73% Plants & Animals lost in Singapore

[Fellowship]

Singapore has lost up to 73 percent of its plants and animals over the last two centuries...
World Conservation Union (IUCN) figures estimate that 77 percent of the island's remaining butterflies, fish, birds, mammals, and other species are threatened
The analysis that species that may have been lost include as many as 4,866 plants, 627 butterflies, 234 fish, 111 reptiles, and 91 mammals. Since 1923 alone, 61 of the 91 known forest-bird species have died out. As much as 73 percent of the island's original biota (flora and fauna) has been extirpated.

Taken from this LINK (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/07/0723_030723_singapore.html)

This is really alarming and tragic... What are your thoughts and ideas as to what we can do to change this awful trend?

Thanks for your consideration,

Fellowship

[Eugene]

Singapore's only 270 sq. miles in area. It's highly urbanized and populated, so I don't find this at all surprising. I wonder what percentage of indigenous wildlife and plantlife unique to the modern NYC, SF, LA, etc. metro areas have been made extinct.

[rok]

depressing, mostly. having moved down to louisiana, you can see around my area where HUGE tracts (sp?) of land are being gobbled up by about a million gas stations, office parks, home depots, etc. they say they're building it because everyone is moving here. then again, everyone's moving here because they can feel like they're moving to the "country," but still have easy access to all that.

i know no one cares, but in many ways, slidell is another local community that looks like it was overdeveloped about 8-10 years ago, driving out tons of wildlife in favor of shiny new strip malls, which then eventually went under because the supply outstripped demand, it lost that small town "country feel" that attracted everyone in the first place, and now no one wants to reclaim the land.

now you see the ultra-sad dance of a grocery store which was obviously at one point a gas station, pet store, and restaurant in its brief history, and the sun beats down on the concrete and pavement all day, and bakes this city alive. it's laughable how many new subdivisions are under water during every afternoon thunderstorm, because every jackass with a contracting permit allow some of these houses to be built where they are, the city councils are more than willing to whore themselves out for the big money, and they keep filling in marshes to make ground for "oak hollow" and "green rivers" subdivisions. so where did all the people who had enough money move to to get away from slidell, but still feel like they were in the "country" and still be able to drive to their jobs out there?

yup, my neck of the woods. and the commercial spots and industries followed them here. i am sure once they've finished raping this little town for all its worth, they'll move onto some smaller towns west of here. sigh...

i mean, i understand that the two sides feed off each other, and the realtors are more than willing to sell acres without conscience, but when does common sense kick in and say "do i really need to bulldoze ten acres of land for a target 15 minutes away when there's one 25 minutes away???"

thankfully, though, i am fully confident that between wacko diseases spreading into new areas of the world and dramatic weather/climate changes, people will begin to learn that if you f*ck with mother nature, she will f*ck back.

for example, from my old home in florida, remember hurricane andrew? sure, it was a big mother of a hurricane, but anyone who's lived in florida will tell you we've felt worse. but for some reason, it flattened miami. correction: it flattened the suburbs of miami, which were composed of houses so flimsy, they make my old treehouse look solid. and the insurance companies looked the other way when housing codes were violated, then couldn't cover the wreckage. and all of these middle-to-lower income families that got dazzled by promises of finally owning their own home were homeless and bankrupt. meanwhile, all the OLD houses around southern florida that had been there for a hundred years, built by people who knew where AND how to build a house were still standing. a little water damage, a fallen tree here and there, but nothing like the carnage in those cookie cutter subdivisions. i wonder how many animal species were driven into an overpopulated 'glades to make room for that fiasco. and then mommy wonders why little jimmy got attacked by an alligator in the backyard. hmmm, maybe it's because you bought a house built 5 feet away from a creek that is 100 yards away from a swamp?!? damn gator gets a bullet through his head, when all he was doing was trying to figure out why all the muskrats seemed to have left.

anyway, that's my "earth is getting overdeveloped" rant that i have been wanting to get off my chest. carry on with your daily programming...

[gobble gobble]

As Eugene noted, Singapore covers a very small area. Wouldn't nearly all of their flora and fauna also be found in Malaysia and Indonesia?

I don't intend to downplay the loss of habitat or the need to preserve biodiversity, but why focus on Singapore and not the regional picture. Animals and plants don't acknowledge political borders.


Edit - here's another useful link on this story from the BBC. While the numbers about Singapore may be accurate, anyone who projects deforestation rates out to 2100 is a fool. That smacks of scare-mongering.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3090071.stm

[Eugene]

Originally posted by gobble gobble
That smacks of scare-mongering.
Yup, and FCiB is just pretending to be more moderate than he actually is with a generic save the rainforests/whales plea. :lol:

I kid, I kid!

[Powerdoc]

Originally posted by Eugene
Singapore's only 270 sq. miles in area. It's highly urbanized and populated, so I don't find this at all surprising. I wonder what percentage of indigenous wildlife and plantlife unique to the modern NYC, SF, LA, etc. metro areas have been made extinct.

This is a logical argument. higly urbanized aera, are not good for the biologic diversity.

[Aquafire]

What else can we expect from a city state that is a hub for illegal trade in endangered species, where tiger bones are ground up for " chinese traditional medicine " , along with bear gall,( bears kept in tiny cages & glands prodded daily to make wounds seep) ivory, and just about any other piece of wildlife ( marine & land ) that they can get their greedy hands on...

Same goes for Hong-Kong....
I know I'll be accused of being racist in saying this but...
some aspects of asian culture are truly stupid & backward..:\

[Eugene]

Originally posted by aquafire
What else can we expect from a city state that is a hub for illegal trade in endangered species, where tiger bones are ground up for " chinese traditional medicine " , along with bear gall,( bears kept in tiny cages & glands prodded daily to make wounds seep) ivory, and just about any other piece of wildlife ( marine & land ) that they can get their greedy hands on...

Same goes for Hong-Kong....
I know I'll be accused of being racist in saying this but...
some aspects of asian culture are truly stupid & backward..:\
Save that argument for when it's relevant. The extinction of the plants and animals FCiB mentioned is by and large due to the destruction of habitat and not poaching/illegal trade/hunting...

[Aquafire]

Originally posted by Eugene
Save that argument for when it's relevant. The extinction of the plants and animals FCiB mentioned is by and large due to the destruction of habitat and not poaching/illegal trade/hunting...

It's profoundly connected Eugene.

If " think locally : act globally " doesn't make any sense to you then we don't stand a chance.

[Eugene]

Originally posted by aquafire
It's profoundly connected Eugene.

If " think locally : act globally " doesn't make any sense to you then we don't stand a chance.

And this has what to with anything?

It's only profoundly connected if you want to argue for the sake of arguing. You're pointing the finger at Singapore and Hong Kong for doing nothing to stop poaching and the use of endangered animal parts in traditional Asian medicine when the topic is the encroachment of human civilization.

Since western civilization is likewise pushing animals to extinction in highly urbanized regions, your argument falls flat on its big red baboon ass.

In other words, tell my how the slow extinction of the Snowy Plover in the SF Bay Area can be blamed on the use of severed Bengal Tiger penises in old Chinese medicine.

[Fellowship]

Thanks for all the great feedback so far! I just wanted to be clear that I was not meaning to bring attention to Singapore so much as bring attention to modern trends being at odds with bio-diversity.

rok had a great reply with the example of Louisiana. It really is an issue of local action being needed.

Thanks for all imput,

Fellowship

[Smircle]

Originally posted by gobble gobble
As Eugene noted, Singapore covers a very small area. Wouldn't nearly all of their flora and fauna also be found in Malaysia and Indonesia?

While you are right about Singapore, I have been to Malaysia and it is scary...
They are destroying their biodiversity at a record rate to make space for an exploding KL and cash crops like palm trees. You can drive hours and hours without seeing any rainforest, only palm trees right to the horizon.

In a way, I can understand why they are doing this - the industrialized nations (at least here in Europe) have had over a century to destroy their natural habitat and get rich. Now the developing countries want their share even if it means selling their natural treasures so that we can have palm fat to fry burgers...

But it is sad, nonetheless.

[Aquafire]

Originally posted by Eugene
And this has what to with anything?

It's only profoundly connected if you want to argue for the sake of arguing. You're pointing the finger at Singapore and Hong Kong for doing nothing to stop poaching and the use of endangered animal parts in traditional Asian medicine when the topic is the encroachment of human civilization.

Since western civilization is likewise pushing animals to extinction in highly urbanized regions, your argument falls flat on its big red baboon ass.

In other words, tell my how the slow extinction of the Snowy Plover in the SF Bay Area can be blamed on the use of severed Bengal Tiger penises in old Chinese medicine.

Ripple effect..Butterfly effect..call it whatever.

But the deforestation of the planet, along with the loss of boidiversity has EVERYTHING to do with intensely over-populated / polluted environments.

You ask what is the connection between the excinction of snowy plovers in California ( sorry to hear about that ) & Bengal tigers...simple ..exploitation, profiteering & wilful ignorance..

.....a potent mixture in anybody's language....

Every species lost diminishes our future. :\

[Eugene]

Originally posted by aquafire
Ripple effect..Butterfly effect..call it whatever.

But the deforestation of the planet, along with the loss of boidiversity has EVERYTHING to do with intensely over-populated / polluted environments.

You ask what is the connection between the excinction of snowy plovers in California ( sorry to hear about that ) & Bengal tigers...simple ..exploitation, profiteering & wilful ignorance..

.....a potent mixture in anybody's language....

Every species lost diminishes our future. :\
Yes, this is precisely what *I* was talking about, but it wasn't what you were talking about. Your first reply made no mention of pollution, industrialization, deforestation and whatever else. These are not inherently linked to the poaching of endangered animals.

The eventual extinction of the Snowy Plover will not be the fault of Singaporeans, so there's no point in singling them out.

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by FellowshipChurch iBook
What are your thoughts and ideas as to what we can do to change this awful trend?

Fewer humans. Really. Population control is the future (and, no, I don't mean genocide, I mean birth control).

[Moogs]

Eugene has the proper perspective on this. I'm sure it's not at all uncommon. The difference is the exotic nature of the native species there. The animals that are being wiped out are probably not large in number (anywhere), whereas the animals wiped out by our cities here tend to be more populous in nearby rural areas.

That said, all strip mall developers must die. Nothing is making our nation uglier or more traffic-ridden than the rise of the strip mall. Sometimes they are a necessity in out-of-the-way areas, but in suburban areas they are so profuse as to be nauseating IMO.

[Aquafire]

Originally posted by Eugene
Yes, this is precisely what *I* was talking about, but it wasn't what you were talking about. Your first reply made no mention of pollution, industrialization, deforestation and whatever else. These are not inherently linked to the poaching of endangered animals.

The eventual extinction of the Snowy Plover will not be the fault of Singaporeans, so there's no point in singling them out.

Stop thinking in neat packages Eugene...The world isn't seperate little boxes of problems.

The problems that we face locally are often part of the larger global picture...The killing of endangered species whether as a deliberate outcome of exploitation or the outcome of enviromental degredation or wanton destruction of habitat is all profoundly connected...

It's the mindset I am talking about..try to think of it as stepping out of your paradigm..

And I emphasise the mantra...Exploitation,Profiteering & wilful ignorance...

But your correct in that I should have been a little clearer in the first place..

I write these things with the greatest respect.:)

[Eugene]

Gosh, shut up already. Again, YOU were the one that picked out ONE group of people to blame. Who was the one not thinking locally? Globally? At all? Stop responding with the same generic nonsense you already used.

[Aquafire]

Originally posted by Eugene
Gosh, shut up already. Again, YOU were the one that picked out ONE group of people to blame. Who was the one not thinking locally? Globally? At all? Stop responding with the same generic nonsense you already used.

This Post was about Singapore. I didn't post it...

I originally made comment about the illegal trade that goes on in that city along with Hong-Kong. To whit : It goes with the entire cultural mindset..

If your culture tells you its OK to exploit endagered species, then it isn't much of a leap to appreciate the same attitude of " I couldn't Give a flying F**ck " for the enviroment locally also applies.

So get off your high horse Eugene...your making an arse of yourself
:mad:

[Eugene]

And I'll say it for the last time. You're vilifying one group because you've inflated the significance of poaching and East Asian traditional medicine. And you are wilfully ignoring equal and greater wanton environmental negligence on the part of industrialized western countries such as the US *and* Australia.

[Chinney]

The one ray of hope is that quite a few countries are finally acknowledging this problem, and some are doing something about it. Actually, the US, for example, has a pretty good record on species protection over the last 20-30 years despite the best efforts of some in the US who oppose such restrictions. I think the US has done better than Canada, adjusting for the big difference in population pressure between the two countries. Canada has pretty much rested on the fact that it has big, empty spaces, rather than having effective, enforced environmental laws. Shame on this country.

[Aquafire]

Originally posted by Eugene
And I'll say it for the last time. You're vilifying one group because you've inflated the significance of poaching and East Asian traditional medicine. And you are wilfully ignoring equal and greater wanton environmental negligence on the part of industrialized western countries such as the US *and* Australia.
God in Heaven, Eugene read my original thread Puh-Leeze....!

I acknowledged right from the outset the possibility that my comments could be misconstrued as racist....

But since when does that mean I should back away from telling the truth as I ( and many others ) see it ?

Have you any idea where most of the illegal ivory is processed & transitted from ?

Have you any idea how many tigers, bears, elephants and other species face extinction because of "asian " medical practices ?

You accuse me of " inflating the significance" of such practices..but you haven't got a clue..have you ?

No disrespect intended, but your ignorance in these matters is both glaring and alarming...

Furthermore, I think it presumptious of you to assume that I don't give a stuff about American & Australian enviromental issues...

For your interest, I just finished reading Farley Mowat's " Never Cry Wolf " ( no wolves in Australia but i still read it ) ....

So in answer to your sweeping generalisation.....Of course I bloody well care..

Except .... T H I S.... topic was about ....Singapore.... OK !

Which.. unless I am mistaken.. is in...... ASIA.....stiff

If the topic was destruction of native flora in Southern California I would have been all ears..because it is not part of my stomping ground and I would be keen to learn something.

Oh yes, I do know you guys are having terrible problems with Australian gum trees invading your native conservation parks...

I understand that eucalypts were introduced as a cash crop for both it's oil and it's timber back in the late 1800's or so I have been told..

It just goes to show that the path to hell is sometimes paved with good intentions....

I apologize for the steam...but sometimes even my humour fails me.. :embarrass:

Have a good weekend Eugene...:)

[Eugene]

No disrespect intended, but your ignorance in these matters is both glaring and alarming...
F'ing hell...forget it.

And the topic is not Singapore unless your name is FCiB or aquafire. (http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~geo101vc/Lecture25/sld010.htm)

[Aquafire]

Originally posted by Chinney
The one ray of hope is that quite a few countries are finally acknowledging this problem, and some are doing something about it. Actually, the US, for example, has a pretty good record on species protection over the last 20-30 years despite the best efforts of some in the US who oppose such restrictions. I think the US has done better than Canada, adjusting for the big difference in population pressure between the two countries. Canada has pretty much rested on the fact that it has big, empty spaces, rather than having effective, enforced environmental laws. Shame on this country.
The same problem applies in Australia & in areas of the Amazon & Siberia etc..
Unfortunately, the logistical "costs" are extremly high..
Some of our national park officers have territories of a million square miles to cover while doing their "rounds"
That is where native aboriginal groups are best incorporated into this process.

I have a friend who drives aboriginal elders around the bush, helping them to set it on fire.. ( in a sort of patchwork quilted way ).

It is part of their understanding that the land must undergo such burnings to remain ecologically balanced..

They refer to it as " Blue-tongue ( Lizard ) dreaming "..

And finally Euro-stralians are coming to appreciate that fire..is not an enemy, but a giver of life to these most ancient of lands..
Way to go..8)

[SDW2001]

I think there is a degree of hysterics on this one. I know Singapore is highly urbanized, though.

My father-in-law has been there seveeral times for business. He said it's a magnificent place. Apparently, the country is basically run like a business, with a "board of directors" (or equivalent). It suppsoed to be a spotless and nearly crimeless envirnoment.

[Aquafire]

Originally posted by Eugene
F'ing hell...forget it.

And the topic is not Singapore unless your name is FCiB or aquafire. (http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~geo101vc/Lecture25/sld010.htm)



Read this..( if you dare ) .....Eugene...

http://www.acapworldwide.com/tiger1.htm

It makes for some very interesting reading..especially in reference to the sale of Tiger products in the USA...

https://secure.worldwildlife.org/tigers/images/top_banner.jpg

[nixi]

Originally posted by SDW2001

My father-in-law has been there seveeral times for business. He said it's a magnificent place. Apparently, the country is basically run like a business, with a "board of directors" (or equivalent). It suppsoed to be a spotless and nearly crimeless envirnoment.

Your father-in-law is one scary person.

[Fellowship]

Originally posted by Eugene
F'ing hell...forget it.

And the topic is not Singapore unless your name is FCiB or aquafire

Eugene I am sorry if you thought I was "making" this an issue about Singapore. I was trying to bring focus and attention to what I felt was an alarming trend no less seen in all of the world. I by no means had any intent to single out a country to point a finger at said country. I have no reason to do that. I merely represented the data found in the NG doc that I have linked the issue of lost biodiversity to in this thread. I am sorry if for what ever reason aquafire has been rather over the top towards you including rude language. I never intend for rude comments to be in my threads.

I am saddened by the loss in biodiversity the world over and I welcome the thoughts and ideas that any of you may have.

With respect for all in this thread,

Fellowship

[Powerdoc]

One thing is sure : no extinction is scheduled when you consider the various species of posters of AO :D

[groverat]

Mother Nature is evil.

Are you people already forgetting that big thing that came out of the ocean and onto the beach in Chile!?

[Powerdoc]

Originally posted by groverat
Mother Nature is evil.

Are you people already forgetting that big thing that came out of the ocean and onto the beach in Chile!?

yes avoid the beach in chile, and come in Cote d'azur : the people sucks but there is no 'things" on the beach, just nice breasts.

However it's not for you anymore Groverat, now you have only the right to watch one model. :D

[Aquafire]

Originally posted by Eugene
Gosh, shut up already. Again, YOU were the one that picked out ONE group of people to blame. Who was the one not thinking locally? Globally? At all? Stop responding with the same generic nonsense you already used.

I think I am owed an apology Fellows...

If you bother to read my threads up to this moment, they were all calm & contained....

But as usual I am accustomed to being blamed...for other people's immoderate behaviour....
:\

[Eugene]

Originally posted by aquafire

But as usual I am accustomed to being blamed...for other people's immoderate behaviour....
:\
Ah, the accuser plays the victim.

[Aquafire]

Originally posted by Eugene
Gosh, shut up already. Again, YOU

So this is the accuser playing the victim..Huh ?

Whatever you say...Eugene.....:smokey: