MS, and goofy looking oriental chicks

[Splinemodel]

http://sweepstakesonline.com/macoffice/

This wasn't the only one I've seen in an ad lately. What's with the idea of goofy looking oriental chicks as the embodiment of the "creative" type? There have been a few monster ads, and a really dumb ad for a YAHIS*.

I think it's supposed to make me feel too normal to use a mac.



* YAHIS: Yet another home improvement show. Cousin of YASADM, yet another show about dumb motorcycles.

[Giaguara]

M$ does not want to be seen anymore as only a white company. You know, white is passe'. They need to appeal also to ethnical folks.

Yet they can't use black people in the ads. That won't sell to the white rich people. The same with hispanics. Can't be hispanic or black and STILL look like you are modern and avantgarde and yabbayabba.

Thus the only option they have to look avantgarde and to sell to white people too (and others) is to use some asianish but not too visibly asian people in the ads.

[BuonRotto]

That's Asian chicks, you insensitive goat! :mad: ;)

Asian chicks are hot. In glasses. But not her.

[crazychester]

What I find more extraordinary is that people actually get paid to write shit like this

To most, you’re a creative maverick. But clever new features in Microsoft® Office 2004 for Mac make it easy for your buttoned-up alter ego to take care of business.


And as for

Enter† to win a business professional action figure made to look just like you--only all business.
This is serious right? It's not just Spliney having a lend of me?

[Towel]

Asian chicks are hot.

Doesn't Slashdot have a whole anime section? There something about geeks and geeky hot Asian chicks. Maybe just because geeky hot Asian chicks, unlike other kinds of geeky hot chicks, actually exist outside of movies.

[Giaguara]

Originally posted by ShawnJ
heh.

where's tonton!?

he's not asnwering because if he would answer in this thread, we would know he has been in appleoutsider, thus seen the other threads he can't find anything to add. :)

[crazychester]

Originally posted by ShawnJ
heh.

where's tonton!?
You oughta talk you......you........you CANOODLER you!



(We know you're there tonton.)

[superkarate monkeydeathcar]

I thought Hong Kong (tonton's home) had the hippest, chicest women i've ever been around. I felt like a pair of ratty tennis shoes the whole time i was there.

[Matsu]

M$ realizes that Asian girls are the future...

[Scott]

I married and asian chick.:D

[superkarate monkeydeathcar]

my daughter's an asian chick.

[Aquatic]

:lol: I married and asian chick. At least we know you have some good taste!

[tonton]

Originally posted by Giaguara
he's not asnwering because if he would answer in this thread, we would know he has been in appleoutsider, thus seen the other threads he can't find anything to add. :)

:err:

The girl in the M$ ad is not really my style. Too much makeup... ugh! Quite honeslty, I've never seen a girl in Hong Kong with THAT much makeup on. Seriously. She looks like Mimi from Drew Carey in that photo.

[Kenneth]

She looks like one of the Twins members .. one bad girls group in Hong Kong...I meant singing.

[Giaguara]

Originally posted by tonton
:err:

The girl in the M$ ad is not really my style. Too much makeup... ugh! Quite honeslty, I've never seen a girl in Hong Kong with THAT much makeup on. Seriously. She looks like Mimi from Drew Carey in that photo.

That's cos she still has to sell to US customers, not Asian Asians.

Ie. if this campaign was for UK, we would see Indian people in it. Cos they could be "enough Asian" = more localized chic for UK taste.

[BuonRotto]

You think American women wear that much makeup?! :err:

[Splinemodel]

Originally posted by BuonRotto
That's Asian chicks, you insensitive goat! :mad: ;)

Asian chicks are hot. In glasses. But not her.

I've fought this battle for a long time. . . Asia is a big continent. Beyond that, it actually refers to Turkey. So Indians and Turks, therefore, are Asians as well. I don't know what happened between 1989 and 1996, but sometime in there some Oriental clown decided that he wanted to take the name of the world's largest continent as the moniker for his ethnicity.

Now, Oriental just means "Eastern." It's a lot more flexible, and, I swear, if this comes up more I'm going to starting calling Orientals "Yellows," since for goodness sake, my skin isn't white, I'm called a white, Michael Jordan's skin isn't black, and he's called a black.

So that's the rant. She's a goofy looking Asian chick, yes, but more specifically she's a goofy looking Oriental chick. Beyond that, the point wasn't "why are Orientals in ads," so much as "why are 'creative' people typecast as goofy Oriental chicks, without reference to whether or not you married, befriend, or otherwise entertain some variant form of Oriental chick."

I suppose this was partially answered. Good enough. Carry on.

Morning sucks.

[tonton]

Originally posted by Splinemodel
I've fought this battle for a long time. . . Asia is a big continent. Beyond that, it actually refers to Turkey. So Indians and Turks, therefore, are Asians as well. I don't know what happened between 1989 and 1996, but sometime in there some Oriental clown decided that he wanted to take the name of the world's largest continent as the moniker for his ethnicity.

Now, Oriental just means "Eastern." It's a lot more flexible, and, I swear, if this comes up more I'm going to starting calling Orientals "Yellows," since for goodness sake, my skin isn't white, I'm called a white, Michael Jordan's skin isn't black, and he's called a black.

So that's the rant. She's a goofy looking Asian chick, yes, but more specifically she's a goofy looking Oriental chick. Beyond that, the point wasn't "why are Orientals in ads," so much as "why are 'creative' people typecast as goofy Oriental chicks, without reference to whether or not you married, befriend, or otherwise entertain some variant form of Oriental chick."

I suppose this was partially answered. Good enough. Carry on.

Morning sucks.

Both Brits and Americans need to be educated here.

First the Brits: American Asians (especially Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese and Korean) DON'T like to be called "orientals". That's where the sensitivity comes in. If they don't like it, you shouldn't do it, regardless of the reason they don't like it. Also, in America, the term "Asian" generally does not include Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans and Arabs, and definitely does not include Turks, so you need to assume that an American who uses the term "Asian" really means East or Southeast Asian.

Now the Americans: In the UK, "Asian" generally means "South Asian", meaning Indians, Pakistanis, and Sri Lankan, but also loosely includes Middle Easterners and Far Easterners (who they usually call Orientals). Calling East Asians "Orientals" is not insensitive. It's simply the norm according to what everyone's comfortable with in the UK (even the East Asians). But Americans need to be more sensitive, too. Since "Asians" usually doesn't include South Asians, Americans don't know what to call them. Too many Americans call all those from the subcontinent "Indians" or "Pakistanis" without knowing which of the two they actually are, or if they're Sri Lankan or something else. most of the time they're wrong, and come off as extremely insensitive and stupid. If you think someone is Indian or Pakistani, unless you know for sure which, it's better to call them Asians if you need to call them anything. Believe me they'll understand.

Personally, I think the British system works better, but Brits still need to be sensitive to the fact that American Asians don't like to be called "Orientals".

[tonton]

Originally posted by Splinemodel
...why are 'creative' people typecast as goofy Oriental chicks...

Either that or skinny guys with goatees and narrow black-framed glasses.

[curiousuburb]

My first impression of the picture was that it was a 12 year old playing dressup with what she considered appropriate makeup and business attire.

Looks just like the trowel-application cosmetics beloved of prepubescent girls. That, or she works for Cyndi Lauper/Mimi/Tammy Faye Bakker.

Stock photos have sure gone downhill.

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by Splinemodel
So that's the rant.

You know I was just razzing you, right? 8)

[dfiler]

Originally posted by tonton
American Asians (especially Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese and Korean) DON'T like to be called "orientals". That's where the sensitivity comes in. If they don't like it, you shouldn't do it, regardless of the reason they don't like it.Sensitivity?

It's ironic that a descriptive, non-derogatory term, which is actually more accurate, is somehow politically incorrect. Also, I don't believe that activists for certain groups have the right to suddenly proclaim a new and ambiguous name for themselves, and then rudely expect everyone to bend to their will.

It is far more rude for to demand that I use a different term.

Really, which is worse? Demanding that well-meaning people change their vocabulary to something ambigious, or to refer to a group of people in a commonly understood and non-derogatory manner?

[EDIT]
Thanks for the commentary on the meaning of Asian in the UK, I had no idea.

Back on topic:

Whew, that chic is 110% west coast, straight out of an oxygen bar. But what do I know, I've been stuck in Pittsburgh for a few years now.
;)

[BuonRotto]

Supposedly, "oriental" objectifies people, that is, conceptually, it's reportedly treating a person as a thing. That's what I've been told anyway. Mm-hmm.

Let's not forget that "chick" is likewise politically incorrect even though, IMO, it's a cute termof endearment. So Splinemodel must be doubly in troubly! ;)

Ooh, I'm telling Gloria Steinem about this west coast oriental oxygen bar chick! :lol:

[murbot]

I'd bang the business suit version of her.

[hardeeharhar]

So we now know how to get access to murbot's hidden lucky char, er, i mean cases of molson...

[Splinemodel]

I love this thread.

We rule.

[shetline]

Originally posted by murbot
I'd bang the business suit version of her.
The business suit version is a 12" posable action figure. But, hey, if that's what you're into... :D

[Towel]

Originally posted by dfiler
It's ironic that a descriptive, non-derogatory term, which is actually more accurate, is somehow politically incorrect. Also, I don't believe that activists for certain groups have the right to suddenly proclaim a new and ambiguous name for themselves, and then rudely expect everyone to bend to their will. Every (youngish) Asian person I know uses "Asian", so I don't think it's s random and sudden change. I suspect, and maybe I'll ask people about this, that "Oriental" carries a lot of baggage with it about how Asians used to be treated in the US. Everything from Chinese immigration quotas to coolie labor to WWII internment. Sort of like "negro". It used to be a more-or-less neutral, objective term, but when it was in common usage it got associated with all kinds of bad things. So we sweep it into the dustbin and use a new, more-or-less neutral term which doesn't (yet) carry any baggage.

Older folks, oldish boomers on up, still use Oriental, because that's how it was in their day. Since they don't know any better, using it only makes them seem old, not rude.

I agree, though, that we could use a better generic term for sub-continenters.

[murbot]

Originally posted by shetline
The business suit version is a 12" posable action figure. But, hey, if that's what you're into... :D

Oh yeah? I'll show her a 12" posable action figure.

Well, I can bang her twice I guess.

[Splinemodel]

Originally posted by murbot
Oh yeah? I'll show her a 12" posable action figure.

Well, I can bang her twice I guess.

Snow brother too boku.

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by shetline
The business suit version is a 12" posable action figure. But, hey, if that's what you're into... :D No that's "asian" Barbie.

[addabox]

Godamighty, it's like Selma '65 in here.

I know I'll get slammed for being "knee jerk PC" , but you try going around spouting off about "orientals" in California (where it happens a great many people of Pacific Rim ancestry live), and I assure you you will get your ass kicked. Vietnamese kids are mean motherfuckers.

To our ears, "oriental" has about the same currency as "Negro". Perhaps someone would like to explain how it's perfectly OK to refer to African Americans as "Negroes" because, you know, it's the term you prefer, and the group in question is just being pointlessly prickly by expecting you to update your terminology. I mean, why should they have any say in it, right?

Where I live there are large populations of people hailing from Laos, Cambodia, Japan, China, Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, and whoever I forget. When I hear the self satisfied ignorance from some of you kids, I thank the good lord I live in California, with people from all over the world, so I can dine on their delicious foodstuffs and get exposed to something other than white bread tech geek triumphalism.

[tonton]

Originally posted by addabox
Godamighty, it's like Selma '65 in here.

I know I'll get slammed for being "knee jerk PC" , but you try going around spouting off about "orientals" in California (where it happens a great many people of Pacific Rim ancestry live), and I assure you you will get your ass kicked. Vietnamese kids are mean motherfuckers.

To our ears, "oriental" has about the same currency as "Negro". Perhaps someone would like to explain how it's perfectly OK to refer to African Americans as "Negroes" because, you know, it's the term you prefer, and the group in question is just being pointlessly prickly by expecting you to update your terminology. I mean, why should they have any say in it, right?

Where I live there are large populations of people hailing from Laos, Cambodia, Japan, China, Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, and whoever I forget. When I hear the self satisfied ignorance from some of you kids, I thank the good lord I live in California, with people from all over the world, so I can dine on their delicious foodstuffs and get exposed to something other than white bread tech geek triumphalism.

I agree that that's how things are in California. I can't believe dfiler can actually claim that "It is far more rude for to demand that I use a different term." That's just ridiculous.

[Splinemodel]

Originally posted by addabox
Godamighty, it's like Selma '65 in here.

I know I'll get slammed for being "knee jerk PC"

If an Oriental gang wants to beat me up because that's the only thing they have going for them, then so be it. The whole "Asian-empowerment" phase right now is no different than the black-power or white-power phases. They're all racist, except that very few Orientals are foolish enough to lose sleep over it.

The dumbest thing I heard all day is the line "They believe 'Oriental' objectifies them." If we live in a society where I have to lie to be polite, I'm going to rebel. Quite frankly, I'm sick of all this name stuff. I don't like it when people are afraid to point out someone's skin color, especially when a guy comes over to ask you where he can find someone. "Black guy in the red shirt." That's concise, objective, and really doesn't harm anyone. If you want to dwell on your ethnic makeup as an extremely important qualification, then you're just like so many of the white folks from the old south, to whom their livelihood was based only on the fact that they were white.

[BuonRotto]

Relax, chillin'! From my experience... oh, just relax you Cali PC bleeding heart guilt sponges. ;) :p We're not being very serious in here, and I don't think there's much of a race issue with us or with asians here (meaning in the US at least). Are there exceptions to that? Sure, there are exceptions. But my acquaintances know when I'm not being serious, it's not hard to tell. I think everyone else here knows what the score is regarding who is trying to be insulting and who isn't anyway.

...and there a LOT worse things to say about someone than calling them "oriental."

[jesperas]

I don't know about the whole objectification thing, but going by a historic definition, "oriental" is even less accurate than "Asian."

Oriental and occidental where orignally mariner's terms. Oriental referred to the direction of the rising sun (east), and occidental to the direction of the setting sun (west).

Asia is only in the direction of the orient if you're standing in Europe. If you're in North America, Europe is the "orient" and Asia the "occident."

Granted, modern usage has generally morphed these terms to refer to the "eastern" and "western" hemispheres of the globe (again, east and west from a Euro-centric perspective), but it's still good to know where these terms come from.

[addabox]

No, really, I'm not kiddin', "oriental" is pretty much "negro" for anybody who lives in hailing distance of asian-americans.

Are you seriously going to argue that "negro" is just fine? I'm using that example because I think that most of you have gotten the news on that one.

Spline, calling a group of people what they want to be called doesn't seem like much of an imposition...

You know what? I take it back. I beg ya'll to come out to California, Seattle, or NY, or any metro area with a substantial asian-american population, and by all means stick to your guns.

That's all the education you'll ever need. You might want to program 911 into your cell phones first.

[BuonRotto]

*sigh* You have no sense of humor. :( Lighten up. It's a friggin joke, the whole thing.

The whole reason it's become so offensive is rooted in stupidity and ignorance. The fact that people take such a term so seriously is ridiculous too. I'm not denying that it's considered inappropriate. [edited again]
I guess what I'm trying to say is that these racist connotations are preposterous, and that's why it's funny. Who honestly can mean to be racist and derogatory when they say "oriental"? It's ridiculous! If we always take these things so seriously, and let our words get retired because people at one time didn't like asians, then we've lost a lot. We'll never get over racism that way because people will use these words to poen up old wounds. I'd rather make light of such ideas because they don't deserve to be taken seriously. Anyway, no one meant oirental here like that, and the thread was a farce on that preposterous idea until you showed up.

[addabox]

Originally posted by BuonRotto
*sigh* You have no sense of humor. :( Lighten up. It's a friggin joke, the whole thing.

The whole reason it's become so offensive is rooted in stupidity and ignorance. The fact that people take such a term so seriously is ridiculous too. I'm not denying that it's considered inappropriate. [edited again]
I guess what I'm trying to say is that these racist connotations are preposterous, and that's why it's funny. Who honestly can mean to be racist and derogatory when they say "oriental"? It's ridiculous! If we always take these things so seriously, and let our words get retired because people at one time didn't like asians, then we've lost a lot. We'll never get over racism that way because people will use these words to poen up old wounds. I'd rather make light of such ideas because they don't deserve to be taken seriously. Anyway, no one meant oirental here like that, and the thread was a farce on that preposterous idea until you showed up.

Yeah, just a bunch of white guys hangin out shootin the breeze, havin some fun. Anybody gets offended, it's their problem, they should learn to lighten up.

Read my lips. "Oriental" is deeply offensive to asian-americans. You don't get to tell a population of Americans that they're wrong about that. Pretending to be just kidding doesn't cut it, anymore than going on about "spics" would be OK if you did a lot of laughing. Just because you're too insular to know any better doesn't change that.

Who honestly can mean to be racist and derogatory when they say "oriental"?

You really have no idea how ignorant that is, do you?

You sound like somebody's 85 year old cracker grandfather wondering about all the fuss when he refers to "coloreds". "What?" he says. "Don't mean no offense, I personally think some of them are good workers".

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by addabox
Yeah, just a bunch of white guys hangin out shootin the breeze, havin some fun. Anybody gets offended, it's their problem, they should learn to lighten up.

Read my lips. "Oriental" is deeply offensive to asian-americans. Pretending to be just kidding doesn't cut it, anymore than going on about "spics" would
be OK. Just because you're too insular to know any better doesn't change that.

Who honestly can mean to be racist and derogatory when they say "oriental"?

You really have no idea how ignorant that is, do you?

You sound like somebody's 85 year old cracker grandfather wondering about all the fuss when he refers to "coloreds". "What?" he says. "Don't mean no offense, I personally think some of them are good workers". So I guess "chinks" and "gooks" and "slant-eye" are out of the question, then?

:wow: :lol:

I can hear it now:

"You no funny wound eye cwacker!"

:lol: :lol:

Sorry.

[NaplesX]

Lighten up you funny people.

[shetline]

Originally posted by addabox
No, really, I'm not kiddin', "oriental" is pretty much "negro" for anybody who lives in hailing distance of asian-americans.
The word doesn't seem to bother anyone when refering to, say, a salad. Oriental Chicken Salad. Doesn't seem to cause any controversy.

On the other hand, I can imagine some odd reactions to a restaurant menu which featured a Negro Chicken Salad.

Just a thought.

[addabox]

Originally posted by shetline
The word doesn't seem to bother anyone when refering to, say, a salad. Oriental Chicken Salad. Doesn't seem to cause any controversy.

On the other hand, I can imagine some odd reactions to a restaurant menu which featured a Negro Chicken Salad.

Just a thought.

Okey doke, I guess we're ahead of the curve here for areas without much of an asian-american population.

But you might want to educate yourselves a bit:

Washington state bans the "O" word. (http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=143)

Let's see, many asian-americans in Washington? Yep.

The American Heritage dictionary (http://www.bartleby.com/61/91/O0119100.html) is somewhat less vehement:


Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Oriental—meaning “eastern”—is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.

Whatever. Ya'll get it when you have to.

[shetline]

Originally posted by addabox
Okey doke, I guess we're ahead of the curve here for areas without much of an asian-american population.
I wasn't arguing against your point by the way. I just felt like saying something goofy without adding a smiley :D to make it safe. :wow: :lol:

[crazychester]

Originally posted by BuonRotto
You have no sense of humor.
Actually he does. In fact to me, his sense of humour often comes across as very "British" (read subtle) and I've wondered where, as an American, he gets that from.

The word "Oriental" clangs to my ears (or eyes) too. Regardless of the whys and wherefores as to why Asians prefer not to be referred to by the term, it's no skin off my nose to avoid it. When I was a kid, to call Australians of Greek or Italian background a "wog" was highly offensive. Then they reclaimed the word and now often use it to describe themselves and, particularly the younger generation, wouldn't have much of a problem if an Anglo-Saxon Australian called them a wog. Is the change hypocritical? No. It actually reflects the breakdown of stereotypes of Greek and Italian Australians over time.

I would have once been offended by the word "chick" but I'm not now because men aren't such stupid chauvinistic bastards as they were 20 years ago.

On the other hand, I find murbot's "jokes" in this thread off because, to me, they're tired and about as funny as a 3 day old dog turd. There is a certain nastiness to my reading of them. Would I bother to try and point this out to him? No because I know it would be a waste of time, that it's his style and I concluded long ago he has certain "issues" as regards women. On the other hand, if say, addabox or tonton or yourself made a similar joke, I wouldn't read it in the same negative light because you're not constantly commenting on women in a sexually derogatory way and fantisizing about about your own sexual prowess (oh OK tonton fantisizes about his own sexual prowess but in a way that's not particularly offensive :lol: ).

Having said all that, do I think addabox should be worrying about the whole "oriental" thing that much? No because it's not worth expending that much energy on if people don't get it. Some using the term may have a negative view of Asians but I don't think most do. They just lack understanding of the issue.

But don't label addabox as a humourless stick-in-the-mud either. I just think that, for whatever reason, at the moment he's not as chipper as usual.

[addabox]

Originally posted by crazychester
Actually he does. In fact to me, his sense of humour often comes across as very "British" (read subtle) and I've wondered where, as an American, he gets that from.

The word "Oriental" clangs to my ears (or eyes) too. Regardless of the whys and wherefores as to why Asians prefer not to be referred to by the term, it's no skin off my nose to avoid it. When I was a kid, to call Australians of Greek or Italian background a "wog" was highly offensive. Then they reclaimed the word and now often use it to describe themselves and, particularly the younger generation, wouldn't have much of a problem if an Anglo-Saxon Australian called them a wog. Is the change hypocritical? No. It actually reflects the breakdown of stereotypes of Greek and Italian Australians over time.

I would have once been offended by the word "chick" but I'm not now because men aren't such stupid chauvinistic bastards as they were 20 years ago.

On the other hand, I find murbot's "jokes" in this thread off because, to me, they're tired and about as funny as a 3 day old dog turd. There is a certain nastiness to my reading of them. Would I bother to try and point this out to him? No because I know it would be a waste of time, that it's his style and I concluded long ago he has certain "issues" as regards women. On the other hand, if say, addabox or tonton or yourself made a similar joke, I wouldn't read it in the same negative light because you're not constantly commenting on women in a sexually derogatory way and fantisizing about about your own sexual prowess (oh OK tonton fantisizes about his own sexual prowess but in a way that's not particularly offensive :lol: ).

Having said all that, do I think addabox should be worrying about the whole "oriental" thing that much? No because it's not worth expending that much energy on if people don't get it. Some using the term may have a negative view of Asians but I don't think most do. They just lack understanding of the issue.

But don't label addabox as a humourless stick-in-the-mud either. I just think that, for whatever reason, at the moment he's not as chipper as usual.

Why, thank you kindly, ma'am.

You're right of course, I don't imagine anyone here really has "issues" with asian-americans, and I know I'm being a bit of a prig (recently out of work, hungry, inner demons, take your pick).

Still, everybody else is wrong and I'm right.

(By the way, I come by my sense of humor from my father, who is highly literate and fairly reserved while having a keen sense of the absurd-- hence, I guess, somewhat "british").

[a_greer]

We’re giving away nine business professional action figures. If you win, yours will be designed to look like you. This is Biblical...

...created in (my) image...and (I) said 'It was good'...then on the seventh day (I) rested...

sortof gives you a God complex...well...now nine lucky people can feel like Bill Gates...if only for a breif moment...

:lol: