Feeling safe yet?

[Harald]

The Patriot Act is to be extended to permit the FBI to subpoena people without the oversight of a judge. It can designate certain subpoenas as ‘secret’ and if you complain about it in public you can go to prison for up to five years.

Oh, original content.

BAAAAAAAA!

[shetline]

Silly me. I thought it was those nasty terrorists who "hate freedom". Well, maybe this is one of those "tough love" kind of things -- know know, you've got to get tough on freedom to protect it, you always hurt the one you love, etc.

Yeah, must be something like that.

[segovius]

Originally posted by shetline
Silly me. I thought it was those nasty terrorists who "hate freedom". Well, maybe this is one of those "tough love" kind of things -- know know, you've got to get tough on freedom to protect it, you always hurt the one you love, etc.

Yeah, must be something like that.

Looks like we've got some Commies in the house :rolleyes:

I for one view it as a patriotic duty to be turn myself in to be arrested and will do so immediately after I finish posting this to say how disgusted I am at the levels to which the US-haters will stoop.

We have to keep repeating this but it just doesn't seem to sink in:

We are at War.

I'm going now to the Office of Federal Corrections and in line with my patriotic duty I shall be asking the officers there for the stiffest possible sentence. Five years is nowhere near enough.

And I shall also be naming some names from a certain jihadi-riddled pinko 'Macintosh' (ha) forum that they might very well be more than interested in......

[groverat]

Sources, please.

[BRussell]

Originally posted by segovius
And I shall also be naming some names from a certain jihadi-riddled pinko 'Macintosh' (ha) forum that they might very well be more than interested in...... And you might want to tell them that their leader is an Arab!

Here's (http://writ.news.findlaw.com/ramasastry/20050531.html) an article with some info about the reauthorization and expansion of the USA PATRIOT Act. Love that acronym. I bet there's a strong negative correlation between the lengths legislators go to make the name of a law sound good and the actual goodness of the law.

[Harald]

Originally posted by groverat
Sources, please. Source. (http://news.com.com/2061-10789_3-5736302.html?part=rss&tag=5736302&subj=news)

[segovius]

Originally posted by Harald
Source. (http://news.com.com/2061-10789_3-5736302.html?part=rss&tag=5736302&subj=news)

Reckon it's about time to start looking for one-way flights out of the country....

[OBJRA10]

This is, and will continue to be, the single worst piece of legislation in the history of our great nation.

[bergz]

Originally posted by OBJRA10
This is, and will continue to be, the single worst piece of legislation in the history of our great nation.

It's Executive Order 9066 for the rest of us. Just in case...this is war, after all.

--B

[Moe_in_Texas]

"Reckon it's about time to start looking for one-way flights out of the country...."

Yeah right . How many thousand folks sneak into the US everyday? I guess they are not informed like the progressive latte sippers.

[Aurora]

Originally posted by Harald
The Patriot Act is to be extended to permit the FBI to subpoena people without the oversight of a judge. It can designate certain subpoenas as ‘secret’ and if you complain about it in public you can go to prison for up to five years.

Oh, original content.

BAAAAAAAA! Welcome to the Police State, its going to take many years to fix what the Republicans have done. This is why the Country hasnt allowed a republican president and congress for decades. This is horrible legislation that needs fixing. They are destroying liberty and freedom inch by inch while growing our Govt. Not a good thing. I urge Republicans to examine what their party is doing. Extremism is never good.

[tonton]

Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
"Reckon it's about time to start looking for one-way flights out of the country...."

Yeah right . How many thousand folks sneak into the US everyday? I guess they are not informed like the progressive latte sippers.

Americans have a great opportunity abroad. We can basically go anywhere and eke out a comfortable life for ourselves. The poorest of the Mexicans and Asians have little opportunity anywhere, so the US (was) as good a chance as any to take, after all we've got the reputation as the "land of opportunity".

[MarcUK]

Originally posted by tonton
Americans have a great opportunity abroad. We can basically go anywhere and eke out a comfortable life for ourselves. The poorest of the Mexicans and Asians have little opportunity anywhere, so the US (was) as good a chance as any to take, after all we've got the reputation as the "land of opportunity".

OT: tonton: The tears album is out, best thing I heard in 10 years. Get it.

sorry folks, carry on...

[BRussell]

Originally posted by Aurora
Welcome to the Police State, its going to take many years to fix what the Republicans have done. This is why the Country hasnt allowed a republican president and congress for decades. This is horrible legislation that needs fixing. They are destroying liberty and freedom inch by inch while growing our Govt. Not a good thing. I urge Republicans to examine what their party is doing. Extremism is never good. It's not Republicans. The USA PATRIOT act was supported by both parties. Feingold I believe was the only Senator to vote against it. There are just as many conservative as liberals, which is not to say very many, who are against it. There's plenty of other junk to be mad at Republicans about, minor things like oh the federal budget and an unnecessary war off the top of my head.

[Placebo]

This wouldn't be that creepy without the "can get 5 years" part.

[ColanderOfDeath]

OK backseat lawyers, how does this law likely stand up constitutionally if passed? Does this not have pretty sizeable 1st and 4th amendment conflicts or does the "War" trump card carry the day?

Also, are there any Republican types here who support this sort of stuff or is this just so icky that even the right wing cheerleaders have to skip this thread because the legislation is so embarrassing?

[addabox]

Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
"Reckon it's about time to start looking for one-way flights out of the country...."

Yeah right . How many thousand folks sneak into the US everyday? I guess they are not informed like the progressive latte sippers.

Progressive latte sipper. Oh, you Texan wags, you never fail to delight me with your pithy yet mindless pig ignorant ramblings; how festive it must be out on the wind swept plains as you get drunk on shitty beer and accidently shoot your dick off.

[groverat]

Moe & adda:

Find something useful to say or don't bother posting.

[addabox]

Originally posted by groverat
Moe & adda:

Find something useful to say or don't bother posting.

Yes sir Mr. Groverat sir.

[segovius]

Looks like any discussion on the Patriot Act has been well and truly locked down (http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/06/319204.shtml).

Democrats on the U.S. House Judiciary Committee invoked a rarely used rule to extend Committee hearings on the renewal of the Patriot Act.

Apparently, they inappropriately called witnesses to testify today from whom the Republicans did not wish to hear. And thus, in what can only be seen as an unprecedented tyrannical abuse of Majority power in the U.S. House of Representatives, Chairman James Sensenbrenner (R-WI), suddenly and without warning, gavelled the hearings to a close! Unilaterally, without debate, and in the middle of ongoing testimony!

[tonton]

Yeah, that's the way to win a debate. Gag the voice of dissent. Way to go with that whole "democracy" ideal, Republicans. Way to go.

[Aurora]

Originally posted by tonton
Yeah, that's the way to win a debate. Gag the voice of dissent. Way to go with that whole "democracy" ideal, Republicans. Way to go. America had enough of the Republicans a along time ago,History will repeat if the democrats can ever offer something better then what they been pushing.

[Harald]

I just saw that video clip of the committee being shut down by the chairman.

Incredible.

Something stinks in your democracy fellows. It's not supportable.

[segovius]

Originally posted by Harald
I just saw that video clip of the committee being shut down by the chairman.

Incredible.

Something stinks in your democracy fellows. It's not supportable.

This is a bit worrying too - it is an actual poster placed on trains in DC area and around :wow:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/june2005/100605poster1.jpg

[shetline]

Originally posted by segovius
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/june2005/100605poster1.jpg
The only thing missing is Cyrillic font. :no:

[Aurora]

Originally posted by shetline
The only thing missing is Cyrillic font. :no: Nazi Germany here we come! Welcome to the police state brought to you by the Republican Spin Machine.The republicans might as well put Swastika's on that Poster. Its the same crap.

[Protostar]

What is all of this "police state" nonsense I've been reading about? I personally have no problem with the Patriot act. If you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to be worried about. As I understand it a lot of potential threats have been neutralized using this and other laws.

Americans have a great opportunity abroad. We can basically go anywhere and eke out a comfortable life for ourselves. The poorest of the Mexicans and Asians have little opportunity anywhere, so the US (was) as good a chance as any to take, after all we've got the reputation as the "land of opportunity".

So why can't they get access to the "land of opportunity" the legal way? These illegals are draining our healthcare and education systems. I think we should beef up the border patrol and instead of deporting them back to their respective countries, they should be drafted into the military. That ought to help out with recruitment.

[segovius]

Originally posted by Protostar
What is all of this "police state" nonsense I've been reading about? I personally have no problem with the Patriot act. If you haven't done anything wrong then you have nothing to be worried about. As I understand it a lot of potential threats have been neutralized using this and other laws.

So why can't they get access to the "land of opportunity" the legal way? These illegals are draining our healthcare and education systems. I think we should beef up the border patrol and instead of deporting them back to their respective countries, they should be drafted into the military. That ought to help out with recruitment.

Uh-huh...

:rolleyes:

[segovius]

Back OT, it seems that another nail in the coffin of US democracy is being hammered home.

Republicans are trying to repeal the 21st amendment (http://blogsdontexist.blogspot.com/) to the Constitution (the bit which limits a President's terms of office to two) in order that Georgie in true el Presidente style can stay in for a wee bit longer.....

[Aurora]

When people are ignoring the Govt removing things like liberty and freedom we have a big problem. Protostar is a prime example of let the police state take care of all. I bet he would enjoy the police coming into his home ransacking it and leaving without even having to utter a word to him or anyone about why they did it. This America not Nazi Germany . You want Nazi Germany then go to Germany Proto. This was land of the Free last i checked not the land of the police state everyone is guilty simply by accusation courtesy of the Patriot act. When we just start throwing our rights away we have big F. Problems. This what makes the control freaks in govt smile. Meanwhile the Border is wide open to illegals but Proto enjoys having his liberty's removed to get a few of those bad guys the govt let walk in in the first place. Brilliant. George Washington is rolling in his grave.

[Protostar]

When people are ignoring the Govt removing things like liberty and freedom we have a big problem. Protostar is a prime example of let the police state take care of all. I bet he would enjoy the police coming into his home ransacking it and leaving without even having to utter a word to him or anyone about why they did it. This America not Nazi Germany . You want Nazi Germany then go to Germany Proto. This was land of the Free last i checked not the land of the police state everyone is guilty simply by accusation courtesy of the Patriot act. When we just start throwing our rights away we have big F. Problems. This what makes the control freaks in govt smile. Meanwhile the Border is wide open to illegals but Proto enjoys having his liberty's removed to get a few of those bad guys the govt let walk in in the first place. Brilliant. George Washington is rolling in his grave.

You have yet to persuade me as to why the US is becoming a police state. The gov't is using the law to root out suspected terrorists, what's the big fucking deal? As long as you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. The only people that should be afraid of this law are the terrorists. So unless you're a terrorist, Aurora, you have nothing to be afraid of. America is far from being or becoming a police state. That's just the usual liberal propaganda and fearmongoring. I donot feel that my liberties are meing removed nor do a great many other people. If we did there would be an uprising and the gov't would quickly change it's ways.

[segovius]

Originally posted by Protostar
As long as you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about.

And you will never come under surveillance or get put in prison unless you do something wrong.....

QED.

[Aurora]

George has been spinning 400 terrorist with the un-Patriot act but CNN reports 39. Somebody is full of B.S. and my bet it would be the President since his WMDS was B.S. Same as him saying he wasnt planning Iraq before 911. But the British are proving that to be more B.S. from this administration. We didnt fight a WW1,WW2,Cold War just to hand over all our Liberties and Freedoms and Democracy to a Govt Bent on Control. Forfathers were smarter then that but Congress isnt. Interesting old George hasnt done squat in Saudi Arabia and yet almost all those terrorist on 911 were from that country. Not Iraq you republican lemmings. Figure it out.

[tonton]

Originally posted by segovius
Back OT, it seems that another nail in the coffin of US democracy is being hammered home.

Republicans are trying to repeal the 21st amendment (http://blogsdontexist.blogspot.com/) to the Constitution (the bit which limits a President's terms of office to two) in order that Georgie in true el Presidente style can stay in for a wee bit longer.....

To be fair, this bill was introduced by a Democrat, and the Democrats have a great chance of winning the next election if Bill Clinton is eligible to run.

[ColanderOfDeath]

Republicans are trying to repeal the 21st amendment to the Constitution (the bit which limits a President's terms of office to two) in order that Georgie in true el Presidente style can stay in for a wee bit longer.....

Minor point but the amendment referred to is actually the 22nd amendment. Obviously you wouldn't be as likely to be familiar with the constitution as an American but this is a well known piece of law/history as the 21st amendment was the repeal of the 18th amendment. The 18th amendment was of course Prohibition. Given that our president is an alcoholic, one would guess that the 21st amendment is probably one of his favorites and he would not be too keen to see it go away. Although maybe now that he has cleaned himself up and found Jesus then perhaps he wouldnt mind a crackdown on alcohol, or as I like to call it, Fermented Terrorism.

[segovius]

Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath
Minor point but the amendment referred to is actually the 22nd amendment. Obviously you wouldn't be as likely to be familiar with the constitution as an American but this is a well known piece of law/history as the 21st amendment was the repeal of the 18th amendment. The 18th amendment was of course Prohibition. Given that our president is an alcoholic, one would guess that the 21st amendment is probably one of his favorites and he would not be too keen to see it go away. Although maybe now that he has cleaned himself up and found Jesus then perhaps he wouldnt mind a crackdown on alcohol, or as I like to call it, Fermented Terrorism.

Cheers for the correction- my mistake.

[Protostar]

George has been spinning 400 terrorist with the un-Patriot act but CNN reports 39. Somebody is full of B.S. and my bet it would be the President since his WMDS was B.S. Same as him saying he wasnt planning Iraq before 911. But the British are proving that to be more B.S. from this administration. We didnt fight a WW1,WW2,Cold War just to hand over all our Liberties and Freedoms and Democracy to a Govt Bent on Control. Forfathers were smarter then that but Congress isnt. Interesting old George hasnt done squat in Saudi Arabia and yet almost all those terrorist on 911 were from that country. Not Iraq you republican lemmings. Figure it out.

Hmmmm... Who am I more likely to believe : The President of the US or CNN a biased news network? Let me see...The President. As for the WMDs he was going off the intelligence provided to him. Senator Kerry voted for the war (of course before he voted against it) using the same intelligence provided to the President. So if you're going to point fingers, point them at the CIA for providing faulty evidence. And Aurora you have still yet to show how our liberties our being taken away. You scream about how our freedoms are being stolen but you are still able to do all of the things you have always done. If this was a "polices state" do you believe that we would be talking on these forums right now?

[segovius]

Originally posted by Protostar
The gov't is using the law to root out suspected terrorists, what's the big fucking deal?

I suppose it would be that they're not.

Fewer than 10% of the people prosecuted for terrorism in the United States since the September 11 attacks were convicted of crimes related to that ornational security, according to a study conducted by the Washington Post.

That's a grand total of 39 people.

Of those 39 people, few had any connection to al-Qaida while the remaining 90% were acquitted or convicted of lesser crimes such as immigration violations or making false statements, the study shows.

The report emerged as President George Bush travelled the country to encourage Congress to renew the Patriot Act, the controversial attempt to counter terrorism by boosting surveillance powers.

Federal terrorism investigations have resulted in charges against more than 400 suspects, and more than half of those charge have been convicted,'' Mr Bush told the Ohio State Highway Patrol Academy on Thursday.

But, according to the Washington Post, the vast majority of those arrested were eventually convicted of only minor violations for which they were either deported or received relatively short sentences.

The median sentence for all of the cases, related to terrorism or not, was 11 months. Of those who were convicted on terrorist charges, most were involved not with al-Qaida but causes and crimes such as Colombian drug cartels, Rwanda's civil war or support for Palestinian groups.

So - glorious success tally so far is 39 people - very few of which were actually al Qaeda. Great work.

Linky (http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/003200506131008.htm)

[Harald]

... in return for which, the US government can subpoena people in secret. If you complain you can go to prison for up to 5 years.

Feeling safe yet? C'mon Naples, defend this one. We could do with a laugh.

[Wrong Robot]

Originally posted by segovius
This is a bit worrying too - it is an actual poster placed on trains in DC area and around :wow:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/june2005/100605poster1.jpg

For now, I'm going to give that poster the benefit of the doubt. There are many reasons why it might...ah fuckit we're screwed.

[Protostar]

in return for which, the US government can subpoena people in secret. If you complain you can go to prison for up to 5 years.

I feel completely safe. Just do it, it's not going to hurt. Just go to court, answer the questions they ask you, and leave. It's as simple as that.

For now, I'm going to give that poster the benefit of the doubt. There are many reasons why it might...ah fuckit we're screwed.

I'll admit the red background it sort of reminiscent of the Communist red flag but the message is good.

[tonton]

Originally posted by Protostar
I feel completely safe. Just do it, it's not going to hurt. Just go to court, answer the questions they ask you, and leave. It's as simple as that.



I'll admit the red background it sort of reminiscent of the Communist red flag but the message is good.

It has nothing to do with the "red flag". Haven't you ever seen any of the Soviet era propaganda posters before? The graphic style is identical.

And no, the message is not a good one. The message reminds people to be paranoid. Can you guess how many innocent muslims will be reported and subsequently harassed for no reason whatsoever, because of this encouragement of paranoia? "Yes, officer, I saw that man in the turban there looking nervous when I was staring at him! I think he has a bomb or something!"

Ridiculous.

[jimmac]

Are you guys surpised at this? I had a very bad feeling the moment this was signed into law. This has been used and will be used more and more frequently on things far removed from terrorism. And look at who proposed it.