Bin Laden's plan has been progressing beyond his expectations.

[tonton]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/index.html

And George W. Bush is the perfect buffoon to see it through to complete success.

Was anyone so foolish not to see this as one of BL's primary motivations?

I think at this point it's abundantly clear that this Bin Laden tape was not a Rove creation. It ties things up far too nicely as an accurate condemneation of Bushco's policies.

Bin Laden's intention was not to kill. Bin Laden's intention was to create an economic disaster for the USA. Not through the costs associated with the WTC collapse. But with the aftermath. And devastating it has indeed been.

[FormerLurker]

Now we know why the Bush admin. only released a partial transcript.

[KingOfSomewhereHot]

please.

Bin Laden bled the Soviet Union dry ??? ... the arms race against the US had nothing to do with USSR's fiscal problems ???

I'm not saying the US should be spending more than we take in, just to fight IRAQ, but I hardly think BinLaden and friends have the ability to "bleed America to the point of bankruptcy".

[rageous]

Monday morning quarterbacking.

If it was his plan, he'd not be touting it now. How do I know this? Well he never mentioned it as being the hidden reason behind the Mujahideen resistance until just now, so why play his hand in front of the US?

He's making up plausible reasons after the fact.

He did it cause he's a psycho that gets his rocks off terrorizing people.

[segovius]

Originally posted by tonton
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/index.html

And George W. Bush is the perfect buffoon to see it through to complete success.

Was anyone so foolish not to see this as one of BL's primary motivations?

I think at this point it's abundantly clear that this Bin Laden tape was not a Rove creation. It ties things up far too nicely as an accurate condemneation of Bushco's policies.

Bin Laden's intention was not to kill. Bin Laden's intention was to create an economic disaster for the USA. Not through the costs associated with the WTC collapse. But with the aftermath. And devastating it has indeed been.

While I agree that it's looking likely the tape is genuine, there are still some problems. Something's still not quite right.

That 'something not quite right' is why I'm with rageous on the economic theory. Can't see it as his plan pre-911, possibly he capitalised on it afterwards.

Look at this transcript: bin Laden says 'your destiny is not in the hands of Bush or Kerry - it is in your own'. I'm paraphrasing but that's the import. This is important:

a) it doesn't make sense - he is telling the US people to do something but not saying what - something that is not voting for Kerry, Bush or anyone else. What is it ? And why doesn't he say it ? This is strongly linked to the 'not quite right'-ness.

b) This is a massive point: no Islamic fundamentalist would ever say this - nor would bin Laden as we know him from ALL previous speeches. No Muslim would ever say it.

In Islamic theology your fate and the outcomes of things are in God's hands and God's alone. It's verging on blasphemy - not quite but getting there.

I have huge problems with this statement. Imo it implies one of the following:

1. It's a fake. A very good one.

2. Osama is on the payroll.

3. Osama is being held in some foreign country (China ? Pakistan ? Iran ?) with his consent or against his will and is being used as a bargaining chip for something. The US refused to play ball and the tape is the holding country's (or group perhaps) response or perhaps final ultimatum to Bush.

4. And this is the one I'm leaning to - Osama has had some sort of 'turning point' - perhaps he is re-evaluating his position. Some sort of crisis where he has moved away from Islamic fundamentalism. Or perhaps he never was that anyway and it was just a cover for another agenda, now he has decided to shed the cover to wrongfoot Bush's propaganda. Another trap Bush fell for.

But you have to say it: you cannot accept this Osama tape at face value without accepting the orthodox line on 911 and the WOT. Personally I cannot do this.

There are many, many unresolved enigmas about 911 and many things have been hidden and covered-up. We don't know what they are but Bush does. So does the person who committed the 911 acts.

If that person is Osama and this person on the tape is Osama you would expect some mention of this - if only to bash Bush - he bashes him on everything else. But there's nothing.

Put Options pre 911: That happened. It's a fact. No possibility of coincidence. Someone with inside knowledge made millions.

Who ? If al-Q why no in-depth investigation ? Why was it dropped ? Why doesn't Obl mention it in his economic speech ? It would fit right in.

If not al-Q then someone else had knowledge of the plan.

UnIslamic behaviour of hijackers: this is still a stumbling block.

Obl denied 911 after the attacks: This is also a fact. This argues for the 'change of heart' theory or the fake.

And on and on.

We cannot take this tape at face value without examining the subtext - the tape seems to want us to do just that which is why I believe it is aimed at non-thinkers, Repubs, Bushites and right-wing whackos of all kinds as this is their metier.

And the timing......

[the cool gut]

Weither Binny intended to bankrupt the U.S. doesn't really matter any, more. Because, that's whats happening regardless.

[segovius]

Originally posted by the cool gut
Weither Binny intended to bankrupt the U.S. doesn't really matter any, more. Because, that's whats happening regardless.

Too true - I don't think Bush needs any help in that department.

[rageous]

Originally posted by the cool gut
Weither Binny intended to bankrupt the U.S. doesn't really matter any, more. Because, that's whats happening regardless.

It does matter when he starts claiming it was his intention all along.

[macenzo]

so is the next terror act in Ohio?

[segovius]

Originally posted by macenzo
so is the next terror act in Ohio?

No, Fallujah.

Followed by Syria and Iran.

[crazychester]

Originally posted by segovius
Too true - I don't think Bush needs any help in that department.
Very true but if the Europeans could get some of those oil producers to jump ship and switch from dollars to euros, it would speed things up a bit. Bush might have stopped Iraq trading in euros but it remains to be seen whether he can keep the supply coming.

Yep, Syria and Iran are next on the list.

Party time for OBL.

[tonton]

Actually what I'm most concerned about is my six year-old dughter's college education. I want her to be educated in the US because I believe in the academic breadth of the American higher education system, which is unrivalled worldwide. Because of Bush economics, we'll likely see a huge increase in tuition and a huge reduction of assistance nationwide.

I'm also concerned that if she ever decides to settle in the US she'll be forced to pay 40 or 50% taxes because SOMEBODY will have to pay for the war and the Bush tax cuts eventually.

Remember when California sales tax was 6%? When you could earn close to 10% annually in a savings account? When you got an entry level job and your entire family got full medical and dental coverage?

It has all been going downhill since Reagan. We need a fiscal conservative in the White House again. Someone who can cut the national debt and stop the wastage and risk associated with that debt. Imagine if we didn't have to worry about national debt interest? We could use all that extra money to *gasp* cut taxes. Pay for social programs and education.

It's amazing. Most Republicans don't carry a credit card balance because they believe from a family perspective that you should spend only what you can afford. Republilcans are very responsible with their personal debt. But why is it that the Republicans think the nation should keep borrowing in this way? It's ludicrous. Why can't we run the country like we run our own household? Whether we can afford a war should be a criterion for whether we should go to war. Whether we can afford a powerful military should be a criterion for whether we should have one. Spend responsibly.