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View Full Version : Cheney's Major Iraq Flip Flop


Gilsch
09-30-2004, 01:22 AM
I hate using the word Flip Flop in the title of this thread, but since the neocons seem to like using the term on everybody else but them...

Here's what Cheney said in a Q and A after a speech to the Discovery Institute in 1992. " And the question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam worth?" Cheney said then in response to a question.

"And the answer is not very damned many. So I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait, but also when the president made the decision that we'd achieved our objectives and we were not going to go get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq." ( But, but I thought we were gonna be greeted with roses and as liberators...?)

About 146 Americans were killed in the Gulf War. More than 1,000 U.S. soldiers have died in the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath.

Going to Baghdad, Cheney said in 1992, would require a much different approach militarily than fighting in the open desert outside the capital, a type of warfare that U.S. troops were not familiar, or comfortable fighting. (Ahhh, but last year we were comfortable in that type of warfare. Got it.)

"All of a sudden you've got a battle you're fighting in a major built-up city, a lot of civilians are around, significant limitations on our ability to use our most effective technologies and techniques," Cheney said.

"Once we had rounded him up and gotten rid of his government, then the question is what do you put in its place? You know, you then have accepted the responsibility for governing Iraq."Emphasis mine.

It's not a joke guys. I'd be laughing my ass off at the hypocrisy of it all if the whole thing wasn't so ridiculously sad and pathetic.

Link (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/192908_cheney29.html)
I hope no registration is needed.

Gilsch
09-30-2004, 01:32 AM
Little noticed, and worthy of lengthy consideration, is a speech delivered by then-Defense Secretary Dick Cheney in 1992 to the Discovery Institute in Seattle.

The words of our future vice president -- defending the decision to end Gulf War I without occupying Iraq -- eerily foretell today's morass. Here is what Cheney said in '92:

"I would guess if we had gone in there, I would still have forces in Baghdad today. We'd be running the country. We would not have been able to get everybody out and bring everybody home.

"And the final point that I think needs to be made is this question of casualties. I don't think you could have done all of that without significant additional U.S. casualties. And while everybody was tremendously impressed with the low cost of the (1991) conflict, for the 146 Americans who were killed in action and for their families, it wasn't a cheap war. In other words they knew we would endure heavy casualties and be there for a long time. But we were gonna be greeted as liberators...and roses...and....:devil:
Pathetic (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/192908_cheney29.html)

Towel
09-30-2004, 03:15 AM
9/11...it's like risky surgery...9/11...better we fight them there than here...9/11...9/11...9/11

It's not difficult to anticipate the spin, although frankly this is as damning as it is unsurprising. Cheney should have known better than to conduct the war they way we have, and it sounds like he did know better. Between that, Powell, the NIE's...how in God's name did we screw this up so badly? It seems patently obvious that anyone with two neurons to rub together should have known what was likely to happen after we took Baghdad, and been ready for it. And yet...

Scott
09-30-2004, 08:55 AM
Yea and the world was in a vacuum between then and now.

shetline
09-30-2004, 09:02 AM
Please don't call the change we see in Cheney's Iraq position a "flip flop". Flip flop™ is a registered trademark of the RNC, and may only be used to describe Democrats.

Can we allow that Cheney changed his mind about going after Saddam for what he thought were good reasons to do so, and after taking into account new revelations or changes in the Iraqi situation over time? Well, we could, but Cheney would never give Kerry that much consideration, so... nah!

Can we instead simply say that Cheney is a political opportunist, blowing in the wind as best fits his personal ambitions and the financial interests of his cronies? Can we suggest that he was drunk on neocon fantasies and out of touch with reality?

Sounds about right to me, especially by Cheney's own rules of the game!

Northgate
09-30-2004, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by shetline
Please don't call the change we see in Cheney's Iraq position a "flip flop". Flip flop™ is a registered trademark of the RNC, and may only be used to describe Democrats.

Can we allow that Cheney changed his mind about going after Saddam for what he thought were good reasons to do so, and after taking into account new revelations or changes in the Iraqi situation over time? Well, we could, but Cheney would never give Kerry that much consideration, so... nah!

Can we instead simply say that Cheney is a political opportunist, blowing in the wind as best fits his personal ambitions and the financial interests of his cronies? Can we suggest that he was drunk on neocon fantasies and out of touch with reality?

Sounds about right to me, especially by Cheney's own rules of the game!

Republicans are brilliant "framers". I do admit.

Gilsch
09-30-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Scott
Yea and the world was in a vacuum between then and now. You and the Bush admin. seem to live in a vacuum impervious to reality.
Brilliant Scott.

Love and defend Bush and the Republican Party Above All
Love and defend Bush and the Republican Party Above All
Love and defend Bush and the Republican Party Above All
Love and defend Bush and the Republican Party Above All

giant
09-30-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Scott
Yea and the world was in a vacuum between then and now.
You know, guys, scott is right. There have been major changes since 91 and winter 02-03, notably that Iraq's economy was destroyed, it's military was reduced to a shadow of its former self and we disarmed the country of its WMD.