Digitimes: Magnesium Alloy iMacs next year

[ZO]

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=7466

Magnesium iMac for ’04?

By Macworld staff

This morning's DigiTimes <http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/Article.asp?datePublish=2003/12/10&pages=A1&seq=1> has a report that's guaranteed to make the Mac rumour-mill churn away that little bit faster – it claims Apple will release a new iMac in 2004 with a magnesium-alloy case.


The report states: "The new iMac Apple Computer is going to launch in the first quarter of next year will have a magnesium-alloy case and a high proportion of plastic parts for cost reduction."


The report from Taiwan's respected tech industry publication cites "sources" for its claims. DigiTimes explains that iMac sales have been lacklustre in the quarter "due to higher prices".


Macworld's online poll this week confirms the iMac to have lost the edge for sales against competing products in Apple's range. Just four per cent of readers who voted would like to see an iMac under their tree this year, with the majority of voters hoping for other Apple products.


The report also claims Apple suspended plans for a tablet PC-like Mac in September, because of costs.


DigiTimes believes the new iMacs will appear in January or February.



Would be nice to have a new form factor, cubish, mag-alloy, iMac... just get sales goin' again!

[pscates]

After long and careful thinking on the whole subject, I've concluded that Apple needs to return to the colored jellybean design.

:D

THAT'S when iMacs were flying off the shelves!

[kraig911]

you could be correct

[~ufo~]

I couldn't agree more mr scates

I've ranted and raved about this before.

only italians (and, as someone kindly pointed out, interior designers) like that clean industrial look of all white, or all black.

I for one think the key lime iBook was the coolest product ever to come from apple, that's what caught my eye and arroused my interest in the company.

the current iMac is not bad, but it doesn't come near the cuteness of my green crt iMac over here....

it's just the sweetest thing....

bring back the colour in our digital lives

[pscates]

Originally posted by kraig911 you could be correct

I usually am... ;)

[salmonstk]

Current iMac is great- its just pricey compared with eMac so people have a hard time justifying it.

Get proced down on eMac and the iMac and leave the general form factor alone for now.

Its ok if the sales are now huge as long as people are buying an eMac instead.

[murbot]

There might have been an iMac under my tree this year.

Farkin' stinky bastich!

[cubist]

Blech. So let's say Apple makes the arm plastic (green plastic, for our friend ufo) and reduces the price to $799 and eliminates the eMac. Will they fly off the shelves then?

No.

In its day, the jellybean iMac was a fast computer. It may not have been in the top rank, but it was at least competitive. Today's iMac is too slow. Reducing the price may improve sales some, but they're not going to sell like hot cakes. I won't buy one, even if they make the arm and base flower power.

Put a G5 in it, now that's another story. But it doesn't sound like that's what's happening. :(

[kraig911]

I for one think the current iMacs run great. I personally think if they did offer them at 799 that they would fly off the shelves, People hardly look at processing power as they do other features now such as, digital video, audio and such. Intel is megahertzed out, with the advent of Panther I see no reason to think that it runs super slow anymore.

What we need is sales incentives for the people selling them besides guys like you and me who are just out for the platform and the customer and not commisions. Where Hp's and Compaq's are higher.

[Powerdoc]

The rumor of Digitimes also told that the first i mac they will ship will be the 20 inch.

If this info is correct, it's a very important one. Why ?
Because it means that Apple has scheduled that their supply will be low, thus they limit the offer to the high end.

Why the supply will be low ?
Because of the case ? : i doubt it. The case is not the most difficult part of a computer, even in Magnesium.

Because of the hardware ?
Much more interesting here. Considering that both the G4 mobo and the G5 mobo already exist, i only see one thing wich can limit the supply :
the processor.

My conclusion is There will be a new processor in the new I mac
Two choices :
- the 750 vx codename Mojave
- the G5 at 90 nm (the initial supply will be low, it make sense)

[pscates]

Okay, if Apple releases a 20" iMac with a G5 in it for under $1400, I don't want to hear ANY of you spec-whore clowns bitchin' ever again about ANYTHING, got that?

:D

If the above machine isn't good enough for you (and any "envelope-pushing" work you like to delude yourself into thinking you're doing), then do us all a favor and go to hell.

:p

[rickag]

Originally posted by pscates
Okay, if Apple releases a 20" iMac with a G5 in it for under $1400,
:p

I could afford it, only if it were $1200 and came with a standard sized AGP card and one PCI-X slot.
:grumble:

:D i just had to be the first with the sarcastic reply

[geekmeet]

Originally posted by pscates
Okay, if Apple releases a 20" iMac with a G5 in it for under $1400, I don't want to hear ANY of you spec-whore clowns bitchin' ever again about ANYTHING, got that?

:D

If the above machine isn't good enough for you (and any "envelope-pushing" work you like to delude yourself into thinking you're doing), then do us all a favor and go to hell.

:p



AWESOME POST!
this has me cracking up!

[satchmo]

For the umteenth time, drop the price by a couple hundred dollars, give it a better video card and give it DVI out for true desktop spanning. That, or make the iMac's screen usable as an external
People don't want products that will be obselete within a year. Build in a bit of flexibility.
Only then will it begin to get respect.

[pscates]

I have to say, two years into the things I REALLY thought they would've dropped in price by now.

I mean, shouldn't the 20" be priced more like the current 17", the 17" down in the $1399 range and so on?

:(

But I dont know. Just wish they were. Charging $2199 for the 20" seems a tad excessive. I would've loved to have bought my Mom one at a more $1700-ish price.

I'll wait for six months until these things start to hit the refurb store and see how cheap they are then!

:)

[salmonstk]

We all bitch cause the iMac doesnt sell like it used to. But Apple has achieved with the iMac and emac what it wanted with the Cube. A high end and low end consumer model.

I would prefer see the eMac updated a bit in form factor. Try and shrink it a bit.

Oh and on the G5 front, with 90nm coming out for the PowerMac at higher clock speeds maybe they could afford some 12 nm chips to put in the iMac.

[Wrong Robot]

I highly Doubt apple will return to colors anytime soon.

They turned the PC world onto the appeal of colorful computers, but then got hosed by repeated misconceptions that apple only sells "fruit flavored kids toys" and the dreaded "I dont buy computers based on what color they are" Yes I still hear those comments today. :rolleyes:

the current aluminum books have a bluish sheen though, caused by the LCD refracting off the case I'd imagine, but at any, it's VERY subtle and very neat. :D

I think that maybe apple will release colored computers again somewhere down the line, possibly once the PC world is starting to make industrial looking metal designs. :\

Either way, the eMac is eating into the iMac sales hardcore, if the iMac will still be steve jobs' darling, then it's going to need to drop it's price by a few hundred across the board.

[pscates]

Well, I was being slightly sarcastic when I called for a return of colors.

:)

But only slightly...they WERE gorgeous.

And anyone not buying one because "they were colored kids toys" or whatever is obviously an ignorant, clue-deprived individual who didn't do their research and missed owning a nimble, sharp little computer that served (and still serves) the needs and demands of tons of proud, happy jellybean iMac owners (of which I was one, and, as of next week, will be again). Just because they couldn't get past the colors? That's THEIR problem.

:)

These people aren't secure in their masculinity or something...

:p

[murbot]

A 1.25GH G4 with a gig o' RAM is totally powerful enough to run all of the cool software Apple stuffs into it. The display is arguably the most important part of your computer using experience too, as that is how you interact with the thing, and that freaking monster display is amazing.

Therefore, the 20" iMac is the best computer ever, and you all need to have a nice big glass of STFU.

:p

[Wrong Robot]

I always thought that the jellybean iMac was the PERFECT dorm room gaming machine.

only two problems, back then gaming was even worse on macs, and the 8 meg ati rage 128 pro(while admirable, stunk)

but, the form factor, the price, the appeal, it was perfect.

Currently that's the only big market item that macs are weak with, games, while it's getting better, it still has a while to go, and even then, people still don't believe that you can do anything on macs.
:\


while those people I mentioned might be ignorant not-do-research-before-purchase types, they are still a large part of the market :grumble:

[Amorph]

murbot gets a beer!

What is it with Steve and magnesium, anyway? He really seems to like that stuff. Anyway, if they've found a way to make a substantially less expensive iMac, bully for them. I consider the 20" iMac to be a brilliant design for a consumer machine, but it really sorely needs to come down below $2K. Preferably a ways below $2k.

I'd like to see how this impacts the case design, too. I can only assume that Apple used stainless steel the first time for a reason.

[pscates]

MURBOT YOU BASTARD!!!

I just sprayed a half-mouth full of soda onto my desk and front of my shirt when I read your "have a nice big glass of STFU" comment.

:lol:

Man, I look HORRIBLE now. Everyone keeps asking me "what happened"?

:p

[Wrong Robot]

Ya...that was too good.

(See sig) 8)

[pscates]

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
while those people I mentioned might be ignorant not-do-research-before-purchase types, they are still a large part of the market :grumble:

Then they get the gadget/gimmick-laden, bloated, shitty ass tech-support-hotline-connected computers they deserve. :p

[mmmpie]

I suggest that it is unlikely you will see any magnesium. Its not a pretty metal anyway - it might get a white paint job, but I think it will be the internal frame, just like it is in laptops. Providing a large heatsink, and a very solid structure to support the machine.

I just cant see the monitor arm being replaced with a plastic one - the metal one is already a bit sloppy. Im guessing that to get more plastic parts into the machine means dumping the arm, and going with a new form factor.

Could this mean that rather than iMac replacement we are going to get an eMac replacement? Bringing LCD to the low end?

My reading of the rumor was that a new 20" monitor would be introduced at the same time - presumably in G5 styling.

[TWinbrook46636]

Macworld screws up again. The DigiTimes article clearly states:


The next generation of the “New iMac” that Apple Computer is going to launch in the first quarter of next year will have a magnesium-alloy case and a high proportion of plastic parts for cost reduction, according to sources in Taiwan’s IT industry.

Apple uses a stainless steel and zinc alloy to manufacture its current generation of New iMacs, the sources said.


So they are talking about the internals being made of magnesium-alloy instead of stainless steel and zinc. Externally it will still be made of plastic.

[Bigc]

Originally posted by Amorph
murbot gets a beer!

What is it with Steve and magnesium, anyway? He really seems to like that stuff. Anyway, if they've found a way to make a substantially less expensive iMac, bully for them. I consider the 20" iMac to be a brilliant design for a consumer machine, but it really sorely needs to come down below $2K. Preferably a ways below $2k.

I'd like to see how this impacts the case design, too. I can only assume that Apple used stainless steel the first time for a reason.

Mag(nesium) wheels were the coolest thing you could get for wheels on your car in the 60's... :smokey:

[Lemon Bon Bon]

What the iMac3 means is anyone's guess.

Apple's consumer line needs a sort out. A re-think.

I haven't seen the 20inch iMac2 in person. But I'd guess it LOOKS the part. But with underspecced cpu and graphics card for an outrageous sum of money? No thanks.

The macworld.co.uk poll reflected current feelings. PowerMacs, iPods and Powerbooks/iBooks. The iMac2 and eMac get a laughable 5% vote between them. If the iMac or eMac want to be no.1 in Christmas wants next year? Something drastic needs to change. As it is, they're both flawed. And the disappointing sales reflect that.

What a turnaround in the last few years. Now the PowerMac is outselling the iMac!

Cut the price. Cheaper 'plastic' components. A G5. A decent graphics card.

It's as obvious now as when the Cube was ridiculously overpriced. At least you could expand the damn thing...

You can scream 'Spec whore' all you want. But you'll just be a Pussycat singing along with the rest of the cat's chorus of niche boutique buyers... And the original coloured iMac wasn't that. Niche.

Lemon Bon Bon

[musicaltone]

Digitimes? Weren't they the folks that had everyone sold on the 15.4" PowerBook? Sounds like another outfit with zero sources pushing for page hits to me - anything to bring in the advertisers.

Nothing like Appleinsider of course. If you see a news item there you can be more or less certain it is gonna happen. Oh, yes and no ads.

[Amorph]

Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon
I haven't seen the 20inch iMac2 in person. But I'd guess it LOOKS the part. But with underspecced cpu and graphics card for an outrageous sum of money? No thanks.

Funny, since consumers are ditching towers for laptops in droves. Fire-breathing CPUs and GPUs are obviously not very high on the list of consumer demands (hint: most consumers aren't trying to render 3D on the cheap ;) ). On the other hand, consumers do have a hunger for large screens.

The macworld.co.uk poll reflected current feelings.

It might have reflected current feelings in those who responded to a web poll by macworld.co.uk. It's nearly impossible to conclude anything substantial from that.

It's as obvious now as when the Cube was ridiculously overpriced. At least you could expand the damn thing...

The Cube is not expandable in any way that is relevant to the consumer market. Trust me on this. I've expanded my Cube. The business of adding a hard drive required me to drive to every hardware store in town looking for a miniscule allen wrench sized just so to fit into a difficult, narrow gap in the Cube's internals. I've been toying with the idea of replacing the stock RADEON (the fan is getting obnoxious) and I'm not at all looking forward to that. Cube-edition graphics cards are rare and expensive, and the contortions required to retrofit other graphics cards are... unattractive (I have to cut into what?!). That's not even going into the problems posed by the case and the DC/DC unit, neither of which were engineered with expandability in mind - they provide enough power and heat dissipation for the stock configurations, period.

You can say that the iMac requires a price drop, and I'll be right there with you. It is sad that the PowerMac is outselling the iMac, and Apple can change that by bringing the price down (and killing the 15" outright - the 17" is the top selling right now according to the Apple Store's top ten list, price notwithstanding).

What the iMac needs to do is hit a more realistic consumer price point and offer a clear alternative to the 14" iBook.

[murbot]

I'd like to apologize for any damage done to Paul's, or anyone else's screen.

:D

See, if you were using an LCD iMac, you'd have been able to quickly rotate that sucker out of harm's way with one finger. ;)

And Wrong Robot is the winner of the Sig Of The Week award. PM Amorph to see what you've won! heh heh

[Carson O'Genic]

Can somebody please let me in on what STFU means. Thank you.

[Powerdoc]

Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
Can somebody please let me in on what STFU means. Thank you.

FU means probabily $$$$ You, for the rest i have forget ...

[SonOfSylvanus]

Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
Can somebody please let me in on what STFU means. Thank you.

Shut The F**k Up

[Carson O'Genic]

Originally posted by SonOfSylvanus
Shut The F**k Up

Now I feel stupid, I guess I'll just STFU.

[Matsu]

Because I often have the benefit of talking to people more interesting than myself, I come across lotsa interesting esoteria.

Why does Steve likey magnesium so? (If he actually likes it at all?)

It could be that it's light, very very strong, and pretty easy (and cheap) to work with these days. Casting magnesium is getting easier all the time, add some high speed polish and it as a beuatiful lustre too -- not as bright as chrome or stainless, but deeper and a little darker.

Working with magnesium is cool, and it's everywhere: cameras, Panasonic's nearly indestructible laptops, the frame of the iBook IIRC, motorcycle parts, and soon, entire engine blocks!

I'd love to see a polished magnesium powerbook, tres chic.

A magenesium iMac would be nice too.

Apple still needs a headless consumer machine, mebbe a cube redux, priced right, single low G5, standard Graphic card, decent price.

[dfryer]

Just don't light that magnesium on fire!! :wow:

[Matsu]

Turns out to be a bitch to put out, haha...

But really, its flash point is so high, that any conditions that would have lit it up would be catastrophic anyway. It's used as a structural element these days in a lot of stuff. BMW will put in an engine block soon, motorcycles use it increasingly. I don't think it's much of a problem for modern magnesium alloys.

[TWinbrook46636]

Don't be expecting the next iMac to be made out of Magnesium or any other alloy!

What the DigiTimes article seems to be is indicating is that the internal chasis will be made of Magnesium instead of Zinc, the Stainless Steel swingarm will be eliminated and more plastics will be used, all in an effort to bring the price down.

In other words, this either marks the return of a true all-in-one iMac design or they are confusing this with an all new falt-panel eMac.

[THT]

If Apple wants the iMac to be a big seller, they need to have the next iMac cost $999 to $1499. It doesn't really matter what is in it. If the eMac is available at the same time and presuming it costs $699 to $999, the new iMac won't be that big of a seller as the original.

Regardless, the iMac won't be as big a seller as the original anyways since a majority of budget buyers will be buying the iBook G4. ;)

[pscates]

Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon You can scream 'Spec whore' all you want. But you'll just be a Pussycat singing along with the rest of the cat's chorus of niche boutique buyers... And the original coloured iMac wasn't that. Niche.

Lemon Bon Bon

:???:

That's twice now, in 3 days...any time you want to start making some sort of sense in a post pertaining to me or something I've said, be my guest. I'd be curious to understand WHAT in the hell you're trying to say.

:D

[msantti]

The white color of the current iMacs, eMacs, iBooks, and iPods is getting old.

[Amorph]

Tony Smith at The Register has weighed in (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/34434.html). I'd keep a lot of salt handy, though, since he seems to have managed an especially, um, interesting interpretation of the DigiTimes article.

[satchmo]

I suppose one area where Apple could save money is with the exterior part of the dome. Surely this frosty porcelin-like material is more costly than some cheap plastic finish.
A chrome-plated vs. solid steel arm might further cut costs (is the arm solid steel?).

[stingerman]

Magnesium-Alloy was what the original Next Cube was made of. And, it is mainly used for the internal structure. Apple will probably take their cueing from the iPod. Since the iPod is so successful people will identify the new iMac with it. So expect lots of white plastic, with aluminum highlights and with a red glow power button. It would be interesting if they built in an iPod dock in order to more closely tie the iPod with it. If people love their iPod, well then even love their ipod iMac.

I too think it will be some new processor from IBM as well and hopefully have a detached display.

PS Give the eMac the ability to get color side panels. Parents were buying the original iMac for their kids like crazy. I remember once waiting at a store and the original iMacs were going like hot cakes.

[Carson O'Genic]

Regarding colors: Yes, everyone wants a choice in colors and then they all seem to pick blue. Why? I liked the tangerine, but I know I'm almost alone in that choice. I agree that white is beginning to show its age, but i think it has another year. It still works with the new G5 gear, iPods etc. It gets harder to change the color scheme when it means you have to change so many items (monitors, iPod, mice, power plugs etc) and be backward compatible. White just works in most cases and looks different from beige and charcoal grey.

[Carson O'Genic]

Originally posted by Matsu
Apple still needs a headless consumer machine, mebbe a cube redux, priced right, single low G5, standard Graphic card, decent price.

Does anybody else get the subtle feeling that Matsu want the Cube to come back? Lets see, this must be attempt number 10e#$% at "I want a Cube" thread.;)

[craiger77]

I don't think Apple appreciates just how popular colors were with the half of our population who don't seem to post much on this board...ie women. I am sure I would have never talked my sister into getting an iMac if it wasn't for the choice of color. What Apple needs to do is design a simple shell for both the iMac and iBook that snaps on and off so people can not only choose a color, but change it when their mood or tastes change. It would be most easy to do with the iBook. Even now it is just 4 small allen screws holding on the shell over the LCD and this is really the only thing that needs to be changed to give it a new look.

While I agree Apple needs to lower the price on the iMacs, I sure hope they don't make it look cheaper in the process.

[Ensign Pulver]

Originally posted by craiger77
What Apple needs to do is design a simple shell for both the iMac and iBook that snaps on and off so people can not only choose a color, but change it when their mood or tastes change.

User installable, snap on color panels would look like total ass. It's something Gateway would do.

[LiquidR]

Well, better hope it has a good cooling system. Certain magnesium alloys have been known to explode if heated high enough. :lol:

It was used in the original Bradleys as armor, some independent testing showed that the armor exploded when hit with gunfire. I believe they now either use an alloy that is treated or another alloy altogether. For awhile there was a big stink amonst the Pentagon brass and Congress over the Bradley, this being one of many issues.

[kroehl]

Originally posted by LiquidR
Well, better hope it has a good cooling system. Certain magnesium alloys have been known to explode if heated high enough. :lol:

It was used in the original Bradleys as armor, some independent testing showed that the armor exploded when hit with gunfire. I believe they now either use an alloy that is treated or another alloy altogether. For awhile there was a big stink amonst the Pentagon brass and Congress over the Bradley, this being one of many issues.

Dunno if it explodes but magnesium alloys have been used for armour for eons. The M113 is built from magnesium alloy panels. At the same time I don't think that even a G5 iMac will get that hot. :)

BMW, BTW, is by far not the first to build magnesium alloy engines. Alfa Romeo did that in 1950. Google for Alfa Romeo Tipo 158. BMW doesn't innovate, they imitate :no: and that's why they suck, much like Gateway, Dell and Compaq(topic) 8)

[Matsu]

A while back someone polished a NeXT cube after stripping it of its paint. The deep lustre is impressive, very nice.

As a one man operation is was fairly intensive, but I imagine it could also be run through a mass production chemical/motorized polishing process.

I don't think anyone will be hitting thei iMac with bullets, though mebbe you don't want to sell one to that Gateway guy who bludgeoned his computer to death.

[~ufo~]

I don't understand why colours are automatically asociated with kids.
what's wrong with a little bit of colour for an adult ?
huh ? huh ? don't you peeps smoke dope ? :-D
or are you still stuck in the "my friends'll think I'm queer" paranoya ?

I just don't get it, the oul' iBooks 'n' iMacs looked different, howmany laptops you see out there have a metalic look ?
yes, most....

tell you the truth I'm so sick and tired of all that metal tightness that my butt has been reduced to a single buttock !
I can understand why they went with the current g5 case, though I though it was futt bugly at start. They needed a case that would win back the respect the G4 powermacs had lost.
of, course the loss of respect had fugg all to do with the case, cause my two quicksilvers are the prettiest CPUs ever.

in the time of the crt iMac you couldn't turn on the tv w/o seeing one or two sitting in the set of a soap or sitcom. Why? because they were very stylie...... very. I'll tell you another thing, they were cool stylie, not geek-stylie like the latest products....
no-one's gf would be bitching about the money spent when you brought home a cute lil' key lime iBook, cause they instantly fell in love with it.

bring home a current iMac and you'd better not spill the beans on how much you paid for that desklamp!

face it, the new iProducts are no where near as cool and eyecatching as back in the tangerine days! bitch about the specs all you want, it won't matter, they just lack cool.

trust me.

[BuonRotto]

I would expect a totally different design than what they have now, just because they want to. And while it will likely take some cures from the iPod, don't expect anything too close to it either. Jobs, Ive and Co. love to play and take risks with the hardware design. And just like when this current iMac was first introduced, expect the channels to be flooded with "ugly!" comments until things settle down. Consider that their recent machines including the towrs have all been metal, and that their packaging has gone to black instead of white. Minimalist exteriors are still the rage in Cupertino. Expect the unexpected, as they say. :)

PS: I loved tangerine, my favorite iMac color. :D

[Mac Voyer]

The problem with colors, and the reason they got so little respect from the PC side is the the different colors represented different power and configuration. My impression is that most people who bought those machines were completely oblivious to he fact that their color choice represented a specific configuration. This is why Mac users were accused of buying machines because of the pretty color. In the case of the iMac/iBook consumer, it was largely true. They were people with plenty of money and no technical sense. This was good for business and bad for PR. The current iMac seems to be aimed at the same crowd. The problem with the iMac is that consumers are a little more savvy these days and are demanding more substance for their ever decreasing budget. The iMac is still saying "Look at me. I'm pretty," when it should now be saying "Look at me. I'm a great value." For colors to work, they cannot be associated with configuration. Also, they must represent a good value. Otherwise, You are once again selling only to the laughably ignorant consumer with deep pockets. And that is a much smaller niche than it once was.

[Amorph]

Name one product with color choices where the color is not associated with the model. If you want the fancy finishes, you step up to the deluxe model.

All Apple was doing with the colored Macs was offering computers in the same manner as nearly every other product on the planet, regardless of price range.

The people who were hung up on the colored iMacs were male geeks who considered them a direct challenge to their role as tech gatekeepers. "You don't want a computer maker to sell directly to my sister, because she's just a stupid girl. You sell to me, the hobbyist LAN gamer, and I'll set her up with the system of my choice." What a wonderful arrangement. :no: If the computer is too hard for your sister to buy, set up, and use, then the computer maker failed.

That's actually one big reason why I'm hoping the colors come back (for the record, I loved the tangerine iBook, and the ruby, indigo, and sage iMacs). Apple was taking the revolutionary, radical stance that a computer is just something else that you buy when you need, and it should be available in the sorts of configurations and with the kinds of choices that nearly every other product on Earth makes available. You can get washing machines in different colors!

There are plenty of gatekeepers who will rail at this subversion of their authority, and who will cry out that the machines are not so ugly that they can't possibly have been bought for their looks (in other words, looks absolutely do matter to them, or the existence of a Strawberry iMac wouldn't even register with them!). These people are obstacles to progress. They are the old white-robed priesthood. The people who need computers should be able to buy them. They should have the options available that any other product makes available, including "superficial" personalizations like color. People who want big, ugly, fiddly machines for themselves can be assured that there will never be a shortage of them.

[pscates]

amorph...a true, in-the-know, smart guy. Who never acts the part.

:)

Good post. Others should learn from you.

[rickag]

I personally wasn't a fan of the colored iMacs, but that's just me. I think the question for Apple is how far product lines can be extended and be economically feasible or fiscally wise.
I believe Apple, with their current limited line, is trying to appeal to the broadest market(some say niche markets) they can. At some point, this may change, but which will happen first? By that I mean, will Apple extend their product lines first(ie: multicolored iMacs being a possibility, along with my preference of low end towers)in an attempt to boost sales or will Apple wait for sales to increase in order to justify line extensions????

[pscates]

You know guys, there's always THIS possibility: it's quite possible that Apple's lineup is FINE...people just don't know.

Who's fault is that? Where does THAT problem reside?

Apple themselves.

For reasons mentioned earlier by amorph, believed by myself and others and hilariously driven home by murbot, any problem is not with the gear, OS or software itself.

I believe it's the fact that so many people simply still don't know (or care) about anything that doesn't have Windows or Intel inside. Either on purpose or out of ignorance, THAT'S the problem! Go ask 20 people in your life today who aren't Mac users what their next computer will be...would any of them say a Mac? Probably not.

Some of you can talk GHz and bus speed and DDR all you want, but that stuff doesn't mean a damn to 93% of the computer-using public, does it?

No. It doesn't.

They're not selling like they should because Apple does a wretched, piss-poor job at touting their wares to the masses. That's just true.

Yes, prices could always be lower. But all of us don't seem to bothered to pay a premium for a quality product, so why should others if they KNEW what the deal was and what they were getting? They don't know anything about Macs, Apple, the OS, iApps, etc.

All they know lately is that there's this little white square thing that plays music and makes silhouettes dance weird.

That's hardly enough.

[Yevgeny]

Originally posted by pscates
After long and careful thinking on the whole subject, I've concluded that Apple needs to return to the colored jellybean design.

:D

THAT'S when iMacs were flying off the shelves!

Bleah! While we're at it, bring back flower power and dalmation because they were also around when iMacs were selling like mad. I think not.

If Apple goes back to tacky colors, I will personally hunt Jonathan Ive down and beat him to death. I'm not joking (ok, I sorta am joking, but I don't want any fruity colors). The current iMac is beautiful. Just give the current iMac a G5, a real GPU and all will be well.

[applenut]

Originally posted by Yevgeny
Bleah! While we're at it, bring back flower power and dalmation because they were also around when iMacs were selling like mad. I think not.

If Apple goes back to tacky colors, I will personally hunt Jonathan Ive down and beat him to death. I'm not joking (ok, I sorta am joking, but I don't want any fruity colors). The current iMac is beautiful. Just give the current iMac a G5, a real GPU and all will be well.

there was nothing at all tacky about graphite, sage, ruby and indigo....nothing.

tacky is an ugly off white dome with a metal rod sticking out of it with an attached LCD

[murbot]

I thought tacky was an angry teenager with a horribly disfigured bubbling PowerBook, typing away furiously with titanium paint chips flying left and right, calling one of the most elegant computers ever designed "tacky" out of spite.

But then again, I'm horrible with english and almost never check a dictionary.

:p

**insert totally loud hearty laugh with a Canadian accent**

[Ensign Pulver]

Originally posted by Amorph
The people who were hung up on color were male geeks who considered them a direct challenge to their role as tech gatekeepers.

Excellent post!

I can't tell you the number of women who have asked me personally and professionally over the last few years "when are they coming out with a pink iBook"?

But what do I know, I actually liked Blue Dalmatian.

[Mac Voyer]

Well, Amorph, I disagree. This is not about chauvinism. You say all products have color choices. Fine. You mention washing machines and household appliances. Huh? Last I checked, a green washer/dryer works the exact same way as a blue one or a yellow one. When all else is equal, color is a great option. The Gameboy Advanced is a great example of this. I bought one as a Christmas present for someone. The salesman asked me what color I wanted. I did not even know they came in different colors. Secure in the knowledge of the item I was purchasing, I was free to select a color.

You do not buy a car because it is red. You buy it because that is the type of car/truck/mini-van/SUV you want/need. After you have found the right kind of vehicle, you then settle on the right color. If car companies did what Apple was doing with the gumdrop iMac, then the LX would be blue and the EX would be green and the LE would be yellow and people would be walking into dealerships saying "I want the blue one." They would do that instead of considering the price and options of the vehicle to be certain that they are choosing the right one. Frankly, your argument seems a little ridiculous. If certain colors are limited to certain models, color is certainly not the deciding factor for the informed buyer. In the case of the gumdrop iMac, color was the deciding factor. They never even knew that there was a difference in the computers beyond color. The thought they were getting a personalization option when they were actually getting a configuration option. I am all for true personalization options. I am not for dummying down the marketing so much, that people believe that the color options on your computer is the same as the color option for their toaster. Computers are not appliances or cars. Get a clue. Selling them as if they were is exploitative to the technically naive.

[neumac]

Originally posted by Mac Voyer
You do not buy a car because it is red.

You haven't spent much time around car dealerships if you believe that.

[Amorph]

Originally posted by Mac Voyer
Well, Amorph, I disagree. This is not about chauvinism.

Not exclusively. But chauvinism is rampant. Not just male chauvinism, either: Any belief that some people are better than others is chauvinistic. The whole idea that the mass of people are too ignorant or too stupid to buy a computer is chauvinistic. Until J. Random Person can go to a computer store and walk home with just the thing they want - whatever that is - the industry is broken.

If car companies did what Apple was doing with the gumdrop iMac, then the LX would be blue and the EX would be green and the LE would be yellow and people would be walking into dealerships saying "I want the blue one."

Have you ever bought a new car?! There are, in fact, different finishes for different models within the same line. The same is true with musical instruments and anything else that can be segregated into models (I don't believe there's a "special edition" Gameboy Advance, is there? A GA is a GA is a GA, so that example is irrelevant).

And if you think people don't buy things because they like the color, you haven't spent a lot of time shopping with people. The line of reasoning you're prone to is far narrower than most, and it leaves out variables that lots of people consider. All you have to do is look at the tremendous amount of work and research done to make colors and textures look good and feel high-quality: This is big business. This is the mainstream that computers have resisted joining. And that resistance correlates precisely to the fear and dislike and distrust that so many people have for computers.

[BuonRotto]

It's very common practice for a similar model/chassis with better internals to get a more "sophisticated" finish: scanners, stereos, washing machines, refrigerators, etc. This was common practice well before the Graphite iMac showed up. Metal is usually deemed the more "elegant" material, and fiberglass/polycarb is usually the base model.
There's nothing wrong with that. If I'm paying more, I'd like to have some of that money go towards a better finish. There's no sin in finding value in that.

People think beauty is surface, that design is icing on a turd.

[pscates]

Get the hell back over to AppleOutsider where you belong! :D

[Wrong Robot]

Originally posted by Ahorse
(I don't believe there's a "special edition" Gameboy Advance, is there? A GA is a GA is a GA, so that example is irrelevant).



Actually there was, it featured a slightly bigger screen and better speakers if I'm not mistaken.

[kraig911]

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Actually there was, it featured a slightly bigger screen and better speakers if I'm not mistaken.

Theres the gameboy advance SP (fliptop backlight LCD screen, rechargeable battery) and a Gameboy Advance (no backlight LCd, runs on 4 AA batteries) The cheaper ones use plastic, the newer ones are coated or something.

Different colors for higher end merchandise is a rule of thumb, why do you think they only make red car the higher end models (well mostly anyway) Its just how things are. i just wish there was a commercial showing... (not some dude talking about it) a guy/girl using iphoto, idvd, making a dvd, and photoalbum and handing it to their relatives as presents, they ask wow how did you do this... they say, "oh.. on my iMac"

I know we've all said the same thing ourselves.

[applenut]

Originally posted by murbot
I thought tacky was an angry teenager with a horribly disfigured bubbling PowerBook, typing away furiously with titanium paint chips flying left and right, calling one of the most elegant computers ever designed "tacky" out of spite.

But then again, I'm horrible with english and almost never check a dictionary.

:p

**insert totally loud hearty laugh with a Canadian accent**

touché!


You're still my bitch

[mpw_amherst]

and the ruby, indigo, and sage iMacs

I agree, my favourite colours. I always got a graphite iMac cos it was the highest spec. I bought my Dad an indigo one for Christmas - he still has it and I still think its the best looking desktop Mac.

I'm currently the kinda proud owner of a 17" iMac. For ages I wanted the iMac to go G4, have a superdrive and a widescreen display. All of this I got, and in technical terms it is the best Apple I've ever owned. I rate it thus, for the simple reason of a rank amateur, that its the only Mac that I've NEVER (touch wood) had the need to do a clean install on. The thing just works, keeps working and I use it for everything. I love the fact that I can adjust the display so much - something that was never really a selling point when I bought the system. I will have to be strongly convinced to get rid of it ...

... but I do want to get rid of it. Why? Because from the day it came out I disliked the way the new iMac looked - I think it looks like a dumpling with a cocktail stick sticking out of it. I'd be more than happy to return to the colours of the old iMac, even a similar, thinner, LCD form factor - frankly - because, as so many of you have said, it looked like a cool, trendy piece of kit - not something that a geek would umm and ahh over, but everyone. I'm also a big fan of the 12" Powerbook - the best looking portable, in my opinion. I particulalry love the metal keyboard. However, I don't know how Apple can carry that over to the iMac and still make it trendy - warm, like the gumdrop - as opposed to cold and austere.

Its a big challenge, made greater by Sony's increasing competence with design. I know some good and bad things have been said about their AIO W1, but I saw one the other day In Waitrose, along with their new displays and it all looks pretty good. I'm not saying Apple can't beat it (and the current iMac display beats it hands down on manouverability, obviously) but at least it doesn't look like a desk lamp or comedy dumpling.

I hope I'm impressed in January, if/when the new iMac is unveiled. I want to love it like the old one.

[pscates]

I feel the same way, mpw. It didn't bother me one single bit to sell my iMac G4. I had NO sort of attachment or sentimental, "gonna miss ya!" feelings toward it whatsoever. Could've just been me, but I've heard many people say this, so your comments struck me.

I dug my G4 iMac and loved the whole "screen on an arm" thing, but it was just a hunk of plastic to me, where my tangerine iMac DV was - hands down - the coolest computer I ever owned! Something about it, I guess. Partly sentimental (my first "good", modern Mac?), the color (ha!), the chick-magnet coolness and "wow" factor it had, etc.

(...and I get it back next week) :) Gonna Pantherize it and put it to work as a living room-based iTunes jukebox and visitor/guest surfing station!

[Matsu]

The new iMac is superior to the old one in every design sense. It looks better; it works better. I don't prefer any gumdrops to the luxo-lamp. I guess I'm just too cool.

People saying it looks ridiculous are being a bunch of silly bandwagon jumpers. It looks damn good. Its price doesn't, nor its expansion, but it's a beautiful design that speaks to anyone with aesthetic sense. Maybe that's why it's so wrong, then, most people don't have any aesthetic sense. Better to sell them kitschy gumdrops, which, while not ugly, were far less challenging to the average person's limited design vocabulary.

My favorite gumdrops were "Snow" "Tangerine" and "Graphite" -- not sure about the order of tangerine and graphite in that mix, it would all depend on my mood. Some, were just plain ugly -- hello "Lime" -- and others didn't really stand out either way, the subdued Sage for example, not offensive, but not particularly interesting either.

Now if you wanna talk color, lets talk color. Polished magnesium would look amazing, but perhaps not as the backing for the display. That lovely automotive orange, slighly burnt and metallic, would look wonderful both on the base and the screen backing -- it also contrasts nicely with steel surfaces, like the arm.

Some candy colors like those seen on high end espresso machines would also work nicely: a deep red or blue, but not metallic, the same for a black.

The current iMac recalls some truly great shapes, not just lamps, but stand mixers, tanker desks, and jukeboxes to name but a few.

What the fvck is wrong with you people when I'm here defending the iMac?

[neumac]

Originally posted by pscates
my tangerine iMac DV was - hands down - the coolest computer I ever owned! Something about it, I guess. Partly sentimental (my first "good", modern Mac?), the color (ha!) (...and I get it back next week) :) Gonna Pantherize it and put it to work as a living room-based iTunes jukebox and visitor/guest surfing station!

I just replaced my tangerine iMac DV with a used PowerMac and I'll be passing the iMac on to my mother-in-law at Christmas (her first computer). I'm going to miss it. Something about the things just makes you grow attached to them.

I had a G4 iMac on my desk at work for a year and loved the machine. But when I upgraded to a new 1.25 GHz PowerMac a few months back, the sentimental attachment just wasn't there.

And yes, color was a huge factor in buying the first iMac and liking it as much as I did. I even bought one of those mini-me tangerine iMac clocks to sit next to it on my desk, although that's probably more than anyone here wanted to know.

[satchmo]

Originally posted by Matsu
The new iMac is superior to the old one in every design sense. It looks better; it works better. I don't prefer any gumdrops to the luxo-lamp. I guess I'm just too cool.

People saying it looks ridiculous are being a bunch of silly bandwagon jumpers. It looks damn good. Its price doesn't, nor its expansion, but it's a beautiful design that speaks to anyone with aesthetic sense. Maybe that's why it's so wrong, then, most people don't have any aesthetic sense. Better to sell them kitschy gumdrops, which, while not ugly, were far less challenging to the average person's limited design vocabulary.



Amen!
A design something as radical as the iMac naturally leads to a discussion of aesthetics. And because aesthetics are so subjective, you'll get those who love it and those who hate it.

I must admit that I was completely floored by the design of the current iMac when it was unveiled at MacWorld. But I didn't fall in love with the design right away. Only after studying and seeing it in person that I understood it's brillant design.

What many don't realize is that it's often more difficult to design something simple than something complex. With simplicity, you have to be perfect.

[thegelding]

i love my floating screen iMac (and still love the iMac DV blueberry in the kids room--though sage and ruby are my favs for colors...simple and lovely)...part of the reason people may dismiss the iMac FP is because you almost never see the base...i have mine positioned so that the screen is all you see when you work at it...the bubble macs took more space and had more "personality", the new iMac FP is more functional, but also more hidden...but i like that...half the PC people who see my iMac FP still think it is just a screen and that the rest of the computer is under the desk or something...gotta love those PC people...stupid little fools that they are


g

ps...1799 for the dual G5 might be the edu price after jan...

pss...if the iMac gets a G5 in jan i will get a new toy...if not, i might have to check out a tower for the first time in my life....or i could just wait...

[pscates]

:D

My Mom came to visit me a couple of years ago when I was in SoCal and she saw my iMac and the FIRST thing out of her mouth: "where is it?"

She thought the dome was just something for the LCD to attach to.

:)

She was looking under my desk for a tower.

She promptly freaked out when I explained to her - by popping open the SuperDrive tray and spinning the dome around to show the ports in the back - that what she saw WAS "it".

"How do they fit all that in there? The hard drive is in that? The guts? The whole thing? I don't get it..."

"It's Apple, Mom. They do this crap in their sleep."

:)

[kraig911]

anyone made the correlation that if the base is magnesium whatchamacalet that the screen bezel will be also...

wait wait does this mean..

new displays as well?:D

[mmmpie]

Originally posted by Matsu
The new iMac is superior to the old one in every design sense. It looks better; it works better. I don't prefer any gumdrops to the luxo-lamp. I guess I'm just too cool.


You miss the point. It isnt that the new iMac isnt a fantastic machine, or that the old iMac looks better. Its an undefinable - undesignable ? - sentimental, attachment. The old iMac inspires some sort of human relationship with the machine. Ive never felt it for the new iMac, but I really like my indigo ( and Ive just hijacked it ). Somehow the new iMac is a machine whose functionality is brilliant, whose design is a pinnacle of bauhaus design. I just dont love, I wont fight for it. Beautiful, but so remote...

[Ensign Pulver]

I'm still astonished that nearly two years after its introduction how many people still have no idea that the iMac's display moves. I was with a group of non-tech friends at the Grove Apple store recently and when one of the girls moved the screen she thought she had broken it and reached out to save it from falling. I've also seen similar episodes at Fry's and CompUSA.

People instantly "got" the original iMac's design and appeal because it was so dead simple and immediate. Though it seems ridiculous to criticize the new iMac for "failing" in this regard, its design may be actually a little too brilliant. The new iMac must be explained, a "fault" it shares with the ill-fated Cube.

[Gandalf the Semi-Coherent]

My favorite gumdrops were "Snow" "Tangerine" and "Graphite" -- not sure about the order of tangerine and graphite in that mix, it would all depend on my mood. Some, were just plain ugly -- hello "Lime"

Hey, I switched back to Mac primarily because of the Lime iMac, which I still own, which has an Epson 740i with the Lime green lid that matches, and which I upgraded with a new hard drive and additional memory because I don't want to get rid of it, even if it's a G3.

Now that I've heard that Panther actually runs well on G3 machines, I likely will upgrade to that before buying a new Mac.

I'm that attached to my little colored jellybean.

GTSC

[murbot]

I liked my G3 iMac before I made a terrible, terrible mistake. I sat it down beside an LCD display, then later a cheap 17" CRT.

G3 iMac case, design, style: 9/10

G3 iMac display: -14,356/10

[mmmpie]

The old iMac is a prime candidate for a mod. I think that an eMac logic board would fit in there nicely, and a 17" lcd screen. Perfect. Now I just need to find a sage iMac to kill.

[imacFP]

I had a DVSE and it was a great computer and I have FP iMac and it is way better than the DVSE. I like the fact that the screen can move and you really don't notice the dome when you're sitting in front of it. The iMac CRT was a perfect design but the FP iMac is a perfect design too. It allows you to do what you're supposed to do with an flat panel--move it. Why have a light, thin screen if you can't move it? The other thing, and people may deny it, is that the eMac is really just a 17" version of the 15" iMac that people wanted so bad. If Apple had made a 17" CRT iMac it might have been a bit more refined than the eMac, but maybe not, and we'll never know. Apple didn't change the world with the FP iMac but they did in many ways with the iPod and ITMS. Lighting doesn't always strike twice.

[pscates]

Yeah, the eMac was what so many were screaming for in 2000 or so: a 17" iMac with a G4. Two years later... (it was spring 2002, right?).

Anyway...

[Lemon Bon Bon]

Two years later...

Or should that be, 'Two years TOO later...' ?

;)

Lemon Bon Bon

[BuonRotto]

Meh. If people thought the new iMac intro was anti-climactic at the time, just imagine how dismally the eMac would have been received. Apple should take these risks.

People often like to accuse Apple of resting on its laurels. If Apple did settle for "good enough" designs like that, those people's opinions would be quite justified.

I'd rather see Apple take risks and fail on occasion than have them hope inertia carries them to mild success.