This is the typical Conservative's spokesman?

[pfflam]

Michael Savage explains, after the Convention, why he won't vote for the democrats: his explanation . . . . "Im a white racist arshole"

I don't know much about this guy, but I get the sense that he is the tip of the iceberg with respect to many Right-wing ideas . . . How true is this?

from here Media Matters (http://mediamatters.org/items/200407300014)

Savage said the following:SAVAGE: You know something; I'm voting for Bush, I just made up my mind. There's nothing in this for me. I'm a white male, I'm a white, male, married heterosexual -- I don't want the Democrats. Everywhere I turn, there's another hot coal in my eye. For example, today's DNC calendar of public events included lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender meeting, the disability meeting, the ethnic meeting, the American Indian meeting, the Asian/Pacific Islander meeting, the Hispanic meeting, and the African American meeting -- God bless 'em, they're entitled to their meeting, I'm entitled to my vote, they're not my party, end of story. And that's it. I'm not voting for a party of ethnic minorities and women and immigrants. I will not do it. And if I thought for a moment that they had changed their direction, if I thought for a moment there was a new Democrat Party that was more centrist and more focused on the real issues of today, I would have considered, well, maybe sitting the election out, or voting for Kerry -- no, I'm not.Is this dispicable man truly a voice for the unspoken thoughts of the right?

[Scott]

Yes. No. Maybe.

[BRussell]

The only demographic Bush won in 2000 was white males, and that was around 60-35. He lost every other major ethnic group and he lost women. Married people, and married people with kids (that's you and me pfflam), are overwhelmingly republican as well.

So yeah, I'd like to see what % of married, white, male, heterosexuals vote Republican. They must be overwhelmingly republican - 75% maybe? The exit polls aren't broken down that narrow, but I bet it's around there.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/epolls/US/P000.html

(Lots of interesting stuff in those exit polls. Look at church attendance - the more you go to church, the more republican you are.)

[groverat]

Michael Weiner (that's his real name) is a racist shitbag. Always has been always will be. And yes, he is very popular. Frightening eh?

[Aquatic]

JOHN KERRY IS A GAY FRENCH JEWISH COMMUNIST FAGGOTT!!1111 HE IS UNAMERICAN! DID YU SEE THE WAY HE WAS MAKING OUT WITH EDWARDS1!! THATS SO GAY!!!

[Aquatic]

Seriously though, it looks like he got more love than Al Gore's wife last time.

[SDW2001]

Originally posted by Aquatic
Seriously though, it looks like he got more love than Al Gore's wife last time.

hahahaha

[SDW2001]

Seriously,

I think savage is an ASS. pfflam, I have to take issue with your title. You don't believe that Savage is the "typical conservative spokesman". It's not even a question in the title, it's a statement. Other conservatives (like say hosts Limbaugh and Hannity) do not have his racist, hateful bent.

[little mouse]

I am going to spend the rest of my life trying to destroy him! I hate people with any prejudices against any people or person. Its just not logical.

[Common Man]

Savage is a bit over the edge, but he says alot of things others are afraid to say.

[pfflam]

Originally posted by Common Man
Savage is a bit over the edge, but he says alot of things others are afraid to say. Exactly what my innitial thread asked . . . is he stating one thing that binds the NeoCon right together but what the NeoCon Right won't state explicitly?

I am not sure, but whenever I overhear Right-wingers at the Gym (and strangely enough it always seems to be the guys with a limited education) blathering on about racial profiling, it is very evident, yet unspoken, that they ARE being racist, they are congratulating themselves for being able to say it outloud in public . . . and not merely with the issue of Arab men and security . . . that is merely the pretext which allows them to be vocal about race in a way that they have always wanted to be (it seems to me) . . . its like the shock-jock radio show in Mnpls that I heard recently where they ranted on and on against Taxi drivers . . . who are, of course, predominantly from ME countries . . . they were being OUTRIGHT racist . . I mean outright: but it seemed to have the tacit approval of an unspoken political position, which is the same as saying that 'white male hetero Americans can now slander dark-skinned people, it is even patriotic'

[Common Man]

Savage blurts out the things that people are afraid to say in this pc society. Most do not have views as extreme as he claims to have, but excessiveness is often comforting to the deprived. Many would like to say that they think the US should make english the national, legal language, but don't want to take the abuse making such a statement brings. Many think ,marriage should be between a man and a woman, but don;t say it because they don't want to be labeled as homophobic. The list goes on. Savage makes these statements in a blatant "I said it and FU if you don't like it " tone. This satisfies a lot of people's craving to hear their inner feelings verbalized.

[pfflam]

Originally posted by Common Man
Savage blurts out the things that people are afraid to say in this pc society. Most do not have views as extreme as he claims to have, but excessiveness is often comforting to the deprived. Many would like to say that they think the US should make english the national, legal language, but don't want to take the abuse making such a statement brings. Many think ,marriage should be between a man and a woman, but don;t say it because they don't want to be labeled as homophobic. The list goes on. Savage makes these statements in a blatant "I said it and FU if you don't like it " tone. This satisfies a lot of people's craving to hear their inner feelings verbalized. PC = racism is not acceptable - nothing wrong with that.

Excessiveness is comforting for those deprived of the freedom to harbor thoroughly hateful views . . . it feels good to be allowed, by the tacit approval of media, to HATE again: that was a major appeal of Fascism in the 30s.

Many people have deep hidden 'cravings' to kill what they don't understand, because they don't understand it, but according to you that is good!! that there is a spokesman who takes the burden of the hidden hatred off of the 'Common Man's' shoulders . . .

BTW: it is perfect that you don't deny it, the thing is is that yo don't know how truly ugly it is -how dragging-someone-on-the-back-of-a-pick-up-truck-UGLY it really is . . . and that is because it is now becoming increasingly 'ok' to not only harbor ideas like that but ok to express them: hell, its the deviding line between the parties according to Savage!

[Common Man]

Wanting english as the legal US language and being against changing our culture to legalize gay marriage is a long way from dragging a man behind a pickup truck. Please! Talk about excessive! Your exaggeration is excessive. Neither Savage nor I would ever condone dragging a man behind a pickup in thought,word, or deed.

[dmz]

Let me get this straight......Howard Stern is the pinnacle of freedom but Michael Savage needs to be euthanatized?


Gotcha


What you guys are ignoring is that most of you posting here are amoral---you make up your morality based on prevailing pop "science" or cultural pressures. If a truly moral person came to you an told you the truth about yourself you would hate him just as much as you guys hate Michael Savage.

(Savage is over-the-top on some things but is very close to the truth in others.)

from Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in America:
I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America. In any constitutional state in Europe every sort of religious and political theory may be freely preached and disseminated................

In America the majority raises formidable barriers around the liberty of opinion; within these barriers an author may write what he pleases, but woe to him if he goes beyond them. Not that he is in danger of an auto-da-f‚, but he is exposed to continued obloquy and persecution. His political career is closed forever, since he has offended the only authority that is able to open it. Every sort of compensation, even that of celebrity, is refused to him. Before making public his opinions he thought he had sympathizers; now it seems to him that he has none any more since he has revealed himself to everyone; then those who blame him criticize loudly and those who think as he does keep quiet and move away without courage. He yields at length, overcome by the daily effort which he has to make, and subsides into silence, as if he felt remorse for having spoken the truth.


Good work my fellow Americans, we must silence all who do not agree with us!

[FormerLurker]

Originally posted by dmz
]Let me get this straight......Howard Stern is the pinnacle of freedom but Michael Savage needs to be euthanatized?

Gotcha
Who the heck mentioned Howard Stern? This is a topic about the hatefulness and racism of Savage. If you wish to counteract with some examples from a non-political entertainment program, I'm sure that many would find that to be an apples/oranges comparison, but how can you just bring up Stern without citing examples? reminds me of the way most criticism of Bush is answered by most reactionaries with logic such as "oh yeah? Well, CLINTON was.... [bla bla bla]."

Originally posted by dmz
(Savage is over-the-top on some things but is very close to the truth in others.) Interesting assessment. I'd enjoy hearing your viewpoint on what specific areas he's over-the-top, and what areas specifically he's very close to the truth in.

Lastly - aren't you afraid of being called cowardly, effeminate, smelly, and un-American, for quoting a FRENCHMAN?

[pfflam]

Originally posted by Common Man
Wanting english as the legal US language and being against changing our culture to legalize gay marriage is a long way from dragging a man behind a pickup truck. Please! Talk about excessive! Your exaggeration is excessive. Neither Savage nor I would ever condone dragging a man behind a pickup in thought,word, or deed. None of those issues were brought up by anybody but you . . . and they were brought up in the context of your finding something palatable that Savage would say that you would agree with AS WELL as the racist stuff which you, by implication, and lack of disavowal, also find to be truthful.

And as for DMZ . . . gimme a break . .. You imagine that you have some sort of moral high ground because . . . well . . . because why? let me guess . . . you go to church: tired of arrogant church goers who think that morality needs them to exist.

oh, and this is good, we get our morals from 'science' which naturally is wrong . . . we all know how bankrupt science is!! :\

and then the pompous speil about 'silencing those who do not agree' . . :lol: :lol: :rolleyes: :no:

Stern is hardly saying how his party is the White-Man's party . . . Savage is.

[rampancy]

Originally posted by FormerLurker
Lastly - aren't you afraid of being called cowardly, effeminate, smelly, and un-American, for quoting a FRENCHMAN?

Heck, I wonder what DMZ'd say if he were told that Oscar Wilde was "gay, gay, gay (http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/authors/oscar-wilde/)".

[FormerLurker]

Originally posted by rampancy
Heck, I wonder what DMZ'd say if he were told that Oscar Wilde was "gay, gay, gay (http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/authors/oscar-wilde/)". Maybe he'd just add the words "flaming homosexual" to the last line of his sig.

Disclaimer: no, I'm not being un-PC here (as Seinfeld would say, "not that there's anything wrong with that") - the above quote is from rampancy's link.
Oscar O'Flahertie Fingal Wills-Wilde was not English, but Irish. He was best known as a flaming homosexual who wrote plays and had a bit of a sass-mouth.

[dmz]

Originally posted by rampancy
Heck, I wonder what DMZ'd say if he were told that Oscar Wilde was "gay, gay, gay (http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/authors/oscar-wilde/)".


Sorry, saw Velvet Goldmine in '99.

[dmz]

Originally posted by FormerLurker
Who the heck mentioned Howard Stern?


Main Entry: sub·text
Pronunciation: sb+
Function: noun
Etymology: sub- + 1text; probably translation of Russian podtekst
: the implicit or metaphorical meaning (as of a literary text) ; broadly : an underlying or covert message, theme, or idea
- sub·textual \()sb+ \ adjective
- sub·textually \"+ \ adverb

Citation format for this entry:

"subtext." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (4 Aug. 2004).

[dmz]

Originally posted by pfflam
... You imagine that you have some sort of moral high ground because . . . well . . . because why? let me guess . . . you go to church: tired of arrogant church goers who think that morality needs them to exist.

oh, and this is good, we get our morals from 'science' which naturally is wrong . . . we all know how bankrupt science is!! :\

and then the pompous speil about 'silencing those who do not agree' . . :lol: :lol: :rolleyes: :no:

Stern is hardly saying how his party is the White-Man's party . . . Savage is.


tsk, tsk pfflam, you are definetly DOING IT agian.

.......no arrogance there---As for going to church, that's a kinda screwball, wag-the-dog, definition of a Christian. Christians realize at some point they are fucked up morally, and turn to Christ. Then wanting to hang out with other Christians comes, well, naturally.

As for you naughty response, I think it bemoans your underlying amoral approach to life---the whole "I am my own" bit. You have a core set a values (like any Christian does), and when Savage goes off on the homos as sex perverts, that's more than you want to hear.

Since the news media is something of a junta, I thought the DeTocqueville rang particularly true.

What blows me away are the number of relativists/positivists like yourself that INSIST on making absolute judgements about morality. By your own standards we are all free to make any choices we wish based on our preceptions---but you want only some those outcomes.

As for Stern, he's much more popular, and, at least when I was listening to him in the mid '90s, ranted about "the blacks" to no end.
No.

[Common Man]

I didn't bring up dragging people behind trucks Pfflam, that was your work. I can't discuss with someone who insists in interpretting "what I really mean" rather than responding to what I say.

[giant]

Originally posted by dmz
Main Entry: sub·text
Pronunciation: sb+
Function: noun
Etymology: sub- + 1text; probably translation of Russian podtekst
: the implicit or metaphorical meaning (as of a literary text) ; broadly : an underlying or covert message, theme, or idea
- sub·textual \()sb+ \ adjective
- sub·textually \"+ \ adverb

Citation format for this entry:

"subtext." Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002. http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com (4 Aug. 2004).
hal·lu·ci·na·tion Audio pronunciation of "hallucination" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (h-ls-nshn)
n.

1.
1. Perception of visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory experiences without an external stimulus and with a compelling sense of their reality, usually resulting from a mental disorder or as a response to a drug.
2. The objects or events so perceived.
2. A false or mistaken idea; a delusion.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hallucination

[dmz]

giant, you are SUCH a funny guy ;)

[dmz]

Originally posted by rampancy
Heck, I wonder what DMZ'd say if he were told that Oscar Wilde was "gay, gay, gay (http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/authors/oscar-wilde/)".


One more thing, your comment on the Wilde thing got me thinking about Eric Gill, who designed Gill Sans, among a bunch of very cool fonts.

I started doing some research for a book design I was doing, checking out the font designers' backgrounds and found that Mr. Gill made Oscar Wilde look like Mother Theresa.

Even by pfflam's standards he was a MAJOR sex pervert. Sisters, Daughters, even a dog--I have trouble picking that typeface for my work anymore.


FYI

[SDW2001]

pfflam, you are way over the top here. You have put words on Common Man's mouth. Your statements and the implications they carry are unbelievable.



I am not sure, but whenever I overhear Right-wingers at the Gym (and strangely enough it always seems to be the guys with a limited education) blathering on about racial profiling, it is very evident, yet unspoken, that they ARE being racist, they are congratulating themselves for being able to say it outloud in public . . . and not merely with the issue of Arab men and security . . . that is merely the pretext which allows them to be vocal about race in a way that they have always wanted to be (it seems to me) . . . its like the shock-jock radio show in Mnpls that I heard recently where they ranted on and on against Taxi drivers . . . who are, of course, predominantly from ME countries . . . they were being OUTRIGHT racist . . I mean outright: but it seemed to have the tacit approval of an unspoken political position, which is the same as saying that 'white male hetero Americans can now slander dark-skinned people, it is even patriotic'

Wow. So, because conservatives have NOT embraced such statements, we therefore....embrace them? And further...all conservatives are "right wingers"? Oooh...and the best one: The implication that such conservatives don't have an education is practically screaming in your post.

As far as racial profiling, I again find it interesting that all of the comments you heard were interpreted and prsented here through the pfflam filter. Profiling is a legitimately debated topic in this country, and it's not clear cut. There are types of profiling that are needed and reasonable. Why shouldn't we pay a little more attention to ME men in airports? Then again, pulling over a black man on the NJ turnpike just because he's black...that I have a
problem with. You can't just dismiss the tactic of profiling as some crazy, racist right wing idea. It's complicated. You seem to be good at "complicated", so I wonder why you refuse to see both sides of this issue.

If you want to trash Savage, more power to you. Don't try and paint him as "the conservative spokeman".

[giant]

Originally posted by SDW2001
Why shouldn't we pay a little more attention to ME men in airports?
Because non-racists (and you can ask one to verify) recognize that it's not effective.

As Bush's trans sec explained:
In 1986, a 32-year-old Irish woman, pregnant at the time, was about to board an El Al flight from London to Tel Aviv when El Al security agents discovered an explosive device hidden in the false bottom of her bag. The woman’s boyfriend – the father of her unborn child – had hidden the bomb.

In 1987, a 70-year-old man and a 25-year-old woman – neither of whom were Middle Eastern – posed as father and daughter and brought a bomb aboard a Korean Air flight from Baghdad to Thailand. En route to Bangkok, the bomb exploded, killing all on board.

In 1999, men dressed as businessmen (and one dressed as a Catholic priest) turned out to be terrorist hijackers, who forced an Avianca flight to divert to an airstrip in Colombia, where some passengers were held as hostages for more than a year-and-half.

Time permits me to cite only these few examples; there are many more.

So, how do we stop the terrorist – say one recruited from Chechnya – who is disguised as a priest if we are wasting our time on an unworkable profile of thousands of travelers who look a certain way?

There is no universal racial, age or gender profile for terrorism -- and we cannot pretend that there is.

... Some advocates of racial profiling have also focused their attention on what they consider unnecessary searches of people who appear to be innocent -- elderly women, pregnant women, people traveling with children, priests, or even politicians.

Why subject a gray-haired grandmother to extra security screening? Because terrorists do not always look like today’s prevailing stereotype. And, because one does not have to look like a stereotypical terrorist to be used by terrorists.
http://www.dot.gov/affairs/042002sp.htm

[giant]

Originally posted by dmz
giant, you are SUCH a funny guy ;)
Well, apparently I'm going to hell so I might as well have fun while I can. :)