The Draft... :no:

[Paul]

I just got a letter from the SSS (selective Service System) saying that I failed to register for the draft... :rolleyes:
Apparently, if I don't in 10 days (December 30th) the DoJ is going to come out and arrest me... happy new year... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

I have a lot of problems with the <a href="http://www.sss.gov" target="_blank">SSS</a>... the first of which being that MEN are the only ones required to register... and it is against the rules to even let women register even if they wanted to...

Now... equal rights and all that... why arn't women forced to register just as men? When it comes to things like this you don't hear "discrimination!" being shouted from feminist groups...

Second of all... I do not believe in war... why should I be forced to register if what I am going to be supporting (either by killing people, or working as a surgeon, or as a teacher... whatever) for 24 months is AGAINST MY WILL...

Thirdly... ministers of the faith get automatic exemption... WTF... While I understand the idea that the loss of a preacher in the time of war could destroy some communities... But who is to say that me leaving home isn't going to destroy my family and friends? (A bit egoistic, I know, but I am just trying to make a point...)

The point is I don't feel I should be FORCED into action... I believe that if there was a war... and the gov't needed help... they should ask for it... not force kids to go to war...who knows how I will really feel about it (my thoughts about war notwithstanding) but the choice should be mine... not based on some lottery drum (two of them in-fact)....

[quote] Class 1-A: Available for unrestricted military service

<strong>Class 1-A-O: Conscientious objector available for noncombatant military service only

Class 1-O: Conscientious objector to all military service

Class 1-O-S: Conscientious objector to all military service (separated/discharged from military service)</strong>

Class 2-D: Registrants deferred because of study preparing for the ministry

Class 3-A: Registrants deferred because of hardship to dependents

Class 3-A-S: Registrants deferred because of hardship to dependents (separated/discharged from military service)

<strong>Class 4-D: Minister of religion</strong>

Class 1-D-D: Deferment for certain members of a reserve component or student taking military training

<strong>Class 4-B: Official deferred by law</strong>

Class 4-C: Alien or dual national

Class 4-G: Registrants exempted from service because of the death of his parent or sibling while serving in the Armed Forces or whose parent or sibling is in a captured or missing in action status

Class 4-A: Registrants who have completed military service

Class 4-A-A: Registrants who have performed military service for a foreign nation

Class 4-W: Registrants who have completed alternative service in lieu of induction

Class 1-D-E: Exemption of certain members of a reserve component or student taking military training

Class 1-C: Members of the Armed Forces of the United States, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or the Public Health Service

<strong>Class 1-W: Conscientious objector ordered to perform alternative service in lieu of induction</strong>

Class 4-T: Treaty alien

Class 4-F: Registrants not acceptable for military service

<strong>Class 1-H: Registrants not subject to processing for induction</strong> <hr></blockquote>

[ 12-23-2002: Message edited by: Paul ]</p>

[nx7oe]

[quote] I have a lot of problems with the SSS... the first of which being that MEN are the only ones required to register... and it is against the rules to even let women register even if they wanted to... <hr></blockquote>

Men in WWII carried playboy model pictures to remeber what they were fighting for. Personally, i would rather die instead of letting any woman die for me.

[Matsu]

Given that we may be fighting against the opression of the Burka (and for oil), I think it important to defend our God given right to tits and a$$! Now add a little oil to that T&A, and you got something worth dying for! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[ 12-23-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>

[murbot]

Chicks, cars, and the third world war.

(any Colin James fans out there?)

:p

[TigerWoods99]

Bush can go f*ck himself. I'd rather live thank you.

[TigerWoods99]

Oh and did they really say they were gonna arrest you in 10 days if you didnt? I wonder what happens if you dont register for the selective services, do they really do anything to you? I know someone who's like 22 or so and they say they never even bothered, and I dont see them in jail. Do they fine you? I got a letter in my mail box at college telling me that if I didnt register in like 2 days then I wouldnt be able to get in state tuition for skool.....what bull is that? I thought I was the only one who never registered, guess others wanna fight the system like me. My mom actually asked if women had to......yeah they should have to. Just as capable as my @$$ is to fight a war that has no purpose.

[pscates]

Two things:

One, thank God the prevailing attitudes that exist today didn't seem to be so widespread 50 years ago. Think about it.

Two, if you're a conscientious objector that's fine with me. That's your deal and that's what you believe. However, I do remember that case a few years ago of someone in the military (remember, he joined VOLUNTARILY) who - as war with Iraq was nearing - suddenly declared himself one.

<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

Here's a news flash: when you join the military (again, VOLUNTARILY), there's a slight chance you might have to - gasp! - fight.

:eek:

If you know you can't (or won't) live up to THAT end of the bargain, then be thoughtful enough to not join in the first place. What, did you think it's all about a paycheck, world travel and pussy?

:rolleyes:

It's not, and to pull something like that dishonors everyone who wore the uniform, put themselves in harm's way, shed blood and perhaps even lost their lives.

All to defend the very things that so many of us take for granted.

Don't believe in war? Fine. Hate Bush? Fine. That's your right.

Just don't forget who does an amazing job of ensuring those rights continue to exist.

[Dogcow]

I registered when I turned 18 last march. Its really no big deal.

First, I dont think there is going to be another draft.
Second, If there is a draft chances are i'm not going to be called up
Third, If i am called up I will fight, I have no problem fighting for my rights. It's not "bush's war" it's our war as a country. In return for the rights I have as a citizen I understand that I may be called by the government to serve my country, that could be in the form of jury duty or in the form of a draft or anywhere in between. If I don't agree to do what is asked of me then I don't have to be a citizen. It's my choice and yours.

Finaly, I could use some basic training to shave off a few pounds ;)

[trevorM]

The SSS really sucks by the sounds of things!

[Defiant]

what exactly is the SSS ? do all american men have to register ? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Outsider]

I didn't.

Bush just pardoned some minister that refused military service in 1957.

Anyways, don't they fight wars with little robots controlled from inside bunkers deep in the ground? Might be fun... :p

[Matsu]

Unlike many Euros, I'm fairly content to have Americans do much of the world's dirty work. A US draft/army means less chance of me having to get in harm's way. Thank-you boys.

[trumptman]

Well I registered the day I turned 18. I registered both to vote and to possibly be drafted if the country declared that sort of need.

Now that is truly one thing to consider when people complain about this. If the draft is enacted, it is likely going to be during a time when the country is under such attack that they themselves have no alternative so thus how can they give you one?

Why is it that even with feminism only men are called to register for the draft? I would suggest reading The Myth of Male Power by Warren Farrell Ph.D, though I warn you it will only piss you off more.

To sum it up quite well, men are disposable, women are not. Although men are disposable and taught to be that way their whole lives, it is considered a "powerful" position for some reason.

Now that men are not in a privileged position (nor were they ever as much so as feminist would have you believe) they are less likely to feel inclined to be disposable. In fact since in many more cases they are now more repressed than ever, many seem to shirk responsibility in any number of ways. The saddest part is that even when they seek to not avoid responsibility, they can still end up criminalized as is often the case with things like child support issues and custody.

It isn't likely to change so my advice for now would be to just get over it, register, and then perhaps work for change without a warrant.

Nick

[Fellowship]

trumptman:

I aggree with you on many things but with this reply I would suggest not to worry about what this book you reference says. People that look into things this deep are really not trying to enjoy life. Pfflam here on the boards is one I have seen at AI for example who will review an issue to death to such a point that the original idea that sparked the original issue gets lost in the noise.

I would suggest that life is what we make of it and some things are really just not worth getting upset about.

Just 2 cents..

Have a great Christmas Nick

Fellowship

[trailmaster308]

I believe all American men should register not just because it is required. Because its what a "MAN" should do. I do not believe that the draft will ever be reinstated, but if it is..it will be because the massive number of troops and weapons we have are not enough. If that is the case then the situation is out of control and we are no safer here than in the fight.

[hmurchison]

[quote] Men in WWII carried playboy model pictures to remeber what they were fighting for. Personally, i would rather die instead of letting any woman die for me.
<hr></blockquote>

Your Chivalry is Duly Noted however some people feel like Neither Men nor Women should be forced into Combat against their will.


[quote] If you know you can't (or won't) live up to THAT end of the bargain, then be thoughtful enough to not join in the first place. What, did you think it's all about a paycheck, world travel and pussy? <hr></blockquote>

LOL...in a way that's what our Grandfather and Great Grandfather fought for. For our children to grow up without the threat of War. To Enjoy peace. It's definitely a conundrum.

[quote] Unlike many Euros, I'm fairly content to have Americans do much of the world's dirty work. A US draft/army means less chance of me having to get in harm's way. Thank-you boys. <hr></blockquote>

Matsu you smartass <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> But believe me many people feel like that.

I never expected to end up in Saudi Arabia at 19 so I guess you could say that if you join..don't be too sure you won't be touching down on some desolate country with an AR15 strapped to your side. But hey...it's always nice to know you have the Kahunas. Call it a Rite of Passage.

[Paul]

[quote]Originally posted by trailmaster308:
<strong>I believe all American men should register not just because it is required. Because its what a "MAN" should do. I do not believe that the draft will ever be reinstated, but if it is..it will be because the massive number of troops and weapons we have are not enough. If that is the case then the situation is out of control and we are no safer here than in the fight.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If that is the case... chances are people will register themselves to fight...thereby negating the need for a draft...

if there is no need for a draft... so why force people to register?

that is all I am getting at...

[quote] Now that is truly one thing to consider when people complain about this. If the draft is enacted, it is likely going to be during a time when the country is under such attack that they themselves have no alternative so thus how can they give you one <hr></blockquote>

If the country is under attack... I'm more then positive there will be people (myself included) who would rather fight for their freedom, and die then have their freedom stripped away from them, by their own country...

[quote] Your Chivalry is Duly Noted however some people feel like Neither Men nor Women should be forced into Combat against their will. <hr></blockquote>

The point is noone should be forced into doing anything... I was just noting the fact that the whole idea of having a draft is flawed...

[quote] It isn't likely to change so my advice for now would be to just get over it, register, and then perhaps work for change without a warrant. <hr></blockquote>

You are right...I yielded...but it doesn't make me feel good that i have to compromise what i believe just so I don't get arrested...I mean, its not like I am doing something bad...

the fact of the matter is the draft is outdated... and it should be abolished... if not amended so women are treated the same as men... because if it ever comes down to it, we are going to need as many people as possible, right? :rolleyes: Or are women not people? ;)

[trumptman]

[quote]Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook:
<strong>trumptman:

I aggree with you on many things but with this reply I would suggest not to worry about what this book you reference says. People that look into things this deep are really not trying to enjoy life. Pfflam here on the boards is one I have seen at AI for example who will review an issue to death to such a point that the original idea that sparked the original issue gets lost in the noise.

I would suggest that life is what we make of it and some things are really just not worth getting upset about.

Just 2 cents..

Have a great Christmas Nick

Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>

I hope you have a great Christmas as well. I know the book is deeply analytical but that doesn't mean you won't enjoy life. Though there is the possibility of that and I did warn that it might just "piss him off more."

I read it because I resolve to always read books periodically that I suspect I wouldn't agree with at all. I call them "whacks on the side of the head." I use them to insure that my reading doesn't become to limited because in this day and age it is very easy to insure that the views, news and information you get is exactly what you want to hear.

Nick

[Paul]

[quote]Originally posted by trumptman:
<strong>I read it because I resolve to always read books periodically that I suspect I wouldn't agree with at all. I call them "whacks on the side of the head." I use them to insure that my reading doesn't become to limited because in this day and age it is very easy to insure that the views, news and information you get is exactly what you want to hear.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's always fun to read something you don't agree with... Thats why I watch TV... It is so much fun to put on a show that you know is going to piss you off, just to yell about it and explain why you think it is retarded... heh even if you are wrong you will have a good time ;)

thats why FC has had so much traffic...

[ 12-24-2002: Message edited by: Paul ]</p>

[BRussell]

[quote]Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook:
<strong>People that look into things this deep are really not trying to enjoy life.</strong><hr></blockquote>Hmmm. If you think and analyze things you are not enjoying life? Some people might feel the unexamined life is not worth living.
:)

[BR]

[quote]Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook:
<strong>People that look into things this deep are really not trying to enjoy life.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why am I not suprirsed that you would say something like that?

[thuh Freak]

i think you should register, if only to avoid jail/fine. you dont want that shit on ur record. since ur a college student [more than half time?] you are exempt from the draft [part of that montgomery gi bill]. and, if u graduate on time, you'll probably be out of the popular age range of guys called. but if ur ever called into service, you should try to gay it up. get all kissy with one of the other fellas in line, or ask one of the officers on a date. they aren't allowed to ask you if ur gay, but if u offer that info, they'll likely not want you in the army [they might still throw you in the navy, i suppose :p ]. if your still sent off to fight, with enough complaining you could prolly get sent back to some nothing assignment, and not be in combat. it'll still wreck your plans and shit, but atleast you wouldn't be in harm's way.

personally, i registered as soon as i got the notice; about 4 months before i turned 18. they sent me a reply saying that it was too soon, but they'd keep my papers around till the time came. and, if called, i would serve in this man's army; but i don't think anyone should be forced.

[quote]Originally posted by Defiant
<strong>what exactly is the SSS ? do all american men have to register ? </strong><hr></blockquote>
SSS: Selective Service System. The Selective Service is a general term for the whole American army [actually, maybe just the draft portion]. All American men are supposed to register for the draft when they are 18. When Congress declares war [and sometimes when they don't], they can start a draft, where random 18+ year old men are called or written and told to report to the SSS. The age group called varies per war. In ww1&2 i think it avg'd like ~21, by Vietnam i think it was like 19, and by the Gulf War, i think it was down to 18.

edit: ubb

[ 12-24-2002: Message edited by: thuh Freak ]</p>

[Defiant]

thank you very much ! :)

[Dogcow]

If you are in school you are allowed to finish the current grading term then you are required to go.

If you dont want to fight on religious reasons you can get a note from a pastor/rabbi or the like to try and get out of it.

Personally I dont care if women have to register. it's just a fact that men are better suited for war type situations, we want the best so we can win and get it over with don't we?) besides no one is stoping women from joinning the service if they want to.

[BR]

[quote]Originally posted by Dogcow:
<strong>Personally I dont care if women have to register. it's just a fact that men are better suited for war type situations, we want the best so we can win and get it over with don't we?) besides no one is stoping women from joinning the service if they want to.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That isn't true anymore. Women can be pilots and all sorts of frontliners now. However, there are plenty of non-combat positions women can fill too. Women who demand equality must also demand either the selected services to be shut down or for equal treatment under the draft.

[trumptman]

[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>

That isn't true anymore. Women can be pilots and all sorts of frontliners now. However, there are plenty of non-combat positions women can fill too. Women who demand equality must also demand either the selected services to be shut down or for equal treatment under the draft.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would have to agree. Especially since women while finally being allowed into some of these roles also still are mostly confined to non-combat roles.

I mean if you think about it this doesn't work with volunteerism. Women could come and volunteer for all the non-combat roles and literally make it so that men have to be drafted for the combat roles. (We have enough volunteers, just not enough fighting volunteers)

I say make then register for the draft. In fact in the name of equality I think that women should be the only ones who have to register for the draft until 2.2 million of them have been killed in combat to match the number of U.S. men who have been killed.

I think I would just settle for them having to register though... ;)

Nick