And you thought Fran had it bad, check this out!

[Matsu]

The past few days I've been following John Manzione's PB17 crisis on www.Macnet2.com.

I'm inclined to believe his claims that an improperly seated hinge/latch/screen, which he commented on upon its arrival caused the screen to crack.

Apple, naturally, doesn't believe him. Actually, according to Manzione, they might believe him, but basically refuse to repair any cracked LCD (I think it's probably because it's impossible to tell the difference between accidental damage and damage resulting from manufacturing errors -- which would be rare to begine with)

Some think Manzione is using his web site to get free (uncovered) repairs. I dunno about that. Manzione has actually published in print for some time, although knowing what those people are like, that doesn't necessarily lend him more credence. haha

In any event, a bit of a feud has erupted, with Apple doing a little talking about Mr Manzione, and Mr Manzione doing a whole lotta yelling.

I gotta say that it's a pleasant overall change from the initial Apple linguo-anal cleaning excercises with which his site started off. It originally had a childish obsession with praising Apple and a NO-criticism clause in their forum registration. Basically, the site started off stupidly, but has been getting better.

What's interesting now is that according to Manzione, someone at Apple has damaged his book to make it look like the cracked screen was the result of his own mistreatment. However, he did post pictures before he sent the book in for repair, and none of the damage was there in those pics. I'm inclined to believe Manzione, though it can't be proved either way.

what is interesting, and we've seen ample evidence of this before, is that Apple has a nearly cult like obsession with stamping critics out of the mac web once and for all.

Scary stuff... go check it out.

[Matsu]

Why can't I edit the thread title? Doggammit! A typo on the thread title. erm :/

[Fixed. -Amorph]

[jante99]

If this poster is correct Apple's tech support is really, really scary:

posted by some one at the macnetv2 site
My friend has decided to refrain from posting here, he just doesn?t want to lose his job. He told me most of the stuff he would have written so I will do the best I can to relay that information myself. Please do not give anyone my IP address, and remember this information has passed from my friend to me, I don?t have first-hand knowledge about this. I think John will recognize some of it and know that what I am writing is true.

Apple customer service has a rating system for its consumer customers. John is considered a consumer customer at Apple, not a business, because most of John?s hardware is registered in his name, not his company.

My friend works in Texas but some customer reps do not. All of the information my friend relayed to me was gathered by looking at his file and making some inquiries to other friends of his at Apple, not all of them in Texas.

Customers are rated with regard to their own level of skill, novice, skilled, expert, etc. But there are also some code words used to inform customer reps who?s on the other end of the phone line. For instance, say you call Apple constantly, asking them how to set up your email, your browser preferences, or even how to use AppleWorks. Your records will reflect that you are a novice, but it will also reflect that you are a nuisance. Although the rep sees every call you ever made he has this information so he doesn?t have to read all the notes in your file. When he sees that you are a nuisance caller he adjusts his tone and method of helping you. He tries to make it a point that you should be reading online about your problem and not calling Apple, even though it?s your right to do so.

If you happen to be a consumer with several Macs you are given another rating. If you have more than your share of problems you are given another rating. If these problems are small ones you are given yet another rating, if your problems are big ones, yet another. You get the idea. The notes are often too long to read by the rep on the phone so Apple devised a system that tell the rep how to deal with you.

For a long time John was rated as an expert consumer, someone who knows what he?s talking about, so often the reps would bypass a lot of the steps in solving a problem. Stuff like zapping the parameter RAM, dumb things like that. They know it?s a waste of time.

According to Apple records John?s first G4 PowerBook was the 400Mhz. His first problem was the loose battery issue. Apple repaired it by replacing the battery. Modifications were made to the battery that allowed it to sit more firmly.

Apple?s records show that John registered several G4 PowerBooks. Almost everyone had a problem of one sort of another. Each problem was verified to be real problems and all of them were taken care of, for a while.

John was soon rated a problem customer and he was dealt with as a ?suspicious? customer. John was never upgraded and he never asked to be upgraded. I mean John never asked to have a PowerBook replaced by a newer one. The records do show that John wanted his Gforce 4 MX card replaced with another card, but that was denied. My friend and his co-workers wanted to tell customers that the card was fine and all it needed was a good firmware upgrade, but they were told to tell customers their problem was not a problem. Anyway, John?s third Tower had the same problem but he chose not to take another one, even though it was offered. According to the records, it was John who told Executive Relations to close the case. He also had a problem with his 22? cinema display and refused to have it fixed because he didn?t want to be without it. The Executive Relations person in charge wanted to have it fixed and John kept refusing and again asked that the case on it be closed. ?Closed by customer request?

Back to the PowerBooks though. Ask any Apple repair tech and he or she will tell you that the Titanium PowerBook was always problematic. The best one produced is the current one, the 1Ghz with the improved logic board and the better paint. But there are video problems with some of these.

According to the records John called Apple and told them his sound out port was not working on his 1Ghz PowerBook. It was sent in for repair but because of his rating his repair wasn?t covered. He was told that he yanked out a headphone jack too hard, thus it was his problem. John denied doing this. He was also informed that the case was cracked around the PC slot, but my friend said just the paint was cracked, but Apple told him that it would be more than $600 to replace the case. He declined and the case was closed. John denied that the case was cracked when it came in. My friend says that the number of things that happen to a PowerBook while it?s in repair would scare the hell our of anyone. He thinks it?s a good idea to video tape yourself packing up the computer than handing it to Airborne Express and video taping the delivery back to you. How?s that for confidence in Apple??

In a matter of weeks John called back reporting video problems. According to John his screen would flicker. Again it as sent to Texas where it was discovered that the video was a real problem and the logic board was replaced under warranty.

John contacted Executive Relations again during this time and complained. He was then designated as someone to play hardball with. In other words, my friend said AppleCare was basically useless for John because future problems would be deemed his fault no matter what.

The records show that when John called Apple about his shattered screen it was sent to another level of support immediately. He was told flat out that the warranty would not cover the screen, that it was obviously his fault. My friend says that he and several other people there think that there is no way to dismiss his claim without seeing it, but because it was John it was made clear to him that he was out of luck. According to the notes John didn?t argue about it, he asked how much it would be to get fixed. He didn?t commit to getting it fixed. He didn?t insist on elevating the problem either.

Nobody knows why, but Robin Roberts called John and asked that the PowerBook be picked up and sent to Cupertino. The records do not show him calling or writing anyone at Apple. He suspects that someone pointed out John?s column to customer relations and it was handed to Robin.

Robin?s notes indicate that she wanted to resolve the issue and John was amicable. It was sent to Cupertino and two days later notes appeared in his file that indicated there was a single scratch on the lower part of the PowerBook, a few scratches on the bezel and latch and a bit of chocolate on outside of the computer, near the pc slot. Although John says Robin didn?t base her decision on this, she did. John?s PowerBook was not to be covered, not now, not in the future. Robin?s notes make mention about John saying his credit card company was going to reimburse him for the cost and he wanted to get it fixed. Robin indicates that the PowerBook was to be sent back the next morning. But my friend found out it was not, it was held two more days without Robin?s knowledge.

Another interesting thing, and something John reported, was that John did place a call to Apple and reported the screen shattered to a new Tech support person. Bumped up a level, the person wrote it up as a covered repair until he saw the notes. John says the guy said something like ?if it were a 15? screen we would cover it?. Well, that?s not exactly true. The rep was acting as he would with any customer with this problem and as he was filling out the forms he came across the note that said this PowerBook is not to be fixed under any circumstances. That?s when he changed his story and refused to have it fixed under John?s warranty.


My friend says that reading through John?s files is like reading a novel. He had an iPod die on him but refused to get it fixed and instead it says he was ?going to give it away?. And other than the Tower the only problems he?s had were the PowerBooks. My friend says that every single incident he?s had with the PowerBooks were things he sees everyday. Nothing indicates that John ever attempted to upgrade at the cost of Apple, nor does it show that he ever said anything like ?If you don?t fix this I will write about it?. But he is rated badly at Apple because he runs MacNET, buys a lot of hardware and has repeated problems with PowerBooks. Oh, it does say he had an iBook in for repair at the Apple Store and he called back 5 months later with the same problem and was told that the warranty on the part was 90 days. The notes say nothing about any bitching on John?s part.

My friend says that whenever someone like Bob Levitus, as an example, has a problem it?s fixed no questions asked. But Web publishers are looked at as potential problems because a lot of them are younger and are considered hobbyists trying to use their website as leverage.

My friend says most of the people he works with think the PowerBook screen broke due to a misalignment. They have seen several bad latches already and when one sticks and the screen is out of alignment any kind of pressure can shatter it. The place where the shatter begins tells him that it was a pressure break, while the lid was being lifted the glass was jolted a fraction more out of place, just enough to cause it to break.

My friend says that Apple is taking all this very seriously and everybody is reading this. They are praying it stays on the Mac web and a larger source doesn?t pick it up. They want it to go away but it?s really gone to far. The notes say that John is having the charges reversed. The guy named Patrick is the guy that gets all the hardball cases and he is now in charge of this case.

[jante99]

Second part:

John has never sued Apple and never threatened to, according to the file. They don?t think he will sue in this case either, but they also know that John is telling the truth about the information being leaked because of the IP address of Wieland being posted. Oh, and there is a note that John emailed Robin twice, once telling her about the leaked information. According to my friend someone has been put in charge to find out who leaked it. So far there is nothing about the damage to the PowerBook and John has not called Apple about it. In fact, there is noting in the records about John calling Apple after his conversation with Robin. So John is not making any demands or threats, at least none are being entered in the file.
How will this all play out? I asked my friend and he thinks John will never be able to buy a new Mac and expect to be treated fairly. He says to think about this as like having a police record. He will never be believed, and Apple will never believe someone in Cupertino damaged his PowerBook, but people in Austin know for a fact that this happens. My friend has scratched a few Titanium?s while working on them and when he asked to replace the case his boss said no, blame it on the customer. My friend is the kind of guy that likes to go out of way to help people with PowerBook problems but he is not allowed to, his supervisor has to approve every piece of equipment he uses. He says it?s getting worse and worse.

That?s about it. I recommend that John either switch to a PC or have a friend by his hardware from now on, because he will never be treated right. Is it fair? No, of course not, but this isn?t about being fair. John is mad at Apple and Apple is mad at John. Both have a lot to lose, and Apple wants to this to made right, but have no idea how to proceed. Some people at Apple pray he moves to a PC. The worst part is that every problem John has had have been real ones, but because he writes about them instead of kissing a** like so many other writers they treat him different.

Some people in Texas hate John for what he?s doing and some applaud him. But no one will risk his job over it.

My friend says this ?If you watch the video you can see, as a person who works for Apple anway, that someone did a number of John?s computer while it was in Cupertino, and if I didn?t know better I?d swear it was Jobs himself.?

Pretty sad indictment on Apple.

It's 7:30 in the morning so please excuse the poor typing. John, I hope this doesn't piss you off that I posted this, I tried to be fair and I told the truth, how it was relayed to me anyway.

Michael

If this is true then Apple is setting themselves up for an enourmous class action law suit. This is frawed!

[Eugene]

It isn't true. John Manzione is a crook. Matsu, you should know this...I've heard you rant about him before.

I have personally dealt with Manzione before as I also had the same G4 Tower screen flashing bug he mentions briefly. What he doesn't mention was that the bug was purely driver related and resolved. He also doesn't mention how he demanded a GeForce4 Ti out of it because he thought the bug was in the GeForce4 MX cards. Faulty logic of course since the Ti wasn't even out yet, and could have sufered from the same bug as well. Later he made passive threats about how he should get a new Cinema HD Display since the screen flashing was obviously damaging the screen. He also got Apple to replace the computer not once, but twice for him...all for a software bug.

Look at his hardware problem history and ask yourself if he's for real. It's like every Apple product he owns is made out of cardboard...they all break! His PowerBook G3, PBG4, iBook, iMac...if it has an Apple logo on it, it'll break on him. The problem is the man, not the computer.

I bet nobody else on the planet will ever have the same PBG4 17" problem as he does.

What's interesting now is that according to Manzione, someone at Apple has damaged his book to make it look like the cracked screen was the result of his own mistreatment. However, he did post pictures before he sent the book in for repair, and none of the damage was there in those pics. I'm inclined to believe Manzione, though it can't be proved either way.

Oh come on now. Why would they do that? Their contract is already loose enough. They don't have to further damage his computer just to say they won't fix it. Just look at the way he writes. He's a pathological liar. And if you check his archives, he's never been that rabid fanboi you think he is.

Apple should sue him for libel. All the judge will need to see is his long repair history. Maybe that will make him shut up. Man I wish I saved the Power Mac G4 thread on the Apple Discussions Board.

[Matsu]

Yeah, I even complained about him in this thread, and I don't think Apple has drafted a secret plot to screw with him, but as you suggest he himself may have antagonized someone at Apple enough that they took out their frustrations on a PB (that they knew was being credited (by the CC company) anyway.

From what I know of magazines, you can usually get anything repaired/replaced if you contact the manufacturer (and are nice about it) BEFORE publishing anything. If you do your end and keep it hush hush, the manufcaturer will most of the time give you special treatment so that you continue to keep it hush hush. Manzione thinks of himself as a magazine, as a publication, Apple doesn't. I think that's the simple reason for the impasse. He demands things publicly, and does a lot of yelling, and Apple treats him like everybody else (which is only fair, since I really wouldn't call Macnet2 a "publication")

EDit: or in a more succinct version, mebbe I'm just a nihilist at heart, but I enjoy seeing a "publication" screw with Apple for a change, rather than the other way around. hehe

Still, I enjoy the negative publicity that Manzione is generating. If nothing else, it will make people think twice about AppleCare. Kinda unrelated, but for the money they charge there ought to be some sort of screen coverage/insurance included. If big box retailers can offer this, so can Apple.

[mrmister]

Maybe you are a nihilist--the man has terrible credibility, and I'm sick of hearing about his damn powerbook everywhere.

[Not Unlike Myself]

Fran did have it bad (check the sig.).

But this other guy is sad.

[seb]

"Still, I enjoy the negative publicity that Manzione is generating."

Of course you do. However, that tells us more about you than it does about (unrelated) AppleCare or anything else.

And I don't think AppleCare should cover abuse or damage. You gotta take care of your own sh!t. It's a several thousand dollar piece of hi-tech equipment. Not a toaster.

Think about it.

[hmurchison]

Manzione is justifying Apples apprehension towards Hobbyist sites.

He's made publice a Private affair and has all but ensured that any other Website Owners will have problems getting repairs.

I feel for John in ways but it's HIGHLY abnormal to have that many problems with Macs. I've worked around alot and his issues raise SERIOUS red flags.

He's got his support troups over on his site like Jeff Williams. Misery loves company. Matsu...don't fall victim to this garbage. Neither Apple nor Manzione are right here and people are starting to tune out on John. No matter what happens Apple will win. This is David versus Super Goliath here.

[jante99]

I have a feeling the Michael character on the site who posted the really long detailed case history of John's Apple trouble is actually John himself. Who else could possibly know that much, even someone who works at Apple?

[Amorph]

Originally posted by hmurchison
Manzione is justifying Apples apprehension towards Hobbyist sites.

And he's making Apple that much more cynical toward people who actually do have a run of bad luck.

I feel for John in ways but it's HIGHLY abnormal to have that many problems with Macs. I've worked around alot and his issues raise SERIOUS red flags.

Also, his volubility and professed loyalty are both rather transparent attempts to get some leverage against Apple, which basically presumes bad faith on their part.

Looking at his history, he's either a complete slob with respect to his equipment, or he has a technological black thumb. Apple does ship the odd lemon (like my brother's old PowerBook 150), and the occasional problematic model (the TiBook, for the first several revisions) but this is ridiculous. It's like watching someone complain that their last 12 Toyotas fell apart within a month of purchase.

[Matsu]

I dunno, i kinda half believe him about the original breakage, less sure about everything else: I do think he's a drama queen, and the change in reporting on his site has more to do with Apple not considering him a legit "publication."

This is unrelated, but almost any mag (that's actually in print) won't dare say anything negative about Apple, so we have to turn to the web. I just like the melodrama, sosueme!

As for Applecare, why shouldn't it cover accidental breakage? We know LCD's are fragile, that's why I think AppleCare ought to include screen protection. NOT with the basic one year, but when people pony up the ridiculous amount for extended coverage, there should be some sort of screen protection built in, perhaps with a small additional deductible. Apple charges well over the industry average for coverage, and let's not forget that retailers themselves manage to offer extended warrantees that DO provide coverage for accidental screen damage. It isn't an unreasonable expectation given the cost.

[alcimedes]

of that "inside" info posted, i think the bit about customer ratings is probably accurate.

i see a noticable change in how i'm treated after they look up my account. (for the better)

i for one have no problem with that. i like being able to skip over the chimp with index cards tech support level.

[Not Unlike Myself]

alcimedes I agree. This kind of easy to ready labeling goes on in many industries. We have 'trouble customers' and 'gold customers' (the ones with money) among our many rating systems. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to find Apple uses these. I too have several dozen computers registered with Apple and no longer am read the 'purge the pram' nonsense.

[murbot]

John Manzione is showing his true colors in today's column (http://www.macnet2.com/more.php?id=338_0_1_0_M).

Mac fanboi, eh? Well, in today's column he concludes that:

AAC encoded music sucks, big time
When we played the songs we noticed immediately that the songs sounded muddled and barely listenable.

2.1% and shrinking
Somewhere along the “line of decline” Apple decided that it can no longer play with the big boys when it comes to “keeping up with the Jones” regarding speed. You can blame Motorola for this if you like, but the blame falls on the shoulders of Steve Jobs. Apple’s Board of Directors are simply puppets for Jobs and no one dare challenge his rule.

No one is adopting Apple’s expensive Xserves
These sleek but weak servers are over-priced and under performed. No one in their right mind is going to spend a lot of money on an Xserve when IT people can build UNIX PC’s for a fraction of the cost and get a faster Server in the process.

Apple’s desktop machines are ridiculously slower than PC’s and much more expensive

And the funniest thing of all:

companies at turning to more and more Dells for employee desktop machines rather than waste precious resources on weird looking Macs that run a horribly slow OS..... How can you expect a business to pay more for a Mac only to get an OS than runs slow, is less compatible than Windows, and requires all employees to learn a new way to work. Well, they don’t, and that’s why you see the worldwide market share at an all time low.

This is hilarious. John actually made this comment regarding OSX, in April of last year:

"Bottom line after playing with several machines running the official OS X is simply this. There is NO other Operating System in the world that is faster than OS X. None."

Have a peek through this thread (http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101673) at MacNN, there is some good reading in there.

Poor guy has his nose out of joint and is slamming basically everything he can think of to do with Apple.

Regarding his PowerBook, I don't doubt there was a problem with the hinge sticking or being out of alignment... but when I'm opening the lid of a $3500 computer if I feel the least bit of pressure, I STOP OPENING THE THING. You can see how quickly he opens and closes the display in that video, and I'm sure he did just that when he destroyed the LCD. If you feel the brakes on your brand new car going out, do you leave the driveway anyway, then ask for a new car when you hit a light post?

[Eugene]

Matsu, what they don't cover is flagrant abuse by a sh*thead. Of course you sympathize with Manzione. I don't know how ANYBODY can defend this guy.

Like I said earlier, I crossed paths with him before. He made Apple ship him two new Power Macs, demanded a new Cinema Display and GeForce4 Ti for what ultimately ended up being a bug in the drivers.

It was a real problem, but blown out of proportion. And he is of course hit by every Apple production flaw ever discussed and in the meantime manages to discover a half dozen on his own.

[Matsu]

Good points all around, from you guys and him! Apple's marketshare is in decline, Xserves are not being adopted at a respectable rate (though I'm sure Apple never suspected they would, and this is part of a long term strategy to build a new market for themselves), and Global Marketshare is moving into that "scary" area.

Does he know or really understand these issues? probably not too well, and most likely it's only coming out now that he has a personal beef with Apple.

Like I said, I just like the drama, and if it puts a little pressure on Apple (however insignificant, or possibly misguided, tho I don't think entirely so) then cool.

[Eugene]

Originally posted by murbot
Regarding his PowerBook, I don't doubt there was a problem with the hinge sticking or being out of alignment... but when I'm opening the lid of a $3500 computer if I feel the least bit of pressure, I STOP OPENING THE THING. You can see how quickly he opens and closes the display in that video, and I'm sure he did just that when he destroyed the LCD. If you feel the brakes on your brand new car going out, do you leave the driveway anyway, then ask for a new car when you hit a light post?
And how he pushes down on the display and waves the whole thing around like it's a baton. The guy's a freaking menace...Somehow, somewhere he'll get his. :D I can't imagine a person like this who doesn't have a ton of enemies.

[Bodhi]

Wow. The guy really is an idiot.

[hmurchison]

Matsu the only pressure he could have made on Apple would have come had he not flown off the handle and accused anything Apple touched as being crappy.

He's finished. All credibility is G-O-N-E. On the net all you have is credibility an his is gone. He obviously IS a Problem Customer and Macnet2 is being deleted from thousands of bookmark lists. John ...you lose.

Matsu you should know better than to align yourself with a fool. I'm disappointed in you.

[Eugene]

Originally posted by Matsu
Xserves are not being adopted at a respectable rate
Quit while you're behind, pixel-boy. :p :lol:

[Matsu]

Originally posted by Eugene
Quit while you're behind, pixel-boy. :p :lol:

OK, lets say they aren't setting the market on fire. I think it's a good product, but it's the kind of thing that needs time to be established (service and support) an entrenched base, yadda yadda... That their uptake is slow is a valid point, that this means Apple is somehow doomed in that space is perhaps not. Like I said, I'm pretty sure Apple expected that it would take some time to penetrate that market regardless of the quality (or price) of their product, and has planned for this. A slow loyal build up, that meets a significant boost with 970's and an increasing move towards farms/blades/clusters of thin machines rather than BIG iron per se. But, it isn't really something that's contributing to the bottom line ATM, that's all I meant.

[Matsu]

Originally posted by hmurchison

Matsu you should know better than to align yourself with a fool. I'm disappointed in you.

Darn! :D

Actually, I'm just enjoying the show, and I thought to bring it here for a little fun, even a 12"PB can't erase my fondness for off the mark anti-Apple tirades. iDunno, there's just something cathartic about it, even if it is off the mark.

[hmurchison]

Watching Manzione writhe in anguished pain IS kind of Morbidly Amusing.

Come on John...let ALL that hate out.

[Aquatic]

Support is excellent. They flew my iBook to Texas and back in 2 days and fixed the combo drive which died, and since I'd taken the iBook apart they fixed numerous other things too. And even loosened a screw so I could put RAM in! I would say Apple support is first class. Certainly better than any other company.

[JLL]

Originally posted by Matsu
Xserves are not being adopted at a respectable rate (though I'm sure Apple never suspected they would, and this is part of a long term strategy to build a new market for themselves)

Do we know that? The only numbers I've seen was from the first three months after the release.

Regarding the article:

He compares them to home build Linux servers? Apple isn't competing with them.

I know six year olds that are more mature than him.

[BuonRotto]

Manzione has always struck me as manic-depressive. On one day, Apple can do no wrong, the next, Apple is doomed! I've always had excellent support from Apple and the local specialist, they've bent the rules for me before. I know that isn't always the case, and I'm sure this is a real problem for him (edit: I meant to say that he's had real problems]. I just don't know whether all the excitement is really deserved or whether it's just him. Take the case of whats-his-name from Railhead Design when he had problems with his Apple display. He was too accomodating (sent it back three times, but nary a word against the fruit company). There must be some cosmic balance between the two.

[Matsu]

HEHEHE, Manic-dpressive! HAHHAHA

I want to kill myself :D, wait, I mean :(

Or, he may be the Mac Web version of our favorite flame baiter, Mr Dvorak. It would be good to have one of our own. Funny thing, this might, as much as it destroys his cred, make him more popular than ever! Nothing like page hits to keep the adverts happy!

In which case, a hearty apology from me for aiding and abetting.

[Gizzmonic]

Yeah, as someone wiser than me once said on this board,

"You know it's gonna suck when it begins with, 'I've been a Mac user since XXXX'".

This is no different that countless "I've bought every Mac since 1984, I named my kids Steve, Steve, and Steve, why have you betrayed me Apple?" letters that take up space on message boards everywhere.

The biggest fanatics take the hardest falls. I think it's a certain personality type, but whatever it is, they always take the largest offense at something when they notice any type of flaw the Apple has, real or perceived.

Once they've "lost faith" in Apple, they let loose on a self-indulgent tirade, and then what happens to them? Most of the time, they shut up and keeping using their Macs like good little soldiers. Or they go over to Windows and find something else to hate.

Why don't we ever see any letters like "Dear Hewlett-Packard, I've bought all your calculators since the H-84..." ;)

[applenut]

good. john is ****ing asshole.

glad to see this happen to him and i hope apple spits in his face

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by Gizzmonic
Yeah, as someone wiser than me once said on this board,

"You know it's gonna suck when it begins with, 'I've been a Mac user since XXXX'".

Also look for my two favorite endings to these rants/open letters:

"FIX THIS APPLE!" (Psst... they're not reading this.)

and the ultimate slam:

"...as bad as Windows." (Anything less than miraculous gets lumped in.)

[Paul]

Originally posted by Aquatic
Support is excellent. They flew my iBook to Texas and back in 2 days and fixed the combo drive which died, and since I'd taken the iBook apart they fixed numerous other things too. And even loosened a screw so I could put RAM in! I would say Apple support is first class. Certainly better than any other company.
I wouldn't call it excellent. Sure, the few problems I have had with my computer have been fixed expeditiously... but problems like this (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=354070#post354070) happen... and there is no reason for it... im sure that the problems that Manzione have had over the years have been exaggerated, but the point is, simple problems should not be happening. While you may not be experiencing them, they DO exist, can be easily avoided and only create bad sentiment, which is not a good thing...:grumble: :(

[1337_5L4Xx0R]

I am not taking sides on this issue. However, I'm curious:

How could he know the screen flashing issue on his towers was a software driver issue? Is it unreasonable to think it is a hardware issue?

How could he be at fault for a non-functional fan resulting in a smoking motherboard on a TiBook? Loose battery (known issue)? Etc. This is not carelesness.

Have you seen a rev. A TiBook? My classmates had numerous issues... paint, video, etc.

The lack of objectivity in here is stooping to Manzione levels.

[MattHWU]

Actually, I'm pretty sure you're all just complaining because he's the only Mac fanatic to have balls and tell the truth for once. Sorry, but when you live a lie in your 100% Mac-biased worlds, and you rip on one of your own for saying anything but good about an Apple product, then you're a damn sad person.

[alcimedes]

Actually, I'm pretty sure you're all just complaining because he's the only Mac fanatic to have balls and tell the truth for once. Sorry, but when you live a lie in your 100% Mac-biased worlds, and you rip on one of your own for saying anything but good about an Apple product, then you're a damn sad person.



it has more to do with reality. i order a LOT of PC and Mac hardware every year. even at these high volumes, i've never had a fraction of the problems this guy has.

combine that with the fact that those who've met him say he's slime, and i don't trust his claims at face value. if you'll only believe the worst about a company in spite of logic, isn't that just as bad as only believing the best?

[hmurchison]

Originally posted by MattHWU
Actually, I'm pretty sure you're all just complaining because he's the only Mac fanatic to have balls and tell the truth for once. Sorry, but when you live a lie in your 100% Mac-biased worlds, and you rip on one of your own for saying anything but good about an Apple product, then you're a damn sad person.


Muahahahahah you registered to write this? Your writing is as idiotic as manzione's. Who's "truth" is he telling? We don't know the man from a can of paint but lets just say Kosmos's reputation as a buffoon is well noted.

[Eugene]

Originally posted by MattHWU
Actually, I'm pretty sure you're all just complaining because he's the only Mac fanatic to have balls and tell the truth for once. Sorry, but when you live a lie in your 100% Mac-biased worlds, and you rip on one of your own for saying anything but good about an Apple product, then you're a damn sad person.
Funny, because I have been a witness to numerous examples of what I consider criminal behavior on John Manzione's part.

100% Mac world indeed...
http://ai.vectorwarrior.com/setup/eugene-setup.jpg

No...a sad person misthandles his own computer and creates a fictional account about how he's been anguished and wronged...x100. He's done this so man times before...it's getting old...and now he goes off on a tirade about everything Apple.

He's a a dishonest little kid.

[hmurchison]

I just sampled some of Matt's writing. Man this kids is a Rhodes Scholar!

You know, I find it funny how all of you blind Mac users call Winodws (or "Lindows, or "Wintel", as Windows is also reffered to, by the way, Lindows is a Linux OS, so you probably shouldn't call Windows that as it isn't the same thing) the "dark side". What's so dark about it? Sorry, but Microsoft has some of the best customer support you will ever find, makes a damn stable OS, and has some excellent products. It's called the truth, look into it.

???? this is incomprehensible Matt

As you may have realized, I am a PC user, but I am not just an ordinary ignorant PC user, I'm a computer hardware enthusiast.

Ahhhh so you're a hardware enthusiast who's NOT ignorant. Guess that explains the Pulitzer Class writing of yours huh? ;)

The latest G4, the 1.42GHz has a Front Side Bus of only 167MHz, while using up to PC2700 (DDR333) RAM. The RAM runs nearly twice the speed of the FSB, which limits the performance of Mac systems tremendously

You're almost there. You screwed up on the "RAM being twice as fast" I think what you mean to say is the FSB not being DDR limits the overall maximum throughput for data that must traverse the FSB. However Apple's system controller allows DMA access to memory at full memory bandwidth for plenty of items. See image.

http://a320.g.akamai.net/7/320/51/33a2bae05a86a4/www.apple.com/powermac/images/architecturetop08132002.jpg

Thanks Matt but we're all very aware of our own platform.

The only reason Apple has a 5% market is because 80% of their customers are schools, and because Microsoft has given them millions of dollars in financial support (to risk loosing the company as a competitor, and thus being claimed as a monopoly). Now I'll admit, the money part is a bit wrong, at least the reasoning behind it is, but hey, I never said I liked Bill Gates.

Phew glad you came back partially to your senses. You were sounding like Manzione Jr for a minute there. FYI Dell now has more of the Edu market according to statistics. However you readily admitted that you've written wrong info so we'll let that oversight slide.

I find it enjoyable, as do the hundreds of thousands of other OCers out there like myself. I enjoy pushing my hardware to the max, to the get the last MHz out of my CPU, to get the last 3DMark out of my video card, to get the last framerate out of my game, and I will be doing this all on my "evil Microsoft OS". I must mention, in the 2 years of using XP, it has only crashed twice on me.

Bingo Matt! That is the difference between a Mac user and Peecee user. While you're tweaking your Bios, adding plexiglass and neon lights to your ATX Box....Mac users are getting REAL work done. Thanks...you've summed it up very succinctly. I'm indebted to you. :smokey:

[NETROMac]

Originally posted by MattHWU
Sorry, but when you live a lie in your 100% Mac-biased worlds, and you rip on one of your own for saying anything but good about an Apple product, then you're a damn sad person. Thanks for sharing your taughts with us :no: . I for one don't live in a 100% "mac-biased" world. I use both macs and pc's regularly, own both a mac and a pc (in fact, I'm writing this on my XP-box right now because my girlfriend is doing some presentation work on my QS :grumble: ), and have to say that I never had any big problems with none of them. I simply prefer the mac. This is because of many reasons, some are obvious, like the slick user interface, the numerous little touches, the stability, while some are a little harder to lay a hand on. It has some undefined quality about it. And it gets work done, it never fails - at least - on me. Thats important. XP is good - by far the best os from MS - and seldom causes any troubles, but it simply doesn't attract me so much. Win-XP is "fast", the machines are cheap and get the work done, but they simply doesn't have that little extra that does the mac so much fun.

My point is - finally - that if you have been reading these boards for a while you would have seen that we have a fair amount of nuanced discussion about the mac vs the pc. A lot of people here have been criticizing the speed of Apples computers in the last few years, not entirely Apples fault but still a big problem. We have been discussing the OS, it's faults and failures, bugs and problems, but in a constructive manner, and if Apple is reading these boards they would probably have gotten a few ideas for improvements to various parts of the system and computer (or am I wrong ;) ). Some of us have had problems with our computers, but in my experience Apple has been very helpful and my problems (had to replace my performa 5200 mother board) were fixed without much hassle.
So whats up with this manzione guy. He seems to have had an extensive amout of problems with his computers. Is it his fault, I don't know, but he would have been much smarter to deal with this in a subtler way. He sure isn't making Apple happy and forthcoming with this behaviour. Claiming that Apple by will have damaged his computer. How likely is that :err: The best way to deal with companies in my opinion (and experience), is to talk to them in calm and respectful manner, be nice - and the person in the other end is more likely to be nice and forthcoming too. And if you look at how he's handling his PB, my god, it's not so strange that it broke. Look at the screen, how much force must you apply to make such damage. If I couldn't open my PB in a normal way, I would probably take it to the nearest retailer and have it looked at.
I have to say, that if there are someone thats qualified to have an opinion on the quality of macintoshes it must be the combined forces of these boars. Now we're close to 9000 members and a lot more macs. A lot of us have had problems, but have managed to work them out in better way than this manzione guy.
So the final word is, and I have probably said far too much already to answer your unfounded and immature post, that we welcome criticism that is well founded and discussed in a polite and constructive manner. Such criticism is only going to make the mac a better place to be in the coming years. Rants on the other hand are not constructive or very helpful, and I would place your post in that category. So Matt, if you have something constructive to say, go on, or else GO AWAY. :D

[Matrixxx]

You Mac People Make Me Laugh Because You think Your so high and migthy with your overpriced hardware and software which You use just to be part of a exclusive club.... but its okay when you bash Wintel Machines and M$, but when a man like John who uses Macs has something bad to say about them then Holy$hit you get upinarms and start calling him a lier because he may be telling the truth but you're too blind to see that your just like lemmings and following Your Leader Steve Jobs and his great plans for the future... well continue your puny little existance as Mac Zealots while the rest of the world keeps using M$ products.

P.S Keep Up the critisicm on all of M$ products its only helping it get better!

[NETROMac]

Originally posted by Matrixxx
you're too blind to see that your just like lemmings and following Your Leader Steve Jobs and his great plans for the future... lol :lol: - now, thats funny.

[Steve]

http://homepage.mac.com/ssfreitas/WTF4.jpg

[Lebensmüde]

I think it's worth posting this story about John's first mishap with a PowerBook. A bit long, but definitely worth reading. Puts his story with the 17" PB in a whole different perspective. (Cf. the original source at the end of the quote):

"My day begins at 5:45am. The very first thing I do each morning is reach for PowerBook, wake it up and read the email that piled up overnight. I place the PowerBook on a very thick pillow, on my lap, and work until 9am. It is the most productive time of the day for me, peaceful and quiet, with none of the distractions that ultimately come when I walk over to the office later in the morning and switch to my PowerMac for the remainder of the day. The day ends about 10pm, after switching back to the PowerBook about 7pm to finish up the days work with the west coast. I may use other Macs during the day, but it begins and ends with my PowerBook.

Yesterday morning I had finished a lengthy email to a PR contact when I lifted the PowerBook off the pillow and placed it on the nightstand, swung my legs off the bed and headed for the kitchen for my second cup of coffee. Unbeknownst to me I had mistakenly wrapped the power adapter around my leg and when I got out of bed I dragged the PowerBook off the nightstand and, in what felt like foreve, I watched in horror as my PowerBook was dragged off the nightstand and fell 24 inches to the carpeted floor below.

After screaming ?NO!!? at the top of my lungs I grabbed the PowerBook and with some panic began to examine it, looking for damage. I was relieved that I could not see any physical damage and I thought I had averted another disaster with yet another very expensive computer.

It wasn?t until last evening that I noticed a tiny gouge on the upper right edge of the top of the PowerBook. It looks as though someone might have taken a key and gouged out a bit of the metal. My heart sunk and as I was trying to write a letter I could not take my eyes off the damage. I kept rubbing it, hoping that somehow I would be able to rub the gouge out, slowly but surely getting more and more angry as I did so. Just as before, a fraction of a second in the life of my PowerBook forever changed it. Over two months of life with no scratches and no scuffmarks, and it was over in heartbeat.

But it gets worse. After I gave up rubbing the gouge I closed the PowerBook and noticed that where I had been rubbing the Titanium paint rubbed off as well. Now, in addition to a tiny gouge on the edge I have a 2-inch long area along the edge where the paint has rubbed off. I put the PowerBook on the nightstand, fell back into bed, closed my eyes and sank into a deep depression.

I just couldn?t get my head around the fact that this $3000 computer could be so easily damaged in a split second. I mean, the damn thing fell 24 inches to a thick carpet and suddenly the value of the computer decreased a few hundred dollars. Worse, the PowerBook no longer looks brand new, flawless, or perfect, as it had for more than two months. All I could think to do was to yell at Steve Jobs, something like ?WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??!!?? But then again, it wasn?t Steve Jobs that makes me continue to buy new PowerBooks, it was my falut that I kept buying a computer I knew was just too damn fragile to be of any practical use.

So now I am faced with a dilemma, do I call Apple and send it in to be fixed at the cost of $680.00 or do I sell it at a loss of at least $680 and buy one a 17? Aluminum PowerBook in hopes that Aluminum turns out to be tougher than Titanium, a metal that supposedly is stronger than steel but in reality is no stronger than play dough.

Because I realize I have an addiction, and that perhaps my judgment is clouded when it comes to PowerBooks, perhaps the answer is to ask you, my readers, what I should do.

Most people would be able to overlook this flaw in the PowerBook and move on, but I simply cannot. I just think that if you spend this kind of money for a PowerBook it needs to be able to take a 24? fall to the carpet without damage."

Source: John Manzione's Web Archive (January 2003) (http://www.macnet2.com/more.php?id=A261_0_1_0_M)

P. S. Note how it was the carpet's fault...

[Eugene]

Matrixxx... :rolleyes: We're not rabidly anti-PC or pro-Apple. We just know how to identify a quack when we see one.The topic of discussion is John Manzione's own carelessness and childish behavior. This has nothing to do with bias.

[Eugene]

Lebensmüde, in addition, note how the mishap occurs after the announcement of newer, better PowerBooks, and that his problem is not only the ding on the screen but the Titanium coating itself. Here he's probably attempting to justify a call to AppleCare to demand a trade-up from his 15" Titanium to a 17" Aluminum. It would only be fair for Apple to provide him with an equivalent machine that doesn't suffer from the Ti paint chipping problem...

Reminds me of how he demanded a GeForce4 Ti in exchange for his GeForce4 MX when he and I suffered from the screen flashes.

Reminds me of how he said he was worried his 22" Cinema Display would be destroyed by those flashes...and that he should get a 23 incher in exchange should anything go wrong.

...like clockwork, I tell ya.

AppleInsider Thread noting the GeForce4 MX problem (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3634)

The eventual fix: Mac OS X 10.1.5 (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=88423) - Knowledge Base article

Many reports of the screen flashes on XLR8YourMac (http://xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/geforce4MX_mac_problems.html) a quality Mac community website. Note my e-mail toward the bottom which already describes my disgust with Manzione's deceitful behavior. He posted devastating looking photos of something that clearly wasn't the same bug. Also note in the KBase article above which indicates the GeForce4 Ti he tried so hard to get also suffers from the bug.

The Apple Discussions Board thread is gone....I think John Manzione saved much of it, but I doubt he'd be willing to fork it over since it further incriminates him.

[Matsu]

After the ridiculous start to Macnet2, I pretty much wrote it off. But for some reason I wandered back there in the past two weeks, and thought hey, "heres a fun little soap opera." Now, however, I see that there's quite a little pattern to Mr Manzione's complaints about Apple. To that degree then, I actually kinda believe that he subconsiously "stress tests" his macs. And if he's had that many complaints to Apple in the past, probably to the same people, it's also probably true that someone at Apple was just a little too upset to deal with him for the Nth time. I dunno if anyone let his PB have it, but people in PR probably mentioned him and his habits. Thanks for the info Eugene. Still fun though. He has just enough cred to catch people out. I wonder how Apple will respond to him, if at all? With AppleTurns in a semi-hiatus, we need to look somewhere for our apple-drama fix!

[Lebensmüde]

Originally posted by Matsu
Now, however, I see that there's quite a little pattern to Mr Manzione's complaints about Apple. To that degree then, I actually kinda believe that he subconsiously "stress tests" his macs.
Does he "stress test" his Macs or does he "stress test" Apple's customer service?8)

[NETROMac]

Originally posted by Lebensmüde
Does he "stress test" his Macs or does he "stress test" Apple's customer service?8) A little bit of both I guess :p

[Eugene]

Come on Matsu. You don't buy his story do you? He has pictures, sure, but none of them show any of the stickered parts seen in the video. There's one very blurry photo of the upper left corner of the base, but in the video you can't really identify the damage there.

It sounds suspiciously like he dropped his 17 inch PowerBook one night just like he dropped his 15 incher...only this time the screen broke and he needed a major excuse.

Just look over his history again and again and again.

[alcimedes]

yeah, i also have to wonder about someone who "suddenly noticed" that two inches of paint were gone where he'd been busy rubbing it.

if you notice that you're rubbing the paint off, don't you STOP?!?

guys a jackass looking for a handout, IMO.

[fred_lj]

For a person to accidentally throw their laptop off a nightstand and then be mad at the company behind it or even its distant CEO is really absurd.

This guy needs to start treating his computing equipment for what it is ---- delicate, oh so very delicate, balances of miraculous electronics and engineering. They're not Hummers.

Perhaps this is what John needs to look into: http://www.panasonic.com/computer/notebook/

[MattHWU]

Ah, funny... I admitted my own writing was wrong? Not quite. Actually, what I said was that it was somewhat pathetic of Microsoft to give Apple's sorry excuse for an ass money to keep it afloat just to save Microsoft from another Anti-Trust suit.

Sorry pal, but last I checked, "adding plexi and cathodes to my ATX case" was part of my job description. That is the work that I get done, if your ignorant Mac Zealot self didn't realize, there is a very large market for case modders. Hell, hardware enthusiast sites receive tens of thousands of hits per day, which in turn generates profit for people such as myself. It's called economics, you should've taken it in high school.

John is simply explaining what has become of Apple, and while I don't agree with everything he's ever said, I do agree with everything in his article, as he is the only one who has the balls to come out and speak the truth. He doesn't care what Apple thinks, but you're all too afraid Steve Jobs will stop sucking your cocks to tell the truth. If you people honestly want to sit there and criticize me and my platform of choice, choose an arguement that carries some weight.

Oh yeah, and if you really want to tell me how evil Bill Gates is or how PCs suck or whatever you Mac freaks do, go right ahead, as I'm fairly certain I can prove just about anything negative you have to say wrong.

I have nothing to hide about a PC, and I won't be too afraid to admit weaknesses both in hardware and in Windows itself. If you bring a valid arguement about a PC's incapabilities to my attention I'll be more then happy to battle it out with you; I won't sit there playing dumb and ignoring something I know to be true, that's the job of the people who regularly post on this forum.

And before you go saying so, I do not condone anything else John has said outside of that one article, so please don't bring that powerbook bullshit into this. He could be lying for all I know, but frankly I don't care. When your company has 5% of the market share, you can't afford to **** up in any area, especially not with customer support, or the quality of the audio on the music network that you created in a last-ditch effort to save your horribly failing company.

[Matsu]

A.) it's not 5% it's about 2.5%.

B.) Apple isn't horribly failing, it's slowly (but profitably) fading.

If trends continue, the mac may be in jeopardy within the next 6-8 years, but not Apple. With money in the bank and some diversification potential, they're fine.

Also, there is enough reason to believe that long term trends may finally start to slowly reverse. Apple is UP! with consumers, and they're building alternative revenue sources (stores, music didtribution, lifestyle devices). If they hadn't been ass-kicked so badly in edu we might have already been looking at a company with a true 5% worldwide. Applestores UK, japan, Canada shoulod bolster those markets in the next two years. If music is big, and it looks like it will be, mac looks good to recover, and Apple won't have to change too much from what they are now.

[Steve]

I'd say that a lot of people here are technology enthusiasts like I am. They've a good deal of knowledge beneath those skulls about tech trends and processor design, and that sort of thing. They own a Mac or get excited about whatever the next Mac products may be coming out not because they might enjoy fellating a man in a black turtleneck; I know I sure don't.

I'm just in love with OS X and its various technologies and the beauty of the machines that Apple creates. As soon as Apple stops making things that I enjoy or when it's just not economically viable to buy Apple hardware at a ridiculously inflated price (I don't think they're doing too bad now, except for the PowerMac), and, of course, I can get OS X on a PC near me, then I will stop buying their products. Until then, though, they've done me, and apparently quite a few others here, a lot of good. So why don't we stop acting all immature about it?

And for the record, I've only been a Mac user since 2001.

[MattHWU]

Originally posted by NETROMac
He sure isn't making Apple happy and forthcoming with this behaviour.

Good point, and that's all that matters to you, isn't it? Making Apple happy. "Oh my God, Apple isn't happy! Let's buy more of their underpowered, overpriced systems to make them happier!" You know, I couldn't care if Apple were happy. Don't take that as Anti-Mac either, because I don't care if Bill Gates is happy either, or if Micrsoft, Intel, AMD, Abit, Dell, Gateway, etc. See a pattern? I don't give a damn of some company is happy, I don't base my articles, forum posts, and life on pleasing a company and telling them what they want to hear. You really should cut out the personal attacks and focus on the actual arguement. Oh yeah, and whoever the sorry Mac Zealot was who posted about the DMA allowing the PC2700 to access "plenty of things" at full speed misses the point: it is a CPU bottleneck to not allow it to access the RAM at the RAM's speed. You don't know your own platform, you only know what you've been paid by Apple to know.

[NETROMac]

Originally posted by MattHWU
Good point, and that's all that matters to you, isn't it? Making Apple happy. "Oh my God, Apple isn't happy! Let's buy more of their underpowered, overpriced systems to make them happier!" You know, I couldn't care if Apple were happy. Don't take that as Anti-Mac either, because I don't care if Bill Gates is happy either, or if Micrsoft, Intel, AMD, Abit, Dell, Gateway, etc. See a pattern? I don't give a damn of some company is happy, I don't base my articles, forum posts, and life on pleasing a company and telling them what they want to hear. You really should cut out the personal attacks and focus on the actual arguement. Oh yeah, and whoever the sorry Mac Zealot was who posted about the DMA allowing the PC2700 to access "plenty of things" at full speed misses the point: it is a CPU bottleneck to not allow it to access the RAM at the RAM's speed. You don't know your own platform, you only know what you've been paid by Apple to know. Talk about heated debate ;)

[hmurchison]

John is simply explaining what has become of Apple, and while I don't agree with everything he's ever said, I do agree with everything in his article, as he is the only one who has the balls to come out and speak the truth. He doesn't care what Apple thinks, but you're all too afraid Steve Jobs will stop sucking your cocks to tell the truth. If you people honestly want to sit there and criticize me and my platform of choice, choose an arguement that carries

How can you agree? Manzione did not have anything factual to back his claims. Somewho I'm supposed to throw away the results of a Million downloaders of AAC files because John and some idiot from MSnbc says AAC sucks "Big Time" ? He was rambling Matt...he had nothing to back his statements up. I don't know how YOU gather information but I try not to base mine on subjective writing. Many of us here at Appleinsider have PCs ..we have varying levels of praise for Jobs. However you seen adept at painting us all as Jobs Worshippers. How could you presume to know that in only 3 posts?

Oh yeah, and if you really want to tell me how evil Bill Gates is or how PCs suck or whatever you Mac freaks do, go right ahead, as I'm fairly certain I can prove just about anything negative you have to say wrong.

Stop it! hahaha you're making me laugh here. You came over here looking for a fight didn't you? May I suggest the Battlefront on arsetechnica.com. Here we refute claims that we don't believe in and we debate vigorously but we don't engage in Platform wars on a large scale. PCs are fine but we feel Macs are better. No amount of fighting is needed because as long as we're happy with it then that's all that is required.

And before you go saying so, I do not condone anything else John has said outside of that one article, so please don't bring that powerbook bullshit into this. He could be lying for all I know, but frankly I don't care. When your company has 5% of the market share, you can't afford to **** up in any area, especially not with customer support, or the quality of the audio on the music network that you created in a last-ditch effort to save your horribly failing company.

LOL. I'm sure Jobs needs all the help he can get from a 17yr old PC Modder. Matt you weren't even ALIVE when the Mac was announced. I think that speaks volumes about your experience.

Mac Zealot was who posted about the DMA allowing the PC2700 to access "plenty of things" at full speed misses the point: it is a CPU bottleneck to not allow it to access the RAM at the RAM's speed. You don't know your own platform, you only know what you've been paid by Apple to know.

No you said RAM runs at twice the speed of the FSB and said this limits the throughput...well no shit sherlock but I added that that affects data that must cross the FSB while items with DMA can bypass the FSB. Why don't shutup...sitdown and get the chip off your shoulder. I got shoes older than you kid LOL. You ain't no different than the average teenager. You're too young to realize you don't know anything. We have a guy that's been around these boards since being a Teen. His name is Applenut. I think he's a little sharper than you though or at the least was able to communicate more effectively. Well you'll learn that soon enough..hopefully.

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by MattHWU
I don't give a damn of some company is happy, I don't base my articles, forum posts, and life on pleasing a company and telling them what they want to hear.

What articles?

[Amorph]

Don't feed the trolls, kids. It only makes them come back for more.

(UNIX user since 1986, Mac user since 1986, PC user since 1992)

[MattHWU]

Originally posted by NETROMac
Talk about heated debate ;)

Talk about not knowing what you're talking about. =P

[der Kopf]

Drug user since 1995. Toilet paper user since the late seventies.

[MattHWU]

hmurchison, do you ever know what you're talking about? When I mention a CPU being bottlenecked because of shitty FSB, you don't sit there and try and change the subject. The reason you're all so pissed with John is because he says what is true, and for once a PC community listens to what an ignorant Mac user has to say. John only states things that we PC users have known for the longest of times. As far as the "bold MS in the MSNBC" thing goes, that's pathetic, as if you ask any PC user, almost any of us will admit to hating Bill Gates, and even Microsoft. Why don't you try actually sticking to the arguement at hand for a change? That may help you, just a little. I have a suggestion for you Apple Insider loosers: the next time you receive a check from Apple, don't cash it. That way, when I accuse you of saying you are paid by Apple you won't be lying when you say you aren't. Then, once you do that, the following check is all yours to cash.

[BuonRotto]

What articles?

[hmurchison]

Matty you are a piece of work. :rolleyes:

[der Kopf]

Originally posted by MattHWU
When I mention a CPU being bottlenecked because of shitty FSB, you don't sit there and try and change the subject.
So what? This has been mentioned about ONE MILLION times on these very boards you're doing your best to antagonize. What do you want to hear? Oooooh, that John, he's SOOO smart, WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT!? Strange that this never came up in any of the 346000 posts to date. You and John, you deserve some kind of Nobel price.

The reason you're all so pissed with John is because he says what is true, and for once a PC community listens to what an ignorant Mac user has to say.

Uh-uh :no:

The reason people are fed up with this whiney moron is because he self handedly wrecks a beautiful piece of equipment, tries to blame it on the company, doesn't get the proper results and then does a 180 on his stance versus Apple. Where Apple could do no wrong, they suddenly can do no right. The reason being his maladroitness. Plenty of people criticizing Apple here on a regular basis. Right, Matsu? But most do so to foster legit discussion, not because out of some personal pent-up frustration.

I have a suggestion for you Apple Insider loosers: the next time you receive a check from Apple, don't cash it. That way, when I accuse you of saying you are paid by Apple you won't be lying when you say you aren't. Then, once you do that, the following check is all yours to cash.

:???:

Why don't you try your luck at sticking your tongue up your arse? Don't get me wrong though, I just don't like to be insulted by a keyboard shuffling waterhead.

[Matsu]

Is the argument that mac is in trouble? Yep, can't really disagree, though there's reason for hope.

or

Is the argument that mac is in trouble because Manzione is pissed about his PB17? Then there is no hope, for Manzione.

Is it too late to IBL my own thread!

No one has been more pessimistic about Apple than me, but all along I have always said that they have the stuff to make good if they can just get competitive prices. Performance swings from one side to the other, macs were far faster once, PC desktops are much faster now. In 6 months, PC laptops may have better run time and unplugged performance than the best PPC, and the best desktop PPC will probably trounce Intel. Back and forth. Price is the bottom line here, Apple needs to learn this.

The rest of your ranting Matt, is clearly trollage. At least do it well. Read my threads, two pages on a subject I never really believed to begin with. See how it's done. Now go find yor own bridge to live under.

Marketshare is reaching a critical point, but the consumer upswing is reason for hope. If they could get the edu numbers back, and get pro customers buying again, and make a retail presence in markets that matter, Canada (not just cause I live here, but because we make great per capita use of the internet and our computer buying compares very favorably with the USA), the UK, and Japan, just to start.

[Amorph]

I will only say this one more time.

Do.

Not.

Feed.

The.

Trolls.

Those would be the juveniles drinking the "Mac users are all ignorant and worthless" Kool-Aid.

[der Kopf]

What can I say, the troll caught me. I'm sorry, and embarrassed.:embarrass

[hmurchison]

Got it Amorph ;)

[MattHWU]

lmao, ok Mac freaks. You do that. =P

[DoctorGonzo]

This is why I love taking my iBook to my local Apple Store.

I've had a number of odd problems with it, but they know me well enough that I don't get any suspicious treatment from them. They know if something is broken, that it is almost certainly an accident or fault in the hardware itself.

The reaction I usually get from them is one of amazement that my machine is in such great shape after a year.

[NETROMac]

Manzione's (http://macnet2.com/more.php?id=341_0_1_0_M) at it again.

If you don't bother to read it that's okay but don't flame me for bringing this up again.

Some bits from the article:
(Isn’t it ironic that Microsoft will show off technology that isn’t due for 18 months while Apple keeps everything secret until it’s officially announced? Want to know what’s in Panther? Wait for the WWDC.) I think both we as mac users, and Jobs, like to be surprised. What's the fun of a new os release when everybody knows what it's about. Apple also needs to keep it's secrets close at heart so the competition won't copy it before Apple can make use of it to tell people that "this is why the mac is a better choice for you" and "we innovate".
You might be surprised that many PC users are not looking forward to Longhorn. The serious PC user, the ones who care more about raw speed then good looks are dreading this new OS. Their biggest complaint? Eye Candy.The hardcore guys maybe, but I think consumers like eye candy, and it's one of the main reason why people want to update their system. New features and better looks are important to people. Performance is also important, but for the average joe the performance is no problem with most of todays hardware.
I’ve seen an early build of Longhorn in action and I was very impressed. Right now, 18 months before the ship date, Longhorn is more capable than OS X 10.0 was.But Longhorn is not a COMPLETELY new os for microsoft. I think 10.0 was more of a preview of os X, a gift to early adopters and people who like to play with new stuff, than Apple trying to release a "complete" operating system. It just was important for them to reasure people that they were working on something really cool and that had great potential. Heck, even Apple has said this. It's more of a evolution, and most features in the current bulids are also present in XP.
But Microsoft has not been standing still, they’ve been learning, thinking, and scheming. Faced with looking at an OS that was surely more capable than Windows, 10 times more stable than Windows (some say), and knowing full well that the ‘eye candy’ offered by OS X was eliciting a lot of “oohs and ahhhs” from millions of potential customers Microsoft made a smart move…bring that ubiquitous computer future to market sooner rather than later. Apple isn't standing still either. Longhorn is 18 months away, and a few months will probably be added to that as time goes. We've now had a decent os for about a year and we have panther around the corner. Noone outside of Apple knows anything about panther. We don't know anything about speed, features or what kind of new eye candy Apple has come up with. But there will probably be addes some cool new effects, further refinements of the user interface will be showed. Speed will be improved, and it will bring 64 bit computing (hopefully) to the general public. There will probably be a lot of "oohs and ahhhs" from thousands of potential customers, and I think a lot of people will finally take the jump from os 9. Persuaded by both hardware and software this time. Many people may also have to buy new machines to run xPress, and not before long consumers will have the ability to buy powerful new computers in the form of the "iMac 64".
Gates even previewed a concept PC built by Microsoft and HP that many Mac and PC users have scoffed at but many consumers are drooling over. The PC just looks cool. But this is a prototype. Apple could probably have showed us a thousand of "really cool" looking computers too, but I think it's more important what acutally reaches the market. I think the current line up is quite cool, and it can only get better.
Longhorn is still in the alpha stages and the feature set hasn’t even been locked yet (at least that is what I have been told), so any argument about Panther or the next ‘cat’ coming from Apple by the time Longhorn ships just doesn’t matter. But, even in it’s alpha stage Longhorn works.Huh :err:
When Longhorn ships the average person will see no discernible difference between it and OS X-whatever. I wouldn't bet on that. Thats two new big cats from Apple. Who knows what they can come up with before that. Aqua as we know it may only be a "proof of concept" and with Quartz Extreme already being put to work on most macs running os X today, it may reach a refinement and speed in two years that can match or surpass everyting that comes out of Redmond. By that time we'll also have much more powerful processors, at least in the form of the 980, and with the 990 around the corner. Exiting times this will be.
In order to keep their current user base in tact Apple must face up to the fact that in 18 months or less there will be no discernible difference to the average consumer between a Mac and a PC.But there isn't much difference today either. Not many of my friends can tell a pc from a mac, but if they manage to stay at the current market share or maybe rise just a little that will be enough for me.
Mac users should understand that this was inevitable, the day that computer platforms merged was only a matter of time, and that time is 2005. It’s not speculation, it’s not wishful thinking, and it’s not necessarily doom and gloom for Apple. It is, however, very real. If Apple doesn’t understand this, if Apple is not ready to do whatever it can to keep its core user base, the only thing left for Apple to market with be Apple’s Logo, whatever that’s worth.I think Apple is very aware of the threat from Redmond in the shape of longhorn. With MS doing frequent leaks and showing off new features Apple does not have much of a problem keeping track on the evolution of the new windows os. It will be interesting to see how Apple tackles this, and I think we'll see a little preview with the release of panther. And if Apple improves os X at the same rate it has done in the last few years, I don't fear this scenario very much. I think you will be able to tell Apples from oranges in 2005 too. Who knows what cool stuff Apple has come up with before then.

[hmurchison]

It's just another fluff piece from Manzione. His "new" writing style is simplistic. He tends to ramble on and on but never backs his data up. After wasting minutes of my life reading this I know NOTHING more about Longhorn than before I started reading other than it supposedly will match an OSX version which hasn't even been started.

Then there's the obligatory "Manzione Rant" inserted in the ending about Apple Customer Service.

Ahhhhh remember Microsofts "Chrome" technology that was supposed to revolutionize the Web Graphics. Remember Farenheit? MS and SGI working together. Bah....MS is for itself on only itself. Longhorn will be nothing special that Mac users will envy. My God 18 months? That's Panther...and then another yearly update and then halfway towards the successor to Panther Successor LOL. Somebody wake me up when there is some real news.

[trebuchet]

Hmmm. I could post my long story about my little dilemna with my Powerbook. Here is the email I sent yesterday to Apple:

Subject: My Powerbook Dilemna

To whom it may concern:

This is a story of what has happened thus far with my 12" Powerbook I purchased very recently and why I am very frustrated with the situation.

I purchased my 12" Powerbook, 40 gig, Combo drive model, from an Apple retailer on April 18th, 2003. I sold my 800 mhz iBook and was excited about stepping up to a G4. I drove 3 hours to a reliable retailer to pick up my new computer. I got home and was very excited about installing my software and personal data and seeing what it could do. That excitement was quickly stifled when my Powerbook stopped accepting discs into the slot loader. Yes, only after inserting 4 discs, the slot loading mechanism had failed. I called on 4/19 to get it fixed and they sent me a box to send it in for repair. I packaged it very carefully, following the enclosed instructions fully and even going so far as to insert a thin piece of foam between the screen and keyboard. I wanted to protect my new investment from any damage. It took a while for that fix, I am assuming, because they needed to order parts (it was on hold for about a week).

I received my computer back May 1, 2003. I opened the case expecting to see the computer I had only used for a few hours, in brand new condition. I was shocked to see my computer had been abused during the repair process. It had not been packaged with the same care I had put into it, most notably missing the piece of foam between the keyboard and screen. When I put it on my desk, I noticed a small one inch long scratch in my LCD screen. Then I noticed my keyboard wasn't flat anymore, lifted quite noticeably above where the repair was done on my computer. I was furious. My brand new computer was scratched up and in nowhere near the same condition as when I sent it off for repair. I could not send it in immediately because I am attending college and had data on my computer essential to my studies. When I felt I could be without my computer for an extended period of time, I called AppleCare Support and voiced my disappointment with the damage done to my computer.

The first person I spoke with suggested I take it to the store I bought it from and ask them to exchange it. First, I told her, I was not about to drive 200 miles to have the store I purchased the machine from deal with a mistake Apple made. That wouldn't be fair to them at all. She offered me no other solution to my problem. I was pretty upset about how it was handled and decided to call back the next day, hoping to hear of other options. I spoke to a gentleman the next day and he was quite helpful. He said that they would send a repair box for me and that they would replace the LCD and fix my keyboard. I packed it up exactly as I had done before and sent it off.

I sent my computer off May 14th and received it back quite quickly. I got it today, May 19th, and opened the box up only to be disappointed again. The LCD was replaced, but the screen assembly was not put back together properly. There is a sizable gap between the lid and the plastic moulding on the screen. I am afraid to squeeze it back together myself for fear of damaging the screen. The top of the computer case is also scratched up a bit. Not incredibly bad, but frustrating nonetheless. Then there is the issue with the keyboard: It does not appear to be fixed at all, the keys still lifted on the right hand side, just as they were when I sent it off the second time. I noticed, once again, no foam padding to protect my screen during shipment.

I have owned this computer a total of 30 days. I have had it in a somewhat useable condition for 13 of those days. The rest of the time, it has been in transit or in repair. So you should be able to understand why I am so frustrated. If my computer had just been fixed and handled properly the first time, I wouldn't be writing about it now. Then I thought the second time I sent it in, they would be more careful to fix it properly. But it wasn't handled properly and I am beyond frustrated with how this has been handled.

I really like Apple products. I have used them professionally in the printing industry and for personal use at home for years. I think OSX is the greatest OS yet. I have convinced a few people to jump ship and give Macs a try because of my praises. But now, I am having second thoughts. This ordeal has caused me a lot of trouble and put me in a tough spot, as I am a college student that heavily relies on having a computer at my disposal whenever necessary. Thats what was so appealing about the new Powerbooks: Small, portable and within reason on a college student's budget. But I haven't even had it long enough to know how good it is. I honestly haven't even had the chance to use it outside my home. So you can see why I would be angry about the screen and case getting scratched. It has had to go back twice, both during critical times for me in school. Once during an important essay and once during midterms. Having your data and the freedom to work with it when you want to taken away causes a lot of stress.

This is why I wrote instead of calling AppleCare Service. I feel I need to talk to someone thats going to get me results. I do not want to go without a computer again. It was brought to my attention that if this computer needed repair again, within 60 days of this repair, it would be replaced with a new machine. I think it may take more than that to make me happy. I cannot believe the trouble I have gone through, with a new machine, and it just gets worse. I have only had this thing in my hands for 13 days and its beat up. For a computer thats sat in one place on a desk, it should still look new and continue to look new for quite a while. I find it hard to believe that I would have to get the same things repaired twice.

I would very much like to talk to someone about how to resolve this matter. Feel free to email me or call.
Stacy A Schrag
xxx-xxx-xxxx

Here are my Dispatch ID numbers:
xxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx

Needless to say, I received a call from one of the higher Apple execs today and I was very well taken care of. When I made my previous claims with Apple, I never got angry or demanded anything extrta. I just wanted my computer fixed and in the condition it should be after only having it for a total of 13 days. I am getting a new machine in a few days, with a hard drive bump up to 60 gigs, free of charge. I also have 30 days to transfer data and get the original unit back to them. The gentleman I talked to appreciated my patience in the whole matter. I have no complaints about how this has been handled. I guess I'm not labeled as a "problem customer" like someone we know.
What goes around, comes around. This guy with his broken machines sounds like a total jackass.

[jante99]

trebuchet: You offer a good moral for the story: If you act decently towards Apple and don't publicize every single problem you have on the interent, Apple, or any company for that matter, will probably follow through also and offer you a the solution you propose as long as it is reasonable. Sometimes you just have to go through multiple people.

The angrier you get, the worse the service.

[Lebensmüde]

Originally posted by trebuchet
This guy with his broken machines sounds like a total jackass.
Like I've written elsewhere: Being a jackass both feeds his ego and guarantees him lots of hits at his Apple bashing site.