Yusuf Islam [Archive] - AppleInsider

tonton

09-22-2004, 07:10 AM

Read everything about him.

He was one of the most important figures in Islam to condemn the 9/11 attacks.

He's one of the world's most active children's and peace charity advocates.

He most recently condemned the terrorist actions in Russia.

And this is the kind of man the US denies entry to.

Mourning has officially broken for the rights of Muslims in America.

The events of 11 September were the fruit of 'blind irreligious hatred': Yusuf Islam, formerly the singer Cat Stevens, explains why the attacks had nothing to do with Muslim beliefs.

Unfortunately, the US government sees things differently. If you're a Muslim, evidently that automatically makes you a threat.

crazychester

09-22-2004, 08:13 AM

If I was in the States, I'd get a PA and stand outside the White House and sing the entire Cat Stevens song catalogue to George.

Oh hell, I think I'll do it anyway.

Longer boats are coming to win us
They're coming to win us, they're coming to win us
Longer boats are coming to win us
Hold on to the shore, oooooooor they'll be taking the key from the door. <bah de dum dum, bah de dum dum>

Where do the children plaaaaaa.......aaaaay....

Miles from nowhere
Guess I'll take my time
Oh yeah, to reach there

I'm lookin' for a hard headed woman (headed woman)

And in there lay the fairest little baby crying to be fed,
I got down on my knees and kissed the moon and star on his head. <Islamic Fundamentalist! Dead giveaway!!!!>

Sitting on my own not by myself, everybody's here with me......

I listen to the wind to the wind of my soul.
Where I'll end up well I think only god really knows....

<Do you want more? No worries!>

How can I tell you that I lo-u-u-u-a-ove you, I lo-u-u-u-a-ove you
But I can't think of right words to say.

And if I ever lose my eyes, if my colours all run dry
Yes if I ever lose my eyes.....I won't have to cry no more.

It's not time to make a change, just sit down take it easy <Anybody wanna do the second part with me - woah! don't all rush me at once>

Banapple gas, oh banapple gas
Everybody's sniffing it banapple gas
O-o alas!
All the world is stuck on it banapple gas.

Bring tea for the tillerman
Steak for the sun
Wine for the women who made the rain come
Seagulls sing your hearts away
'cause while the sinners sin, the children play
Oh lord how they play and play
For that happy day, for that haaaa-ppy day

<This one's for you tonton!>
Morning has broken like the first mor-or-or-ning
Blackbird has spoken, like the first bird <I can play this one on piano too!>
Praise for the singing <I don't hit that top note too well>, praise for the mor-or-or-or-ning
Praise for them springing fresh from the world

<All together now! (sway with your arms above your head)>
The first cut is the deepest
Baby I know
The first cut is the deepest.....

Cause out on the edge of darkness there rides a peace tra-ain.

Or not.

Yes folks. I know the words to every Cat Stevens song. OK not every single one. But a helluva a lot of them.

pfflam

09-22-2004, 11:14 AM

Seems that 'trouble' would be the most appropriate tune these days . . . whadda ya say: . . give it a go:

um . . . I was gonna let you wing it but I just went ahead and googled it . . . I couldn't wait . . . all I could remember was "trouuble . . .oh trouble get awayyy"

anyway:Trouble
Oh trouble set me free
I have seen your face
And it's too much too much for me

Trouble
Oh trouble can't you see
You're eating my heart away
And there's nothing much left of me

I've drunk your wine
You have made your world mine
So won't you be fair
So won't you be fair

I don't want no more of you
So won't you be kind to me
Just let me go where
I'll have to go there

Trouble
Oh trouble move away
I have seen your face
and it's too much for me today

Trouble
Oh trouble can't you see
You have made me a wreck
Now won't you leave me in my misery

I've seen your eyes
and I can see death's disguise
Hangin' on me
Hangin' on me

I'm beat, I'm torn
Shattered and tossed and worn
Too shocking to see
Too shocking to see

Trouble
Oh trouble move from me
I have paid my debt
Now won't you leave me in my misery

Trouble
Oh trouble please be kind
I don't want no fight
And I haven't got a lot of time

sammi jo

09-22-2004, 02:02 PM

Yusuf Islam, well well.

Now, the headlines scream: "airplane diverted because of terror scare: singer deported because he is on a TSA government watch list".

The damage has being done: Yusuf Islam is now a terrorist suspect, allied to Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. That is how a significantly large percentage of Americans will see it, namely the majority who cant read beyond the headlines and the sports pages, either because they havent the time, or aren't interested in those pesky details, and those who equate anyone with a Muslim or Arabic name to automatically be a terrorist. Which are probably most people who get their current affairs from Fox News and hate radio.

Yusuf Islam, the latest evil to threaten us. His second name is enough to warrant suspicion... "Islam" ehhh? I can already hear some people I know in Alabama saying "....why didn't they get him before he got on a plane....yugga yugga yugga?

Chalk up another win for this current administration and those likeminded folk who want to turn the world into a prison planet for those who don't follow the permitted doctrines.

Yusuf Islam is a peace activist. According to this administration's well practised doublespeak, PEACE = NATIONAL SECURITY RISK What do they mean by that?

After the Sept. 11 attacks, Yusuf Islam issued this statement:

"No right thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action: The Quran equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity." .

Yusuf Islam is 100% correct. The people who planned, financed and committed the 9-11 attacks were NOT followers of Islam.

midwinter

09-22-2004, 02:09 PM

Peace train take this country, come take me home again.

madmax559

09-22-2004, 02:09 PM

amusingly as i was driving in to work today
i had 94.1 on, a local san diego station

as soon as the girl dj announced
have you ever heard of yusuf islam
the guy dj piped up

"no but he sounds dangerous"

DOH!!!!

are my fellow countrymen THAT stupid or ignorant ?

i fear for our future

tonton

09-22-2004, 02:11 PM

"Gotta show the world.
World's gotta see.
See all the love.
Love that's in me.

Why walk alone?
Why worry when it's warm over here?
You've got so much to say.
Say what you mean.
Mean what you're thinking and think anything.
Why not?"

I quoted that in my senior yearbook.

sammi jo

09-22-2004, 02:30 PM

Shortly after 9-11 someone put up the website, now defunct if you try to go there www.terroristornot.com , one of the series where people enter a name and a picture and score them on a scale 1-10. Needless to say Osama bin Laden was there, scoring as expected, a 10. Tim McVeigh was also there, scoring an 8.5 or similar, as well as hundreds of other figures, some terrorists, some not, and others just there for a joke, like somebody's pet German Shepherd dog.

The image of Abu al Khwarizmi was there also, and he was being rated between 9 and 10 alongside the most notorious killers. But Al Khwarizmi was the famous Arabic mathematician and astronomer.

Yep...if he's got an Arabic name, then he's gonna kill your children.

Yugga yugga yugga.

shetline

09-22-2004, 02:59 PM

If Cat Stevens has become a Congregationalist instead of a Muslim would he have changed his name to something like "Herbert Congregationalism"?

I don't mean to minimize the offensiveness of the way Mr. Islam was treated with his flight being diverted -- that was both stupid and wrong -- but damn, Cat Stevens changing his name to "Yusef Islam" has always struck me as a really dorky thing to do, not because he should have had to worry about prejudice again Muslims, but because it's just such a geeky fanboy way to express one's new-found faith.

Hassan i Sabbah

09-22-2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by shetline
If Cat Stevens has become a Congregationalist instead of a Muslim would he have changed his name to something like "Herbert Congregationalism"?

I don't mean to minimize the offensiveness of the way Mr. Islam was treated with his flight being diverted -- that was both stupid and wrong -- but damn, Cat Stevens changing his name to "Yusef Islam" has always struck me as a really dorky thing to do, not because he should have had to worry about prejudice again Muslims, but because it's just such a geeky fanboy way to express one's new-found faith.
I dunno. 'Islam' is quite a common surname, so... hey. But I don't know why Muslim converts feel the need to change their names, especially if they're not Arabic-speakers originally, but hey ho.

Nice beard, anyway.

Oh yes. Anyway. Is no-one on this board going to defend what happened? This thread is just a bunch of us with our heads in our hands going 'Oh no, this isn't what America was supposed to turn into.'

Where are all the American patriots? Even constructive solutions suggested would be something.

dmz

09-22-2004, 04:16 PM

I think the the last time Yusuf Islam made the news:

Yusuf Islam Issues A Formal Statement On The Rushdie Affair

By Yusuf Islam March 2nd, 1989

Under Islamic Law, the ruling regarding blasphemy is quite clear; the person found guilty of it must be put to death. Only under certain circumstances can repentance be accepted.
On 21st February, I was speaking to a group of students at the Kingston Polytechnic, and in response to a question, I simply stated the Islamic ruling on the Rushdie affair. Suddenly. my picture was splashed on the front page of newspapers all over the world next to the headline: 'Kill Rushdie says Cat Stevens (Bio)'. It is very sad to see such irresponsibility from the 'free press' and I am totally abhorred.

My only crime was, I suppose, in being honest. I stood up and expressed my belief and I am in no way apologizing for it. I expressed the Islamic view based on the Qur'an, the Prophet's sayings (peace and blessings be upon him) and the rulings of the Caliphs and renowned schools of Islamic jurisprudence.

Somebody keep me honest on this, but that is where he stands on this issue. http://www.catstevens.com

Hassan i Sabbah

09-22-2004, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by dmz
I think the the last time Yusuf Islam made the news:

Somebody keep me honest on this, but that is where he stands on this issue. http://www.catstevens.com
dmz, are you suggesting that it was right for Yusef Islam to be refused entry to the US with your post?

Let's keep this civil. :)

midwinter

09-22-2004, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by dmz
I think the the last time Yusuf Islam made the news:

Somebody keep me honest on this, but that is where he stands on this issue. http://www.catstevens.com

Does he say that he condoned it? Looks to me like he simply said "This is what the Islamist position on Rushdie is" and then got slammed by the Salman Rushdie Veterans For Fatwah as saying he would kill Rushdie if he bumped into him at the Safeway.

sammi jo

09-22-2004, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by dmz
I think the the last time Yusuf Islam made the news:
...
somebody keep me honest on this, but that is where he stands on this issue. http://www.catstevens.com

Yusuf was quoting Islamic scripture. IMHO I absolutely disagree with this aspect 100%: I believe it's medieval and barbaric for human beings to kill others in cold blood for any reason, but this is not the issue. This is all to do with the psychological mass branding of Muslims as "terrorists" or "national security risks" by the US media and government, part of the promotion of the "bogeyman-thats-going-to-get-us" concept which evaporated when the Soviet Union collapsed.

And just like in the 1950s, we're swallowing the bait and reeling us in.

:sad:

dmz

09-22-2004, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
dmz, are you suggesting that it was right for Yusef Islam to be refused entry to the US with your post?

Let's keep this civil. :)

I think it needs to be considered. I hadn't heard it brought into the discussion and thought it should be.

Look, if Pat Buchanan, or Micheal Medved espoused the stoning of gays on principle, they would be finished in American public life---and I'm talking 'Jimmy the Greek finished'.

(and brought up on charges in Canada)

Will open-minded Canada allow Mr. Islam to give a homily on the positve aspects of Islamic law? Not if it crosses the "gay" line.

I'm not sure why I even commented on this thread, as this will, within a few posts turn into a direct condemnation of the Bush administration as racists. There is too much hatred of the current administration to even have rational conversations on these boards. I just tried kicking some ideas around on an Iraq forum, and before I could say 'ritalin', I had two gen-y pups humping my leg. These forums could be SO MUCH more than they are---we could razz each other but still maintain some constructive content. Maybe not.

To hell with this.

Hassan i Sabbah

09-22-2004, 05:54 PM

That's all very well, but a man who is not a terrorist threat—a prominent Muslim who has publicly condemned Islamic terrorism—has been refused admittance to your country as a potential danger to its citizens.

Do you believe that this is right?

So far this is a pretty civil thread; let's try and keep it like that.

Fellowship

09-22-2004, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
That's all very well, but a man who is not a terrorist threat—a prominent Muslim who has publicly condemned Islamic terrorism—has been refused admittance to your country as a potential danger to its citizens.

Do you believe that this is right?

So far this is a pretty civil thread; let's try and keep it like that.

If he was refused simply because his name sounds Muslim this is more than sad. If the government has some kind of a case on the guy then I believe it should be the burden of the government to state their case to the public promptly.

Fellowship

sammi jo

09-22-2004, 07:53 PM

crazychester

09-22-2004, 08:34 PM

To set the record straight.

So…back in February 1989 I was delivering a talk about my journey to Islam at Kingston University in London, when somebody (probably a disguised journalist) mischievously posed a question about Islam’s view on apostates and blasphemers. As a student who had studied the issue for the first time, I simply did my best by answering direct from legal texts which I had read.

Instead of reporting my response in context, which I naively expected, suddenly the headline in next day’s paper read “Cat Says Kill Rushdie!” Well, needless to say, all hell then broke loose and my political education had really begun. Thank God the newspaper responsible, Today, has since folded and is now out of circulation; unfortunately the monstrous myth it created still survives.

What I actually tried to do at the lecture in Kingston, and subsequently during other interviews, was to quote ‘from the book’ what Islam says about the legal consequences for someone who commits blasphemy within the context of Islamic law where it is adopted and applied, I never ever sanctioned people taking the law in their own hands or overstepping the laws of the Britain which is what the Fatwa of Ayatollah Khomeini proposed. The truth is I never once stated support for the ‘Fatwa’

Stop the bullshit and lies and ignorant crap NOW! (http://catstevens.com/articles/00236/index.html)
Sorry but I'm so sick of the USA's crap. The rest of us should start treating the US government like the international pariah it is.

talksense101

09-23-2004, 12:03 AM

Originally posted by crazychester
To set the record straight.

Stop the bullshit and lies and ignorant crap NOW! (http://catstevens.com/articles/00236/index.html)
Sorry but I'm so sick of the USA's crap. The rest of us should start treating the US government like the international pariah it is.

DMZ,
That pretty much answers your post. People really to read the news fully instead of browsing headlines. If you had taken the time to read Yusuf's website properly, you would have found the answer to your question. Rational discussion cannot take place if you are ignorant and biased. You accuse people of being biased against GWB. So do you mind telling us what facts you know that would help us think otherwise? The positive and negative aspects of GWB have been discussed in detail on this board and the negatives are much more than the positives.

Hassan i Sabbah

09-23-2004, 04:19 AM

dmz, would you comment on Crazychester's post that quotes YusefIslam in full? And would you say whether or not you agree that it was right that he should be denied entry to the US?

shetline

09-23-2004, 10:45 AM

There's nothing I see in what Yusuf Islam has said which warrants treating him as a terrorist risk or even a terrorist sympathizer.

That said, I also have to say I find his opposition to the Fatwa against Salman Rushdie legalistic and lukewarm at best. He says that Muslims shouldn't go around taking the law into their own hands...
"Under Islamic Law, Muslims are bound to keep with in the limits of the law of the country in which they live, providing that it does not restrict the freedom to worship and serve God and fulfill their basic religious duties."
But Mr. Islam also expresses outrage at the blasphemy he perceives in the pages of The Satanic Verses, saying that he thinks the book should be banned, and that Muslims should work hard to changes laws so that such books could be banned.

So I can't that say I'm impressed by Mr. Islam's lack of support for the value of free speech, and he certainly leaves open the possibility that he'd happily see Rushdie executed were Rushdie to enter a country where Islamic law prevails.

None of this, however, makes Yusuf Islam any more dangerous than some of our own good ol' American Christian Fundamentalists who would happily see the end of separation of church and state, have biblical law rule the land, and have public stonings of adulterers and gays at the County Fairground. We let these people board planes all the time. We even let them fly the planes.

Fellowship

09-23-2004, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by shetline
There's nothing I see in what Yusuf Islam has said which warrants treating him as a terrorist risk or even a terrorist sympathizer.

That said, I also have to say I find his opposition to the Fatwa against Salman Rushdie legalistic and lukewarm at best. He says that Muslims shouldn't go around taking the law into their own hands...

But Mr. Islam also expresses outrage at the blasphemy he perceives in the pages of The Satanic Verses, saying that he thinks the book should be banned, and that Muslims should work hard to changes laws so that such books could be banned.

So I can't that say I'm impressed by Mr. Islam's lack of support for the value of free speech, and he certainly leaves open the possibility that he'd happily see Rushdie executed were Rushdie to enter a country where Islamic law prevails.

None of this, however, makes Yusuf Islam any more dangerous than some of our own good ol' American Christian Fundamentalists who would happily see the end of separation of church and state, have biblical law rule the land, and have public stonings of adulterers and gays at the County Fairground. We let these people board planes all the time. We even let them fly the planes.

So I can't that say I'm impressed by Mr. Islam's lack of support for the value of free speech

Free Speech. You hit it.

Your description of "Christians" above I take issue with.

I am a Christian and I support the separation of Church and state for good reason.

I am a Christian and I do not hate Gays. I have never stoned an adulterer or gay person at the county fairground.

Fellowship

shetline

09-23-2004, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Fellowship
I am a Christian and I do not hate Gays. I have never stoned an adulterer or gay person at the county fairground.
Please note that I did say some of our own good ol' American Christian Fundamentalists, not all. You've got to admit that there are Christian extremists out there.

My point is that we put up with extremist viewpoints all of the time, letting people with such viewpoints live and travel freely without interference, so long as they don't show any inclination to act violently to promote their extremist positions.

Fellowship

09-23-2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by shetline
Please note that I did say some of our own good ol' American Christian Fundamentalists, not all. You've got to admit that there are Christian extremists out there.

My point is that we put up with extremist viewpoints all of the time, letting people with such viewpoints live and travel freely without interference, so long as they don't show any inclination to act violently to promote their extremist positions.

You make valid points indeed.

Fellows

crazychester

09-23-2004, 11:38 AM

Oh for cryin' out loud.

http://www.yusufislam.org.uk/
09/22/04
He has vehemently and consistently criticized terrorist acts and has always advocated peace through his songs and his extensive humanitarian relief work. He has travelled many times to the US, most recently two months ago on a visit with his record company. :rolleyes:

http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=101449
Cat Stevens: 'They have hijacked my religion'
The events of 11 September were the fruit of 'blind irreligious hatred': Yusuf Islam, formerly the singer Cat Stevens, explains why the attacks had nothing to do with Muslim beliefs

http://www.vh1.com/thewire/content/news/1448948.jhtml
I wish to express my heartfelt horror at the indiscriminate terrorist attacks committed against innocent people of the United States," Islam wrote on his official Web site.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5933040
09/17/01
"While it is still not clear who carried out the attack, it must be stated that no right thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action: The Qur'an equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity. We pray for the families of all those who lost their lives in this unthinkable act of violence as well as all those injured; I hope to reflect the feelings of all Muslims and people around the world whose sympathies go out to the victims of this sorrowful moment."............."The fact is I have always held strong humanitarian views; I always stood for the elimination of conflict and wars, and any of those causes that ignite them," Islam said last year. "It is part of my faith as a Muslim to try to help those who are suffering from poverty or economic or political injustice. It's very difficult to ignore humanitarian disasters. The royalties from my albums continue to support my charity work."

http://www.vh1.com/thewire/content/news/1449391.jhtml
Former Cat Stevens To Donate Some Box Set Royalties To September 11 Fund
_
Artist now known as Yusuf Islam to donate remainder of royalties to other charities.
_
Yusuf Islam — the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens — plans to donate a portion of the royalties from his upcoming box set to the September 11th Fund, with the rest going to orphans and homeless families in underdeveloped countries.

"I feel this is my duty," Islam said in a statement from his label. "I hope that this donation will bring some comfort."

http://entertainment.iafrica.com/news/230591.htm
Stars release CD for Iraqi children
Posted Tue, 22 Apr 2003

Some of the world’s top music stars have joined together to release a charity CD, the proceeds of which will go to the War Child charity, for the children of Iraq..........One of the most eagerly-awaited tracks is the first English-language music release by Yusuf Islam, or Cat Stevens, for 25 years. He recorded a new version of his 1971 hit 'Peace Train'.

What's fuck knuckle, I mean Bush done for the children of Iraq recently? Do at least try to keep your eye on the bouncing ball people. I'm going to bed. Hopefully when I wake up in the morning it'll turn out this thread was just a bad dream.

Edit: Correcting date 09/17/04 to 09/17/01. That's you bloody Americans fault too for making me write dates your stupid way so you understand it. ;)

Hassan i Sabbah

09-23-2004, 11:43 AM

Good morning crazychester!

Before you have your cornflakes I thought I'd just drop in to say 'what's up'!

bunge

09-23-2004, 12:12 PM

I can't believe France would do this! Oh wait, it was the United States?

Wrong Robot

09-23-2004, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by bunge
Oh wait, it was the United States?

Yea, I hear they hate our freedoms.

PBG4 Dude

09-23-2004, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by dmz
I think it needs to be considered. I hadn't heard it brought into the discussion and thought it should be.

Look, if Pat Buchanan, or Micheal Medved espoused the stoning of gays on principle, they would be finished in American public life---and I'm talking 'Jimmy the Greek finished'.

(and brought up on charges in Canada)

Will open-minded Canada allow Mr. Islam to give a homily on the positve aspects of Islamic law? Not if it crosses the "gay" line.

I'm not sure why I even commented on this thread, as this will, within a few posts turn into a direct condemnation of the Bush administration as racists. There is too much hatred of the current administration to even have rational conversations on these boards. I just tried kicking some ideas around on an Iraq forum, and before I could say 'ritalin', I had two gen-y pups humping my leg. These forums could be SO MUCH more than they are---we could razz each other but still maintain some constructive content. Maybe not.

To hell with this.

From http://www.newyorkslime.com/swaggert.html

Posted by Jimmy Swaggart
fundamentalist preacher Jimmy Swaggart promised to kill any gay man who looked at him the wrong way and then lie about it to god.
"If one of them ever looks at me like that I'll kill him and tell god he died."

Scott

09-23-2004, 03:15 PM

Is this the same guy that donates money to terrorist organizations?

audiopollution

09-23-2004, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by Scott
Is this the same guy that donates money to terrorist organizations?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Swaggart supports the Republicans financially.

midwinter

09-23-2004, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by audiopollution
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Swaggart supports the Republicans financially.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Fellowship

09-23-2004, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by PBG4 Dude
From http://www.newyorkslime.com/swaggert.html

swaggert is mess. Where does a person even start with him.

I can't believe there are people who would listen to him. That is the thing that is even more scary than him.

Fellowship

Scott

09-23-2004, 03:59 PM

I guess funding terrorists is a big joke?

midwinter

09-23-2004, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Scott
I guess funding terrorists is a big joke?

Of course it is. That's why you should stop.

PBG4 Dude

09-23-2004, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Fellowship
swaggert is mess. Where does a person even start with him.

I can't believe there are people who would listen to him. That is the thing that is even more scary than him.

Fellowship

Yea, I'm amazed he had a room full of cheering people when he made those comments. Very scary.

crazychester

09-23-2004, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Scott
Is this the same guy that donates money to terrorist organizations?

<Stretch. Yawn>

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!

Oh wait. It's only Scott. :lol:

Hassan i Sabbah

09-23-2004, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by Scott
Is this the same guy that donates money to terrorist organizations?
No, it's not. This is Yusef Islam, formerly Cat Stevens the folk singer, and he doesn't donate money to terrorist organisations. He speaks out out against terrorism, which he believes to be unIslamic, and he uses Qu'ranic law to back his arguments up, often very eloquently. I'd provide a link, but, um, I'd only be linking to THIS THREAD, so you can use the scroll bar on the right of this post to scroll up and read for yourself.

So, to answer your question, no, you must be thinking of someone else. (Someone who donates money to terrorist organisations?)

Anyway, that's Scott and dmz who think it was right that this man should have been denied entry to the United States, two sterling patriots putting their feet up and nodding while their country sells out all the principles that made it great.

Scott

09-23-2004, 07:40 PM

Yea the Cat Stevens guy. He donates money to terrorists.

bunge

09-23-2004, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by Scott
Yea the Cat Stevens guy. He donates money to terrorists.

"Civil, factually informed political discussion."

That's what PoliticalOutsider is supposed to be. If you can't support your claim with facts, then you're out of line.

Scott

09-23-2004, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by bunge
"Civil, factually informed political discussion."

That's what PoliticalOutsider is supposed to be. If you can't support your claim with facts, then you're out of line.

He donates money to Hamas (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5922705?rnd=1095862190805&has-player=true).

QED

crazychester

09-23-2004, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Scott
He donates money to Hamas (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5922705?rnd=1095862190805&has-player=true).

QED

The Israeli government claims.....
The Israeli government alleges.....

Who'd've thunk it?

Not exactly what I call facts.

Not wasting my time on this one. You're going to have to try harder. A lot, lot harder. About a gadzillion, trillion, billion, million times harder.

Let me me know when you're done.

bunge

09-23-2004, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by crazychester
Let me me know when you're done.

The problem is, he's already done.

Wrong Robot

09-23-2004, 08:56 PM

Fellowship

09-23-2004, 09:17 PM

Originally posted by Fellowship
If he was refused simply because his name sounds Muslim this is more than sad. If the government has some kind of a case on the guy then I believe it should be the burden of the government to state their case to the public promptly.

Fellowship

^
II
That is what I said about this at first.

"Either Attorney General John Ashcroft and Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge should make the evidence against Mr. Islam public and detail it sufficiently that all can see his sins in an objective light, or they should issue an official apology to the peace activist and explain how American laws got hijacked in such a cavalier manner." By Mansoor Ijaz

I came across Mansoor's piece today in the Christian Science Monitor and it is worth a read by all in this forum.

One way to alienate moderate Muslims: deport Cat (http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0924/p09s01-coop.html)

Read it and reflect over just what kind of country America is becoming. There does need to be a national discussion and it needs to be adults being serious and focused on the matter of Freedom and liberty.

Fellowship

FormerLurker

09-23-2004, 09:26 PM

Nice one, Fellowship. I found that article on my own earlier and popped in here to post the link.

crazychester

09-23-2004, 10:17 PM

You know, I was sitting here just now, listening to The Boy with a Moon and Star on His Head thinking how there's not enough whistling in songs these days and feeling depressed because the Evil President and his Wicked Cabal had yet again diverted intelligent, right thinking people away from the good fight and forced them to waste time and energy defending something that never needed defending.

And then it occurred to me that this incident will have brought Yusuf/Cat to many people's attention who had never heard of him before (the various sites have been struggling to handle the increased traffic) or who had forgotten him. And some of those people will listen to and buy his music as a result of it. He will make money and the causes he supports will get more money. The orphans, the homeless, the children of Iraq, the schools, the 911 survivors.

Glass half full methinks. And the wine is sweeeeeet.

la lala la la la lalala lalala la
la lala la la la lalala lalala la

sammi jo

09-24-2004, 12:28 AM

Read it and reflect over just what kind of country America is becoming. There does need to be a national discussion and it needs to be adults being serious and focused on the matter of Freedom and liberty.

Fellowship

Agreed. As mentioned earlier in the thread, its the way the relevant "anti-terror" (sic) laws have been framed: this Anti-American government has ceased all accountability.

And Scott:

As far as Israel is concerned, ALL Muslims are potential terrorists, whether they are in Hamas (an Israeli creation to counter the PLO), or otherwise. And what directly concerns Israel directly concerns the USA, for reasons, (from very good to utterly despicable), that many, far more qualified than any of us in here, have written thousands of pages about.

Hassan i Sabbah

09-24-2004, 04:25 AM

I think we must be talking about different Yusef Islams.

In my universe (where we have rain, and taxes, and things like cashew nuts - do you in yours?) Yusef Islam is a man who donated thousands of pounds in royalties to the families of 9/11 victims and who, sixteen years ago, donated money to a humanitarian fund in Israel that was later acccused by the Israeli government of channeling money to apparently un-named terrorist organisations (I can't actually google any information on this much further than the right wing websites where you evidently got that Rolling Stone link, Scott, but I'll see what I can do if I have time later.)

New

09-24-2004, 05:01 AM

I just learned a new word...

Islamophobes.

Think I'm gonna use it. A lot.

tonton

09-24-2004, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
I think we must be talking about different Yusef Islams.

In my universe (where we have rain, and taxes, and things like cashew nuts - do you in yours?) Yusef Islam is a man who donated thousands of pounds in royalties to the families of 9/11 victims and who, sixteen years ago, donated money to a humanitarian fund in Israel that was later acccused by the Israeli government of channeling money to apparently un-named terrorist organisations (I can't actually google any information on this much further than the right wing websites where you evidently got that Rolling Stone link, Scott, but I'll see what I can do if I have time later.)

Yeah, but if you don't trust without hesitation whatever the Israeli government says at any time, then you are anti-semitic! If Israel says there are links between Cat and Hamas then there must be links! Otherwise, you're a Jew hater! :rolleyes:

Scott really should read that book excerpt you posted last week, Hassan. Actually, I think I'm going to start reading those books.

sammi jo

09-24-2004, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by Scott
He donates money to Hamas (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/5922705?rnd=1095862190805&has-player=true).

QED

Yusuf Islam donated money to a home for the disabled, and also to a hospital. In US or Israeli terms, that makes him a suspect because the recipients were Palestinian organizations. A link to Hamas would underline an already illegal act . Donating money to any Palestinian cause has harsh consequences. Just try it! You may wonder why don't fellow Arab nations help the Palestinian people...its simple...it's illegal under Israeli law. Perhaps Mr Islam was at fault because he failed to recognize the longterm US-Israeli aim as regards the Palestinian people.

New

09-24-2004, 02:24 PM

Mr. Islam is now suing the US to find out why he was labeled as a terrorist.
I guess that's a pretty fair reaction.

sammi jo

09-24-2004, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by New
Mr. Islam is now suing the US to find out why he was labeled as a terrorist.
I guess that's a pretty fair reaction.

Of course its a fair reaction, but he won't get anywhere with this. He is wasting his money. Homeland Security Dept. cannot disclose in court why Islam was placed on a "terrorism watch list". The usual reason of "national security" will be invoked, and the court will throw out the case. DHS is not accountable for their actions.

crazychester

09-24-2004, 04:56 PM

So Scott how's that proof that Yusuf supports terrorist organizations thing coming along? I can't wait forever. I'm a busy woman, you know.

No wonder you kept making the statement without providing the link to back it up.

Anyway, once you've got the proof, you might also care to explain why the US let him into the country a mere 2 months ago. I mean that Rolling Stone article is dated 2000.

The Homeland Security thing's working well is it?

bunge

09-24-2004, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by crazychester
Anyway, once you've got the proof, you might also care to explain why the US let him into the country a mere 2 months ago.

Because someone is lying.

Harald

09-25-2004, 04:29 AM

Scott?

Hello, Scoooo-oooooooot!

Your country's selling out its principles (and alienating moderate muslims) and all you can do is go, "Look at this weak link."

Pastor Niemoller, America needs you. And Scott quotes you. Incredible.

segovius

09-25-2004, 07:16 AM

I'm gonna get me a gun, I'm gonna get me a gun, and all the people who put me down had better get ready to run.....

Scott

09-25-2004, 08:45 AM

I guess blowing up jews counts as charity work?:???:

Hassan i Sabbah

09-25-2004, 08:51 AM

what's the point

Really. Why do I bother? I suppose because I enjoy it, if I'm honest. It's a sort of masochistic pleasure, certainly, but hey— I keep posting here.

Anyway. I may as well as cut and paste from kitchenware websites and provide links to the Cardiff Civic Council as evidence because it makes no difference. The actual, verifiable truth is totally, utterly frigging irrelevant.

BLOWING UP JEWS IS WRONG.

CAT STEVENS IS A TERRORIST.

Quod erat demonstrandum. QED. Another blow struck for truth. My reading comprehention lives to comprehent another day.

Fuck it.

crazychester

09-25-2004, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by Scott
I guess blowing up jews counts as charity work?:???:

I'll take that as a "I'm sorry everybody I was wrong. I can't produce the proof."

You should be fuckin' ashamed of yourself.

Hassan i Sabbah

09-25-2004, 08:56 AM

I like this smilie :???:

Hassan i Sabbah

09-25-2004, 08:58 AM

shetline

09-25-2004, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Scott
I guess blowing up jews counts as charity work?:???:
Scott, there's a subtle difference between proving your accusations and simply restating them over again in new and shocking forms.

Scott

09-25-2004, 10:46 AM

Oh wait I forgot. Hamas is an honest organization and only spends money on what people think they donated it to.

bunge

09-25-2004, 11:16 AM

You should be fuckin' ashamed of yourself.

Hassan i Sabbah

09-25-2004, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Scott
Oh wait I forgot. Hamas is an honest organization and only spends money on what people think they donated it to.
I'm going to use big letters.

Yusef Islam did not donate money to Hamas.

I'm now going to repeat the above sentence (albeit at normal size).

Yusef Islam did not donate money to Hamas.

He just didn't. He didn't give money to Hamas after they promised him they'd spend the money on a school rather than on ball bearings and semtex.

You see, he didn't donate money to Hamas.

This is because, rather than donating money to Hamas, he chose to give his money to another body altogether. Rather than Hamas.

Another way of looking at this could be this: he didn't give any money to Hamas because the money he would have given to Hamas had already been given to someone else.

OK. To use an analogy, the money that he had, that he wanted to give to charity, he actually gave to charity, rather than a terrorist organisation (such as Hamas.)

I concede that that wasn't strictly speaking an analogy. Let me rephrase.

I am Yusef Islam, I have £X.XXp. I can give this money to whomsoever I chose.
I give some of it, £Y.YYp to a charitable organisation (I choice I make over a terrorist organisation that funds and equips suicide bombers.)
I now have £X-£Y in my bank account (we can call this £Z.ZZp) and I choose to spend this money on the groceries.

Your point that Hamas is a terrorist organisation, and that it is bad to blow up Jews, I quite concede.

I would only add that 9/11 was bad, Ford make motor cars, putting people in plastic shredders is bad, the Beatles were from Liverpool, stubbing your toe is bad, muscular dystrophy is bad, Apartheid is bad and that water boils at 100 degrees centigrade.

Anders

09-25-2004, 11:35 AM

But Hassan. Can you prove that he didn´t buy his groceries from a palestinian greengrocer, who is using the surplus of his buisness to aid Hamas? Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Hassan i Sabbah

09-25-2004, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Anders
But Hassan. Can you prove that he didn´t buy his groceries from a palestinian greengrocer, who is using the surplus of his buisness to aid Hamas? Absence of proof is not proof of absence.
You make a good point, Anders.

It just occurred to me, in the light of what you point out, that this is a man who donated money to 9/11 families.

HOW DO WE KNOW HE ISN'T A TRAINEE ARCHITECT?

crazychester

09-25-2004, 04:52 PM

Scott supports terrorist organizations.

Scott supports terrorists who are using car bombs and beheading people in Iraq.

Scott gives money to terrorist organizations that kill US soldiers.

Oh yes you do Scott. At least you do if you pay taxes.

You might have missed my Scott Taylor (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46524) thread. Didn't go anywhere. Pity. Scott, that's the good Scott, the Canadian Scott who was kidnapped and later released, not the anti-Scott, had some fascinating things to say. This is part of what he said.

I learned that the Iraqi police on the checkpoints were contributing part of their salary to the resistance's local leader, the emir. After all, they're whacking the crap out of these police recruits all over the place throughout Iraq, so it's partially protection money.

One guy was laughing at me and saying how ironic it is that the Americans are being attacked with RPGs purchased with their own money. Sad to say, the U.S. taxpayer is actually funding the Iraqi resistance. By paying these cops' salaries, U.S. taxpayers are actually helping to buy the weapons that are killing American soldiers every day.

You see Scott Taylor, a highly experienced journalist with a military background, got in the car with his captors because the Iraqi police directed him to. He mistakenly assumed the Iraqi police were the good guys.

So Scott, how's it feel to have the blood of American soldiers on your hands? Maybe you better spend a bit of time examining your own support for terrorism before you go accusing others.

09-26-2004, 02:12 AM

Well someone made a booboo: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,702062,00.html

crazychester

09-26-2004, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by Ra
Well someone made a booboo: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,702062,00.html

It's the "We spelt it wrong" excuse again! The same one they used with Kennedy!

They just don't give a fuck anymore do they?

>What excuse will we use?

>I don't care. Use the spelling mistake one.

>But we only used it a few weeks back. We'll look like fools.

>So? As long as the people are bigger fools than us, we're sweet.

segovius

09-26-2004, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by crazychester
It's the "We spelt it wrong" excuse again! The same one they used with Kennedy!

They just don't give a fuck anymore do they?

>What excuse will we use?

>I don't care. Use the spelling mistake one.

>But we only used it a few weeks back. We'll look like fools.

>So? As long as the people are bigger fools than us, we're sweet.

Right on - they can't even think through the implications of their lies can they ? What about all the 'real' terrorists who would have supposedly actually got in through this kind of spelling mistake ?

Luckily it's all another fabrication so we can all rest easy.

Good job Joe Public is doped up on TV and GM food really or this kind of thing could really ruin someone's Sunday.....