History, Please Forgive Us

[Northgate]

My family and I are completely disheartened and embarrassed to be Americans right now.

We are becoming ruled by bible thumping war mongerers.

What we have unleashed on the world, in the name of THE NEVER-ENDING WAR ON TERROR, is a nightmare in which we have chosen not to awaken from.

To all_our European and northern brothers, we progressive Americans are truly, heart-felt sorry for our short sighted, stupid, irrational public.

We truly tried to correct the severe wrongs with our current administration, but we failed. We are simply out numbered by our ignorant southern countrymen with their fingers stuck in their ears.

To be honest I am a afraid for our country and the world.

Bush and Cheney will now rule without any fear of political recrimination. Our constition will now be forever bloodied with hate. Our warmongering ways have been ratified and approved. The rich will become even richer. The poor will suffer and pay all the bills. They care about their money more than the well-being of others. They value religion over science. They believe that the war in Iraq was a good thing. They (inexplicably) think the war on terror has been a success.

[Powerdoc]

I truly understand your feelings. In a short term this is not good.
In the long term who knows ?

Bush have left an heritage : the Irak war and the national debt. Kerry would have been in trouble to try to fix this issues, because honestly it won't be a cakewalk. Bush will have to fix the mess he create himself. That's a good thing in the long term for democrats.

[Anna Mated]

Yes, taking the responsibility for the fuck-up he made.

I'm kinda glad he got in.

Bible-thumping warmongers, they tried it before, it was called the dark-ages.

[bborofka]

http://www.globalvote2004.org

[New]

I don't know what to say.

I really thought you'd get it right this time.
To all of you who made an effort; I really feel for you.

[tonton]

Originally posted by New
I don't know what to say.

I really thought you'd get it right this time.
To all of you who made an effort; I really feel for you.

Thanks. Looks like I'll stay here for at least another four years.

[7E7]

Originally posted by Northgate
My family and I are completely disheartened and embarrassed to be Americans right now.

We are becoming ruled by bible thumping war mongerers.

What we have unleashed on the world, in the name of THE NEVER-ENDING WAR ON TERROR, is a nightmare in which we have chosen not to awaken from.

To all_our European and northern brothers, we progressive Americans are truly, heart-felt sorry for our short sighted, stupid, irrational public.

We truly tried to correct the severe wrongs with our current administration, but we failed. We are simply out numbered by our ignorant southern countrymen with their fingers stuck in their ears.

To be honest I am a afraid for our country and the world.

Bush and Cheney will now rule without any fear of political recrimination. Our constition will now be forever bloodied with hate. Our warmongering ways have been ratified and approved. The rich will become even richer. The poor will suffer and pay all the bills. They care about their money more than the well-being of others. They value religion over science. They believe that the war in Iraq was a good thing. They (inexplicably) think the war on terror has been a success.

That's your problem. The majority of AMERICANS rejected your allegedly superior view of the world. Unfortunately as this election has clearly illustrated, your point of view does not reflect those held by most Americans so don't condemn them for having a different view. We are in no way inferior - just different. So go ahead and cry - you won't get any sympathy from me. We had to take four years of your ridiculous lies and toally unfounded accusations and it is now clear that there has been a quiet but very audible backlash against your petty partisan ways.

[tonton]

Originally posted by 7E7
That's your problem. The majority of AMERICANS rejected your allegedly superior view of the world. Unfortunately as this election has clearly illustrated, your point of view does not reflect those held by most Americans so don't condemn them for having a different view. We are in no way inferior - just different. So go ahead and cry - you won't get any sympathy from me. We had to take four years of your ridiculous lies and toally unfounded accusations and it is now clear that there has been a quiet but very audible backlash against your petty partisan ways.

No. The majority of voting Americans. And yes, I know that's the fault of the idiotic non-voting Americans as much as it is the fault of that idiotic majority of voting Americans.

[Neø]

most of you guys posting in this thread act so UN-American, that i thought that you were european socialists, before i looked at the "From" part of yer user info...

[New]

Seems to me that many americans won't vote a president out of office during a war. That's pretty orwellian if you ask me...

[Franck]

> The majority of AMERICANS rejected your allegedly superior view of the world


I still can't understand how WAR could be superior to PEACE !?!?

Terrorism is not the ony problem Americans have to face (public health care system, unemployment…) but it's a shame to vote for G.W.Bush who killed 1000's of US soldiers and 100 000's of civil iraqi people for nothing.

Why nothing ? US won't be more secure after the war than before (it's quite the same for the other coutries). Terrorism will still exist: this war was unnecessary.

[Relic]

Originally posted by 7E7
That's your problem. The majority of AMERICANS rejected your allegedly superior view of the world. Unfortunately as this election has clearly illustrated, your point of view does not reflect those held by most Americans so don't condemn them for having a different view. We are in no way inferior - just different. So go ahead and cry - you won't get any sympathy from me. We had to take four years of your ridiculous lies and toally unfounded accusations and it is now clear that there has been a quiet but very audible backlash against your petty partisan ways.

Ah, it’s all starting to come back.

Die Fahne hoch, die Reihen fest geschlossen
S.A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit

Die Strasse frei den braunen Bataillonen
Die Strasse frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann
Es schau'n aufs Hakenkreuz voll Hoffnung schon Millionen
Der Tag für Freiheit und für Brot bricht an

Zum letzen Mal wird nun Appell geblasen
Zum Kampfe steh'n wir alle schon bereit
Bald flattern Hitler-fahnen über allen Strassen
Die Knechtschaft dauert nur mehr kurze Zeit

Die Fahne hoch, die Reihen fest geschlossen
S.A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit

(English Translation)
Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the Red Front and reaction
march in spirit with us in our ranks.

The street free for the brown battalions,
The street free for the Storm Troopers.
Millions, full of hope, look up at the swastika;
The day breaks for freedom and for bread.

For the last time the call will now be blown;
For the struggle now we all stand ready.
Soon will fly Hitler-flags over every street;
Slavery will last only a short time longer.

Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the Red Front and reaction
march in spirit with us in our ranks.

Silly blind countrymen, don't you know tricks are for kids! Hunting imaginary terrorist is just the beginning.

[ericg]

Originally posted by Relic
Ah, it’s all starting to come back.

Die Fahne hoch, die Reihen fest geschlossen
S.A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit

Die Strasse frei den braunen Bataillonen
Die Strasse frei dem Sturmabteilungsmann
Es schau'n aufs Hakenkreuz voll Hoffnung schon Millionen
Der Tag für Freiheit und für Brot bricht an

Zum letzen Mal wird nun Appell geblasen
Zum Kampfe steh'n wir alle schon bereit
Bald flattern Hitler-fahnen über allen Strassen
Die Knechtschaft dauert nur mehr kurze Zeit

Die Fahne hoch, die Reihen fest geschlossen
S.A. marschiert mit ruhig festem Schritt
Kam'raden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen
Marschier'n im Geist in unsern Reihen mit

(English Translation)
Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the Red Front and reaction
march in spirit with us in our ranks.

The street free for the brown battalions,
The street free for the Storm Troopers.
Millions, full of hope, look up at the swastika;
The day breaks for freedom and for bread.

For the last time the call will now be blown;
For the struggle now we all stand ready.
Soon will fly Hitler-flags over every street;
Slavery will last only a short time longer.

Flag high, ranks closed,
The S.A. marches with silent solid steps.
Comrades shot by the Red Front and reaction
march in spirit with us in our ranks.

Silly blind countrymen, don't you know tricks are for kids! Hunting imaginary terrorist is just the beginning.


Aaah..... The Horst Wessel song

[segovius]

Yep, takes you back....

.......or forward.

[Eric_Z]

@Relic

you know, I don't agree with Bush's polietics either. But starting to drag up the Horst Wessel Lied is more then a tad over the top, really.

The good thing that may come from this is that the NASA Mars program might still recive the funding that it needs. :-/

Ah well, we'll have to wait and see I guess.

[Relic]

Originally posted by Eric_Z
@Relic

you know, I don't agree with Bush's polietics either. But starting to drag up the Horst Wessel Lied is more then a tad over the top, really.

The good thing that may come from this is that the NASA Mars program might still recive the funding that it needs. :-/

Ah well, we'll have to wait and see I guess.

Yeah, you're probably right. I just can’t help but feel I’ve seen this show before.

fas·cism
Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m
Function: noun
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

[Common Man]

The people have spoken. America is turning to the right and returning to our Christian values. We are rejecting the secular European socialist ways of thinking. The people made a stand yesterday. The President has a vote of support. The people like what he is doing. I know that is hard for the left that spent its time and money ranting about the President and why we should all hate him. Truth is we like him and we like the things he does.

[groverat]

The people have spoken. America is turing to the right and returning to our Christian values. We are rejecting the secular European socialist ways of thinking. The people made a stand yesterday. The President has a vote of support. Th epeopl elike what he is doing. I know that is hard fo rth eleft that spend sits time and money ranting about the President and why we should all hate him. Truth is we like him and we like the things he does.

I do not disagree with this at all. I think every word of it is true (not the spelling and spacing issues, of course, but the point is clear).

The only difference between you and I is that you seem to look at that as a good thing.

[segovius]

Originally posted by groverat
I do not disagree with this at all. I think every word of it is true (not the spelling and spacing issues, of course, but the point is clear).

The only difference between you and I is that you seem to look at that as a good thing.

It is the final abandonment of reason and the surrender to emotionalism.

I only hope that in four years time there's still a way back and no irreversible damage has been done.

Btw - is it really all over for Kerry ? Even though Ohio isn't in ?

[groverat]

Yes, it is over for Kerry. It was over for Kerry before it started. Anyone who thought he actually had a chance was just being delusional (no offense intended).

It took a Herculean effort on the part of the Democratic party for Kerry to "only" lose the popular vote by 4 million. This country wants George.

[jimmac]

A dark day for america. The ones who voted for Bush deserve what they get in the next four years ( and it won't be pretty ). Our economic " recovery " is already starting to sputter. The problem is the rest of us don't deserve this. And before you Bush lovers crow too loud it wasn't a landslide.

[johnq]

She stands in the face of Jewry
and will not lose hope or faith
Deutchland, the land of unity
Still the home of the strong.

Chorus
So raise the Bundesflagge, our Glory
Let us join our fellow German
History will write the story,
Deutchland will always stand.

Walking through the fires of danger
There are those who gave their lives
They're the world's greatest heroes,
And we won't forget their sacrifice.

Chorus
So raise the Bundesflagge, our Glory
Let us join our fellow German
History will write the story,
Deutchland will always stand.

Deutchland is not divided
Our enemies they will be stopped.
For, the Aryan people are united
And still, one nation under the Führer.

Chorus
So raise the Bundesflagge, our Glory
Let us join our fellow German
History will write the story,
Deutchland will always stand.

(c) Randy Travis (http://www.lyricsdownload.com/randy-travis-america-will-always-stand-lyrics.html)

[THT]

This is the USA. We have presidents limited to 2 terms, not Kings forever. If you could take it for 4 years, you could take it for another 4 years.

In the meanwhile, the Democratic party has to start over from the ground up, much like Dean's effort. Democrats have to run for lowly school councils, sheriffsm comissioners and judgeships. I was embarrassed to see Democrats only field candidates for the judgeships on my ballot. That shouldn't be happening.

[Stoo]

Seems to me that many americans won't vote a president out of office during a war. That's pretty orwellian if you ask me...

And what better war for that purpose than the War on Terror?

[segovius]

Originally posted by Stoo
And what better war for that purpose than the War on Terror?

Any war chosen at random from any conflict ever fought - from little Johnny's scrap with the schoolground bully to the Battle of the Bulge.

What you seem incapable of assimilating is that terror is not a monolithic entity but is a methodology, it is a weapon a military technique.

You might as well declare war on the Pincer Movement' or 'Blitzkrieg' as opposed to the people who use these methods.

And yes, I know that's what Bush did and will continue to do and why the perpetrators of terror are on the loose. Just because it sounds good. Who cares if it doesn't work ?

Churchill: forget about the Germans - this is a war on the Messerschmitt 101.

:no:

[rok]

my wife and i were at a get-together of other democrats in the little town of hammond, louisiana, and we all watched as the polls came in and the electoral votes kept stacking up, then each state went for bush through the south, like dominoes.

half of my friends live in columbus, ohio, after our two years living there. one friend stood in line yesterday morning for two and a half hours. but still, it was, in the end, just one vote.

michael moore caught a lot of flack for calling america the dumbest country on earth, but when moral issues are the key exit polling issue, when the government shouldn't even be dictating moral issues, you have to wonder if he has a point.

and from now on, any democrat running for office? take my advice: f!ck the youth vote. 10-12%?!?! are you f'n kidding me? that's beyond pathetic. it's embarassing. rock the vote, smackdown the vote. ah, screw it. the only people you have to aim for are people 40 years old or higher, because they will turn out in droves. mind you, i used to think that there should be a law requiring voting. but as i stood in line yesterday, i realized that i don't. because i was happy to see lots of people voting, despite whatever they would be voting for. and that kind of feeling cannot occur when everyone's just doing it because they'll be fined or something if they don't.

well, folks, republican held house, senate, congress, presidency, with an assured new supreme court appointment in the next four years by w.

[groverat]

Originally posted by rok
michael moore caught a lot of flack for calling america the dumbest country on earth, but when moral issues are the key exit polling issue, when the government shouldn't even be dictating moral issues, you have to wonder if he has a point.

No wondering about it. It's been true for a long time. Not in the entire world, of course, but definitely among Western industrial powers. Our populace is quite disturbing.

[dmz]

You guys are being VERY sore loosers, it would be better if you didn't post. To equate Bush with Hitler marks you with the characteristic hatred that is marking the left more and more.

For all you lefties out there here is what you should be worried about: Bush was as 'damaged goods' as he could be, what with Farenheit 911, Richard Clark, Paul O'Neil, and a partidge in a pear tree casting EVERY dispersion on his methods and intentions that could have POSSIBLY been cast.

What do you think the score would have been had Iraq been going well? Where do you think the country is aligned right-left if you remove the strife surrounding the war on terror and Micheal Moore's mental mastrubation? I'll bet it's not a 51-48 split -- the country is shifting to the right regardless what John Bonjovi and 'The Boss' tells you what to think.

There's always Sweden! At least Osama says they're being good little boys and girls -- maybe you guys could get green cards and build Volvo's? I hear the porn is really good.....all the modern conveniences...and no Bible thumpers to ruin the fun. Get going if you can't play and be good sports while still adhereing to at least election rules, if not the rules of logic.

[rok]

Originally posted by dmz
You guys are being VERY sore loosers... Get going if you can't play and be good sports while still adhereing to at least election rules, if not the rules of logic.

you know, therein lies something that truly, to my core, pisses me off... so many people approach this crap like it's the friggin' yankees/red sox. don't you get it? this isn't a sports rivalry. it's our goddamned government!

now, i do not agree that i am ashamed to be american. try living in canada while the rest of the world is dogging your home country and you'll realize how american you really are. i was red, white and blue before it was cool to be so. but i am sick and f'n tired of this being a "side vs. side" issue, like it's some sort of ohio state/michigan annual. i am sick of being painted as some sort of baby-eating, terrorist-loving, anti-troop, tax-'em-to-the-heavens kind of person because i stand against the president.

[Jubelum]

I love watching whining bedwetters try to rationalize the outright rejection of their "high-minded" and intellectually arrogant utopian ideals.

Liberalism lost, and it lost BIG. Not only Kerry lost, but eeeeeevil Republicans ADDED seats in the US Congress. This with a crappy economy, war, and the Ghost of 2000.

Do your best to explain, deal with your loss, and insult the clear will of your fellow citizens. Democracy works. It's just sour grapes that the "idiots" in fly-over country didn't buy the BS from an arrogant Massachusetts liberal. By over 3,000,000 votes.

Thanks for a great race, America. Let's move forward with tax cuts, a strong war on terror, and a return to republic-an ideals.

W: Valid thru 2009.

[New]

Only in the US and Saudi Arabia is liberal a bad word...

[johnq]

Originally posted by dmz
You guys are being VERY sore loosers, it would be better if you didn't post. To equate Bush with Hitler marks you with the characteristic hatred that is marking the left more and more.

Actually, I'm calling Nationalism "Nationalism" and rally songs "rally songs".

I would never equate Bush with Hitler.

Hitler was intelligent.

Therefore that would make Cheney the Hitler in your little analogy. Let's give credit for intelligence where it's due. Evil or not.

I love America. And I see the rot in it's government. Showing me tallys of the blind doesn't convince me otherwise.

Randy Travis et al would have done well in Germany.

(For the non-US residents: My "Deutchland will always stand" song was a slightly altered/Nazified Randy Travis song to show the point of what a fine line we tread between good and evil with regard to patriotism. He's a country singer here in the USA. Original lyrics are in the link of his name in that post)

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by johnq
tallys of the blind

If they had voted YOUR way, they would not be so blind, no?

EXTRA sour for your tastes...
http://www.fdu.edu/images/hotel/grapes.jpg

[johnq]

Originally posted by Jubelum
If they had voted YOUR way, they would not be so blind, no?

EXTRA sour for your tastes...
http://www.fdu.edu/images/hotel/grapes.jpg

"My side" can see the limbs lost by this useless war on our return troops.

"My side" can SEE the coffins coming in everyday DESPITE RUMSFELD FORBIDDING THEIR BEING SHOWN BY THE MEDIA.

"My side" can see women being the sole providers for families who've lost their husbands due to this needless war.

"My side" sees flag waving instead of rational thought from its fellow citizens.

Yes, "My side" is indeed not blind. Had some of your side seen the light we'd be better off.

Shove your grapes. I've been like this since 9/11 or earlier. Lucid and livid.

Seeing Bush win is as shocking as seeing kids eat their own snot.
Bitter? No. Disgusted? You bet.

[jccbin]

quote: It is the final abandonment of reason and the surrender to emotionalism.

huh?

Liberalism is the surrender to emotionalism, not conservatism.

Liberalism is all about making the liberal fell better about himself, whether it helps the populace or not.

Conservatism is about helping people grow and become better by demanding that people live up to their potential.

Liberals like Stalin killed 60 million people to benefit his party. Chinese liberals have killed millions. Central-government-loving liberals have killed hundreds of millions in the last century.

Yeah, that's reasonable and logical.

Liberalism must be destroyed.

[Jubelum]

War is a terrible thing, john. We all agree.

We can fight them there or fight them here. The victims of 9/11, including many of my colleagues, had no choice in the matter.
Their widows are sole prodivers now, too.

[johnq]

Originally posted by Jubelum
War is a terrible thing, john. We all agree.

We can fight them there or fight them here. The victims of 9/11, including many of my colleagues, had no choice in the matter.
Their widows are sole prodivers now, too.

Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism or 9/11. Until Bush made it a magnet.

Ye haw. Round up all them sand niggers. Kill 'em all. Let Allah sort them out.

That...is my country. For another 4 years.

[Harald]

Originally posted by jccbin

Liberals like Stalin killed 60 million people to benefit his party. Chinese liberals have killed millions. Central-government-loving liberals have killed hundreds of millions in the last century.

Liberalism must be destroyed.

Just a quick smite with the clue stick: Stalin was not ... uh ... 'liberal.' He was one of the most illilberal head of states the world has ever seen.

Liberalism is about things like human rights. Liberals are against things like PATRIOT. Conservatism would have conserved slavery, liberals would have removed it first.

Do you get it?

[groverat]

Stalin was liberal? What?

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by Harald
Conservatism would have conserved slavery, liberals would have removed it first.

Do you get it?

Do you?

Here's the clue stick back atcha... a REPUBLICAN ended slavery in the US.

Yes, a REPUBLICAN freed my peeps!

:smokey:

[rok]

Originally posted by jccbin
Liberalism is the surrender to emotionalism, not conservatism. Liberalism is all about making the liberal fell better about himself, whether it helps the populace or not.

um, this coming from the party whose last candidate who still saw a compassionate concern for the poor was richard m. nixon? a party whose driving voting force is founded in the visceral outcries against gay marriage because the bible says so?

and it's the LIBERALS who are emotionalists?

f'n wake up.

[rok]

Originally posted by Jubelum
Do you?

Here's the clue stick back atcha... a REPUBLICAN ended slavery in the US.

Yes, a REPUBLICAN freed my peeps!

:smokey:

yes, pal, and the republicans abandoned the whole "party of lincoln" when johnson won and the south embraced social conservativism in its wake. but in clasic style, your memory extends as far as the last week of reality t.v.

lincoln would be ashamed of what has become of his party. period.

[New]

I actually thought that post was irony...

...what irony...

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by rok

lincoln would be ashamed of what has become of his party. period.

While you are speaking for the dead... what does Elvis think about all this. LMFAO!


WWLD? What would Lincoln do?

:lol:

[rok]

Originally posted by Jubelum
While you are speaking for the dead... what does Elvis think about all this. LMFAO!


WWLD? What would Lincoln do?

:lol:

i speak for the dead as much as you do...

[johnq]

"tallys of the blind"

More like "tallys of the terrified".

"You can't win the war on terror." so the saying goes.

Eternal war. War without end. Hm....

"It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going well or badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist." eg (http://www.newspeakdictionary.com/go-goldstein.html)

Hmmm...all branches of government under one party. "Patriotic media" treated as the only 'fair and balanced" source of news.

Screw terrorism. We're headed for outright wars with real superpowers like E.U and Russia and China. Why are they going to stand by and watch the U.S. do a mideast powergrab? "Better to fight them there than here".

Draft is on the way. Mark my words. (If you think volunteerism is up with a stop loss in effect for so long, you're a fool).

We will expand into Syria and Iran. "Better to fight them there than here".

[Common Man]

Conservatives support self-sufficiency. Conservatives want to empower people to stand up on their own feet and succeed. Conservatives have confidence in people. The Democrats for a very long time have ridden the "we will take care of you" wagon. They have used this to capture the blue color and especially the minority vote. This is outdated. Today's men and woman of color want to achieve and cut out their own slice of pie. They don't want to eat the kitchen scraps that the Democrats give them for their vote. I’m so tired of the Democrats with their " you poor people we will help you line". All that the Democrats have done is hold people back from being what they have the ability to be.

In the international arena, conservatives trust in themselves and in America and the American people. Conservatives don't think that America needs to sit in the corner and wait for some sleepy eyed European to give us their nod of approval. No! We are right! Our moves may not always be popular, but we follow our logic and our morals and we do what we believe to be right. America must take care of America and Americans first.

The people liked this message and they spat back the same old liberal Democratic mush.

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by jccbin
huh?

Liberalism is the surrender to emotionalism, not conservatism.

Liberalism is all about making the liberal fell better about himself, whether it helps the populace or not.

Conservatism is about helping people grow and become better by demanding that people live up to their potential.

This just proves how out of touch we are with what words really mean. We've assigned values to "liberal" and "conservative" that have nothing to do with the real meanings of liberal and conservative. We've managed to co-opt our language, how we communicate with emotional ideas, moral relativism and irrational semantics.

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by rok
i speak for the dead as much as you do...

Is that referring to all of the cemetery precincts that went squarely for Gore? Gore won the dead Native American vote. :lol:

At least Kerry didn't court the dead vote like Gore. He courted the theatrical vote: Mary Poppins, et al. :lol:

[dmz]

Originally posted by johnq
Showing me tallys of the blind doesn't convince me otherwise.



You know I know exactly what you mean, when when the left's darling Micheal Moore's talking points are THE SAME as Osama Bin Laden, when

members of Hezbollah ‘have asked us if there’s any way they could support the film. [ed. Farenheit 911]

It might just be time to get a handle on where this seamless hatred is coming from.

Nice -- more grace, less hatred people!

[Jubelum]

<opens trumpet case, plays "Fanfare for the Common Man">

It's morning in America!

[rok]

Originally posted by Common Man
Conservatives support self-sufficiency. Conservatives want to empower people to stand up on their own feet and succeed. Conservatives have confidence in people. The Democrats for a very long time have ridden the "we will take care of you" wagon. They have used this to capture the blue color and especially the minority vote. This is outdated. Today's men and woman of color want to achieve and cut out their own slice of pie. They don't want to eat the kitchen scraps that the Democrats give them for their vote. I’m so tired of the Democrats with their " you poor people we will help you line". All that the Democrats have done is hold people back from being what they have the ability to be.

In the international arena, conservatives trust in themselves and in America and the American people. Conservatives don't think that America needs to sit in the corner and wait for some sleepy eyed European to give us their nod of approval. No! We are right! Our moves may not always be popular, but we follow our logic and our morals and we do what we believe to be right. America must take care of America and Americans first.

The people liked this message and they spat back the same old liberal Democratic mush.

look, common man, for as much as i have disagreed with you on these boards, i think you have matured int he span of your attendance. and i think you speak rightly on several counts. and i agree that america must take care of america first.

but i, like many, don't think that taking out saddam and gettign stuck in iraq was looking out for america. the evidence keeps piling up that it wasn't even right. in fact, it seemed at the font end, and after the fact, to be the emotionally right thing to do. and we do have to recognize that, while we don't have to listen to others int he world, we have to respect the fact that we have to live with them. you may work with asses, but telling them off is not exactly key to job security.

the democratic party has now officially painted itself into a corner that may take a generationt o get out of. no campaign can be run now without taking a negative "what's wrong with america" stance, which never works well, and only adds to the division.

the one bright spot here that i can think is that kerry would have had an impossible task getting ANYthing done with the republican held house, senate and congress, and would have been viewed in 2008 as a stonewaller incapable of making any real progress. as bill maher told dean, "the best thing for you is is w wins. you're young, and people's memories are stupidly short, and you'll have four more years to make a case." but honestly, if mccain runs in 2008, the democrats may as well wait ANOTHER 8 years...

[Aquatic]

I hate America and am going to move to Canada when I graduate.

[Relic]

Originally posted by Common Man
The people have spoken. America is turning to the right and returning to our Christian values. We are rejecting the secular European socialist ways of thinking. The people made a stand yesterday. The President has a vote of support. The people like what he is doing. I know that is hard for the left that spent its time and money ranting about the President and why we should all hate him. Truth is we like him and we like the things he does.

It's funny; my forefathers left Europe to America to escape religious persecution and regain a little more rights for the individual. Two hundred sum years later I left America to return to Europe to escape religious (liberal ideas) persecution and regain a little more rights for the individual.

George Bush is not a Christian he is a Christian Fascist, using Christian ideology as a front, an Elitist. He doesn’t give two shits about the American people and is creating a world of apathy and fear. How people follow him or get inspired by his dribble is beyond me, his speech skills are those of a dyslexic 12 year old. HE WILL NOT MAKE AMERICA SAFIER! If anything, he is the poster child for future terrorist joiners and leaders. He is fighting evil with evil, which will create more “ EVIL“.

No use continuing the choice is made; I'll just pray you or your kids aren’t one of those who get randomly picked for the draft. Yes draft, with US looking at Iran next you can’t trust are already thinned out troops to cope.

[Gene Clean]

Originally posted by Jubelum
Do you?

Here's the clue stick back atcha... a REPUBLICAN ended slavery in the US.

Yes, a REPUBLICAN freed my peeps!

:smokey:


After REPUBLICANS fought a war known as THE CIVIL WAR.

And Stalin liberal? Who's comiing to the bookstore with me? I'm gonna go and buy 58 million dictionaries for jccbin and other satellites.

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by Aquatic
I hate America and am going to move to Canada when I graduate.

Need help with the bus fare?
Let me know.

Please, when you go, take Michael Moore back with you. We're done with him. Thanks.

[Relic]

Originally posted by Jubelum
Do you?

Here's the clue stick back atcha... a REPUBLICAN ended slavery in the US.

Yes, a REPUBLICAN freed my peeps!

:smokey:

Lincoln was the Commander in Chief when the horrible acts of the “Long Walk” were perpetrated on the Navajo. The entire campaign against the Indian was to make safe passage for the railroads and secure the land for population. Lincoln was the chief lawyer for many of the railroads before he was elected president.

Lincoln also presided over the largest mass execution of American Indians with the hanging of the Santee Sioux in Minnesota.

He freed slaves yes, it was probably to make amends for helping wipe out another though.

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by Relic
Lincoln was the Commander in Chief when the horrible acts of the “Long Walk” were perpetrated on the Navajo. The entire campaign against the Indian was to make safe passage for the railroads and secure the land for population. Lincoln was the chief lawyer for many of the railroads before he was elected president.

Lincoln also presided over the largest mass execution of American Indians with the hanging of the Santee Sioux in Minnesota.

He freed slaves yes, it was probably to make amends for helping wipe out another though.

An excellent point I concede.


(Kerry is conceding as we speak...)

[dfiler]

I too am ashamed and angered by what America is doing in Iraq. That alone was enough for me to vote against Bush. Unfortunately, most American voters are clueless about how bad Bush's decision was to invade of Iraq. They simply don't understand that tens of thousands of civilians are dieing. These civilians have millions of friends and relatives... who now are willing to die while fighting America's empirialism.

The war in Iraq was unjustified from the start and the whole world knew this except for us. Now we see that they were right, inspections were keeping Sadam in check and an invasion of Iraq would actually create more instability and terrorism.

I hope that history is kind to us but right now it looks like we are this generation's evil empire. We are the war mongers invading and occupying other countries, countries that have never attacked us. Since Tom Brokah wrote a book called 'The Greateset Generation' maybe he'll do a sequal, 'The Worst Generation'.

To the rest of the world, I appologize for my country's actions.

Hopefully we won't keep up the trend of invading any country that might someday possible be a threat maybe.

[tonton]

Originally posted by Jubelum
Do you?

Here's the clue stick back atcha... a REPUBLICAN ended slavery in the US.

Yes, a REPUBLICAN freed my peeps!

:smokey:

Uh once again. Clue, meet stick.

Lincoln was a Republican, and guess what... a LIBERAL!!! **Gasp**

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by dfiler

To the rest of the world, I appologize for my country's actions.


To the rest of the voters, we on AI apologize for dfiler's post.

[7E7]

Originally posted by Relic
It's funny; my forefathers left Europe to America to escape religious persecution and regain a little more rights for the individual. Two hundred sum years later I left America to return to Europe to escape religious (liberal ideas) persecution and regain a little more rights for the individual.

George Bush is not a Christian he is a Christian Fascist, using Christian ideology as a front, an Elitist. He doesn’t give two shits about the American people and is creating a world of apathy and fear. How people follow him or get inspired by his dribble is beyond me, his speech skills are those of a dyslexic 12 year old. HE WILL NOT MAKE AMERICA SAFIER! If anything, he is the poster child for future terrorist joiners and leaders. He is fighting evil with evil, which will create more “ EVIL“.

No use continuing the choice is made; I'll just pray you or your kids aren’t one of those who get randomly picked for the draft. Yes draft, with US looking at Iran next you can’t trust are already thinned out troops to cope.

Get a clue man. There is not a single solitary thing that you said that is true. Quit crying and get your head out of the sand and be realistic because you really look foolish right now. Can't Democrats lose with any grace at all?

[Relic]

Originally posted by 7E7
Get a clue man. There is not a single solitary thing that you said that is true. Quit crying and get your head out of the sand and be realistic because you really look foolish right now. Can't Democrats lose with any grace at all?

Can I buy a vowel?
First, I'm not a Democrat; don’t believe in a two party system. Second, this is an Internet board I can be as silly and foolish as I want with little or no sand irritation. Third, I know you are but what am I! :p

[7E7]

Originally posted by dfiler
I too am ashamed and angered by what America is doing in Iraq. That alone was enough for me to vote against Bush. Unfortunately, most American voters are clueless about how bad Bush's decision was to invade of Iraq. They simply don't understand that tens of thousands of civilians are dieing. These civilians have millions of friends and relatives... who now are willing to die while fighting America's empirialism.

The war in Iraq was unjustified from the start and the whole world knew this except for us. Now we see that they were right, inspections were keeping Sadam in check and an invasion of Iraq would actually create more instability and terrorism.

I hope that history is kind to us but right now it looks like we are this generation's evil empire. We are the war mongers invading and occupying other countries, countries that have never attacked us. Since Tom Brokah wrote a book called 'The Greateset Generation' maybe he'll do a sequal, 'The Worst Generation'.

To the rest of the world, I appologize for my country's actions.

Hopefully we won't keep up the trend of invading any country that might someday possible be a threat maybe.

More ridiculous spin. Iraqi citizens support the United States and want to take control of their country back from Saddam Hussein. Why would they keep lining up at military and police recruiting centers even after their colleagues are being killed in these terrorist bombings? They know that terrorism is their enemy too and to that end we are fighting it together.

The bottom line of this election is this. The American people totally rejected the horrible campaign that the Kerry campaign ran. You cannot win an election by lying and distorting what the facts of the situation really are. And you cannot win by an election by only talking about the other candidate without clearly defining what it is you are for. Of course when the candidate is a guy like John Kerry there is now way you can run a campaign that will appeal to most Americans because his record simply is not something that translates beyond his Massachusetts sphere of influence. There were way too many mistakes for them to overcome and the bill came due yesterday.

[rok]

Originally posted by Aquatic
I hate America and am going to move to Canada when I graduate.

but that is so NOT the answer. sure, i could move from louisiana to a state more equal in its party balance, but preaching to the choir, and volunteering as part of the choir, is what is building the wall between people as we speak.

if you care about change, making a blue state more blue (or, to stay non-partisan, red state more red) doesn't help anyone.

[segovius]

Originally posted by 7E7
Iraqi citizens support the United States and want to take control of their country back from Saddam Hussein.

It's unbelievable how nonsensical one simple 18 word statement can be - and in so many wildly varying ways.

I'm on 5 howlers already and still counting....

[Franck]

Jubelum, how could you vote for a so-called christian who invaded Iraq ?

The war is still unjustified. President Bush is accountable/guilty for killing over 1000 US soldiers, and probably more than 100 000 INNOCENT civilians.


Common Man,
Consevatives seem to be proud about their president, because he forces upon the "right" decision against UN and the other countries.

"Conservatives don't think that America needs to sit in the corner and wait for some sleepy eyed European to give us their nod of approval. No! We are right! Our moves may not always be popular, but we follow our logic and our morals and we do what we believe to be right. America must take care of America and Americans first. "

Conservatives seem to be very selfish human beings: you need no approval to kill innocent people ? Of course not. "We are right", all the others are wrong:???:

Saying "We are right" when there's no connection between 9/11 and Iraqi people who were killed is a shame.
US had absolutely NO right to invade Iraq

[Relic]

Originally posted by rok
but that is so NOT the answer. sure, i could move from louisiana to a state more equal in its party balance, but preaching to the choir, and volunteering as part of the choir, is what is building the wall between people as we speak.

if you care about change, making a blue state more blue (or, to stay non-partisan, red state more red) doesn't help anyone.


You should move to Switzerland, It's a great place to live. There's just something about a place where you can role a joint in public with out the fear of persecution. Ooh, what are also great are issues like homo-weddings are left in the hands of the individual Canton (mini-state). We also actually have a health care program with little to no waiting in the hospitals, and the best of part of all is when I’m 60 there will be actual money in my retirement fund.

[Franck]

> You cannot win an election by lying and distorting what the facts of the situation really are.

Of course you can: Mr Bush already won. :err:

[Relic]

Originally posted by Franck
> You cannot win an election by lying and distorting what the facts of the situation really are.

Of course you can: Mr Bush already won. :err:

No fair, you posted before me! :mad:

[Common Man]

Saying "We are right" when there's no connection between 9/11 and Iraqi people who were killed is a shame.
US had absolutely NO right to invade Iraq

When will you understand that Iraq under SH was something that we just could not trust? OBL showed us what a 2 bit cave dweller can do if he left unchecked. We were done playing around with SH. He had to go.

[Anna Mated]

Talk of Conservatives and Christians.

BULLSHIT. There is nothing Conservative or Christian about the Republican Party.

edited by Powerdoc.
Mark UK : you need to relax.

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by Franck
Jubelum, how could you vote for a so-called christian who invaded Iraq ?

The war is still unjustified. President Bush is accountable/guilty for killing over 1000 US soldiers, and probably more than 100 000 INNOCENT civilians.



Give me a reliable source for 100 000 innocent civilians dead. Does that include "innocent civilians" with RPGs? I cannot find a single liberal to give me reliable source for 100K

Man, we really fscked up that country.... Electricity is now more widely available than before the war. Iraq has a stable currency and banks are thriving. Schools and clinics have been renovated and reopened, and power plants, hospitals, water and sanitation facilities, and bridges are being rehabilitated.

[Anna Mated]

Originally posted by Anna Mated


edited by Powerdoc.
Mark UK : you need to relax.

WHAT IS WRONG NOW?

I am attacking Ideas not specific individuals, which is what it says in the posting guidelines.

[rok]

Originally posted by Jubelum
Give me a reliable source for 100 000 innocent civilians dead. Does that include "innocent civilians" with RPGs? I cannot find a single liberal to give me reliable source for 100K

Man, we really fscked up that country.... Electricity is now more widely available than before the war. Iraq has a stable currency and banks are thriving. Schools and clinics have been renovated and reopened, and power plants, hospitals, water and sanitation facilities, and bridges are being rehabilitated.

god, you make it sound like paradise! what have i been thinking??? yet... something tells me you wouldn't take a free paid vacation over there to help out any time soon, either.

[Randycat99]

The remarks in this topic give such an ironic highlight to the unceasing accusations here of the right being so "black & white", binary, fervent perveyors of fear-mongering.

The left really needs to take a look at themselves. Is it really something they like? For every negative characterization they level upon their opponent, they seem to do it 10x worse themself with not a lick of humility. ...and then when reality gives them a lesson that things are not what they were so confident to assume, they manage to still be obstinate, and simply bemoan how everybody else that opposes them is still wrong. There is simply no endgame to their self-reinforcing delusion of what the majority feels is ultimately right. (sorry for the pun) I don't subscribe to either side to align my views, but I know for sure that the left has succeeded in thoroughly repulsing me for all the ugliness, deceit, and hypocracy they have shown.

[New]

Originally posted by Randycat99
The remarks in this topic give such an ironic highlight to the unceasing accusations here of the right being so "black & white", binary, etc.

The left really needs to take a look at themselves. Is it really something they like? For every negative characterization they level upon their opponent, they seem to do it 10x worse themself with not a lick of humility. ...and then when reality gives them a lesson that things are not what they were so confident to assume, they manage to still be obstinate, and simply bemoan how everybody else that opposes them is still wrong. There is simply no endgame to their self-reinforcing delusion of what the majority feels is ultimately right. (sorry for the pun)

I think this is a normal raction when all logic is thrown out the window...

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by rok
god, you make it sound like paradise! what have i been thinking??? yet... something tells me you wouldn't take a free paid vacation over there to help out any time soon, either.

I have, jackass. Four months. It was a paid vacation. WELL PAID. With YOUR TAX DOLLARS.

[Common Man]

ouch!


lol

[jccbin]

A little real history for the noneducated on this list.

20th and 21st century liberalism in the USA is ENTIRELY based upon the doctrines of Communism, not upon the general definition of "liberalism."

Stalin is the ultimate Liberal (to American liberals) since he was the ultimate communist.

Liberalism, as the general dictionaries define it, is what the Europeans might call Progressivism or Liberal Democracy. MANY, MANY US citizens rightfully would fall into these categories. But they have been co-opted by the chiildren of the Comintern - the current Democratic Leadership.

Make no mistake: the Democratic Leadership in the USA is fully formed from the Communist/Socialist mold, NOT from the progressive mold. They would enslave every citizen for their own benefit if they could make it happen. (And this is what The Second Amendment prevents, BTW.)

Most Americans are classically liberal at heart: They believe in individual liberty and individual responsibility, with as small a government as possible to prevent that government from taking away the rights of the people.

The so-called gay marriage amendments are the result of 70 years of Communistic-liberal growth of government: The government imposed restrictions on inheritance, tax liability, and other things so that benefits innure to legally married couples. Individuals and groups have the right to not agree with homosexuality and to not support it. There would be no problem with "gay marriage" if government-sanctioned regulations (such as those which govern insurance) did not demand that couples be married legally to get mutual benefits.

If the argument is over equal treatment, then the government is at fault, not those who wish to protect their individual rights to disagree with homosexuality. The over-large government created the problem by assigning the requirement of marriage through its millions of regulations.

If the argument is just trying to take "marriage" away from its religious meaning, then the homosexual lobby is at fault. Are they trying to become part of these religions? Religious freedom is 100% guaranteed in the U.S. Even religions that worship evil are protected. While the anti-theists want to destroy religion, the atheists want to make everyone worship their "god:" an empty hole. Religions are not like country clubs: you cannot force them to let you in if you don't follow their doctrine. And the doctrine is that marriage is a heterosexual thing. Not a gay thing. I'm all for gays and lesbians getting all the secular benefits of marriage. I'd like to see roommates be able to inherit property without taxes, even. But to force every religion to recognize gay marriage? That's too much, and too fast.

Liberalism must be destroyed.

[Randycat99]

Originally posted by New
I think this is a normal raction when all logic is thrown out the window...

...or just sour-grapes-induced spin. Logic is the last thing to associate with the left at this point. It's ridiculous. Can't they just quietly go down with their sinking ship, instead of whining how awful the world is since they cannot have their way? They cannot even lose gracefully, as high-minded they claim to be (quite frequently, I might add).

[ast3r3x]

I strongly supported and voted Kerry.

To all of you who didn't vote for Kerry, I only have this to say to you...

I hope nothing bad will happen to this country, or anyone anywhere because of terrorists, I pray for the best, and I hope I am wrong about what I think Bush will do to this country, but anyone who didn't vote for Kerry, I hold you personally responsible for the actions of Bush for the next 4 years.

It doesn't matter if the outcome is bad or good, but you are responsible, and know that you are just as responsible for it going bad as you are for it going good.

I couldn't wish to be more wrong, so I wish you the best of luck I can.

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by ast3r3x
but anyone who didn't vote for Kerry, I hold you personally responsible for the actions of Bush for the next 4 years.

It doesn't matter if the outcome is bad or good, but you are responsible, and know that you are just as responsible for it going bad as you are for it going good.



Does that mean we are grounded for a week and can't use the car?
Shyt.


:no:

[New]

Originally posted by jccbin
A little real history for the noneducated on this list.

20th and 21st century liberalism in the USA is ENTIRELY based upon the doctrines of Communism, not upon the general definition of "liberalism."

Stalin is the ultimate Liberal (to American liberals) since he was the ultimate communist.

Liberalism, as the general dictionaries define it, is what the Europeans might call Progressivism or Liberal Democracy. MANY, MANY US citizens rightfully would fall into these categories. But they have been co-opted by the chiildren of the Comintern - the current Democratic Leadership.

Make no mistake: the Democratic Leadership in the USA is fully formed from the Communist/Socialist mold, NOT from the progressive mold. They would enslave every citizen for their own benefit if they could make it happen. (And this is what The Second Amendment prevents, BTW.)

Most Americans are classically liberal at heart: They believe in individual liberty and individual responsibility, with as small a government as possible to prevent that government from taking away the rights of the people.

The so-called gay marriage amendments are the result of 70 years of Communistic-liberal growth of government: The government imposed restrictions on inheritance, tax liability, and other things so that benefits innure to legally married couples. Individuals and groups have the right to not agree with homosexuality and to not support it. There would be no problem with "gay marriage" if government-sanctioned regulations (such as those which govern insurance) did not demand that couples be married legally to get mutual benefits.

If the argument is over equal treatment, then the government is at fault, not those who wish to protect their individual rights to disagree with homosexuality. The over-large government created the problem by assigning the requirement of marriage through its millions of regulations.

If the argument is just trying to take "marriage" away from its religious meaning, then the homosexual lobby is at fault. Are they trying to become part of these religions? Religious freedom is 100% guaranteed in the U.S. Even religions that worship evil are protected. While the anti-theists want to destroy religion, the atheists want to make everyone worship their "god:" an empty hole. Religions are not like country clubs: you cannot force them to let you in if you don't follow their doctrine. And the doctrine is that marriage is a heterosexual thing. Not a gay thing. I'm all for gays and lesbians getting all the secular benefits of marriage. I'd like to see roommates be able to inherit property without taxes, even. But to force every religion to recognize gay marriage? That's too much, and too fast.

Liberalism must be destroyed.

Your fucking crazy...

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by New
Your fucking crazy...

YOU'RE fucking confusing YOUR homonyms. :lol:

[New]

Originally posted by Jubelum
YOU'RE fucking confusing YOUR homonyms. :lol:

Well, I'm luckily not american... :lol: right back at you...

[Anna Mated]

Originally posted by jccbin
A little real history for the noneducated on this list.

[snip]

NOTE: This was too long, Dont be an ass and suggest I get moderated because I changed a blockquote, mmmmkay!



Dear Lord.

Please protect me from your followers. Better still, when its not too much trouble - can you rapture them as soon as you find the time

Amen.

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by Anna Mated
Dear Lord.

Please protect me from your followers. Better still, when its not too much trouble - can you rapture them as soon as you find the time

Amen.

:lol:

[Powerdoc]

Originally posted by jccbin
A little real history for the noneducated on this list.

20th and 21st century liberalism in the USA is ENTIRELY based upon the doctrines of Communism, not upon the general definition of "liberalism."

Stalin is the ultimate Liberal (to American liberals) since he was the ultimate communist.

Liberalism, as the general dictionaries define it, is what the Europeans might call Progressivism or Liberal Democracy. MANY, MANY US citizens rightfully would fall into these categories. But they have been co-opted by the chiildren of the Comintern - the current Democratic Leadership.

Make no mistake: the Democratic Leadership in the USA is fully formed from the Communist/Socialist mold, NOT from the progressive mold. They would enslave every citizen for their own benefit if they could make it happen. (And this is what The Second Amendment prevents, BTW.)

Most Americans are classically liberal at heart: They believe in individual liberty and individual responsibility, with as small a government as possible to prevent that government from taking away the rights of the people.

The so-called gay marriage amendments are the result of 70 years of Communistic-liberal growth of government: The government imposed restrictions on inheritance, tax liability, and other things so that benefits innure to legally married couples. Individuals and groups have the right to not agree with homosexuality and to not support it. There would be no problem with "gay marriage" if government-sanctioned regulations (such as those which govern insurance) did not demand that couples be married legally to get mutual benefits.

If the argument is over equal treatment, then the government is at fault, not those who wish to protect their individual rights to disagree with homosexuality. The over-large government created the problem by assigning the requirement of marriage through its millions of regulations.

If the argument is just trying to take "marriage" away from its religious meaning, then the homosexual lobby is at fault. Are they trying to become part of these religions? Religious freedom is 100% guaranteed in the U.S. Even religions that worship evil are protected. While the anti-theists want to destroy religion, the atheists want to make everyone worship their "god:" an empty hole. Religions are not like country clubs: you cannot force them to let you in if you don't follow their doctrine. And the doctrine is that marriage is a heterosexual thing. Not a gay thing. I'm all for gays and lesbians getting all the secular benefits of marriage. I'd like to see roommates be able to inherit property without taxes, even. But to force every religion to recognize gay marriage? That's too much, and too fast.

Liberalism must be destroyed.

Funny, one of the very rare french politician who was for Bush and claimed it was Madelin. And Madelin claim to be a liberal.

I think that you have a strange definition of liberal

I will give you a golden award for this one :
Stalin is the ultimate Liberal (to American liberals) since he was the ultimate communist.
:no: :lol:

[FormerLurker]

Originally posted by Powerdoc
I think that you have a strange definition of liberal

I will give you a golden award for this one :
Stalin is the ultimate Liberal (to American liberals) since he was the ultimate communist.
:no: :lol: Apparently, he snuck into DNC HQ and found the secret hidden meeting room with Stalin's portrait on the wall, bearing the caption Our Hero.

[BuonRotto]

Stalin is actually the ultimate facist. His rule represents the link, the point where the two edges of the political spectrum wrap around and touch. Stalin took the communist ideal of people with (forced) absolute equality and transformed them into the anonymous masses of fascist totalitarianism. He isn't the ultimate communist, but he used communism to rise to power and used it as a means to control the masses. Like Orwell said, everyone is greated equal, but some were created more equal than others. Stalin holds a special place in political science. Can we get past that part now?

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by BuonRotto
Stalin is actually the ultimate facist. His rule represents the link, the point where the two edges of the political spectrum wrap around and touch. Stalin took the communist ideal of people with (forced) absolute equality and transformed them into the anonymous masses of fascist totalitarianism. He isn't the ultimate communist, but he used communism to rise to power and used it as a means to control the masses. Like Orwell said, everyone is greated equal, but some were created more equal than others. Stalin holds a special place in political science. Can we get past that part now?

Buon gets it. Why can't all of you...?

Thanks for putting that better than I have ever heard it said in any political science class. Well done.

8)

[Ra]

First of all, wrt to Lincoln freeing the slaves: Lincoln didn't care about slavery one way or the other, he only freed the slaves because he thought it would help save the Union. Anyone who's studied U.S. history should know this.

Originally posted by 7E7
More ridiculous spin. Iraqi citizens support the United States and want to take control of their country back from Saddam Hussein. Why would they keep lining up at military and police recruiting centers even after their colleagues are being killed in these terrorist bombings? They know that terrorism is their enemy too and to that end we are fighting it together. Wrong, Iraqi citizens want to take control of their country back from US. They're lining up at military and police recruiting centers because they CAN'T FIND WORK. But insurgents are attacking US because because they want US to get the hell out.

[Randycat99]

Kerry meets Gore in 2004?

Eh? Eh?? :p

Kerry addresses people: Spin is on the way...

[7E7]

Originally posted by ast3r3x
I strongly supported and voted Kerry.

To all of you who didn't vote for Kerry, I only have this to say to you...

I hope nothing bad will happen to this country, or anyone anywhere because of terrorists, I pray for the best, and I hope I am wrong about what I think Bush will do to this country, but anyone who didn't vote for Kerry, I hold you personally responsible for the actions of Bush for the next 4 years.

It doesn't matter if the outcome is bad or good, but you are responsible, and know that you are just as responsible for it going bad as you are for it going good.

I couldn't wish to be more wrong, so I wish you the best of luck I can.

See what you all have become? This negative discourse is what has turned off so many Americans. This thread started off by somebody asking for forgiveness for those who voted for Bush. I don't need your forgiveness so don't apologize for me. That is very insulting to me and everyone else who see the world differently and it is not your place to make such an apology. Why can't you people just disagree without being so arrogant and condescending? It is that arrogant attitude that turns off so many people.

[New]

Originally posted by 7E7
See what you all have become? This negative discourse is what has turned off so many Americans. This thread started off by somebody asking for forgiveness for those who voted for Bush. I don't need your forgiveness so don't apologize for me. That is very insulting to me and everyone else who see the world differently and it is not your place to make such an apology. Why can't you people just disagree without being so arrogant and condescending? It is that arrogant attitude that turns off so many people.

anyway... I forgive you... ;)

[jccbin]

I'll throw this in:

America is NOT its government. It is its people, all immigrants from backgrounds going back tens of thousands of years. From the American Indians who emigrated here across the Bering Strait to those who cross the Rio Grande illegally, this nation is unique in all the world.

The USA is the world's oldest functioning democracy.

The USA is the only nation to save the world from European evil, twice.

The USA is the only superpower guided by a moral compass and not by political greed. Make no mistake, if the USA were evil, the world would be enslaved under our nuclear thumb.

Sometimes poltical opportunists get power here. Sometimes they become president or majority leader or a Joint Chiefs General. Sometimes, like our previous president, they think they can sell their pardons and sexually abuse their staffs. Sometimes they think they can spy on the other party (like Nixon did).

But the thing you all need to keep in mind is that these 280 million people have never, ever slipped into tyranny like you Europeans. They have never, ever embarked on empire building like you dear Europeans.

Why?

Because the people control the government. The media does not. The elite do not. The so-called intelligentsia do not. The common man and woman, through their vote and their firearms, keep the potential madmen in check and dare the overzealous general to mount a coup.

Moderation is an ending point, not a starting point.

Liberalism must be destroyed.

[rok]

Originally posted by ast3r3x
I strongly supported and voted Kerry.

To all of you who didn't vote for Kerry, I only have this to say to you...

I hope nothing bad will happen to this country, or anyone anywhere because of terrorists, I pray for the best, and I hope I am wrong about what I think Bush will do to this country, but anyone who didn't vote for Kerry, I hold you personally responsible for the actions of Bush for the next 4 years.

It doesn't matter if the outcome is bad or good, but you are responsible, and know that you are just as responsible for it going bad as you are for it going good.

I couldn't wish to be more wrong, so I wish you the best of luck I can.

i was just thinking that, over the next four years, the republicans MIGHT have done themselves a big disservice. why? because there are NO MORE EXCUSES. any problems, any disasters, any unrest, any failed programs are their fault, because nothing stands in their way. republican held congress, house, senate, and one or two new supreme court appointees? edit: by the way, to all you republicans, i will also say this... you will reap all of the rewards as well, if everythign turns out great.

sometimes being the monolithic monopoly of power can be a real bitch as all eyes turn on you. just ask microsoft.

[rok]

Originally posted by 7E7
See what you all have become? This negative discourse is what has turned off so many Americans. This thread started off by somebody asking for forgiveness for those who voted for Bush. I don't need your forgiveness so don't apologize for me. That is very insulting to me and everyone else who see the world differently and it is not your place to make such an apology. Why can't you people just disagree without being so arrogant and condescending? It is that arrogant attitude that turns off so many people.

wow, you took a comment that was intended to be an even handed "you have the reigns" admission, and somehow twisted it into "negative discourse"? and like i said before, this is not some friendly sports rivalry where people can cheer, boo, and disagree at the end of the day, because this sh!t affects out lives every waking and unwaking minute.

i think we all know where the arrogance label needs to be applied.

[Anna Mated]

Originally posted by 7E7
See what you all have become? This negative discourse is what has turned off so many Americans. This thread started off by somebody asking for forgiveness for those who voted for Bush. I don't need your forgiveness so don't apologize for me. That is very insulting to me and everyone else who see the world differently and it is not your place to make such an apology. Why can't you people just disagree without being so arrogant and condescending? It is that arrogant attitude that turns off so many people.

This seems to be turning into the classic

'I'll fight and have big words, scream and rant, I'll cheat and lie, deceive and divide, I'm right and you're wrong because it says so in the Bible.'

and when you get what you want and everyone hates you

'I'm humble, insulted, persecuted for my faith, victimized, just want to live in peace. Dont understand why you hate me'

I see who you (collective context) are.

[New]

Originally posted by rok
i was just thinking that, over the next four years, the republicans MIGHT have done themselves a big disservice. why? because there are NO MORE EXCUSES. any problems, any disasters, any unrest, any failed programs are their fault, because nothing stands in their way. republican held congress, house, senate, and one or two new supreme court appointees?

sometimes being the monolithic monopoly of power can be a real bitch as all eyes turn on you. just ask microsoft.

Oh, but everything's gonna turn into milk and honny now... don't you get it?

[ast3r3x]

Originally posted by 7E7
See what you all have become? This negative discourse is what has turned off so many Americans. This thread started off by somebody asking for forgiveness for those who voted for Bush. I don't need your forgiveness so don't apologize for me. That is very insulting to me and everyone else who see the world differently and it is not your place to make such an apology. Why can't you people just disagree without being so arrogant and condescending? It is that arrogant attitude that turns off so many people.

Why would you quote my post but talk about the opening post. Kinda silly.

See what you have become? Your positive discourse about how well things are going is what turns the world off. This thread started as a message from non Bush supporters to the rest of the world, but you for some reason felt it was your business to come and show to the rest of the world why Bush won. Thanks I guess, although your pretty annoying.

[Anna Mated]

Originally posted by jccbin
I'll throw this in:

America is NOT its government. It is its people, all immigrants from backgrounds going back tens of thousands of years. From the American Indians who emigrated here across the Bering Strait to those who cross the Rio Grande illegally, this nation is unique in all the world.

The USA is the world's oldest functioning democracy.

The USA is the only nation to save the world from European evil, twice.

The USA is the only superpower guided by a moral compass and not by political greed. Make no mistake, if the USA were evil, the world would be enslaved under our nuclear thumb.

Sometimes poltical opportunists get power here. Sometimes they become president or majority leader or a Joint Chiefs General. Sometimes, like our previous president, they think they can sell their pardons and sexually abuse their staffs. Sometimes they think they can spy on the other party (like Nixon did).

But the thing you all need to keep in mind is that these 280 million people have never, ever slipped into tyranny like you Europeans. They have never, ever embarked on empire building like you dear Europeans.

Why?

Because the people control the government. The media does not. The elite do not. The so-called intelligentsia do not. The common man and woman, through their vote and their firearms, keep the potential madmen in check and dare the overzealous general to mount a coup.

Moderation is an ending point, not a starting point.

Liberalism must be destroyed.

WOW :wow: :wow: :wow: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[johnq]

The world isn't enslaved under our nuclear thumb? Hm. Alright sir. Wild, wacky stuff.

(It's nuculer, by the way, for four more years).

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by johnq
The world isn't enslaved under our nuclear thumb? Hm. Alright sir. Wild, wacky stuff.

(It's nuculer, by the way, for four more years).


Yea, we have NO RIGHT to have a strong national defense! IT'S NOT FAIR!

http://mcdb.colorado.edu/courses/3280/images/sleep/tantrum.gif

:rolleyes:

[jccbin]

QUOTE:The world isn't enslaved under our nuclear thumb?

I think you have a very weak definition of slavery if you think they are enslaved under our nuclear thumb.

:-)

[segovius]

Originally posted by jccbin
A little real history for the noneducated on this list.

20th and 21st century liberalism in the USA is ENTIRELY based upon the doctrines of Communism, not upon the general definition of "liberalism."

Stalin is the ultimate Liberal (to American liberals) since he was the ultimate communist.

Liberalism, as the general dictionaries define it, is what the Europeans might call Progressivism or Liberal Democracy. MANY, MANY US citizens rightfully would fall into these categories. But they have been co-opted by the chiildren of the Comintern - the current Democratic Leadership.

Make no mistake: the Democratic Leadership in the USA is fully formed from the Communist/Socialist mold, NOT from the progressive mold. They would enslave every citizen for their own benefit if they could make it happen. (And this is what The Second Amendment prevents, BTW.)

Most Americans are classically liberal at heart: They believe in individual liberty and individual responsibility, with as small a government as possible to prevent that government from taking away the rights of the people.

The so-called gay marriage amendments are the result of 70 years of Communistic-liberal growth of government: The government imposed restrictions on inheritance, tax liability, and other things so that benefits innure to legally married couples. Individuals and groups have the right to not agree with homosexuality and to not support it. There would be no problem with "gay marriage" if government-sanctioned regulations (such as those which govern insurance) did not demand that couples be married legally to get mutual benefits.

If the argument is over equal treatment, then the government is at fault, not those who wish to protect their individual rights to disagree with homosexuality. The over-large government created the problem by assigning the requirement of marriage through its millions of regulations.

If the argument is just trying to take "marriage" away from its religious meaning, then the homosexual lobby is at fault. Are they trying to become part of these religions? Religious freedom is 100% guaranteed in the U.S. Even religions that worship evil are protected. While the anti-theists want to destroy religion, the atheists want to make everyone worship their "god:" an empty hole. Religions are not like country clubs: you cannot force them to let you in if you don't follow their doctrine. And the doctrine is that marriage is a heterosexual thing. Not a gay thing. I'm all for gays and lesbians getting all the secular benefits of marriage. I'd like to see roommates be able to inherit property without taxes, even. But to force every religion to recognize gay marriage? That's too much, and too fast.

Liberalism must be destroyed.

Fellow posters - we're witnessing the birth of a legend.

And I just found my new sig.

[segovius]

Originally posted by Jubelum
Yea, we have NO RIGHT to have a strong national defense! IT'S NOT FAIR!


Hold on - isn't that the line for non-American (yet) countries ?

[Anna Mated]

Originally posted by segovius
Fellow posters - we're witnessing the birth of a legend.


I think its Common Man.

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by segovius
Hold on - isn't that the line for non-American (yet) countries ?

Shhhhh... we're getting to that. Starting with WalMarts and McDonalds. Eventually we will own it all. Like Monopoly without the cheating relative.

:smokey:

[New]

Originally posted by Anna Mated
I think its Common Man. so do I, he just built up the nerve to creep out of his shell...

[dmz]

I think there's enough bitterness and condescension on this forum alone to bring back Sam Kinison from the dead. You lefties scare the bejeezus out me. Frothing at the mouths about how intelligent and 'open-minded' you all are.

Dammitt!!! You WILL BE open minded!! You WILL believe that gay sex and pornography are the cornerstones of Society!!! REPENT!!! REPENT!!!

Really.

[Common Man]

Ha? Not me.

[rok]

Originally posted by Jubelum
Shhhhh... we're getting to that. Starting with WalMarts and McDonalds. Eventually we will own it all. Like Monopoly without the cheating relative.

:smokey:

nah. you forgot our greatest export to the rest of the world... Windows! just get all of these countries modernized and dependent on the technology, with the promise of joining us and our strong economy, then make sure you tell redmond to leave a backdoor (well, okay, one more than usual... where the president has the key). no need for nukes. just call any world leader getting out of line and tell 'em you'll plunge them into the dark ages with one keystroke if they keep misbehaving...

no muss. no fuss.

where is my tinfoil hat? ;)

[Common Man]

I will make a few comments while I'm here. I have a little advice for the Dem leadership: Don't scoff at The Common Man. You lost the election because you failed to connect with The Common Man. The President was vulnurable, but you could not take advantage of his weakness. The average American is not a religious zealot, but he won't support you if he thinks that you are mocking his faith or his intelligance. The Dem leadership aimed this campaign at the elite left, not at The Common Man. You turned The Common Man away when you needed him. The Dem leadership and strategy planners lost this election for you.

[Jubelum]

Originally posted by Common Man
I will make a few comments while I'm here. I have a little advice for the Dem leadership: Don't scoff at The Common Man. You lost the election because you failed to connect with The Common Man. The President was vulnurable, but you could not take advantage of his weakness. The average American is not a religious zealot, but he won't support you if he thinks that you are mocking his faith or his intelligance. The Dem leadership aimed this campaign at the elete left, not at The Common Man. You turned The Common Man away when you needed him. The Dem leadership and strategy planners lost this election for you.

Oh my god, it's Bob Dole.
(referring to one's self in the third person)

Love ya, CM

[New]

Originally posted by Common Man
I will make a few comments while I'm here. I have a little advice for the Dem leadership: Don't scoff at The Common Man. You lost the election because you failed to connect with The Common Man. The President was vulnurable, but you could not take advantage of his weakness. The average American is not a religious zealot, but he won't support you if he thinks that you are mocking his faith or his intelligance. The Dem leadership aimed this campaign at the elete left, not at The Common Man. You turned The Common Man away when you needed him. The Dem leadership and strategy planners lost this election for you.

I think you've read too much Orson Scott Card, jccbin...

[BuonRotto]

Originally posted by dmz
You WILL believe that gay sex and pornography are the cornerstones of Society!

Ah, thank you for finally answering my questions from before. So you do conflate homosexuality with pornography as well as harbor some paranoid idea of a gay agenda = toppling heterosexual structures. Go it. Nice to know.

(Did I just prove your point about being condescending? I'm really just levelling with what was stated.)

[Randycat99]

Originally posted by New
I think you've read too much Orson Scott Card, jccbin...

I'd say it was right smack on target. :l

[7E7]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ast3r3x
[B]Why would you quote my post but talk about the opening post. Kinda silly.

It was your whole spiel about how you were going to hold Bush supporters personally responsible if some disaster were to happen. I am sorry if you think Bush is leading this country to certain disaster but the majority of Americans don't feel that way. Your arrogant rant linked in nicely with the person who started this topic in the first place. It is that arrogance that anybody who votes for Bush is some sort of dunce and I find that offensive. I don't think Kerry supporters are stupid - misguided perhaps - but I am not going to demonize those who don't fall in with our view of the world. It is just that level of arrogance that so many people out there find so galling.

[Randycat99]

I'd say this fearmongering is just about to the point where they hope disaster happens, just to prove a point.

[addabox]

Jesus.

The reason this feels so bad is not that it's a triumph of "conservative values".
It's not. George Bush is not a conservative, except when Karl Rove tells him to be.

It's a triumph of shear, slack-jawed, self-satisfied stupidity.

Go back and read the posts from the Bush supporters.

They are, for the most part, stupid. I mean ignorant, sloganeering, misinformed, factually wrong, smirking, stupid.

I'm not talking about calling names cause I'm pissed "my guy" lost. I'm talking about the things in this world that are verifiable by sentient beings being held in contempt by people that believe might makes right, that winning is everything, that anything that conflicts with their world view is the product of weak people who are jealous of their power.

I would say the jokes on you, but unfortunately we're all in the same boat.

Bush, by any objective criteria (yes, yes, I know, it's only partisan "spin", that is, the evidence all around us) a terrible president.

Iraq is only going to kill more people (by the way, when are some of you terror warriors going to enlist? Oh, that's right, your values oblige you to have other people do your dirty work. Just like your beloved president.)
Hooray for free elections, and hats off to another Islamist theocracy that hates America. That or a failed state that becomes a safe haven for terrorists.
You have been paying attention, haven't you? No? Oh, that's right, it's been much more fun to brand anyone that tells the truth about what's happening in Iraq a traitor or defeatist or irrational Bush hater.

I wonder how you guys will react when reality actually shoots you in the face? Probably too stupid to fall down.

The deficit is only going to grow. How many of you joyful Bush supporters have children? Fuck 'em, am I right? Paying the debt for your sense of ideology will stiffen their character, I imagine.

How many of you are watching your health care premiums rise? Benefits cut?
I guess Bush will reign in the "trial lawyers" and that will fix it. Oh, did you not get the memo? That was just campaign rhetoric. Lawsuits add only a few percentage points to health care costs. It's really true, and it's easy to verify, but again: stupid. Led by the nose by empty buzz words. Unless you're independently wealthy, it's pretty much a lock that your access to health care will decrease under Bush's second term. Yours and your family's. Good for you. Not being able to afford routine health care for the kids should build character pronto.

But man, terror is on the run. I mean, sure, our ports are more or less undefended, and the enormous budget deficits insure further cuts in things like emergency services and "homeland security", and bin Laden is still out there, and fissionable material is being bandied about like trading cards and Iraq is sucking our resources dry, but that's just loser talk.

Oh, but except it's not, and it's very easy to know exactly how much is being spent on what, and when you look at it you realize Bush isn't at all serious about fighting a war on terror. But that's cool, no attacks on American soil just lately! Must be working! Because we're too fucking stupid to pay attention to the pattern of al Qaeda attacks and we'd rather pump our fists in the air and say nyah nyah nyah to liberals than think about making America more secure in any meaningful fashion. Ha ha, that John Kerry would have had us pass a global test! I don't know what that means either, but it feels so good to stand shoulder to shoulder with people that know a fag when they see one! Yee hah!

And global warming (here's a hint--liberals didn't make it up! We're fucked! Who cares! Rush doesn't!)

And gas prices. And job loss. And the ever widening gap between America's ownership class and everybody else (Brazil, anyone?). And science that can't get done because it's not in the bible.

I'm sure Bush has a plan for them all, that he was keeping in reserve the last four years. Oh yeah. Tax cuts.

And here's the kicker. Everything I've listed is very true, and very evident to anyone willing to simply look at the available evidence. It's not partisan. It's not irrational. It's reality.

But no time for that! Stupidity is on the march! Look at the reality based community cry bitter tears! Ha Ha!

God help us all.

[the cool gut]

Bush : "I'm humbled by the trust and the confidence of my fellow citizens."

The guy wins by 100 000 votes, and thinks he has the "trust and confidence" of the nation.

[Whisper]

Originally posted by the cool gut
Bush : "I'm humbled by the trust and the confidence of my fellow citizens."

The guy wins by 100 000 votes, and thinks he has the "trust and confidence" of the nation. Have they released new figures? Last I heard he'd won by 3.6 million.

[rageous]

Originally posted by the cool gut
Bush : "I'm humbled by the trust and the confidence of my fellow citizens."

The guy wins by 100 000 votes, and thinks he has the "trust and confidence" of the nation.

try again.

[rok]

Originally posted by Whisper
Have they released new figures? Last I heard he'd won by 3.6 million.

i think tcg meant strictly in ohio... which is technically true, considering we put so much emphasis on the last reporting largest state. plus, as george made clear in 2000, it doesn't mean a damn thing if you lose the popular vote, just win the electoral college.

anyway, congrats, w. you had no competition a year ago with a nameless, faceless crew of nine people beheading each other publicly to come after you, you had, i think, the largest campaign war chest of money EVER for a presidential candidate, and you're a sitting war-time president...

...and you STILL managed to have 45% of the nation think your an ass worth tossing out. hell, even the one state that has the biggest reason to require a sense of safety from its president, NEW F'N YORK, voted against you... heavily.

sleep well tonight in that big white house of yours.

[rageous]

addabox's little diatribe is precisely why the democratic party is in trouble in this country.

the idea that republics are idiots and that reminding other democrats that they should be completely outraged by the stupidity of their opponent will not change anything.

anger doesn't win elections. it didn't help republicans in 1996. it didn't help the democrats in 2002 or 2004.

uniting in support of a candidate will win you elections. uniting in disgust for the opposition will fail time and again.

[rageous]

Originally posted by rok
...and you STILL managed to have 45% of the nation think your an ass worth tossing out.

sleep well tonight in that big white house of yours.

That's assuming that everyone who voted Kerry is actually as disdainful of Bush as these forums would lead you to believe. In fact most people who voted for either man don't think the other candidate is an ass, IMO. I suspect most of the country would have been comfortable no matter who was elected, even if they didn't choose the winner themself, as long as the process was not a calamity like in 2000.

[Dylsexic Manupilator]

Originally posted by addabox
Jesus.

The reason this feels so bad is not that it's a triumph of "conservative values".
It's not. George Bush is not a conservative, except when Karl Rove tells him to be.

It's a triumph of shear, slack-jawed, self-satisfied stupidity.

Go back and read the posts from the Bush supporters.

They are, for the most part, stupid. I mean ignorant, sloganeering, misinformed, factually wrong, smirking, stupid.

I'm not talking about calling names cause I'm pissed "my guy" lost. I'm talking about the things in this world that are verifiable by sentient beings being held in contempt by people that believe might makes right, that winning is everything, that anything that conflicts with their world view is the product of weak people who are jealous of their power.

I would say the jokes on you, but unfortunately we're all in the same boat.

Bush, by any objective criteria (yes, yes, I know, it's only partisan "spin", that is, the evidence all around us) a terrible president.

Iraq is only going to kill more people (by the way, when are some of you terror warriors going to enlist? Oh, that's right, your values oblige you to have other people do your dirty work. Just like your beloved president.)
Hooray for free elections, and hats off to another Islamist theocracy that hates America. That or a failed state that becomes a safe haven for terrorists.
You have been paying attention, haven't you? No? Oh, that's right, it's been much more fun to brand anyone that tells the truth about what's happening in Iraq a traitor or defeatist or irrational Bush hater.

I wonder how you guys will react when reality actually shoots you in the face? Probably too stupid to fall down.

The deficit is only going to grow. How many of you joyful Bush supporters have children? Fuck 'em, am I right? Paying the debt for your sense of ideology will stiffen their character, I imagine.

How many of you are watching your health care premiums rise? Benefits cut?
I guess Bush will reign in the "trial lawyers" and that will fix it. Oh, did you not get the memo? That was just campaign rhetoric. Lawsuits add only a few percentage points to health care costs. It's really true, and it's easy to verify, but again: stupid. Led by the nose by empty buzz words. Unless you're independently wealthy, it's pretty much a lock that your access to health care will decrease under Bush's second term. Yours and your family's. Good for you. Not being able to afford routine health care for the kids should build character pronto.

But man, terror is on the run. I mean, sure, our ports are more or less undefended, and the enormous budget deficits insure further cuts in things like emergency services and "homeland security", and bin Laden is still out there, and fissionable material is being bandied about like trading cards and Iraq is sucking our resources dry, but that's just loser talk.

Oh, but except it's not, and it's very easy to know exactly how much is being spent on what, and when you look at it you realize Bush isn't at all serious about fighting a war on terror. But that's cool, no attacks on American soil just lately! Must be working! Because we're too fucking stupid to pay attention to the pattern of al Qaeda attacks and we'd rather pump our fists in the air and say nyah nyah nyah to liberals than think about making America more secure in any meaningful fashion. Ha ha, that John Kerry would have had us pass a global test! I don't know what that means either, but it feels so good to stand shoulder to shoulder with people that know a fag when they see one! Yee hah!

And global warming (here's a hint--liberals didn't make it up! We're fucked! Who cares! Rush doesn't!)

And gas prices. And job loss. And the ever widening gap between America's ownership class and everybody else (Brazil, anyone?). And science that can't get done because it's not in the bible.

I'm sure Bush has a plan for them all, that he was keeping in reserve the last four years. Oh yeah. Tax cuts.

And here's the kicker. Everything I've listed is very true, and very evident to anyone willing to simply look at the available evidence. It's not partisan. It's not irrational. It's reality.

But no time for that! Stupidity is on the march! Look at the reality based community cry bitter tears! Ha Ha!

God help us all.


Sad but true....

I guess i'm still sort of in denial after this utterly dissapointing anti-climax after one of the fiercest campaigns in my ( not so distant, I admit) memories.
It's incredibly hard for me to understand what is blinding so many American voters from the so obvious truth.... Your country, and the whole world actually are in a complete mess! Of course, I know you cannot blame it all on the Bush and his neocons, there's not exactly a shortage of selfing greedy bastards in this world who can mess up things like human rights, social justice,use blind violence, you get the picture...
But the re-election of Bush does bring up a few terrifying questions/problems as Addabox so frighteningly realistically pointed out.

[timmy o'tool]

O.K., I hate GWB, but that’s not the point that has driven me to post. All the problems listed here and elsewhere are worth taking pause, but here is what has me really concerned. How is it possible that a country like ours can be this polarized? I mean when I hear GWB supporters talk I cannot believe that what is an otherwise reasonable person cannot get it. It seems so clear to me, but it's like we come from different planets. When I try to explain, they act like I am speaking Greek. How can half the people in this country feel one way and the other feel the other so strongly that even civil conversation is nearly impossible? I thought GWB was a uniter not a divider. This rift will be our downfall, not GWB or UBL.

[rok]

Originally posted by rageous
That's assuming that everyone who voted Kerry is actually as disdainful of Bush as these forums would lead you to believe. In fact most people who voted for either man don't think the other candidate is an ass, IMO. I suspect most of the country would have been comfortable no matter who was elected, even if they didn't choose the winner themself, as long as the process was not a calamity like in 2000.

well, from the exit poll reports i was hearing (npr), the two highest criteria of people who voted against bush were that they were very upset about the current administration, and that change was regarded as very important to them.

so, no, that 45% really wanted him gone, give or take a few percent.

[ast3r3x]

Originally posted by 7E7
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ast3r3x
[B]Why would you quote my post but talk about the opening post. Kinda silly.

It was your whole spiel about how you were going to hold Bush supporters personally responsible if some disaster were to happen. I am sorry if you think Bush is leading this country to certain disaster but the majority of Americans don't feel that way. Your arrogant rant linked in nicely with the person who started this topic in the first place. It is that arrogance that anybody who votes for Bush is some sort of dunce and I find that offensive. I don't think Kerry supporters are stupid - misguided perhaps - but I am not going to demonize those who don't fall in with our view of the world. It is just that level of arrogance that so many people out there find so galling.

I know because how strongly I supported Kerry and still do that my comments sound insincere and arrogant. What I am saying is that I believe the country is going in the wrong direction by legislating based on articles of faith and forcing your beliefs on others. I don't believe any decision made with Iraq has been the right one and that it's turning into another Vietnam only we started this. The verdict is still out on the economy, but I'm hopeful.

What I am saying, as honestly and sincerely as possible is that I hope Bush's decisions are healthy for the country, even if it means I was wrong.

As far as seeing all Bush supporters as stupid, I don't. I see them as the smart and rich, and the lower income religious people. Are they stupid? No, the thing is a difference of opinion for how the country should be run.

[addabox]

Originally posted by rageous
addabox's little diatribe is precisely why the democratic party is in trouble in this country.

the idea that republics are idiots and that reminding other democrats that they should be completely outraged by the stupidity of their opponent will not change anything.

anger doesn't win elections. it didn't help republicans in 1996. it didn't help the democrats in 2002 or 2004.

uniting in support of a candidate will win you elections. uniting in disgust for the opposition will fail time and again.

The democratic party is in trouble because Republicans have spent the last 40 years building the structure of a partisan reality machine that proffers the most errant nonsense as the bed rock of patriotic truth.

We did unite behind a candidate. The idea that it was all against Bush and not for Kerry is just an artifact of that same machine. Of course, you believe it.

The dems are in the process of building their own reality structure, it just isn't strong enough to overcome the filter of the right wing echo chamber. Kerry probably would have won if the "liberal media" had treated the Swift Boat bullshit with the contempt it deserved. Again, the truth about that sorry episode was easily divined, the information was there, but stupidity carried the day. In a world where facts make any difference, that is indisputable. in contemporary America, it's just who shouts the loudest, longest.

As far as my "little diatribe" (of course it's little, I'm a fag like all my liberal brethren, hissy fits are about the best we can do, nicht war mein herr?),
I'm simply describing the abundantly evident reality of this post election world. You still think it's a game, about "winning", people who are paying attention know we have all lost.

Anger certainly does win elections, it just has to be channeled. Somehow I think there's going to be a lot to go around come the mid terms.

[Randycat99]

...or the addabox mindset is having a problem disbelieving "Day after Tomorrow" is not a "documentary" (ala Michael Moore). WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE, AND I TOLD YOU SO!!!

[addabox]

Originally posted by Randycat99
...or the addabox mindset is having a problem disbelieving "Day after Tomorrow" is not a "documentary" (ala Michael Moore). WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE, AND I TOLD YOU SO!!!


And bioterrorism is no worry because it's been used as a fictional device in movies.

As I said, stupid.

[rageous]

Originally posted by rok
well, from the exit poll reports i was hearing (npr), the two highest criteria of people who voted against bush were that they were very upset about the current administration, and that change was regarded as very important to them.

so, no, that 45% really wanted him gone, give or take a few percent.

Ah yeah, so that must mean they thought he was an ass then.

Newsflash: People who vote for opposition vs. incumbent tend to want to enact change.

None of this suggests deep seeded resentment of the president amongst all opposition voters.