W. Mark Felt is Deep Throat, Great american or not? [Archive]

tonton

05-31-2005, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Flounder
I don't pretend to have great knowledge of watergate, but as a reaction, I'd say it takes a lot of balls to call out corruption at the highest levels like that, even if it's done anonymously.

If only we had someone with both connections and balls now.

BRussell

05-31-2005, 04:13 PM

It's pretty sad when a higher-up in the government's law enforcement agency knows about illegal actions but has to resort to press leaks rather than indictments. :\

Anders

05-31-2005, 04:18 PM

I still hope it is Bush Senior. Then I would start believe that there something good in every human being again (or at least in every family)

rageous

05-31-2005, 04:29 PM

Well a confession is a confession, but I'm still a little confused about Woodward and Bernstein not validating the claim even though he's not yet passed...

*scratches head*

JimDreamworx

05-31-2005, 08:53 PM

Woodward said it was him.

I like this guy! Working for the FBI, he must have wiretapped Nixon to bring Nixon down for... uh... wiretapping...

pfflam

06-01-2005, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by AquaMac
What do you think? The fact that he is a Great American is somewhat depressing . . . it should be more common to have someone that stands up for what is right!!

But given that I definetly think he is a Great American

trick fall

06-01-2005, 12:42 AM

Great American, on another note it's a shame that Watergate doesn't seem to be taught in American History class.......

sammi jo

06-01-2005, 03:20 AM

It took the media a long time to latch onto Watergate. But finally it happened. Things were different regarding the media in those days: the weasel:genuine-reporter ratio was a little less unbalanced than today.

Heres a direct parallel: just before the November 2004 elections, Democratic Party offices were burglarized and computers containing sensitive data were stolen, but nothing else.. the burglars knew exactly what they wanted, and this was in Ohio, where there was election fraud on the grand scale. Who heard about this story until now?

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041013/NEWS03/410130378

Sign of the times.

Powerdoc

06-01-2005, 06:09 AM

Great american ?

I have heard on the radio, that Mark Felt was pissed because he was not nominated boss of the FBI.
The Deep Throat thing, was a kind of revenge.

Aurora

06-01-2005, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by Powerdoc
Great american ?

I have heard on the radio, that Mark Felt was pissed because he was not nominated boss of the FBI.
The Deep Throat thing, was a kind of revenge. Politics of Washington and all its power hungry control freaks. Felt wanted the FBI and Nixon wasnt going to give it to him. He still did right but i think for the wrong reasons. Power does corrupt. look at the Republican party at the moment? I think if those clowns owned a little more of Congress who knows what they would pass? Power Freaks. They all suck for their own selfish reasons.

DanMacMan

06-01-2005, 12:15 PM

I find it somewhat comical how some people and some media types are decrying this man as a "great American" and such. Imagine if such a thing happened in modern times, say against a liberal democratic President - where a disgruntled #2 at the FBI leaked classified information to a conservative newspaper like the Washington Times. He would be strung up and hanged for public display, rather than be heralded as a "great American" whom his country owes a debt of gratitude.

Edit:

An interesting take on this matter from former Nixonite, Ben Stein. Link. (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8242)

pfflam

06-01-2005, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by DanMacMan
I find it somewhat comical how some people and some media types are decrying this man as a "great American" and such. Imagine if such a thing happened in modern times, say against a liberal democratic President - where a disgruntled #2 at the FBI leaked classified information to a conservative newspaper like the Washington Times. He would be strung up and hanged for public display, rather than be heralded as a "great American" whom his country owes a debt of gratitude. That's just plain wrong . . . the point is that the information that was leaked was NOT merely classified it was concerning Illegal activities . . . and to remain quiet about it would have been to be morally corrupt

If the Democrats (any of them) genuinly did something of this caliber and it was revealed then I say Hang'em . . . the point is: Do The Right Thing!
NOT 'what team are you on?'

e1618978

06-01-2005, 01:24 PM

Did anyone catch Kissenger's comments on Felt? I saw it on TV, but I was in a resturaunt so I could not hear the audio comments.

Aurora

06-01-2005, 01:42 PM

Listening to Libby the crook,Kissenger and Haig you hear these guys saying they would cover this up and hide what was a crime and illegal activity so what does that tell you about these republicans? they are a bunch of crooks who put Party before country. Hardly patriots in my book.

Felt wasnt a Great American Hero he was just a pissed off Beauracrat who was passed up by a bunch of Crooks. Well he taught those crooks a lesson:smokey:

pfflam

06-01-2005, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by DanMacMan

An interesting take on this matter from former Nixonite, Ben Stein. Link. (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8242) Also, that article you post exhibits a first class Stalinist logic: "if the rule states that I should round up my naighbor on trumped up charges then i must not be immorral and break my oath to the Rule"

Once again: the morality of some stupid ass 'code' tied to a human set of rules when the Moral law of Doing the Right thing should be tantamount!!!

Dare you to think about that / . . . and who else in history asked us to think that way?

rageous

06-01-2005, 02:34 PM

Revenge or not, I don't think doing the right thing makes you great just because everyone around you are a bunch of crooks.

He did the right thing.

The entirety of his life should determine if he was great or not. Aside from his leaking of infoin this case, I don't recall him having a deep meaningful impact on the country as a whole.

Martin Luther King, Jr., John Kennedy, Lincoln, Washington, Franklin, Steve Yzerman... great Americans. Okay Yzerman is Canadian but being from Detroit I feel he deserves his props! Best captain EVER!

Powerdoc

06-01-2005, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by pfflam
Also, that article you post exhibits a first class Stalinist logic: "if the rule states that I should round up my naighbor on trumped up charges then i must not be immorral and break my oath to the Rule"

Once again: the morality of some stupid ass 'code' tied to a human set of rules when the Moral law of Doing the Right thing should be tantamount!!!

Dare you to think about that / . . . and who else in history asked us to think that way?

He did the right thing. The question is " if he was nominated in charge of the FBI instead of Hoover, did he have done the same thing ?"
If the answer is yes, he is an heroe, if the answer is no, he isn't but we where very happy he did it for democracy sake.

DanMacMan

06-01-2005, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by pfflam
Once again: the morality of some stupid ass 'code' tied to a human set of rules when the Moral law of Doing the Right thing should be tantamount!!!
Morality... unfortunately it isn't as cut and dry as you either believe or hope to believe. How does one define "doing the right thing?" Your definition may be different than mine, and is certainly different than those of the men you speak of above. Perhaps to Nixon, saving his administration by lying was doing the right thing.

pfflam

06-01-2005, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by DanMacMan
Morality... unfortunately it isn't as cut and dry as you either believe or hope to believe. How does one define "doing the right thing?" Your definition may be different than mine, and is certainly different than those of the men you speak of above. Perhaps to Nixon, saving his administration by lying was doing the right thing. A stalinist would think that doing the right thing was sending probably innocent people to their deaths because following the rules, or some vague idiotic 'code' was tthe right thing.
Others think that living according to respect of a Law based on decency (as in refusing to lie) and respect for others is the Right Thing.

team player for a liar makes you a liar not a moral guy.

and as far as the 'what if' . . . that is a hypothetical that has probably been put into play by politically invested critics (read: right-wing ideologues) . . . and besides, it has no bearing on reality: it is meaningless.

hardeeharhar

06-01-2005, 08:13 PM

I don't like the term Great American.

I prefer to think that he was a person who with nothing left to lose did the right thing.

I would hate to be in a situation where I knew there was corruption that high in the political structure, but he made that information publically known for the betterment of the Nation, and not a Party.

curiousuburb

06-01-2005, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by DanMacMan
I find it somewhat comical how some people and some media types are decrying this man as a "great American" and such. Imagine if such a thing happened in modern times, say against a liberal democratic President - where a disgruntled #2 at the FBI leaked classified information to a conservative newspaper like the Washington Times. He would be strung up and hanged for public display, rather than be heralded as a "great American" whom his country owes a debt of gratitude.

Edit:

An interesting take on this matter from former Nixonite, Ben Stein. Link. (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8242)

You mean someone like, say... Robert Novak?

http://www.amipatriotic.com/images/novak.jpg (http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/media_player/play.jhtml?itemId=12847)Click for Daily Show clip

Outing a covert CIA operative (because her husband embarrassed the Republican Administration over WMD claims) via leaks allegedly from the White House?
(Can you define "Treason", boys and girls?)

Strung up, eh?

Justice must be a bit slow as well as blind.

tonton

06-02-2005, 12:15 AM

Originally posted by pfflam
That's just plain wrong . . . the point is that the information that was leaked was NOT merely classified it was concerning Illegal activities . . . and to remain quiet about it would have been to be morally corrupt

If the Democrats (any of them) genuinly did something of this caliber and it was revealed then I say Hang'em . . . the point is: Do The Right Thing!
NOT 'what team are you on?'

This is absolutely right.

It is pretty clear that "liberals" believe that you should support the truth.

"Conservatives" believe that you should support your president, even if he lies. But that only counts when it's a Republican in office.

Felt knew that there was a huge probability that the truth would have been covered up if he had followed procedure. He had no choice if his intention was justice.

DanMacMan

06-02-2005, 08:37 AM

Originally posted by curiousuburb
[B]You mean someone like, say... Robert Novak?/B]
Actually that is a good example. Now had he outed someone of more authority and of the nature of something like Watergate, I think things would have played out differently.

pfflam

06-02-2005, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by DanMacMan
Actually that is a good example. Now had he outed someone of more authority and of the nature of something like Watergate, I think things would have played out differently. Yeah . . . that's right: a bunch of criminals doing clearly illegal things that simply would not fly when brought into the public eye is similar to a CIA Operative doing covert work abroad . . .

. . . that is some seriously screwed up analogy except for the fact that it reveals how deeply messed up party-line ideology will go to grasp at whisps!

:no:

pfflam

06-02-2005, 10:16 PM

Check out this patheitic historical thought. . . . I simply can not believe that this man has as much power as the American people give him!!!!

Rush Limbaugh, [ . . . said] that Woodward, Bernstein, Felt and company were also responsible for the genocide in Cambodia that left approximately 1.7 million dead. "Had they not brought down Nixon, we wouldn't have lost Vietnam," Limbaugh affirmed during his Wednesday broadcast. "Had [they] not brought down Nixon, the Khmer Rouge would not have come to power and murdered two million people in a full-fledged genocide." I can't believe this man . . . he reminds me of a sci-fi book by Doris Lessing where an integalactic empire that thrives off of sowing discord distrust and lying energy among humanity installs a glib charismatic TV personality to further their goals

utter blind idiocy . . . . :no:

DanMacMan

06-03-2005, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by pfflam
Check out this patheitic historical thought. . . . I simply can not believe that this man has as much power as the American people give him!!!!

I can't believe this man . . . he reminds me of a sci-fi book by Doris Lessing where an integalactic empire that thrives off of sowing discord distrust and lying energy among humanity installs a glib charismatic TV personality to further their goals

utter blind idiocy . . . . :no:
Technically, those weren't Rush's words... he was reading a post on American Spectator written by Ben Stein which I linked to earlier in this thread.
Ben Stein's post. (http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8242)

rageous

06-03-2005, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by pfflam
Check out this patheitic historical thought. . . . I simply can not believe that this man has as much power as the American people give him!!!!

I can't believe this man . . . he reminds me of a sci-fi book by Doris Lessing where an integalactic empire that thrives off of sowing discord distrust and lying energy among humanity installs a glib charismatic TV personality to further their goals

utter blind idiocy . . . . :no:

Sorry, but Dan is right. Rush quoted that, and then talked about how stupid an idea it was.

trick fall

06-03-2005, 09:42 AM

The rehabilitation of Richard Nixon just blows my mind. The guy didn't deserve to be president of his ski club let alone the United States. He was a paranoid lunatic who mentally deteriorated on the job with his finger on the button. Doesn't anyone listen to the White House tapes that were released? It blows my mind that the thugs and criminals he surrounded himself with all have careers and aren't ridiculed for talking shit about Felt. These people were CREEPS!!!!!!!!!

jimmac

06-04-2005, 01:18 PM

This guy was a hero no question. He did something very tough : reveal stuff about the then current president who was abusing his power. He had a choice and he did the right thing. For the country.

When the wishes of one president become more important than the good of the country ( preserving it's ideals ) something is very wrong. A Hero and a great man!

jimmac

06-04-2005, 01:23 PM

giant

06-04-2005, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by DanMacMan
I find it somewhat comical how some people and some media types are decrying this man as a "great American" and such. Imagine if such a thing happened in modern times, say against a liberal democratic President - where a disgruntled #2 at the FBI leaked classified information to a conservative newspaper like the Washington Times. He would be strung up and hanged for public display, rather than be heralded as a "great American" whom his country owes a debt of gratitude.
a) try looking 'decry' up in a dictionary before using it next time.

b) the current administration is the example of one having a long line of insiders leak information, resign and oppose it resulting in the sequence of events you noted here. I find it amusing to no end when you guys try to write a post to attack 'liberal democrat[s]' and instead end up perfectly describing the failings of the current administration.