New Powermacs Aug 13th? (thinksecret) [Archive]

The All Knowing 1

07-12-2002, 03:03 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Kecksy:
If there is a 20GB iPod, would Apple discontinue the 5GB model. I'd think they'd just keep it and drop the price $100. Don't you think a $300 iPod would sell VERY well.<hr></blockquote>

It depends on the profit margins. I would be very pissed to see the 5GB model go away, as yes, a ton of people would be swayed into it if it were 100 dollars cheaper.

However, what really irks me is the mention that the new iPods will be able to play AAC encoded audio. Good news...but if Apple doesn't release firmware updates to the Gen 1 iPods to allow them to play AAC I will flip. I paid 399 for my 5GB iPod just in January, and in July it can't play the codec that Apple is pushing? That would be poor and I would write a few scathing letters about it. This would be equivalent to Apple releasing new Powermacs and then saying that Jaguar will only run on them, no older hardware.

So what would please me would be: 5, 10, 20 GB iPods at 299,399,499, coinciding with the release of iPod Software 1.2/1.5/2.0 (whatever they would call it) with AAC support, etc.

Kecksy

07-12-2002, 03:13 AM

I'm sure Apple will release a firmware update that would allow AAC to work on all iPods.

The iPod was designed so its capabilities could be upgraded through software.

Why do you think it comes with dual Strong ARM processors? Apple wants to make sure the iPod will have enough "umph" to play any new media format that comes along in the next couple years.

They're not going to screw early adopters by making them buy new iPods. The iPod was designed so you'd only have to updgrade if you need more disk space.

hotboxd

07-12-2002, 06:48 AM

Reducing the price by $100 would nicely undercut that iPod rippoff that Toshiba just released. Now Apple just needs to release a Windows iTunes and an on-cord remote with updated earphones and the iPod would be a perfect product.

ihxo

07-12-2002, 07:22 AM

after reading the 20GB ipod rumor I could really start to feel the apple's reality distortion field. why would apple reduce the current 10GB iPod by 100 dollars after like less than half a year of introduction !? I think apple is really going all out to spread false rumors 1 week before the Expo.

Matsu

07-12-2002, 07:41 AM

Apple does nothng to spread false rumors, we do that all by ourselves.

Thai Moof

07-12-2002, 07:46 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
Apple does nothng to spread false rumors, we do that all by ourselves.<hr></blockquote>

LOL. Touche, Matsu!

ihxo

07-12-2002, 07:49 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
Apple does nothng to spread false rumors, we do that all by ourselves.<hr></blockquote>

LoL ....

spotbug

07-12-2002, 08:34 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Kecksy:
Their “sources” more often than not are just the other rumor sites. :rolleyes: <hr></blockquote>

I think, most often, their "sources" are themselves.

BrunoBruin

07-12-2002, 12:52 PM

WOW! "Speed-bumps of at least 1.2GHz"?! That means the G4 is going to jump all the way to 2.2! That ought to silence some critics! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

Maybe he meant speed-bumps TO 1.2GHz...

Jeff Leigh

07-12-2002, 01:05 PM

My opinion of Think Secret is getting lower each day. Their 'justification' for a special event on Aug. 13th is pretty lame. Would Apple really discontinue a promotion on the 12th, have a special event on the 13th and then not have the machines available right away? I don't think so. There is too much demand for these faster machines to pull a stunt like that.

murbot

07-12-2002, 01:08 PM

I thought the same thing after reading that, BrunoBruin. That is going to be one seriously fast PowerMac. ;)

JCG

07-12-2002, 01:10 PM

[quote]Originally posted by apple.otaku:
Maybe the new G4s are significant enough to warrant a special event. If that is the case I'll be happy if they don't announce them at MacWorld.<hr></blockquote>

The more sugnificant the anouncement, the more likely that they would anounce it at Macwourld. After all, they are their premier Events throughout the year. If they are not anounced at MWNY, then we will probably just get a modest speed bump.

rok

07-12-2002, 01:24 PM

i don't know how much the market will withstand, but i just don't NEED a 20 GB ipod. i don't know if anyone else feels this way, but i think the 10 gb is a sweet spot right now.

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: rok ]

LudwigVan

07-12-2002, 02:12 PM

AaronS

07-12-2002, 02:36 PM

Think Secret says that one of the "obvious" reasons that there will be no new PowerMacs is because of the new "Crystal Clear Savings" promotion Apple just started.

From MacMinute
[quote]
Apple offers new printer promotion
July 12 - 13:55 ET**Apple has launched a new Hot Deal promotion that offers a free Epson photo printer with the purchase of any iMac, eMac, or iBook. The "Print and Save" promotion offers a free Epson Stylus 820 printer or a US$100 rebate on any Epson Stylus Photo printer with a $100 suggested retail price or higher. The offer expires September 30, 2002.

<hr></blockquote>

Does this mean that there will be no updates in the iMac either since it is included in the promotion?

I think using the promotion as their obvious reason for there not being new PowerMacs is a poor choice on their part.

Holding out hope for new PowerMacs at MWNY.

_aarons

Blizaine

07-12-2002, 02:44 PM

[quote]Originally posted by rok:
i don't know how much the market will withstand, but i just don't NEED a 20 GB ipod. i don't know if anyone else feels this way, but i think the 10 gb is a sweet spot right now.

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: rok ]<hr></blockquote>

nothin like having 4,000 songs in your pocket <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Lets see: 160Kbps = 20KB a second. So 20GB divided by 20KB/sec = 1,000,000 seconds, which = 16,667 minutes, which = 227.78 Hours, which = 11.57 Days straight without repeating a song. Wow! That’s crazy! (BTW: if you encode your music at 128Kbps you could squeeze in about 14.5 days) ;)

Sorry if my math is off. My native language is caveman and we don’t have numbers.

KidRed

07-12-2002, 02:56 PM

Keep in mind TS confirmed a few days ago that the new towers would be in speeds "excess of" 1.2ghz, now today they are confirming speeds of at least 1.2ghz. So which is the real confirmation? Why does the new confirmation conflict with the old confirmation? Do they have confirmation that this new confirmation is really confirmed?

Sounds like it can be confirmed that TS is BS.

BrunoBruin

07-12-2002, 02:58 PM

[quote]i don't know how much the market will withstand, but i just don't NEED a 20 GB ipod.<hr></blockquote>

I've only filled about 1.5GB on mine. It gets more use as a FireWire drive than an MP3 player. :(

Then again, it wasn't that long ago that we all thought 250MB hard drives were bigger than we could possibly use.

apple.otaku

07-12-2002, 03:14 PM

Amorph

07-12-2002, 03:21 PM

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
Keep in mind TS confirmed a few days ago that the new towers would be in speeds "excess of" 1.2ghz, now today they are confirming speeds of at least 1.2ghz. So which is the real confirmation?<hr></blockquote>

Where is the contradiction? Anything that's at least 1.2GHz is likely to be in excess of 1.2GHz, as I reckon things. :) The only difference is the boundary case at exactly 1.2GHz, and that seems more like a niggling vaguery in the language than a logical inconsistency.

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]

KidRed

07-12-2002, 04:05 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:


Where is the contradiction? Anything that's at least 1.2GHz is likely to be in excess of 1.2GHz, as I reckon things. :) The only difference is the boundary case at exactly 1.2GHz, and that seems more like a niggling vaguery in the language than a logical inconsistency.

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]<hr></blockquote>

Well, first they confirmed all towers would be in excess of 1.2ghz, read-every tower faster then 1.2ghz. Now they are confirming that all towers will at least be 1.2ghz, read- 1.2ghz as the top end.

Both being confirmed, that's where I perceive the contradiction to be.

Blizaine

07-12-2002, 04:18 PM

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:


Well, first they confirmed all towers would be in excess of 1.2ghz, read-every tower faster then 1.2ghz. Now they are confirming that all towers will at least be 1.2ghz, read- 1.2ghz as the top end.

Both being confirmed, that's where I perceive the contradiction to be.<hr></blockquote>

I think what Amorph was saying is that if a chip is in excess of 1.2Ghz it IS at least 1.2Ghz.

I do see the contradiction though... They are just making sure they’re right... "I predict we will either have chips less than 1.2Ghz or more than 1.2Ghz"

Capt. Obvious

07-12-2002, 04:32 PM

canyon24

07-12-2002, 05:40 PM

Ok boys,

I know that the thought of new PowerMacs is exciting, but the reason that the rumors are so contradictory, and diverse is because that is what Steve wants. There WILL be new powermacs, at the show. Announced on Wednesday, by Steve. Here is the catch...

The new powermacs will be G4 (1Ghz, 1.2Ghz, and 1.4Ghz, with the 867Mhz available for education cheap.) ALL will be available build to order DUAL processors. There have been some changes to the motherboard, including the bus(es). And of course the new case, as I have describe in another forum.

But the real exciting part: the new powermacs will be a MINOR announcement on Wednesday. Steve will be talking about something HUGE, really really BIG.

This will literally revolutionize computers, and the way we use them. (no not a new keyboard or a mouse).

noleli

07-12-2002, 05:53 PM

"This will literally revolutionize computers, and the way we use them. (no not a new keyboard or a mouse)."

So it's an InkWell tablet. At least that seems like what you're hinting.

phobos

07-12-2002, 05:53 PM

so this rtevolutionary anounencement will be held at august 13? Or at MWNY?
I really hope you are right.I really hope so.
Can you be more specific at what is gonna be so revolutionary.New kind of computer.Holograms?WHAT????
If it's gonna be a new computer why announce the G4 models?So I bet it's something that connects to a computer.A peripheral.What's so exciting with a peripheral.
I hope you are right.But I doubt it...

phobos

07-12-2002, 05:55 PM

What so revolutionary with Inkwell?????????????
If you are implying inkwell than I guess you have to check on your dictionary the word revolution

Cubit

07-12-2002, 06:03 PM

[quote]Originally posted by canyon24:
Ok boys,

I know that the thought of new PowerMacs is exciting, but the reason that the rumors are so contradictory, and diverse is because that is what Steve wants. There WILL be new powermacs, at the show. Announced on Wednesday, by Steve. Here is the catch...

The new powermacs will be G4 (1Ghz, 1.2Ghz, and 1.4Ghz, with the 867Mhz available for education cheap.) ALL will be available build to order DUAL processors. There have been some changes to the motherboard, including the bus(es). And of course the new case, as I have describe in another forum.

But the real exciting part: the new powermacs will be a MINOR announcement on Wednesday. Steve will be talking about something HUGE, really really BIG.

This will literally revolutionize computers, and the way we use them. (no not a new keyboard or a mouse).<hr></blockquote>

;) Well, I guess Canyon24 clinches it. Nothing is going to happen Wednesday, and I'm evengoing to be there at the Keynote! Anybody else? Apple IS going to open their new SoHo store at 8 AM on 7/18, so maybe I'll just stroll over from the MacWorld and line up for my free tee right after Steve gives us One More Thing–iClone! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

johnsonwax

07-12-2002, 06:09 PM

[quote]Originally posted by canyon24:
Steve will be talking about something HUGE, really really BIG.

This will literally revolutionize computers, and the way we use them.<hr></blockquote>

I'm guessing there will be an out-of-work dot.commer inside of every new Powermac. The cases will be HUGE, really really BIG.

Revolutionary - hell yes. It'll do things no Windows based PC can do - finally deliver on the promise of natural task computing: "When is my appointment with Bill", "Go get me some porn - no, better porn - yeah, that's more like it." Game AI has never been stronger. Voice recognition like never before, and the best text-to-speech on the market.

Here's my predicted lineup:

All systems ship with Xserve DDR.

1.0 GHz G4, combo drive, 40GB HD, web designer w/JavaScript and ASP experience: $1699.

1.2 GHz G4, Superdrive, 60GB HD, web application developer w/Oracle and Java experience: $2199.

1.4 GHz G4, Superdrive, 2x80GB HD, network engineer w/Cisco certification: $2799.

But seriously, thanks for the straight-up post.

Bigc

07-12-2002, 06:14 PM

20 gb iPod will be fine for me if it has a way to download my camera pictures to it when I'm on the road rather than starting up my TiBook ( which is hard to carry up into the mountains)

Bigc

07-12-2002, 06:29 PM

[quote]Originally posted by canyon24:
Ok boys,

I know that the thought of new PowerMacs is exciting, but the reason that the rumors are so contradictory, and diverse is because that is what Steve wants. There WILL be new powermacs, at the show. Announced on Wednesday, by Steve. Here is the catch...

The new powermacs will be G4 (1Ghz, 1.2Ghz, and 1.4Ghz, with the 867Mhz available for education cheap.) ALL will be available build to order DUAL processors. There have been some changes to the motherboard, including the bus(es). And of course the new case, as I have describe in another forum.

But the real exciting part: the new powermacs will be a MINOR announcement on Wednesday. Steve will be talking about something HUGE, really really BIG.

This will literally revolutionize computers, and the way we use them. (no not a new keyboard or a mouse).<hr></blockquote>

This got anything to do with the REALLY BIG stuff

<a href="http://www.elgato.com/eye.html" target="_blank">http://www.elgato.com/eye.html</a>

BrunoBruin

07-12-2002, 06:35 PM

[quote]'m guessing there will be an out-of-work dot.commer inside of every new Powermac. The cases will be HUGE, really really BIG.

Revolutionary - hell yes. It'll do things no Windows based PC can do - finally deliver on the promise of natural task computing: "When is my appointment with Bill", "Go get me some porn - no, better porn - yeah, that's more like it." Game AI has never been stronger. Voice recognition like never before, and the best text-to-speech on the market.<hr></blockquote>

That is the single funniest thing I have read in this forum. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

canyon24

07-12-2002, 07:44 PM

[quote]Originally posted by noleli:
"This will literally revolutionize computers, and the way we use them. (no not a new keyboard or a mouse)."

So it's an InkWell tablet. At least that seems like what you're hinting.<hr></blockquote>

NO NO NO NO !!!!!

It is not a peripheral or a computer, it's a whole new perspective on using computers. Manipulating Photoshop files is NOTHING, child's play. Real time editing digital video is so DONE.

Inkwell tablet, GIVE ME A BREAK!

canyon24

07-12-2002, 08:02 PM

[quote]Originally posted by phobos:
so this rtevolutionary anounencement will be held at august 13? Or at MWNY?
I really hope you are right.I really hope so.
Can you be more specific at what is gonna be so revolutionary.New kind of computer.Holograms?WHAT????
If it's gonna be a new computer why announce the G4 models?So I bet it's something that connects to a computer.A peripheral.What's so exciting with a peripheral.
I hope you are right.But I doubt it...<hr></blockquote>

I am talking about Wednesday. at MWNY!

Holograms?? What? Come on! We know that the government has been using them for years to hide alien bases. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

Believe me or don't I don't care. This is just too exciting to keep secret. Think .MAC, as a certain site has mentioned. too bad they don't know a tenth of what we are planning. You have of course seen and heard about Micros$%!'s .NET strategy? Well strip out all the bullshit, and you have a basically (gulp) good plan regarding ubiquitous computing. Your e-mail, applications, calendar, data, etc. (AND MORE) all available through a system more secure than your average desktop system. iTools was just the beginning.

The basic story starts here:

The first phase of the information age is over. That first phase consisted of radicl expansion of storage, and processing of information. Raw, data. Think about how much crap you have sitting on your hard drive. photos, letters, e-mail, videos, etc. This stuff would have just b een sitting around your house in boxes, all over the place. To be able to store it and organize it on your pc is revolutionary.

We are now entering the second golden age of the information age. Now that (for the most part) everyone has computers, and a whole mess of data stored on them, what do you do with it? How does it make your life easier? Today we work almost twice as much, and as hard doing twice as many things, as we did in say, 1950. Is that because of computers (good or bad) or in spite of them?
<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

What Steve will be talking about is a new philosophy on the computer's place in our society, and how to move it from another thing in our homes, to a tool we use without even thinking about it, and using it to do things that actually do what computers were intended to do in the first place! - Make life easier by taking all the crappy annoying things and just doing them for us.

Trust me, you won't want to miss Steve's keynote. Tell your friends, tell their friends, tell your parent, tell your kids, tell your freaking grandma!

:eek:

Blizaine

07-12-2002, 08:03 PM

[quote]Originally posted by canyon24:


NO NO NO NO !!!!!

It is not a peripheral or a computer, it's a whole new perspective on using computers. Manipulating Photoshop files is NOTHING, child's play. Real time editing digital video is so DONE.

Inkwell tablet, GIVE ME A BREAK!<hr></blockquote>

weeeee.... canyon has made these forums fun to read again. Even if her info is a load of dung... It's still fun... (btw: Canyon, I don't think you are full of dung) ;)

I can believe the second processor BTO thing... apple has done it before.

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Blizaine ]

johnsonwax

07-12-2002, 08:07 PM

[quote]Originally posted by canyon24:It is not a peripheral or a computer, it's a whole new perspective on using computers.<hr></blockquote>

Ok, I'm calling you on this.

Here's <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002053" target="_blank">my take</a> on your hints along with other things presented here, and what I think Apple is capable of and interested in doing.

johnsonwax

07-12-2002, 08:22 PM

[quote]Originally posted by canyon24:

What Steve will be talking about is a new philosophy on the computer's place in our society, and how to move it from another thing in our homes, to a tool we use without even thinking about it, and using it to do things that actually do what computers were intended to do in the first place!<hr></blockquote>

But this has been a progressive strategy at Apple already which started, of course, with iTools. The first tip was having your iDisk mount on your HD, then X hooks pretty seamlessly to your mac.com account. iPhoto then hooks in nicely. And your iDisk clearly parallels your home directory structure. Apple provides the ability to log into an OS X Server so that you can do all your storage remotely and have everything carry from workstation to workstation. In Jag we see storage controls and sharing features through your iTools account.

None of this is new (at least to me). iChat clearly will hook in, as will Rendezvous. So this will only continue on. But... so far, no 3rd parties have been participating in this. Further, due to small storage allocation from Apple (yes, you can buy more, and yes, it's very expensive) you can't do much with photo storage, movies, and iTools only works as a server - not as a conduit, so I can't stream content through my iTools account.

Solve these problems and open up APIs to 3rd parties and then we're getting somewhere. It's easy to underestimate the scale of this challenge, however.

sCreeD

07-12-2002, 08:29 PM

[snip]

I'm all for enthusiasm but the setup for disappointment is growing.

Screed ...canyon24 = kormac7x with better diction

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]

Moonraker

07-12-2002, 08:38 PM

You like the idea of this:

<a href="http://www.apple.mac" target="_blank">www.apple.mac</a>

.MAC, and so much more.

I already have moonraker.mac lined up ;)

Blizaine

07-12-2002, 08:40 PM

[quote]Originally posted by sCreeD:
[snip]

I'm all for enthusiasm but the setup for disappointment is growing.

Screed ...canyon24 = kormac7x with better diction

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: sCreeD ]<hr></blockquote>

:( I want BTO duals on all levels :(

KidRed

07-12-2002, 09:03 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Capt. Obvious:


Actually, read that second one as "at least 1.2gHz for the low-end"...not the top-end.<hr></blockquote>

Good catch, i meant 'up to' not at least.

canyon24

07-12-2002, 09:13 PM

[quote]Originally posted by johnsonwax:


Ok, I'm calling you on this.

Here's <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002053" target="_blank">my take</a> on your hints along with other things presented here, and what I think Apple is capable of and interested in doing.<hr></blockquote>

You just might have a piece of the puzzle. Too bad ou don't. We have had tv on the mac for years now. My old PM8600 had composite in, and I could record direct to my HD. So, while obvious improvements have been made, and the Eye TV is an awesome product (I worked with them on it briefly) it is not an Apple directive. A set top box is not the direction Steve has focused the company. While we have, and will continue to work with other developing such devices, and implementing QT standards for streaming, recording, and live videocasting ( Hi Grandma!) Apple has no plans or intentions to develop a set top box, at least as anyone has described it.

Amorph

07-12-2002, 09:17 PM

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:


Well, first they confirmed all towers would be in excess of 1.2ghz, read-every tower faster then 1.2ghz. Now they are confirming that all towers will at least be 1.2ghz, read- 1.2ghz as the top end.<hr></blockquote>

Huh?

"At least 1.2GHz" means 1.2GHz is the low end (rephrase: 1.2GHz at the least, meaning that every other possibility is more than 1.2GHz). "At most 1.2GHz" would mean it's the top end.

If you think something will take at least 3 days to process, do you expect it to take up to 3 days?

[ 07-12-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]

TigerWoods99

07-12-2002, 09:34 PM

ThinkSecret is full of $h!t.

craig12co

07-13-2002, 01:07 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Blizaine:


:( I want BTO duals on all levels :( <hr></blockquote>

amen to that!!!!! i would have a new pmg4 already if the DP was BTO across the line. its horrible that Apple stopped doing it. bring it back steve.

meme for me

07-13-2002, 01:40 AM

[quote]Originally posted by canyon24:


What Steve will be talking about is a new philosophy on the computer's place in our society, and how to move it from another thing in our homes, to a tool we use without even thinking about it, and using it to do things that actually do what computers were intended to do in the first place! - Make life easier by taking all the crappy annoying things and just doing them for us.

Trust me, you won't want to miss Steve's keynote. Tell your friends, tell their friends, tell your parent, tell your kids, tell your freaking grandma!

:eek: <hr></blockquote>

It's Reality Distortion Field Implants for everyone! iBorg for the masses! Hooray!

Canyon wants everyone to go to the keynote because we're on to Steve and the first iBorg Implants will be lurking under the audiences' seats. Look out Microsoft! We're gonna be lurching slowly at ya! :mad: <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Ok, that's silly. Anyone up for network meshes, a pile of web services, and a secure way to access your desktop harddrive from anywhere? :)

Barto

07-13-2002, 10:14 PM

[quote]Originally posted by meme for me:


It's Reality Distortion Field Implants for everyone! iBorg for the masses! Hooray!

<hr></blockquote>

I'll take two!

Barto

The All Knowing 1

07-13-2002, 10:23 PM

[quote]Originally posted by meme for me:

a secure way to access your desktop harddrive from anywhere? <hr></blockquote>

SSH?

You'd be surprised how useful that guy is...

And I dunno about you...I already have my iBorg implant...what's that Steve? Don't tell them about the new G5s? ;)

shetline

07-13-2002, 10:30 PM

[quote]Originally posted by meme for me:
It's Reality Distortion Field Implants for everyone! iBorg for the masses! Hooray!<hr></blockquote>

If your personal RDF and my personal RDF overlap, do the fields reinforce or cancel out?

Inquiring minds need to know. :D

Jeff Leigh

07-15-2002, 01:19 PM

[quote]Originally posted by shetline:

If your personal RDF and my personal RDF overlap, do the fields reinforce or cancel out?

Inquiring minds need to know. :D <hr></blockquote>

Of course they would have to double in intensity. Otherwise you could use other people's RDFs to cancel each other out and figure out what was really going on. Steve would never allow that!!! :)

Pixelcolors

07-15-2002, 02:56 PM

Maybe Hi-def tv on the mac - why the big deal about the "hi-def" monitor? Or is that just hype for people who don't really know much? Lots of monitors have the resolution to display hi-def - not just the "hi-def" flat panel display... Who knows?

FlashGordon

07-15-2002, 03:49 PM

I wish people would bitch more about DDR memory and and faster bus than this testosterone fueled mhz crap. The duel processors are plenty fast and unless DDR and bus are jacked up a 10ghz G4 would still suck. In fact I will start a post about it.

Brendon

07-15-2002, 06:44 PM

[quote]Originally posted by canyon24:


NO NO NO NO !!!!!

It is not a peripheral or a computer, it's a whole new perspective on using computers. Manipulating Photoshop files is NOTHING, child's play. Real time editing digital video is so DONE.

Inkwell tablet, GIVE ME A BREAK!<hr></blockquote>

Cool!!! We finally get the IMAX GUI that I have been wishing for and 3D glasses with the Apple 3D cinema displays or just use the new Apple brand headsets for the real 3D affect!! :D

Masker

07-19-2002, 04:12 PM

Bump....

Sorry.. i just got a kick out of reading everyone's pre-MacWorld thoughts about no tower announcement....

MSKR

Bodhi

07-19-2002, 05:23 PM

[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
ThinkSecret is full of $h!t.<hr></blockquote>

Still think so??

Cubit

07-19-2002, 05:48 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:


Still think so??<hr></blockquote>

Well Bodhi, at least YOU got everything right. There are posts today! I dropped by the SoHo apple store yesterday morning and had a ball. Steve J was there, quietly sitting in conversation. How different from Bill G who would have had a phalanx of MIB around him. Wierdest thing was that nobody went up to him, me included, to ask when the new PowerMacs were coming....

Lemon Bon Bon

07-19-2002, 06:19 PM

"IMG: What kind of work has Apple been doing on OpenGL?

CB: Apple is easily the most active computer vendor working on OpenGL. They are doing more of the heavy lifting to advance OpenGL than anyone else. They spent all year working with NVIDIA and ATI to define a unified shader extension. They basically put a stake in the ground and got both companies to work towards it. They chaired the OpenGL working group on the vertex shaders, and they've been very influential. So they're completely engaged in that."

This is software. But it's intriguing that Apple have been working so closely with Ati and Nvidia on this.

Gives credence to a 'power'Mac/Apple/Nvidia announcement soon...

It gives a clue to their future plans for hardware. ie they are the ones doing the 'heavy lifting' on Open Gl now. Obviously they don't want M$ cornering the market on the 3D api.

It seems to indicate that Apple want to dominate Open GL or at least have a strong influence in a non M$ api.

That would fall in line with recent high end/workstation purchases. And while they haven't bought Maya or Xsi yet...it shows they are serious about 3D. And keeping Mac/Apple options open.

If they're taken Open GL that serious...why not buy Sgi tech' eg Maya/Open GL and be done with it.

Do we know what implementation of Gl that Jaguar will use?

Now. All we need is for the next gen' processor to be revealed.

'G5' anyone?

Lemon Bon Bon

Fat Freddy

07-19-2002, 06:28 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Masker:
Adios G3 iMacs; G4 towers August 13

<a href="http://www.thinksecret.com" target="_blank">Think Secret</a>

I guess that inventory has to be moved after all. Seems like they would just have a fire sale instead of delaying a MWNY -worthy announcement of PowerMacs ready in one month.

MSKR<hr></blockquote>

If its true, whats about the 5th Generation of PPC?
At MWSF, 18 Weeks later?
I don´t think.
I hope for new Power Macs (G5) in September at Seybold.
DDR Powerbooks at MW Paris
DDR iMacs at MWSF
DDR G4 iBooks at MWT

MacRonin

07-19-2002, 06:45 PM

ARGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

People, there is NO MacWorld Paris!!!

It is called Apple Expo Paris...

And while I am here...

HEY STEVE!!

When are we gonna get a PowerMac that is ready to run all this software you have been scarfing up as of late...?!?

AND PLEASE! PLEASE GO OUT AND PURCHASE MAYA FROM ALIAS|WAVEFRONT!!!

All I want is a quad G5 with about 8GB of DDR RAM (more would be nice...), a killer OpenGL card supporting dual HD ACDs, and the new Apple Production Studio-In-A-Box bundle... (Maya Unlimited, RenderMan, Final Cut Pro, Shake/RayZ, DVD Studio Pro, Logic)

Is that really asking to much...?!?

Bodhi

07-19-2002, 06:49 PM

Too late. MS already bought most of what SGI owned of OpenGL.

shannyla

07-19-2002, 06:55 PM

[quote] AND PLEASE! PLEASE GO OUT AND PURCHASE MAYA FROM ALIAS|WAVEFRONT!!! <hr></blockquote>

...because we'd really like you to destroy the reputation and utility of the most important piece of software in 3d CGI production right now, like you've done with Shake and Rayz, by making us run it on your truely pathetic hardware...

And if you're really happy with your new iMac and you don't really know what I'm talking about, don't bother flaming me for trolling as this is a legitimate grievance with Apple over their recent purchases, plus you'll look like a tit to anyone who does know what I'm talking about.

shannyla

07-19-2002, 06:57 PM

[quote] All I want is a quad G5 with about 8GB of DDR RAM (more would be nice...), a killer OpenGL card supporting dual HD ACDs, and the new Apple Production Studio-In-A-Box bundle... (Maya Unlimited, RenderMan, Final Cut Pro, Shake/RayZ, DVD Studio Pro, Logic) <hr></blockquote>

Were this in any way likely or even possible, I'd be standing beside you cheering. No, scratch that, I'd already be filling out the comedy oversize check with many zeros at the end of it. I'm not...

Ptrash

07-19-2002, 07:42 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Cubit:
 I dropped by the SoHo apple store yesterday morning and had a ball. Steve J was there, quietly sitting in conversation. How different from Bill G who would have had a phalanx of MIB around him. Wierdest thing was that nobody went up to him, me included, to ask when the new PowerMacs were coming....<hr></blockquote>

Good God man, how could you not ask? You should be thrown off this board for that oversight!

I guess there is something to that RDF business. Better yet, Jobs probably practices some form of mind control. The entire time he was in the store he was sending out psychic messages,"Don't ask me about new PowerMacs or the G5."

Blizaine

07-19-2002, 08:00 PM

[quote]Originally posted by shannyla:


And if you're really happy with your new iMac and you don't really know what I'm talking about, don't bother flaming me for trolling as this is a legitimate grievance with Apple over their recent purchases, plus you'll look like a tit to anyone who does know what I'm talking about<hr></blockquote>

huhuh huhuh... you said tit... huhuh huhuh

MacRonin

07-19-2002, 10:23 PM

MacRonin said:

[quote]AND PLEASE! PLEASE GO OUT AND PURCHASE MAYA FROM ALIAS|WAVEFRONT!!!<hr></blockquote>

And then shannyla said:

[quote]...because we'd really like you to destroy the reputation and utility of the most important piece of software in 3d CGI production right now, like you've done with Shake and Rayz, by making us run it on your truely pathetic hardware...

And if you're really happy with your new iMac and you don't really know what I'm talking about, don't bother flaming me for trolling as this is a legitimate grievance with Apple over their recent purchases, plus you'll look like a tit to anyone who does know what I'm talking about.<hr></blockquote>

Wow. Angry about something? Remember, it is all just software, it will come and it will go... Shake and RayZ have not even surfaced yet, so how can anyone (except for the folks doing the coding, and Steve Jobs...) know what will come of these programs after Apple gets done putting their brand on them...!?!

I know that Apple would have their hands full if they purchased Maya, what with trying to satisfy the needs of four different platforms, but I think it could be done... Think of it this way, Apple purchases the Maya portion of A|w (and, if you haven't noticed, A|w makes a very clear distinction between the two market segments that Maya & Studio serve...), leaving A|w with the portion of their software properties that actually makes them money on a consistant basis... Like they say themselves, Studio is used by EVERY car manufacturer in the WORLD... The Maya programmers/engineers come along with Apple... (Duncan, Bill and the rest of the gang)

Apple spins off the software portion of their DCC properties, and this seperate arm of the Apple corporate giant fulfills the needs of ALL platform users...

Or, Apple bits the bullet, and announces the timeline for end-of-life of the 'other' platforms Maya is on... And Steve gives a 'one more thing', which is RenderMan being licensed to Apple for use as Mayas new default renderer...!

Like MANY Mac users have said before (not here alot, mainly over on the Highend boards & the Alias listserve...), Apple is not going into this blind, and they KNOW that the current hardware offerings are not up to snuff for a professional level day to day production workflow... I REALLY doubt that Apple would seriously offer Shake running on current hardware as a viable solution to the market it is targeting with such purchases...

As for the iMac comment (and your accompanying attempt to classify me as some 'regular' AppleInsider slack-jawed bottom-feeding teenager...), I wouldn't mind a 17" model in the least... Be great for keeping the listserves open on, and providing music throughout the day... Beats slowing up my main workstation to fulfill such mundane tasks...

MacRonin said:

[quote]All I want is a quad G5 with about 8GB of DDR RAM (more would be nice...), a killer OpenGL card supporting dual HD ACDs, and the new Apple Production Studio-In-A-Box bundle... (Maya Unlimited, RenderMan, Final Cut Pro, Shake/RayZ, DVD Studio Pro, Logic)<hr></blockquote>

And then shannyla said:

[quote]Were this in any way likely or even possible, I'd be standing beside you cheering. No, scratch that, I'd already be filling out the comedy oversize check with many zeros at the end of it. I'm not...<hr></blockquote>

Let's put it into perspective...

The cost of a 'decent' Silicon Graphics workstation (not talking Indy or O2 here folks...), with a full cut of Alias|wavefront PowerAnimator (including Composer Lite), when Steve Jobs came back to Apple, was around US$75,000.00; that was without any real video I/O on the machine...

Now, fast forward the better part of a decade and what do we have available to us? Dual 1GHZ G4 workstations with graphics better than ever (but still with room for improvement...), with a bevy of animating, compositing and finishing tools available... Throw in HD I/O, and a nice RAID to feed that I/O, and a couple of huge 23" HD Cinema Displays...

You would STILL come in under what the basic 3D setup got you 'back in the day'...

Of course back then I usually preferred to work on the Onyx, which was a waste of CPU cycles for one guy working on a medium-sized scene... But it sure did come in handy for the render portion of the show...

I, for one, would not mind paying 40 grand for a sweet setup like I have envisioned above... It would be a good investment, easy to admin (ever work on an Onyx? not exactly fun...), and would provide usefull service for years to come...

So next time you decide to dump on someone else, because their ideas of what would make a great software/hardware/OS combo don't match with your own; remember, YOU could be the one who ends up looking like the 'tit...!

Cheers!

Programmer

07-20-2002, 12:05 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon:
"IMG: What kind of work has Apple been doing on OpenGL?

CB: Apple is easily the most active computer vendor working on OpenGL. They are doing more of the heavy lifting to advance OpenGL than anyone else. They spent all year working with NVIDIA and ATI to define a unified shader extension. They basically put a stake in the ground and got both companies to work towards it. They chaired the OpenGL working group on the vertex shaders, and they've been very influential. So they're completely engaged in that."

This is software. But it's intriguing that Apple have been working so closely with Ati and Nvidia on this.

Gives credence to a 'power'Mac/Apple/Nvidia announcement soon...

It gives a clue to their future plans for hardware. ie they are the ones doing the 'heavy lifting' on Open Gl now. Obviously they don't want M$ cornering the market on the 3D api.

It seems to indicate that Apple want to dominate Open GL or at least have a strong influence in a non M$ api.

That would fall in line with recent high end/workstation purchases. And while they haven't bought Maya or Xsi yet...it shows they are serious about 3D. And keeping Mac/Apple options open.

If they're taken Open GL that serious...why not buy Sgi tech' eg Maya/Open GL and be done with it.

Do we know what implementation of Gl that Jaguar will use?

Now. All we need is for the next gen' processor to be revealed.

'G5' anyone?

Lemon Bon Bon<hr></blockquote>

Apple needs OpenGL to be able to compete with DirectX, and v1.3 is missing many of the capabilities in DX8 -- vertex/pixel shaders, in particular. DX9 is almost upon us and yet there is still no way to use shaders on the Mac. Apple has been working to correct that, and 3DLabs has been working on an OpenGL 2.0 proposal that would be on DX9's level, at least.

Hopefully we see the fruits of Apple's labour in Jaguar, but the ARB notes from June's meeting don't fill me with a lot of hope -- there are still a lot of unresolved issues, so I don't know if they'll be able to include an implementation in that time frame. More's the pity.

Addison

07-20-2002, 05:39 AM

[quote]Originally posted by MacRonin:
ARGHHHHH!!!!!!!!

People, there is NO MacWorld Paris!!!

It is called Apple Expo Paris...

And while I am here...

HEY STEVE!!

When are we gonna get a PowerMac that is ready to run all this software you have been scarfing up as of late...?!?

AND PLEASE! PLEASE GO OUT AND PURCHASE MAYA FROM ALIAS|WAVEFRONT!!!

All I want is a quad G5 with about 8GB of DDR RAM (more would be nice...), a killer OpenGL card supporting dual HD ACDs, and the new Apple Production Studio-In-A-Box bundle... (Maya Unlimited, RenderMan, Final Cut Pro, Shake/RayZ, DVD Studio Pro, Logic)

Is that really asking to much...?!?<hr></blockquote>

...and keep the price below $1000.

How much do you think this thing would cost?

shannyla

07-20-2002, 08:30 PM

[quote] As for the iMac comment (and your accompanying attempt to classify me as some 'regular' AppleInsider slack-jawed bottom-feeding teenager...), I wouldn't mind a 17" model in the least... Be great for keeping the listserves open on, and providing music throughout the day... Beats slowing up my main workstation to fulfill such mundane tasks... <hr></blockquote>

The problem with posting to boards is emphasis. The iMac comment wasn't directed at you personally, just whenever I post on this subject there is invariably the reply from someone, who is no doubt very happy with their iMac and rightly so, accusing me of being a troll from a position of ignorance.

My personal problem with Apple buying the software they are buying, which is highly specialized software with a small and very knowledgable customer base, is that they are already end-of-lining support for other platforms. The post-production facility I manage can no longer use the 30 licenses of Shake that we had on yearly rolling licenses, as the only platform I can now renew on is Linux. And I'm not switching to Linux any time soon... For those who are unaware of this sector, many facilities rent software licenses on a per-project basis, for cashflow and facility management reasons.

I don't disagree with your point about the cost of computing power coming down, and in many ways its a very good thing. However, Apple coming into the post-production industry and throwing their flabby bulk around a very small industry like the 350 lb gorilla from Redmond is not the way to make friends and influence people.

[quote] I know that Apple would have their hands full if they purchased Maya, what with trying to satisfy the needs of four different platforms, but I think it could be done... <hr></blockquote>

I think if Apple purchased the Maya side of AW (which by the way and contrary to popular opinion, SGI are doing quite well at the moment and have no real need to sell right now, unlike last year) then SoftImage would be rubbing their hands with glee at the extra sales that would pour their way. Apple would almost certainly immeediately discontinue support for Windows and probably Irix. Linux, I suspect, would survive due to Pixar's use of said Os.

[quote] (ever work on an Onyx? not exactly fun...), <hr></blockquote>

Work on and fix them every day (it's what our discreet systems run on, and on octanes), and that depends on your idea of fun. Personally I quite enjoy the computer equivalent of popular mechanics, especially when you open that front panel and see what awaits...

OverToasty

07-20-2002, 10:18 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Programmer:
[QB]

Apple needs OpenGL to be able to compete with DirectX, and v1.3 is missing many of the capabilities in DX8 -- vertex/pixel shaders, in particular. DX9 is almost upon us and yet there is still no way to use shaders on the Mac. Apple has been working to correct that, and 3DLabs has been working on an OpenGL 2.0 proposal that would be on DX9's level, at least.

[QB]<hr></blockquote>

... somebody let me in on what's going on here, didn't Microsoft buy up some key patents on OpenGL? Making it's ability to compete openly with DirectX a matter of borrowed time anyway?

MacRonin

07-20-2002, 10:43 PM

Sorry if I misunderstood the focus of your 'attack'...

I think Apple can do some great things for our market (DCC,entertainment), and I find the idea of going to a single vendor for support on my workstation, my OS and my applications to be a VERY desirable thing indeed...

As for working on Onyxes (Onyxii?), I preferred to WORK on them, not IN them... I find the admin thing cool sometime, but I would rather just use the apps when possible, not massage the machine...

Which is why I find OS X so cool, because you can set it up, and then almost forget it... And when you DO need to 'go under the hood', it is easy enough, AND it is Unix (okay, so my main Unix experience is from an Irix perspective...) so that is familiar ground...

But others milage may vary...

Programmer

07-20-2002, 11:56 PM

[quote]Originally posted by OverToasty:
... somebody let me in on what's going on here, didn't Microsoft buy up some key patents on OpenGL? Making it's ability to compete openly with DirectX a matter of borrowed time anyway?<hr></blockquote>

So far Microsoft seems to be playing by the ARB's rules so this isn't preventing OpenGL from adopting certain technologys -- but it does slow things down a little. I don't think MS is actively trying to get in the way either, they're just the ones that happen to own the IP... but somebody is going to own it which means that there are IP issues to be hammered out.

Da sinister

07-21-2002, 12:32 AM

shannyla, unless im mistaken apple has only killed the windows version of products its purchased. so one might draw the conclusion that if apple bought Maya, the only platform not to survive the cut would again be Windows. perhaps im misinformed, most of Apple's recent purchases are outside of my occupational radar.

Eupfhoria

07-21-2002, 12:32 AM

[quote]Originally posted by MacRonin:
MacRonin said:
As for the iMac comment (and your accompanying attempt to classify me as some 'regular' AppleInsider slack-jawed bottom-feeding teenager...), I wouldn't mind a 17" model in the least... Be great for keeping the listserves open on, and providing music throughout the day... Beats slowing up my main workstation to fulfill such mundane tasks...<hr></blockquote>

I am aware of the lack of emphasis in these boards, but I am incredibly tired of people assuming that teenagers are automatically slack-jawed bottom-feeders. People automatically assume that we are all pimply faced idiots who just get stoned and cause havoc in civilised peoples lives. People assume that we have no real use to society. I don't know about anyone else on this board, but I do a couple hundred hours of community service a year, all volunteer just cause I think it's right to make other peoples lives better. If anyone asks me for help, and I can, I will. I always try look at both sides of an issue before I make my decision. I am not without my faults, however, I am 17. I am tired of taking sh!t.

(This really wasn't pointed towards you MacRonin, it's just I finally got really tired of it when I was reading your post. I realize that you are referring to a select group of teenagers. I also respect alot of what you have to say, most of it is well written and thoughtful.)

[ 07-21-2002: Message edited by: Eupfhoria ]

Gizwald

07-21-2002, 01:06 AM

eddively

07-21-2002, 02:49 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Gizwald:


Good one. You almost guessed it.<hr></blockquote>

care to break out anything else for us there Gizwald?

shannyla

07-21-2002, 07:34 AM

[quote] I find the idea of going to a single vendor for support on my workstation, my OS and my applications to be a VERY desirable thing indeed... <hr></blockquote>

I find this particular idea terrifying. Can you say "Quantel"...

From a business point of view, having all the apples (sic) in the same barrel is asking for trouble. Apple Computer Inc. has had terrible troubles in focussing on any one market segment for any length of time since the beginning. Do you remember when Apple were trying to be a corporate PC supplier, and the creative market was left to go hang (1995-98 or so). This resulted in bright spark decisions such as the one to cut PCI slots to three, with the result that Avid could no longer cost-effectively build their edititng systems. Result - Avid moved wholescale to NT, with the result that their Win2k systems are now noticably better than their Mac offerings.

I could go on, but Apple have consistantly had a corporate upheaval every three years or so since the late-1980s. The idea of staking my facility's future on a such a company, well I won't be signing up, put it that way.

And to get this post back on topic, the lack of any significant improvements in processing power coming from Apple is a huge burden for them if they want to sell to me. Okay, what if they build a Power4 variant? Well, I've kind of got used to spending a maximum of £10000 on a pc based workststation, the idea of paying SGI-like prices in the £15-20000 range, computer alone, no peripherals such as Video i/o or storage, leads me to think that I'd rather buy the Octane 2. If they get a Power4 machine for less than £7500, then it becomes a whole new ballgame...

[quote] As for working on Onyxes (Onyxii?), I preferred to WORK on them, not IN them... <hr></blockquote>
I do that as well, I drive flame as well as fix them. As far Irix, it may not be pretty or gimmick-laden, but it is efficient, powerful and not that unintuitive. Saying that, the discreet products have their own interface so Irix becomes effectively invisible.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that DCC and film and video production should move wholesale back to SGI. What I am saying is that we need the most powerful possible systems, which SGI does offer for certain market areas (commercials post production being the main one), and that Apple currently does not offer. Wintel PCs at the moment split the difference in performance, and Win2k and XP are reasonable operating systems for DCC production, despite any zealot-like opinions to the contrary. I used and liked Macs for broadcast graphics for nearly ten years. Using Win2k or XP is not the heinous experience some people like to portray it as, nor do they crash anything like as much as Os's 5 thru 9 did. OsX I'm witholding judgement on until it's out of beta...
[quote] shannyla, unless im mistaken apple has only killed the windows version of products its purchased. so one might draw the conclusion that if apple bought Maya, the only platform not to survive the cut would again be Windows<hr></blockquote>
As I said, the only platform that I can renew our Shake licenses on is Linux. Not Sgi or Win2k. They will not sell me those licenses. As for Rayz, I don't believe you can buy if for any platform, RFX (Ray Feeney's company, the founder of Silicon Grail) is handling support for Chalice and Rayz. Emagic now only offer Logic on Mac. Would Maya be any different? I doubt it.

JRC

07-21-2002, 01:32 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Eupfhoria:


I am aware of the lack of emphasis in these boards, but I am incredibly tired of people assuming that teenagers are automatically slack-jawed bottom-feeders. People automatically assume that we are all pimply faced idiots who just get stoned and cause havoc in civilised peoples lives. People assume that we have no real use to society. I don't know about anyone else on this board, but I do a couple hundred hours of community service a year, all volunteer just cause I think it's right to make other peoples lives better. If anyone asks me for help, and I can, I will. I always try look at both sides of an issue before I make my decision. I am not without my faults, however, I am 17. I am tired of taking sh!t.

(This really wasn't pointed towards you MacRonin, it's just I finally got really tired of it when I was reading your post. I realize that you are referring to a select group of teenagers. I also respect alot of what you have to say, most of it is well written and thoughtful.)

[ 07-21-2002: Message edited by: Eupfhoria ]<hr></blockquote>

Do you have any proof to the contrary?

:)

taboo

07-21-2002, 03:38 PM

[quote] From a business point of view, having all the apples (sic) in the same barrel is asking for trouble. <hr></blockquote>

Yep. We're in total agreement. :) But, at the same time, you're telling us that you've almost totally standardized on NT. This strikes me as not very rational in light of the new licencing structures coming from M$. Yes, you work in an industry that can afford it, but why would you if you don't have to? "Not moving to linux anytime soon". Again, why not?

[quote] Apple Computer Inc. has had terrible troubles in focussing on any one market segment for any length of time since the beginning. <hr></blockquote>

Hmmm. Don't know if we're in agreement on this one. Apple seemed to do quite well in focussing for quite some time, just not for a few years.

[quote] Do you remember when Apple were trying to be a corporate PC supplier, and the creative market was left to go hang (1995-98 or so). <hr></blockquote>

Yes. The six-slot 9600 was discontinued March 17, 1998. I actually own, and still use, one of the last ones. They were going after the corporate market for a while before that, but they had specific machines intended for it (eg PM4400 DOS).

[quote] This resulted in bright spark decisions such as the one to cut PCI slots to three, with the result that Avid could no longer cost-effectively build their edititng systems. Result - Avid moved wholescale to NT, with the result that their Win2k systems are now noticably better than their Mac offerings. <hr></blockquote>

No. Avid had effectively stopped supporting the Mac quite some time before this (at least a year, but I think it was more like 2-3...95 maybe). And, for quite some time prior to that, their Mac support was sh*t. That's one of the reasons that their Mac sales were so poor. Well, that, and there was this new upstart company called Media100 that was kicking their *ss all over the marketplace. Cheaper (by far), and, in many ways, far superior.

[quote] I could go on, but Apple have consistantly had a corporate upheaval every three years or so since the late-1980s. The idea of staking my facility's future on a such a company, well I won't be signing up, put it that way. <hr></blockquote>

Yep. Corporate upheaval is what happens when you change CEO's. Each time usually leads to "restructuring" and a "change of focus". Personally, I would be willing to stake it all on whoever has the best current offerings at the price when I upgrade. That would mean not discounting anyone, including Apple. At the moment I would think that's SGI, not M$, but what do I know?

[quote] And to get this post back on topic, the lack of any significant improvements in processing power coming from Apple is a huge burden for them if they want to sell to me. <hr></blockquote>

Yep. I think everybody here (and Apple, for that matter) would agree with you that the current crop of PowerMacs don't have the oomph required for the software they've been buying. Unfortunately, the development of the G4 is not in Apple's hands, and that's caused them a fair bit of grief. I would suspect, however, that the purchases mean there is something far better in the works. I would also suspect it means that they have alternatives available, so as not to be caught in this position again.

[quote] Okay, what if they build a Power4 variant? Well, I've kind of got used to spending a maximum of £10000 on a pc based workststation, the idea of paying SGI-like prices in the £15-20000 range, computer alone, no peripherals such as Video i/o or storage, leads me to think that I'd rather buy the Octane 2. If they get a Power4 machine for less than £7500, then it becomes a whole new ballgame... <hr></blockquote>

What if it was in the £5000-£7500 range (yes, I think this unlikely....knowing Apple, it would be more like £7500-£10000....but it IS possible at current Power4 prices)? Here's a quote for ya from IBM's server section.....

[quote] An additional Power4 processor for the first of two CPU/memory cards in the pSeries 630 chassis costs $5,000; a whole two-way card costs $11,000 <hr></blockquote>

If IBM can offer a second CPU for that kinda price, then it's quite feasable for Apple to use the Power4 in the £5000-£10000 range. Mind you, I do agree with programmer, in that, I suspect we'll see a brand new chip based on Power tech, rather than an actual Power4. Are you telling us that you wouldn't consider Apple's machines if they were on par, and faster, than that PC workstation? :( Now, I AM offended.

I would suggest, rather than just complaining about the purchases and current hardware, give Apple the benefit of the doubt, and wait and see what's coming. They've turned around most of their software purchases within a year. Also, it looks like they've got a fair bit of graphic hardware development in the works (some of it quite intriguing, if I understand it properly).
Aren't you the least bit curious what they're up to (instead of just being bitter about it)?

PS Still wondering what you think about the M$ OpenGL mess..... :)

PPS My apologies to everyone else for the length of this post. <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />

[ 07-21-2002: Message edited by: taboo ]

Eupfhoria

07-21-2002, 03:57 PM

[quote]Originally posted by JRC:


Do you have any proof to the contrary?

:) <hr></blockquote>

meh?
<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Contrary to what?

shannyla

07-21-2002, 06:40 PM

[quote] PS Still wondering what you think about the M$ OpenGL mess..... <hr></blockquote>

Haven't looked into it as 3d isn't my speciality, at least not so much that I've been bothered to look into this issue in the depth that I probably should have. I'll take a closer look this week and get back to you. If you have any objective info, I'd be interested if you want to post it.

[quote]Well, that, and there was this new upstart company called Media100 that was kicking their *ss all over the marketplace. Cheaper (by far), and, in many ways, far superior. <hr></blockquote>

Cheaper maybe, better picture quality than ABVB is a subjective, but it failed as a professional editing system for the same reasons that Final Cut Pro fails in that the media management was a joke. That, and the fact that the company passed through many iterations of what they wanted to be, much like Apple... Saying that, 844X looks interesting and well suited to what became Media 100's main market, which was broadcast design. I have plenty of issues with Avid, but I have always been sure what the company was about.

[quote] Yep. We're in total agreement. But, at the same time, you're telling us that you've almost totally standardized on NT. This strikes me as not very rational in light of the new licencing structures coming from M$. Yes, you work in an industry that can afford it, but why would you if you don't have to? <hr></blockquote>

We've standardized on NT (or more accurately Windows 2000, I consider NT to be as unpleasant as its deserved reputation and it simply wasn't an OS for any creative endeavours) for our systems that aren't client facing, except for Avids which we are in the process of switching from Mac to Win2k. For the Avids the main reason for this is to have them sit on our network infrastructure better, mainly to do with tedious issues involving Active Directory which is superb as a network management tool for our needs. I'm sure it fails for many server tasks but not for ours. On a side note, I'm pleased that OsX allows for user verification and rights issues under Active Directory. From my perspective, a very grown-up decision from Apple, even if it uses tools built into BSD.

For the other machines, I get the best price/performance ratio from WinTel boxes (and I mean Intel, and more specifically Xeon. My experiences with AMD have not been the best, but another story). I don't have the same issues with Microsoft that most mac people do. I don't care if they are Big Brother, and we don't have enough machines to be particuarly concerned with the new licensing structures (we are under 100 machines). Were we the size of ILM or PDI, it might be more of a problem.

SGI machines we only use in our Discreet systems, which are client-attended machines and have to throw video around swiftly. But they can't count so quick anymore, so they are useless for 3d (relatively compared to Win2k) and a bit too expensive for backroom compositing and graphics However Discreet's new architecture could be on Linux, so we'll wait and see what happens.

[quote] "Not moving to linux anytime soon". Again, why not? <hr></blockquote>

Because it's clunky and the apps and hardware aren't there. Our standard PC setup runs either a 3d or a compositing package, appropriate plug-ins, Adobe apps and a DPS Reality video i/o system, only the first part of that setup could be done on Linux. But see above about Discreet, although that will be a turnkey system, not a build-your-own.

[quote] Aren't you the least bit curious what they're up to (instead of just being bitter about it)? <hr></blockquote>

I wouldn't say bitter, as at the end of each day I go home and forget about the abstractions of work. I do hate hypocrisy however, even though I cna't spell it right now, and if Microsoft had done with Adobe or Quark what Apple have done recently then the howls of indignation would be long and deep, and rightly so. If Apple hadn't been so petty over Win2k support, then I would be happy for them to own Nothing Real, Emagic et al. As it is, I now have to waste time looking for a replacement package for Shake, and Apple's actions mean they have lost my goodwill as a customer, regardless of what they may do in the future.

Saying that, I am curious to see what they do with all their booty.