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trumptman
02-21-2005, 10:21 PM
Coming Supreme Court Cases (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-garbus21feb21,0,6775860.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions)

On Tuesday, the U.S. Supreme Court will be faced with the following question: Under what conditions, if any, can the government take property from you or your business for the public good? Although the question sounds straightforward enough, its answer will have profound, complex — and terribly important — consequences for the future of American social policy.

High Court Hears Home Seizure (http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-eminentdomain.artfeb20,0,7443845.story?coll=hc-headlines-local)

The Fort Trumbull eminent domain controversy is the most significant Connecticut case to be argued before the U.S. Supreme Court in 40 years, and offers the court its first opportunity in half a century to address the government's power to take private property for economic development.

CNN-Land War (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/02/21/scotus.eminent.domain/)

A fight by homeowners to save their New London, Connecticut, neighborhood from city officials and private developers -- an important property rights case with an unusual twist -- will reach the U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday.

At issue is whether governments can forcibly seize homes and businesses, for private economic development. Under a practice known as eminent domain, a person's property may be condemned and the land converted for a greater "public use." It has traditionally been employed to eliminate slums, or to build highways, schools or other public works.

Bye bye Neighborhoods (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bal-te.domain20feb20,1,3920584.story?coll=bal-home-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true)

It has been almost a generation since the Poletown neighborhood here was demolished to make room for a General Motors Cadillac plant, and in the sprawling factory's vast parking lots and neatly landscaped campus there are no signs of the 1,300 houses, 140 businesses and six churches that were razed or the pitched battle to save one of the city's oldest ethnic enclaves.

The memory of Detroit's Poletown has cropped up instead in communities across the country over the past 20 years, as dozens of municipalities and courts in at least 10 states have relied on a landmark ruling from the Michigan Supreme Court in that fight to justify using the powers of eminent domain for economic revitalization.

Obviously a huge case coming up starting tomorrow. This can affect the ability of governments to take private land for public development.

It is very interesting to note the different take here among the various articles. The LA Times seems to practice some weird contorted slippery-slope reasoning that moves to the government not being able to even regulate work hours or minimum wage.

The most interesting thing for me is that the attempt to limit eminent domain is labeled in many of these articles as a conservative cause. To me the labels are hard to apply at all in this instance. If you support the government seizing an entire neighborhood of homes to give the land and tax breaks to say, a Walmart that is going to be built, is that liberal or conservative. If you oppose the ability to do this should that be liberal or conservative?

I feel that this is a good issue to currently have before the court. In California, most cities have created redevelopment agencies that no longer attempt to just deal with older run down or blighted parts of town. Instead these agencies are often used as a means of bringing in large box retailers and the sale tax dollars that come with them.

The counterargument of course is that without the use of eminent domain, cities will not be able to adapt and change to the needs of a contemporary and growing society. The grabs might be made to enable large private/public partnerships that bring in large stores and big sales tax dollars, but they also serve a public interest in modernizing and insuring services that are necessary for a modern city.

The downside again is well stated here..

Critics counter that municipalities have overstepped their eminent domain powers and subverted the process into a huge corporate giveaway. A 2003 study by the Institute for Justice found that from 1998 through 2002, state and local governments seized or threatened to take more than 10,000 homes and small businesses for private development projects, many with dubious public benefit.

The study mentioned one instance in West Palm Beach County, Fla., where a family's home was condemned so the manager of a planned golf course could live in it. In another case from Lakewood, Ohio, officials designated a neighborhood of colonial homes as "blighted" - one step to begin condemnation proceedings - because the homes had small yards and lacked two-car garages. New plans for the neighborhood called for upscale condominiums and retail shops.

The study singled out Maryland, along with California, Kansas, Michigan and Ohio, as leading other states in the number of private-use condemnations filed in public records. Among cities, Detroit took first place.

How do you think this should be resolved? Sure the burger stand you grew up with on the beach is cute, neighborly and gives a sense of local flavor and community, but can it truly serve the same purpose it did when it was constructed. The new mega-McDonalds that replaces it, likely against the will of the previous owner, serves more people, is modern, and likely brings in a lot more tax dollars, but also contributes the a creating a conformity and sameness about everywhere you go.

Your thoughts and views are welcome,

Nick

Scott
02-21-2005, 11:18 PM
I think in this case the government is over stepping its bounds. If a block is a run down slum is the city in part to blame for not enforcing the law and city codes on buildings? Is the only solution to rip it down and put up something else?

applenut
02-21-2005, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by Scott
I think in this case the government is over stepping its bounds. If a block is a run down slum is the city in part to blame for not enforcing the law and city codes on buildings? Is the only solution to rip it down and put up something else?

private use? no
public use/works projects? yes

Otherwise we would not have an interstate system and countless other public works projects/facilities.

shetline
02-21-2005, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by applenut
private use? no
public use/works projects? yes
The problem is that in a lot of these cases the Local Powers That Be try to blur the lines between public good and private use by talking up the supposed jobs and economic development and increased tax base, yadda yadda, that some private developer or group of developers will bring into a given area... if only they can get these annoying private homes and annoying little private businesses out of the way, which dare to stand in the Way of Progress.

While I suppose the specifics of any particular Eminent Domain case might need to be considered, my feeling is that 99% of the time it's utterly wrong to take someone's home away for the so-called public good when the recipient of the property is going to be a private concern. For the remaining 1%, people forced to move had better be well-compensated -- and I don't mean just top-dollar for their acquired property, but an ongoing cut of the profits made from the use of their former land.

Even for public works, I think all possible alternatives should be thoroughly exhausted before Eminent Domain is considered.

hardeeharhar
02-22-2005, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by applenut
private use? no
public use/works projects? yes

Otherwise we would not have an interstate system and countless other public works projects/facilities.

In cases where a slum is involved or a crack house, etc and back taxes are clearly owed, the city has an obligation to remove the residence to prevent further crimes. This does create a bombed out look -- so the city needs to do this only when they have a developer or public moneys ready to fill in the gaps so to speak. A responsible push towards full private land use within a city is completely within the bounds of a city government.

Scott
02-22-2005, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by applenut
private use? no
public use/works projects? yes

Otherwise we would not have an interstate system and countless other public works projects/facilities.

Maybe you could be more articulate? I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

midwinter
02-22-2005, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Scott
Maybe you could be more articulate? I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

He's saying that the reason interstates in cities tend to run through the slums (take New Orleans, for example) is because the city could seize those lands through eminent domain.

Scott
02-22-2005, 11:09 PM
What? How did you figure that out from his post?

applenut
02-22-2005, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Scott
What? How did you figure that out from his post?

How could you not?

sometimes I wonder about you man:no:

FallenFromTheTree
02-23-2005, 12:17 AM
The matter here seems to be more of an issue where powerful developers are using their influence with local politicians to cheat
owners out of their property that would bring much higher value AFTER
rezoning to the higher density or commercial use.

It becomes a question of defining " Fair Market Value "

Your family may own a small home in the path of progress but the
condemned value does not take into consideration that there will soon
be a 20 story condo building where you raised your family.

The developer is approved for the higher density zoning easily
after the previous owner leaves because the taxable value of that
property has then increased by leaps and bounds, thus benefiting
the local government as well.

Generally this happens to the ill informed, the poor and the elderly.

What a country

midwinter
02-23-2005, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by Scott
What? How did you figure that out from his post?

Because I read things and explain them to people for a living. ;)

Scott
02-23-2005, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by applenut
How could you not?

sometimes I wonder about you man:no:


Wonder? Maybe

Certain? No

Otherwise one can never know wft someone else was trying to say.

SDW2001
02-24-2005, 06:46 PM
In Coatesville, PA, we have a world-class eminent domain dispute happening.

Dick and Nancy Saha own a medium sized farm (about 41 acres) outside of the Coatesville City limits. The City condemned their farm about two years ago to build a...wait for it.....golf course.

The City tied the eminent domain proceedings to its Tax Incremental Financing redevelopment plan. Essentially, the city will, with approval of the local school board, divert some of the new property tax (school tax) revenue that comes in from new development to enhance the City's infastructure so it can support the already planned and contracted redevelopment projects within City limits. In and of itself, this poses some potential problems. Since the TIF district (blighted area) will include residential developments, the concern is that an already financially stressed school district will be burdened with hundreds or thousands of new students, while simultaneously losing some of the associated tax new revenue (though the City will not take all of the revenue, only a portion, anticpated to be $40 million over the length ofthe TIF program....up to 20 years).

I go into all of this, because as I said...the City just publicly (in the form of a letter to the taxpayers) LINKED the TIF program with the Saha condemnation. They outright lied in this letter, claiming that the Sahas (an senior couple with strong community ties) were "considering" the City's latest offer to buy their land (which again, is outside City limits!). The Saha propoerty is not in the TIF zone.

While the City claims that the proposed Iron Hawk golf course (Coatesville is a semi-functional steel town) is essential the revitilization of Coatesville, the battle has been raging. The Sahas have of course gone to court. In November of 2002, voters approved amendments to the City's charter making it illegal for the City own and operate a golf course or recreation facility outside city limits. Those amendments are also tied up in court to determine their legality.

The case remains undecided at this point. Beyond the obvious legal actions, there are other political forces at work that I cannot talk about right now ;) Suffice it to say that things may be looking up for the Sahas shortly.

I think it's a fine example of abuse of power by local governments. No government should be able to take land to operate its own private enterprise for a purpose like this.

Scott
02-24-2005, 09:41 PM
Here in ann arbor they (we?) approved using the parks and rec' money (and something to do with libraries) to buy up development rights outside the city. There's no "imminent domain" issue because the sellers are willing.

SDW2001
02-24-2005, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Scott
Here in ann arbor they (we?) approved using the parks and rec' money (and something to do with libraries) to buy up development rights outside the city. There's no "imminent domain" issue because the sellers are willing.

Well that's a different thing.