Election Results Listed by Average IQ [Archive]

View Full Version : Election Results Listed by Average IQ

lolo

11-09-2004, 02:26 PM

US Election 2004 Results Listed by Average IQ:

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/US-Election-IQ2004.htm

No big surprise there.

To make it easy for Scott, SDW2001, Frank777, & co., here are a few sample replies:

(a) Fvck you!!
(b) This is total b*llshit!
(c) The election is over, you fvcking moron!
(d) all of the above

segovius

11-09-2004, 02:40 PM

SpcMs

11-09-2004, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by segovius
The highest average is only 113 ? :wow:
Standard IQ tests don't go above 140 (or something like that, depending on age).

segovius

11-09-2004, 02:45 PM

Scrub that - just Googled and found out it's really quite good = European average is 98.

Obviously that's why I found it surprising ;)

Btw - don't these IQ tests suck ? I read somewhere they were very WASP-centric and people who fall outside that demographic are at a disadvantage. Don't know how true it is but education must come into it.

Scott

11-09-2004, 02:57 PM

Is it even posible for the average IQ in any given state to be too far from 100?

trumptman

11-09-2004, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by lolo
US Election 2004 Results Listed by Average IQ:

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/US-Election-IQ2004.htm

No big surprise there.

To make it easy for Scott, SDW2001, Frank777, & co., here are a few sample replies:

(a) Fvck you!!
(b) This is total b*llshit!
(c) The election is over, you fvcking moron!
(d) all of the above

Let me see if I can understand you. You want to take the results from a book called IQ And The Wealth Of Nations, a book that argues that the rich are rich and the poor are poor because they are respectively smart or dumb and use it to justify a lack of vote for progressive politics.

I think you destroyed the previous mark for most ironic post ever.

Nick

BRussell

11-09-2004, 03:03 PM

Nuh-uh. Someone just made those up. There's no way the average IQ of a state is 85, or 113 for that matter. With state populations as large as they are, they won't deviate from 100 by more than a few points.

But it may be true that southern states have lower average IQs than, say, central/midwestern states, but that's because african-americans score lower on IQ-type tests than whites, and southern states have a larger population of african-americans.

BuonRotto

11-09-2004, 03:16 PM

I have to call bullshit on that page.

Where in hell do they get this info? My IQ data isn't exactly part of public record, and it didn't transfer with my voter registration, so maybe my high IQ is being counted in NJ? No, I don't think so. The range is way too large. Remember, people, 100 is considered average IQ BY DEFINITION! You're most likely to find divergence from this number with smaller populations, and even Wyoming and Rhode Island have a big enough pool of residents where, if there were any way to gather this info, the average IQ in the entire state would only differ by a couple of percentage points in the most extreme circumstances. In reality, if you assume that there were some way to find this info, the differences would be a couple of places behind the decimal point. Further, I doubt Mississippi has a retarded population. It's just old stereotypes and wishful thinking you see there.

Don't believe everything you read, especially when it comes from a UK rag.

MarcUK

11-09-2004, 03:16 PM

Anyone done that emode IQ test? I got 136, and I saved the graphic to prove it :D

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by MarcUK
Anyone done that emode IQ test? I got 136, and I saved the graphic to prove it :D

I think that this IQ test was over optimistic. Not because you get 136, but because I get the same result. I have done two othes IQ test : one give me 133, and the other (with time limit) 126.
I think that the truth for me is more 126 than 136 unfortunately.

ast3r3x

11-09-2004, 03:20 PM

I read this posted on another site, which I believe was the original source for this report. He basically said it wasn't true and pointed to a republican site which tried to debunk it.

With a bell curve of 100, I find it hard to believe any state could be 85 or 113. Isn't under 70 mentally retarded?

I will say I think center states (red states) are less informed on some issues the country faces. Less informed doesn't mean stupid though.

BuonRotto

11-09-2004, 03:23 PM

Hate to burst some of your bubbles, but real IQ tests not only take hours to complete, but are a rather faulty measure of intelligence IMO. :) ;)

BRussell

11-09-2004, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by Powerdoc
I think that this IQ test was over optimistic. Not because you get 136, but because I get the same result. I have done two othes IQ test : one give me 133, and the other (with time limit) 126.
I think that the truth for me is more 126 than 136 unfortunately. Hell, if you have an IQ of 126, you're almost certainly the smartest person on AI. Which, granted, isn't saying much. But that's really, really high.

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by BuonRotto
Hate to burst some of your bubbles, but real IQ tests not only take hours to complete, but are a rather faulty measure of intelligence IMO. :) ;)

yes, the emode test, was a trap. They betted in man's vanity in order to make give them some of their bucks ....:D

MarcUK

11-09-2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Powerdoc
yes, the emode test, was a trap. They betted in man's vanity in order to make give them some of their bucks ....:D

which Is why I didn't pay, I usually get 118-122. Oh well.

I guess Im still valid for the "Liberal Elite" ;)

SpcMs

11-09-2004, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by BRussell
Hell, if you have an IQ of 126, you're almost certainly the smartest person on AI. Which, granted, isn't saying much. But that's really, really high.
Actually, according to two official Mensa tests i took (yeah, the hour long ones), mine is even a tad higher. But let me add that this is very much compensated by my inability to remember a stupid phone number, or to stop bragging with my IQ test results ;)

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by BRussell
Hell, if you have an IQ of 126, you're almost certainly the smartest person on AI. Which, granted, isn't saying much. But that's really, really high.

Well that's what I had with a web test (but I have to pay for this one : it was not emode). 126 are not really awesome, some people I know have far better IQ tests.
I think that I am between 120 and 130.
Anyway, in my case it's worthless, I never have to pass any IQ test, or others psychological tests in order to have a job. I am my own boss, and that's why I choose my job.

My father use to work for Pechiney. He was the boss of the place where he work : an engeenering departement who sell aluminum machines all around the world (From South korea to USA, he event met Bill Clinton in an inauguration). Dispite his important place, I remember that he has problems with his hierarchy. One of his boss (that was fired lately by Pechiney USA) was a bad man : an incredible IQ, but a terrible manager that was feared by everybody. My father was really sick of his man, and decided to retire himself.
I sweared that I will be my own boss, and that nobody will give me orders.

MarcUK

11-09-2004, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Powerdoc

I sweared that I will be my own boss, and that nobody will give me orders.

Bend over...NOW!

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by SpcMs
Actually, according to two official Mensa tests i took (yeah, the hour long ones), mine is even a tad higher. But let me add that is very much compensated by my inability to remember a stupid phone number, or to stop bragging with my IQ test results ;)

Congrats man.
For bragging you are OK.
I am surprised that some people with really high IQ test, need to claim that they have an extremely high IQ when they feel idiot. I witness this once. One of my friend have forgot to do something, and he was very worried. He said : I forgot this, but the boss (our medecine teacher) did not say to do it, but I a m a very intelligent man, you know my IQ is of 198.
That was funny to hear that. He is really intelligent, and I am sure he was saying the truth (he did one of the greatest school of busisness in France, before entering in medecine, after having running his own busisness in canada at the age of 30).

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by MarcUK
Bend over...NOW!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!! :p

Even in the front of the liberal elite ;) :D

MarcUK

11-09-2004, 03:51 PM

198 :wow:

sometimes when Im watching people who have Iq's of like 80, I wonder what it must be like to view the world through their eyes. I wonder how your friend looks at the world?. I wonder if he wonders how people like me are wondering at people with IQ's of 80 wondering about the world.

BRussell

11-09-2004, 03:52 PM

It's funny how the average IQ of people in general is 100, but the average IQ of people on internet message boards is about 130. 130 is 2 standard deviations above the mean (iq has a mean of 100 and a SD of 15). That means that we here on the internet are in the top 2% of all people in the world. Woohoo for us!

MarcUK

11-09-2004, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by BRussell
It's funny how the average IQ of people in general is 100, but the average IQ of people on internet message boards is about 130. 130 is 2 standard deviations above the mean (iq has a mean of 100 and a SD of 15). That means that we here on the internet are in the top 2% of all people in the world. Woohoo for us!

Yeah, but its an average. factor in (the usual suspects ;) Personal attacks are not allowed;) ), and im sure the average is still around 100.

groverat

11-09-2004, 03:58 PM

On the Internet everyone is a genius, has a 9-inch penis and can kill a bear with one hand tied behind his back. It's amazing!

This list is stupid. It is the kind of thing you get in e-mail forwards. Let's keep this from being an e-mail forward pasteboard.

"OMG HAY DID U GUYZ SEE THE KORAN 9:11 QUOTE!? LET THE EAGLE SOAR!"

segovius

11-09-2004, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by Powerdoc
Congrats man.
For bragging you are OK.
I am surprised that some people with really high IQ test, need to claim that they have an extremely high IQ when they feel idiot. I witness this once. One of my friend have forgot to do something, and he was very worried. He said : I forgot this, but the boss (our medecine teacher) did not say to do it, but I a m a very intelligent man, you know my IQ is of 198.
That was funny to hear that. He is really intelligent, and I am sure he was saying the truth (he did one of the greatest school of busisness in France, before entering in medecine, after having running his own busisness in canada at the age of 30).

Maybe he exaggerated a bit Powerdoc - world record IQ is Marilyn vos Savant I think - 167.

SpcMs

11-09-2004, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by BRussell
It's funny how the average IQ of people in general is 100, but the average IQ of people on internet message boards is about 130. 130 is 2 standard deviations above the mean (iq has a mean of 100 and a SD of 15). That means that we here on the internet are in the top 2% of all people in the world. Woohoo for us!
We are talking about people who post about politics on a fan board of a computer manufacturer.
We must have a common 'abnormality'.

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by MarcUK
198 :wow:

sometimes when Im watching people who have Iq's of like 80, I wonder what it must be like to view the world through their eyes. I wonder how your friend looks at the world?. I wonder if he wonders how people like me are wondering at people with IQ's of 80 wondering about the world.

I don't know. Anyway, in normal conversations, these people do not look special (read they appear as normal intelligent guy). In fact what impressed me the more, is his strenght. He was able to work 20 hours a day. Something that is impossible for me. If I did not see this personnaly, I won't believed it.

I hope I will see him in november to have some news. This one of the oddest people I know (I hope you do not know many people who have a great busisness in canada, stopped it, and started long medical studies in France at the age of 33)

MarcUK

11-09-2004, 04:05 PM

Ever wonder why we need to compare ourselves to a number?

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by segovius
Maybe he exaggerated a bit Powerdoc - world record IQ is Marilyn vos Savant I think - 167.

Well I think that there is two differents scales of IQ. For example with most standart IQ test in europe, you can't go further than 150 (the score you get, when you answer to all the questions in the limited time).

MarcUK

11-09-2004, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by groverat
On the Internet everyone is a genius, has a 9-inch penis and can kill a bear with one hand tied behind his back.

FUCK!!!, you mean i'm not special?

My mom TOLD ME I WAS SPECIAL.

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by MarcUK
Ever wonder why we need to compare ourselves to a number?

When you have good results in school or university, IQ are worthless. Now for some people who do not have the chance to do a good scholarship, IQ may be a chance for them.
For example my father in law, followed IQ tests in the army (like any french people who was doing his draft), they discovered that dispite he was only a baker (he learned bakery at the age of 14) , he was an intelligent man.
When he came back from the algerian war, he decided that at the light of this IQ tests, he was not stupid, and could do something better in his life than bakery. He learn insurances, and worked in that aera. For him IQ test was a good thing.

More generally IQ tests are important for child who encounter difficulties at school. If the child have problems, and his IQ is law, it's obvious he is not suited for great studies, and it would be better for him, to learn a job. If his IQ is high, perhaps he has a future, with or without studies.

Anders

11-09-2004, 04:15 PM

http://mensa.dk/iqtest/index.html

when finished mouse over the menu button and choose "send"

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by groverat
On the Internet everyone is a genius, has a 9-inch penis and can kill a bear with one hand tied behind his back. It's amazing!

This list is stupid. It is the kind of thing you get in e-mail forwards. Let's keep this from being an e-mail forward pasteboard.

"OMG HAY DID U GUYZ SEE THE KORAN 9:11 QUOTE!? LET THE EAGLE SOAR!"

Well this list is stupid and it come out from nowhere. Every people who believe this list shoud substract ten point to their IQ immediatly ! :smokey:

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Anders
http://mensa.dk/iqtest/index.html

when finished mouse over the menu button and choose "send"

Well I tried your test Andes and I have a nice zero : I don't understand a single word of dane : this is the proof I am a total idiot :(

MarcUK

11-09-2004, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Anders
http://mensa.dk/iqtest/index.html

when finished mouse over the menu button and choose "send"

i get your point ;)

Anders

11-09-2004, 04:30 PM

Oh sorry. I didn´t check my link properly.

Go to www.mensa.dk

Choose "Test din IQ"

when finished mouse over the menu button and choose "send"

lolo

11-09-2004, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Powerdoc
Tu n'est pas un bon à rien, tu es un mauvais en tout. Not really related, just felt like posting it:

Dans la vie, y a pas d'grands, y a pas d'petits. La bonne longueur pour les jambes, c'est quand les pieds touchent bien par terre. - Coluche

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by lolo
Not really related, just felt like posting it:

Dans la vie, y a pas d'grands, y a pas d'petits. La bonne longueur pour les jambes, c'est quand les pieds touchent bien par terre. - Coluche

Très bonne citation. Finalement avoir les pieds sur terre, c'est peut être le plus important. ;)

shetline

11-09-2004, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Powerdoc
Well I tried your test Andes and I have a nice zero : I don't understand a single word of dane : this is the proof I am a total idiot :(
The first part of the test is figuring out how to get to the test without knowing Danish. It's not all that hard. ;) :D

It's all pictures after that. I'll have to give it a try when I get home, however, since I shouldn't even be wasting this much time on AI or Danish IQ tests while at work. :wow: :lol:

Powerdoc

11-09-2004, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by shetline
The first part of the test is figuring out how to get to the test without knowing Danish. It's not all that hard. ;) :D

It's all pictures after that. I'll have to give it a try when I get home, however, since I shouldn't even be wasting this much time on AI or Danish IQ tests while at work. :wow: :lol:

Well I did not try. May be tomorow if I have some time to waste ... :D

MarcUK

11-09-2004, 05:08 PM

Powerdoc you wimp!

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/specularmotion/danishIQ.jpg

I have a 9" cock and can kill a bear with one hand.

Anders, what does all this gibberish say?

MarcUK

11-09-2004, 05:16 PM

Powerdoc

REMEMBER:

NO MORE BANS FOR PEOPLE WHO CAN SCORE 126 ON A DANISH IQ TEST. WITH 15 MINUTES OF TIME STILL REMAINING. GET A SCREEN GRAB OF IT. CROP THE IMAGE. PUT IT ON MY SERVER AND POST A REPLY IN OUTSIDER WITHIN 38 MINUTES OF ANDERS PUTTING THE LINK UP ON THE BOARD!!!! Im proud to be of the Liberal Elite.

OR I WILL HAVE TO BEND YOU OVER. MMmmmmKAY! :P

sammi jo

11-09-2004, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by segovius
Maybe he exaggerated a bit Powerdoc - world record IQ is Marilyn vos Savant I think - 167.

Have you ever read some of her drivel?

Savant.... sheeeesh.... :rolleyes:

:wow:

segovius

11-09-2004, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by sammi jo
Have you ever read some of her drivel?

Savant.... sheeeesh.... :rolleyes:

:wow:

No, I haven't had the pleasure - how bad is it ?

Jubelum

11-09-2004, 07:11 PM

Besides the total lack of credibility of any of those numbers (I agree with Buon) I have to remind you of one thing: we live in a democracy. Everyone votes, pal. We are all equal, remember? One-person, one-vote.

Yet again, the arrogant, elitist left is talking about how they are somehow "smarter" than the rest of us. AWESOME. All of us on the right LOVE that. It really worked against you guys, especially among them assho's in the red states- your best bet electorally is to STFU about how smart you are and how dumb everyone else is. It pisses people off, they vote despite you, and you lose. And lose. And lose.

So keep telling your opponents they are idiots and too stupid to have an opinion. That way when they DO turn out like they did, and their reps slam the door on your failed policies, you will have little recourse. Ya catch more with honey than vinegar, my friend.

If none of this works for you, please be the first to demand that we vote proportional to IQ. Three-fifths Compromise, anyone? There was a time when a person of my race was only 3/5 of a person. And they were not allowed to vote because- here it comes- "they were too ignorant to vote."

:no:

I love some of you. Deeply.

:grumble:

MarcUK

11-09-2004, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by Jubelum
.

If none of this works for you, please be the first to demand that we vote proportional to IQ. Three-fifths Compromise, anyone? There was a time when a person of my race was only 3/5 of a person. And they were not allowed to vote because- here it comes- "they were too ignorant to vote."

:no:

I love some of you. Deeply.

:grumble:

Thats a damn good idea, my vote is worth 26% more than average. I guess you got less than 100 then?

curiousuburb

11-09-2004, 08:54 PM

Half of the world is below average.

I've seen a bumper sticker version (also without going into the statistics of bell curves) as:

"Half of the people you know are below average"

Jubelum

11-09-2004, 11:50 PM

Originally posted by MarcUK
Thats a damn good idea, my vote is worth 26% more than average. I guess you got less than 100 then?

Why would mine be less? Because I am black?
:rolleyes:

bunge

11-09-2004, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by Jubelum
Why would mine be less? Because I am black?
:rolleyes:

How would anyone know you're black? Your graphic looks green.

Jubelum

11-09-2004, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by bunge
How would anyone know you're black? Your graphic looks green.

:lol:

midwinter

11-10-2004, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by BRussell
Hell, if you have an IQ of 126, you're almost certainly the smartest person on AI. Which, granted, isn't saying much. But that's really, really high.

BRussell: since this is your field, could you talk a little bit about how these IQ tests work? I've never really thought about 126 being all that high, since when I was a schoolkid in the late 70s and early 80s a load of us were tested all the time for various honors/talented and gifted programs. Apparently the minimum score they'd accept was a 120. Is a 120+ really all that high? I've seen my scores from two tests (one was Stanford-Binet [sp?]), one taken as a kid and one taken at 16 or 17. Let's just say that both were higher than 126.

I've just never understood how they worked and what the numbers mean in a statistical sense. Do you know anything about how all of this works?

Cheers
Scott

tonton

11-10-2004, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by bunge
How would anyone know you're black? Your graphic looks green.

Yeah. I think he's from one of those "green" states. :lol:

SpcMs

11-10-2004, 11:04 AM

BRussell

11-10-2004, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by midwinter
BRussell: since this is your field, could you talk a little bit about how these IQ tests work? I've never really thought about 126 being all that high, since when I was a schoolkid in the late 70s and early 80s a load of us were tested all the time for various honors/talented and gifted programs. Apparently the minimum score they'd accept was a 120. Is a 120+ really all that high? I've seen my scores from two tests (one was Stanford-Binet [sp?]), one taken as a kid and one taken at 16 or 17. Let's just say that both were higher than 126.

I've just never understood how they worked and what the numbers mean in a statistical sense. Do you know anything about how all of this works?

Cheers
Scott Yeah, it's really easy to figure out exactly how high or low a score is, compared to others. It used to be based on a mental age/chronological age comparison, but that's really not used today. Now, IQ scores are normed so that they're on a normal curve with a mean of 100 and a standard deviation of 15. If people start scoring better, the testers simply adjust the scores downward so the mean is always 100. And BTW, that has happened. It's called the Flynn effect - scores have gotten better over time. So a score of 100 today may have been a 110 twenty-five years ago.

But the point is, it's not a guessing game how high your score is - you know exactly where you stand in relation to others who have taken the test in the same general time period. You can calculate your percentile from your score. A score of 130 is 2 SDs above the mean, and you can look up in a table that only 2% of the population has a score that high or higher.

That any given individual would have a score of 130 is highly unlikely - there's only about a 2% chance - but it's not impossible. But that every single person on the internet would have a score of 130 or higher is impossible. Because of the nature of the normal distribution, the vast majority of people are clustered within 10-20 points of 100.

(In response to what SpcMs posted, it's true that some tests have different SDs. I think that's what the mensa website is referring to. But if they don't use 15, they're usually pretty close - I've only ever seen 12 or 16 as alternatives.)

Standardized academic tests like GREs and SATs are basically IQ tests too. IQ tests are designed to measure academic-type ability, and so are GREs/SATs. You can roughly convert to an IQ score by knowing the mean and standard deviation of the test you took. I know GRE scores have a mean of 500 (on a subsection) and a SD of 100. So a score of 600 on a subsection is roughly equivalent to an IQ score of 115, if you want to treat the GRE as basically a version of an IQ test.

BuonRotto

11-10-2004, 12:07 PM

[b]Tester: What do you do with a banana?

Buon: I put it on top of the refrigerator

Tester: What do you do when it's cold out?

Buon: Brrrrrrrrr!

True story. :D

Anders

11-10-2004, 12:46 PM

I can confirm that the 15, 16 and 25 on the danish mensa page is referring to the standard deviation.

Buon: What is your opinion on education, training and IQ tests? I would think that since you are trained to think more and more abstract the higher forms of education you get it would also train your brain to think "outside the box" so to speak. That if the way you are attacking a problem doesn´t give any results you are more likely to look for new more abstract ways to attack it the more abstract forms of training you have had.

One part of sociology that many of my co-students have had problems with is the sociology of Nicklas Luhmann. His theory of society is a very abstract system theory that has a tendency to operate on another level of abstraction that how we normally understand society. But while I may have difficulties in grasping aspects of the more soft areas of sociology, Luhmanns theory became very clear when I discovered how the system relates to the world we sense very close to how the concept of symbolic representation I was taught in CS in high school. And even closer do the concept of OOP remind me of Luhmanns theories.

Hmm. What was I trying to say? Yes that training in thinking abstract in one area will influence your ability to think abstract in other areas. And also help you in IQ tests.

SDW2001

11-10-2004, 12:57 PM

Awesome and creative thread. Really. I think others have already done a good job explaining why the state rank of IQ's is just totally laughable. Does anyone really believe this?

midwinter

11-10-2004, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by SDW2001
Awesome and creative thread. Really. I think others have already done a good job explaining why the state rank of IQ's is just totally laughable. Does anyone really believe this?

SDW: None of those were available choices. Your choices were

To make it easy for Scott, SDW2001, Frank777, & co., here are a few sample replies:

(a) Fvck you!!
(b) This is total b*llshit!
(c) The election is over, you fvcking moron!
(d) all of the above

Please try again, and this time follow the rules.

BuonRotto

11-10-2004, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Anders
Buon: What is your opinion on education, training and IQ tests? I would think that since you are trained to think more and more abstract the higher forms of education you get it would also train your brain to think "outside the box" so to speak. That if the way you are attacking a problem doesn´t give any results you are more likely to look for new more abstract ways to attack it the more abstract forms of training you have had.

Those answers I gave when I was six made perfect sense in terms of the questions they asked. (For the record, I still don't eat bananas. :p) The test makers were looking for a normative answer, not a strictly logical one per se. Eating a banana and putting a coat on are logical, but more specifically are normative behaviors. This is what most standardized tests and IQ tests look for inadvertently.

I think the abnility to abstract and in particular conceptualize problems before trying to solve them helps tremendously, but, in terms of dead Greek guys, Plato and Aristotle were both right. Abstract problems can be more manaegable with concrete and finite applications to test them. Very particular problems can be easier to figure out by abstracting the factors involved, breaking them down into smaller problems or more general processes. I'm a biased source, but I think design is the best test of intellligence because it requires the "two-way stretch" as we call it. It's not only analytic, it's not only synthetic, it always defines its context and it communicates its intentions and assumptions inherently if not explicitly. Like I said, I'm biased. I've never been good at brain teasers, and I'm not quick on my feet when something needs to be done.

Igor Stravinsky once said that the more he is limited, the more he is free. I think the benefit of concrete learning and intelligence is that it's easier to work within finite parameters, that you're not paralyzed by the infinite possibilities otherwise available to you. The abstract apsect of intelligence is handy because you have to define those parameters first. Sometimes, you're not given the right ones, or some may not be recognized. The ability to recognize and define parameters to a problem yourself is immensely important IMO. If someone asked me, "What are bananas for?" or "What do most people do when they have a banana?" I would have probably given an answer that was closer to what they were looking for, but they didn't, and I assumed up my own perspective on the matter.

Hmm. What was I trying to say? Yes that training in thinking abstract in one area will influence your ability to think abstract in other areas. And also help you in IQ tests.

To me, abstract thinking, conceptualization, logic are applicable to any subject inherently. At some broad level, design is design, whether you're designing a computer or a pair of tweazers.

The new "thing" is to talk about different kinds of intelligence, and while I think that's good to differentiate, I think there's a tendency to consider even these in isolation. (Though I guess that's academics being academic about it, and, to me, it makes sense for academics to be academic. :) ) An extension of the two-way stretch is the belts and suspenders approach. That is, you can use one form of intelligence to help pick up the slack in other areas. What I guess I'm saying is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Ok, I stop babble now.

SDW2001

11-10-2004, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by midwinter
SDW: None of those were available choices. Your choices were

Please try again, and this time follow the rules.

I believe I have to select (b) then. Total Bullshit. Oh, and I also choose "t" for troll.