Star Wars Episode 3 [Archive]

05-17-2005, 08:12 PM

Woohoo!!!

Just went to see the midnight screening here in Paris.

All I have to say is this: I *loathed* Episodes 1 & 2 (2 to a lesser extent, but still...)

Episode 3 makes up for these two in a big way.

The CGI is what it is supposed to be.... Yoda works totally. Even the trained eye would be impressed. Had me thinking of the animatronic version from the old episodes. The space battles and all the rest is really well done. Excellent amazing lighting. Very convincing. Not the crap of Ep1 and 2.

What a beginning!! Throws you right in the action. Great stuff!!

Some very nice tie-ins for Episode 4. The inside of the "Blockade Runner" had me smile. Lots of subtle hints to Episode 4. Including the totally 1970s haircuts and clothes :)

The acting holds.

The downfall of the Jedi is pretty powerful.

And just one word: Chewwy!!! Yeeah!

Anikin burning up is... ouch...

Jar Jar is seen twice. And thankfully never utters a single word nor makes a sound.

Low points: The salamander chicken Obi Wan rides. Its just silly.
Big let down: Darth Vader "acting" as he asks the fate of Padme and consequent reaction. That was just wrong.
The music. Absolutely nothing original . Re-hash from Ep 1 and 4-5-6. Guess Williams is getting bored and old.

PS Yoda... kicks... ass. Best character in the whole thing. I'd nominate him for Oscars like Smeogol from LoTR.

Just to sum it up, great movie and if Lucas can keep it up, I wouldn't mind seeing him do 7-8-9.

Oh.. and PLEASE re-render and touch up Ep1+2 before making the HD-DVD super-hyper edition. And obviously... KILL JAR JAR!!

PS Sorry if the ramblings are not necessarily chronological... am just... rambling :)

Splinemodel

05-18-2005, 01:57 PM

Cool.

I've been planning on seeing it sometime in the next two weeks. I didn't mind Ep1, but I don't like child actors, so I don't think I plan on watching it much in the future. Episode 2, I liked. I still preferred 4,5,6, but I did think 2 was pretty good. Hopefully 3 will be better than 2. 4,5,6 all had their own mega-chessy annoying moments, and I think it's fine if 3 has a few.

sunilraman

05-18-2005, 01:59 PM

SPOILER WARNING DON'T READ THIS ENTIRE THREAD IF YOU HAVENT SEEN THE MOVIE !!!!!!

just saw it. totally agree with everything above.
:D

BEST STARWARS EVER.

the vader thing ~ just thing frankenstein reference, filmmaker homage/ in-joke thing. face it. seeing anakin burning, nothing after that would be more powerful. directors cut on dvd should clean that up, otherwise do your own fan edits :D

obiwan on the chicken thing - yup, no.2 dodgy moment for me, but obiwan's acting throughout is stellar.

umm... that's about it for the annoyances. oh no.3 is grevious is not as badass as i expected from watching clone wars vol 1. i somehow expected more badass-ness from him.

umm other than these three points,

BEST STARWARS EVER. BEST FILM OF THIS CENTURY THUS FAR I WOULD SAY, FOR ME PERSONALLY.

it's Lucas' masterpiece and definitely i think 'our' generation (10-60+ year olds that will live through this century), star wars ep.3 will be considered a 21st century science fiction piece of film literature.

sunilraman

05-18-2005, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by ZO
.....
Just to sum it up, great movie and if Lucas can keep it up, I wouldn't mind seeing him do 7-8-9.
.....
Oh.. and PLEASE re-render and touch up Ep1+2 before making the HD-DVD super-hyper edition. And obviously... KILL JAR JAR!!
.....
PS Sorry if the ramblings are not necessarily chronological... am just... rambling :)

lucas can't keep it up. he's done his masterpiece. it's on to making 3d versions and television, he says...
......

rip the high-def dvd version, do your own edits, resave as h.264. sweet :D
that way cut out all the annoying bits you don't like for a super-tight version of all 6 films :lol:
.......

i'm rambling too. it's 3AM now where i am and i'll be up a bit... posting madly perhaps

ragingloogie

05-18-2005, 04:41 PM

sweet. do you think its worth going too? because i know ill go out and buy the movie as soon as it comes out... i turn 18 soon so ill be able to go to a later showing when less people arent there:) which will be cool.... :) welll take care

05-18-2005, 07:15 PM

Grievous was indeed monumentally more bad ass in the Clone Wars cartoon. It would've been nice to see that aspect more... but seeing it in CGI is impressive. Its so fast, you can't possibly have any idea about what the heck is going on...

ragingloogie

05-18-2005, 08:57 PM

you people keep making me more tempted to go see... hmm.. sounds like a plan... when i turn 18... im going to the movies:) b/c that way i can come home late because of the fact im going to a late show

MacCrazy

05-18-2005, 09:45 PM

I only really got into star wars a week ago but saw the first two (Episode I and II that is at the cinema). It was an amazing film - good conclusion to the series, powerful and dark. I just feel a bit empty now! Also good irony.

Chris Cuilla

05-19-2005, 08:34 AM

Excellent effects, set design, coreography and action.

Cheesy dialogue and cardboard acting.

Glad it is all complete now.

sunilraman

05-19-2005, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Excellent effects, set design, coreography and action.

Cheesy dialogue and cardboard acting.

Glad it is all complete now.

i'm glad its all over now, but you have to admit episode 3 is like a million times better than 1 and 2. and episode 4, 5, 6 aside for nostalgic purposes, we can safely file away as 20th century kitsch sci-fi :devil:

Chris Cuilla

05-19-2005, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by sunilraman
but you have to admit episode 3 is like a million times better than 1 and 2.

This is true...but the bar was set pretty low with those two.

I was thinking about this today and thinking they could have thrown out #1, half of #2...combined the remaining half of #2 into #3, tightened things up a bit and had a single 3 hour prequel that would have handled everything. Of course...that wouldn't have made nearly as much $$.

ragingloogie

05-19-2005, 10:11 AM

true, it wouldnt have made as much money...

im looking forward to the sword fight between obi wan and anikan... i think that'll be a cool fight....

aplnub

05-19-2005, 01:53 PM

*Spoilers*

The book made Obi Wan out to be the badest Jedi ever and IMHO, he is.

However, I can't remember Chewy in the book. Maybe they left that part out, who knows, or maybe I wasn't paying attention.

The book was great, I know the movie will be.

octane

05-19-2005, 02:08 PM

Chris Cuilla

Excellent effects, set design, coreography and action.

Cheesy dialogue and cardboard acting.

Glad it is all complete now.

Agreed

MacCrazy

I only really got into star wars a week ago but saw the first two (Episode I and II that is at the cinema). It was an amazing film - good conclusion to the series, powerful and dark. I just feel a bit empty now! Also good irony.

Empty is a good word for it, but I must say I was disturbed (maybe the irony did it?) and maybe a little disappointed, guess my expectations were a little too high. :D Can't say what was missing or was too much, just feel there was something out of place. Probably feel different after I see it again, perhaps some time other than 12AM.

PS. The light saber fights were out of control!

gregmightdothat

05-19-2005, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
This is true...but the bar was set pretty low with those two.

I was thinking about this today and thinking they could have thrown out #1, half of #2...combined the remaining half of #2 into #3, tightened things up a bit and had a single 3 hour prequel that would have handled everything. Of course...that wouldn't have made nearly as much $$.

What? Episode III is the fastest cut movie I've ever seen. If any more plot points had been crammed into that short a time the audience would've collectively thrown up out of sheer Star Wars barrage.

Also, ignoring the "I love you more" scene and the term "younglings", the acting and the dialogue were totally on point.

The only two real complaints I had were the cheesy wipes and the nauseatingly fast pace.

westonm

05-19-2005, 03:45 PM

The "cheesy wipes" are kind of a Star Wars hallmark at this point though, clearly seen in even episodes IV, V, and VI. Not to say they aren't "cheesy", but they're nothing new in the Star Wars universe.

MacCrazy

05-19-2005, 03:57 PM

I think it would have benefited from being a bit longer but a truly excellent conclusion. I just want more! It's so sad about Anakin and Padme (i don't care if the spelling is atrocious).

Chris Cuilla

05-19-2005, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by gregmightdothat
Also, ignoring the "I love you more" scene and the term "younglings", the acting and the dialogue were totally on point.

Pretty much any scene with both Portman and Christiansen has cheesy dialogue and stiff acting.

Here's a good one:

Anakin Skywalker: The Jedi turned against me. Don't you turn against me.
Senator Amidala: Anakin, you're breaking my heart!

I think my favorite cheesy bit was the Frankenstein-Marlon Brando/"Street Car Named Desire" bit. Those who have seen the movie will know exactly what I am referring to.

Another gem was the bit near the end with Yoda and Senator Organa and the decision about Leia. Again, for those that have seen the movie, you'll know exactly what I am talking about.

George Lucas is NOT a screenwriter...but he's too powerful for anyone to actually tell him that. He appears to be not that great of a director either. Story visionary? Sure! Tremendous imagination? Absolutely!

He did fine on episode 4, but you'll notice he got help (and improved pictures) on 5 and 6. Then things tanked for 1 and 2. The action and effects for 3 were fantastic, but the dialoge and acting seemed to regress to pre-episode-1 levels.

sunilraman

05-19-2005, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
...... The action and effects for 3 were fantastic, but the dialoge and acting seemed to regress to pre-episode-1 levels.....

huh? dialogue and acting i think most people will agree much much better than episode 1 and 2.

trying to compare episode 3 to 4, 5, 6, in terms of dialogue and acting, i say is like comparing apples to oranges ~ i mean, 4, 5, 6, action/adventure films, particularly those involving harrison ford, are sort of the kinda blaise antihero with witty, off-the-cuff remarks. episode 3 is much more 'serious' sci-fi kind of thing, with almost a frank-herbert-Dune-like scope to the whole saga, particularly with anakin being able to see into the future but not being able to change it...

i have to admit here though that i need to re-watch empire strikes back and see how that measures up with episode 3's dodgy bits..

sunilraman

05-19-2005, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
.....
I was thinking about this today and thinking they could have thrown out #1, half of #2...combined the remaining half of #2 into #3, tightened things up a bit and had a single 3 hour prequel that would have handled everything. Of course...that wouldn't have made nearly as much $$.

i had trouble sleeping last night, mostly because i've got a cold but also,

yes, just thinking the amount of garbage in episode #1 and #2 that could be thrown out. episode #3 aside from 'dodgy bits' that will be probably looked upon fondly as kistch references to films of the 20th century ?? (no excuse for some dodgy acting bits but like we agree, much better than episode 1 and 2) .... episode 3 was tightly edited and story pacing was very good.... IMHO

yup the wipes are a star wars hallmark, which would make it advantageous for combining episode 1 and 2 into a 2.5 hour single movie.

Fangorn

05-19-2005, 09:49 PM

I frelling LOVED it.

In fact, I CRIED! My kids thought I was crazy. :embarrass

And at the end, I wanted to go home and pull out Star Wars (A New Hope) and watch it all over again.

Way more action than drama, but I think Lucas stuck to his strengths more this time--avoided too many of the "love" scenes--but the sense of tragedy was still strong.

I AM going to see it again. :)

Res

05-19-2005, 11:50 PM

I just saw it on a digital screen and it looked great. The effects were wonderful, and most of the combat sequences were done very well. Unfortunately, there were some parts of the movie that were so stupid and unbelievable that they put a damper on an otherwise good film.

Continued below:

--------------------Spoiler Warning-----------------

--------------------Spoiler Warning-----------------

--------------------Spoiler Warning-----------------

Do not read this unless you have seen the film!!!

The whole death of Padme was ridiculously unbelievable. The medical technology in the star wars universe is quite high. With the miraculous med tech they have, her dying in child birth could only happen in a situation that denied her medical attention, so the solution to Anakin's bad dreams would be to keep Padme near a medical facility.

Of course, Lucas has her die while in a hospital room with the droid doctors saying that there is nothing physically wrong with her: she is as healthy as can be, but while surrounded by super high medical technology she somehow dies anyway... :err:

Now, there were some other very stupid things in this move, like having people fight a foot or two above huge pits of molten lava without being immediately burned to death (Lava is around 1000° Celsius, anyone hovering that close would die in seconds), but the worse thing about it was making the main motivation for Anakin turning to the dark-side so preposterous -- it made it hard to enjoy the rest of the movie.

sunilraman

05-20-2005, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by Fangorn
I frelling LOVED it.

In fact, I CRIED! My kids thought I was crazy. :embarrass

And at the end, I wanted to go home and pull out Star Wars (A New Hope) and watch it all over again.

Way more action than drama, but I think Lucas stuck to his strengths more this time--avoided too many of the "love" scenes--but the sense of tragedy was still strong.

I AM going to see it again. :)

i dare say it was almost f8cking shakespearean, no? well structured, all the elements of literature there.
wanting to save padme from death to avoid the repeat of what happened to his mother, excellent character motivation there for 'exploring the dark side'... he pulls the light saber on palpatine, but then, he did the right thing by reporting to the jedi council instead of ...!! but it all went to pot when mace windu tries to kill palpatine and palpatine pulls his 'oh pity me...' routine... :devil:

i would have cried but i was too shocked by the last scene of obiwan leaving anakin to burn, and anakin shouts "i hate you!!!"... and obiwan walks away, and we get a sense that obiwan has been way too humble all this time. he is one badass mofo of a jedi, but his main failing (and he spends the next 30 years+ of his life regretting this) is his loss of anakin to the dark side

oh and is it just me or did the jedi council deserve what they got? bunch of arrogant dicks... all except obiwan, yoda, hmm...

the council definitely overestimated their relationship and 'assumed respect' from the galactic senate and the republic.

sunilraman

05-20-2005, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by Res
....there were some parts of the movie that were so stupid and unbelievable that they put a damper on an otherwise good film.....

dude it's science fiction. ;)

Wrong Robot

05-20-2005, 02:50 AM

*mild spoilers*

I really enjoyed it. I really did. It made episodes 1 and 2 better(in theory, I still don't care to watch them again to find out) It made episode 4 a lot more desirable, and it was a well structured story with well paced action, good acting(almost everywhere, but with some lame bits)

I think what the film accomplished best was creating a strong sense of the whole point of view, 'what is good', 'what is evil' tension/confusion that anakin was struggling with.

Probably the most powerful scene for me was when Mace windu was defeated. I got a little lump in my throat and my jaw was on the floor. But then when the initial 'wow' factor settled down, I realized just how well that scene was constructed. Mace was the 'good guy' but he was clearly acting irrational, to the point where you almost wanted anakin to stop him from killing palpatine. It was a very well structured and multifaceted scene.

There was a surprising amount of comedic relief throughout the movie, primarily R2D2, but also Yoda and random droids. I think that's good, otherwise the movie would have been a real downer.

All in all, it was pure star wars awesomeness and it made me want to be a jedi again so that ain't not bad :)

sunilraman

05-20-2005, 02:57 AM

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
*mild spoilers*

......There was a surprising amount of comedic relief throughout the movie, primarily R2D2, but also Yoda and random droids. I think that's good, otherwise the movie would have been a real downer. ....

yeah the opening sequence was f8cking brilliant. ILM themselves have reached a level of Jedi-ness themselves such that they can actually run all this fantastic detail CGI in the background and focus on the characters and the story. it was lighthearted, and it wasn't an opening omigod there's this bigass battle we're gonna die, but it was cool, like driving fast in the city late at night... just enough of a rush but not too overwhelming

if that makes sense :???:

MacCrazy

05-20-2005, 05:42 AM

Originally posted by Res
I just saw it on a digital screen and it looked great. The effects were wonderful, and most of the combat sequences were done very well. Unfortunately, there were some parts of the movie that were so stupid and unbelievable that they put a damper on an otherwise good film.

You chose that point? What about her getting pregnant in the first place - no contraception in Star Wars era?

sunilraman

05-20-2005, 05:45 AM

Originally posted by MacCrazy
You chose that point? What about her getting pregnant in the first place - no contraception in Star Wars era?

yeah... that was one of those after-the-hype kind of moments the next day after the movie when i was like... wait a minute... plot hole...!! :D

MacCrazy

05-20-2005, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by sunilraman
yeah... that was one of those after-the-hype kind of moments the next day after the movie when i was like... wait a minute... plot hole...!! :D

I thought the actual no will to live was a fair point - I mean she's just lost a loved one - if anyone has had this happen they know the pain and anguish - combined with the stress of giving birth... it was a really sad moment though.

sunilraman

05-20-2005, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by MacCrazy
I thought the actual no will to live was a fair point - I mean she's just lost a loved one - if anyone has had this happen they know the pain and anguish - combined with the stress of giving birth... it was a really sad moment though.

i was cool with the lost the will to live bit, that was moving, given all the technology she's surrounded by....

and the cuts between padme giving birth and dying on the table
contrasting with
anakin on the table dying as well but being patched together by droids at the "evil" medical facility

that was alright... anakin's frankenstein rebirth was a bit weird for me, but i accept the film-in-joke/reference/homage for that scene...

side note:
lucas has said that he always wanted to paint the Old Republic as a more elegant, diverse era and i think star wars ep 3 captures that best, as the transition to the Empire occurs it makes sense in ep 4, 5, 6 the utilitarian 'blockiness' of things

side note2:
padme funeral scene was bweeeautiful ~ they learnt a few things from lord of the rings there ;)

brandnewfatboy

05-20-2005, 08:57 AM

Opening day in Leicester Square yesterday. Not as many fanboys in costume as I expected - one Obi Wan, and a very convincing Darth Maul (spelling?) who was being photographed constantly. And about 5 lads in the most rubbish costumes I've seen.

Excellent film. Return to form by Lucas. Completely gripped all the way through (even when some of the dialogue went a bit lumpy), and came out a bit glazed as my brain had too much input. Then had a load of beer and discussed lightsabres.

Spoilers etc coming up, probably with bad spelling of names

Bits I loved:

Lightsabres. loads of them. splendid.

Yoda. top-notch CGI. difficult to compare with Gollum - who I suppose is something of a benchmark - but must be up there. ZO called it spot-on: Yoda kicks ass. Even when he's been bitchslapped by Palpatine, has to crawl through the ducting [all scifi ships have to have extensive ducting], jumps into the shuttle thing, and his ears have a really sad droop when he says something like 'exile it is'

Lightsabres chopping up droids. in the lift particularly amusing. Grievous with 4 lighsabres very alarming.

Palpatine. some of his dialogue was a bit shady in places, but there was a very strong feeling that he was pulling all the strings

Fall of the Jedi. Worked really well. In Ep2, was completely unconvinced the arena set piece where lots of Jedi got beaten up - Jedi are meant to be much harder than that. Treachery much better
Chewy - I reckon the wookie planet bit will be much longer on DVD.

Backdrops throughout the film. stunning.

Yoda tottering into room with bad guys and doing for 2 enormous guards with a casual wave. without even looking.

First Darth breath. Complete silence in the cinema.

Shady bits

"I love you. no I love you more. no i love you. shut up b***h i love you the most. F**k you darkside boy, I win the who loves who pissing contest" would have been better than the slightly stilted version we got.

In fact, the whole Padme-Anakin thing was rather blah, but a necessary plot device I suppose.

Death of Padme. As Res said - weak, weak, weak. She looked the healthiest person on set. Evident plot device. oh well. When the first baby was unveiled, I had a vision of Padme saying "I name you Jar-Jar" and sparking a cinema riot.

Chicken was a bit odd, but it made an excellent noise.

Midichlorians. no idea how to spell them. no idea what they were on about

Er. no more shady i can think of. far outweighed by good stuff.
Plan to go and see it again next week

Query: in Ep2, never really worked out who commissioned all the clones. And who got clones and who got droids. Not really the wiser after Ep3. clones seem to go from bad guys to good guys to bad guys again. Are droids always with bad guys? and who are the separatist fellas? confused.

Cheers
BNFB

aplnub

05-20-2005, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by brandnewfatboy
Yoda tottering into room with bad guys and doing for 2 enormous guards with a casual wave. without even looking.

Absolutely my favorite part of the movie. When Yoda took care of the emporers gaurds, that got the biggest reaction from the crowd.

I thought Padme looked awful. She looked better dead than alive for some reason. Her hair was horrible, horrible I tell ya!!

So, what are the chances we will see a 7, 8 and 9 trilogy?

MacCrazy

05-20-2005, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by aplnub
Absolutely my favorite part of the movie. When Yoda took care of the emporers gaurds, that got the biggest reaction from the crowd.

I thought Padme looked awful. She looked better dead than alive for some reason. Her hair was horrible, horrible I tell ya!!

So, what are the chances we will see a 7, 8 and 9 trilogy?

with what - the fight is over - balance has been restored.

aplnub

05-20-2005, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by MacCrazy
with what - the fight is over - balance has been restored.

Lucas has said Star Wars is made up of 9 complete stories.

In ROTJ, the "main fighting" has ended but the journey has just begun. There is just one trained Jedi left (Luke Skywalker), the rest have yet to be discovered or trained. Rebuilding the republic, and of course, there is another Sith that has been lurking in the outer rim.

"Heir to the Empire" by Tim Z., starts 5 years after ROTJ and is a part of a 3 book trilogy. Although Lucas would never do Zaughn's books as movies, it would be nice if he did.

:D

MacCrazy

05-20-2005, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by aplnub
Lucas has said Star Wars is made up of 9 complete stories.

In ROTJ, the "main fighting" has ended but the journey has just begun. There is just one trained Jedi left (Luke Skywalker), the rest have yet to be discovered or trained. Rebuilding the republic, and of course, there is another Sith that has been lurking in the outer rim.

"Heir to the Empire" by Tim Z., starts 5 years after ROTJ and is a part of a 3 book trilogy. Although Lucas would never do Zaughn's books as movies, it would be nice if he did.

:D

i think those stories are the comic series he's working on.

aplnub

05-20-2005, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by MacCrazy
i think those stories are the comic series he's working on.

I hope not.

Mark Hamil has said that GL asked him if he would make a cameo appearance in an EP 7. It is also rumored that Chewbacca guy, had to agree to appear in EP 7 (if there is to be one), if he wanted in EP 3.

I am crossing my fingers. ;)

MacCrazy

05-20-2005, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by aplnub
I hope not.

Mark Hamil has said that GL asked him if he would make a cameo appearance in an EP 7. It is also rumored that Chewbacca guy, had to agree to appear in EP 7 (if there is to be one), if he wanted in EP 3.

I am crossing my fingers. ;)

I would love to see more but I'm not going to get my hopes up. Also, there are no characters from the series left in episode VII. Luke, Leia and Solo are all too old now.

sunilraman

05-20-2005, 10:05 AM

Originally posted by brandnewfatboy
.......

(1)
Yoda tottering into room with bad guys and doing for 2 enormous guards with a casual wave. without even looking.

......
(2)
Midichlorians. no idea how to spell them. no idea what they were on about

........
(3)
Query: in Ep2, never really worked out who commissioned all the clones. And who got clones and who got droids. Not really the wiser after Ep3. clones seem to go from bad guys to good guys to bad guys again. Are droids always with bad guys? and who are the separatist fellas? confused.

Cheers
BNFB

1. that was awesome. those are the early badass mofo red emperor guards that looked so badass in episode 4, 5 and 6. cinema erupted in laughter when yoda just waved them against the wall. note that light side force push is only use when someone is attacked or when really necessary. dark side force like force death grip (anakin on padme last scene) well... nevermind i'm rambling...

2. re: midichlorians: just ask anyone that's done A level biology or a biology degree to explain what "mitochondria" is (note spelling similarity of midichlorians and mitochondria) f8ck it it's 2005. just wikipedia it, read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrion
edit: skip to the endosymbiotic theory bit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endosymbiotic_theory
then rewatch episode 1 where qui-gonn explains midichlorians to anakin IIRC
it will make sense then ;)

3. basically, palpatine is responsible for all the shitstirring. somehow, the (old) republic got the clones (see episode 2, some mysterious dude went off and comissioned the cloners to make clone army ~ probably under palpatine's plotting) ... the separatists got the droid army.

3(b) following from no.3 above, note then how that the Emprie has the best of all technologies : mix of clone army tech and droid army tech eg. death star from geonosians, also the observation deck in grevious' flagship is very very reminiscent of the emperors' fittings in return of the jedi

4. essentially palpatine divided up the galaxy, got them to fight each other, got the jedi to kill all the badass non-jedi people, then got the separatists to kill some jedi, got the clones to kill other jedi, got anakin to kill the most powerful jedi, got anakin to kill the separatist leaders all assembled in one room, got anakin to kill Dooku, also palpatine killed 4 jedi masters in like 5 seconds himself. palpatine moves from senator to chancellor to executive-power chancellor to eventually Emperor, turns anakin to dark side, and collects all the best technology from droid and clone army for the new army of the Empire, plus the bonus for the Empire is that all the badass powerful jedi and non-jedi are wiped out because he got them to whack each other...

kapish? :D

aplnub

05-20-2005, 11:00 AM

Originally posted by MacCrazy
I would love to see more but I'm not going to get my hopes up. Also, there are no characters from the series left in episode VII. Luke, Leia and Solo are all too old now.

Sure, that is why Luke Skywalker is only needed for cameo to "pass the torch". Probably to Solo and Leia's jedi twins.

I did like the qui gon (spelling) reference. That ties up what happend to Yoda and Obi Wan just dissapearing instead of falling flat at death and how Anakin shows up at the end of ROTJ. They even replaced the old man Anakin with the young HC Anakin in the DVD ROTJ.

sunilraman

05-20-2005, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by aplnub
.... They even replaced the old man Anakin with the young HC Anakin in the DVD ROTJ....

:wow: that's sacrilege !!!!!! that's almost as bad as han shooting second.

aplnub

05-20-2005, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by sunilraman
:wow: that's sacrilege !!!!!! that's almost as bad as han shooting second.

NO KIDDING!!! Check out the end of ROTJ and check it out for yourself! I about crapped my pants. I am glad I have the VHS Tapes!! ;)

Nebagakid

05-20-2005, 05:06 PM

For me, My qualm was that the love story was a little rough, and I half-liked how everything was explained in the universe. I was a little uncertain about the movie, but once the Jedi started to be killed off, it took a turn for the better. It was a much better movie after the child slaughtering. The end, when they transitioned to Episode 4, was very good, although I think the all of a sudden "Hey, everyone on the Star Destroyers looks like they are in 70's clothes and the ships have all the old buttons."

I loved seeing all the old stuff in a new digital manor, the 70's ships and clothes, though. It was weird to see all the images from 4,5,6 and seeing those connections gave me an unsettling feeling. I think that was Lucas' goal, to give people an uneasy feeling and he succeded. It was sad to see Padmé die, although we knew from the beginning it was going to happen. It was sad to see Anakin go over to the dark side. And it was incredibly weird and made everyone want to watch 4,5,6 when the end came. It was the connection between Anankin and Luke. Overall, I liked the movie.

I don't know how the movie should be viewed in the future, in what order. I mean, we have all experienced the movies in 4,5,6 and then 1,2,3. But I would be interested in seeing how the trilogy would be viewed in the order of 1,2,3,4,5,6.

Also, why can't people spell fucking correctly?

MacCrazy

05-20-2005, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Nebagakid
Also, why can't people spell fucking correctly?

I can spell that! The character names are tricky because no-one's seen them spelt. I think most of mine were right but be tolerant!

Nebagakid

05-20-2005, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by MacCrazy
I can spell that! The character names are tricky because no-one's seen them spelt. I think most of mine were right but be tolerant!

No I didn't mean poor spelling, the character names are hard to spell. I was trying to point out people writing "f8cking" instead. It is not any mystery was the word is, why don't people just write it with the proper letters and not try to sugar coat it? :smokey: :smokey: :smokey:

Also, I guess if you are trying to make a whole fleet of star ships in no time flat, you have to go with 1970's buttons instead of 2000's LCD displays... :smokey: :smokey:

Fireball1244

05-20-2005, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by aplnub
[B]Lucas has said Star Wars is made up of 9 complete stories.

ONCE. Maybe twice. In 1980. Ever since then, it's been six movies. It's the story of Darth Vader. With Vader dead, the story is pointless to continue.

"Heir to the Empire" by Tim Z., starts 5 years after ROTJ and is a part of a 3 book trilogy. Although Lucas would never do Zaughn's books as movies, it would be nice if he did.

Zahn's books don't stand up after the prequels. A lot of his "facts" are wrong, and conflict with estabished film continuity.

sunilraman

05-20-2005, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by aplnub
NO KIDDING!!! Check out the end of ROTJ and check it out for yourself! I about crapped my pants. I am glad I have the VHS Tapes!! ;)

fucking hell (there nebagakid you happy ??!!?) that is so wrong. it doesn't make sense. the 'sprits' at the end of the ROTJ are yoda, OLD obiwan and obviously it follows OLD Anakin, not HC Anakin ???? what an utterly pointless waste of special effects money ~ what a bloody cheap Lucas trick to link the old movies with the new ones by cutting and pasting young Anakin in there....

*sigh*
if my dad's old Laserdisc player still worked.... and if i had the star wars ep. 4,5,6, laserdiscs, untouched by Lucas' digital molestations...

sunilraman

05-20-2005, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by Nebagakid
.......

Also, I guess if you are trying to make a whole fleet of star ships in no time flat, you have to go with 1970's buttons instead of 2000's LCD displays... :smokey: :smokey:

:lol: i know what your saying... but i like the transition from a more diverse, "democratic", elegant, Old Republic, to a brutal, ruthless, utilitarian Empire...

remember that the 70s were a time of free love and freedom and anti-vietnam and all that ... but also a time when modernist, futurist, blocky buildings were all the rage in architecture... umm we'll that's all the art history i remember, so..... :\

Nebagakid

05-20-2005, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by sunilraman
fucking hell (there nebagakid you happy ??!!?) that is so wrong. it doesn't make sense. the 'sprits' at the end of the ROTJ are yoda, OLD obiwan and obviously it follows OLD Anakin, not HC Anakin ???? what an utterly pointless waste of special effects money ~ what a bloody cheap Lucas trick to link the old movies with the new ones by cutting and pasting young Anakin in there....

Actually, for the first time in seven years, I am actually happy. I think, according to the whole line at the end of III, it makes no sense for any of them to be there and for Luke to be able to see them. Luke should have to do some training to see them, I thought.

Either way, it just shows how Lucas can do whatever he wants now. IF he wanted, he could digitally isolate every object in that movie, and redo the whole thing with the same actors but different backgrounds.... that would be incredible.:smokey: :smokey: :smokey: :smokey: :smokey: :smokey:

aplnub

05-20-2005, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by Fireball1244

Zahn's books don't stand up after the prequels. A lot of his "facts" are wrong, and conflict with estabished film continuity.

You could argue that Lucas conflicted with continuity in EP 1 a lot.

Zahn's books are good reads for sure, and would make great movies with some polishing. I never liked how he used 'kilometers as a unit of distance in the books.

9 stories, you gotta believe man!! it is not pointless!! Plus, he won't do it because he is getting to old. ;)

johnq

05-20-2005, 09:38 PM

The image a Jedi would project would be entirely arbitrary. It would be up to a Jedi himself to choose what appearance they give off in that spirit form.

It makes sense to see old Yoda and Obi Wan, since they were always "good".

I could see and argue that Anakin might want to show himself as he looked pre-Vader. The only bad part to me is it wrecks that arc of the character, that even post-bcoming Vader, the true Anakin was a good person, who did bring balance to the force and did destroy the emperor and the Empire.

Him being an old man trapped in a prison of his own making but giving hope to his son made the old man image more compelling.

But I can 'spin' the argument that Anakin wanted to show himself as he was pre-Dark Side.

It's not the same caliber of tragedy as Han shooting second.

johnq

05-20-2005, 09:50 PM

My notes:

Got a real grin and slight tear from Chewie helping to protect Yoda. Doesn't get better than that. Cuter than a puppy licking a kitten.

Okay. Anakin really is the best pilot in the galaxy. :)

Buddhism galore! Okay, they fuck it up a bit, but not bad. I'll be happy if it helps people look into Buddhism in earnest.

Frankenstein part. Well, we knew it was coming. His stiffness is acceptable considering he's walking for the first time. Wasn't quite the Orson Wells room destroying rampage I was hoping for though.

Nowhere near enough of post-mask Vader. Oh well. I was hoping for a 5 minute montage of the spread of the empire.

I like the Tie fighter cockpit for Anakin's fighter.

Obi-Wan truly is Gandalf-like, in a good way.

Luke's saber: "Your father wanted you to have this" MY ASS. :D More like "I stole this from your dad after I cut his arm and legs off and left him to burn to death." JESUS. :D

aplnub

05-20-2005, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by johnq
My notes:
Luke's saber: "Your father wanted you to have this" MY ASS. :D More like "I stole this from your dad after I cut his arm and legs off and left him to burn to death." JESUS. :D

hahahahahahahahahaha yeah, that was a bit of a stretch or just plain missed during many of GL's digital edits.

rageous

05-20-2005, 10:17 PM

I haven't seen ep3 yet, but one thing I'm finding lame is this:

That stupid ass Midichlorian thing from ep1.

If Anakin is getting all hacked to bits, and the amount of scabies or whatever in your blood determines your force power, how does he get more badass as he loses actual body mass?

/me is perplexed.

I would fully support Lucas completely canning ep 1 & 2 and reshooting them to be proper movies.

johnq

05-20-2005, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by rageous
I haven't seen ep3 yet, but one thing I'm finding lame is this:

That stupid ass Midichlorian thing from ep1.

If Anakin is getting all hacked to bits, and the amount of scabies or whatever in your blood determines your force power, how does he get more badass as he loses actual body mass?

/me is perplexed.

I would fully support Lucas completely canning ep 1 & 2 and reshooting them to be proper movies.

This has long been argued on the fan sites but basically body mass doesn't matter.

Otherwise a Jedi could just sit around eating Twinkies all day and get more powerful the closer they get to Jabba size.

Midi-chlorian count is counted on a per-cell basis. Midi-chlorian "concentration" is key, not "total". You might have 27,000 Midi-chlorians per cell if you are Vader and 17,000 if you are Yoda.

But size matters not. ;)

And by the way, Midi-chlorians is not a cop-out. It only adds realism to the otherwise mystical/magical-only Force. In real life, "mitochondria" and "chloroplast" fulfill the same role essentially. Throw in some Buddhism, and you are as close to the Force as you can get in this galaxy.

(Read "The Quantum and the Lotus" and "Being Dharma"...highly recommended.)

rageous

05-20-2005, 10:41 PM

Well size does matter in that the bigger you are the more blood actually exists in your body. In addition, when your legs get hacked off you lose a signifacant amount of cell producing bone marrow.

But I reeeeeeeeally don't want to get into a technicality laden nerdwar so I'll accept your explanation with a smile.

Nebagakid

05-20-2005, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by rageous
I would fully support Lucas completely canning ep 1 & 2 and reshooting them to be proper movies.

Dude, that would be soooo cool.:smokey: :smokey: :smokey: :smokey: :smokey: :smokey:

johnq

05-20-2005, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by rageous
Well size does matter in that the bigger you are the more blood actually exists in your body. In addition, when your legs get hacked off you lose a signifacant amount of cell producing bone marrow.

But I reeeeeeeeally don't want to get into a technicality laden nerdwar so I'll accept your explanation with a smile.

Sure. But note that concentration and volume are not the same thing.

"Midichlorian count" isn't cumulative. It's importance is per-cell only.

It's like each cell has an energy potential or strength. What is it's limit per cell.

Each cell has a strength or Force potential (whatever you want to call it) of "x".

You don't then add up the number of cells. That is irrelevant.

No nerdwar, just shootin' the shit with fellow Star Wars geeks on an Apple rumor Forum. AND I have a girlfriend. :D

rageous

05-20-2005, 11:04 PM

I would love to belive Lucas put that much thought into it, but I'm inclined to believe the real secret is that your force potential is only limited by the power of the CGI rendering machines.

johnq

05-20-2005, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by rageous
I would love to belive Lucas put that much thought into it, but I'm inclined to believe the real secret is that your force potential is only limited by the power of the CGI rendering machines.

There's no doubt that Lucas didn't bother with any of the more esoteric details in the original trilogy, they were too busy having fun and blowing things up.

But in keeping with Joseph Campbell's influences (he was a deep admirer of Buddhism in particular) it's not likely that he "just made this up one afternoon" during writing (if I can call it that) Phantom Menace. I'm sure he had a sketch of how he wanted a contemplative kind of Buddhism-lite for the Jedi, mixed with a tangible acknowledgment of the physical properties that do indeed make up life.

The world has gotten smarter about DNA/quantum physics etc. since the original trilogy, and adding this reference is only a nod to how the Force isn't merely abstract hocus pocus, but it has physical manifestations/implications, in the same way that Buddhism (for example) doesn't deny the physical (it's not mere nihilism) so much as it teaches you to reach beyond preconceptions to get closer to the true nature of things as they are, through first hand experience and investigation.

Lucas is eternally indebted to Tolkein, Campbell, Kurosawa (Peace Be Upon Them). Lucas did his homework on the myth stuff, I can't believe he just plopped the midi-chlorian thing in nilly-willy. It does strike a blow against this being a pure fantasy and makes it more science fiction-ish. But really there should be a balance between the physical and metaphysical. Otherwise it's just pure Fantasy with a capital EFF and we wouldn't need the spaceships. ;)

ragingloogie

05-21-2005, 01:15 AM

fenominal movie... few slow parts, but it picked back up... the fight between anikan and obi-wan was fenominal... one of the best light saber fights i've seen... it has my liking:)...

johnq

05-21-2005, 01:33 AM

Qui-gon/Obi-Wan vs. Darth Maul still is my favorite. Just really tightly done and powerful.

sunilraman

05-21-2005, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by johnq
There's no doubt that Lucas didn't bother with any of the more esoteric details in the original trilogy, they were too busy having fun and blowing things up.

But in keeping with Joseph Campbell's influences (he was a deep admirer of Buddhism in particular) it's not likely that he "just made this up one afternoon" during writing (if I can call it that) Phantom Menace. I'm sure he had a sketch of how he wanted a contemplative kind of Buddhism-lite for the Jedi, mixed with a tangible acknowledgment of the physical properties that do indeed make up life.

The world has gotten smarter about DNA/quantum physics etc. since the original trilogy, and adding this reference is only a nod to how the Force isn't merely abstract hocus pocus, but it has physical manifestations/implications, in the same way that Buddhism (for example) doesn't deny the physical (it's not mere nihilism) so much as it teaches you to reach beyond preconceptions to get closer to the true nature of things as they are, through first hand experience and investigation.

Lucas is eternally indebted to Tolkein, Campbell, Kurosawa (Peace Be Upon Them). Lucas did his homework on the myth stuff, I can't believe he just plopped the midi-chlorian thing in nilly-willy. It does strike a blow against this being a pure fantasy and makes it more science fiction-ish. But really there should be a balance between the physical and metaphysical. Otherwise it's just pure Fantasy with a capital EFF and we wouldn't need the spaceships. ;)

eh... my exposure to hinduism/buddhism must be off on a different (wrong?) tangent... because i've only been exposed to the more metaphysical aspects of those, not much physical tie in.

i thought also it's weird that there are this midicholrians that actually "control" us in some way, risking idolising the midicholrians as god or something??

:\ i have a cold now *sniffle* so brain not in gear, ignore the above if you like

MacCrazy

05-21-2005, 09:12 AM

aplnub

05-21-2005, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by MacCrazy
sorry I'm confused - where do you see old hologram Anakin?

At the end of ROTJ in pre EP 1, 2 and 3 days, Luke sees yoda, Obi-Wan, and then the old anakin shows up.

Now, Hayden C. shows up and the old Anakin is no more.

MacCrazy

05-21-2005, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by aplnub
At the end of ROTJ in pre EP 1, 2 and 3 days, Luke sees yoda, Obi-Wan, and then the old anakin shows up.

Now, Hayden C. shows up and the old Anakin is no more.

I don't remember that.

Wrong Robot

05-21-2005, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by MacCrazy
I don't remember that.

Well, then it obviously didn't really happen. ;)

MacCrazy

05-21-2005, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Well, then it obviously didn't really happen. ;)

it didn't in my copy! when did this actually happen - after Vader dies?

johnq

05-21-2005, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by MacCrazy
it didn't in my copy! when did this actually happen - after Vader dies?

At the Ewok ceremony, after Luke has burned Vader alone and returns to the party, he sees Ben, Yoda and old Anakin's spirits.

Perhaps the fullscreen version doesn't show all of the picture? </guessing>

ragingloogie

05-21-2005, 02:33 PM

would this be in return of the jedi? after vadar dies, he returns to the good side?

Wrong Robot

05-21-2005, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by ragingloogie
would this be in return of the jedi? after vadar dies, he returns to the good side?

Sorta. More like, the 'good in him' was awakened when he sees luke about to kill him, and he recognizes that luke is on the verge of turning to the dark side, and he sees luke refuse. Then he kills palpatine to redeem himself. More or less, it can be made more convoluted or less convoluted if you want. heh.

johnq

05-21-2005, 03:13 PM

Right, in Jedi, Anakin kills the Emperor and brings balance to the force. Luke was a helpful distraction, to tempt the Emperor to think Luke would make a good replacement for Vader as the Emperor's new apprentice. (Remember, this was Vader offering that in Empire). This let Vader get Luke as close to the Emperor as possible. Vader knew Luke was good and powerful and would not kill his own father. This let Vader kill the Emperor himself when he was weakened/distracted.

The prophecy was right, it just took a while to happen.

It was my theory for years that Vader was actually good throughout the old trilogy. He killed plenty of fellow Imperials, and only a few odd rebels in the heat of battle (had to maintain a credible image for the Emperor).

john.outwater

05-21-2005, 04:39 PM

Ferali

05-21-2005, 06:29 PM

well if 1 and 2 were so crappy what do you all suggest should be changed in them? I think they are pretty good and they all lead up to episode 3 nicely. they are essentially the beginning of the whole thing and have to get some explaining out of the way so you can get the whole idea.

MacCrazy

05-21-2005, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by johnq
At the Ewok ceremony, after Luke has burned Vader alone and returns to the party, he sees Ben, Yoda and old Anakin's spirits.

Perhaps the fullscreen version doesn't show all of the picture? </guessing>

OK - how was one supposed to know that was Vader - we never see his face! I think it's good to change it to HC

rageous

05-21-2005, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by MacCrazy
OK - how was one supposed to know that was Vader - we never see his face! I think it's good to change it to HC

You see his face when Luke takes his helmet off after killing the Emperor.

MacCrazy

05-21-2005, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by rageous
You see his face when Luke takes his helmet off after killing the Emperor.

I think it's subtle so the SW geeks can be proud because it's pretty messed up!

aplnub

05-21-2005, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by rageous
You see his face when Luke takes his helmet off after killing the Emperor.

And not only do you see his face, George Lucas REMOVED HIS EYEBROWS on the DVD's! Where does it end. ;) He had Vader's eyebrows removed because he was burned badly in EP3.

sunilraman

05-21-2005, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by aplnub
And not only do you see his face, George Lucas REMOVED HIS EYEBROWS on the DVD's! Where does it end. ;) He had Vader's eyebrows removed because he was burned badly in EP3.

oh man... over the next 10 years the nerds are all going to have a field day keeping track of what details were changed where...

.......

sunilraman

05-21-2005, 10:14 PM

Originally posted by johnq
Right, in Jedi, Anakin kills the Emperor and brings balance to the force. Luke was a helpful distraction, to tempt the Emperor to think Luke would make a good replacement for Vader as the Emperor's new apprentice. (Remember, this was Vader offering that in Empire). This let Vader get Luke as close to the Emperor as possible. Vader knew Luke was good and powerful and would not kill his own father. This let Vader kill the Emperor himself when he was weakened/distracted.

The prophecy was right, it just took a while to happen.

It was my theory for years that Vader was actually good throughout the old trilogy. He killed plenty of fellow Imperials, and only a few odd rebels in the heat of battle (had to maintain a credible image for the Emperor).

i agree with you that now i realise how the prophecy was fulfilled. as the old republic crumbled, the dark side grew very very strong with palpatine... his 20+ year manipulations (not counting his apprenticeship to the dark side and killing of his master) made the force imbalanced.

edit: only Yoda and ObiWan really sensed this, so well and good that they were the only Jedi that 'survived' in the time of the Empire. the rest of the Jedi were clueless and deserved what they got :devil:

edit: well it was a long time of dark side imbalance, with him dismantling the old republic over 20+years, the 20+ year rule of the Empire, etc..

yup, it took a while, anakin had to go over to the dark side, then eventually kill the emperor in return of the jedi, and balance is restored to the force. prophecy fulfilled, just that obiwan and yoda gave up on the prophecy a little early (just like morpheus in the matrix, but keanu.. er i mean Neo eventually delivered the goods)

i think Vader did not do this in a very conscious way, eg. blowing up a whole planet... the thing is though that he had to journey through the darkness to see the light and restore balance (this parallels with non-dualism concepts of spirituality in our galaxy... or i mean solar system ;) )

Vader had to journey through the very depths of the dark side to understand it and return the balance

pre-Vader, anakin was confused about what was right and wrong, and only through Vader did he gain confidence and clarity, albeit in one brief second

admittedly in the time of the Empire there might have been flickers of regret/ guilt about being so evil and stuff in Vader.

sunilraman

05-21-2005, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by aplnub
And not only do you see his face, George Lucas REMOVED HIS EYEBROWS on the DVD's! Where does it end. ;) He had Vader's eyebrows removed because he was burned badly in EP3.

umm.. hello Lucas? if there is so much technology to restore someone badly burnt by LAVA, with their ARM AND LEGS CHOPPED OFF, with one cybernetic arm left,

shurely cosmetic surgery techniques in the star wars universe can handle eyebrows?? we know that Vader does ocassionally take his helmet off in his special chamber (ep 4, 5 or 6...) :lol: perhaps one time he decided, hey, i want some eyebrows

sunilraman

05-22-2005, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by johnq
.....And by the way, Midi-chlorians is not a cop-out. It only adds realism to the otherwise mystical/magical-only Force. In real life, "mitochondria" and "chloroplast" fulfill the same role essentially. .....

omigod and to think i actually have a honours degree in molecular biology :(

i just got it... Midi-chlorian is a combination of both the words "mitochondria" and "chloroplast". mitochondria being oxygen-consuming endosymbionts (in this galaxy) and chloroplasts being oxygen-releasing endosymbionts (also in this galaxy... well on earth anyway)...

hence a midichlorian as a unit of the force can handle both the
"dark side"
(energy consuming mitochondrions as we understand it now)
"light side"
(energy-producing chloroplasts which harvest energy from the sun)

or vice versa, depending on your interpretation

i have a bit more respect now for the whole midichlorian concept now that i more fully grasp (thanks to you johnq..! :smokey: ) the duality of the midichlorian and it's modern-day-biology references

johnq

05-22-2005, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by john.outwater
I'm going to have to diagree with that. Blowing up an entire planet (Alderan) is a bit more than maintaining a credible image.

Vader didn't blow up Alderaan. That was Tarkin's idea. Hence Vader's rather shocked "What do you mean?" Look how fast his head whips around :lol: Vader wanted to keep dragging his feet using the ineffectual mind probe on Leia. Vader was the one that let them escape. He suggested putting the tracking device on the Falcon, to Tarkin's displeasure. Vader even left the Death Star at the last minute. He wanted it destroyed.

Note Vader's rather consoling (albeit also restraining) grip on Leia's shoulder.

Plus it was Vader that was delaying Tarkin from finding the rebel base by demanding he be allowed to continue trying to extract info from Leia, which was slow and buying the Rebellion some time. Tarkin was too impatient for that. (page 87-88 of the novel).

I also think Vader's meditation chamber was built so that he could hide his feelings from the Emperor.

Darth Vader pre-burning/armor was evil. Post armor, I feel he was on a slow steady mission to eventually kill the Emperor. Not that the Emperor would be surprised, since that's the Sith way. But the Emperor was arrogant enough to think that Vader was old and weak and Luke was the only one that could do it. When Luke proved stubborn and not strong enough, he had no use for either of them.

johnq

05-22-2005, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by sunilraman
i have a bit more respect now for the whole midichlorian concept now that i more fully grasp (thanks to you johnq..! :smokey: ) the duality of the midichlorian and it's modern-day-biology references

You've taken your first steps into a larger universe...:D

sunilraman

05-22-2005, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by johnq
You've taken your first steps into a larger universe...:D

*shakes fist* damn you johnQ ! just when i thought i was all enlightened, the fact that this point slipped by me...

i stand humbled, fellow seeker of Truth :D

it's a bloody never-ending story of learning and discovery, i tell ya... :devil: :rolleyes:

ragingloogie

05-22-2005, 08:32 AM

gotta love the biology references:) back in the day when i had to take that class... it was soo easy i just slept through everything and pulled out an A... take car.e may the force be w/ you...

speaking of universes, does anyone believe that theres an end to the universe?

i do...

rageous

05-22-2005, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by ragingloogie
speaking of universes, does anyone believe that theres an end to the universe?

i do...

THE universe? Or this particular one?

;)

johnq

05-22-2005, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by rageous
THE universe? Or this particular one?

;)

Sequential or parallel or both? :D

rok

05-22-2005, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
George Lucas is NOT a screenwriter...but he's too powerful for anyone to actually tell him that. He appears to be not that great of a director either. Story visionary? Sure! Tremendous imagination? Absolutely!

read "the second coming of steve jobs." he devotes a chunk of a chapter on geroge lucas, since that's who steve bought pixar from, and in it, he makes mention of how the original star wars trilogy, while passed over for many oscars, actually did win them for editing (i.e. leaving stuff on the cutting room floor, george!). and who was the head of the editing team? his wife, whom he divorced shortly after the original trilogy, as they both cited the stress of the making of that original trilogy for splitting them up. so there's your answer... the only person with enough sway to tell george to keep his cgi in his pants was his wife. once she was gone, well...

johnq

05-22-2005, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by rok
so there's your answer... the only person with enough sway to tell george to keep his cgi in his pants was his wife. once she was gone, well...

Not that CGI existed then, aside from the primitive vector Death Star trench animation. The limits actually helped keep the story human and set the focus more tightly than the CGI menageries and too-busy compositions.

And editing isn't merely leaving things out. Pacing is crucial. Something that the prequels tends to lose once too many plotlines spring up and overlap.

But yeah it's obvious that his wife was influential. Unfortunately so was the dreadful (except her ass) Natalie Portman. There's pretty much only one way she got that gig...

sunilraman

05-22-2005, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by johnq
.... aside from the primitive vector Death Star trench animation....

that wireframe thing was cool... was it done in Logo or something? :p :lol:

johnq

05-22-2005, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by sunilraman
that wireframe thing was cool... was it done in Logo or something? :p :lol:

I love that it had the laser dish at the equator. :err:

Good intel...:no:

Res

05-22-2005, 10:36 PM

sunilraman

05-22-2005, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by Res
I think that the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin brings about the death of most the Jedi. There were a lot of practitioners of the light-side of the force, (the jedi knights), and only a few practitioners of the dark-side (the seth). The the death of the jedi "balanced" the force. Of course, as we have all known since episode one that balancing the force was not going to be a good thing, and Yoda says as much when he state that they might have misinterpreted the prophecy. ...... :D

yeah that's the thing that makes me not like all the other jedi, except for Shakti because she's very cutely-drawn in CloneWars animated series... and of course i think yoda and obiwan are cool. mace windu is a bit too up himself for my liking.

but yeah that's the thing in that you could look at it that "okay, there is some balance coming to the force"... now the jedi should be thinking.. okay we have like hundreds of light-side practitioners... 1 dark lord and 1 dark apprentice... hmm... balancing is coming... hmmm...... HELLO? ANYONE HOME? too much light side...!! :lol: which explains the jedi council (i don't really like the council as well) being scared about anakin, because they know that the Jedi's reign of light-side supremacy is coming to an end....

just to recap... Obiwan, Shakti, and Yoda are the jedi's jedi... the rest, well.... i'm just not that impressed by them.

hmm.. my favourite Sith characters... well, Vader, yes, palpatine was really well-acted but the character himself is very scary :wow:

hardhead

05-23-2005, 02:00 AM

I'll say this for G. Lucas, he's moviedom's greatist marketeer EVAR...

Had he resisted the temptation to "kiddie-ize" Return Of The Jedi with Ewoks and Yoda, Darth and OWK standing together in ghosty relief at the end, that would have remained the overall best of the entire series...IMHO.

Certainly the acting in the original three movies is superior in almost every way compared to the last three. Yes, acting overall isn't as wretched in "Sith" as the first two. You guys are a forgiving bunch...

brandnewfatboy

05-23-2005, 02:39 AM

Just to jump back to page 1 - thanks to Sunilraman for his comments about who gets clones and who gets droids etc. I mostly kapish. must watch other episodes again soon

random thought
if only...We'd had wookies instead of ewoks in Ep6. instead of small irrelevant fluffy things, it would have been the mob of howling kickass chewies that we see fleetingly in ep3

Now, Death Stars. Am I right in thinking that at the end of Ep3 the bad guys looked out of the window at a partially built Deathstar? In which case does it take them another 15-20 years to finish off ready for Ep4?

But, didn't the emperor whip up a deathstar - albeit unfinished - superquick ready for Ep6? Maybe they had a selection on the go, or they had really good steel-frame construction team, but the internal fitting out had union trouble.

cheers
BNFB

sunilraman

05-23-2005, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by brandnewfatboy
Just to jump back to page 1 - thanks to Sunilraman for his comments about who gets clones and who gets droids etc. I mostly kapish. must watch other episodes again soon

random thought
if only...We'd had wookies instead of ewoks in Ep6. instead of small irrelevant fluffy things, it would have been the mob of howling kickass chewies that we see fleetingly in ep3

Now, Death Stars. Am I right in thinking that at the end of Ep3 the bad guys looked out of the window at a partially built Deathstar? In which case does it take them another 15-20 years to finish off ready for Ep4?

But, didn't the emperor whip up a deathstar - albeit unfinished - superquick ready for Ep6? Maybe they had a selection on the go, or they had really good steel-frame construction team, but the internal fitting out had union trouble.

cheers
BNFB

ROFLMAO :lol:

yes wookies would definitely be awesome in episode 6, tie in with episode 3. wookies were cool in episode 3. everybody in the cinema went, "aww...." when chewie lifted yoda onto his shoulder.

yes at the end of episode 3 the bad guys are looking at a deathstar starting to be built. note also that at the end of episode 2 the geonosians (insect things) have the plans for the death star (hence my theory of the emperor harvesting the best tech from both the separatists and the old republic -- nothing like a good ol' war to get the scientists and technicians cranking out new diabolical stuff)

it kinda makes sense. it takes 15-20 years to build this big-ass thing that can essentially destroy a whole planet, recharge, then destroy another planet, all while cruising around in space at a reasonable speed.

in takes only a few years to rebuild because i guess they built it once already, and as we know this is 20+ years on when they first saw the plans, so in the star wars universe technology would have progressed quite fast as well that the emperor 'can whip up a new one' :lol: quicksmart.

edit: also by the end of episode 5 darth vader would have perfected his use of the force-death-neck-grip-killing so extra incentive for everybody to work really really hard as opposed to when he first became darth vader and was perhaps not as powerful :???: :lol:

The General

05-23-2005, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by rok
read as they both cited the stress of the making of that original trilogy for splitting them up. well...

actually, Georges wife cheated on him, and left both him and the children....:( poor george....

aplnub

05-23-2005, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by The General
actually, Georges wife cheated on him, and left both him and the children....:( poor george....

Bummer...

e1618978

05-23-2005, 08:43 AM

it kinda makes sense. it takes 15-20 years to build this big-ass thing that can essentially destroy a whole planet, recharge, then destroy another planet, all while cruising around in space at a reasonable speed.

Maybe they started both death stars at the same time, and one came on line first.

In fact, maybe they had more than 2 going at once.

sunilraman

05-23-2005, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by e1618978
Maybe they started both death stars at the same time, and one came on line first.

In fact, maybe they had more than 2 going at once.

oooh... good stuff if george is going to make a tv series for the stuff that happens between episode 3 and 4

Jamil

05-23-2005, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by ZO
The music. Absolutely nothing original . Re-hash from Ep 1 and 4-5-6. Guess Williams is getting bored and old.

re the music, here's a link to an interview of John williams on NPR radio. john williams interview (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4661664)

Good insight into how the music was composed, specially how he integrated the musical themes of episode 4-6 into episodes 1-3.

It's definitely not rehash but a great thematic composition that is carried across all three movies. When you consider all 6 episodes as one, it really is the story of Anakin and the music reflects that.

Wrong Robot

05-23-2005, 01:01 PM

My main problem with the 1-3 music is that it's more conventional sounding. In 4-6 lots of the music was done with oboes, clarinets and flutes guiding the melodies. It created a very unique presence. Conversely, 1-3 mostly used strings and horns, which, even with well scored music, leads to lacking in the freshness department, and hurts continuity a little between the 6 movies.

The other gripe, musically, I had, was with episode 2, when they goto that bar chasing the changling, I cannot believe they didn't take the opportunity to have some kicking rad cantina music!

ipodandimac

05-23-2005, 01:16 PM

i'll save my rant for my full blog entry in the next couple days, but how bout Anakin's PSP in Ep III? Terrible.

iGrant

05-23-2005, 01:19 PM

WOW, i thought that it rocked, I saw the movie last night and thought is was the best one I had seen out of the new ones that have been made. It answered alot of question that I had.

mello

05-23-2005, 01:45 PM

Wasn't the asian actress Bai Ling supposed to be in Episode 3?

Not Unlike Myself

05-23-2005, 01:53 PM

Speaking to the 'rapid replacement' of the death star... this is an interesting point.... can someone timeline all of this out?

How many years are supposed to have passed from end of episode 3 to episode 4? (in other words how old is Luke?)

Then how many years are supposed to have passed between Episode 4 and 6?

This can give us the 'death star timeline'. Funny, I've had several people bring this up as an issue.

EDIT: Found this timeline. It puts the time between death stars as 4 years. (for death star 1 and 2)

http://www.starwarschicks.com/rpg/timeline.html

We know luke had to be what... 16 17 at least? Hum....

EDIT EDIT: Okay reading on it dates Luke at 20. So lets see... They didn't quite have the DS2 finished so lets say that it would have been finished by year 7 (which is fair considering a good 1/3 of it was missing)

A 3 fold improvment in efficiency? I'll buy that. (given the previously stated technology improvments as well as the 'we've already done this once' factor)

Not Unlike Myself

05-23-2005, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by mello
Wasn't the asian actress Bai Ling supposed to be in Episode 3? http://www.theforce.net/episode3/story/Bai_Ling_Cut_From_Episode_III_91921.asp

Wrong Robot

05-23-2005, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
Speaking to the 'rapid replacement' of the death star... this is an interesting point.... can someone timeline all of this out?

How many years are supposed to have passed from end of episode 3 to episode 4? (in other words how old is Luke?)

Then how many years are supposed to have passed between Episode 4 and 6?

This can give us the 'death star timeline'. Funny, I've had several people bring this up as an issue.

EDIT: Found this timeline. It puts the time between death stars as 4 years. (for death star 1 and 2)

http://www.starwarschicks.com/rpg/timeline.html

We know luke had to be what... 16 17 at least? Hum....

EDIT EDIT: Okay reading on it dates Luke at 20. So lets see... They didn't quite have the DS2 finished so lets say that it would have been finished by year 7 (which is fair considering a good 1/3 of it was missing)

A 3 fold improvment in efficiency? I'll buy that. (given the previously stated technology improvments as well as the 'we've already done this once' factor)

I have always assumed they began construction on the second death star, maybe even before they fully finished the first death star. They most likely started at least once DS1 was finished, but it's not outside the realm of reason to think they'd want 2+ of these things from the get-go.

Additionally, The DS2 was 'fully operational' despite looking half complete. This implies that their priority was creating another super laser, not necessarily a full blown death star station(which was for all intensive purposes a small city as well as a weapon)

Jamil

05-23-2005, 03:00 PM

Two Death Stars??

I thought there was only one. it was damaged in EP4 but not put out of commission, was repaired and brought back online in EP 6.

rok

05-23-2005, 03:04 PM

SPOILER HERE... but honest to god, if you've read the thread this far, you've got half the script already...

i posted this on another message board, but what the heck is up with george lucas and dismemberment? shall we do a tally?

anakin/darth vader = both arms, both legs
count dooku/tyrannus = both arms, head
jango fett = head
general grievous = two hands
mace windu = entire right arm
luke skywalker = one hand
hoth beast = entire arm
c-3po = every limb (okay, that's kinda cheating since it was from a blaster rifle, but he spends a good chunk of TESB as a bag of bits on chewie's back, and gets his head um, misplaced, in AOTC)
darth maul = lower half (or upper half, if you're an optimist)

i know i am missing some, but seriously, what the hell?

Wrong Robot

05-23-2005, 03:18 PM

Alien Fugitive in the cantina = arm
Darth Vader also loses one of his robotic hands in return of the jedi

I dunno... I think it's just a byproduct of playing with, oh you know, super powered laser swords! :p

Jamil

05-23-2005, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by rok
i posted this on another message board, but what the heck is up with george lucas and dismemberment? shall we do a tally?

well the weapon of choice is a light saber, which is basically a sword. What other mortal wound can you conflict with a sword? a deep stab? that is not very dramatic, is it? Also unlike a sword, a saber does not have a dull edge. not like you can knock someone on the head with it. If you notice, it cauterises as it cuts or dismembers if you will. Hence no bleeding. So, even though tons of people are killed on the Star Wars movies, very little blood is shown.

Again with the traction beam power of the force, maybe dismembering is the only way to ensure the holder does not get his weapon back.

Maybe cutting the head off is the traditional method of Jedi execution. Sorta like the Highlander movies.

MacCrazy

05-23-2005, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Jamil
Two Death Stars??

I thought there was only one. it was damaged in EP4 but not put out of commission, was repaired and brought back online in EP 6.

it completely blew up in Episode IV!

rageous

05-23-2005, 03:47 PM

Well wouldn't being vaporized technically fall under the category of "damaged"?

:lol:

Jamil

05-23-2005, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by The General
actually, Georges wife cheated on him, and left both him and the children....:( poor george....

She must have been banging her head on the wall for the past 20years, considering how much more she would have walked out with if she had stuck on till today:lol:

rok

05-23-2005, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Darth Vader also loses one of his robotic hands in return of the jedi

ah yes! that means dv has lost THREE arms. :D

guys, seriously, i KNOW they're dealing with laser swords. i was kinda joking... but seriously, there IS a lot of dismemberment when you start thinking about it. wonder if lucas has a trophy case at home, or the various limbs stuffed and hanging ont he walls in his reading room at skywalker ranch.

;)

johnq

05-24-2005, 01:11 AM

You boys ought to see some Kurosawa films if you think Lucas is dismemberment happy.

Jedi are mostly Samurai, don't forget. ;)

johnq

05-24-2005, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by rok
i posted this on another message board, but what the heck is up with george lucas and dismemberment? shall we do a tally?

anakin/darth vader = both arms, both legs
count dooku/tyrannus = both arms, head
jango fett = head
general grievous = two hands
mace windu = entire right arm
luke skywalker = one hand
hoth beast = entire arm
c-3po = every limb (okay, that's kinda cheating since it was from a blaster rifle, but he spends a good chunk of TESB as a bag of bits on chewie's back, and gets his head um, misplaced, in AOTC)
darth maul = lower half (or upper half, if you're an optimist)

i know i am missing some, but seriously, what the hell?

Do AT-ATs and AT-SEs count? :D I think a few of them get "beheaded"...

And C-3PO gets his arm knocked off in A New Hope after the Sandmen attack.

Darth Vader gets his head cut off by Luke in The Tree dream.

And doesn't Obi-Wan's R5 unit get it's head ripped off by the buzz droids in E3? :D

Wrong Robot

05-24-2005, 01:35 AM

Originally posted by johnq

And doesn't Obi-Wan's R5 unit get it's head ripped off by the buzz droids in E3? :D

Something about this one bothered me a little more than some of the other ones. I think because it was TORN off, not sliced off, as well as the likeness to the endearing R2

sunilraman

05-24-2005, 02:12 AM

Originally posted by rok
ah yes! that means dv has lost THREE arms. :D

guys, seriously, i KNOW they're dealing with laser swords. i was kinda joking... but seriously, there IS a lot of dismemberment when you start thinking about it. wonder if lucas has a trophy case at home, or the various limbs stuffed and hanging ont he walls in his reading room at skywalker ranch.

;)

vader lost FOUR arms.

1. episode 2 - dooku cuts of arm.
....arm replaced by cybernetic one
2. clone wars animated series - anakin goes on some quest, loses cybernetic arm
...arm replaced by cybernetic one
3. episode 3 - anakin loses non-cybernetic arm
...anakin is f8cked, becomes full-on cyborg
4. episode 6 IIRC - luke cuts of a vader's hand
...vader dies saving luke and killing emperor

LUCAS has a dismemberment fetish ;)

just look at the droids getting chopped up and stuff... well, it is the technique with lightsabers though...

BuonRotto

05-24-2005, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by johnq
You boys ought to see some Kurosawa films if you think Lucas is dismemberment happy.

Jedi are mostly Samurai, don't forget. ;)

Not to mention that Lucas is a huge fan of Kurosawa. :D

johnq

05-24-2005, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by BuonRotto
Not to mention that Lucas is a huge fan of Kurosawa. :D

Naturally, Hidden Fortress = A New Hope. :D It's crammed with Star Wars-inspiring details.

Even the the logo for the Galactic Empire is from the back of the robe of the main baddie. You can see it clearly near the end.

The 2 villagers that inspired R2/3PO are great too.

Even the Death Star trench = the horse chase down the long path.

Those movies are great on their own of course. Some are totally shocking and elegant.

Wrong Robot

05-24-2005, 03:30 PM

It's interesting that people often criticize lucas for ripping off X,Y,Z, but then when someone like quentin tarantino does it he's a genius. I guess it comes down to how much lucas acknowledges the shoulders he stands on, but ultimately you know he's paid his dues and respect to those that he would imitate whether or not he publicly raves about it, so it's a pretty lame point imo.

johnq

05-24-2005, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
It's interesting that people often criticize lucas for ripping off X,Y,Z, but then when someone like quentin tarantino does it he's a genius. I guess it comes down to how much lucas acknowledges the shoulders he stands on, but ultimately you know he's paid his dues and respect to those that he would imitate whether or not he publicly raves about it, so it's a pretty lame point imo.

Did you mean me or just "people"?

I delight in all the various things he draws on for inspiration. He's perfectly welcome, in my opinion, to make a mix of Westerns, Samurai, WW2, Buddhism, Tolkien, world myths/Joseph Campbell-ish attitudes and put a sci-fi Flash Gordon/Metropolis spin on things. Why the hell not? Somebody ought to. And at least he does his homework more than the myriad other true hacks. *cough* Battlefield Earth*cough*

If nothing else, he exposed me to countless other fields of interest that I wouldn't have otherwise explored. Seeing various influences rolled into Star Wars just makes me smile when I see them.

Only a fool is going to get all anal and bitchy about him utilizing all this stuff. That's just jealousy.

Wrong Robot

05-24-2005, 08:55 PM

Definitely not you, but I do hear such criticism fairly regularly when people start discussing the merits of star wars and more specifically lucas' skills as a filmmaker.

johnq

05-24-2005, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Definitely not you, but I do hear such criticism fairly regularly when people start discussing the merits of star wars and more specifically lucas' skills as a filmmaker.

Yeah that binary attitude is too boring to bear. He doesn't suck, nor is he a god.

johnq

05-24-2005, 11:40 PM

Bear with me while I play around/toss around my Star Wars/Chakras theory...(Note Campbell is deeply into Hinduism and Lucas isn't at all ignorant of the subjects)...

A quick sketch:

(Crown Chakra/Sahasrara: n/a; not always included with the others; Chakras is "six wheels" anyway)...so six episodes! ;)

Chakra VI: Ajna (http://www.tantra-kundalini.com/ajna.htm)
Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
(Light/Lightning white; mind)
[Death Star 2]
Command, balance of powers/energies, liberation, wisdom

Chakra V: Vishuddha (http://www.tantra-kundalini.com/vishuddha.htm)
Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
(Space/Ether)
[Space/Asteroid belt and Bespin]
Space and Bespin; psychic energy, clarevoyence, speech without words

Chakra IV: Anahata (http://www.tantra-kundalini.com/anahata.htm)
Episode IV: A New Hope
(Air)
[Death Star (hey, it *is* just a bubble of air in space)
Male and Female united (Luke and Leia)

Chakra III: Manipura (http://www.tantra-kundalini.com/manipura.htm)
Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
(Fire)
[Mustafar, burning Jedi Temple]
Immortality, power, selfishness, betrayal (Palpatine is immortal, Anakin/Vader and Palpatine rise to power, Anakin betrays Jedi and Obi-Wan), personal power
Petals: 1 spiritual ignorance; 2 thirst; 3jealousy; 4 treachery; 5 shame; 6 fear; 7 disgust; 8 delusion; 9 foolishness; 10 sadness

Chakra II: Swadhisthanna (http://www.tantra-kundalini.com/svadhisthana.htm)
Episode II: Attack of the Clones
(Water)
[Kamino/Naboo lakes region]
Creation (Clone armies and Anakin & Padme concieve the twins), sexuality

Chakra I: Muludhara (http://www.tantra-kundalini.com/muladhara.htm)
Episode I: The Phantom Menace
(Ground/soil)
[Tatooine/Naboo]
Greed (Jabba, Watto, Neimoidians, Palpatine), security

Anyway, that's just for fun. Probably a coincidence. It's just neat when it does come close.

But we must avoid becoming like this gentleman: :lol:

http://www.mcn.org/greatbear/star2.htm

brandnewfatboy

05-25-2005, 03:03 AM

Maybe Lucas is also a fan of the excellent B movie 'Samurai assassin', which has the tagline of 'It's impossible to keep a bodycount'. Outrageous amount of dismemberment I seem to recall. Not quite in the same league as Kurosawa though.

There was a story in the paper a couple of days ago about two people who were in a wood playing with a homemade lightsabre. Only this was a fluorescent strip light tube, which they filled with petrol and then lit. Unsurprisingly, it exploded. One bloke now in hospital with 40% burns.

Had forgotten that part-built DS2 in ep6 was meant to be operational. Didn't look in best shape for pressurising the inside though. And how did they get gravity inside a DS? Some kind of flangy 'gravity generator' I guess, as I don't think I saw a DS spin.

sunilraman

05-25-2005, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by brandnewfatboy
..... And how did they get gravity inside a DS? Some kind of flangy 'gravity generator' I guess, as I don't think I saw a DS spin.

eh? wtf..? all ships in starwars have gravity generators... from naboo cruisers to general grevious' ship to corellian transports to the millenium falcon ;)

'gravity plating' for something that destroys a planet is easy-peasy :D

johnq

05-25-2005, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by sunilraman
eh? wtf..? all ships in starwars have gravity generators... from naboo cruisers to general grevious' ship to corellian transports to the millenium falcon ;)

'gravity plating' for something that destroys a planet is easy-peasy :D

Particularly needed on a death star.

The outer onion-like surface shells have a planet like gravity, pointing to the center, but internal levels are vertically stacked along the axis. At some point there need to be gravity transition zones.

Not unlike the millennium falcon's 3 gravity zones:

Han and Luke standing vertically on the Falcon's horizontal floor. But then Han goes up the tube to the gun port and now gravity is at a 45 degree (I think) angle.

And Luke goes down his tube and his gravity is also rotated.

;)

Wrong Robot

05-25-2005, 01:38 PM

Gravity gaffes are one of the things I'm very quick to allow in sci-fi. That said, Babylon 5 rules! :)

sunilraman

05-25-2005, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Gravity gaffes are one of the things I'm very quick to allow in sci-fi. That said, Babylon 5 rules! :)

because it actually spins? :D

and the inside is way cool :D

when you are on the inside gardens you can see all the other stuff like around you and above you :D

best use of gravity in a sci-fi story ever...!!

hardhead

05-26-2005, 02:00 AM

Let's not forget; best movie tie-in to mass/crass/commercialism...:lol:

Mmm, Burger King and Star Wars were made for each other.:D

Wrong Robot

05-26-2005, 02:09 AM

I just got back from seeing Episode 3 again. It was even better this time than the first time. I really enjoyed it. Even some of the cheesier lines and moments were forgivable because I saw them coming and could zone out accordingly.

I'm shocked to say this, but... RotS might become my favorite star wars movie(next to a new hope that is)

I have to watch the original trilogy again though, it's been too long.

Wrong Robot

05-26-2005, 02:09 AM

Originally posted by sunilraman
because it actually spins? :D

and the inside is way cool :D

when you are on the inside gardens you can see all the other stuff like around you and above you :D

best use of gravity in a sci-fi story ever...!!

Yup, I love B5, such an amazing series. I was just thinking about watching one of the made-for-tv movies for it actually.

sunilraman

05-26-2005, 05:40 AM

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Yup, I love B5, such an amazing series. I was just thinking about watching one of the made-for-tv movies for it actually.

yup, visual effects are not necessarily "cinema quality" but shows you what you can really do with good writing and LightWave3D.

also one of the few sci-fi things, besides the gravity issue, is looking at space combat where inertia is actually a factor...

oh and unlike the star trek universe where every bloody alien is from an earth-like environment and can all meet and talk face to face in the same room, aliens require different environments

oh and also one of the few sci-fi series where you can actually "wait" in hyperspace" .... yes star trek has shown stuff happening while "at warp" but they are still considered to be in the current 'dimensional space', in babylon 5 hyperspacing - involves accessing different? multi-dimensional spaces wherein point a to b is shorter... i think hyperspace was Red in colour in babylon5 if IIRC -- again, not just stars streaking by.

oh and much better use of psy-powers in babylon5, instead of bloody deannaTroi in sttng with "i'm feeling something is not right" well of course something is not right if not there wouldn't be an episode about whatever the hell was not right...!! as a teenager i was probably mainly just checking out here b**bs... before sevenOfNine took a more 'fulfilling' role in Voyager... bleah... hated voyager, again, i was probably mainly just checking out seven's b**bies

well, hmm i might have started a nerd war here if the trekkies get onto this :devil:

Wrong Robot

05-26-2005, 12:10 PM

So anyway, star wars and junk. ;)

hardhead

05-26-2005, 04:59 PM

<yodavoice>Must go to Burger King, order Double Whopper you will. first you must see Star Burger Wars King...hmmm. Make Lucas richer, you will.</yodavoice>

:D

sunilraman

05-26-2005, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by hardhead
<yodavoice>Must go to Burger King, order Double Whopper you will. first you must see Star Burger Wars King...hmmm. Make Lucas richer, you will.</yodavoice>

:D

<yodavoice>
buy episode 4,5,6 , you also will. price matters not, dvd will you see.
</yodavoice>

so what are y'all ideas on how many clone troopers are still operating in episode 4, 5, 6? can we tell?

i know there are a lot of regular joes who signed up to the Empire and all, but like the hardcore snow troopers that stormed the Hoth base with vader for example, they could be elite clones still...? :???:

just when i thought i knew everything (and gave up) on star wars,
episode 3 at least salvages the whole thing for me :wow:

well, hope lives :rolleyes:
........................

hardhead

05-26-2005, 06:54 PM

s.r., :)

the cool gut

05-27-2005, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by brandnewfatboy
And how did they get gravity inside a DS? Some kind of flangy 'gravity generator' I guess, as I don't think I saw a DS spin.

Well, depending on how big it actually is, it could have enough mass for it's own gravity feild.

However.

Remember in the opening sequence when the ship R2 was on and the ship tipped on it's side? Why in the HELL did everything fall down sideways? The gravity generator should keep everything falling towards the ground, and if it failed, then everything would start floating because they are in outer space. Simply inexcusable dumb filmaking.

And by the way, Lucas is a pretty shitty director/writer/filmaker. The only reason the original trilogy was so good, was because of the hot shit animators / designers that worked on it. Do you think Lucas designed darth vador? Do you think he coreographed the falcon flying through asteroids. No. The guy has made a shit load of money, and has accomplished a lot. He is no film maker, and the complete right offs that episode 1 and 2 where proves it.

Wrong Robot

05-27-2005, 01:56 AM

Actually, if I remember correctly Lucas did design vader. :\

And if Vader and the asteroid flight scene are the only worthwhile moments in the whole series for you, why should anyone listen to you? :p

sunilraman

05-27-2005, 02:44 AM

Originally posted by the cool gut
Well, depending on how big it actually is, it could have enough mass for it's own gravity feild.

However.

Remember in the opening sequence when the ship R2 was on and the ship tipped on it's side? Why in the HELL did everything fall down sideways? The gravity generator should keep everything falling towards the ground, and if it failed, then everything would start floating because they are in outer space. Simply inexcusable dumb filmaking......

well, not as bad as you think.

1. grevious' ship was f8cked. so let's assume the gravity generator went 'offline'
2. the ships were in space, but we don't know if they are actually in orbit
3. thus, it is possible that when the ship is falling, it IS falling towards the ground because it is 'low enough' in the 'atmosphere' that it all the shit on the ship would be falling in the direction of the planet surface

.....
to me in that sense it's excusable
.....

sunilraman

05-27-2005, 04:54 AM

:err: :no:

http://photos9.flickr.com/15909008_823f081170.jpg

pyr3

05-27-2005, 08:31 AM

Originally posted by sunilraman
:err: :no:

http://photos9.flickr.com/15909008_823f081170.jpg

Wasn't it in the news that one of those was stolen by some teenagers? They were caught b/c they only lived 2 blocks away and people saw them bring it home.

the cool gut

05-27-2005, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by sunilraman
well, not as bad as you think.

1. grevious' ship was f8cked. so let's assume the gravity generator went 'offline'
2. the ships were in space, but we don't know if they are actually in orbit
3. thus, it is possible that when the ship is falling, it IS falling towards the ground because it is 'low enough' in the 'atmosphere' that it all the shit on the ship would be falling in the direction of the planet surface

.....
to me in that sense it's excusable
.....

Sorry, the shots showed it clearly in orbit. If it wasn't in orbit, it would be burning up and crashing to earth. That happened much later. And another thing - remember that General guy? He had actual organs under his metal plates - when he jumped into outer space - they would have exploded.

sunilraman

05-27-2005, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by the cool gut
Sorry, the shots showed it clearly in orbit. If it wasn't in orbit, it would be burning up and crashing to earth. That happened much later. ......

ahhh sh1t i was hoping you wouldn't remember that point :(

edit: although, one could get into a massive nerd battle here, and we'd have those in the 'it was in orbit' and 'it was not in orbit' camps...

because it depends on the atmospheric conditions and gravity of Coruscant.

just because it starts to burn up later doesn't necessarily mean that it was not already plummeting to the ground ~ it would only start burning up when the atmosphere got denser and as it caught up speed :p

pyr3

05-27-2005, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by the cool gut
Sorry, the shots showed it clearly in orbit. If it wasn't in orbit, it would be burning up and crashing to earth. That happened much later. And another thing - remember that General guy? He had actual organs under his metal plates - when he jumped into outer space - they would have exploded.

Not necessarily. They could have been treated somehow to survive in space. And people don't "explode" in space either... though it's not exactly healthy for you. There are lots of space fallacies. Like it's 'cold'. There's nothing in space to transfer heat to. So really you end up getting warmer since your body isn't radiating any of the heat that it's producing. There's other stuff too. I can hunt up some links if anyone is interested.

sunilraman

05-27-2005, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by pyr3
Not necessarily. They could have been treated somehow to survive in space. And people don't "explode" in space either... though it's not exactly healthy for you. There are lots of space fallacies. Like it's 'cold'. There's nothing in space to transfer heat to. So really you end up getting warmer since your body isn't radiating any of the heat that it's producing. There's other stuff too. I can hunt up some links if anyone is interested.

pyr3 what is your view on whether grevious' ship was in orbit or not? (see my edit above)

goddamn nerds!! :p don't we have anything better to do...

sunilraman

05-27-2005, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by pyr3
Wasn't it in the news that one of those was stolen by some teenagers? They were caught b/c they only lived 2 blocks away and people saw them bring it home.

i think this is the stock standard 'inflatable darth vader' burger king thingy they ship around the world, 'coz you're in michigan and i'm in a place called kuala lumpur ;)

f8ck i'd love to f8cking steal it though one day ~ if i had my old college buddies around or something it'd be a fun late night caper :lol:

edit: fun late night drunken caper

pyr3

05-27-2005, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by sunilraman
pyr3 what is your view on whether grevious' ship was in orbit or not? (see my edit above)

goddamn nerds!! :p don't we have anything better to do...

Grevious' ship was probably in a high orbit. Whether or not the planet had enough gravity to pull the ship in from that orbit is another question. I wasn't paying very detailed attention when I saw the movie, but some of the ships thrusters could have malfunctioned, plunging it toward the planet.

I'm not so sure about the ship breaking in half on the way down though. Especially the way that it broke. IIRC when the break happened, the stern section folded downward... away from space. If they were entering orbit at an angle that had the top of the ship facing away from the ground, then the stern should have broken away toward space, not toward the ground.

As far as the gravity thing, if the gravity controls have the power to make all the gravity on the ship go in certain directions, then it's possible that it was just a gravity generator mafunction that changed the direction of gravity. I'm pretty sure that the Star Wars universe has these capabilities... I mean at least in episode 6 and beyond the Empire has Interdicter class starships with gravity wells that can be directed to prevent ships from jumping. I'm sure they probably had most of the tech back in the old Republic times. For onboard gravity. If you really want to be technical... If ships have good enough inertial dampeners to prevent people from liquifying when they jump to lightspeed, you'd think that being hit by enemy fire shouldn't knock them off their feet.

pyr3

05-27-2005, 09:26 AM

sunilraman:
i think this is the stock standard 'inflatable darth vader' burger king thingy they ship around the world, 'coz you're in michigan and i'm in a place called kuala lumpur ;)

f8ck i'd love to f8cking steal it though one day ~ if i had my old college buddies around or something it'd be a fun late night caper :lol:

edit: fun late night drunken caper

I didn't mean that specific one... but I heard about a 'Darth Vader inflatable' being stolen on the radio recently. I don't believe it was necessarily in Michigan as opposed to somewhere else.

Fangorn

05-27-2005, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by brandnewfatboy

Query: in Ep2, never really worked out who commissioned all the clones. And who got clones and who got droids. Not really the wiser after Ep3. clones seem to go from bad guys to good guys to bad guys again. Are droids always with bad guys? and who are the separatist fellas? confused.

[/B]

Okay, didn't see anyone else answer this: Palpatine commissioned the clones. He said he was someone else, but he set it up. Thus, Palpatine has control of the clones. Whether they are "good" or "bad" depends on how Palpatine is acting. Palpatine started the whole "separatist" uprising as well. He started the whole war so he could step in and assume power with a large army in place to assure the strength of his position. Think Rome.