What happened to Zoom Window???

[stevegongrui]

how do I zoom window in panther?
there used to be a zoom window under the window menu in jaguar. It is no longer there.

I want to make a window in finder fill the entire screen without having to drag it large.

[piwozniak]

1. It's still there...
2. Green dot in upper left corner (+)

[mrmister]

Riiiight...but why is it gone from the menu?

[johnq]

1. It's not in the Finder's Window menu but it should be everywhere else (if it ever had it).
2. The green dot's Zoom feature is entirely sporadic.
- Finder toggles between current user-defined window size and placement and a show-only-window-contents mode which makes the window as small as needed to just show the available content (so this can vary).
- Other apps (Safari) only make themselves take up the whole height from Dock to menu but don't change the width.
- Still more apps do indeed expand to the entire available non-Dock, non-Menu space.
- Possibly more variations?

If it's something you routinely do, you can usually make an AppleScript (sometimes JavaScript) to make windows pop to maximum or custom sets of windows etc...

But I would love it if green dot ALWAYS maximized to full screen except the Dock...probably won't happen. It's enough in a developer's control that I don't think we'll ever see it used in a standard fashion.

[stevegongrui]

Originally posted by piwozniak
1. It's still there...
2. Green dot in upper left corner (+)


1. No it's not

2. the green button is to size it according to contents. If you try pressing it, it does not put the window to full view. (ie. is sporadic)


So wtf are you talking about?

[Kickaha]

He's right steve.

Zoom has *ALWAYS* worked that way, since the very earliest Mac days. It is *not* maximize, ala Windows. Never has been.

Now *SOME* apps have chosen over the last couple of years to break this, and perform maximize, but this is just plain wrong, and those apps are generally being fixed over time.


Full screen maximization is not a Mac behaviour. Never has been.

Likewise, *some* apps offer Zoom in the Window menu, such as Safari 1.2. Just checked it. Finder does not.

[\/\/ickes]

Ok... just wondering.

Why?

Why has System*/OS* never had the fullscreen maximize option? While I don't use it much... it does come in handy when working on the computers at my school.

[stevegongrui]

Originally posted by Kickaha
He's right steve.

Zoom has *ALWAYS* worked that way, since the very earliest Mac days. It is *not* maximize, ala Windows. Never has been.




No he's not.

In Jaguar in FINDER in the Window menu there was "zoom window" and what it did was maximise ala windows.


Don't believe me? Check it out on a Jaguar machine

[stevegongrui]

Originally posted by \/\/ickes
Ok... just wondering.

Why?

Why has System*/OS* never had the fullscreen maximize option?


It has had the fullscreen maximise option.

[Kickaha]

Originally posted by stevegongrui
No he's not.

In Jaguar in FINDER in the Window menu there was "zoom window" and what it did was maximise ala windows.


Don't believe me? Check it out on a Jaguar machine

Way to edit out the rest of my post that explained that...

Apps that maximize are BROKEN. Period. Deal with it.

Zoom has been removed from the Finder for Panther. Deal with it.

Got it?

Finder in Jag was broken. It's been fixed.


Wickes:

Fullscreen is a lazy thing to do for apps that want to force you to work in one-app-at-a-time mode. Under Windows, that seems to be the norm. Think about it though... why on earth would you want the window to take up more room than the content? Blank space? Wasted space. Zoom, appropriately done, toggles between an optimum size for the content, and whatever custom size the user may have adjusted a window to.

Not all apps do it right, admittedly (like Jag's Finder, which was BROKEN, just to hammer home the point for those that may not have gotten it yet), but most do, and those that just lazily maximize are *completely* against the HIG and are (wait for it) *broken* and need to be fixed.

If you want fullsize, drag it full size one time, then use the Zoom toggle (green widget) to pop between that and the optimal size.

[stevegongrui]

I don't think you understand why I need it.

In finder I make all items kept arranged. The finder windows never contain the objects in a correct way, it's always too long and vertical.

pressing the green button does not help at all.


The zoom window is crucial when there are hundreds of files in a folder. I want to see as much of the contents as possible.
and dragging the window big takes ages when there are lots of files in there, I have a G4 not a G5.

[PB]

Originally posted by stevegongrui

In Jaguar in FINDER in the Window menu there was "zoom window" and what it did was maximise ala windows.


Don't believe me? Check it out on a Jaguar machine

Hmm, I am under Jaguar and just tried your suggestion. Indeed, the Finder does this exactly. But, if you click the green button of a Finder window, it switches between current and optimal window size. It looks like an inconsistency, since the zoom button never worked in the Mac in any application like the zoom menu item of Jaguar's Finder.

[piwozniak]

Originally posted by stevegongrui
1. No it's not

2. the green button is to size it according to contents. If you try pressing it, it does not put the window to full view. (ie. is sporadic)


So wtf are you talking about?

http://homepage.mac.com/piwozniak/.Pictures/ID10T.jpg


I'm not gonna repeat what Kickaha already have said...

[Kickaha]

Originally posted by stevegongrui
I don't think you understand why I need it.

In finder I make all items kept arranged. The finder windows never contain the objects in a correct way, it's always too long and vertical.

pressing the green button does not help at all.

Solution: don't tell the Finder to keep everything arranged for you. That gives the Finder free rein to move things around however *it* likes - and the way *it* likes is for a tall window, since that's what cognitive and perception research indicates is easiest for most people to deal with. By telling the Finder 'keep arranged', you gave up all control of the layout.


The zoom window is crucial when there are hundreds of files in a folder. I want to see as much of the contents as possible.
and dragging the window big takes ages when there are lots of files in there, I have a G4 not a G5.

Turn off 'keep arranged'. Or, since you must be using icon view, try another view such as list or column.

It sounds to me like you came to rely on a bug and broken behaviour, and now it's been fixed. Unfortunate, but look for other options.

[stevegongrui]

Originally posted by Kickaha
Solution: don't tell the Finder to keep everything arranged for you. That gives the Finder free rein to move things around however *it* likes - and the way *it* likes is for a tall window, since that's what cognitive and perception research indicates is easiest for most people to deal with. By telling the Finder 'keep arranged', you gave up all control of the layout.




Turn off 'keep arranged'. Or, since you must be using icon view, try another view such as list or column.

It sounds to me like you came to rely on a bug and broken behaviour, and now it's been fixed. Unfortunate, but look for other options.


Yeah, I'll try to adapt. But it still annoys me how without the keep arranged I would have to do "arrange" by name or whatever in all my windows at least once to make them layout nicely.

[Kickaha]

Well, you *could* write a little AppleScript that triggers the manual "Arrange By...", and make it into a Folder Action for those folders... anytime you drop something in there, it'll re-arrange appropriately, but not give it total control on the layout when you Zoom.

[johnq]

Why is there a screenshot of Safari with the Zoom menu?

Didn't we already say that some apps have the Zoom menu item but Panther Finder doesn't?

[stevegongrui]

Originally posted by johnq
Why is there a screenshot of Safari with the Zoom menu?

Didn't we already say that some apps have the Zoom menu item but Panther Finder doesn't?

He got confused

[piwozniak]

No he didn't


read your question stevegongrui, where does it say you're asking about FINDER window...?

I was replying to your reply,


EDIT: so you don't get confused:
1. No it's not

2. the green button is to size it according to contents. If you try pressing it, it does not put the window to full view. (ie. is sporadic)


So wtf are you talking about?

EDIT 2: #1 from the above...

[Kickaha]

This sucker's spiraling towards a lock.

steve, has your question been answered?

[Luca]

There should be a special "Steve Forum" where Steve here can ask all the questions he could possibly want to ask. Then when people come to give him advice, he can yell at them for being wrong. It would be a good way to wind down at the end of the day.

[murbot]

I'm almost certain that Steve is either a program, or a student conducting some type of psychology experiment.

I just can't see any normal person behaving the way he does and actually MEANING it.

[johnq]

piwozniak, If you follow the thread carefully, you'll see stevegongrui was indeed talking about Panther's Finder's lacking a Zoom window menu item regardless of what he said in your quote.

stevegongrui
--
how do I zoom window in panther? there used to be a zoom window under the window menu in jaguar. It is no longer there.
I want to make a window in finder fill the entire screen without having to drag it large.
--

piwozniak
--
1. It's still there...
2. Green dot in upper left corner (+)
--

That answer was based on you not reading the actual question, so he said:

stevegongrui
--
1. No it's not (The Zoom menu item is not in the Panther Finder's Window menu)
2. the green button is to size it according to contents. If you try pressing it, it does not put the window to full view. (ie. is sporadic) Moot answer, but he's clarifying why that isn't the same to him
--

<Bunch of people start arguing over what the green widget does, getting further from answering his question still...Steve restates the problem again>

stevegongrui
--
No he's not.
In Jaguar in FINDER in the Window menu there was "zoom window" and what it did was maximise ala windows.
Don't believe me? Check it out on a Jaguar machine
--

<More distraction ensues. PB comes to the rescue to effectively say Jaguar does indeed have a Zoom menu item in the Window menu and it does maximize, unlike in Panther.>

<piwozniak posts image of Safari with Zoom menu, again, not the issue.>

<lots of back and forthing about window spacing/sizing and personalities....>

DING! Bottom line: Steve was right. And there is no solution to restore the Zoom functionality to Panther.

Good night all!

[Brad]

Originally posted by johnq
DING! Bottom line: Steve was right. And there is no solution to restore the Zoom functionality to Panther. Wrong wrong wrong... :\

This whole complaint has been based on misinformation.

Since the 80s, the zoom button's functionality has been to toggle between a user-set size and the fitted size. This functionality was partly lost in the transition to Mac OS X as apps like the Finder were rewritten from scratch and developers were playing catch-up with the more minor features like this.

Read what Kickaha said. Finder in Jaguar was broken. It's been fixed now, at least, for icon mode.

It has never been proper for Mac apps to use the zoom button to maximize windows to fill the screen.

[johnq]

Brad Brad Brad :D

Sorry, we are talking about:

The Finder in Panther no longer has a Zoom menu item in its Window menu as it once had in Jaguar.

Attention everyone: Steve's original concern was the above and not anything to do with the green widget's functionality, nor what Zoom as a Finder menu item ought to do to windows.

Yes he was derailed into discussing those things but I assure you, based on what I outline in my previous post, Steve is right in that: The Finder in Panther no longer has a Zoom menu item in its Window menu as it once had in Jaguar.

That's all I mean.

Everyone take a deep breath :D

(edit: got my kitties mixed up!)

[stevegongrui]

Originally posted by Brad
Wrong wrong wrong... :\

This whole complaint has been based on misinformation.

Since the 80s, the zoom button's functionality has been to toggle between a user-set size and the fitted size. This functionality was partly lost in the transition to Mac OS X as apps like the Finder were rewritten from scratch and developers were playing catch-up with the more minor features like this.

Read what Kickaha said. Finder in Jaguar was broken. It's been fixed now, at least, for icon mode.

It has never been proper for Mac apps to use the zoom button to maximize windows to fill the screen.


WTF are you talking about?????

if you could just read I never talk about the green button with the plus sign. I talk about zoom window under whe window menu in finder.

[stevegongrui]

Sorry guys, but it's just frustrating when people don't read what I wrote correctly and think I mean somethnig else and try to say that I'm wrong.

[stevegongrui]

So why did they get rid of the zoom window feature?

And why do we still not have cut file and paste file? (move a file from one directory to another like in windows) I'm so pissed apple doesn't implement this. I see no UI inconsistencies or problems with it, especially when copy file is in mac os.

[piwozniak]

http://homepage.mac.com/piwozniak/.Pictures/jackass.jpg

[piwozniak]

johnq

I'm sorry my posting of Safari screenshot have caused you so much grief and mental aggravation.

All i can say in my my defense: WHY DON"T YOU KISS MY ROSY A$$?

Good night everyone,
Tomorrow we can discuss how many Swingle Singers songs can fit on memory stick and what can we do with such an item..


Kickaha, lock this stupid thread.

[Kickaha]

steve, search for precisely the cut/copy/pasting of files in Finder - it's been done to death. Apple is right.

And this thread has more than served any purpose it may have had.