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View Full Version : George Will nails down why Iraq helps Bush hurts Kerry


trumptman
09-30-2004, 12:35 PM
Will nails it (http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/national/will/story/10912984p-11830418c.html)

It even includes an analogy for Midwinter.
:p

Presidential debates are to real debates as processed cheese is to cheese.

Will contends that Bush already won this debate when he negotiated the topic. Since Kerry has no clear direction on Iraq, in part because of the voters that make up his support being split on it, he loses everytime he opens his mouth about it.

George W. Bush knows that the more Kerry talks about Iraq, the more he, Bush, prospers. This is because anything Kerry says about Iraq contradicts something else he has emphatically said — and irritates either his liberal base or an American majority. So Bush might serve national understanding, and himself, if, early on tonight, he says:

"Everyone in the solar system knows my thinking on Iraq. But no one, probably not even anyone on my opponent's campaign plane, knows his thinking, as of now, 9:17 p.m. Eastern Daylight Time. So, I invite him to take my time — all of it — and tell a bewildered nation what he thinks, at least tonight, at least between 9 and 10:30 p.m. Specifically, he says we must 'succeed' in Iraq. What would he call success? What is more important, success or meeting his deadline of removing U.S. forces in four years? What, aside from the allure of his personality, makes him think 'the world' will help?"

Kerry's problem is that he does not have either the ideas or the courage to take the debate where it needs to go — to an uncomfortable confrontation with some comfortable American attitudes. Bush believes, as most Americans always have, in natural rights: He believes a particular kind of civic order — democracy, representation, the rule of law, a large sphere of privacy and individual autonomy — is right for the fulfillment of human nature. But Bush also seems to believe — at least the slapdash nonplanning for the Iraq project suggests this belief — that a natural right implies a natural, meaning a spontaneous and omnipresent, capacity.

Nick

Northgate
09-30-2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by trumptman
Will nails it (http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/national/will/story/10912984p-11830418c.html)

It even includes an analogy for Midwinter.
:p

Will contends that Bush already won this debate when he negotiated the topic. Since Kerry has no clear direction on Iraq, in part because of the voters that make up his support being split on it, he loses everytime he opens his mouth about it.

Nick

Bush's bounce started eroding the minute Kerry started talking tough about Iraq.

You know, you have a very low threshold for hyperbole and rhetoric, yet you don't hesitate to point out an article that supports your candidate that is rife with it.

But then again, innuendo and impressions are everything. That how you guys win election after election. Facts mean nothing. Hyperbole is everything.

KERRY'S ORANGE! HE LOOKS FRENCH! HE LIKES SWISS CHEESE!

Wrong Robot
09-30-2004, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Northgate

KERRY'S ORANGE! HE LOOKS FRENCH! HE LIKES SWISS CHEESE!

I dunno about you but that's why *I'm* not voting for him.

trumptman
09-30-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Northgate
You know, you have a very low threshold for hyperbole and rhetoric, yet you don't hesitate to point out an article that supports your candidate that is rife with it.

But then again, innuendo and impressions are everything. That how you guys win election after election. Facts mean nothing. Hyperbole is everything.

KERRY'S ORANGE! HE LOOKS FRENCH! HE LIKES SWISS CHEESE!

George Will....hyperhole and rhetoric?!?

That's sort of like saying NPR is supercharged and energetic.

Nick

SDW2001
09-30-2004, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Northgate
Bush's bounce started eroding the minute Kerry started talking tough about Iraq.

You know, you have a very low threshold for hyperbole and rhetoric, yet you don't hesitate to point out an article that supports your candidate that is rife with it.

But then again, innuendo and impressions are everything. That how you guys win election after election. Facts mean nothing. Hyperbole is everything.

KERRY'S ORANGE! HE LOOKS FRENCH! HE LIKES SWISS CHEESE!


Kerry IS Orange. :)

Also, Bush's bounce has come down a little. It's been a month since his convention. However, her also is holding a steady lead. There is no way around that.

Towel
09-30-2004, 03:27 PM
Anyone who still buys in to the idea that Kerry flip-flops on Iraq should go read his speech on the Senate floor during the debate over authorizing war. He spelled out his position with great clarity, and it hasn't ever changed since then. Why he gave the President authorization, how he thought the President should use that power, what we needed to be careful of, it's all right there. His comments since then have occasionally been mangled by the press, but they're all based on a consistent analysis of the situation, as articulated two years ago. It just doesn't fall neatly into "are you for the war or against the war" thinking, as it shouldn't.

Read it. (http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html) Seriously.

SDW2001
09-30-2004, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by Towel
Anyone who still buys in to the idea that Kerry flip-flops on Iraq should go read his speech on the Senate floor during the debate over authorizing war. He spelled out his position with great clarity, and it hasn't ever changed since then. Why he gave the President authorization, how he thought the President should use that power, what we needed to be careful of, it's all right there. His comments since then have occasionally been mangled by the press, but they're all based on a consistent analysis of the situation, as articulated two years ago. It just doesn't fall neatly into "are you for the war or against the war" thinking, as it shouldn't.

Read it. (http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html) Seriously.

You can't just look at one Kerry speech. That's the problem with Kerry. Kerry's public statements have been all over the map. Have you heard the clip with Diane Sawyer from yesterday? That's classic Kerry. I think you need to go and read and see exactly what Kerry has said in public about Iraq. It's just mind boggling, no matter how much one can't stand George Bush.

Gilsch
09-30-2004, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by SDW2001
Insert GOP Talking Points-------------------------------------------------- no matter how much one can't stand George Bush. [/B] This is where you have it all wrong. It should be no matter how much one can't TRUST George Bush.

Ra
09-30-2004, 05:25 PM
SDW, you've got some reading to do: http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9743513.htm

jimmac
09-30-2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by trumptman
Will nails it (http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/national/will/story/10912984p-11830418c.html)

It even includes an analogy for Midwinter.
:p



Will contends that Bush already won this debate when he negotiated the topic. Since Kerry has no clear direction on Iraq, in part because of the voters that make up his support being split on it, he loses everytime he opens his mouth about it.



Nick


Translation : You hope!:lol:

jimmac
09-30-2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by SDW2001
You can't just look at one Kerry speech. That's the problem with Kerry. Kerry's public statements have been all over the map. Have you heard the clip with Diane Sawyer from yesterday? That's classic Kerry. I think you need to go and read and see exactly what Kerry has said in public about Iraq. It's just mind boggling, no matter how much one can't stand George Bush.


Yes and the problem with Bush is he just can't tell the truth! Guess which one I'd pick!;)




OUT THE DOOR IN 2004!