's why the war's going so poorly.

[vinea]

Somebody sure is cranky today...

As I said the first time around, the government will probably get a higher quality product by using one of the commercial OSes. Look for the past 10 years I've written software for a defense contractor. Our program is supposedly one of the better ones around. I've seen what kind of money goes into producing one app, and what sort of quality results from that app being written on contract. Don't give me some 9/11 garbage lecture because you don't understand the system.

They do and they don't. Yes, the OSs are commercial however they tend to be more secure versions of those OS's with higher EAL certs and deployed with tighter security requirements than most commercial installations. Typically these OS's cost a bit more either in price (Secure Solaris) or in deployment costs (hardening Linux with MAC and RBAC).

As far as quality of apps goes, like most things it varies by how mission critical something is. Flight software tends to be pretty robust whether civilian or military. Fart apps not so much.

[MacWell]

I think we (US) should act much more like 'biology societies' and simply defend our country at our borders. As it is now, the government has no control of our borders. This is substantially due to student visas that were encouraged for years so that our universities could profit from foreign student tuition. Now there are so many loopholes in the student visa and work visa system that we will never fix it. One person gets in and immediately summons all their relatives to come live here too. This is entirely separate from the other immigration policies and issues regarding VietNam, China and Mexico, and so called British colonies, etc. Anyone who claims persecution or hardship in their own country can just come live with us and the taxpayer will foot the bill.

If it were possible I would like to see them all go back home, but now that they have their US born children and families we can't break them up and deport half of an illegal family, now can we?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=mstone;1498128]If the US were to leave foreign countries, those people would be much less likely to venture here to the US and attack us than they would be in just continue fighting amongst themselves.

How's this for an idea?
Instead of worrying about something we have no control over, (the climate), and saving the spotted snail darter, and focus our attention on the real problems in the world, I mean the ones we can do something about. What we should do is rid the world of despots and petty dictators, all of them, and leave this planet safe for our children and grandchildren. Then, when the next generations put their knowledge together, without fear or intimidation, they can utilize science to solve the problems that conflict cannot, like the climate, and cancer, and ways to feed the whole world, sickness, and raise everyone's standard of living. I can't for the life of me understand why this president, or any president, would rather lower America's standard of living, to meet the rest of the world, rather than find ways to raise the rest of the world's to match ours. Just so you don't think I'm too pessimistic, I think we are utilizing the very instrument that will mark the beginning of the end of world conflict, this thing we call the internet.

[Chris_CA]

What's the problem if you can develop your own OS and customize to protect your network from being hacked by a foreign country trying to steal classified military documents and blueprints?! This article (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iR2-ba6CKHdydhmsgKlAW_ZiHYnw) will give you more information about what China did.
My point was that "DoD" is an extremely broad term when used in the context you did.
I was surprise that the DOD uses commercial OS. You would think that with their huge budget and resources they would develop their own in house variation of Linux.
They do develop and have dozens of their own in-house OSs but likely +95% of "DoD" users have standard, off the shelf computers and software, as most likely does China.
Only certain systems would have any "special" stuff.

[mstone]

How's this for an idea?
... focus our attention on the real problems in the world, I mean the ones we can do something about. What we should do is rid the world of despots and petty dictators, all of them, and leave this planet safe for our children and grandchildren. Then, when the next generations put their knowledge together, without fear or intimidation, ...

Please fix the code in your post.

You must be from some other planet because you don't have a clue what's going on, on planet Earth.

[MacWell]

Please fix the code in your post.

You must be from some other planet because you don't have a clue what's going on, on planet Earth.


I've been around a long time sonny and I do know one thing, there are a lot of great people around this world who's talent will be stifled because of tyrants and petty dictators.

[mstone]

I've been around a long time sonny and I do know one thing, there are a lot of great people around this world who's talent will be stifled because of tyrants and petty dictators.

Oh please, you might overheat the two remaining brain cells you have just trying to figure out where the [ ] go in the reply code let alone trying to solve any world peace issues.

[adamthecarny]

... I can't for the life of me understand why this president, or any president, would rather lower America's standard of living, to meet the rest of the world, rather than find ways to raise the rest of the world's to match ours...

As a member of "the rest of the world" (or should that be "the other 95.5% of the world") I kindly ask that you get a better idea of where the USA's standard of living actually is in comparison to "the rest of the world" before asking for your president to interfere where he has no jurisdiction and is not needed. Most of the world does not share the USA's idea of what constitutes "standard of living"; we would include health, for instance.