Another terrorist gets a pass...

[NaplesX]

Well indonesia lets a AQ leader get away with murder...

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBOFJKTU5E.html

Thoughts?

[groverat]

I'd like to see more content from you aside from this "Here's a link. Thoughts?" garbage.

I quote the posting guidelines:
Threads with no original content will not be allowed. Example: posting a link or quoting and article while contributing little to nothing of your own.

Either make a developed argument or don't bother starting threads.

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by groverat
I'd like to see more content from you aside from this "Here's a link. Thoughts?" garbage.

I quote the posting guidelines:
Threads with no original content will not be allowed. Example: posting a link or quoting and article while contributing little to nothing of your own.

Either make a developed argument or don't bother starting threads. Ok fine...

It seems to me that Indonesia has been intimidated by the terrorists and that can't be good for that region.

It appears to me that muslim extremists are growing in numbers like weeds and no-one appears to be trying to fight them back. It could be another Afghanistan in 10 years. Possibly less.

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by groverat
I'd like to see more content from you aside from this "Here's a link. Thoughts?" garbage.

I quote the posting guidelines:
Threads with no original content will not be allowed. Example: posting a link or quoting and article while contributing little to nothing of your own.

Either make a developed argument or don't bother starting threads. You seem to be fixated on me. Is there something I did to you personally, or am I just imagining things?

Anyway... Sorry. I did not realize I was so flagrantly breaking the rules. I will attempt to pontificate, perhaps even bloviate more on my initial posts. :embarrass :)

[groverat]

Originally posted by NaplesX
You seem to be fixated on me. Is there something I did to you personally, or am I just imagining things?

You'd be surprised how many posters here accuse me of fixating just on them because I tell them what the rules are.

Apparently I am obsessed with about 20 different people at a time. :rolleyes:

[New]

How Indonesia, the most populous muslim country in the world, spaning several thousand islands, can in any way come to resemble Afgahnistan is beyond me...

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by New
How Indonesia, the most populous muslim country in the world, spaning several thousand islands, can in any way come to resemble Afgahnistan is beyond me... I meant situation-wise not geographic-wise.

[segovius]

Originally posted by NaplesX
I meant situation-wise not geographic-wise.

But I thought Afghanistan was all hunky-dory now that it has been liberated and democratised ? Surely you can't be saying that there's problems there ? :wow:

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by segovius
But I thought Afghanistan was all hunky-dory now that it has been liberated and democratised ? Surely you can't be saying that there's problems there ? :wow: Come on "progressive" people. pre war Afghanistan.

And Afghanistan is not perfect but it is much better than when it was under the Taliban. I am sure we would all agree with that. Maybe not...

[hardeeharhar]

Originally posted by NaplesX
Come on "progressive" people. pre war Afghanistan.

And Afghanistan is not perfect but it is much better than when it was under the Taliban. I am sure we would all agree with that. Maybe not...

Better, but not even close to reasonable. Mmmm, heroin...

[segovius]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Better, but not even close to reasonable. Mmmm, heroin...

<cough>Taleban</cough>

[Hassan i Sabbah]

They haven't all got a pass.
(http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/07/1060145765603.html?oneclick=true)
Amrozi bin Nurhasyim sentenced to death, two others as well. One of the four, a gentleman called Idris, got off on a technicality and is going to have ten years instead.

It's not like they're letting people off to spite anyone. This guy was found guilty of a lesser charge, and although I don't know the details of the case, from reading up on this in the past fifteen minutes direct involvement seems to amount to offering a blessing to the bombers three months before the event.

I don't know. I don't want to be the terrorist defender, but the guy's just a shouty radical imam, not some geezer with a satellite phone and bin Laden on speed dial.

He's not a good man, but he's hardly an organisational mastermind.

[Hassan i Sabbah]

By the way, when you say 'Another terrorist gets a pass', who else are you talking about? How many other terrorists have 'got a pass'?

Please name one. :)

[bergz]

Originally posted by NaplesX
Well indonesia lets a AQ leader get away with murder...

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBOFJKTU5E.html

Thoughts?
Wow. Maybe Ashcroft could show them how to really prosecute terrorists.

To date: arrests related to terrorism in US since 2001.
4000+ (don't know because of a certain piece of legislation that makes those numbers super-secret)

To date: convictions related to terrorism in US since 2001.
1

Am I the only one who reads Harper's Index here? D'Oh, I just showed my hand...

--B

[sammi jo]

Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
By the way, when you say 'Another terrorist gets a pass', who else are you talking about? How many other terrorists have 'got a pass'?

Please name one. :)

Here's two: Indonesia's former thug-in-chief, Suharto, notorious war criminal. He got a pass, but what do you expect with being one the top 10 richest people in the world with a personal fortune of $16 billion +?

And secondly, Henry Kissinger (amongst unnamed others in senior US government positions then and currently), who endorsed and supported the genocide of (an absolute minimum) 200,000 East Timorese civilians by Suharto's regime.

"Terrorist" is an inappropriately bland descriptor for people such as these, who render the average Hamas and al Qaeda member positively angelic in comparison.

Carry on.

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by sammi jo
Here's two: Indonesia's former thug-in-chief, Suharto, notorious war criminal. He got a pass, but what do you expect with being one the top 10 richest people in the world with a personal fortune of $16 billion +?

And secondly, Henry Kissinger (amongst unnamed others in senior US government positions then and currently), who endorsed and supported the genocide of (an absolute minimum) 200,000 East Timorese civilians by Suharto's regime.

"Terrorist" is an inappropriately bland descriptor for people such as these, who render the average Hamas and al Qaeda member positively angelic in comparison.

Carry on. You're further out there than i thought...

Carry on.

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by groverat
I'd like to see more content from you aside from this "Here's a link. Thoughts?" garbage.

I quote the posting guidelines:
Threads with no original content will not be allowed. Example: posting a link or quoting and article while contributing little to nothing of your own.

Either make a developed argument or don't bother starting threads. Oh yeah, by the way. In the other thread that you are referring to, I actually spend time to alter the map that I then uploaded to a server and linked to my post.

That is not just some map that i pulled of of some site to support my argument. I had to do that work myself. And not that that was such a big deal or anything. But I consider that contributing content.

Or perhaps i am wrong?

[sammi jo]

Originally posted by NaplesX
You're further out there than i thought...

Carry on.

wow! I didn't know you endorsed the activities of war criminals. :wow:

Carry on

[groverat]

He has probably never even heard of Suharto. It's just that "everything right-wing is great" tendon reacting on reflex.

[segovius]

Originally posted by sammi jo
wow! I didn't know you endorsed the activities of war criminals. :wow:

Carry on

Well he did the map himself and it has the Uzbekistan dictatorship as an ally so maybe it shouldn't be a surprise - I suppose the boiling victims in oil routine is part of the necessary steps needed to protect freedom.

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by sammi jo
wow! I didn't know you endorsed the activities of war criminals. :wow:

Carry on War criminals are charged and punished. Maybe I missed it but when was Henry Kissinger ever charged with war crimes?

Just because you say he is a war criminal, does not make it so. What court convicted him?

[bergz]

Originally posted by NaplesX
War criminals are charged and punished. Maybe I missed it but when was Henry Kissinger ever charged with war crimes?

Just because you say he is a war criminal, does not make it so. What court convicted him?

Why don't people google more before posting?

Kissinger cannot travel to half of the countries in the world because they have extradition treaties that would send him to actually take the stand in one of the many cases he has been called to testify for.

Read: France, Chile, United Kingdom, Argentina,

Read this: http://slate.com/id/2074678

"Moreover, on Sept. 10, 2001, a civil suit was filed in a Washington, D.C., federal court, charging Kissinger with murder. The suit, brought by the survivors of Gen. Rene Schneider of Chile, asserts that Kissinger gave the order for the elimination of this constitutional officer of a democratic country because he refused to endorse plans for a military coup."

--B

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by bergz
Why don't people google more before posting?

Kissinger cannot travel to half of the countries in the world because they have extradition treaties that would send him to actually take the stand in one of the many cases he has been called to testify for.

Read: France, Chile, United Kingdom, Argentina,

Read this: http://slate.com/id/2074678

"Moreover, on Sept. 10, 2001, a civil suit was filed in a Washington, D.C., federal court, charging Kissinger with murder. The suit, brought by the survivors of Gen. Rene Schneider of Chile, asserts that Kissinger gave the order for the elimination of this constitutional officer of a democratic country because he refused to endorse plans for a military coup."

--B What court has indicted him? I'll wait...

An anti-semi government like france accuses a jew of war crimes and that throws up no red flags to you?

France has no laws allowing convictions in absentia?

Conspiracy theories, accusations, and innuendo.

Wasn't he a Nobel Peace Prize winner?

What court has convicted him?

[bergz]

Originally posted by NaplesX
What court has indicted him? I'll wait...

An anti-semi government like france accuses a jew of war crimes and that throws up no red flags to you?

France has no laws allowing convictions in absentia?

Conspiracy theories, accusations, and innuendo.

Wasn't he a Nobel Peace Prize winner?

What court has convicted him?

And there you have it. I'm done with AO for a while. This is just ridiculous. Who is this guy, Scott II?

--B

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by bergz
And there you have it. I'm done with AO for a while. This is just ridiculous. Who is this guy, Scott II?

--B I can't say that I know a lot about Henry Kissinger. so I would think that the question I asked was reasonable.

Has a court convicted him?

You quote an obvious hit piece on him and expect me to say "OK slate says its so..."

Since this conversation started, I have read stories from both side and have found no conviction, am I missing it?

[midwinter]

Originally posted by NaplesX
I can't say that I know a lot about Henry Kissinger. so I would think that the question I asked was reasonable.

Has a court convicted him?

You quote an obvious hit piece on him and expect me to say "OK slate says its so..."

Since this conversation started, I have read stories from both side and have found no conviction, am I missing it?

I like how you require a conviction for Kissinger but not for anyone else you want to call a terrorist or a war criminal. Man, life must be way easier when you can just move the goalposts around to satisfy your cognitive dissonance.

I'm surprised no one has recommended it, but you should stop by your public library and read Christopher Hitchens's (former good liberal, now fire-breathing favorite son of the pro-war in Iraq crowd) two part essay series on Kissinger's war crimes in Harper's.

[sammi jo]

Originally posted by midwinter
I like how you require a conviction for Kissinger but not for anyone else you want to call a terrorist or a war criminal. Man, life must be way easier when you can just move the goalposts around to satisfy your cognitive dissonance.

I'm surprised no one has recommended it, but you should stop by your public library and read Christopher Hitchens's (former good liberal, now fire-breathing favorite son of the pro-war in Iraq crowd) two part essay series on Kissinger's war crimes in Harper's.

Not forgetting of course that Kissinger was the first contender named to head the 9-11 'Independent Commission' by Bush. The Bush administration did their damnedest to nix that inquiry for 411 days before reluctantly giving in on account of public outrage. It was a similar outcry that Henry K. himself acknowledged that caused him to step down.

An (multiple) alleged war criminal overseeing an inquiry into the murder of thousands doesn't look that clever. At least he had the presence of mind to quit. Just what the hell was Bush thinking when he named HK for the 911 inquiry???

:mad:

[NaplesX]

Originally posted by midwinter
I like how you require a conviction for Kissinger but not for anyone else you want to call a terrorist or a war criminal. Man, life must be way easier when you can just move the goalposts around to satisfy your cognitive dissonance.

I'm surprised no one has recommended it, but you should stop by your public library and read Christopher Hitchens's (former good liberal, now fire-breathing favorite son of the pro-war in Iraq crowd) two part essay series on Kissinger's war crimes in Harper's. You'll have to forgive me if I seem a little flippant... What exactly would you have me call the radical Muslims that seek to kill you and I?

I am sure that you can see (no I'm not) the folly of criminally trying every one that is shot at or shoots at the military in a time of war.

How long ago were these accusations made? (rhetorical) In this time has any court in the entire world convicted him of war crimes? No? Why not?

From HRW:

http://www.hrw.org/community/bookreviews/hitchens.htm

I feel this is a balanced review, and it is clear that this issue is not black and white.

IMO this is a left wing conspiracy. However, if Kissinger was actually part of war crimes he should be taken to trial. That has not happened. There is a reason and it isn't all just Fat-cats protecting Fat-cats.

I now see where the whole "indict GWB for war crimes" thing comes from, though.

This was all before my interest in politics was sparked. More reading is in order.

[sammi jo]

Originally posted by NaplesX
You'll have to forgive me if I seem a little flippant... What exactly would you have me call the radical Muslims that seek to kill you and I?

I am sure that you can see (no I'm not) the folly of criminally trying every one that is shot at or shoots at the military in a time of war.

How long ago were these accusations made? (rhetorical) In this time has any court in the entire world convicted him of war crimes? No? Why not?

From HRW:

http://www.hrw.org/community/bookreviews/hitchens.htm

I feel this is a balanced review, and it is clear that this issue is not black and white.

IMO this is a left wing conspiracy. However, if Kissinger was actually part of war crimes he should be taken to trial. That has not happened. There is a reason and it isn't all just Fat-cats protecting Fat-cats.

I now see where the whole "indict GWB for war crimes" thing comes from, though.

This was all before my interest in politics was sparked. More reading is in order.

Believe me, if anyone could perform a citizen's arrest on that bozo, and did their damnedest to get him extradited to one of many countries that would try him for crimes, including war crimes, I'm sure a conviction of sorts would be forthcoming. I wish this could happen as he is a stain on America. Evidence against him is even stronger than that against other notorious scumbags, like Hussein and Milosevic.

[midwinter]

Originally posted by NaplesX
You'll have to forgive me if I seem a little flippant... What exactly would you have me call the radical Muslims that seek to kill you and I?

Bad guys? And it should be "you and me."

I am sure that you can see (no I'm not) the folly of criminally trying every one that is shot at or shoots at the military in a time of war.

Then you really ought to consider very seriously what you consider a war and what you do not. Indeed, perhaps it is folly to consider trying the terrah-ists who masterminded the WTC attacks, since it's folly to try everyone who shoots or is shot at....

I feel this is a balanced review, and it is clear that this issue is not black and white.

Good. Seriously. Good.

IMO this is a left wing conspiracy.

So is the moon landing. And the JFK assassination. And... Listen. Seriously. Listen to me here. I'm about to blow your entire worldview out of the water.

You ready? You might want to have a loved one near.

Ok.

Here goes.

Liberalism cannot BOTH be a fringe group AND control everything. For example: how can John Kerry be BOTH "the most liberal senator" AND a consistent flip-flopper?

More reading is in order. [/B]

Indeed. I've been saying this for a long time.