Tivo vs Replay TV [Archive]

kumrabai

03-07-2003, 02:47 PM

Hi all

Looking for advice on which of the above to get. So far, Replay TV seems to be better than Tivo in terms of features, and integration with internet. I especially like the wireless internet option - this would fit in well with my home network.

But I heard something about Tivo developing close relationship with Apple - I would sure hate to miss out on this if it happened. Added value is what we want, right?

So what's the word? What will the additional functionality be, will it be a software download on the existing machine, or will a Tivo 3 come out?

Cheers

hmurchison

03-07-2003, 03:14 PM

Tivo= baaaaad

ReplayTV= Goood.

ReplyTV is on the verge of passing up Tivo.

1. DVArchive 2.0 gives you functionality that Tivo could only dream about

2. Ethernet. Why isn't this on Tivo??

3. Component Outputs on RTV!

4. Commercial Skip and Advance. Killer features that the Entertainment Whore Tivo will never add.

5. Cheaper. RTV is $9.95 per month or $250 Lifetime. Tivo is 12.95 per month or $299

Ponton

03-07-2003, 03:36 PM

How easy is RTV to upgrade, such as adding larger HDD. I know there are several companies providing kits and/or service to add more HDD space to Tivos, including up to 200+ recording hours. Any info on RTV? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Kickaha

03-07-2003, 04:27 PM

Yeah. Open the case, take out the old drive, insert a new one.

The TiVo (at least used to) requires you to have the drive formatted A Partikulur Way(tm), and it won't do it itself. The ReplayTV looks at the drive, says "Oh, it's new, no problem" and lays down what it needs to use it.

The TiVo/Apple thing was TiVo adopting Rendevouz in its systems... which only makes sense if they're going to make them easily networkable. We'll see. So far they're still behind ReplayTV in my book, although I understand that some people vastly prefer the TiVo UI. You might want to try both and see which you like.

saabmp3

03-07-2003, 05:25 PM

The replay isn't THAT easy to upgrade. You still have to format the drive a particular way or buy a new one on ebay preformatted. It is however very easy to do.

Go with the replay, I have one and LOVE it.

BEN

koffedrnkr

03-07-2003, 06:10 PM

a little TIVO counterpoint....

i agree replay TV has some great features...but those features have generated the hatred and illwill of the entertainment industry... and sonicblue has multiple lawsuits to prove it. TIVO has taken a compromise position which, along with their current partnerships with direcTV, sony and philips , will help to ensure its continued survival.

it's neat that replay can mail shows to other replay owners, but the process takes hours and who needs that? i honestly wish tivo had component out...it doesn't...oh well. my SVHS video input looks fine to me. as for commercial advance, a simple 2 second key combination on the remote gives tivo the same :30 commercial skip feature that replay boasts...and with the upcoming $99 tivo expanded service, you'll be able to ethernet it to your existing mac and share music & photos with your main entertainment system because apple & tivo are also partnering. OSX apps exist not only to format larger tivo drives with your mac, but also to share programming as well.

add to this a very easy interface, a very good remote control, and a low price ($350 with rebate for an 80 hour tivo SERIES 2) and you have a very nice experience.....

highfalutintodd

03-07-2003, 06:22 PM

While many of my friends have TiVo, I'm the odd duck out and have a ReplayTV. I love this device dearly, and wouldn't give it up for the world. I strongly looked to both the Replay and the TiVo before purchasing, and I just kept coming back to the cleaner, more elegant user interface of the Replay.

I've been ultra-satisfied with its service and features, and highly recommend this device. In fact, it's one of the few pieces of electronics I own (the iPod being another) that my wife absolutely loves. When I first brought home the Replay, my wife gave me that, "oh no, not another box" look. After I got it hooked up and showed her how it worked, she grabbed the remote control from me and hasn't given it back!

If TiVo does start having tight integration with my Macs and iLife, I'll be a tad jealous, but for the time being, I'm happy to have my home theater doing what it does well, and my Mac doing what it does well.

David R

03-07-2003, 10:36 PM

<a href="http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/jan/07rendezvous.html" target="_blank">Press release about TiVo and Apple</a>

<a href="http://tivo.com/4.9.1.asp" target="_blank">Description of what the new TiVos will be able to do soon</a>

[ 03-07-2003: Message edited by: David R ]

David R

03-07-2003, 10:47 PM

[ 03-07-2003: Message edited by: David R ]

hmurchison

03-08-2003, 05:48 PM

[quote] i agree replay TV has some great features...but those features have generated the hatred and illwill of the entertainment industry... and sonicblue has multiple lawsuits to prove it. TIVO has taken a compromise position which, along with their current partnerships with direcTV, sony and philips , will help to ensure its continued survival. <hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> Oh you mean like DIVX right? Getting in bed with greedy Entertainment smucks is no way to survice. Both services are in a precarious position. Computers with PVR functions are getting better and better and most offer free Guide services. Tivo's HMO(Home Media Option) can be accomplished by various devices without giving Tivo $99 additional.

[quote] as for commercial advance, a simple 2 second key combination on the remote gives tivo the same :30 commercial skip feature that replay boasts <hr></blockquote>

But you see that's my point. PVRs are supposed to make view TV EASIER. A freakin' $80 VCR offers that without the need to "Program" Every Tivo user I've read who's drank WAY TOO much of the koolaid bring up this point. Again Tivo has gone out of their way to make functionality more difficult for their users who are foolish enough to actually PAY them for this.

[quote]If TiVo does start having tight integration with my Macs and iLife, I'll be a tad jealous, but for the time being, I'm happy to have my home theater doing what it does well, and my Mac doing what it does well. <hr></blockquote>

Sonicblue can easily add Rendezvous to future RTV. It's a free SDK. They already have a Networked DVD player so why not add Ren support to both in future models.
[quote]
What is Home Media Option?
Home Media Option is a premium package designed to bring you the best in networked home entertainment. Subscribers who have a TiVo Series2 DVR and purchase Home Media Option will be able to enjoy four new features:
Digital music
Digital photos
Remote scheduling from the web
Multi-room viewing
<hr></blockquote>

Now THAT's Earth Shattering<sarcasm>

If Tivo wants to be the Entertainment industries pawn that fine...just send the freakin' bill to them.

David R

03-08-2003, 06:37 PM

If you want your DVR to talk to your Mac, go with tivo. That's all I can say at the moment.

anand

03-09-2003, 09:43 AM

David R is right. And it is getting to be no secret. Look in this months issue of Macworld, there is a write-up on the hook-up between iPhoto, iTunes and tivo.

shetline

03-09-2003, 10:42 AM

I really like a lot of the features Replay has. I like the company's attitude too, in the face of all the whining by broadcasters and Hollywood. But if you've got DirecTV, TiVo has two major advantages: direct digital recording, and the ability to record two satellite channels at the same time.

If you have Replay and DirecTV, you have to make analog connections between the PVR and the satellite receiver. One of the worst things you can do in any digital compression scheme is add extra stages of decompression and recompression, add that's exactly what happens:

compressed digital in from sat -> decompressed digital -> convert to analog -> digitize again -> recompress with a lower-quality digitizer than was use in the original broadcast

What sucks right now is that the only second-generation PVR with TiVo doesn't do satellite. Some of the first-generation TiVos can be god-awful noisy (fan and drive noise).

What I'm really excited about, however, is that later this year TiVo is supposed to be introducing a PVR that does HDTV, both satellite and terrestrial, and it's going to add at least some of the networking capabilities of Replay.

I have HDTV, but I rarely use it because PVR convenience wins out most of the time, and because my old HDTV receiver, now out of warranty, has become very flaky and buggy. I'm not going to bother to replace it until I can get PVR and HDTV in the same box.

hmurchison

03-09-2003, 01:18 PM

The only problem with HDTV and Tivo is that once must consider just how good this actually is going to be.

Tivo has clearly shown by it's actions that it's consumer's needs come after the Entertainment Industry. Their "pause adds" lack of features that help "manage" commercials leads me to believe their just a an advertising vehicle for Hollywood.

It's amazing. Television used to be free and now the typical consumer PAYS to be fed %20 of commercials and companies like Tivo actually Thwart any attempts to reduce this. HDTV will now only raise the paranoia of Hollywood and you'll see more restrictions.

I hope Sonicblue and Tivo survice but I don't think they will honestly. $550 is alot to pay for what essentially is a HD based VCR with super VCR+.

Eventually their will be computer based PVR's without the monthly or lifetime service and consumers will migrate quickly to those.

kumrabai

03-11-2003, 03:35 PM

Well, it seems to me that the ability to share iPhoto and iTunes over to a TV is not exactly a killer app. I can see it being useful in some limited circumstances, but overall, big deal.

Is the network link up on the RTV fairly easy to organise? i.e. Is it easy to join a wireless network?

[quote]Originally posted by David R:
<a href="http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2003/jan/07rendezvous.html" target="_blank">Press release about TiVo and Apple</a>

<a href="http://tivo.com/4.9.1.asp" target="_blank">Description of what the new TiVos will be able to do soon</a>

[ 03-07-2003: Message edited by: David R ]<hr></blockquote>

LoCash

03-12-2003, 11:14 PM

I have a Sony S-VR3000 TiVo, and I really like it. There are a couple of things I question about it though: 1) No built-in RJ45 jack. Sure, I can add a USB adapter... but I shouldn't have to. 2) No Component out? This just seems like a no-brainer to me, but whatever.

I was offered a job at ReplayTV back in 1999, but honestly, I didn't think they were going to be around as long as they have been. I haven't looked at their stuff too much, truth be told. I hate to say it, but I went with the TiVo 'cause 'that's what everyone else has'.

RosettaStoned

03-13-2003, 02:02 AM

I also own the Sony SVR-3000 TiVo and I love it. I've used both Replay and TiVo at friends' houses, and after experience with both interfaces, I found the TiVo interface to be superior.

I've been able to easily make my nightly TiVo calls wirelessly with the help of an RCA wireless phone jack. My friend has his connected to his DSL line and makes his calls that way.

TiVo DOES have commercial advance. Type the code into the remote once, and there it is. I use it constantly.

A new software upgrade in April will bring many new capabilities to TiVo. I posted a couple examples at this thread:

<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=000492" target="_blank">http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=000492</a>

But most importantly, I have to mention again how superior I think the TiVo user interface is. To me, TiVo is the Mac of the PVR world. Good luck!

--------------
RosettaStoned

hmurchison

03-13-2003, 02:18 AM

[QUOTEBut most importantly, I have to mention again how superior I think the TiVo user interface is. To me, TiVo is the Mac of the PVR world. Good luck!

[/QUOTE]

<gasp> Blasphemous!!

LoCash

03-13-2003, 02:47 AM

[quote]Originally posted by RosettaStoned:

TiVo DOES have commercial advance. Type the code into the remote once, and there it is. I use it constantly.
<hr></blockquote>

Ok, pretend like I'm a complete idiot. What do I do to get commercial advance?

Also, with the way the television industry is moving, not shipping your current PVR with component jacks is just plain careless.

RosettaStoned

03-13-2003, 01:47 PM

30-Second Skip on TiVo

Grab your TiVo remote.

Bring up any recorded program. (You have to be watching a recorded program rather than "Live TV" in order to enable the feature.)

On your TiVo remote, key in the following sequence:

SELECT PLAY SELECT 30 SELECT

If you've successfully entered the code, you should hear three "bings" in succession to inform you that you've successfully enabled the 30 second skip.

After enabling the 30 second skip feature, The -->| button becomes a 30 second skip button. Once you begin using this feature, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it.

Note that any time your TiVo is rebooted (such as after a power outage or a software update) you'll have to re-enable this feature.

Should you not like the 30 second skip, you can disable it by re-entering the Easter Egg exactly as you did to enable it.

Enjoy!

---------------------
RosettaStoned

tismfu

03-13-2003, 02:14 PM

I vote for TiVo... it has the best chance of survival and it has a great UI and remote.

PS - some people are way too loyal to products they use... it's just a DVR... calm down.

Paul

03-13-2003, 02:36 PM

hmurchison

03-13-2003, 02:36 PM

[quote]Originally posted by tismfu:
I vote for TiVo... it has the best chance of survival and it has a great UI and remote.

PS - some people are way too loyal to products they use... it's just a DVR... calm down.<hr></blockquote>

I don't care if it has a command line. UI is nice but Tivo drops the ball on Consumer Orientated features. Most of us are trying to maximize the little freakin' time we have after the typical workday and commute. Therefore DVR's primary benefit isn't UI(Hell VCR Plus had a horrible UI but it worked) but rather can it revolutionize our viewing habits. ReplayTV wins when looked at from that perspective IMO.

RosettaStoned

03-13-2003, 05:16 PM

Which "Consumer Orientated features" has TiVo dropped the ball on? I'm curious, other than the geek-oriented features, what features that 90% of consumers could and would use are missing on TiVo?

Also, earlier you mentioned that "eventually their (there) will be computer based PVR's without the monthly or lifetime service and consumers will migrate quickly to those." I disagree. Consumers will never come to grips with using a PVR on their computers. Instead, it is the cable companies that will offer TiVo/Replay functionality without the monthly service fees. Time Warner is already previewing their PVR cable box in many markets. It has an 80GB hard drive and a nifty interface that is already familiar to millions of cable subscribers. Plus, no monthly fees...

In my opinion, it is the cable companies that will eventually win out in the PVR marketplace. However, rumor has it that a couple of key cable ops may license the TiVo software for their own cable PVR boxes. Sony has already licensed the TiVo technology for two other products. Toshiba is producing a TiVo/DVD combo for Xmas. The TiVo machines may not survive, but the technology certainly will.

---------------
RosettaStoned

schalliol

03-15-2003, 07:26 PM

[quote]Originally posted by RosettaStoned:
30-Second Skip on TiVo

Grab your TiVo remote.

Bring up any recorded program. (You have to be watching a recorded program rather than "Live TV" in order to enable the feature.)

On your TiVo remote, key in the following sequence:

SELECT PLAY SELECT 30 SELECT
[snip]
RosettaStoned<hr></blockquote>

OMG, this is the freakin coolest thing ever. Much better than when I added Ethernet to my 130 hour series 1 Sony unit.

Nordstrodamus

03-18-2003, 02:50 PM

I have a replay, have upgraded two of them (one for my dad), and am ordering another one. I love it. I've never used a tivo, but I honestly can't think how the interface could get any simpler. Also, I really like supporting SonicBlue because they have consistently supported technologies that empower the consumer. Besides, worst case scenario If they ultimately get squashed by the copyright cartels is that they and tivo are equally hobbled.

I ordered one of the new internet enabled ones and am looking forward to being able to watch my shows on my powerbook through airport while sitting at the breakfast table (or at work).

frawgz

03-19-2003, 06:46 PM

I'd like to get a DVR, but the monthly service fee still bothers me. $250 is perhaps worth the entire price, but certainly not anything more than that, at least not in my mind.

Also, it would be nice if ReplayTV had the Rendezvous features as well. If TiVo really isn't as good as RTV, then it seems to have the upper hand on this front at the very least.

Kickaha

03-19-2003, 08:06 PM

Well, it will when it's actually implemented and available for sale. Until then, it's vapor. :)

Since ZeroConf (Rendezvous) is an open standard, and since Apple even released a pretty full ZC/R implementation via open source, I can't imagine RTV *not* getting this at some point fairly soon. They've been on the leading edge of cool stuff for PVRs, this is just one thing I see them being second on for once.

Kickaha

03-21-2003, 11:45 AM

Well, ReplayTV as we know it is gone...

According to /., Sonicblue just filed for bankruptcy and sold all their assets to Japan's D&M: Denon & Marantz. *THAT* could be interesting. Hopefully the technology will live on.

keyboardf12

03-21-2003, 12:07 PM

looks like its Replay TV who dropped the ball....:)

I'm so glad I bought a TiVO.

best PVR in the world IMO!!

Kickaha

03-21-2003, 12:27 PM

Naw, they just didn't get the herd mentality going for them, ala M$. ;)

Technologically, TiVo's been playing catchup to ReplayTV since the beginning... they grabbed the mindshare however to the point that to most people PVR == TiVo, period. Kinda like how PC == Windows to 95% of the population.

No need to further drive that point home though... ah well.

Here's to a Marantz PVR with pro level IO ports! :)

Nordstrodamus

03-21-2003, 02:38 PM

My second ReplayTV is due to arrive on Monday and I'm not worried. ReplayTV hasn't been EOL'd it's just been bought by another company.

Honestly, I don't understand the herd mentality with these units. It's not like Beta vs. VHS, it doesn't matter if everyone else uses Tivo unless I suppose network video sharing catches on big time and Tivo locks up the format.

Worst case scenario, the new company kills ReplayTV and it's online guide and in seconds a hack is available to use any of the free online guides already available on the internet (some people have already done this). I highly doubt this will happen, however.

keyboardf12

03-21-2003, 02:41 PM

my guess is that within 18 months TiVo will be absorbed into some holding company owned by sony, toshiba and some cable companies? and eventually its tech will be avaible from many vendors in some cable box fashion...

David R

04-07-2003, 02:09 PM

Finally! It was so hard not to be able to speak.

Here you go, TiVo control panel for OS X. Just use it with your Series 2 TiVo unit and the Home Media Option.

Works flawlessly including rendezvous.

http://www.tivo.com/4.9.4.1.asp

Kickaha

04-07-2003, 02:23 PM

Nice start. Now, about that codec being used... Still proprietary, so that I can't archive it to a DVD?

Does the photo/music system in TiVo Desktop integrate with iPhoto/iMusic, or is it something separate requiring multiple copies of files?

What if I want to use a central server in my home for video storage, and have it look like a S2 DVR for sharing between them? Possible or not? Doesn't look like it from the pages you provided.

These are all things I'd need before I'd consider this as a possible real solution.

Amorph

04-07-2003, 02:31 PM

And is TiVo still completely unabashed about collecting your viewing habits and mining them for marketing purposes?

As long as they're doing that, I'm not even going to look at their stuff.

David R

04-07-2003, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Kickaha
Nice start. Now, about that codec being used... Still proprietary, so that I can't archive it to a DVD?

Not for the time being due to copyright. TiVo doesn't need lawsuits at the moment. There was software created to extract the mpeg streams but tivo asked the creator to pull it and he did.

Does the photo/music system in TiVo Desktop integrate with iPhoto/iMusic, or is it something separate requiring multiple copies of files??

Integrated.

What if I want to use a central server in my home for video storage, and have it look like a S2 DVR for sharing between them? Possible or not? Doesn't look like it from the pages you provided.

You can share programs between 2 or more S2 DVRs.

Originally posted by Amorph
And is TiVo still completely unabashed about collecting your viewing habits and mining them for marketing purposes?

As long as they're doing that, I'm not even going to look at their stuff.

Call their toll-free number and opt-out. Or return the enclosed postcard. .

David R

04-07-2003, 02:44 PM

And people should be happy for TiVo providing OS X software that works, on the day of the release (as opposed to several months later, or never)

keyboardf12

04-07-2003, 02:47 PM

they only mine as an agregate...

people in california watched X
average number of shows watched X
never on a per person. "amorph watched joe millionaire" :)
etc...

TiVo has never shown themselves to be untrusty
Tivo has always shown themselves to listen to consumers
Tivo has not taken out or even complained about hacks such as the30 sec skip or upgrading harddrives.

people. the perfect company does not exist. but as far as PVR technology goes, its as close as it gets right now. your only other choices are a defunct replay tv. or a POS linux or PC hack that forces you to keep a POS pc or linux box turned on and nearby.

Its a darn digital VCR for crud sakes... (of course tivo owners know its does so much more)

its a tool for 99% CONSUMERS. not the 1% of hackies that want it to do everything under the sun (media server, burn dvds etc.) AND they want it for no monthly fee, no markingting iniformation gathered _AT ALL. AND No limitations (we all see where a box without limitations gets you, that's right bankruptcy court.)

it records shows for you and lets you access them and its content in the friendliest way out there...

it is nor will any other product out there be all things to all people.

I think their are 2 types of PVR people.

Tivo people: just want to retire to their living room after a long day of working at the computer and just want to watch record shows in an easy manner.

Replay TV people: Guys that want to hack their box and do alll sorts of everytihng with it.

Neither group is right or wrong. Its just one product will never be all things to all people.

Tivo changed the way i watch TV. I watch it on my terms now. I would never go back.

--------------------
PS. I am pretty sure the tivo home media edition will let you watch content from one tivo in another room with another tivo BTW

Kickaha

04-07-2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by David R
Not for the time being due to copyright. TiVo doesn't need lawsuits at the moment. There was software created to extract the mpeg streams but tivo asked the creator to pull it and he did.

...
You can share programs between 2 or more S2 DVRs.

Well that right there blows it for me then. :/ As long as I'm locked into having to watch the shows *on TiVo equipment only*, then fuggedaboudit. That makes as much sense to me as buying a Sony VCR only to find that you can't watch the shows on anything but a Sony TV, and listen to the audio on anything but Sony stereos with Sony speakers.

Specifically on the second part I asked about sharing between an S2 DVR and a MacOS X machine that *looks* like an S2 DVR, but apparently it's all controlled by the mothership (check out the need for multiple licenses for multiple boxen to allow sharing), so that's a no go.

I'd want to shuttle the shows off to the 258GB of storage I have on the home server, and free up space on the TiVo, but apparently that's not going to happen due to *cough* 'copyright issues'. (Fair use anyone?)

Integrated.

Excellent to hear.

Now if the others were taken care of, I might consider one. As it was, if I'd had the cash, I would have purchased a ReplayTV months ago.

I'm not Joe Sixpack. I won't give up fair use for a little convenience that is strictly a luxury item.

keyboardf12

04-07-2003, 04:28 PM

> I'm not Joe Sixpack. I won't give up fair use for a little convenience that is strictly a luxury item.

then dump it to your VCR...

I believe you can do that.

fair use; problem solved.

off topic; to those that want to archive stuff to dvd. have you even considered what the quality of it would be? take a look at any first run show nowadays:

humungous and garish animated banner ads taking up 20% of the screen
end credits squished to the right half of the screen while some reporter gives you the "news"
commericals

to much junk layered on top of content to make it archivable IMO...

maybe for a sports game. but for most everything else I buy the dvds...

of course someone will now say "but my show is not on dvd"

fine...

David R

04-07-2003, 06:04 PM

Or play it through your computer, record it and dump it on DVD. There are ways to get around it, it's just not built into the system.

I couldn't live without my TiVo. I cannot imagine not having one.

If the lack of a built-in way to burni to DVD/export the video is the reason why people don't want a unit, then maybe they don't NEED a TiVo - after all it does oh so much more.

Kickaha

04-07-2003, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by David R
Or play it through your computer, record it and dump it on DVD. There are ways to get around it, it's just not built into the system.

But that's not what you said earlier... you specifically said that sharing was enabled between two S2 DVRs. Period. The TiVo website seems to allude this is the case as well.

In which case, could you please tell me how to play it through the computer? If in fact you *can* do this as well as moving the files to/from the server, *then* I would consider it a possible purchase. Until then, it's still missing features that I consider basic for media management.

Oh wait - you mean go out and buy a second digital video encoder for just the computer to play into for re-encoding. Well jeez, if I had that, what the heck would I need the TiVo for? To take up space in my entertainment center? :no:

Amorph

04-07-2003, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by David R
Call their toll-free number and opt-out. Or return the enclosed postcard. .

Spammer logic. :no:

I opt in or the company does not, at any level, have my interests at heart and they don't get my business.

And of course they only mine data "in aggregate." That's what data mining means. It's treating my information as a profitable commodity that they get from me by default, for free. Bah.

Still no sale.

David R

04-07-2003, 07:02 PM

Exactly, you can hook up the video out to an encoder card.

I'm afraid that that you are missing the point of what TiVo is really all about. It's not about exporting video, it's about controlling what you watch, when you watch it, how you watch it and knowing what's on.

keyboardf12

04-07-2003, 07:27 PM

Hi amorph.

please don't take this the wrong way i am not not trying to be mean but have you:

if you use supermarket discount cards have you opted out of them?

have you called, written, opted out and confirmed with all your credit cards that you have opted out of their marketing schemes and confiirmed that they are not going to sell your information?

have you confirmed with your health ins company that you have opted out so they do not sell private information of yours to specfic drug companies?

if you bought a car recently have you opted out with ford? volkswagon etc.
have you opted out of all the web sites you have given your email address to?

have you opted out of all marketing from apple co.?

have you stopped borrowing books from public libraries?

if you own a house have you confirmed with your mortgage co. to opt you out of all there marketing?

recently married? have you made sure all your wedding services did not put you on a special marriage mailing list?

if you bought anything with a credit card at any number of dept stores did you first ask the manager and confirm that you were not going to be "opted" in with this purchase?

what about any related companies or subsidaries to that company?

my point is that most companies have the same policy as tivo yet it seems tivo are being treated differently. if you not going to do business with a company that resells your information in some form then you are not going to be doing much business, either at all or without the hassles of opting out and confirming taking up a lot of your day.

there are 1000's a companies that have not publicly stated their privacy policies and you and i are probably doing business with them right now.

:???:

I'm with you on privacy and its importance but all i'm saying Tivo does have the potencial to do bad things with very private informatiom but in reality they have publically stated that they won't between that and a simple opt out policy i don't know what else a person could ask for...

:)

Kickaha

04-07-2003, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by David R
Exactly, you can hook up the video out to an encoder card.

I'm afraid that that you are missing the point of what TiVo is really all about. It's not about exporting video, it's about controlling what you watch, when you watch it, how you watch it and knowing what's on.

Well, as long as it's on TiVo hardware. With a TiVo account. For each unit. That's certainly control, alright. Just not mine.

That's not choice, that's a lock-down. Just because they've loosened the chain a few links doesn't mean that shackle isn't still there... heck, their entire business model is based on it. They're *terrified* that you might be able to move your (note I say *your*) video files, from broadcast TV, to another media. Bollocks. It's no better than copy-protected CDs that won't work in CD-ROMs.

Sorry, TiVo is, while getting better, still lacking in several features I consider just plain basic and trivial, and seems to have no inclination to add them. It's too bad that once again marketing outdid product. Ah well.

The vast majority of the services TiVo provides for scheduling can be found elsewhere, for free, and used with a computer based encoder card PVR. I know, a buddy of mine has such a setup, and frankly, I haven't seen much difference between it and a TiVo Series 1, it's just that slick. Downside - he has a noisy PC in his entertainment center, and it isn't as nicely integrated as the S2 looks to be, plus, the PVR card set him back more than a low-end TiVo would have. (Tis nice though.)

I'll wait with my cash for a system that actually has a clue for what I see as necessary. Obviously other folks disagree, and they're free to do with their cash what they will. If TiVo fits your bill, go for it. I'll pass, it doesn't fit my needs or ideas of what the product could or should be. It's getting there in baby steps, but just not fast enough.

keyboardf12

04-07-2003, 09:57 PM

>hey're *terrified* that you might be able to move your (note I say *your*) video files,

..."Yours"??

You own the copyright of the episode of "Friends" on that hard drive?
You own the copyright of the episode of "ER" on that hard drive?
You own the copyright of the episode of "The Sopranos" on that hard drive?

:err:

So what you are saying is, since you "own" them, that you could resell "your videos" on the street corner and not be arrested?

No, what the Supreme Court has said is that you have a right to fairly use/watch the above programs in a time shifted manner...

>several feature I consider just plain basic and trivial,

One man's plain, basic and trivial is another man's business model that steers clear of legal gray areas or even the appearance of a gray legal area so as to not get their company sued into the stone age!

What you are describing is exaclty what bought replay tv a one way ticket to bankruptcy...

Kickaha, i really do think you fall into the a group tivo is not catering too. Buy yourself a ATI all in wonder, a pc and some software and plant it in your living room and it should be able to do everything you described...

Kickaha

04-07-2003, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by keyboardf12
>hey're *terrified* that you might be able to move your (note I say *your*) video files,

..."Yours"??

You own the copyright of the episode of "Friends" on that hard drive?
You own the copyright of the episode of "ER" on that hard drive?
You own the copyright of the episode of "The Sopranos" on that hard drive?

:err:

So what you are saying is, since you "own" them, that you could resell "your videos" on the street corner and not be arrested?

No, what the Supreme Court has said is that you have a right to fairly use/watch the above programs in a time shifted manner...

Yes, and they have never, in any way shape or form, stated that you can *NOT* move that time shifted information to another media, despite all the whinings and FUD of the MPAA/RIAA/networks. Stop setting up inane strawman arguments.

Until they state otherwise, I'll choose to make sure that any product I buy allows me to choose where I watch, where I listen to, and where I use the data that was sent to me without contract. THAT is fair use. Not copy protected CDs, not proprietary video formats.

Why is it that MS is bad for locking users into the Word data format, but TiVo is just spiffy? I just don't get it.

>several feature I consider just plain basic and trivial,

One man's plain, basic and trivial is another man's business model that steers clear of legal gray areas or even the appearance of a gray legal area so as to not get their company sued into the stone age!

What you are describing is exaclty what bought replay tv a one way ticket to bankruptcy...

So I as a consumer should give my cash to a business hell bent on catering to special interest groups that are determined to reduce my rights as a consumer? Balderdash. I refuse to be treated like a criminal for exercising my legal rights.

TiVo, the company, isn't any better than MS in my book. They have a product that is *just* good enough, that ensures that it doesn't step on any big money's toes, and couldn't care less about the consumer using it. Bleah.

Obviously though, Windows has a lot of users. As does TiVo. I choose to use neither.

Kickaha, i really do think you fall into the a group tivo is not catering too. Buy yourself a ATI all in wonder, a pc and some software and plant it in your living room and it should be able to do everything you described...

I think we've established that I don't fit their market. Their loss, not mine.

I'll bow out of this, and let the discussion of TiVo Desktop continue. Looks like a nice bit of added features for those who own one, just not enough to make me consider buying one.