So how is that democracy thing going?

[Anders]

I would have posted this at a much later time but it just itch in my fingers...

So how do you think the election is going? Judged by what I can follow at Washington Journal, here and most here is the top ten issues dealt with in the election:


Kerrys time in Vietnam.
Bush time in the national guard.
Polls in themselves, not what they show.
Voting machines.
Naders participation in the election.
Oh sorry. I ran out...

Everything else is drowned by the parties and their followers. What do Kerry/Bush want to do if he won the election? You really don´t know because instead of promoting their own ideas it scores many more point to attack you opponent and not open up for counter attacks

Look at the archived Washington Journal. None of the callers have a positive message, only attacks against those they don´t agree with and the same pattern here (and no noone is better than the other, Some are just playing the game better than others). The room for open political discussion is non exsisting at the national level as it is now. And without that there can be no democracy!

Those familiar with the prisoners dilemma should be able to recognise the pattern by now, what works at microlevel hurts on the macrolevel. The process by which you elect your president has proven to be ineffective to promote any ideal of democracy because what benefits the single candidate goes against the interest of democracy at whole.

US is unfit to be a model for democracy in any other country!

[durin oakenskin]

Yesterday I was thinking about starting a thread about the same... If I had to vote a new Government, there are a few things I would take into account:

- How did the candidate perform in office?
- What are the plans of the candidate? Do they match with my political understanding?

That leads to the most obvious questions: Am I represented by the Government I choose?

In my opinion, all the stuff discussed does not matter in this vote.

If I answer those questions, there can only be one outcome: Bush has to go.

Unfortunately, I'm not able to vote on this subject.

[Towel]

To be fair, several of those "non-issues" go to the heart of the democratic process. Voting machines, polls, and media coverage are part of the broader issue of whether the electorate is being unfairly or illegally manipulated by certain vested interests. And whether the vote counting itself will be tampered with. Issues don't matter a whit if your vote isn't counted.

[jwri004]

Policies? Who needs policies? :(

[ColanderOfDeath]

There's no real political discussion because 24% of the country is already voting for Kerry because they hate Bush, 25% of the country is voting for Bush because they just love him and 50% of the country doesn't give a fuck.

[Gilsch]

Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
There's no real political discussion because 24% of the country is already voting for Kerry because they hate Bush, 25% of the country is voting for Bush because they just love him and 50% of the country doesn't give a fuck. That's where you have it wrong. I'm an ex-Rep voting for Kerry because I love my country, not because I hate Bush. By the way, where's the missing 1%? :D

Let's break down that 25% percent voting for Bush because it's not just a matter of just loving him. Almost half of Bush's base (going by election 2000 numbers) consists of conservative Christians led by religious fal$se prophet whacko$ like Jimmy kill gays and then tell God they died (mms://www.freedomstream.net/jsm/jsm_091204.wmv) Swaggart, Falwell, Robertson via network$ like $end money and $ee riche$ (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-tbn20sep20,1,2147613.story?coll=la-headlines-california) TBN. You know, the base that gets mailings from the Republicans that scare them into voting Republican because those liberal demons will" ban the Bible" if they win. The base that hates "liberals".

So yeah. If the US were a corporation- the irony of that statement- and we judged our current leaders on their performance....we would have no choice but to fire the current ones outright...immediately and no questions asked.

"We" prefer to overlook past policies and performance and just back our "team" at all costs and no matter what as these boards prove quite unequivocally.

[jwri004]

Originally posted by Gilsch
That's where you have it wrong. I'm an ex-Rep voting for Kerry because I love my country, not because I hate Bush. By the way, where's the missing 1%? :D

Let's break down that 25% percent voting for Bush because it's not just a matter of just loving him. Almost half of Bush's base (going by election 2000 numbers) consists of conservative Christians led by religious fal$se prophet whacko$ like Jimmy kill gays and then tell God they died (mms://www.freedomstream.net/jsm/jsm_091204.wmv) Swaggart, Falwell, Robertson via network$ like $end money and $ee riche$ (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-tbn20sep20,1,2147613.story?coll=la-headlines-california) TBN. You know, the base that gets mailings from the Republicans that scare them into voting Republican because those liberal demons will" ban the Bible" if they win. The base that hates "liberals".

So yeah. If the US were a corporation- the irony of that statement- and we judged our current leaders on their performance....we would have no choice but to fire the current ones outright...immediately and no questions asked.

"We" prefer to overlook past policies and performance and just back our "team" at all costs and no matter what as these boards prove quite unequivocally.

We need a :thumbsup: emoticon. The concept of voting for this moran because of patriotism to me is boogling. He got you into this unnecessary "war" and now the people are clammering to re-elect him???

:???: to say the least

[bunge]

Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
There's no real political discussion because...50% of the country doesn't give a fuck.

Well who gives a fuck about them? They just come along for the ride while the rest of us do give a fuck. It doesn't hurt the process in the least, not for the ~50% that do vote.

[Anders]

Originally posted by bunge
Well who gives a fuck about them? They just come along for the ride while the rest of us do give a fuck. It doesn't hurt the process in the least, not for the ~50% that do vote.

Thats a point of view that would be considered indemocratic in itself. Not because we should force people to vote but the mere fact that people aren´t interested in voting shows a deep crisis.

[kraig911]

I think its going well :)

I think the mass media for the most part does nothing but try and blast the other candidate on its past. Right now I'm leaning towards Bush, but I do like Kerry's plan for healthcare reform. However I do want them in Iraq and for them to finish the war right. Me personally knowing people in and from Iraq in my neighborhood I see nothing but smiles and they are so happy for their families even tho there's much concern with terrorism.

Basically the problem is with american democracy at the moment is it isn't politicians becoming presidents but businessmen or people with close ties to businessmen.

Basically I wish John McCain or Al Gore was running... :(

[bunge]

Originally posted by Anders
Thats a point of view that would be considered indemocratic in itself. Not because we should force people to vote but the mere fact that people aren´t interested in voting shows a deep crisis.

Nah, there's an easy fix. Get up and go vote. It's laziness and a lack of concern that's causing the problem. If I had to choose between, let's say, Bush or Rush Limbaugh I'd still vote but I'd vote for Donald Duck or some such creature.

If the 50% that wasn't voting all voted for a cartoon character it would prove to me that they cared whereas now I know they don't. Some say they care and still don't vote, but there's always a better option than not voting. Write in Nader if you feel it's that important, but staying at home means you want someone else to make decisions for you. Fine.

[Hassan i Sabbah]

How's that democracy thing going?

Down in Florida, pretty shabby. (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=566037) I don't live in America, I'm not a fan of Kerry (although I fervently hope he wins nonetheless), but it's clear that the Republican party don't give a witch's tit about democracy.

George Bush is going to win because his party is prepared to do anything to win.

What a frigging disgrace.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
How's that democracy thing going?

Down in Florida, pretty shabby. (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=566037) I don't live in America, I'm not a fan of Kerry (although I fervently hope he wins nonetheless), but it's clear that the Republican party don't give a witch's tit about democracy.

George Bush is going to win because his party is prepared to do anything to win.

What a frigging disgrace.

Boy it's almost like they gave cigarettes to homeless people to vote a certain way or even lied to a judge to illegally keep poll open.

[Hassan i Sabbah]

Originally posted by Scott
Boy it's almost like they gave cigarettes to homeless people to vote a certain way or even lied to a judge to illegally keep poll open.
No, it's more like they make false and very public claims against prominent opponents to the President that they can't back up.

Like the article says. I know it was long but it behooves you to actually follow links and read them if you're going to participate in a thread by responding 'I know I am but what are you?' as a defence of American democracy.

My point is that it's a disgrace no matter who does it.