Final Cut Pro for X

[Brad]

Well, any info?
That's one of my few reasons for rebooting into OS 9. :mad:

I heard a while back that it was supposed to be nearing completion late spring '02 and sheduled to be released at MWNY'02.

[Logan Cale]

I really hope it will come out soon. I need to do lots of video work and I don't wanna use OS 9. :)

[Michaelm8000]

I wonder if they are going to change the GUI. I hope they keep the same feel but just revamp it fo look it's bast in OS X.

[Cipher13]

The FCP UI is awesome; changing it for the sake of OSX would be extremely dumb.

Why do I have no doubt they'll do it :\

[Logan Cale]

I doubt they'll change it much. It just works. Make the buttons a little more Aqua-y and it'll be perfect.

[Michaelm8000]

[quote]Originally posted by Cipher13:
<strong>The FCP UI is awesome; changing it for the sake of OSX would be extremely dumb.

Why do I have no doubt they'll do it :\</strong><hr></blockquote>
I did not mean toatly change it and make it aqau. I just ment make them a little more photo realistic.

[macway]

I can't see Apple releasing FCP X in January, it's too soon. I hope too they don't change the UI, it's rocking as it is.

Same with iTunes' UI. Some apps shouldn't look too Aqua IMHO.

[prutz11]

There was a beta behind the apple firewall about 1 month ago for a VERY brief time. I heard that it would be final by the end of the year... Now would Apple hold it till Macworld? Sure.

[Pegges]

Re the UI: Let's hope Apple adds a FCP theme to the OS rather than changing the FCP UI for Aqua proper. That would rock.

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Pegges ]</p>

[eat@me]

Apple will release FCP for OSX Dec 4 at
DV Expo. See <a href="http://www.thinksecret.com." target="_blank">http://www.thinksecret.com.</a>

It's about f***king time. I am holding off on moving to OSX until that comes out.

Also rumors that FCP for OSX will increase render time by a big factor. Lastly, Sorensen 3.1 codec for QT is now Multiprocossor enabled.

let the good times roll.
renoski

ciao-der

[Leonis]

[quote]Originally posted by Renoski:
<strong>Apple will release FCP for OSX Dec 4 at
DV Expo. See <a href="http://www.thinksecret.com." target="_blank">http://www.thinksecret.com.</a>

It's about f***king time. I am holding off on moving to OSX until that comes out.

Also rumors that FCP for OSX will increase render time by a big factor. Lastly, Sorensen 3.1 codec for QT is now Multiprocossor enabled.

let the good times roll.
renoski

ciao-der</strong><hr></blockquote>

I too think DV Expo is the perfect time for the announcement (doesn't mean it will ship) of FCP X

Yeah...I have Sorenson 3.1 Pro codec and it flies with MP machines....the speed is roughly 190% of the SP machines with the same clock rate :)

[ 11-13-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>

[Belle]

[quote]Originally posted by Renoski:
<strong>Also rumors that FCP for OSX will increase render time by a big factor.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Please tell me you meant to say decrease?!

I'm willing to wait for Final Cut Pro, so long as they do a really great job on it. The wonderful iDVD 2 gives me hope that perhaps Final Cut Pro will be a Cocoa app. It deserves to be Apple's flagship product on OS X.

[Leonis]

I think he means the the speed increase, not the render time increase.

[eat@me]

[quote]Originally posted by Leonis:
<strong>I think he means the the speed increase, not the render time increase.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sorry, I meant to say that render times will decrease. under OSX, rumors are that rendering performance will increase. sorry for the confusion.

i wonder what this means for the matrox rendering card. Q. will it warrant a $1000 price tag? I guess only if you are doing lots of After Effects.

I am looking forward to this and it is a big reason to upgrade to OSX. It is the only thing holding me back at this point.

Phil Shiller, VP Mktg at Apple is doing the
keynote.

I imagine it will ship sometime in January 2002.

[pfflam]

I heard that the makers of RTmac have allready bagged future production, even though they spent alot on R&D, but considering the near real time rendering in the future with OSX.... we can spend that extra 1000 on equipment!!

[Brad]

Interesting news from Apple!!

[quote]Quoted from <a href="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106582" target="_blank">Enhancements delivered with Mac OS X Update 10.1.1</a>
<strong>Provides enhanced application stability when a FireWire-based (DV) camera is disconnected in certain situations when Final Cut Pro is open; improves data transfer reliability</strong><hr></blockquote>

Okay, this either means that somehow it is possible to run FCP in Classic... or better yet Final Cut Pro is already running in OS X in Cupertino!

:D :D :D :D

[Leonis]

So.....FCP X on Dec 4th. FOR SURE! :D

[Nebagakid]

yes, word :cool:

[super]

[quote] i wonder what this means for the matrox rendering card. Q. will it warrant a $1000 price tag? I guess only if you are doing lots of After Effects. <hr></blockquote>

The Matrox card doesn't speed up effects in After Effects only FCP.

[quote]I heard that the makers of RTmac have allready bagged future production, even though they spent alot on R&D <hr></blockquote>

No. It's the promax card that has been cancelled. I haven't heard anything about the matrox card being cancelled.

Auroras Igniter is now doing single stream realtime effects on un-compressed video and Digital Voodoo's Card is doing real-time cross dissolves also on uncompressed video at 10bit.

I won't be able to leave OS9 until Final Cut, After Effects and Commmotion are all carbon.

[Leonis]

After Effects 5 runs fine under Classic unless you allocate more than 438MB or RAM to it......

[DHagan4755]

Well if it isn't Final Cut Pro that's introduced, it will likely be a Mac OS X native version of Adobe Premiere. That's also highly possible at this point...given the fact Premiere was demoed in OS X-native beta mode at NAB back in April of this year.

[DHagan4755]

Bringing this thread back to the top...

The DV Expo is next Tuesday (Dec. 4th), and after the burst of info on the OS X-version two weeks ago, everything has gone mum. Anyone know of anything further...were mere days away from the expo....

[CosmoNut]

For those of you who like the FCP UI, apparently you haven't used Avid Xpress. It kicks FCP's arse as far as functionality goes.

Oh well. That's what you get for letting computer people design a video editing program. FCP's UI is still MUCH better than iMovie. Good golly it's horrible and totally counterintuitive!

[Michaelm8000]

[quote]Originally posted by CosmoNut:
<strong>For those of you who like the FCP UI, apparently you haven't used Avid Xpress. It kicks FCP's arse as far as functionality goes.

Oh well. That's what you get for letting computer people design a video editing program. FCP's UI is still MUCH better than iMovie. Good golly it's horrible and totally counterintuitive!</strong><hr></blockquote>


I find Avids GUI not nerly as good as FCP's. And FCP is WAY easyer to use than avid. Avid is a bitch.

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/mikesicons/Menu3.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/mikesicons/.Pictures/LightsPromo.png</a>

[Brad]

So, Avid has a better GUI that FCP? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
Let's have some pictures of Avid then.
I've never used it before.

[applenut]

[quote]Originally posted by CosmoNut:
<strong>For those of you who like the FCP UI, apparently you haven't used Avid Xpress. It kicks FCP's arse as far as functionality goes.

Oh well. That's what you get for letting computer people design a video editing program. FCP's UI is still MUCH better than iMovie. Good golly it's horrible and totally counterintuitive!</strong><hr></blockquote>

funny. video pros across the world seem to think otherwise

[a holck]

Regarding the Avid Interface think about this:

The Avid Mediacomposer is at version 10.5 right now, and the app is identical to Avid Xpress (features are dependent on the dongle)

Xpress DV is only at version 2, but still gets most its interface features from the over 10 years of R&D.

Being a daily Avid mediacomposer and Fcp user, my observations are like this:

Avid: the best Editing features from viever into timeline, and editing in timeline with in/out points. Also the trim features, and slip / slide with keyboard shortcuts rules. Keyboard interface (which is fully configurable) is an editors dream, with the possibillity of adding a menu item to a botton or creating a macro.

FCP: moving segments in the timeline is much more elegant and powerfull than avids, FX interface is better (Not taking the Avid symphony into consiterration) and speed/motion fx metaphor is much much bettter. Also overall mouse based operations are more powerfull.

This is comparing the full avid mediacomposer app to fcp, as I hvent tried Xpress Dv.

Also speaking of platforms, the avid is on a 800 mhz pentium III Xeon IBM with RDram, FCP is on my DP 450

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: a holck ]</p>

[DHagan4755]

Guys,

Who give a shit about the Avid software...I'm interested in the OS X version of Final Cut Pro for Christ's sake! After all, that's the title of this friggin' thread. If you want to talk about Avid vs. Final Cut Pro create a thread about it, but please don't tangent the subject and get into pissing contests over which is better.

I want my OS X Version of Final Cut Pro dammit! :mad:

[Leonis]

Read my "I got some news on Final Cut Pro 3" in this forum

[Nebagakid]

the FCP UI is so pretty becuase the window bars are thin so they dont take up too much space. I am very interested to see how Apple changes the UI, if they do! :eek: <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[CosmoNut]

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

funny. video pros across the world seem to think otherwise</strong><hr></blockquote>

From what I understand, video pros (in Broadcast and Cable television at least) use Avid or Media 100.

Just now is FCP becoming more popular because it's a fairly viable program and it costs a LOT less than the others.

FCP on G4 867Mhz: $5,000 give or take
Avid Xpress on whatever: $15,000 and up
Getting into a pissing contest: Priceless


:D

[myahmac]

i just talked to a guy from fox yesterday and when i told him that i use fcp he started to chuckle. he explains to a degree how his 30,000 dollar camera works then invites me to use one of his editing systems that he uses for work. this may just be cuz he is from an older generation but he didn't even like avid and im talking about the full blow 70 grand version. just thought i'd relay from a real pro.

[CosmoNut]

I'm just being honest, but that didn't make sense to me. What does the camera have anything to do with it? What DOES he edit on if he doesn't like Avid?

[Osakans]

[quote]Originally posted by myahmac:
<strong>i just talked to a guy from fox yesterday and when i told him that i use fcp he started to chuckle. he explains to a degree how his 30,000 dollar camera works then invites me to use one of his editing systems that he uses for work. this may just be cuz he is from an older generation but he didn't even like avid and im talking about the full blow 70 grand version. just thought i'd relay from a real pro.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sounds like a blowhard to me. It's all about the right tool for the job. The networks don't have unlimited number of half-million to multi-million dollar edit bays.

Sure, FCP isn't going to push out the top-end custom editing suites, but that's not what it's built to do. Anyone who thought it would is delusional. It does what it's built to do extremely well -- provide a stable editing platform that can handle a wide range of media formats and run on a mass-market computer and operating system. Compare FCP and a Titanium G4 laptop to the Panasonic AJ-LT95 laptop editing system costing $42,000.

When you say "real pro," just bear in mind that you're actually talking about the small number of people who work in national broadcast television. Saying that everyone else is not a "real pro" is like saying that your doctor is not a "real doctor" because he or she doesn't do heart surgery at a major hospital in New York or Boston.

[CosmoNut]

[quote]Originally posted by Osakans:
<strong>

When you say "real pro," just bear in mind that you're actually talking about the small number of people who work in national broadcast television. Saying that everyone else is not a "real pro" is like saying that your doctor is not a "real doctor" because he or she doesn't do heart surgery at a major hospital in New York or Boston.</strong><hr></blockquote>

But there are many "real pros" that work on Avids, Media 100, etc. at the local level. I'd imagine a majority of "local" TV stations run them. I consider those people just as "real pro" as the network level.

To keep this thread on topic, however, I'd like to see what Apple does with FCP for OS X. I'd imagine they may add some new features but keep the interface fairly similar.

It'd be nice if they could shrink down the manual, though. Over 1400 pages is a bit excessive if you ask me. :rolleyes:

[Osakans]

[quote]Originally posted by CosmoNut:
<strong>

But there are many "real pros" that work on Avids, Media 100, etc. at the local level. I'd imagine a majority of "local" TV stations run them. I consider those people just as "real pro" as the network level.

(snip)

It'd be nice if they could shrink down the manual, though. Over 1400 pages is a bit excessive if you ask me. :rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree entirely. My point was in response to myahmac who had implied that only people shooting and editing in a national broadcast environment were "real pros." My point about the doctors was that just because someone isn't working in the most public and "sexy" segment of a field doesn't make them any less professional. Clearly there are lots of people doing exciting, creative and polished work at the network affiliate and small cable network level.

With respect to new features, etc. for FCP 3, I'm just as eager to hear as the next person. In particular, now that iDVD 2 has come out for OS X, it's a pain to have to flip back and forth between operating systems for editing and DVD authoring.

I also agree about the manual. Every review treats it glowingly, but I suspect most of the reviewers haven't actually tried to read it front to back (which I did and gave up on after about 1/3 of the way through).

[Nebagakid]

WELL, TOMMOROW IS THE BIG DAY

TOMMOROW, AT 2-3 PST, CAPT. SCHILLER WILL ANNOUNCE, AS QUOTED BY DVEXPO.COM: [quote] the growing number of professional video solutions available on Mac OS X.<hr></blockquote>

PLEASE, APPLE WOULD BE A FOOL NOT TO ANNOUNCE FINAL CUT PRO FOR MAC OS X,

THIS IS WHERE APPLE ****S WINDOWS STRAIT IN THE ARSE


I PREDICT, NO, I FORESHADOW AS IF I KNOW THE ENDING OF THIS VOLUME, THAT IN TWO YEARS TIME..... APPLE WILL RISE AGAIN AND DESTROY ALL YOUR FEEBLE OSes

AND THEY SAID:

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US :cool:

word :cool:

[Leonis]

We should also see DVD Studio Pro 2.0 tomorrow

I don't have insider info on this but it actually is common sense. <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[Nebagakid]

you think? i dont...'cuase there are a smaller group of people who use DVD STudio pro

The groups of people are like this::::

iMoves&lt;iDVD&lt;Final Cut Pro&lt;DVD STUDIO PRO

FCP and iDVD could be flipped, but just saying, those who are using DVD STudio are in no rush if their systems are running fine without X...Apple has no real reason to do it before March...when they MUST...must have all their apps done

even eric's solitare sampler

[kormac77]

Tommorow.

We will see;

FinalCutPro 3.0 for OS9 & OS X
: RealTime effect for DV
: Great Title generator
: Professinal Color correction
And Many Many more function
with New User interface

DVD Studio Pro 2.0 for OS9 & OS X


QuickTime 5.5 for OS9 & OS X
:support MPEG-4 & possibly MPEG-2 ( IF License deal has been agreed. )

We will see.
:)

[Xool]

Sounds tasty!

[Leonis]

[quote]Originally posted by kormac77:
<strong>Tommorow.

We will see;

FinalCutPro 3.0 for OS9 & OS X
: RealTime effect for DV
: Great Title generator
: Professinal Color correction
And Many Many more function
with New User interface
</strong><hr></blockquote>

According to the ex-FCP team member that I talked to FCP 3 should be OSX only. He isn't 100% sure...but should be at least 70% of chance.

[Brad]

Nebagakid:

I think your &lt;'s should be &gt;'s. ;)

I'm dying here waiting on the FCP3 announcement! MacNN has a report of a guy seeing posters for FCP3. Woo-hoo!

[The Rootwitch]

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/promo_finalcutpro3.gif

I just saw that at the Apple store, but when I click on it it still goes to FCP 2.

[Michaelm8000]

Yep. I just saw that img also. We will know the spisifics in a sec. But juging by the aqua iTools looking logo it will work on OS X!

[prutz11]

[quote]Originally posted by The Rootwitch:
<strong>http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/promo_finalcutpro3.gif

I just saw that at the Apple store, but when I click on it it still goes to FCP 2.</strong><hr></blockquote>

HAHAHA! I saw it to... refreshed and it was gone... whoops I guess they posted a bit to soon!!!! YEAH FCP 3!!!

[The Rootwitch]

Final Cut Pro 3
Offline. Online. Real-time.
The complete solution for professional video editing.
Now for Mac OS X and Mac OS 9.

Offline. Online. Real-time.
Final Cut Pro 3 is a comprehensive and innovative editing solution with unprecedented flexibility featuring award-winning editing capabilities, precise color correction tools, and built-in compositing and effects. Revolutionary out-of-the-box G4 real-time effects deliver real-time playback without rendering or additional PCI hardware1. The new OfflineRT format yields over 40 minutes of footage per gigabyte, providing a highly efficient editing workflow. Designed for ease of use, with tools that can expertly handle virtually any video format, Final Cut Pro 3 is the complete solution for professional video editing. With a comprehensive set of award winning features that rival expensive proprietary editing systems, it’s no wonder why Final Cut Pro is quickly becoming the digital editing choice for professional editors and filmmakers worldwide.

Real-time breakthroughs
Desktop or laptop, real-time editing anywhere is now a reality. Final Cut Pro 3 features G4 real-time effects, the industry’s first host-processor-powered, dual-stream, real-time effects architecture. This out-of-the-box real-time solution delivers render-free playback of transitions, composites, titles, and color correction for DV and OfflineRT formats — no PCI card required. When combined with a PowerBook G4, Final Cut Pro 3 provides unprecedented real-time mobile editing capabilities.
G4 real-time effects scale with the power of your Mac. For the ultimate in render-free editing, use a dual processor Power Mac G4 and take advantage of multiple layers of real-time transitions, titles, and effects.

OfflineRT: Redefining offline editing
Final Cut Pro 3 dramatically reduces hard drive media limitations with OfflineRT, a new high-capacity format that yields over 40 minutes of high-quality offline video per gigabyte — on standard hard drives. OfflineRT delivers the industry’s easiest offline format for DV. Simply set Final Cut Pro 3 to capture OfflineRT video via FireWire and get on-the-fly transcoding from the 3.6MB per second data rate of DV down to the 660 Kb per second data rate of OfflineRT. The enhanced Media Manager in Final Cut Pro 3 also allows you to convert other finishing formats — M-JPEG, SD, and HD — to this highly mobile format. With a PowerBook G4 and OfflineRT, uncompromised mobile video editing has become a reality.

Color correction
Final Cut Pro 3 brings advanced primary and secondary color correctors to your desktop. With range checking, overlays, and hardware-accurate waveform and vectorscope monitors at your fingertips, you can easily monitor video levels. You also get a powerful new set of image controls to maintain broadcast-safe luminance and black, levels. New keyboard short-cuts let you quickly switch between shots for instant comparison and analysis of your clips.

Key Features
Efficient professional editing tools with mode-free source/record three-point editing model, match frame, trim-on-the-fly, multitrack trimming, extend edit, and more. JKL keyboard controls and extensive keyboard shortcuts. Keyboard overlays included. G4 real-time effects for render-free playback of dissolves, wipes, motion effects, titles, and color correction in the DV and OfflineRT formats.* Capture to other formats using third-party real-time capture cards. 2 OfflineRT — the new offline format that yields over 40 minutes of video per gigabyte on standard hard drives. Support for DV, M-JPEG, OfflineRT, Photo JPEG, NTSC and PAL uncompressed Standard Definition, and High Definition (1080i, 23.976, 24, 25, 29.97, and 30 fps). (Requires third-party PCI card.) Advanced primary and secondary color correction tools, including broadcast-safe filters and hardware-accurate waveform and vectorscope monitors. Integrated compositing with Adobe After Effects plug-in support, keyframe animation, and virtually unlimited layering. Media management features including project trimming, media consolidation, and offline-to-online conversion. EDL import/export and OMF audio export for integration with other finishing systems. QuickTime architecture ensures media compatibility with advanced effects applications and makes it easy to export to the web. Boris Calligraphy and CGM FXScript DVE for stunning 2D and 3D animated titles, video cubes, and more. (Included) Bias Peak DV audio editing tool includes time compression/expansion, VST plug-in support, batch file processing, and QuickTime movie support. (Included) The Voice Over tool allows you to capture audio directly to the timeline from a built-in or external microphone.

Deliver on DVD
Add Apple’s DVD Studio Pro to your system and create Hollywood-style interactive DVDs. Simply access the program’s ultrafast MPEG-2 codec via Final Cut Pro 3, and you’re creating high-quality video content on the industry’s most complete DVD authoring tool. Use a combination of Final Cut Pro 3 plus DVD Studio Pro on one of Apple’s SuperDrive-equipped G4 models, and you have an entire digital creation and delivery system with unmatched features and ease of use.
1 G4 real-time effects require a 500-MHz or faster single or dual processor Power Mac G4 or PowerBook G4. A 667-MHz PowerBook G4 is required for mobile G4 real-time effects in DV format.
2 See <a href="http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro" target="_blank">www.apple.com/finalcutpro</a> for a list of approved third-party real-time capture cards.

Contents

* Application and tutorial CDs
* User and tutorial guides
* Boris Calligraphy plug-ins
* CGM FXScript DVE plug-ins
* Bias Peak DV 3


Requirements

* Macintosh computer with an optical drive supporting CD-ROM format and minimum 300-MHz or faster PowerPC G3 or G4 processor and built-in FireWire.
(Note: 500-MHz or faster single or dual processor Power Mac G4 or PowerBook G4 required for G4 real-time effects. 667-MHz PowerBook G4 required for mobile G4 real-time effects in DV format)
* Mac OS 9.2.2 or Mac OS X v10.1.1
* QuickTime (included)
* 256MB of RAM (384MB recommended for G4 real-time effects).
* 40MB of available disk space required for installation

[Michaelm8000]

what do you think "online, offline, reltime" Means? Realtime effects?? Online video?? I can not WAIT!

[Gigawire]

this is so fun. I called 1800Myapple, talked for a minute to see what the deal was with FCP 3, as we're talking, her manger hands her the info on FCP3. So friday I will be migrated to OS X for DV work!!!

Total was 324.93

[super]

Whoa. Dual stream real-time effects powered by the processor on DV. WOW. That's nice. The offline option is also a great idea. This is going to be awesome if we get faster dual G4's or G5's in Jan. This looks like being an amazing peice of software.

[Logan Cale]

It requires Mac OS 9.2.2, so that must be coming out soon...

[prutz11]

How many converts is this one gonna get us.... Oh... you have to wait for it to render... on my apple it's real time...

[Logan Cale]

There should be a new TV ad for FCP 3. Any ahdeeaz?

[Michaelm8000]

http://a1792.g.akamai.net/7/1792/51/548ad9afde6f89/www.apple.com/pr/images/ref_fcp3_screen1.jpg

here is a screen shot!

[super]

The offline and realtime functions actually work really well together. Say im capturing HD to my mac via my cinewave card. If i capture to the apple offline codec (im assuming it retains time code) then i can edit in real-time and simply re-capture my clips in HD for the final render. I know these options have been around on avids and even on igniter cards before but it seems apple realises that their systems are becoming the standard for offline work and have built the feature right in.

I would also like to comment on the post made about avids and real pros not using FCP. Pro studios don't use FCP at the DV level because the quality is not good enough for broadcast. They are most definently using it to edit offline footage and many are now using it to edit online footage because of uncompressed capture cards like the Voodoo, Igniter and Cinewave. As hard drive prices continue to fall and processor speeds increase you will eventually see Avid go the way of the dinosaur. Why would anyone spend the money on an avid when a mac with a good uncompressed capture card (which is basically all an avid is anyway) and FCP will do the job for a 1/4 of the price.

Apple are going to own the desktop video market for a long time to come.

[prutz11]

Okay sorry for the double post but soulcrusher changed the title of his topic and I want the answer fast....

**
------------------------------------------------------------------------
OH NO! I just had a thought.... is Contour Designs going to be ready with drivers for my shuttle!!!! <a href="http://www.contourdesign.com/shuttlepro.htm" target="_blank">http://www.contourdesign.com/shuttlepro.htm</a> ... Dear god please say yes... anyone know anything!

__________________

[super]

Give them time. The drivers will be here before very long.

[Tarbash]

Wow Kormac, you nailed the FCP 3 release and features. Also the new DVD Studio Pro for OS X Schiller mentioned. :) Awesome!

I know this isn't software related, but what do you think of the possibility of the G5? Maybe you could breathe some new life into the LCD iMac and G5 threads in Future Hardware! ;)