US general "war is fun'

[Common Man]

Is this guy representative of our military??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4234751.stm

[Aurora]

Originally posted by Common Man
Is this guy representative of our military??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4234751.stm I think he was having fun going after those woman slapping,woman degrading,woman abusing, woman rights denying Islamic extremists who think a woman is property and has no say in anything not even her own life. When you think about it kind of ups the anty going after these mahammads. The General got a little carried away with words but who can blame him. Taliban sucked as much as Bin Laden and his foolish followers.He wasnt in afghanistan picking poppies you know. He was there to kill those Freaks.

[e1618978]

Originally posted by Common Man
Is this guy representative of our military??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4234751.stm

He is representitive of the military of every country, even France.
Sociopaths are required if you want to win wars.

We could ask for a little more diplomacy from our upper level officers, though.

[Aries 1B]

Originally posted by e1618978
He is representitive of the military of every country, even France.
Sociopaths are required if you want to win wars.

We could ask for a little more diplomacy from our upper level officers, though.

Sociopaths? No.

The men and women of the United States Marine Corps possess a clear and unyielding value system. That value system strongly disapproves of needle-dicks slapping women around and eunuchs decapitating bound prisoners. That value system also holds that Western Civilization as embodied by the United States of America is good and worth defending. Necessarily that value system will hold that killing those who threaten Western Civilization and who slap women around and who decapitate bound prisoners is a good thing.

Diplomacy is for diplomats; Generals should enjoy their work.

Aries 1B

[e1618978]

All I know on the subject came from the Discovery channel - military training, particularly for the special forces, involves turning young men into sociopaths. According to the program, this is one of the main reasons that armed forces don't like to recruit people over the age of 28, because their brains are not malliable enough.

I am not making a value judgement - just that you can't kill 20 people in a day, and then go home and laugh over a cup of hot chocolate, without being a sociopath. I believe that the military has re-training to take the combat out of the solidier before they re-enter normal society.

[midwinter]

Originally posted by e1618978
I am not making a value judgement - just that you can't kill 20 people in a day, and then go home and laugh over a cup of hot chocolate, without being a sociopath.

That's funny.

[Scott]

Everyone should enjoy their work.

[e1618978]

I'm starting to get worried that someone from the armed forces is going to read my posting above and feel insulted - please know that wasn't my intension. I am very glad that the US has people who are able to kill without worrying too much about it - you keep my family safe.

[johnq]

Hey, this guy is in charge of the world's 5th-largest economy:

http://www.arnold.ro/images/galerie/ga114.jpg

And these fuckers are being deployed in Iraq:

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/images/talon_fm.jpg

http://www.defensetech.org/archives/001246.html

Is anything surprising anymore?

[e1618978]

Sweet!

[groverat]

That is disgusting and any person who thinks killing people is fun is a disgusting and morally repugnant human being.

Notice how I said "any person". I mean any person. Soldier or not.

[johnq]

I despise Bush's hollow "spread freedom" agenda and trust him as far as I can throw him.

If you're going to spread freedom, spread freedom.

Freedom != Shoot and bomb the shit out of everything in sight. Now with Robots.

Soon comes the day I stop paying my taxes.

[dmz]

I think this in known as "gallows humor". There are other coping mechanisms known to apply in these situations. If it was in your job description to kill bad guys, you would pick a mechanism and you would use it.


I am prescribing the whole lot of you to rent Full Metal Jacket with a smidgen of Lawerence of Arabia on the dicotomy of Man, War, etc.

[Common Man]

"needle-dicks" lol

[madmax559]

Originally posted by Scott
Everyone should enjoy their work.

even people who arnt bottle fed ?

[Scott]

Originally posted by madmax559
even people who arnt bottle fed ?

Happiness is for everyone.

[Powerdoc]

Originally posted by e1618978
He is representitive of the military of every country, even France.
Sociopaths are required if you want to win wars.

We could ask for a little more diplomacy from our upper level officers, though.

I disagree with this one. This guy is not representative of the military of every country even US.

There is some, especially among the youngsters who dream of heroic records. But most of the officers I enconter where more interested in the "call of duty" than anything else. Most of them are very "square" people with head on their shoulders. Thanks god they are this way, and not like this general.
He looks like the kind of guy who brings ww3 in Kubrik's movie Doctor strangelove.

This man is a shame.

[pfflam]

Originally posted by Common Man
Is this guy representative of our military??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4234751.stm Well, considering that one of the main goals of bootcamp: wherein you have to hold a rifle over you head and stand in a room full of poisonous gas, while turning around in circles and chanting "I am Killing Machine", is to, in fact, make you into an efficient "Killing Machine" --it does not surprise me that this Marine would say that.

he is merely voicing a truth that people don't want to acknowledge, namely that many people get a kick and even a high from killing and warfare.

It reminds me of that obscure film with John Lennon called "How I Won The War" . . . when a German officer says to a soldier,

'Hans, you are dismissed, you can go home"

Hans puts down his rifle and turns to the camera and says: "Hans puts down his rifle and thus perpetuates the myth that soldiers do not love war"

[curiousuburb]

Originally posted by Powerdoc
He looks like the kind of guy who brings ww3 in Kubrick's movie Doctor strangelove.

This man is a shame.

Originally posted by dmz
I am prescribing the whole lot of you to rent Full Metal Jacket with a smidgen of Lawerence of Arabia on the dicotomy of Man, War, etc.

Absolutely (http://imdb.com/title/tt0057012/quotes) my first thoughts... straight out of Kubrick. I'd add Paths of Glory (http://imdb.com/title/tt0050825/) to the list.

[Kishan]

Originally posted by pfflam
Well, considering that one of the main goals of bootcamp: wherein you have to hold a rifle over you head and stand in a room full of poisonous gas, while turning around in circles and chanting "I am Killing Machine", is to, in fact, make you into an efficient "Killing Machine" --it does not surprise me that this Marine would say that.

Officers and enlisted men are recruited from two different segments of the population. Officers generally have college degrees and are put through bootcamp as a formality before being further educated in matters of military tactics, logistics and strategy. Enlisted men are generally less educated and younger before enlisting. They are put through "boot" to condition them to execute orders from those in the chain of command who have the authority to issue them. The thinking behind this is sensible and clear: Officers should be the brains and the elisted men be the brawn. In additon to being organizationally sound, this arrangement is based in the historical roots of military rank and discipline. Officers were historically culled from the aristocracy to lead an army of peasant conscripts.

This does not hold so true in "special forces" such as the SEALS, Marine Recon or Rangers, where both officers and enlisted men of sufficient merit are eligible to volunteer for a weeding out process by which their resolve and abilities are tested. These types of camps are often what make their way into popular media by way of Discovery channel documentaries and the like.

I believe that this particular general was echoing a sentiment that many American men hold: That it would be satisfying, if not actually enjoyable, to revisit on a group of men the misery and suffering they have inflicted on women. After reading his quote several times, this is the conclusion I come to. I find it difficult to believe that a high ranking US officer would intend such a statement to mean the broader, more ominous statement of "killing people is fun."

[addabox]

So how far does the coarsening of our character have to go before most people think it's gone to far?

We've got a new dynamic that approves of every fresh insult to what used to be known as "values" (pre hijacking by the Rove right) for no better reason than it pisses on liberal sensibilities.

I fully believe that if there was a news report of the US military personnel sodomizing Iraqi children for sport there would be posters on these boards (who would represent their cohorts abroad in the land) happily explaining to us why the jack-boot of democracy requires refreshing by the semen of patriots, or something.

It's a slippery slope. Once you've normalized one outrage, the next one is just a little bit easier. Once you've explained why one atrocity isn't really an atrocity, or justified by circumstances, or just basically OK, then you've laid the ground for something a little more appalling.

I live in a country now where, by executive fiat and popular acclaim, the unilateral invasion of a non-belligerent country is OK, rounding up civilians and denying them due process is OK, torture is OK, indeterminate detention is OK, and, apparently, semi-insane remarks by officers of the United States army are OK (not the first such, of course).

9/11 sure did change everything. I ripped away the illusion that the US is a country that cares about international law, peace, human rights, due process or plain old decency.

We're practically celebrating our new found identity as a blood thirsty engine of retribution. What a relief it is, to stop pretending and load the gun. How cathartic, to see the brains of innocents splattered on the scenery. The veneer of civilization-- it was always just an obstacle, right? The other insane blood thirsty tribes don't play by those rules, so it's high time we joined the fray with our dicks out, our eyes glazed with a killing fever, any thought of who we were safely obliterated by the mandates of vengeance.

We're America, motherfuckers! God bless us! And he better do it pronto, cause we know where he lives and we've got him in our sights!

[e1618978]

So how far does the coarsening of our character have to go before most people think it's gone to far?

We've got a new dynamic that approves of every fresh insult to what used to be known as "values" (pre hijacking by the Rove right) for no better reason than it pisses on liberal sensibilities.

The way I see it, we tried being nice during the Clinton years, and it was supremely unsuccessful. So we have lowered ourselves to the barbarous level of our enemies and we are duking it out in the trenches. As we continue to win, we will gradually become more noble along with the countries that we liberate.

It also seems to me that anything that the liberals can grab onto they do, and they exagerate it. The liberal oposition is a bunch of slavering attack dogs, just as the Republicans were during the Clinton years.

[e1618978]

We're America, motherfuckers! God bless us! And he better do it pronto, cause we know where he lives and we've got him in our sights!

I must also admit, that your quote above has a nice ring to it.

[hmurchison]

People it's all about context. Being in the military allows you to shoot people and have it be relatively guilt free. If that isn't fun I don't know what is.

Face it..how many times to you get cut off on the highway and want to blow the car up with an imaginary missle?

This guy is just taking a page from Gen Patton about "loving" war. Everything else shrinks to insignificance.

[Common Man]

Has anyone seen a complete transcript of these remarks?

[hardeeharhar]

Originally posted by hmurchison
Face it..how many times to you get cut off on the highway and want to blow the car up with an imaginary missle?

LASER. Think BIG undercarriage LASER.

[addabox]

Originally posted by hmurchison
People it's all about context. Being in the military allows you to shoot people and have it be relatively guilt free. If that isn't fun I don't know what is.

Face it..how many times to you get cut off on the highway and want to blow the car up with an imaginary missle?

This guy is just taking a page from Gen Patton about "loving" war. Everything else shrinks to insignificance.

Sure. But I think after actually blowing people up with a real missile and seeing what a human body looks like after exposed to same, taking due note of what the head of somebody's mother looks like after it has been smashed open with shrapnel and her brains have been scattered around, I think I might not fantasize about that anymore. I wonder about what kind of person I would have to become to think that that was "fun". I wonder what kind of person I would have to become to go on record as thinking it was "fun".

[e1618978]

Originally posted by addabox
Sure. But I think after actually blowing people up with a real missile and seeing what a human body looks like after exposed to same, taking due note of what the head of somebody's mother looks like after it has been smashed open with shrapnel and her brains have been scattered around, I think I might not fantasize about that anymore. I wonder about what kind of person I would have to become to think that that was "fun". I wonder what kind of person I would have to become to go on record as thinking it was "fun".

enjoy killing --> sociopath
say it on record --> extrovert

[hmurchison]

I wonder what kind of person I would have to become to go on record as thinking it was "fun".

You would have to be the avg infantry soldier in the military. I'm shocked that people are making an issue out of this but then again i'm not. Many people know that this Generals attitude is "precisely" what we need to fight this type of war. They just don't want it admitted out loud.

The price of freedom is frequently paid in blood.

[hardeeharhar]

Originally posted by hmurchison
You would have to be the avg infantry soldier in the military. I'm shocked that people are making an issue out of this but then again i'm not. Many people know that this Generals attitude is "precisely" what we need to fight this type of war. They just don't want it admitted out loud.

The price of freedom is frequently paid in blood.

What type of war is that? Or do you mean war in general?

Whose freedom is paid for in blood?

Seriously, do you have any idea of what you writing or are you simply regurgitating?

[giant]

See, here's the issue: of the vets and couple active officers in my family, every single one of them holds the exact opposite view of this guy.

[Aurora]

Just remember that when the real fighting is going on this guy is most likely far away or at a desk. How many Generals do you know are on the front line getting shot at?

[Zarathustra]

... shoot people and have it be relatively guilt free. If that isn't fun I don't know what is.


You don't know what fun is.

Hopefully, for normal people, its not watching the face of another human being disintigrate in front of you after you unleash your assault weapon, or flying home through the glow of a town lit up after you've dropped your ordnance on it.

If war is justified (and its wasn't here) its should be onerous, a task or duty, not R&R. Why is it wrong for someone to enjoy degrading women but right for someone else to enjoy slaughtering families?


(BTW the answer is that both are wrong - not that the women thing and the murder are equally okay)

[hmurchison]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
What type of war is that? Or do you mean war in general?

Whose freedom is paid for in blood?

Seriously, do you have any idea of what you writing or are you simply regurgitating?

1. Any land or mechanized War. IE anything beyond garbage like "War against drugs" or "War against poverty"

2. Certainly every Americans safety is protected by the US military who's men and women are shedding blood for our protections. I'm certain other nations have similar scenarios.

3. Of course I do I rubbed shoulders with my brothers in my Platoon. I would have shot an Arab dead and not grieved greatly. I was determined to get home standing from Saudi Arabia if that meant toe taggin' another man that's what was going to happen. And no I wasn't infantry but I had 210 rounds nonetheless. So to answer your question..yes I know what i'm talking about.

Any more questions?

[hmurchison]

You don't know what fun is.

Fun is living another day. Fun is seeing your loved ones smiling. Fun is familiar places. Fun is eating great food. Sometimes defeating your enemy is "fun" because on that day it wasn't you that was defeated. War never makes sense fellas but that General was %100. I don't have "any" sympathy for cowards over there. You may think that you know what it's like to see how downtrodden women are there but when confronted with right before your very own eyes I know exactly how the General felt. Guess you'd have had to been there.

[addabox]

Originally posted by hmurchison
Fun is living another day. Fun is seeing your loved ones smiling. Fun is familiar places. Fun is eating great food. Sometimes defeating your enemy is "fun" because on that day it wasn't you that was defeated. War never makes sense fellas but that General was %100. I don't have "any" sympathy for cowards over there. You may think that you know what it's like to see how downtrodden women are there but when confronted with right before your very own eyes I know exactly how the General felt. Guess you'd have had to been there.

OK so now it's all about "downtrodden women"? Sorry, didn't get the memo. But just to be clear, killing "the enemy" doesn't trouble you because they treat women badly?

Seems like we've ratcheted down quite a bit from "threatens our freedom" or "are trying to kill us" or "hates our way of life".

And since, as you say, war doesn't make sense, it must have occurred to you that some of those "cowards" were just in the wrong place in the wrong time?
I mean you have noticed that a lot of "down trodden" woman have been killed in artillery and helicopter attacks?

You've done what you've done and you square that with yourself however you need to, but making all the people in the way of your bullets into cartoon bad guys that had it coming seems like a shitty way to do it.

[Gene Clean]

Originally posted by Aurora
Just remember that when the real fighting is going on this guy is most likely far away or at a desk. How many Generals do you know are on the front line getting shot at?

And who do you think the soldiers look up to; the cook, or the general?

[Gon]

Most good soldiers like fighting, so I don't think there is anything wrong with what the general thinks. That's the kind of person I'd like to have on my side in a fight.

Actually I don't understand why generals are put in a position of saying anything to the media. It's not their job IMO. Politicians ordered the war, so I think they should be the ones to receive reports from the military and tell the news to people. Maybe the facts (and only the facts!) should go public on a regular basis anyway.. the military could just put them available on the net. In my opinion, the only "PR" folk in the armed forces should be propaganda specialists and just like the rest of the soldiers, they should only target enemies. Not the people who the army is supposedly serving.

The people who claim that it needs a sociopath to enjoy their work (even if it involves killing people): that just ain't true. Sociopaths are incapable of feeling for other people including their comrades in arms. Good soldiers are conditioned not to feel for the enemy, or at least suppress the emotion effectively. You can't trust sociopaths, and you don't want them among your troops. A sociopath could just as well, when put to a tight spot, covertly kill his superior or other comrade if that would let him slip away and get out of the fight, without being put to a court-martial.

[Protostar]

What many people dont understand is that this is the way those women have been living that way for centuries. You all call them cowards but they think the same thing of us as well. After all how many of you have heard of your friends getting "whipped" by the girlfriends? This to them would be considered an abomination (it is to me too) but over here its very commonplace. What Im really trying to say is thats just their way of life. Thats one of the Western world's biggest problems is our desire to force our way of life on other cultures. Middle Eastern nations such as Iraq are very religious and feel that women have thieir place just as men have theirs. In our culture it is believed that everyone should have a chance at everything whether your male or female. Just because our view is different than theirs doesnt make it superior and doesnt make it right

[e1618978]

In our culture it is believed that everyone should have a chance at everything whether your male or female. Just because our view is different than theirs doesnt make it superior and doesnt make it right [/B]

You could apply that same logic to the pre-civil war
south to say that slavery was OK, or to Nazi Germany...

[Res]

Originally posted by addabox
Sure. But I think after actually blowing people up with a real missile and seeing what a human body looks like after exposed to same, taking due note of what the head of somebody's mother looks like after it has been smashed open with shrapnel and her brains have been scattered around, I think I might not fantasize about that anymore. I wonder about what kind of person I would have to become to think that that was "fun". I wonder what kind of person I would have to become to go on record as thinking it was "fun".

The General did not say that killing civilians was fun: He was talking about killing enemy soldiers that were trying to kill him. Enemy soldiers of a country that denies human rights and horribly abuses half it population. So he enjoys the thrill of battle and killing an enemy that is trying to kill him (and supports an oppressive regime). That is quite understandable. People are posting on this thread like he said that he loved napalming school kids. :no:

[Gene Clean]

This reminds me of one of the best books ever written that deal with war; 'All Quiet On The Western Front' - by Erich Maria Remarque.


We march up, moody or good-tempered soldiers - we reach the zone where the front begins and become on the instant human animals.

We want to live at any price; so we cannot burden ourselves with feelings which, though they might be ornamental enough in peace-time, would be out of place here.

All other expressions lie in a winter sleep, life is simply one continual watch against the menace of death; - it has transformed us into unthinking animals in order to give us the weapon of instinct - it has reinforced us with dullness, so that we do not go to pieces before the horror, which would overwhelm us if we had clear, conscious thought - it has awakened in us the sense of comradeship, so that we escape the abyss of solitude - it has lent us the indifference of wild creatures, so that in spite of all, we perceive the positive in every moment, and store it up against the onslaught of nothingness.

[Protostar]

You could apply that same logic to the pre-civil war
south to say that slavery was OK, or to Nazi Germany...

Not really. Women in Middle Eatsern countries are not being sold and bought like cattle like blacks were in the Pre-civil war South nor are they being slaughtered like cattle like Jews were in Nazi-Germany

[e1618978]

Originally posted by Protostar
Not really. Women in Middle Eatsern countries are not being sold and bought like cattle like blacks were in the Pre-civil war South nor are they being slaughtered like cattle like Jews were in Nazi-Germany

I wasn't saying that they were - I was just pointing out that your position ("you can't judge people of different cultures by the values of your culture") could also be used to justify very heinous crimes, including slavery and genocide.

I think that most middle eastern women are oppressed by western standards, and that is enough for me to say that the oppression should be changed. I was not comparing the middle east to Nazi Germany or the pre-civil war south, I was just using those two oppressive periods to show that your argument was invalid.