Energy industry writes their own Executive Orders, and Bush's follow suit

[pfflam]

Like the thread title says: Energy Companies influence Bush by simply writing their own "Executive Orders" which they send to the Admin and which are, unsurprisingly, almost the same as the Executive Orders that the Bush Admin then later writes.

Also, Energy Department Official Kelliher siply asked the natural gas industry lobbyist Dana Contratto, in an email, what energy policy he would write if he were "if [he] were King, or il Duce . . ."

A good story outlining this 'energy policy' is on this good non-partisan site that also has links to Government Documents and provides easy to find archives and even peer2peer if you find a Gov doc you want to download
the site is outragedmoderates.org (http://www.outragedmoderates.org/)

BTW: story on energy Cos is middle of the page and is VERY WORTH LOOKING AT!

So what are those Dick Cheney docs that he is hiding from the AMerican People?
Are they directives from Oil Companies on how to run our country?
On how to run the environmental policies?
What is he hiding?

[bunge]

If the language used by the 'Energy industry', or any other 'industry' for that matter, made it into law then Bush broke the law. That's why people want the notes about the energy task force released, and why Cheney is fighting so hard to keep them hidden.

If there are lines copied verbatim, I believe Bush would have to go to jail.

[Scott]

I think it's Congress that passes the laws Bunge. And whatever makes it into law is the law therefor not illegal.

[bunge]

Originally posted by Scott
I think it's Congress that passes the laws Bunge. And whatever makes it into law is the law therefor not illegal.

I think this situation is different. If the recommendation from the President has language worded by a third party, it's a violation of federal law.

[groverat]

bunge is correct.

[Scott]

So if a law passes congress then it's illegal? What law is that?

[rageous]

Originally posted by Scott
So if a law passes congress then it's illegal? What law is that?

The law itself that gets passed isn't necessarily illegal, but it is illegal for the those involved in authoring the law to copy language used by third party sources in authoring said law.

[Scott]

What law is that?

[hardeeharhar]

Originally posted by Scott
What law is that?

Scott, stop being what you are self-described as.

[Towel]

He's talking about Executive Orders, not Congressional laws. Executive orders are issued by the President alone, and require no Congressional approval. Many details of environmental and industrial policy are set by executive order, usually through the exact specification of executive agency regulations.

That whole "arsenic in the water" brouhaha back in 2001 was over the threshold of arsenic allowed by EPA regulation - a threshold that could be re-set by exectuive order. Clinton issued an executive order to lower it. Bush intended to issue an executive order to restore it. No Congressional action was required in either event.

On the one hand, I'd consider it a pretty serious breach of the public trust if any administration just parrotted orders written by lobbyists. On the other hand, that sort of sh1t goes on all the time in Congress. A lobbyist group writes a prototype bill, and shops around until they can find a Congressman willing to introduce it at the right price. The stooge will usually do so without altering (or even reading?) the lobbyist bill. The whole system is broken, not just the White House.

[a10t2]

Speaking of broken systems, does anyone know what the precedent is for Executive Orders being law anyway? I couldn't find it in the US Code and I know it isn't in the Constitution.

[Aurora]

The fact of the matter is our govt is for sell to the highest donator, and these big business Ceo's ( george's buddies) are smart so what they do is give to both parties so the bill they want gets passed or just walk into George's office and tell him what to do. Bush isnt looking out for you and me he is looking out for the CEO's. Just another example of how Bush has done nothing for the American People and has done everything for CEo's of Haliburton, Enron,Tyco etc etc. its past time we get elected officials looking out for us not big business interest.

[Scott]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Scott, stop being what you are self-described as.

So let me get this straight? Bunge can come in here and declair that Bush broke the law and should got to jail. Then when I ask "what law" I'm told to shut up and stop being an ass?

I'll repeat. What law?

[bunge]

Originally posted by Scott
Bunge can come in here and declair that Bush broke the law....

Please don't make up lies about what I said.

Do some research about why Bush and Cheney are hiding the energy papers to find out what I'm talking about.

[Scott]

Originally posted by bunge
Please don't make up lies about what I said.

You didn't post this?

Originally posted by bunge
If there are lines copied verbatim, I believe Bush would have to go to jail.

and

Originally posted by bunge
If the recommendation from the President has language worded by a third party, it's a violation of federal law.

You're attempt to troll me by calling me a liar in the face of all evidence that I'm correct didn't work.

back on topic

What law?

[bunge]

Originally posted by Scott
You didn't post this?



and



You're attempt to troll me by calling me a liar in the face of all evidence that I'm correct didn't work.

back on topic

What law?

None of what I said declares that Bush broke the law. Thank you for quoting me, but I'm not sure how you could read that much into what I said.

[pfflam]

Well . . . BOT

Look at the site linked above . . . look at the absolute similarities between the Corporate mock-up, 'il-Duce' dream directives and the following Bush Order.

And these were the ones that we were allowed to see.

I can understand that an energy company would be in a position to understand many of the issues involved in meeting energy needs and production etc . . . . so of course consultatin with an energy corporation would be absolutely necessary for energy policies . . . . but clearly they have one bottom-line to bow down to and we, the people have many that are not related to theirs . . .

I think we deserve transparency and we deserve to have other interests equally influential in crafting the policies that we will be forced to live under . . .

[groverat]

I think we deserve transparency and we deserve to have other interests equally influential in crafting the policies that we will be forced to live under . . .

Communist.

[Harald]

Originally posted by pfflam
we deserve to have other interests equally influential in crafting the policies that we will be forced to live under . . .

Please also refer to "MPAA," "RIAA," "Intellectual Property Law."

[pfflam]

Originally posted by Harald
Please also refer to "MPAA," "RIAA," "Intellectual Property Law." :???:

[dmz]

So does all this mean that congress is part of the shadow government?

[Scott]

groverat? bunge? What law? Do you have and answer or are you two talking out of your asses?

[pfflam]

POKER WITH CHENEY (http://www.villagevoice.com/thebushbeat/)

"THE EDITORS: Two pair, sevens and fives.

DICK CHENEY: Not good enough.

TE: What do you have?

DC: Better than that, that's for sure. Pay up.

TE: Can you show us your cards?

DC: Sure. One of them's a six.

TE: You need to show all your cards. That's the way the game is played.

COLIN POWELL: Ladies and gentlemen. We have accumulated overwhelming evidence that Mr. Cheney's poker hand is far, far better than two pair. Note this satellite photo, taken three minutes ago when The Editors went to get more chips. In it we clearly see the back sides of five playing cards, arranged in a poker hand. Defector reports have assured us that Mr. Cheney's hand was already well advanced at this stage. Later, Mr. Cheney drew only one card. Why only one card? Would a man without a strong hand choose only one card? We are absolutely convinced that Mr. Cheney has at least a full house.

TIM RUSSERT: Wow. Colin Powell really hit a home run for the administration right there. A very powerful performance. My dad played a lot of poker in World War II, and he taught me many things about life. Read my book.

TE: He's extremely good at PowerPoint. But we would like to see the cards, or else we can't really be sure he has anything to beat two pair. We don't think he would lie to us, but . . . well, it is a very rich pot."

:lol: :lol:

[bunge]

Originally posted by Scott
groverat? bunge? What law? Do you have and answer or are you two talking out of your asses?

FACA (http://www.fda.gov/opacom/laws/fedadvca.htm)

Sections 5b(2) and 5b(3).

(2) require the membership of the advisory committee to be fairly balanced in terms of the points of view represented and the functions to be performed by the advisory committee;

(3) contain appropriate provisions to assure that the advice and recommendations of the advisory committee will not be inappropriately influenced by the appointing authority or by any special interest, but will instead be the result of the advisory committee's independent judgment;

[superkarate monkeydeathcar]

Originally posted by Scott
groverat? bunge? What law? Do you have and answer or are you two talking out of your asses?

was it confucious or david lee roth who said "only those who talk out their ass can get someone with their head UP their ass to hear"?

[powermacG6]

Originally posted by superkarate monkeydeathcar
was it confucious or david lee roth who said "only those who talk out their ass can get someone with their head UP their ass to hear"?

:lol: sounds like lee roth to me!

[bunge]

Originally posted by Scott
groverat? bunge? What law? Do you have and answer or are you two talking out of your asses?

Any further thoughts?

[midwinter]

I'm just curious: what's the penalty for breaking this law?

[Scott]

That's what you got huh bunge? I think I saw Bush jay walking this morning. If it's true he should go to jail!

[bunge]

Originally posted by Scott
That's what you got huh bunge?

I think the proper question here is, is this all YOU'VE got Scott?

[tonton]

Originally posted by Scott
That's what you got huh bunge? I think I saw Bush jay walking this morning. If it's true he should go to jail!

No, but he should pay his $20 fine and not gripe about it. If he refuses to pay, then he should go to jail.