Summer of Terror 2004

[segovius]

The Bush (and Blair) government is complicit with the 'terrorists' (whoever they may be). Whether wittingly or unwittingly is not the subject of this thread but I think it is time to realise this. I do not say they are working with them - but they are exploiting what they do for their own ends and this, at the very least, is a symbiotic relationship.

Here's Exhibit A (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/4/19/150934.shtml) - there are hundreds of others (literally) but this is all we need for now.

This little gem, from Fox no less, quotes an FBI agent saying summer 2004 will be remembered as 'the summer of terror'. (nice tagline btw - got a feeling we could hear it quite a lot).

I'll give some quotes - remember nothing has happened yet and he is not talking about a summer of 'heightened awareness', 'increased vigilance' or even, a summer of prevention of terror - he says clearly 'summer of terror' knowing full well what that implies. The quotes (pay special attention to the bold bits):

"For the last six months or so ... we keep hearing chatter and information that's filtering down ... you should really be concerned about some of the things you've discussed."

"We've continually underestimated them....."

Jarrett said: "I'm still stunned by what you said ... Summer of Terror. Can we stop it?" - Agent Copus replied: "I'm not sure that we can always stop it. We're wide open as a country,

What exactly is the message here if you analyse it ?

Terrorism is defined by Webster as "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion". I.e.to cause fear in a populace or group in order to influence them in a specific way.

I would cite the German bombing of London in WW2 as a terrorist act. It was intended to break the spirit of the British people and if it had succeeded then Germany may well have won the war - certainly Britain would have been conquered.

Why did it fail to 'terrorise' the British people ? Because it wasn't frightening ? No. Because the British were somehow impervious to it ? No.

It failed (or Britain succeeded if you prefer) because all the government propaganda focussed on Britain as a nation, pulling together, indivisible and unbeatable.

Churchill didn't get on the radio and start saying "expect massive attacks, we can't stop it - there's Nazis hiding round every corner, be afraid" He never scared the British populace and they all felt at one with their government and that they would prevail because of it.

Bush, I'm afraid, scares the populace (he sure as hell scares me - sorry couldn't resist). So does Blair. They WANT them to be afraid - so you can vote for them to protect you. They WANT them to see tanks and military presence and increased security - so they can feel they are doing something. They WANT them to feel there is a 'bin Laden™', 'Zarqawi™' or 'Saddam™' poised ready to strike whenever least expected - then whatever steps are 'necessary' (war and more war perhaps) will be approved.

What is this if it is not "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion" ?

They are complicit.

[johnq]

Sigh.

This isn't just *any* summer.

It is the summer leading up to the U.S. presidential election. That's all there is to it. You make it seem like we are all cowering in our basements. We aren't. if anything we are jaded. Take your pick. Flocking to the hardware store for duct tape and plastic sheeting or yawning at a raised Homeland Security code level? One can find whatever reaction to anything one needs to fit one's point.

With the Madrid Tactic clearly "successful", even if only in perception of the public, it is a no-brainer that there will be terroristic attempts to disrupt things prior to the '04 Election (or during).

Obviously, the U.S. is basically a perpetual target since 9/11 proved so "successful" in dragging the U.S. further into conflicts with Muslim countries, (aka Osama Bin Laden's goal).

We are in an endless cycle. But this summer is especially at risk of being marred by a big event or many smaller ones. Why shouldn't it be, from a terrorist's perspective?

It's not as if there aren't terrorists out there. This isn't a Tom Clancy story with fictitious terrorists created by a evil, citizen-controlling U.S. government. :rolleyes:

The various U.S. government agencies have been inept for years, let's not ascribe too much credit where it's not due.

Are fatcats getting richer pseudo-fortifying America (we are not at all safer, of course) at the expense of limiting our freedoms? You bet. WIll it all sway back to the middle and further to the left for another 8 years? Likely. Welcome to America and an all-too two-party system.

[segovius]

Originally posted by johnq
Sigh.

This isn't just *any* summer.

It is the summer leading up to the U.S. presidential election. That's all there is to it. You make it seem like we are all cowering in our basements. We aren't. if anything we are jaded. Take your pick. Flocking to the hardware store for duct tape and plastic sheeting or yawning at a raised Homeland Security code level? One can find whatever reaction to anything one needs to fit one's point.

Hello again :D

You miss my point on several distinct levels.

This isn't about the election - the tactic I describe has been pressed into service since day one of the WOT (whenever that was - I forget). Admittedly it may go into overdrive now but that kind of proves my point: scare people to get them to vote for you.

Re cowering in basements: I'm sure not. But again, this isn't about the public's reaction but the government's intention. So they failed again - shock, horror. I'm talking about their motivation and what they're trying to achieve. Of course they *** it up - that's a given.

With the Madrid Tactic clearly "successful", even if only in perception of the public, it is a no-brainer that there will be terroristic attempts to disrupt things prior to the '04 Election (or during).

Well, it rather depends on whose 'no-brain' we're talking about, doesn't it ?

Personally, I think that the US is basically sealed down - no attack since 911. Sure, they SAY they've foiled some but we see no details and no prosecutions. Nada. Because it doesn't get to that point. If the capability was there it would have happened. What are they waiting for ? No reason since 911 is good enough yet ?

Obviously, the U.S. is basically a perpetual target since 9/11 proved so "successful" in dragging the U.S. further into conflicts with Muslim countries, (aka Osama Bin Laden's goal).

I wouldn't really assume that is OBL's goal necessarily but see above.

We are in an endless cycle. But this summer is especially at risk of being marred by a big event or many smaller ones. Why shouldn't it be, from a terrorist's perspective?

It's not as if there aren't terrorists out there. This isn't a Tom Clancy story with fictitious terrorists created by a evil, citizen-controlling U.S. government. :rolleyes:

We are in a cycle - that's for sure. It isn't endless and after Bush gets back in and rampages around the ME for a while causing unknown horrors - it will end. Five more years and the cycle is over. Just a question of who's left standing.

Also, with respect, this 'from a terrorist's pov' is a massive problem. Every time I hear that it is followed by some 'western' thinking.

I don't know how 'terrorists' think but I know how westerners think as I am one, and I also know how middle easterners think. The two are worlds apart.

I'm not saying that this summer is 'special' for them or not. Just that 'they' don't think as we do so we have to be careful in judging.

In this regard, I had a conversation recently with a friend in Madrid about the bombings there. He believed it was al-Q and he also believed that they did it to ensure Aznar got kicked out. I couldn't believe this (the rationale not the al-Q bit) - before the event I would have thought that if a bomb went off it would sweep Aznar back into power but he said no, al-Q knew it would have the opposite effect.

Think about that. If true it means that you are dealing with people who have a penetrating insight into the western mind - not only far greater than any equivalent a westerner has about easterners but far greater psychological insight than we have of ourselves.

The various U.S. government agencies have been inept for years, let's not ascribe too much credit where it's not due.

Your're right there.

Are fatcats getting richer pseudo-fortifying America (we are not at all safer, of course) at the expense of limiting our freedoms? You bet. WIll it all sway back to the middle and further to the left for another 8 years? Likely. Welcome to America and an all-too two-party system.

I disagree there if you mean Bush will lose the election. Not only is Kerry an equivalent in my view (and potentially worse - difficult to tell now) but Bush ain't going nowhere. This whole 'adventure' isn't just an organic thing - people have been planning and plotting for power for years, waiting for their time in the sun.

Bush losing isn't part of the plan. There's more wars to fight yet - we barely got going.

[Artman @_@]

Churchill had his own Summer of Terror...

"What General Weygand has called the Battle of France is over. The Battle of Britain is about to begin. Upon this battle depends the survival of Christian civilization. Upon it depends our own British life, and the long continuity of our institutions and our Empire. The whole fury and might of the enemy must very soon be turned on us. Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this Island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him, all Europe may be free and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands. But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour.'"

Winston Churchill
House of Commons, June18th 1940

/alligot.

:smokey:

[segovius]

Originally posted by Artman @_@
Churchill had his own Summer of Terror...



Thank you. My point exactly.

The differences between the Churchill and Bush/Blair approach must be evident to even the most attenuated attention capacity.

But maybe not.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by segovius
In this regard, I had a conversation recently with a friend in Madrid about the bombings there. He believed it was al-Q and he also believed that they did it to ensure Aznar got kicked out. I couldn't believe this (the rationale not the al-Q bit) - before the event I would have thought that if a bomb went off it would sweep Aznar back into power but he said no, al-Q knew it would have the opposite effect.

Think about that. If true it means that you are dealing with people who have a penetrating insight into the western mind - not only far greater than any equivalent a westerner has about easterners but far greater psychological insight than we have of ourselves. Spain is not the same as the US. In Spain, most of the populace disagreed with the war in Iraq. When terrorism hit, some may have perceived that as confirming what those who were anti-war believed: that going into Iraq would subject Spain to more terror attacks.

In the US, believe it or not, most people support Bush in his war on terrorism, and most people have supported the war in Iraq as part of that war. IMO, a terrorist attack in the US would play in Bush's favor, because it would make people see the need for what they perceive as a strong leader in the war on terrorism. That will always play into Bush's favor over Kerry's. Not sure if al Qaeda understands that though. And I definitely don't think al Qaeda and bin Laden understand American public opinion.

Now that's not the same as the situation in Iraq. The more fucked up that gets, the more that hurts Bush politically.

[Artman @_@]

Originally posted by segovius
Thank you. My point exactly.

The differences between the Churchill and Bush/Blair approach must be evident to even the most attenuated attention capacity.

But maybe not.

True. Except we (well, Britain...) were fighting for their major concerns:

1. Christian Civilization
2. British Empire
3. All of Europe

Churchill though saw beyond that. He knew Hitler was evil to the core. But still, the whole reason for our invasion of Iraq today is for:

1. Freedom
2. Democracy
3. Whiskey

/oiltoo

:smokey:

[segovius]

Originally posted by Artman @_@
True. Except we (well, Britain...) were fighting for their major concerns:

1. Christian Civilization
2. British Empire
3. All of Europe

Churchill though saw beyond that. He knew Hitler was evil to the core. But still, the whole reason for our invasion of Iraq today is for:

1. Freedom
2. Democracy
3. Whiskey

/oiltoo

:smokey:

Well Bush is no Churchill. Nor is Blair despite his penchant for casting himself in that role.

Btw - just read this article (http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/ts_comments.php?id=P59367_0_10_0_C) which may have some relevance to the scheduled 'Summer of Terror' extravaganza.

It seems a bill has been passed to place soldiers on the north and south borders of the US.

This is being mooted as an anti-immigration move but one has to question this. With the military in such short supply in Iraq they are being diverted to this effort. For what ?

WOT ? Why not say so - what's the problem ?

Draft ?

Anticipation of martial law as outlined by Franks as the response to a terrorist incident ?

[Artman @_@]

Jeez, don't you see it?

We're gonna invade Canada and Mexico!

FREEDOM!
DEMOCRACY!
TEQUILA!

/dontknowwhatcanadahas...

:smokey:

sorry, seriously derailing interesting topic...

[Giaguara]

Originally posted by segovius
Bush, I'm afraid, scares the populace (he sure as hell scares me - sorry couldn't resist). So does Blair. They WANT them to be afraid - so you can vote for them to protect you. They WANT them to see tanks and military presence and increased security - so they can feel they are doing something. They WANT them to feel there is a 'bin Laden™', 'Zarqawi™' or 'Saddam™' poised ready to strike whenever least expected - then whatever steps are 'necessary' (war and more war perhaps) will be approved.

What is this if it is not "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion" ?

We are in war .. we can't change the president now (in the next elections) ... right? That's what Bush wants you to think.

[craiger77]

I think OBL and his cohorts are smart enough to realize that they need Bush around as much as Bush needs them. You have to think that Osama must be really thinking God is on his side after we not only invaded Iraq, which pretty much validated what he has been saying of our intentions in the ME for years, but then we give him the whole prison torture debacle and uncritical support to Sharon's plans for the Palestinian territories to really help with his recruitment of more potential terrorists. We also seem to like to bomb weddings every once in awhile just to make sure we give him the kind of propaganda he needs to increase the Muslim worlds hate for America.

What al Qaeda does in the months leading up to the election will depend on what they perceive will help Bush get reelected. My feeling is that a major terrorist attack will probably give Bush the election on a plater since many of my fellow Americans still think Bush will fight against terrorist better than Kerry. If the terrorists assume the same then we will see something dramatic this summer...but they may also believe that a terrorists attack will weaken Bush if he is seen as failing to stop it. If they are really smart they will come up with some sort of attack that will let Bush say there was no way he could have prevented it.

As for timing I think they are also smart enough not to do something when and/or where we most expect it like the 4th of July or the conventions.

[segovius]

Looks like the advance billing is proceeding apace....the Feds have just issued this warning (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,640684,00.html) - as usual carefully worded to avoid irrational panic and dispel fear:

The FBI is warning law enforcement agencies to be on the alert for the possibility that suicide bombers may attempt to strike inside the United States.

It warns local badge-carriers to look for obvious signs of trouble — people wearing heavy, bulky jackets on warm days, smelling of chemicals, trailing wires from their jackets — as well, more subtle ones, such as tightly clenched fists. Someone who never shows his palms could be gripping a detonator rigged to go off when a button is released. "If you shoot him, you ' re still not safe because his hands relax and the bomb explodes," says a counter-terrorism official.

Trailing wires :lol:

And you can't even shoot 'em :lol: that should really ratchet up the fear a few notches....they're invincible (the ggggauuuullllsss......)

Ahem....excuse me.....sorry about that. Back to reality (?) - the last paragraph is a gem and one which warrants deep contemplation:

In fact, U.S. analysts are at a loss to explain why the homeland has thus far escaped such attacks, since a number of extremist groups, particularly Hamas, have a sizeable presence here.

One factor, officials say, is that terror leaders still regard America as a cash cow, and don't want to antagonize moderate Muslim donors.

Another reason, says one specialist, may simply be that while there seems to be an endless supply of fanatical youths willing to die for the cause in the Middle East, most of them simply can't get visas to the U.S.

So what's the problem - they can't get visas - stop with this bs already....

[Giaguara]

ah. even when i wear pants that are spposed to be strech and t-shirts, i get searched every single time i fly, as the stretch pants look bulky on me and i wear long sleeves as i'm freezing even in summer .... :(

[segovius]

Originally posted by Giaguara
ah. even when i wear pants that are spposed to be strech and t-shirts, i get searched every single time i fly, as the stretch pants look bulky on me and i wear long sleeves as i'm freezing even in summer .... :(

Don't clench your fists or leave any wires sticking out of anywhere and you should be fine ;)

[Giaguara]

... can't they just learn to recognize the iPod cables .. how can anyone fly wihtout an ipod??:embarrass

[segovius]

Originally posted by Giaguara
... can't they just learn to recognize the iPod cables .. how can anyone fly wihtout an ipod??:embarrass

:lol:

[Immanuel Goldstein]

Around the time of the Sydney Olympic games, the U.S. and its acolytes had foiled a terror attack against the venue, planned by an organisation related to Al-Qa’eda. Although information about this was released for the mass media, it wasn’t much publicised by Washington (I might have it on some paper somewhere) so not to reward the Jihadis with free advertising.

All this said and done, I’d avoid Athens (not the one in Georgia, the one in Greece) this summer, just to be on the safe side.

At best it'll probably be an organisational bardak anyway.

[dmz]

Originally posted by Giaguara
... can't they just learn to recognize the iPod cables .. how can anyone fly wihtout an ipod??:embarrass


....either that or they think you're going to break into the cockpit and force the pilot to listen a Slim Whitman/Eminem remix until he augers in.

[Gilsch]

Originally posted by johnq
This isn't just *any* summer. No kidding. It's Olympics summer, EuroCup summer, Copa America summer.....Van Halen reunion summer, and elections summer. :D
and With the Madrid Tactic clearly "successful", even if only in perception of the public :rolleyes: In the perception of ignorant fools who knew/know nothing about the Spanish elections, its candidates, and the previous government's attempt to manipulate the terrorist attack for political gain.
Anyone who thinks a country who days after a deadly bombing and not knowing if they were risking their lives(there could've been terrorist attacks planned for election day as far as anyone knew), went out to vote at the tune of almost 80% of it's electorate, gave in or voted for the terrorists (as some fools in the news called it)is an uninformed moron.

[segovius]

Originally posted by Gilsch
Van Halen reunion summer

omg - so the sensationalist terror warnings were true after all :wow: