Wireless keyboard charging problem [Archive]

FormatC2

07-28-2003, 01:42 PM

If the move to a wireless keyboard is afoot, then the charging problem must be #1 in Apple's crosshairs.

Having to recharge, buy new batteries, whatever for a wireless keyboard is just plain stupid and counterproductive, and will fail.

I remember reading an article a while back regarding "generating power from keystrokes".

Sorry, I couldn't find the article in question, but remembered it when thinking about this problem.

Wouldn't work so well for mouse power however, because of fewer clicks compared to keyboard clicks, and much shorter "throw" for depressing a mouse button.

What do you think about "generating power from keystrokes"?

dfiler

07-28-2003, 02:08 PM

There are wristwatches that run off of power generated by merely walking around...

I'm unabashedly anti-wireless for mice and keyboards. However, this stance is at least partially based upon the hassle of needing to replace batteries or purchase, setup, and use charging hardware. Unfortunately, I think even bluetooth power consumption is orders of magnitude higher than available from kinetic sources.

Delphiki

07-28-2003, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by FormatC2
If the move to a wireless keyboard is afoot, then the charging problem must be #1 in Apple's crosshairs.

Having to recharge, buy new batteries, whatever for a wireless keyboard is just plain stupid and counterproductive, and will fail.

I remember reading an article a while back regarding "generating power from keystrokes".

Sorry, I couldn't find the article in question, but remembered it when thinking about this problem.

Wouldn't work so well for mouse power however, because of fewer clicks compared to keyboard clicks, and much shorter "throw" for depressing a mouse button.

What do you think about "generating power from keystrokes"?

It's an interesting idea, but the cost of something like this might make it impractical but more importantly, would it be able to generate enough energy from a single keystroke to transmit that keystroke wirelessly with a strong enough signal for your computer to be able to recieve it? Also this would require a bluetooth wireless keyboard system to be redesigned so that the computer only neeeded to have a connection with the keyboard when a key was pressed, which could be difficult. As it stands now just having a wireless keyboard on without typeing anything is a drain on the battery so this is a problem that would need to be overcome. Perhaps the amount of energy that could be gained from a keystroke would be greater than the amount of energy needed to transmit that keystroke by a great enough amount that it would be possible to maintain a constant connection while using the keyboard based on energy stored that was collected from keystrokes. Though when you wanted to turn it on wohat would you do? Just mash a bunch of keys?

Boss_Jim

07-28-2003, 02:25 PM

Originally posted by FormatC2
...Having to recharge, buy new batteries, whatever for a wireless keyboard is just plain stupid and counterproductive, and will fail...
I have a wireless keyboard/mouse (Logitech) for my POS Dell at work. Changing the batteries is infrequent and easy. The software even warns you when the batteries are running low.

People have remote controls for all kinds of audio/visual equipment and all of them need the batteries changed now and again.

Am I missing something?

Gargoyle

07-28-2003, 02:39 PM

I have seen a few articles in AI with similar questions, and my answer is still the same. You always have to rely on us clever British folk... ;)

http://www.splashpower.com/

FormatC2

07-28-2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Gargoyle
I have seen a few articles in AI with similar questions, and my answer is still the same. You always have to rely on us clever British folk... ;)

There are two "charging contacts" on the bottom of the iBook, hmmmmmmm...

Originally posted by Boss_Jim
I have a wireless keyboard/mouse (Logitech) for my POS Dell at work. Changing the batteries is infrequent and easy.

Tell us more. How often? What kind of batteries? Est. cost per month/year?

wmf

07-28-2003, 09:58 PM

I know, we can charge the keyboard using USB! And then I can just leave it plugged in all the time...

inkhead

07-28-2003, 10:44 PM

I'm guessing it will use some sorta lithium ion or other technology. Just like you don't replace your iPod battery you won't replace your keyboard battery. In fact it would be rather simple really. Right where the cable goes into the keyboard it would just be a USB or firewire type connector. If it's unplugged it's wireless. If it is plugged in it's wired and charging. Same goes for the mouse.

RBR

07-28-2003, 11:29 PM

Originally posted by inkhead
I'm guessing it will use some sorta lithium ion or other technology. Just like you don't replace your iPod battery you won't replace your keyboard battery. In fact it would be rather simple really. Right where the cable goes into the keyboard it would just be a USB or firewire type connector. If it's unplugged it's wireless. If it is plugged in it's wired and charging. Same goes for the mouse.

Logitech has a nice parking station/charger for their most recent wireless mouse. I guess the keyboard still needs to have the batteries changed though.

Masker

07-29-2003, 12:33 AM

I wonder is a solar cell could run the keyboard.

if it'll run a calculator..???

MSKR

dglow

07-29-2003, 02:10 AM

What about inductive charging? This is the contact-free, method used by Oral-B electric toothbrushes.

Maybe some kind of charging pad the keyboard & mouse sit on overnight? Or the keyboard stays plugged in, and you leave the mouse touching the keyboard to charge...

A possibility?

g::masta

07-29-2003, 02:27 AM

they could always allow you to use your iPod dock to charge the mouse and keyboard. If it only takes 3 hours to fully charge an iPod, it should take far less time to charge a mouse & keyboard.

Gargoyle

07-29-2003, 04:00 AM

I really think that splash power (http://www.splashpower.com) could be the future. If it is as good as it says it is, then we could see large pads that cover almost the entire desktop... Everything could be wireless, without a real need to worry too much about its power consumption.

der Kopf

07-29-2003, 05:41 AM

Maybe they could fit a fuel cell in there? That would finally put all those spilled soft drinks and cups of coffee to good use.

ThunderPoit

07-30-2003, 01:17 PM

about the logitech kb/mouse.

i have owned mine for over a year now, and usually have to change the mouse batteries once every 5 weeks. it takes 2 AA batteries, i buy the duracel ultra, so 6$/4 = 3$ every 5 weeks.
52/5=10.4
10.4*3=$31.20/year. not too bad, really.

i think the kb goes about 3-4 months,but i honestly cant remember last time i changed them. it uses 2AA also

madmax559

07-30-2003, 02:24 PM

Heres how the new apple keyboards will actually work

---BEGIN TOP SECRET DESIGN PROPOSAL

Each keyboard will come equipped with a small cage
containing an apple hamster (TM)

Said power source will have multiple benefits

1.Power the keyboard
2.Provide theurapatic sideeffects to the user.
3.Prevent the user from smashing down on the keyboard
thereby killing power source
4.Enchance the "Apple" effect

The power source will be trained to subsist on dropppings
of coke & pizza that are embedded in the keyboard

---END TOP SECRET DESIGN PROPOSAL

:)

kraig911

07-30-2003, 02:36 PM

Originally posted by madmax559
Heres how the new apple keyboards will actually work

---BEGIN TOP SECRET DESIGN PROPOSAL

Each keyboard will come equipped with a small cage
containing an apple hamster (TM)

Said power source will have multiple benefits

1.Power the keyboard
2.Provide theurapatic sideeffects to the user.
3.Prevent the user from smashing down on the keyboard
thereby killing power source
4.Enchance the "Apple" effect

The power source will be trained to subsist on dropppings
of coke & pizza that are embedded in the keyboard

---END TOP SECRET DESIGN PROPOSAL

:)

That is like the coolest design I've ever heard of.

son of Gib

07-30-2003, 06:12 PM

the keyboard could be outfitted with two wire probes that you could stick into an apple, just like how the potato clock works. You could use a potato, but the apple fits their brand.

Jmitch

07-30-2003, 11:37 PM

Yes, the splashpower is definitly the way to go. Just make the mouse pad the splashpower or secure a mat underneath the desk somehow. Apple will figure out an easy convenient solution to it.

The keyboard powering thing, with the kinetic energy is not the right direction. Keyboards themselves are dinosaur technology. Its just a matter of putting the new technology to use and making it widespread. Think about it, the keyboard is so un-ergonomical. Its clunky, takes up room, and is generally slow. You can already control your Mac soley with your voice. Just get a decent microphone, and Apple has already provided that infact with the iSight, which will probably be built in to future Macs.

People lets look ahead a little. The mouse will probably even dissapear. Of course, much later than the keyboard.

Malokata

07-31-2003, 12:08 AM

Hell, the personal computer will be phased out eventually, too, likely replaced by a ubiquitous, easily accessible ubernet, but that doesn't mean Apple should quit making them.

Jmitch

07-31-2003, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by Malokata
Hell, the personal computer will be phased out eventually, too, likely replaced by a ubiquitous, easily accessible ubernet, but that doesn't mean Apple should quit making them.

No no no. You missed my point. My point was not to say that Apple should stop making anything that will ultimately be replaced with newer technology.

My point was that Apple should be looking ahead, as they usually do, and they should definitly make wireless a standard and forget the wired mices and keyboards. Along with that, I was just mentioning that keyboards are dinosaur technology, and they should be the next to go, seeing that Apple already has voice command built-in to their os.

TAZ

08-01-2003, 02:43 PM

Well, I have a wireless Keyboard and mouse here at work. The keyboard runs off of 4 AAA batteries and the mouse has a recharging stand, but can run off of AAA also if needed. The charging stand runs off of 110 AC. I have had them for over 6 months and haven had to replace keyboard batteries yet. The mouse gets placed on the charging stand when I leave the office. I use this set up 8+ hours a day. Its not Bluetooth so that may mean lower power consumption. I also have a Logitech wireless trackball that I have ahd for over a year. No battery change yet either. It doesn get the 8+ hours of use/ day, but it does get used. Its not as big a pain in the rear as people seem to make it out to be.

fred_lj

08-01-2003, 09:04 PM

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a second. We're so excited and sure about "Splash Power" being the way to go, but wouldn't leaving a splash power pad on your desk just defeat the purpose of wireless keyboards?

I mean, the splash pads themselves plug into an AC outlet; it's not like you're "escaping wires" with this thing. They make some pretty mean battery technology now, though. A big enough lithium cell could power the keyboard for almost 6-7 months if not longer. And for whoever suggested a solar cell, that wouldn't be a bad idea either if properly "disguised" by Apple. Everytime the light's on or sun shines in, the keyboard recharges its lithium battery. Simple.

jante99

08-01-2003, 09:28 PM

How about a built in fusion power plant in every keyboard, mouse, and laptop. Slogan: UnWire, Permanently.

fred_lj:
The Splash pad could charge the keyboard/mouse when it is resting of the pad but the keyboard/mouse could also have a battery for operation away from the pad.

Solar Power would be be a good option also and cheaper then the unproven Splash pad.

synp

08-03-2003, 07:09 AM

Originally posted by ThunderPoit
about the logitech kb/mouse.

i have owned mine for over a year now, and usually have to change the mouse batteries once every 5 weeks. it takes 2 AA batteries, i buy the duracel ultra, so 6$/4 = 3$ every 5 weeks.
52/5=10.4
10.4*3=$31.20/year. not too bad, really.

i think the kb goes about 3-4 months,but i honestly cant remember last time i changed them. it uses 2AA also
Interesting. Is that mouse optical or mechanical? I would think that a mechanical mouse takes less energy than an optical. It would be a shame to return to mechanical mice just so we can have wireless.

Lazzyass86

08-03-2003, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by fred_lj
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a second. We're so excited and sure about "Splash Power" being the way to go, but wouldn't leaving a splash power pad on your desk just defeat the purpose of wireless keyboards?

I mean, the splash pads themselves plug into an AC outlet; it's not like you're "escaping wires" with this thing. They make some pretty mean battery technology now, though. A big enough lithium cell could power the keyboard for almost 6-7 months if not longer. And for whoever suggested a solar cell, that wouldn't be a bad idea either if properly "disguised" by Apple. Everytime the light's on or sun shines in, the keyboard recharges its lithium battery. Simple.

But what if Apple were to make it so that you can power it over Firewire, and also so that the pad is one big Bluetooth modual, so like the iPod you have power, and data over one cable.

Edit: Also Apple could mke them different sizes so it would cover your desk, and be able to cut it to size if needed. Also you could have lamps, PDAs, cell phones, laptops, Cameras, and camcorders all charge, and sync by placing them on your desk!
KICKASS!!
this technolgy is so versital, and I feel Apple should (will) be the first people to adopt it and implement it into there products, such as; the iPod, laptops, keyboards and mice, and then have other people join in on the band wagon, like Griffin, imagiane how awsome it would be to have a totaly WIRELESS Powermate, and have palm join in so when you place your PDA on this pad it syncs and charges it at the same time. Also in addition to it having bluetooth, it could have that spec 802.11e, I rember reading this and it was spose to be a spec Apple was working on, and baiscly it was wireless firewire, and implement this in, so you can use iPods, iSights, and DV camcorders that you place, and they charge and sync! :wow:

dglow

08-03-2003, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by Lazzyass86
But what if Apple were to make it so that you can power it over Firewire, and also so that the pad is one big Bluetooth modual, so like the iPod you have power, and data over one cable.

Yeah! That the best idea I've read yet.

Make it small and discrete... mount it beneath your keyboard/mouse surface, completely out of view.

But the power & data in one cable? 'Bluetooh over Firewire,' right? Wow, that sounds so elegant and soooo Apple. Not coincidentally, this would jive with rumors that the new displays will include a Firewire hub.

<?> Hey, anyone know if there are unused pins in the ADC connectors?
<g>

Lazzyass86

08-05-2003, 01:57 PM

OH!! I just had another ideak, if Apple were to make OLED displays, the fact that they use a fraction of the power of an LCD, they too could be placed on this Power pad thingy!!!:wow:

johnsonwax

08-05-2003, 10:52 PM

ThunderPoit

08-05-2003, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by synp
Interesting. Is that mouse optical or mechanical? I would think that a mechanical mouse takes less energy than an optical. It would be a shame to return to mechanical mice just so we can have wireless.
the mouse is optical

dglow

08-06-2003, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by johnsonwax
Solar works fine for calculators, etc. in an office setting, so that might work. Maybe 2-3 sq in would be sufficient...

Also, there are remote charging solution that use induction. We've got a guy working on robotic fish that are charged remotely through the water. So long as the keyboard was placed a short distance from the charger - 18" or so, it could be charged. Might cause a problem for shielding for the computer, though. Induction generates a pretty strong E/M field.

Or maybe multiple pads, to cover a wider area?

FYI, the splashpower is the same thing - inductive charging. Their words. (http://www.splashpower.com/prod4.html) :)

Lazzyass86

08-07-2003, 12:55 PM

Hey and maybe also Apple could make speakers that are powered, and controled over this pad thingy.

TommyBrando

08-08-2003, 01:54 AM

I think a way to solve losing the USB ports on the keyboard if it goes bluetooth as well as the issue of charging it, maybe make a small 2/3 port USB hub that the keyboard hooks into to charge. Though the connection of the actual keyboard to the comp remains wireless. I think an apple designed hub of this sort would work niceley.:smokey:

treaCor

08-08-2003, 07:52 AM

So what if you would connect mouse/keyboard once a week or once a month to charge recharchable batteries. That would be no problem at all.

t!

Lazzyass86

08-08-2003, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by treaCor
So what if you would connect mouse/keyboard once a week or once a month to charge recharchable batteries. That would be no problem at all.

t!

You could do that, but this power pad tech, can open whole new doors for Apple, and the best part that it could finialy lead the true Wireless revolution, because not only could you put on your desk, manufacutures could start building them in to desks, and maybe they could build them into resteruant tablels, so you could charge your cell phone, and theyy could make plates that have heating elements in them so you will always have hot food. Apple needs to look into this technology.