G5 - The truth

[Dorsal M]

It's been a while and much has happened in the interim, but some things never change, especially the over optimistic and over pessimistic fellings shared on this board. But it's good to know some things never change. One thing i don't know is how this rumor about the G5 is so widespread. So far I have yet to see one in any lab allthough I don't doubt they exist; inside Apple labs. What we have seen though, is widespread use of the 7460 which is basically a 7450 with an improved method of manufacter. Still this is nothing to sneeze at. They offer linear performance over the 7450 at better speeds. The range so far has been ~900-1400MHz but it is hard to give exact numbers due to the variety of motherboards they exist on. I was shocked when the newer motherboard we were working on were not released at the Expo this past summer. Fully working DDR-SDRAM motherboards were ready with a full assortment of modern motherboard features including Fibre Firewire at speeds up to 1600Mbps with a fibre port and 2 lower speed (800Mb) normal ports. USB1.1 was still there but the board had support for DDR-SDRAM and an advanced system bus running at 266MHz. They were to include CPU's running at up to 1GHz. Perhaps faster CPU's were hard to come by.
Of couse they could have put that plan on ice and wait for the recently announced 333Mhz DDR-SDRAM. The board was fully compatible with the newer SDRAM standard and easy to impliment. this of course would imply the cpu bus to the main controller would be accordingly sped up to provice sufficient bandwidth. Internally on the main controller (memory+PCI+peripherals (there is no seperate southbridge controller)) there is a hyper transport link from PCI controller and peripherals such as ATA/133, USB, audio (also new), etc. Firewire and ethernet have their own seperate connections. This is an advanced peice of silicon. No, to me the only reason to release this board that is all ready this Expo is simple; many of the advanced features would go unused. perhaps there would have been a lack of advanced firewire peripherals. Or maybe they wanted to see the outcome of the memory wars between RAMBUS and the DDR consortium (there was in fact RAMBUS based prototypes of G4 systems floating around that we never came in contact with). In just over a month we will see a leap in performance from Apple's high end. It should be enough to justify their role in high end applications for years to come. We'll see.

[TCO]

Oh come on. That's about the worst fake Dorsal I've seen yet.

[stimuli]

Actually, he sounds legit, and his post was interesting. Also, I these features are totally plausible, and I really doubt A|W ported Maya to OSX to be run on a 500 mhz G4. These features Dorsal M talks about are the hardware Maya should be run on. Basically, with the next G4s, apple will be entering the graphics workstation market. These beasts will be built to do 3D, and will include extra motherboard chips to accelerate this.

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: stimuli ]</p>

[Rmh1572]

If this is the real dorsal which doesn't really matter to me, I am one who is really hoping for a g5 and i realize that it is very improbable but i still have hope. It sounds like these g4's would be a good upgrade, but is there any chance you jsut might not of recieved one or apple wants to surprise everyone or something. i know disappointment might be in my future but is there any chance?

[Jonathan]

nice to see that the real Dorsal has returned.

:)

[Willoughby]

If you go to the US Trademark database and do a search on "Gigawire" you'll see that Apple owns this trademark. If the new Firewire's speeds are as high as Dorsal says they are perhaps they'll change the name from Firewire 2 to Gigawire. Just a thought.

[EmAn]

Seems like the real Dorsal. Welcome back.

[Leonis]

If Dorsal is correct about we only would see Apollo base PowerMac this January I hope Apple won't stick that same God damned $3499 price tag on the 1.4Ghz G4

Apple doesn't deserve to charge people at this price for an 'old' techonolgy

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>

[Jonathan]

that wouldn't be old tech. 1.4 Ghz g4 on a 333 mhz bus with DDR Ram = not old tech.

[Leonis]

Also I am curious about the performance of this DDR base 1.4Ghz G4 machine and how it will compare to the RAMBUS based 2Ghz P4 system.

IF it's performance is only a small gain from the existing DP 800 (should have a big price cut after January) I think I would go for it if I am buying a new machine

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>

[stimuli]

Dorsal M, if you get the chance, could you tell us a little about 3D on these amchines?

[Leonis]

[quote]Originally posted by stimuli:
<strong>Dorsal M, if you get the chance, could you tell us a little about 3D on these amchines?</strong><hr></blockquote>

that's why I am asking how it compares to those high end P4 systems....and oh yeah....those Athlon XP 1800+ systems too....

But I don't think those new PowerMac will beat the Athlon unless it's equiped with G5 :(

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>

[EmAn]

[quote]Originally posted by Leonis:
<strong>But I don't think those new PowerMac will beat the Athlon unless it's equiped with G5 :(
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Unfortunately, I think you might be right.

[TigerWoods99]

Are you sure this is the real Dorsal? Once again, he made his name Dorsal M. That M on the end is enough to make me think its another fake. Please people, don't f*ck around with us re Dorsal. Can someone check the IP?

[Leonis]

I have been running both Lightwave (only helping my friends on rendering) and Cinema using both Mac and Athlon PCs

The 1.6Ghz Athlon Thunderbird smokes the dual 800 PowerMac (not to mention my DP 500) by a quite significant margin while cost slightly more than 1/3 the cost of the PowerMac!

My 1.1Ghz Athlon PC only costs me $600CDN and it's 15% faster on rendering than my DP 500! :mad:

[ 11-24-2001: Message edited by: Leonis ]</p>

[EmAn]

[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>Are you sure this is the real Dorsal? Once again, he made his name Dorsal M. That M on the end is enough to make me think its another fake. Please people, don't f*ck around with us re Dorsal. Can someone check the IP?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The reason the M is there is because the fake dorsal has the name dorsal so the real one can't use it.

[Falcon]

Quite simply Athalons kick one hell of a lot of ass. But who knows how the a G4 will perform with DDR ram and some tinkerings. We may be pleasantly surprised, enough to keep us satisfied untill the G5 eventualy makes its debut.

[AppleProphet]

[quote]Are you sure this is the real Dorsal? Once again, he made his name Dorsal M. That M on the end is enough to make me think its another fake. Please people, don't f*ck around with us re Dorsal. Can someone check the IP?<hr></blockquote>

Confirmed. It is the real Dorsal people.

[Bodhi]

So no G5's. Well that doesn't surprise me really.

Anyway...a G4 based POwermac announced at MWSF better include some technological advances. DDR Ram, HyperTransport and GHz+ Processors (they better not hack off the external caches on the Powermacs like they are with everything else). 800MPs Firewire? Who cares? It will be well over a year before any companies implement it...PC makers are still starting to implement Firewire 1.0 let alone 2.0. It will be a while before Cannon or Sony implement it on their cameras, or Firewire hard drives implement it. I say put money elsewhere Apple, better MB technology, better front side bus. Forget USB 2.0 and 800mbps Firewire, it's too early.

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Bodhi ]

[ 11-25-2001: Message edited by: Bodhi ]</p>

[KidRed]

Ok, I'm confused now. Who's chip is the G5? Is it MOT's or IBM's or both?

According this this badly translated German article IBM and MOT both worked on it-

--------------------------------------------
And where I am straight thereby, still which to the G5: At the front of the next power PC version 75xx - better admits under the name G5 - does which. Allegedly Motorola and IBM work intensively on this chip, so that Apple can achieve their goal already of presenting to G5-Macs anno 2002. Do you have now finally enough?
---------------------------------------------

And why does IBM have a G5 chip<a href="http://lhd.datapower.com/db/dispproduct.php3?DISP?2371" target="_blank">already?</a> Why would IBM have a G5 (server?) chip and then have Apple come out with a G5 made by MOT?

So, if IBM and MOT are fabbing this chip doesn't that help the chances for a Jan release as opposed to March?

[Mac Glue Sniffer]

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>And why does IBM have a G5 chip<a href="http://lhd.datapower.com/db/dispproduct.php3?DISP?2371" target="_blank">already?</a> Why would IBM have a G5 (server?) chip and then have Apple come out with a G5 made by MOT?

So, if IBM and MOT are fabbing this chip doesn't that help the chances for a Jan release as opposed to March?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think this is merely a coincidence as the terminology in that link refers to IBM system model numbers, not the processor chips.

I am inclined to believe Dorsal and will stick with the updated MB with an upgraded G4. Will I try to sell my DP800 before MWSF as I have my past 3 systems in anticipation of a significant enough upgrade to make it worthwhile? Hmmm, been burnt before... but isn't that part of the fun of being on the bleeding edge? :D

[G-Dog]

[quote] And why does IBM have a G5 chipalready? Why would IBM have a G5 (server?) chip and then have Apple come out with a G5 made by MOT?

So, if IBM and MOT are fabbing this chip doesn't that help the chances for a Jan release as opposed to March?
<hr></blockquote>

your answer:

[quote] The IBM S/390® Parallel Enterprise Server™—Generation 5 and Generation 6 family can handle all these tasks concurrently in a stable, very highly secure environment that can grow easily as your business grows.
<hr></blockquote>

[Junkyard Dawg]

Since Dorsal was right about the last mobo/CPU prediction, he must be right about this one. I mean, if his last prediction about new mobos was right, hoe could be ever be wrong.

And of course, if Apple had G5 powermacs, Dorsal would get one for sure, because he's on Apple's inside track. Yeah, Jobs says, "ok, we have the new G5 prototypes all set, now why the hell doesn't Dorsal have one?!?!?".

:rolleyes:

This guy is taking you all for a ride. I've never seen so many gullibil people in my life.

BTW, if you want real insider info, goto badflamingo's forums. They are the real thing, not full of idiots like Dorsal.

[peperone]

[quote]Originally posted by AppleProphet:
<strong>

Confirmed. It is the real Dorsal people.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I love this site. :)

[Belle]

Can someone briefly outline Dorsal M's track record for those of us who paid absolutely no attention last time round?

[Matsu]

He was fairly accurate about the speeds of quicksilver. His motherboard predictions didn't pan out, but to his credit he always spoke of two classes of MB. One of them is like that which people keep predicting (DDR, firewire 2, faster etc etc...) the other was like the motherboard of today -- I remember when he wrote about it still retaining 66MB/sec ATA, people couldn't believe it, but it turned out true.

He did, however, encourage a fair bit of prototype case speculation, usually in the form of cryptic replies to hastily posted mock-ups. This could've been an attempt to remain anonymous to any NDA headhunters scoping the boards. Think about it, all testers probably get the same or very similar mother-boards, but if apple were so inclined, they could seed quickly made one-off enclosures in order to spy which ones end up in the press or on the net. Then they've caught their mole/s. On the other hand, he coulda just been having a little fun -- the protos people came up with didn't look anything like quicksilver.

[AaronS]

Didn't he also nail the specs for the G4 PowerBook and G4 towers that were introduced at MWSF 2001 in January? I honestly don't remember.

_aarons

[Leonis]

[quote]Originally posted by AaronS:
<strong>Didn't he also nail the specs for the G4 PowerBook and G4 towers that were introduced at MWSF 2001 in January? I honestly don't remember.

_aarons</strong><hr></blockquote>


He only talked about PowerMac, I believe

[alwarren@mac.com]

I call BS on this one.

Regards,
Alex Warren

[Matsu]

PS.

how is i that th mods/admins can confirm that this is the real dorsal? I thought that dorsal v1 always anonymized himself???

'esplain' this please.

[TigerWoods99]

Hmm.....reading the post it does seem like it's Dorsal, and the mods have confirmed it is indeed the real deal.

What COULD be the case is:

-Dorsal does not work for a major company such as Adobe that would be sure to get prototype G5s
-Dorsal has received the 7460 machines that Apple will introduce as their back-up plan if there is no way the G5s can ship within a reasonable time span after MWSF
-Apple is in fact going to keep G4s in the low-end PowerMacs and these are the machines that Dorsal has
-Dorsal just hasn't received those G5s quite yet :)

I don't know, I see too much evidence pointing to the G5. However Apple always finds a way to disappoint.

Keep hitting us up with info Dorsal.

[Addison]

Here lies the problem. If he only recieves prototypes there is no guarentee that what he may recieve is ever sold. He is then discredited.

On the otherhand if he is right then he has made the same predictions as other people and doesn't possess any real insider knowledge.

The long and short of it is that unless "Dorsal M" posts a photo of something revolutionally - something he could never afford to do, we will never reall know if ihe is real or fake.

On balance I believe that he does possess (sp!) some insider knowledge and as such enjoy his posts.

[TigerWoods99]

Well exactly. There's no doubt that Dorsal is telling us what he receives. I'm not going to say that he is discredited because the systems he talked about before MWNY never panned out. Like someone in an earlier post mentioned, he usually talks about more than one motherboard. The one he "thought" would be introduced was cut by Apple at the last minute probably. Dorsal gives us great info and his info hints at what we can expect.

[smalM]

Even if MOSR is right, Apple is just receiving G5s version 0.8. I don't think they have MBs or Macs ready to send them out to beta testers. I doubt there are any G5 Macs outside Apple's labs.
BTW Apple is conservative about RAMs so I think we will not see anything faster than 133 MHz DDR.

[BerberCarpet]

[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:
<strong>800MPs Firewire? Who cares? It will be well over a year before any companies implement it... ...Forget USB 2.0 and 800mbps Firewire, it's too early.</strong><hr></blockquote>

*ahem: the following is sarcasm*

What!!?!? No floppy drive? USB? What!!?!?

[BerberCarpet]

[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>BTW, if you want real insider info, goto badflamingo's forums. They are the real thing, not full of idiots like Dorsal.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No way, if we want real insider info, we'll listen to yer drunk friends.

*he he he*

[TigerWoods99]

They could easily stop at Rev 0.8, call it final, then begin mass production.

[applenut]

[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>They could easily stop at Rev 0.8, call it final, then begin mass production.</strong><hr></blockquote>

not if there are still problems

[KidRed]

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

not if there are still problems</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think he was assuming that there were no problems and therefore Apple could finalize it and beging fabbing :)

[PookJP]

Dorsal! Get back in da house and cook us up some mo' rumors! No postin' and den hidin'!

- Pook

[SDW2001]

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>

I think he was assuming that there were no problems and therefore Apple could finalize it and beging fabbing :) </strong><hr></blockquote>


Exactly

[applenut]

well of course if there were no problems they could do that <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[KidRed]

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>well of course if there were no problems they could do that :confused: </strong><hr></blockquote>

LOL, that's what he was assuming in his post when you replied "only if there are no problems". I was just clarifying for you as you seemed to miss that his post concluded based on the possibility of no problems :)

[JB]

I know someone in one of my classes here at APU who works for Warner Brothers, and he says they have been using prototype G5's for the least couple months, and that G5's are coming out in desktop form in the Spring! :eek: He says they are mad-fast, and he says he is going to try to buy one now, but I assured him he would never get one... He said he knew that, but it will be worth a try. He's going to get a Dual 800 decked out (the guy makes some money, and he's only a Junior!!!). ANyways, there's my 2 cents -JB

[alcimedes]

well well, this place is alive again. is it staying up now better than before? i missed the crap people used to toss back and forth around there. /. isn't nearly as entertaining.

[• iBORG]

It must be terribly entertaining for Dorsal M to read through this forum topic and see all the speculation and turns in specs.

Hehe ;-)

Thanks God rumors dont rely on YOU Members =))))


PS: I still dont understand why this site is STILL down and I havent seen a glue for the readers why? I mean, I have been reading a "resuming publication" sicne around April or such ;-))

[EmAn]

[quote]Originally posted by • iBORG:
<strong>It must be terribly entertaining for Dorsal M to read through this forum topic and see all the speculation and turns in specs.

Hehe ;-)

Thanks God rumors dont rely on YOU Members =))))


PS: I still dont understand why this site is STILL down and I havent seen a glue for the readers why? I mean, I have been reading a "resuming publication" sicne around April or such ;-))</strong><hr></blockquote>

Just wait. It'll be back soon. As you may have seen the AI staff has already changed the design and they're working hard and the rumors will be back.

[Matsu]

I guess I have to ask the mods this one again:

PS.
How is it that the mods/admins can confirm that this is the real dorsal? I thought that dorsal v1 always anonymized himself???

'esplain' this please.

[Powerdoc]

Even if i prefer a G5 the outcome of a new G4 the 7460 based on a new mobo with DDR ram sounds logical.
BTW it will be a little bit strange if directly the mac evolution will go directly to the G5 without the step of the 7460.

If The Clock speed of the new chip go beyond 1 GHZ it will be a good new. A speed range between 1 ghz and 1,2 ghz with DDR ram will be a very big progress, the biggest since the introduction of the G3 (at the difference the G3 was in advance at this time ...).

[Amorph]

Also, the G4's performance - especially the 7450's - is throttled back by the system bus, and by memory performance. Just like the 604's was in the 8600 and 9600. The 7460, fed with fast DDR RAM, would be a quantum leap better than the current models.

AltiVec performance in particular is bus-limited.

[Powerdoc]

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>Also, the G4's performance - especially the 7450's - is throttled back by the system bus, and by memory performance. Just like the 604's was in the 8600 and 9600. The 7460, fed with fast DDR RAM, would be a quantum leap better than the current models.

AltiVec performance in particular is bus-limited.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, and it's easy to see the difference of Performance between SDRAM and DDRAM if you look at the benchmarks comparing ATHLON with and without DDRAM.

[Matsu]

Does anyone think that G4's will find their way into consumer macs in 2002??? Or that Altivec will find it's way into G3's???

Some people have said that Apple should just scrap Altivec but I think that a strong SIMD unit is essential for any future looking chip. The tasks procs are facing will only deal with increasingly large blocks of data. Repetitive operations applied to these data sets describes all manner of encoding-decoding of AV data -- something we will all want our consumer macs to do in the next 2-3 years.

However, with IBM not including an SIMD unit in the Sahara at least untill the Sahara II (not untill late 2002 at the earliest) and Apple's reluctance to rely on just Moto, it looks like Apollo belongs only to the 'power'macs for at least another year.

Whadda ya all think? One nice thing about the G5 rumors is that a slower G4 chip would then be available in large enough quantities for the rest of the line-up. Would IBM ever fab Apollos for Apple & Mot to meet such a demand? One nice thing about altivec for every mac would be that everyone just codes for it and it becomes part of the PPC software writing routine. Apple could put their marketing spin on G4 consumer macs: "Supercomputers for everyone!" or some such tag (better than the crap I came up with).

I don't think it'll happen though. Too bad. We better at least see Ghz+ G3's, with a 4 stage pipeline and 512KB on-die 1:1 cache, they ought to be quite fast with or without altivec. Hey wouldn't it be funny if a 1Ghz Sahara was just as fast or slightly faster than a 900Mhz G4?

Anyone with some proc design knowledge care to comment? I was thinking that with a 4 stage pipeline Ghz+ G3's would compare quite favorably with current offerings from Intel and AMD.

[dorsal]

You don't know who you are dealing with here. Be careful about your assumptions.

dorsal

[Slacker]

G5 will be available in a Mac during the 1st quarter of '02.

[peperone]

so many clairvoyants :)

[Addison]

Mods

If you "know" who the "real" dorsal is can you kill the fake account. It's just too confusing having dorsal m and dorsal posting to the same threads.


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Mandricard]

[quote]Originally posted by dorsal:
<strong>You don't know who you are dealing with here. Be careful about your assumptions.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It is hard to be careful about assumptions when there is no authority. Could the real dorsal please stand up?

Mandricard
AppleOutsider

[Jonathan]

real Dorsal = Dorsal M.

other = not.

[jj]

Slacker, that is exactly what I heard. From apple to my source to me.

[TCO]

I don't mean for this to sound all generic and mysterious, and full of sh**, but I do know there will be a new mac launched in January. I have absolutely no clue on the specifics, but I'm guessing the new iMac is far more likely than a G5.

[Addison]

Jonathan, if

Dorsal M = real dorsal

please cancel the account of fake dorsal

[Belle]

[quote]Originally posted by JW Pepper:
<strong>Jonathan, if

Dorsal M = real dorsal

please cancel the account of fake dorsal</strong><hr></blockquote>
What makes the "real" Dorsal Many more valid a poster than the "fake" dorsal?

[wormboy]

An excellent question Belle. (S)he has every right to post and have an account. Although, it should be said that (small d) dorsal has added nothing of relevance to this thread, and the lone post that has been made seems intended to stir up controversy. Juvenile, but not offensive. Certainly not a banning transgression.

:)

[Belle]

[quote]Originally posted by wormboy:
<strong>Although, it should be said that (small d) dorsal has added nothing of relevance to this thread, and the lone post that has been made seems intended to stir up controversy. Juvenile, but not offensive.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know, I think dorsal's contribution to this thread has been one of the most sensible.
[quote]You don't know who you are dealing with here. Be careful about your assumptions.<hr></blockquote>
I honestly couldn't agree more, even though I'm probably taking it in a different context to that originally intended.

[AirSluf]

[Amorph]

There is no precedent for banning accounts for behavior like dorsal's, which might be mildly annoying to some, but which is fundamentally innocuous.

There are good reasons for that lack of precedent.

[Dorsal M]

Dorsal is a common word so no need for banning accounts because of a name. it's not like I have a trademark on it... yet ;) . In the meantime I thought I''d enlighten on some of the details in question. Apple has been so kind as to send some advanced information on their hardware roadmaps. Normally this is so uncommon as to be unheard of! But there are such diverging hardware plans for the upcoming year(s) that it has been made necessary. the line of work we're in demands we have advance knowledge of these plans. They are of the magnitude of when they transitioned over to the PowerPC from 680X0 or the transition to PCI from NuBus. Soon (in a couple of Quarters) Apple's hardware will be radically different than what it is now.Some of the more obscure stuff are the methods of input, output, but some other details focus on SOC develpments from Motorola and Apple and to some extent, IBM. Future personal devices from Apple will have more of an intimate relationship with Apple's desktop hardware, and to a point an integral relationship. Future desktop systems (iMac type machines and modular machines) will have bundled gadgets suited for specific uses (for example: an iPod bundled with an iMac where the iPod would slide in a slot in the imac made for it) depending on the desktop system it comes with. Some of the examples cited indicated to me atleast, that Apple want's to expand it's core business from just consumer and professional graphics artists to business and media creation.

Some of the ideas are novel but not so revolutionary. But other ideas are simply innovative and original. It gives you confidence that Apple not only wants to live on the cutting edge but thrive there. Some of this will become apparent this upcoming expo. The next couple of years will be busy for us because new opportunities have been presented to us. Some will come to fruition soon hopefully.

[undotwa]

Oh boy, am I excited :D

[Junkyard Dawg]

Dorsal, you didn't give us ANY info in that last post. Anyone could have written it. Why don't you post something that will prove you have inside info? Give us some hard facts for once. Can you do that?

[Outsider]

Why does he have to PROVE that he has insider info? Can't he just say what he thinks? Why don't you or anybody else prove they have insider info? because we don't have to. We're just having a lively discussion and this is good for the board. reminds me of the good ole days :D

[Mandricard]

[quote]Originally posted by Dorsal M:
<strong>Future desktop systems (iMac type machines and modular machines) will have bundled gadgets suited for specific uses (for example: an iPod bundled with an iMac where the iPod would slide in a slot in the imac made for it) depending on the desktop system it comes with. </strong><hr></blockquote>

So..... if an iPod were to slide into its "mothership," what happens when one buys the next iWidget? It doesn't fit?

It seems that there would have to be some sort of form-factor convergence, or that this connector (basically, I am assuming firewire) would have to be extended from the machine, rather than having an 8-track-like place that they would join. It seems un-Apple to force such restrictions on its products when they are banking on such open standards as FireWire. I can see, perhaps, a firewire plug on the front of the machine. Are you suggesting a "dock" of sorts? that seems a bit odd.

Puzzled,

Mandricard
AppleOutsider

[EmAn]

[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>Why does he have to PROVE that he has insider info? Can't he just say what he thinks? Why don't you or anybody else prove they have insider info? because we don't have to. We're just having a lively discussion and this is good for the board. reminds me of the good ole days :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly.

[sc_markt]

Macworld '02 prediction:

I believe the Apollo 1GHz+ G4 will be introduced at the Jan. '02 Macworld with DDR and maybe 1394B and/or USB 2.0.

I think the G5 will be released in March of '02 when Apple officially releases OS X.

I don't believe the G5 has floating/integer perf. 3X the P4 at the same clock speed. However, if true, it would be rather nice...

- Mark <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[KidRed]

Alright, so it's either

No G5 in Jan
or
G5 in Jan

So, if no G5 in Jan, when would be the next best place to release it? March? 3 months after a ghz G4? I want a G5, but don't know if I can wait 6 more months for June/July.

[Junkyard Dawg]

If not MWSF, then MWNY. If March, then Apple announces it at MWSF.

It will be announced at MWSF, and you will all be both dissapointed and elated. Dissapointed because MHz won't be as high as some rumors suggest. Elated because performance will be staggering, compared to current Macs, and even to current Wintel boxes. Apple is about to leapfrog the competition.

[KidRed]

[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>If not MWSF, then MWNY. If March, then Apple announces it at MWSF.

It will be announced at MWSF, and you will all be both dissapointed and elated. Dissapointed because MHz won't be as high as some rumors suggest. Elated because performance will be staggering, compared to current Macs, and even to current Wintel boxes. Apple is about to leapfrog the competition.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Well, it's the performance I'm after :) I'm still tugging along on my G4 450 so it will be quite a step up for me. I don't think I'll be disspointed as long as it's got faster system bus and DDR ram. A 1ghz G5 with the faster bus and ram will make me a very happy camper (not to mention the cinema display :) )

[apple.otaku]

[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>If not MWSF, then MWNY. If March, then Apple announces it at MWSF.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ahem. Seybold.

apple_otaku

[Jonathan]

apple_otaku may have something there.

Remember how the G4 was announced as tech @ Seybold fall, intro'ed in January?

Perhaps the G5's technical specifications will be introduced to the developer public @ Seybold, so they can ready their apps = (recompile for 64-bit, add whatever new AltiVec calls are existant) and then the new G5, along with a slew of apps native for it, will be announced to the public in July at NY.

As for the question of breaking 32-bit compatibility, perhaps the Apps and OS would be shipped as a FAT binary, such as was shipped during the 68k-PPC switchover... both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. And, seeing as reports on the G5 say that it runs 32 bit stuff @ full speed, even non-recompiled apps would be fine.

This seems like the most plausible scenerio to me.

So, Apollo @ SF, G5 preview @ Seybold- would seem more likely in later spring, say, April? (effectively killing G4 purchasing for the time being) and then G5 public launch in July. This would also allow higher Mhz chips to be produced in great enough quantities to drive down the price, and also to meet the OVERWHELMING demand that the ~2 GHZ, Pentium 4 killin' G5 would recieve.

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</p>

[FormerLurker]

[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
[QB]Does anyone think that G4's will find their way into consumer macs in 2002??? Or that Altivec will find it's way into G3's???
<hr></blockquote>

I think that Steve guaranteed us Altivec in the consumer (iMac) line in January, when he said we could expect to see a SuperDrive in the iMac in 2002.

I think it will be a G4...although the idea of a G3 with Altivec added on is interesting, there's no marketing bang to this (at least not like upgrading the iMac from G3 to G4).

A G4 upgrade for the iMac line has basically been waiting for the G5 upgrade to the PowerMac line, because we can never have the iMac and PowerMac too close to each other (again for marketing and not technical reasons).

Whether we'll get a "real" G5 or a re-labeled and enhanced G4 remains to be seen.

[quote]
Some people have said that Apple should just scrap Altivec but I think that a strong SIMD unit is essential for any future looking chip.
<hr></blockquote>

Exactly... there is too much Altivec-optimized code in OS X, iTunes, iMovie, etc. for Apple to even consider abandoning it.

[quote]
However, with IBM not including an SIMD unit in the Sahara at least untill the Sahara II (not untill late 2002 at the earliest) and Apple's reluctance to rely on just Moto, it looks like Apollo belongs only to the 'power'macs for at least another year.
<hr></blockquote>

Unless Apollo magically becomes a "G5", as per some of the more reliable rumor sources lately.

[quote]
Whadda ya all think? One nice thing about the G5 rumors is that a slower G4 chip would then be available in large enough quantities for the rest of the line-up.
(snip)
Apple could put their marketing spin on G4 consumer macs: "Supercomputers for everyone!" or some such tag (better than the crap I came up with).
<hr></blockquote>

YUP :D

[FormerLurker]

[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>apple_otaku may have something there.

Remember how the G4 was announced as tech @ Seybold fall, intro'ed in January?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Again, YUP :D

Seybold is, from a marketing perspective, the BEST place to announce a kickass new PowerMac G5.

[Bodhi]

The last post by dorsal m seems quite odd to me. Apple releasing a roadmap like that? Including digital hub devices? I thought that what dorsal did...based on the old AI...was he worked for a company that concentrated primarily on PCI busses and motherboard architecture.

?!?!

[Mike Eggleston]

[quote]Originally posted by FormerLurker:
<strong>

Again, YUP :D

Seybold is, from a marketing perspective, the BEST place to announce a kickass new PowerMac G5.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I whole heartedly agree. And if Apple can make it to where almost every three months or so that they release a new product or an upgrade to an existing product that would really make it FEEL like they are on top of the ball.

And I agree, what better place to announce new chip archeticture then at Seybold.

[KidRed]

K, I'm naive to the Mac convention schedule, when's Seinbold?

I know shows in Jan, March, July, and the Paris show in Aug...

[rrabu]

I don't see any reason why the iMac and tower can't both have a G4 at the same time (running at different speeds). After all, they both had a G3 at the same time in the past. For what was it, a whole year? two?

[baldyman]

The performance difference between consumer and pro will be achieved by different bus architecture and no ddr-ram. In my opinion there really may G4 iMacs in Jan.
Announcing the G5 at Seybold sounds comprehensible. Perhaps in combination with the rumored 19"racked 1U server. ;)

[jethro]

[quote]Originally posted by Dorsal M:
<strong>Apple has been so kind as to send some advanced information on their hardware roadmaps. Normally this is so uncommon as to be unheard of! But there are such diverging hardware plans for the upcoming year(s) that it has been made necessary.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Apple would never, never send out information like Dorsal is suggesting. Partly that's because Apple itself doesn't know what it's going to do years in advance - a lot depends on how things shake out in the industry. Apple can't afford to be wrong anymore when it comes to this sort of design decision, so they'll have to trail the technology curve a bit.

[quote]
bundled gadgets suited for specific uses (for example: an iPod bundled with an iMac where the iPod would slide in a slot in the imac made for it) depending on the desktop system it comes with. Some of the examples cited indicated to me atleast, that Apple want's to expand it's core business from just consumer and professional graphics artists to business and media creation.
<hr></blockquote>

This is just sheer crack smokery. Why the fook would they make an iMac that had an iPod slide into it? It's a frickin' firewire device. There's no benefit to wasting any space on a specialized internal docking port. And since apparently Dorsal was asleep the last few years, Apple already has expanded into media creation (hmm, iMovie, iDVD, Final Cut Pro, et al) some time ago. It'd be nice if they could crack the business market, but that's so far out of reach now it would be pointless wasting any resources specifically trying to do it.

[undotwa]

[quote]Originally posted by jethro:
<strong>[/b]
Apple would never, never send out information like Dorsal is suggesting. Partly that's because Apple itself doesn't know what it's going to do years in advance - a lot depends on how things shake out in the industry. Apple can't afford to be wrong anymore when it comes to this sort of design decision, so they'll have to trail the technology curve a bit.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's not uncommon to send out road maps about what a company 'plans' to do in the future. It's just not common for for Apple to do so, but they have done it. But lately on the software side they've been doing a lot of it, may be Steve does actually have something planned for us in the upcoming 24 months.

[Matsu]

Uhhh Mods,
if you could stop side-stepping the question, how exactly did you go about confirming that this is the real dorsal?

[Addison]

I would assume that since he uses annonomiser (SP) the user (Dorsal M) has set his account with the same user name and password. That is something only the real "Dorsal" could do.

[Outsider]

Matsu, maybe this Dorsal M used the same email addy for registration as the Dorsal from old AI did. IP's come and go. But you usually keep the same email address for a while.

[JRC]

[quote](iMac type machines and modular machines) will have bundled gadgets suited for specific uses (for example: an iPod bundled with an iMac where the iPod would slide in a slot in the imac made for it)[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

I've always thought a palm/visor cradle built-into a keyboard would be great. Allows the user to use the typwriter to key into the palm device DIRECTLY or into Palm Desktop or BOTH simultaneously. Perhaps even allow preferences to bring up the palm desktop when the device was put into the keyboard.

Similar thoughts could be used for iPod. Put in in the keyboard (which is the only thing guaranteed to be near the user, really.) and up pops iTunes. Can edit/type directly to iPod OR itunes, if you decide to change things around somewhat.

Many options along this line.

[pepper]

Well I was banned once for using the "dorsal" name. Pretty ridiculous considering I never said anything offensive. Ban me once, ban me twice, I could care less. At least Belle thought my last post was kinda funny. Believe what you want, just realise that Jonathan and AI control what you do and do not see. :)

dr. Dorsal D XIV

[TigerWoods99]

This is all major bullshit with Dorsal. No way in hell does he get a road map, and his last post is almost laughable.

Who cares what MHz the G5 come in at. As long as we have something over a GHz they better ramp the sucker up for production. If anything Apple can give us downclocked G5s in order to ensure they have a working supply to ship by Febuary/March.

Want real info? I suggest you listen if i ever get in touch with a Motorola employee I knew. Since I'm not under any NDA and if he shows up, perhaps I could get some hard core facts on the G5. I'm just sorry that I can no longer get in touch with him and give the AI community some info.

Anywayz, I think that post just confirms it's not Dorsal. Are you listening mods?

[Matsu]

Once again, I'd like to know exactly how the dorsal identities were verified, especially since the previous dorsal was rumored to always anonymize himself. Did you communicate with him personally? Checking the IP would not, I think, lead you anywhere.

I think you could provide a reasonable explanation without disclosing any top secret details. What gives?

[Matsu]

PS. i think the dorsal banning is a little silly (as is the name squatting) since no one really knows rumor from truth from identity to impersonation here anyway. just my two cents which, in rapidly declining Can$, soon won't amount to any cents at all.

[othello]

just chill out everyone with this dorsal thing. part of the 'fun' of appleinsider [if indeed it is fun] is all the guessing about new releases and was that post true or not.

[Willoughby]

This "Dorsal M"'s style of writing is totally different from the original Dorsal (the old AI).

He never used smilies, never joked around and hardly ever responded to anyone directly. He seemed much more serious and really knew a lot about computer architecture.

This seems fishy to me.

[Jonathan]

We've never banned ANYONE for using a "dorsal" derivative.

Dorsal M = the only one that has the same collaborating evidence (i.e. IP addresses) as the old one.

I've not banned any Dorsal derivatives. Anyone suggesting that is spouting pure horseshit.

[Jonathan]

And Matsu, I explained the whole "why we think one dorsal is right and the other one isn't in a private message to you. Might want to check it.

[Powerdoc]

[quote]Originally posted by FormerLurker:
<strong>

YUP :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

A G3 with altivec is basically a G4. Dont see the interest to design a new chip that already exist !

G4 (7400 AND 7410) = G3 + ALTIVEC + better FP unit (25 % more performant) with better memory performance (Altivec need this stuff in order to work).

Perhaps we can see a G4 like made by IBM, a chip with a SIMD unit with the emulation of ALTIVEC.

[Daver]

Dorsal M is not the real Dorsal. Besides the silly fiction he's passing off as "inside info" in his last few posts, his writing style is completely different to Dorsal's.

Dorsal M posts = bunk

[Jonathan]

If you remmeber, the dorsal threads of old AI were plagued by this same sort of multiple personalities...

let's not use this thread to discuss the verity of the source.

I believe (and have some evidence) that Dorsal M = the same person that posted at the old AI and nailed the MWSF PowerMacs. However, i'm not going to ban anyone that claims otherwise, it's just stupid.

I'd also like to reiterate that we are not banning ANYONE, and whoever suggests otherwise is LYING.

Notice, we're not locking barely ANY threads, and not censoring any words short of f--- here. Frankly, I'm too busy with other work right now to be so anal 'bout these forums- if there's something big, i'll fix it, but mostly, we're hoping that they will moderate themselves.

I probably shouldn't have piped up in the first place, endorsing one Dorsal over the other... but it was just my attempt to be nice and help y'all out.

Don't like it, sorry. I won't do anything in the future to try to credit sources again.

sheesh.

Remember guys...

http://www.se7en-x.com/argue/argue.jpg

(And don't take that image as me being anything other than tryign to lighten the tone. It's a MESSAGE BOARD about TRIVIAL RUMORS! CHILL OUT!

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</p>

[Willoughby]

[quote]Originally posted by Daver:
<strong> his writing style is completely different to Dorsal's.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is there an echo in here? ;)

[Moogs]

I tend to agree with Matsu. I thought it was common knowledge he anonymized himself last time around (hence we couldn't really know his IP)...so how could someone be said to "match" it this time around? Admittedly I don't know much about IP spoofing and such but this whole thing seems a little odd to me.

I will pose this question to users of AI: what does AI itself have to gain from having a "real dorsal" posting here, as verified by mods? A lot of traffic at the very least...no suggesting any Oliver Stone-like conspiracy theories but you have to admit one goal of any popular web site is a steady flow of hits.

<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

[Michael Grey]

Actually the writing style is very similiar (first person/first person plural, lots of fragmented sentences and misplaced modifiers, etc.) But the punctuation and abbreviations are a little different (this isn't too surprising since writing style usually develops early and doesn't change much while sentence mechanics are influenced by a lot of things).

[Jonathan]

Look, we've been contacted by someone who states that they have a personal relationship with Dorsal - knows that their IP's are similar, etc. That's what we're going on.

Moogs- to suggest that we would fabricate things in our forums? that's rediculous. Notice: we have a front page to put RUMORS that WE hear on, why bother with the forums?

I swear, y'all need to chill out about this... we're really not involved with this at all.

[Bodhi]

This is getting ridiculous. Stop arguing about dorsal this and dorsal that. If you have issues with some of the things he says then argue that but dont waste everyone's time hear arguing whether he is who he says he is or not.

[CapnPyro]

very cool stuff, true or not. i also have an aging G4 450 (man i want to play castle wolfenstein.. and doom 3 and unreal 2..) that could use an update, so far JOnathon's seybold announcement and dates seem the most right on. Ill have to start savin my pennies ;)

btw junkyard dog needs to quit with the trolling (demanding info, then making bs topics, ripping off posts etc) :(

[jimmac]

Junky,

I have no idea who's real or what but, I do know that Bad Flamingo was a nice try at building a new AI. It just didn't happen. I like the people who post there but, it's like waiting for water to boil ( not much action ). Also accepting a suggestion from you about rumors is like thinking the National Enquirer will give me insite into the real world. ;)

[jimmac]

Capnpyro,

I also have a G4 450 and it plays those games quite well! Maybe what you need is a new video card? I've got a Radeon in mine and I upped the RAM also ( 640 mgs. ). The preview for Wolfenstein plays flawlessly.

[BRussell]

For you linguistic analysts, and just for old time's sake, here is some old Dorsal.

From March 2, 2001: [quote]Hello people. This has been an exciting time for us here, as last week we received some prototype PowerMacs with a few surprises. They came in new enclosers never before seen. These appear to be still a work in progress, but from the little I can say, they are spectacularly designed. Imagine a 17" Cinema display crossed with the present G4 tower case.

Motherboard.This machine is very similar to the older "UMA2" machine in our posession a while back. A basic rundown of motherboard features: a 300pin sawtooth CPU card connector, 3 DDR-SDRAM DIMM slots, 4 PCI slots in 33MHz configuration, modem slot pads and integrated Airport (Lucent), AGPx4 slot with NVIDIA GeForce2 MX chipset. Board is also slightly smaller in dimensions. ATA is still 66 in these units. System bus is still a double pumped 133MHz bus from memory controller to CPU and Memory controller to SDRAM. 133MHz bus to the peripheral controller chip. Firewire finally at 800Mbps but there is no USB 2 on any of our prototypes. Sound is the same as the "UMA1.5" systems.

[b]Processors.[b/]3 different processor cards. The first is a PPC 7440 with 256KB of L2 cache and no L3 cache. This one runs at 600MHz. The midrange one is a 7450 with 1MB of L3 cache and frequency is bumped to 733MHz. The last one is a dual processor: 2 x 733MHz. Speed is remarkable on all these units.

notes:
The DP unit crashed a few times so far. We think it may have heat issues, and not so much board issues.
All DDR SDRAM is certified and half the DIMMS we put in would not work in the motherboard. The board is much more stable because of this.
Very fast machines. Even the 7440 is very speedy compared to the 667MHz "UMA1.5" we have in here now.<hr></blockquote>
From March 5:
[quote]It's been a busy few days, and limited sleep coupled with weekend working hasn't helped. Here is some information to clear up some questions and/or misunderstandings. The OS we are running is OS 9.1 with an enabler for now. We also opted to install a build of OS X on the machines (4K60 I believe). Regarding firewire and PCI, the nature of our work involves testing equipment that relies on those interfaces, therefore they are very important to us. Also, I believe some of you do not understand how easy it is to implement ATA/100 versus ATA/66 on a chipset. This 'southbridge' is a sample and a work in progress. Some features have not been implemented. Also remember that firewire/ethernet and other higher bandwidth controllers are kept on the northbridge. This southbridge is almost feature exact to the present controller, save a few changes to the interface so the newer northbridge can work with it. Also, memory throughput reached about 630-ish MBps using internal memory testing utilities (we do not trust GuagePro with test systems). The case is like nothing you have ever seen. I mentioned the 17" ACD before only to illustrate this design is as different to other cases as the ACD is to other 17" monitors. Most of you will be pleasantly surprised and welcome the new case. Externally and internally it is meticulously detailed and attractive. It reminded me why I cose to work with Apple in the first place.<hr></blockquote>
March 8:
[quote]Bandwidth is being tested with internal software that is not commercial. This is for both PCI and memory. In fact, some of our engineers believe our software is not adapted or optimised for the new machine and they are retooling some of the code. I might have new numbers soon about memory performance. PCI performance is done with software that shows noticable performance gains over the present line of machines. Notice I said 'noticable' and not 'extra-ordinary'. Performance gains are typically 20-30MBps over the newer digital audio PowerMacs released this winter.

The case has support for the same amount of internal drives as before but they are located in different locations. External bays are the same but one is larger (I am being as general as possible, so make your own conclusions). Port placement is similar, yet slightly different than before. Think three. Creative internal speaker placement to say the least. And lastly, if you liked handles, be prepared to say bye to them.
Good day!<hr></blockquote>
March 12:
[quote]I don't have any information on what is 'UMA3', but what I have heard of the specs are that it will not be a typical chipset like we have today; a memory-PCI controller and peripheral controller. On UMA3 you will see something to the effect of a big PCI-X/peripheral controller connected via RapidIO to the processor which in turn will have a memory controller on board the die. Also there will be another controller just for the Ethernet and firewire on a seperate RapidIO port. This is the basic jist of future chipsets from Apple. But we won't see anything like this until the PPC 7500 is being used in Macs.<hr></blockquote>
May 2:
[quote]Interesting few days. I have had a chance to use 2 new prototypes from Apple. They are contained in the same plastics of the last prototypes but a different color. Where the last ones were a dark gray, these new ones are a much lighter gray with white Apple logos. There is one external 5.25 bay and one external 3.5 bay. It’s hard to explain the case. It is shaped like the cube on its side. Imagine a clear piece of plastic shaped like an upside down U like you would see on a cheap PC exterior case. The top is perfectly flat, and it gently curves downward to the straight sides. Encased in it is a light silver box that fits perfectly inside the plexi-glass outer shell. There is only about 3 inches of clearance from the bottom though. In the front there is a flat front panel that covers the CDRW drive. The drive is a slot load and there is a grove cut into the plastic like the one on the top of the cube. Underneath there is an unoccupied rectangular piece of plastic in the shape of a 3.5” device for future expansion I imagine. Near the bottom of the front panel I see a stenciled white circle with a vertical line through it also like the cube (the power button). The reset and interrupt buttons are located in the back. At the bottom of the case, where the exposed 3 inches of the U shaped plastic and the silver box meet, the U shaped part curls inward and around in four 2-inch diameter circles that form feet. Ingenious! Between the curled feet that rest on the desk, the U shaped plastic is slightly off the desk by about a third of an inch so the edges do not make contact with the desk surface.
Here is a little ASCII diagram to show this: |__|-----------------------|__|

From the side the whole thing looks like a perfect square. It is beautiful.
The rear of the machine has a full compliment of ports and slots for PCI and AGP expansion. The kicker is the way the machine opens up. On the back there is a familiar pop up handle like the cube (do you see the similarities?). This is the point where you pull the whole back out. This should be done when the system is on it’s side because the motherboard slides out on a rack and that rack has everything on it except for the power supply. There are 3 levels of pulling it out. The first will give you access to DIMM slots and PCI slots. The second, you will have to push a catch that enables a full pullout with out disconnecting the power supply cable. The third is pulling out the whole rack sans power supply.

All in all, it is a beautifully designed case, albeit a little limited in drive expansion. I will be using the machine tomorrow extensively and should detail some info on the inner workings of the unit in a couple days. <hr></blockquote>
[quote]Lets talk about hardware. 2 new prototypes are here now. 2 very different prototypes. Let me talk about the first. This one is a single processor UMA1.5 based system. Wait, that’s not entirely true. I would call it a UMA1.7 machine. The reason I say this is because it is using a very large controller we dubbed “Pangea2”. It is a memory controller, PCI-X controller, firewire controller, Gb Ethernet controller, USB controller, boot ROM, audio, ATA/100 and AGP-Pro controller all on one die. Bus speed to the processor card is 266MHz. The Pangea2 chip is very close to the processor module. Motherboard is 33% smaller than the Digital Audio G4. It has 3 DIMM slots that take PC133 RAM. One note is that both IDE ports are ATA/100 now. Also the AGP slot is now Pro, with standard power out. The processor on this system is a Motorola 7450 runing at 933MHz. This system came equipped with a GeForce2MX card. Airport is still on a PC-card type card, but in a different position. The system is running MacOS X 10.0.2.

The second system has been called “The Old Man”. But it is anything but old. It contains the very same Pangea2 chip that the first system has. But instead of SDR-SDRAM, there are 3 PC2100 DDR-SDRAM slots. The rest of the motherboard is the same except that the graphics card is a GeForce3. Power supply on both machines look like a standard ATX power supply. The 2 processors on these machines are running at 800MHz each. This system is also running MacOS X 10.0.2.

More information will come as I get better acquainted with both of these machines.<hr></blockquote>
May 22: [quote]We have not been working on any new machines lately. All our testing and prototyping has been done on present machines bought from Apple (mostly 533MHz and 733MHz models). There is no timeline on when new machines will arrive. But they will come. Final hardware is very close now, if not in a couple weeks then soon after that. From meetings last week, it is my understanding that the feature set of Apple's summer machines are set and there should be product this summer. This only covers the professional line as I have no access to any of the consumer models here.

The standard feature set should include, a highly integrated controller (AGP, PCI, peripheral, memory, network and firewire) , dual channel DDR SDRAM memory running at 133MHz or 266MHz double-pumped, AGP4X (not Pro, Apple will continue to use their own power for AGP), PCI-X (4 slots running at 133MHz and 64bit) Airport slot for 54Mbit device, ATA/100, processors will be the 7440 for lower end and the 7450 for higher end, various dual processor configurations but they may be restricted to BTO, 667-1000MHz speeds, 800 and 933MHz speeds may be skipped this time and may reappear later on in the year (or early next year) as part of a speed bump, maximum RAM will be increased to 4GB, IEEE1394b will debut at 1600Mbit speeds, modem is optional, NVIDIA Graphics will be featured on all retail configurations except for server hardware, which will continue to feature ATI chipsets (most likely Rage128), and finally optical drives I am unsure. I assume they will continue with CDRW on the low end and possibly DVD/CDRW combination drives, like I've seen from Toshiba.

And finally, there will be a new case, but that is still being worked on. I was told yesterday morning that the case we had was an unlikely design, and I don't think Apple is pursuing anything like that now. To have this machine ship, they will probably have a redesigned version of El Capitan with improved drive bays. It was said that the outer shell will closely resemble El Capitan with out the protruding handle on top and more stable (wider) legs on the bottom and still retain the easy open side door. Also the 5.25 drive bays are higher on the case to make room for a second full sized drive bay. This should also mark the end to the two-tone design that resembles an ice cream sandwich. All the lines and surface area should flow into each other. I can't wait to see one up close.

This is all for now. I will try and keep in touch, but until then, good bye.<hr></blockquote>
Sorry for the long post, but I thought it would be interesting to see some of Dorsal's old posts again.

[alcimedes]

thanks for the old dorsal posts.

one thing to keep in mind.

apple toasted "workerbee" after posting on these boards. if dorsal is using the same IP both times around, there's no way that apple wouldn't have gone after him if he's posting legit info.

[CapnPyro]

jimmac good to hear! i only have 256 ram (going to be buying another 512, for what $40? ;) ) now and a rage 128.. ugh. see my dilema? i dont want to spend the $300 or so on a graphics card when i could just save it for a G5 in a couple months.. then again if the GF3 Ti200's can be flashed for macs, id buy one of those. only $99 and as fast as an original GF3. :)

[Moogs]

[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>

Moogs- to suggest that we would fabricate things in our forums? that's rediculous. Notice: we have a front page to put RUMORS that WE hear on, why bother with the forums?

I swear, y'all need to chill out about this... we're really not involved with this at all.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Whoa nelly! Whoaa! I never used the word "fabricate". What I was implying was that perhaps you really don't know much more than we do (whether he's the real McCoy or not), but given a little bit of evidence, might claim "its him" just so people can stop debating it and get back to the old style rumor-mongering discussions we know and...uh...love.
:D

Honesty, I couldn't care less because in the end, we have to wait as long as we have to wait - no amount of scoop or insider info is going to bring the new products to us even a day sooner.

I was just hypothesizing that perhaps it is to AI's benefit to state that it is dorsal, even though you really aren't too sure. Sorry if I offended you. Just thought perhaps you were hoping to stoke some interest in the forums again to get all the old regulars coming back. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself (not malicious obviously), just considering the motives of all parties...conscious or not.

Obviously I was mistaken. Never was any good at conspiracy theories....

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Moogs ™ ]</p>

[Belle]

[quote]I believe (and have some evidence) that Dorsal M = the same person that posted at the old AI and nailed the MWSF PowerMacs.<hr></blockquote>
Does anyone have copies of these posts?

[Chrys Robyn]

[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:
<strong>The last post by dorsal m seems quite odd to me. Apple releasing a roadmap like that? Including digital hub devices? I thought that what dorsal did...based on the old AI...was he worked for a company that concentrated primarily on PCI busses and motherboard architecture.

?!?!</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you follow the industry, you know there are many standards chewing on the bit to replace PCI. This and the previous post from Dorsal M make a great deal of sense, if you follow what's been said in the non-rumor rags.

[EmAn]

I just wanna say that if Jonathan says this is the real dorsal then it is and just leave it at that. I'm sick of people saying how he's a fake just because the writing style might be a drop different.

[peperone]

...and besides it's pure fun here. Someone post a "Your expectations for MWSF02" thread please. :p

[Mandricard]

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
Does anyone have copies of these posts?</strong><hr></blockquote>

See above, dearie. :)

Mandricard
AppleOutsider

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Mandricard ]</p>

[Belle]

[quote]Originally posted by Mandricard:
<strong>See above, dearie. :) </strong><hr></blockquote>
Oops, my mistake. I take it Jonathan meant MWNY?

[Eugene]

And those reposts show that Dorsal was way off back then, and way off today. Why do we fascinate ourselves with him?

If Dorsal throws out a dozen predictions...he's bound to get one of them close.

[ap]

I remember that he nailed the MWSF powermacs.

But I also remember that somebody claimed that he was just posting specs, that already was on some roumor site several weeks before.

And as I remember MOSR released pretty accurate specs a week before MWSF as well. They had the Mhz completely right.

MOSR also had the powermacs for MWNY right.

(and we even had pictures of the new quick silver enclosure from MacosX.org)


Why is it that no one believes the roumor sites??


ap

[BRussell]

[quote]Originally posted by ap:
<strong>And as I remember MOSR released pretty accurate specs a week before MWSF as well. They had the Mhz completely right.

MOSR also had the powermacs for MWNY right.</strong><hr></blockquote>Nah, MOSR was about the only place that didn't get the MWSF 2001 PowerMacs right. Even CNet had the big '733 Mhz' leak, but MOSR was being more conservative.

They were also wrong on MWNY 2001 - AtAT had it right, and that's about it.

[Jonathan]

Big D had the SF powermacs WHACKED before everywhere else though.

WHACKED.

[Belle]

[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>Big D had the SF powermacs WHACKED before everywhere else though.

WHACKED.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you did mean MWSF? Does anyone have copies of the pre-MWSF posts?

[Junkyard Dawg]

I'm gonna whack someone if you don't pull yer head outta yer ass!!!

Dorsal ain't got squat--SQUAT! And when the G5 is announced in Jan, it will be proven!

[undotwa]

Well, I don't think there is much for Dorsal to tell us this time, all he tried to tell us in this thread was that there is no G5 coming out.

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

Here is what I'm hoping for :) :

All have this advance DDRAM and 266 MHz bus thingy Dorsal has been talking about :) .

PowerPC G4s
1.2GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
256MB SDRAM memory
Gigawire
80GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem

(Optional Dual) 1.4GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
512MB SDRAM memory
100GB Ultra ATA drive
Gigawire
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce3 w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem

Dual 1.6GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
512MB SDRAM memory
120GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
Gigawire
NVIDIA GeForce3 w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem

Each model $300 cheaper

[Jonathan]

1.6 ghz g4?

BAHAHAHA!

i like the specs though...

[Blizaine]

Come on peeps give Dorsal (Dorsal M) a break... He is not trying to predict anything, he is just stating the specs of the test systems that Apple sends him (his company), and so far he's nailed some heavy stuff.

Just because Apple didn't release systems with the exact specs of the prototypes he got to play with doesn't mean he is full of crap.

I my self believe what he says because of all the stuff he has gotten right...

later,
Bliz
;)

[TigerWoods99]

Quit hatin on my nigga Dorsal yo.

[catalyst]

[quote]
Here is what I'm hoping for :) :

All have this advance DDRAM and 266 MHz bus thingy Dorsal has been talking about :) .

PowerPC G4s
1.2GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
256MB SDRAM memory
Gigawire
80GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce2 MX w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem

(Optional Dual) 1.4GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
512MB SDRAM memory
100GB Ultra ATA drive
Gigawire
SuperDrive
NVIDIA GeForce3 w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem

Dual 1.6GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 & 2MB L3 per processor
512MB SDRAM memory
120GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive
Gigawire
NVIDIA GeForce3 w/TwinView
Gigabit Ethernet
56K internal modem[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Why's everyone talking about 'gigawire' when we don't have a clue what it is?

[Matsu]

bring back the 680x0!!!!!!!

WOOHOO, retro computing!

[Nebrie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by catalyst:
[qb]

n/m

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Nebrie ]</p>

[Junkyard Dawg]

Dorsal just makes good guesses. He's well versed in the current tech trends, and in the trends among Apple's suppliers, such as Motorola. He hasn't given us any real inside info, only guesses. And of course a few of his guesses were right. That doesn't mean he "nailed" any expos, it only means that if one guesses enough, they will be right.

It doesn't impress me at all when someone says the mobos will either be like type A, or type B, or if Apple decides not to change them then they won't change, but maybe there will be a small bump in bus speed (since PC133 RAM is so popular), and if Apple decides then maybe the mobos will not get squat.

See how easy it is? I want real insider info, Worker Bee caliber shit---the sort of stuff that the Taliban would give their lives to have.

OK, so here's how it's done, listen up!

I've got four prototype powermacs on my desk.

Two are G5s, one has a 266 MHz bus, DDR ram, the other has a 400 MHz hypertransport mobo and it screams. But Apple is undecided between the two.

The other two prototypes use Apollo G4s, one with the current mobo, the other with an updated mobo using DDR ram, 266 MHz bus, and updated firewire bus. They both scream.

MHz: The G5s are clocked at 1.2 and 1.4 GHz. We got a few in that were clocked at 1.6 and 1.8 MHz, but Apple took them back because of some cooling issues. One of the Apollos is clocked at 1 GHz, the other at 1.133 GHz, but we've played around with the bus multiplier and clocked it as high as 1.4 GHz. So Apple could release the Apollo anywhere from 1 GHz up to 1.4 GHz, as the top end.

There, see how easy it is? I pulled that outta my ass, without even reading about anything. Dorsal's "inside info" is about the same...he makes these shotgun predictions that cover any and all scenarios, then when the new powermacs are announced he's always right, because he predicted EVERYTHING!

Damn you people are easy to fool, quick to bait, and hard to convince. Amazing!

[EmAn]

Junkyard Dawg, shut up until you prove dorsal as no real info.

[Jonathan]

JD does have the style...

[Bodhi]

Eugene nailed it on the head!

[ZO]

[quote]Originally posted by catalyst:
<strong>

Why's everyone talking about 'gigawire' when we don't have a clue what it is?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Gigawire is FireWire2... 800, 1.6, 3.2Megabits/sec

[Eugene]

No, Mike Breeden posted on xlr8yourmac.com an anonymous tip of SDRAM 733 MHz Power Macs and other announce products prior to MWSF 2001.

In fact, he was so skeptical, he took the news bit down for a while, then republished it as part of a tip from a C|Net article that posted the same stuff!

<a href="http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-4362156.html" target="_blank">http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-4362156.html</a>

Note the date, a week before MWSF, MHz range spot on: 466-733

"While the new drives may be announced, actual shipment may come later, sources indicated. The company has been evaluating Pioneer-manufactured DVD-rewritable drives, which can also record CDs."

"A slot-loading DVD drive, a first for Mac notebooks, will be integrated into the machine, as will the lithium polymer battery."

Okay, so they flubbed up with the Lithium-Polymer battery rumor, but they were right about everything else.

[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>

[Eugene]

I have 20 prototypes ranging in clock speed from 933 MHz to 1.6 GHz.

Some of them use PC133. Some of them use PC2100 and some of them even use PC800 RDRAM.

One is a G4 "Apollo" and another is a G5.

One has a slot load drive and two 5.25" bays while the other still only has one.

A few of these machines have 3 DIMM/RIMM slots, but just as many have 4. One machine has only 2 slots.

The new enclosures I've seen are very nice, but a few arrived in older style enclosures.

Yadda yadda.

EDIT: Oops, I forgot, please surgically implant buzzwords like HyperTransport, RapidIO, southbridge, northbridge, PCI-X, DDR-333, faster AirPort, Giga-E in CPU, ATA-133 throughout my post.

[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>

[Slacker]

Eugene, while I agree with your sarcastic post.....I do think we can count on RapidIO as it is touted as a design feature of the G5.

One thing I would like to point out is the "north and south" bridge. Why is there no East/West bridge???? Must be all that Gangsta Rap East Coast, West Coast thang. :rolleyes:

[h]

I've got some info that you might find interesting. A close friend who works at Arla (www.arla.se) (the company that Motorola has outsourced its G4 development to) has told me this:

The "Happy Mac" icon that appears when the Mac starts up will be replaced by a "Happy Steve" icon. In sleep mode, the only available screen saver will be "Sleeping Steve".

Rumors are also that Dell is developing new laptops that will display "Angry Steve" and then set themselves on fire on bootup.

[edmac]

Long time lurker, first time poster (here).

My .02 on the Dorsel M thread.

Comment 1:
After reading Dorsel's posts and the Register story, as well as the discussions here, it seems to me that the whole G5 discussion may be marketing smoke and mirrors. I know there are people who know chip design and are sure that a G5 must be 64bit and a 85xx processor, but isn't it possible that the "G5" to be announced is really a 7640 with substantial motherboard modifications, and that Marketing says "Well, that's good enough to call a G5". If the cpu comes in at 1.2, 1.4 and 1.6 ghz, isn't that what Dorsel M was predicting??

Comment 2:
Dorsel mentioned the future of connecting iPod-type devices, and suggested some kind of "docking" port. I agree with those that think a slot for an iPod is unlikely. But Dorsel did say "Future personal devices from Apple will have more of an intimate relationship with Apple's desktop hardware, and to a point an integral relationship." Could this be protents of some type of seemless, wireless integration of the OS with the iThingees? or am I hopelessly trying to read something into the tea leaves.

An aside: Sweet sig, Amorph. Have you checked out <a href="http://www.crackerweb.f9.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.crackerweb.f9.co.uk/</a> for all of you CVBgoodness?

[TigerWoods99]

North Bridge!! :D Oh snaps gotta be careful might get shot for saying that.

Aywayz, I'm siting here eating a piece of pizza from Papa John's right. My brother works at Papa Johns so he came over with a whole pepperoni pizza he got. He told me that earlier in the week he delivered to a guy, and the guy told him to come into the house for a minute while he got his wallet to pay for the pizza. He said the home was pretty nice and he noticed a new computer in the living room that he'd never seen before. He recognized it as a Mac though, and was curious. The guy seemed to be taking his time and yelled "Just a second I think I left it upstairs". So my brother goes over to the computer. The computer had Mac OS X on it so he went to the system profiler. The computer was listed as a 1 GHz G5 with a 400 MHz bus. The ram listed was 512 MB DDR. He noticed Gauge Pro on the machine and quickly opened it. Seemed to be a newer version, and listed the processor as a PowerPC 8500 (G5) and again the bus at 400 MHz. The Gauge Pro showed the memory as being DDR, but not what type. The drive inside the machine was the Pionner DVR-AO3 and the graphics were a GeForce 3. He then heard the man's voice behind him. The man went "Oh, that's top secret. I just got a hold of it this week. It's not in stores yet. Are you familiar with Macs?". My brother then asked him if this was indeed a G5 and the man told him yes and that Apple was getting ready for a major surprise come January. Then he asked the man how he received the machine, and the man said that he was John Rubenstein's college room mate!

[Moogs]

[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>Quit hatin on my nigga Dorsal yo.</strong><hr></blockquote>

:rolleyes:

Are you white by any chance?

[i am monkey]

[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>bring back the 680x0!!!!!!!

WOOHOO, retro computing!</strong><hr></blockquote>

NO doubt! I just bought a SE/30 a few months back. It's fun as hell to have a computer that once cost $4000 for $20!!! :eek:

[SDW2001]

[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>North Bridge!! :D Oh snaps gotta be careful might get shot for saying that.

Aywayz, I'm siting here eating a piece of pizza from Papa John's right. My brother works at Papa Johns so he came over with a whole pepperoni pizza he got. He told me that earlier in the week he delivered to a guy, and the guy told him to come into the house for a minute while he got his wallet to pay for the pizza. He said the home was pretty nice and he noticed a new computer in the living room that he'd never seen before. He recognized it as a Mac though, and was curious. The guy seemed to be taking his time and yelled "Just a second I think I left it upstairs". So my brother goes over to the computer. The computer had Mac OS X on it so he went to the system profiler. The computer was listed as a 1 GHz G5 with a 400 MHz bus. The ram listed was 512 MB DDR. He noticed Gauge Pro on the machine and quickly opened it. Seemed to be a newer version, and listed the processor as a PowerPC 8500 (G5) and again the bus at 400 MHz. The Gauge Pro showed the memory as being DDR, but not what type. The drive inside the machine was the Pionner DVR-AO3 and the graphics were a GeForce 3. He then heard the man's voice behind him. The man went "Oh, that's top secret. I just got a hold of it this week. It's not in stores yet. Are you familiar with Macs?". My brother then asked him if this was indeed a G5 and the man told him yes and that Apple was getting ready for a major surprise come January. Then he asked the man how he received the machine, and the man said that he was John Rubenstein's college room mate!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why do you bullshit us like this? Quite creative though.

[Eugene]

And Gauge Pro was never ported to OS X by NewerTech.

[apple.otaku]

Let's get back on topic. Okay Dorsal M tell us what Gigawire is and describe what the 800Mb and 1600Mb FireWire connections look like. Is one of them optical?

apple_otaku

[TigerWoods99]

"And Gauge Pro was never ported to OS X by NewerTech."

Says who? It was a newer version. :)

[Dorsal M]

I'm afraid I have been kept out of the loop. In fact most of our department has been kept out. While we have been working on G4 based Macs, some of our colleagues ahve not only had access to advanced machines but intimate knowledge of them. I only came to find out about then recently. It has been abnormally secretive.The good news is that the machines are VASTLY superior to the ones we have in our possesion. I believe they are based on the MPC8500 processor we know as the G5 and the speeds are nothing short of breakthrough (in Apple terms). The documentation I saw detailed machines in the 1.2, 1.4 and 1.6GHz range. I have yet to see the cases. But it may be that this week they will have to let us in on it as our department will eventually be dealing exclusively with them. Talk to you soon.

[Bodhi]

sigh

:rolleyes:

[Bozo the Clown]

OK. Speculation time.

Maybe Apple packaged up the internals of the new iMac (w/o case and display) in beige towers and sent these to some developers. Others received the real G5 towers, also in beige towers. This would explain the conflicting reports we've been hearing...

[Bodhi]

Not sure if anyone recalls this but after MWNY it was quietly announced by Apple that they were discontinuing their outsourced hardware testing program or something along those lines. It was my assumption that after the pics of the Quicksilver tower were leaked they made this decision.

[cinder]

“Oh! Ahh. Just kidding! There really are G5s!”

:D

[Bodhi]

[quote]Originally posted by cinder:
<strong>“Oh! Ahh. Just kidding! There really are G5s!”

:D </strong><hr></blockquote>

:p

[Scheisskopf]

[quote]Originally posted by Dorsal M:
<strong>I'm afraid I have been kept out of the loop
[...]
Talk to you soon.</strong><hr></blockquote>

All I can say is I know Scheiß the moment I step in it.

~Mist

[DoodPod]

Hi, I lurk.

I've been reading this forum for about 10 months now, and never found anything quite as humorous as this thread.

Here's just a little theory as to this whole Dorsal M thing:

What would happen if AI used the Dorsal moniker to increase traffic on this BB? This would explain the Mod/Admin secretive nature about how this new Dorsal M series of posts is "known" to be the "real" Dorsal. Are they attempting to increase traffic in hopes of attracting new banner advertisers? Or is there another motive for this line of thinking? Or am I totally off my nut?

Know what? Who cares. Apple is going to introduce whatever hardware they introduce at MWSF. We can't control it. We get what we get. If we don't get what YOU think we should, let Apple know after the show. Simple as that. Squabbling about it isn't going to solve anything; it's only going to serve to heighten your disappointment when the dust has settled.

I don't give two poostix what we get, because whatever it is, it's better than what I've got now. And it's better than what you've got now. Are you going to buy a Wintel box b/c they have a slightly faster CPU? No, you use a Mac b/c it's a more intuitive system. So why bitch?

--

If it wasn't for disappointment, I wouldn't have any appointment.

[cinder]

DOOD!!! POD!!!! :D

Personally, I could never imagine being bored enough to create stuff like this.

well, unless I had a way to profit off of it . . .

<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

[Matsu]

The only way to verify whether or not this is the original Dorsal (which still odesn't prove whether he was legit or not in the first place) is for the Mods to tell us how they verified that this was dorsal. They don't have to tell us where or who he is, just how they confirmed that this and the last were indeed the same.

I got a PM saying basically "we can't tell you how, but trust us." hmm... I'm not sure AI would go through the trouble of a cloak and dagger conspiracy.

[DaveGee]

Fact is no matter what the mods say some will have their doubts... Dorsal could come right out and say where s/he works and then get fired and it even makes the evening news and people would still have their doubts... People are funny that way. Point to the sky and tell em it's blue and they still want proof... :rolleyes:

You have a few choices here...

Believe or Don't Believe

My simple request that has gone totally ignored (you know who you are) is to please cut down on the personal attacks and the nasty and/or rude comments.

The Future Hardware forum has (as of this posting) 197 different topics... If you don't like or believe what Dorsal has to say just move on to a better/different topic.

If every time Dorsal posts and the same handful of people chime in to cut him and/or his reporting down (and maybe drives him/her away) you are doing a great diservice to those who want to hear what s/he has to say.

I still don't know how I feel about Dorsal, I do know s/he called the 2001 MWSF PowerMac's (to a tee) back in the FALL of 2000 (october/november posts)... As for the MWNY PowerMacs... Well the speeds were right but not much more...

Dave,

P.S. Dorsal I sent you a private message...

[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>

[Bodhi]

So what purpose does Apple serve sending machines out for testing? What testing occurs outside of Apple that Apple could not do internally? Maybe Apple approached the testing of the G5 hardware differently than they have in the past.

Has anyone here done hardware testing for a major computer manufacturer before...outside of the company?

[Bodhi]

[quote]Originally posted by DaveGee:
<strong>Fact is no matter what the mods say some will have their doubts... Dorsal could come right out and say where s/he works and then get fired and it even makes the evening news and people would still have their doubts... People are funny that way. Point to the sky and tell em it's blue and they still want proof... :rolleyes:

You have a few choices here...

Believe or Don't Believe

My simple request that has gone totally ignored (you know who you are) is to please cut down on the personal attacks and the nasty and/or rude comments.

The Future Hardware forum has (as of this posting) 197 different topics... If you don't like or believe what Dorsal has to say just move on to a better/different topic.

If every time Dorsal posts and the same handful of people chime in to cut him and/or his reporting down (and maybe drives him/her away) you are doing a great diservice to those who want to hear what s/he has to say.

I still don't know how I feel about Dorsal, I do know s/he called the 2001 MWSF PowerMac's (to a tee) back in the FALL of 2000 (october/november posts)... As for the MWNY PowerMacs... Well the speeds were right but not much more...

Dave,

P.S. Dorsal I sent you a private message...

[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Have no idea who you are referring to but I have been around since the Worker Bee / Dorsal / Kormac76 / NF1 / Motoman days. I have always been a big advocate of Dorsal, especially after the MWSF machines were announced last year. This is a new board and whether or not this IS Dorsal is up for debate and this is a forum where things are debated and this is a Future Hardware forum where Future Apple Hardware is debated and if someone claiming to be Dorsal (whether it is really him or not doesn't matter) is passing along Future Hardware information than whether or not we or anyone feels the info is accurate or not is open for debate. Just as much as you do NOT want to debate whether it is him or not and you have that right, everyone and anyone else also has the right to debate whether it IS him or not and whether or not what he is saying is true or not.

Honestly, I could care less either way. If anything by him being here it's created discussion and anticipation and all of that is cool fun! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[scadboy]

[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:
<strong>So what purpose does Apple serve sending machines out for testing? What testing occurs outside of Apple that Apple could not do internally? Maybe Apple approached the testing of the G5 hardware differently than they have in the past.

Has anyone here done hardware testing for a major computer manufacturer before...outside of the company?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, Apple has always sent out development units of its upcoming hardware to developers (with a few exceptions, imac, ipod) There are a few reasons:

1. This sort of beta testing, much like software beta testing, helps to bring out problems in the hardware when used by real people in real life situations, the sorts of things that can't be duplicated in a testing lab, though Apple does put their hardware through their own rigorous tests as well.

2. It also helps developers ensure that their software is compatible with the new hardware, which is especially important when going to a new processor, or new motherboard configuration.

3. It gives developers a testbed for developing new hardware for use with the new machines to be released alongside the new hardware. Say, if gigawire is going to be a part of the new machines, then developers certainly need a functioning mac with Gigawire to test their new hardware with, yes? And what of the kids who are making the display cards for these new macs? How are they to sniff out hardware-specific bugs if they don't have the hardware to play with.

Often, such hardware test mules are sent only to the most important, or largest, developers. I'm sure microsoft and adobe would be on the short list of developers who get apple hardware in advance, as well as ATI and NVIdia.

make sense?

ciao,

[DaveGee]

[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:
<strong>

Have no idea who you are referring to but I have been around since the Worker Bee / Dorsal / Kormac76 / NF1 / Motoman days. I have always been a big advocate of Dorsal, especially after the MWSF machines were announced last year. This is a new board and whether or not this IS Dorsal is up for debate and this is a forum where things are debated and this is a Future Hardware forum where Future Apple Hardware is debated and if someone claiming to be Dorsal (whether it is really him or not doesn't matter) is passing along Future Hardware information than whether or not we or anyone feels the info is accurate or not is open for debate. Just as much as you do NOT want to debate whether it is him or not and you have that right, everyone and anyone else also has the right to debate whether it IS him or not and whether or not what he is saying is true or not.

Honestly, I could care less either way. If anything by him being here it's created discussion and anticipation and all of that is cool fun! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

I too have been around in those days.. I tend to read a lot more than I post I usually don't post just for the sake of posting... (I also tend to learn more that way) :)

Anyway, the Admins as well as the mods have all stated that this is the dorsal of old and they are the ONLY folks who could confirm things.

Nobody could just take Dorsals word for it (not even me) but a third party group in a position to compare things such as IP addresses and/or email addresses used to create a user name did confirm things. I'm not saying the admins have full faith in Dorsal as an insider but I must trust them when they say this is the same person we knew from the old AI boards.

Some people here want to call the Admins/Mods liars? Well that's fine but I do take their word for it. If I didn't I wouldn't stay here.

Dave

P.S. Dorsal to read private messages click on the "my profile" link at the top of the page.

[Jonathan]

[quote]Originally posted by DaveGee:
<strong>
Nobody could just take Dorsals word for it (not even me) but a third party group in a position to compare things such as IP addresses and/or email addresses used to create a user name did confirm things. I'm not saying the admins have full faith in Dorsal as an insider but I must trust them when they say this is the same person we knew from the old AI boards.</strong><hr></blockquote>


BINGO.

Would you all stop making up conspiracy theories?

We don't care that much. I especially don't get paid by AI, and I have nothing to profit from.


Just chill on the whole Admin Conspiracy, because it doesn't exist.

The reason for a secretive attitude towards it is that we don't want to say that "User XXXXX" knows the IP of "Dorsal" and thereby comprimise the privacy of our posters.

Chill out.

[glurx]

[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>
Would you all stop making up conspiracy theories?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Or at least make them more baroque.

[quote] Just chill on the whole Admin Conspiracy, because it doesn't exist. <hr></blockquote>

Conspirators always deny the existance of a conspiracy. :D

[flowerbob]

actually, as it turns out, there is a large moderator/administrator conspiracy afoot. I happen to know a little because my brother's girlfriend's friend's brother's friend's exgirlfriend's high school crush used to babysit for the friends of the brother of one of the administrators. And i unwittingly got pulled into the plotting.
apprently, it involves all of the administrators both here at the apple insider forums and over at the macnn forums, as well as all of the apple insider moderators. the macnn moderators do not appear to be involved. as usual (there seem to have been similar conspiracies before), the mastermind behind the scheme is "m" (think James Bond), who i believe (&gt;looks over shoulder&lt;) is working for the FBI or microsoft or both. his (her?) number one assistant "n" (it seems this "individual" is one or multiple administrators) is in charge of actually implementing the project. since the primary role imposed on me by the conspirators was simply to disseminate misinformation about the conspiracy, i can't provide any concrete details about their actual goals. all i can say is that they have big plans--bigger than anything seem before. and it has something to do with microsoft, and something to do with (the aquisition of?) apple, and something to do with (a large cut for) new hardware (for this forum).
and the rescheduling of the keynote address for the macworld sf was done for the personal convenience of m, not of steve.
:err:

[glurx]

[quote]Originally posted by flowerbob:
<strong>actually, as it turns out, there is a large moderator/administrator conspiracy afoot. I happen to know a little because my brother's girlfriend's friend's brother's friend's exgirlfriend's high school crush used to babysit for the friends of the brother of one of the administrators. And i unwittingly got pulled into the plotting.
apprently, it involves all of the administrators both here at the apple insider forums and over at the macnn forums, as well as all of the apple insider moderators. the macnn moderators do not appear to be involved. as usual (there seem to have been similar conspiracies before), the mastermind behind the scheme is "m" (think James Bond), who i believe (&gt;looks over shoulder&lt ;) is working for the FBI or microsoft or both. his (her?) number one assistant "n" (it seems this "individual" is one or multiple administrators) is in charge of actually implementing the project. since the primary role imposed on me by the conspirators was simply to disseminate misinformation about the conspiracy, i can't provide any concrete details about their actual goals. all i can say is that they have big plans--bigger than anything seem before. and it has something to do with microsoft, and something to do with (the aquisition of?) apple, and something to do with (a large cut for) new hardware (for this forum).
and the rescheduling of the keynote address for the macworld sf was done for the personal convenience of m, not of steve.
<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

LOL

I'm sure Ryan will be publishing this news just as soon as he figures out how to reboot his server (or pay his bills, or what ever.)

[Tarbash]

Well, if this is the real Dorsal, I always wondered if there were people above him that may have access to more new stuff (like the G5). This could explain why his original post made no mention of it. So his latest post could be accurate, or he could just be BSing to fall in line with the trendy rumors and to get more attention.

[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: Tarbash ]</p>

[Ventral]

Something in the back of my mind just wants to believe...

[Alexander]

[quote]Originally posted by Ventral:
<strong>Something in the back of my mind just wants to believe...</strong><hr></blockquote>

More like the top of your mind, I'd say. :D

Alex

[Ventral]

[quote] More like the top of your mind, I'd say.
<hr></blockquote>


dorsal=back, ventral=belly (front)

I went to a lot of trouble to make that one joke you guys better start laughing.

[AirSluf]

[KidRed]

Back on topic-

Shouldn't the G5 1.2 or so be fabbing right now? I remember reading that the middle chip or so would go into production the 2nd week or so of Dec. I wonder how it's going it at all.

[Codename]

Sorry guys, no G5 at MWSF.

G4's up to 1.266GHz.

[zaustin]

[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
<strong>Sorry guys, no G5 at MWSF.

G4's up to 1.266GHz.</strong><hr></blockquote>

&lt;sarcasm&gt;
Hi, my name is codename, and I like to post short, cryptic messages to make myself look like I actually know what I'm talking about.
&lt;/sarcasm&gt;

HOW do you know this?

brace yourselves for a short, cryptic reply...

[Outsider]

(speaking on behalf of Codename)

I just know.

[KidRed]

[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
<strong>Sorry guys, no G5 at MWSF.

G4's up to 1.266GHz.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sorry guy, but I don't believe ya.

[Toofeu]

Yea Bullsxxt

[specialkbdc]

Moogs

Hilarious post back there on page 3. Not too often I actually laugh when reading these boords.

[Codename]

A little bird told that Trinity shall return, after eating pie, more voluminous than a dolphin...

[ 12-16-2001: Message edited by: Codename ]</p>

[applenut]

codename= PowerMac G4

[KidRed]

applenut-
What's that mean?

[DaveGee]

[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
<strong>A little bird told that Trinity shall return, after eating pie, more voluminous than a dolphin...

[ 12-16-2001: Message edited by: Codename ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Trinity = G4 Cube
dolphin = Nintendo Game Cube?
pie = ????

Not sure about the Game Cube reference either since the G4 Cube was always larger than the GC...

[KidRed]

Wow, secret spy lingo. I'm lost now, lol

[zaustin]

[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
<strong>A little bird told that...
]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I prefer goat entrails :D

[boy_analog]

Whatever type of pie that is, I bet it's humble....

:D

[ 12-17-2001: Message edited by: boy_analog ]</p>

[Junkyard Dawg]

Perhaps a larger cube, targeted at the consumers who want a Mac without PCI slots (or only one), an AGP port for upgrading the video card, and the ability to choose their own display. If it's larger, then it will be cheaper to manufacture, meaning that Apple may be able to price it correctly, as in, cheaper than an iMac? That would be a hit, and it woudl be revolutionary for Apple, if not the rest of the industry.

Codename, he's talking about the Powermacs getting the Apollo. Apollo is rumored to clock at :

1 GHz
1.133 GHz
1.266 GHz

I just don't see Apple using a CPU designed for low power, low heat applications in the Powermacs. It makes more sense for them to use the G5. But if the G5 isn't ready, then I think the above speeds are what we can expect for the new Powermacs. Nice, but nothing great.

The best part about it is that maybe, just maybe, this will free up some of the slower G4s, clocked at around 800MHz, for the upgrade manufactureres. I'd love to drop an 800 MHz CPU into my 400 MHz Sawtooth. Better yet, a dual 800 MHz upgrade! But alas, the upgrades are so expensive it's usually cheaper to just sell one's computer and put the money towards a new Powermac.

[Strangelove]

unfortunately what codename said may be true..i personally want a g5 but the sky looks cloudy..and word has it that if the g5 is not ready (likely) then we shall see a quad g4. not bad either, but pricey. only for the high-end folks.

[postheide]

[quote]Originally posted by BRussell:
<strong>For you linguistic analysts, and just for old time's sake, here is some old Dorsal.

From March 2, 2001:
Sorry for the long post, but I thought it would be interesting to see some of Dorsal's old posts again.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ok, but Dorsal M registered on 11-23-2001. So where do his old posts come from.

[boy_analog]

Dorsal's old posts come from the old AI, before the extended period off the air.

[Amorph]

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>applenut-
What's that [Codename = PowerMac G4] mean?</strong><hr></blockquote>

PowerMac G4 was a poster to the old AI boards. Waaaay back in the day he posted as Codename, and it appears that he's reverted to his old handle.

As I recall, he claimed to have a source at Motorola.

[Bodhi]

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>codename= PowerMac G4</strong><hr></blockquote>

Fran? Where are ya? Here is your chance...

&lt;&lt;Fran thinks that PowermacG4 - Codename - Nick DePlume are all the same person&gt;&gt;

[CodeWarrior]

G5 is confirmed (love that!) for MWSF2002

Check out
<a href="http://www.hamrick.com/vsm.html" target="_blank">http://www.hamrick.com/vsm.html</a>

It says on the site:
Please note that the shareware version of VueScan is disabled on PowerPC G5 processors.

xlr8yourmac.com has the link.

[postheide]

[quote]Originally posted by CodeWarrior:
<strong>G5 is confirmed (love that!) for MWSF2002

Check out
<a href="http://www.hamrick.com/vsm.html" target="_blank">http://www.hamrick.com/vsm.html</a>

It says on the site:
Please note that the shareware version of VueScan is disabled on PowerPC G5 processors.

xlr8yourmac.com has the link.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Who is hamrick that they would have access to G5 machines. Forget that.

[Moogs]

[quote]Originally posted by specialkbdc:
<strong>Moogs

Hilarious post back there on page 3. Not too often I actually laugh when reading these boords.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Thanks. But surely you can't be serious when you imply you don't often find anything to laugh about on these forums. This room in particular is ripe with butt-gusting commentary and hypothesis. Frankly, I usually find it hard NOT to laugh....

:D

[Nonsuch]

Just to pee on the campfire a little bit, this was posted on MacNN today:

[quote]
I dunno where people are getting this stuff, but I *assure* you that there will be no G5 at MacWorld/SF -- indeed, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if there were no G5s in 2002 at all. It just isn't on the radar screen, and won't be under late 2002 at the earliest.

The new Apollo G4's are really G4.5's -- and they will reach some pretty decent clockspeeds in 2002.

________________

Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
<hr></blockquote>

Andrew is reliable when it comes to nuts-and-bolts computer stuff, but I don't know what source/info he's relying on here.

Another fellow:

[quote]
There will be no "G5" in January, but 3 new G4 models based on the 7460 chip with the low-end G4 surpassing the speed of our current fastest, and the high-end topping out at 1.4GHz. The processor speed along with a faster version of DDR SDRAM @266MHz should dramatically change the feel of our current slug of an OS.
<hr></blockquote>

I am trying to temper my expectations, but I do hope JYD's reasoning turns out to be correct.

[AirSluf]

[Ptrash]

Perhaps a larger cube, targeted at the consumers who want a Mac without PCI slots

An Imac cube, 1ghz G3 with an LCD monitor for $1299? $1399? ...do we hear $1499?

[boy_analog]

I used to believe in Dorsal, really I did. But that story about only a core group in his firm having access to the G5 makes no sense at all to me. Either he has access to secret hardware or he doesn't. Either his company needs him to test new hardware or it doesn't. A secret's a secret folks: it's all about trust.

On the other hand, I think that Andrew Welch would be on a first-name basis with a lot of the movers and shakers at Apple. Ambrosia is a Mac-only shareware house that produces the only Mac-only games that people are passionate about.

Mmmmmmm ... EV Nova ........


Where was I? Oh.

Don't get too attached to all the stories that are floating around about G5s. Faster Macs are imminent; TiBooks with combo drives have just been announced; plenty of windroids are looking longingly at iBooks with OSX; life is good.

[G-News]

Rumors tend to be fun as long as they're about 1 year ahead of the actual event, when everyone is still believing just one version, sicne there only is ONE version of the rumor. as soon as every 12 year old pimp starts claiming he's got sources and tells stories about whatever is coming etc etc, it only get's ppl angry and excited.
Personally I like the versino of G5 being in development and being twice as fast as a P4 at the same speed. Everything that came after that is irrelevant, because what the mainboard's hardware will be, depends on the actual date of release anyway. I'll just wait and see, and I'm glad that I can do that, unlike many others around here it seems.

G-News

[Outsider]

This is what discredits him in my eyes:

The new Apollo G4's are really G4.5's -- and they will reach some pretty decent clockspeeds in 2002.

If he really understood hardware then he would know that the Apollo is just a SOI based 7450. It's even made on 180nm just like the 7450. Now if he knows something that no one else knows, like it will have 512KB L2, extra execution units and double precision Altivec with DDR bus support, then I guess it would be more than just a process upgraded G4. But something tells me Apollo will slightly underwhelming. (up to 1.4GHz? come on.)

[Aphelion]

[quote]Originally posted by Ptrash:
<strong>Perhaps a larger cube, targeted at the consumers who want a Mac without PCI slots

An Imac cube, 1ghz G3 with an LCD monitor for $1299? $1399? ...do we hear $1499?</strong><hr></blockquote>

How about the same Cube but with gigabyte Apollo, DVD combo drive, 100 Gig HD, ATi Radon "All in Wonder" with record to disk. Nintendo Game Cube emulation standard with Panasonic "Q" drive.

$1499 for the Cube "Digital Hub"

[4fx]

Speculating about a G5 is fun and all...
but people, take a chill pill!

Why do you all care so much?
If Dorsal M or any other is correct what difference does it make to you? Are you going to buy one BEFORE Steve anounces it? Come on! What anyone says makes NO difference to what will actually happen. You are only wasting your time arguing about somthing that is relatively unimportant.

What will happen, will happen.

[sc_markt]

Not sure if anybody saw this but Architosh.com has
another article on the G5. Here is the link...

<a href="http://www.architosh.com/news/2001-12/2001c-1215-g4g5.phtml" target="_blank">http://www.architosh.com/news/2001-12/2001c-1215-g4g5.phtml</a>

- Mark

[Codename]

El Capitan's hamartia shall lead to Trinity's return and its rise to the throne,
Its little brother shall rule in the great desert where the dolphins roam.

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Codename ]</p>

[apple.otaku]

[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
<strong>El Capitan's hamartia shall lead to Trinity's return and its rise to the throne,
Its little brother shall rule in the great desert where the dolphins roam.

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Codename ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

What flaw would that be?

[Bodhi]

[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
<strong>El Capitan's hamartia shall lead to Trinity's return and its rise to the throne,
Its little brother shall rule in the great desert where the dolphins roam.

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: Codename ]</strong><hr></blockquote>


PowerMacG4 -

English please!

[Willoughby]

Was El Capitan the beige G3 or the blue and white G3? Yosemite and Yikes were the first G4s I believe.
hamartia = tragic flaw (as pointed out above)

I didn't think there was anything tragic about the G3 boxes. If Trinity = Cube, I can't see what is so bad about the current towers that would bring back the cube. Size? Fan?
Expandability? Oh wait, thats a good thing

[cinder]

Ooh!
I love riddles.

Flaw . . . lack of expandability? weird shape?
lack of breathing room?

Trinity? new case design I guess . . . tri - what?
5.25 drive bays? :D

Little brother?

as in the iMac . . .?

dolphin . . .?
Gamecube uses the dolphin. the Gamecube is a cube . . .

iMac will be the re-cube?

fun.

[Willoughby]

I made a mistake. Yosemite was the Blue and White G3.
El Capitan was the codename for the "case", which is still the current case.

Now whats the deal with the desert thing?

[Nonsuch]

Damn it, I hate it when Nostradamus posts ...

[Voulge]

SAHARA

Sahara is the codename for the 1 GHZ-class G3 from IBM.

[Willoughby]

So the Dolphin was the codename for the Gamecube which uses an IBM G3 class processor.
Sahara is a G3.
So lets assume the iMac is the little brother of the Powermac.
I guess he's saying the iMacs will stay at G3s ;)

I still don't see why the cube could come back. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[Hornet]

Easy :)

El Capitan's hamartia
hmm

shall lead to Trinity's return and its rise to the throne<hr></blockquote>

Hmmm mixed. Possibly, the return and rise of the G3! LOL (Quake *three* was codenamed Trinity in the technology demo stages). Trinity is however often associated with the future, and thus the G5 being the future.

Its little brother shall rule in the great desert<hr></blockquote>
The G4's little brother (new LCD - SMALL - iMac) shall rule, based on the shara chip (desert). And as the G5 is the "Gold fish", a gold fish can hardly survive in the desert :)

where the dolphins roam.
Reference to the nintendo gamecube aka dolphin (its codename some time ago). Possibly the iMac will rule amounst family buyers who are the key market of the gamecube? and now the new imac?

[mackie9]

Mackie9 Translation:
The "current case's" "tragic flaw" shall lead to the "cubes" return and its rise to the "top" or "high-end",
The iMac shall rule with the G3 sahara along with the likes of the game cube"

that's my guess anyway... seems to me that he's saying that apple will be replacing the towers with a cube-like case and the imac will have the sahara g3.

[DaveGee]

Lemme try...

"A little bird told that Trinity shall return, after eating pie, more voluminous than a dolphin..."

"El Capitan's hamartia shall lead to Trinity's return and its rise to the throne, Its little brother shall rule in the great desert where the dolphins roam."

"A little bird told me the cube shall return, after eating pie, larger than a game cube?" :confused:

"The G4 case tragic flaw shall lead to the cubes return and its rise to the throne, Its little brother (regular cube) shall rule in the great desert (sahara = G3) where the dolphins roam (same as the Game Cube)." :confused:

A new larger cubeish style case for the Pro line (G4) and a regular cube for the iMac (G3/Sahara)

Okay codename how's that?

Dave

[ 12-18-2001: Message edited by: DaveGee ]</p>

[Codename]

<a href="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/9905/internal-projects.shtml" target="_blank">Dolphin is not dead.</a>

[DaveGee]

[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
<strong><a href="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/9905/internal-projects.shtml" target="_blank">Dolphin is not dead.</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

Hrumph... A water resistant laptop?!?! Well first I've found no other site other than Apple Insider that speaks of it and second, I'm not sure I get the point... Water resistant isn't the same as Waterproof and well.. err... even if it did I'm still not sure I'm getting the point...

The Apple Dolphin... you can even use it in the bathtub or while doing laps in the pool and in the case of an airline water landing you can even use your Dolphin as a flotation device. :D

Sounds as useful as nail clippers for fish. :rolleyes:

Dave

[KidRed]

Why can't simply mean don't worry about spilling a coke on it or carrying it in the rain? Yuo people think too much into something and then ridicule it when you can't understand it.

Relax and enjoy the 007 spy code game. This is fun :)

[DaveGee]

[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
<strong><a href="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/9905/internal-projects.shtml" target="_blank">Dolphin is not dead.</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

Codename...

"A little bird told that Trinity shall return, after eating pie, more voluminous than a dolphin..."

"El Capitan's hamartia shall lead to Trinity's return and its rise to the throne, Its little brother shall rule in the great desert where the dolphins roam."

Could "El Capitan" as used above mean a PERSON (Say Steve Jobs) instead of a CASE (BW G3 and G4 tower case)?

If so then this makes even more sence:

"Steve Jobs tragic flaw shall lead to the cubes return and its rise to the throne..."

I still don't get the PIE reference... could you provide just a little help?

Dave

[KidRed]

Well, if El Capitan is the case, then what is a (the) major flaw with the case? The size? The expandability? Lack of microphone? Little stupid speaker? What flaw could lead to a new cube? Why is this flaw important enough to reincarnate the mega disaster known as the cube?

[Notar]

hmm, dolphin.
Does 'portable' mean a notebook or just easy-to-move, like a cube?

just an idea

[Al02]

Return of Trinity (cube) and a new (smaller? - "little brother") cube-based games console, which is "more powerful than a [game cube]", thus enabling it to 'rule in the great desert (the console market) where the dolphins (game cubes) roam"

Which could help explain the whole Raycer thing.

NB. I don't think this guy has inside info, and I don't think this will happen (a second cube failure would be terrible), but these riddles are fun all the same. :cool:

[G-News]

How about Trinity being the case of the Beige G3?
(Tri = three, Trinity = a unit of three, as in God which is 3 characters in one).
You could basically say it's the return of a case with 3 bays, with 3 CPUs, with G3 CPUs, or the return of Mac OS 3. Let's face it, january 7 will tell, noone else will.

G-News

[mackie9]

I don't care if codename has sources or not... figuring out his riddles is fun... any more clues codename?

[the Belgian waffle]

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>Well, if El Capitan is the case, then what is a (the) major flaw with the case? The size? The expandability? Lack of microphone? Little stupid speaker? What flaw could lead to a new cube? Why is this flaw important enough to reincarnate the mega disaster known as the cube?</strong><hr></blockquote>

The drive bays? My guess is the new case will have two 5inch drive bays....?!?

[ellen's boy toy]

Hey, I think this riddle has some amazing possibilities. Apple could be readying some kind of box that runs OSX but also runs (more) games through some sort of extra hardware.
Could "pie" be a reference to Precision Insight? (PI) They do software for 3D hardware acceleration and one of their clients is ATI!!

just a thought . . .

[Kate]

For me this translates to:

A big cube like enclosure for the top Power Macs. <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

A smaller cube like enclosure for the new iMac. :confused:

Only the form factor of the enclosure, not necessarily a new Cube, as the Cube sufferend heavy from the same disease as the El Capitan enclosure: low expandability.

A big cube like box for the PowerMac seems reasonable, because it offers a possible small form factor, while still providing a suitable space for expandability and enough thermal stability to swap in a new mobo with more power dissipating cpus.

A small cube like box for the new iMac seems a bit off the track, because it leaves the all-in-one idea since there's hardly a way to put a TFT display on a cube. But maybe Apple does so?A tiny cube like iMac with a stand alone TFT? If they can make an iMac with TFT competitive on the gamers market sounds doubtful at least however.

A new rugged quicksilver cube, trimmed with a design along those lines like the PowerBook?
With plenty of space for extra drives and PCI cards? Something that resembles the NeXT Cube in a way? Wouldn't be too shabby I think. <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[DaveGee]

[quote]Originally posted by rollerdexter:
<strong>Hey, I think this riddle has some amazing possibilities. Apple could be readying some kind of box that runs OSX but also runs (more) games through some sort of extra hardware.
Could "pie" be a reference to Precision Insight? (PI) They do software for 3D hardware acceleration and one of their clients is ATI!!

just a thought . . .</strong><hr></blockquote>

Codename has already told us that "Dolphin" isn't the Nintendo Game Cube but instead a pretty old '99'? Rumored laptop that would have succeed the 1st iBook (rumored to be water resistant?).

Dave

[Alexander]

Wait, why does Trinity = Cube?

[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
<strong>Its little brother shall rule in the great desert where the dolphins roam.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Little brother does seem to be the new iMac...

According to the old AI article above, Dolphin was a mysterious portable project. The rumors at the time (2.5 years ago) was that it was waterproof, but things obviously change in 2.5 years. I'll assume that, even if true, it's not the major selling point. :)

So...what if Dolphin is a PDA/Webpad/Knowledge Navigator? Or a wearable (which might explain its need to be water resistant)?

So the iMac rules in the great desert (haven't figured that part out yet) where the Apple PDAs/Webpads/wearables roam.

Makes sense...but what of the desert?

Or maybe we forget that these riddles don't make sense until the events happen. :)

Alex

[havanas]

The "tragic flaw" of the current tower cases is quite evident. Don't think, listen. Big honking fans.... If only they had released G4 class cube, I wouldn't have ringing in my ears as a fall off to sleep at night.

[Little Newton]

I agree about the fans and re: PIE

"we started the magazine PIE Developers in the
fall of 1993 right after Apple’s Newton announcement. It was a technical magazine for Newton developers. The acronym PIE came from Apple’s Newton group, the Personal Interactive Electronics (PIE) division." :eek:

[mackie9]

just some urls to back up the codenames so that we are all on the same page here:

Dolphin: some kind of speculative portable from apple
<a href="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/9905/internal-projects.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/9905/internal-projects.shtml</a>

Trinity: was the codename for the cube.
<a href="http://www.apple-history.com/g4cube.html" target="_blank">http://www.apple-history.com/g4cube.html</a>

El Capitan: The current case design... named when it went from beige to blue & white
<a href="http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/9809/el-capitan-design.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/9809/el-capitan-design.shtml</a>

Pie: see previous post


I find the dolphin link very interesting... it speaks of a portable... combined with the phrase "where dolphins roam" i think codename is hinting at some sort iMac that is more portable than it is now... which reminds me of this link

<a href="http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/presspaq/052101/visioneering.html" target="_blank">http://www.compaq.com/newsroom/presspaq/052101/visioneering.html</a>

maybe a portable/desktop unit that lacks a battery or something to keep it from competeing with the iBook... but has also some hand writing functionality... arghhhh... i should be working right now... not figuring out riddles!!!

[DaveGee]

[quote]Originally posted by Little Newton:
<strong>I agree about the fans and re: PIE

"we started the magazine PIE Developers in the
fall of 1993 right after Apple’s Newton announcement. It was a technical magazine for Newton developers. The acronym PIE came from Apple’s Newton group, the Personal Interactive Electronics (PIE) division." :eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Nice call Little Newton! I do remember PIE now... Damn the mind IS the second thing to go! :D Hmmm do you think PIE is now the group heading up the iPOD development? That would sure be interesting!

Dave

[Willoughby]

Great, this is getting TOO exciting.

So far we've got water proof laptops, towers that will be the most expandable that Apple has ever released, and silent. iMacs that are thin, portable, look like the cube and seem to have attachable monitors, and the return of the Newton. Could all of our dreams come true at one MacWorld!?

heh, the ironic part is...if all of this did happen, someone would come here after the keynote and start a new thread:

"My problem with Apple's new &lt;insert name here&gt;"
or
"I can't believe they didn't include &lt; blank &gt;"
and of course:
"That price is crazy!!!"

[Codename]

The filling shall reveal a crust made from the Rosetta Stone.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Codename ]</p>

[mackie9]

following is a quote from

<a href="http://www.macedition.com/nmr/nmr_20000717.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.macedition.com/nmr/nmr_20000717.shtml</a>

Writing’s on the wall

Speaking of fine print, the Blade’s ropy-muscled field team of Egyptologists has been doing some serious spade work on a top-secret project hitherto sealed securely behind a hidden trap door in Apple’s sub-basement.

Dubbed Rosetta Stone (apparently in homage to the Blade’s former nom de drag queen), the software – currently in development for Mac OS X – is aimed at resurrecting the mummified remains of the handwriting-recognition technology behind Apple’s long-dead Newton PDA and putting it to work on forthcoming Mac lap- and desktops.

While the effort remains a work in progress – albeit a fairly well-formed one – some pie-eyed optimists are already hoping that the advent of Rosetta Stone will ultimately do to the keyboard what the iMac did to the old-school floppy disk.

According to the Blade’s jackal-headed informants, the first candidate for Rosetta Stone is the next-generation PowerBook Apple is planning to release early in 2001; if current plans hold, the system’s trackpad will accommodate pen input as well as the usual repertoire of five-finger exercises.

check this out too
<a href="http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2607921,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2607921,00.html</a>

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: mackie9 ]</p>

[iconmaster]

"The new iMac. Keyboard not included."

What a way to make the iMac special again! I can see the Windows users: "But, but, but... how will I control-alt-delete?"

Of course, this "iPad" concept has been a staple of Apple rumormongering for some time. But it would make sense of all the buzz Apple is generating for the keynote: "innovative, revolutionary, and different" and "powerful, user-friendly, and eye-catching." (They forgot "positive, meaningful and generally happy-making," but who's counting?)

[Gamblor]

[quote]Dubbed Rosetta Stone (apparently in homage to the Blade’s former nom de drag queen), the software – currently in development for Mac OS X – is aimed at resurrecting the mummified remains of the handwriting-recognition technology behind Apple’s long-dead Newton PDA and putting it to work on forthcoming Mac lap- and desktops.
<hr></blockquote>

Uh, the code in the Newton OS for handwriting recognition was called Rosetta. It seems somebody got their rumor mixed up.

[quote]
According to the Blade’s jackal-headed informants, the first candidate for Rosetta Stone is the next-generation PowerBook Apple is planning to release early in 2001; if current plans hold, the system’s trackpad will accommodate pen input as well as the usual repertoire of five-finger exercises.
<hr></blockquote>

If this rumor is true, and on the off chance that anybody from Apple is reading this, I've got one thing to say-- PLEASE DEAR GOD DON'T DO THIS. You'll be copying the worst user interface element from the Palm-- the bastard user input pad on the bottom of the screen. The Newton got this one right-- a computer that can recognize hand writing should have a touch/pen sensitive screen. Please don't send pen input to the purgatory of a trackpad... Do it right!

[kcar27]

_______________________
[quote]Originally posted by 4fx:
<strong>Speculating about a G5 is fun and all...
but people, take a chill pill!

Why do you all care so much?
If Dorsal M or any other is correct what difference does it make to you? Are you going to buy one BEFORE Steve anounces it? ...

What will happen, will happen.</strong><hr></blockquote>
________________________

Exactly. I think there are two things that those of us outside of 1 Infinity Loop can do to keep MWSF speculation in perspective:

1. Examine the economics of the various hardware scenarios floating out there. This might be harder to do now than in the past, because there are news stories about the Apollo G4 and the G5. A lot of the speculation on this board centers around the CPU options.

I have no real knowledge of Motorola's chip operations, but I think common sense forces everyone to ask how Moto could make money off the Apollo G4 from Apple if Apple chooses to jump immediately to the G5. Another question to ask, although seems to be in opposition to the first question, is: when would Apple sell a G5-based machine if not in January? Wouldn't selling them in the spring be a bit early, cutting into G4 sales?

2. Look at past hardware trends from Apple and Moto. Granted, the G4 Mhz fiasco skews things, but I have the hunch based on following Apple's hardware offerings for almost ten years that Macs will always be roughly equivalent to Wintel boxes in real world performance. Sometimes the balance tips in Apple's favor--witness the first days of the G4 when Apple claimed its boxes could perform tasks at 2z the speed of a Wintel box. Sometimes the balance tips in favor of Wintel.

I know we all want revolutionary performance, but CPU and hardware advances take time and cost a lot of money. I have high hopes for MWSF--esp. because the last tower offerings were well short of most folks' expectations--but my guess is that a true G5 in January is premature.

Perhaps Apple will prove me wrong and sell G4 LCD imacs as well G5 towers. I *would* like to see a tower that's powerful enough to run Windows XP via VPC 5 at better than acceptable speeds. As far as I an tell, emulation on the Mac is the ultimate need for speed, even though many of us would rather not admit it.

Hey, so we'll all cross our legs for a month or so and fidget like we did as kids on Christmas morning. But isn't this a lot more fun than the dark days of '97? :rolleyes:

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: kcar27 ]</p>

[DaveGee]

[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
<strong>The filling shall reveal a crust made from the Rosetta Stone.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Okay... so we sure seem to be talking about a tablet type system... Dolphin a water resistant portable replacement (how better to make it water resistant than remove the keyboard) how do you remove the keyboard?!?! With the aid of Rosetta Stone, thats how.

Maybe all that talk pre-MWNY about tablets wasn't total nonsence after all. Apple just needed to get all of it's ducks in a row... OS X 10.1 being the 'major duck' and then add the finishing touches to rosetta stone... In that time LCD's have continued to drop in price ( a good thing for both Apple and US).

Dave

[Willoughby]

[quote]Originally posted by Codename:
<strong>The filling shall reveal a crust made from the Rosetta Stone.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: Codename ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Speaking of filling....I think I need to change my underwear.
:eek:

Good God, could this "dolphin" (i.e. portable) be a Tablet?!?!?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the "revolutionary, and totally different" consumer product from Apple will be a Tablet with handwriting recognition and running OS X (full not some light version).

They're not gonna ditch the Keyboard on the iMac. I sware if they do, I will eat my hat and send the iMovie to all of you :p

Oh man, a new portable with Newtonie goodness. Ahhhhh I'm getting my hopes up too high again, someone knock me down.

[chromos]

Right, the keyboard would be the first thing to go in order to make a computer water-resistant, but I can't imagine totally doing away with keyboard input. Makes more sense to detach the monitor and be able to roam around with that, with HWR.

Are my dreams about to be answered? :)

[Edit: 4 replies all at once, all saying the same thing. Convergence!!! ;) ]

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: chromos ]</p>

[DaveGee]

[quote]Originally posted by chromos:
<strong>4 replies all at once, all saying the same thing. Convergence!!! ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeppers! Come-on Stevie boy we are ready for it... Oh and here is something worth re-reading... Codename is this (see below) on the right track?

Found on dejanews and written by Shane Anderson ( I think)
------------
I have been sitting on a bunch of info for over a year now, and as bits and pieces of it have come to light over the last few months, I think it is time to tell you a little of what I know.

I will firstly state that this must be considered only a rumor. I have no pictures. Most of the info I have is publicly available, it just isn't strung together in any coherent way that paints the big picture. No NDAs have been broken in getting this information.

Again, treat as rumor, take it with a pinch of salt. If you go buy Apple shares because I what I am about to say, you're a bl**dy idiot.

Rumor sites, if you use this, ATTRIBUTE THE STORY!!!

Apple is readying a new product that will fill the empty square, and in some way will replace the Newton MessagePad.

What I "know" about the device so far:

It is very similar to the iBook, and I even thought it may have been what I had been waiting for, but not quite. It does not have a keyboard attached, but uses a stylus for 'pen computing' like Newton. I have heard nothing of there being a keyboard for it, but it does have a USB port so you could easily attach one.

It has two USB, one FireWire. As far as I can tell it has no modem. I thought this odd, but it does have a Ethernet port. The screen is exactly the same size as the new iBook, screen resolution 1024x768, and all.

I have no idea of the weight, but it will be tremendously light. Think less than 3 pounds without doubt, maybe closer to 2 pounds. The screens sensitivity is very cool. You can gently glide the pen over the screens surface and your cursor will move with it, but you will not generate a click until you press down with the pen. The dock animation works really well in this regard.

Yes, it runs MacOS X. No, it does not run Classic.

One of the best features of this new device, is the built in ability to screen share to another MacOS X Server or Client. When used in this regard, even over the built in AirPort, you can not tell that you are running anything remotely. In other words, screen-share a 733MHz G4, and it will suddenly feel like your tablet has a 733MHz G4 in it.

You are able to screen-share over the internet too, and even then, it is still incredibly fast. How do you connect to the net without a modem? Who knows... I'm just telling you to the best of my knowledge.

An AirPort Card is not needed, it is built in.

Hand writing recognition is indeed built in, but it seem that in marketing the product Apple will be telling no one about this feature. Again, I have NO idea why!

Battery life was at 8 hours, but the goal is 10.

Processor, I don't know. I can only presume it is a G3. My best guess here would be a G3 500Mhz that steps down to a much lower speed to conserve power when full speed is not required. The fact that know one knows the processor though, leads me to ponder if it runs on a G3 or G4 at all. I don't see any other chip being feasible though.

I don't know the thickness, but one of the prototypes was VERY thick, too thick to have been the serious end product thickness. I will guess again that it will be much less than 1 inch thick.

It has no media bays. Initial prototypes did not have a removable battery, but this has been changed for some reason.

BlueTooth, well, I just plain don't know about that either. I doubt it, but it would be nice.

A PC card slot. This is what told me that this was not the new iBook. A PC card slot is an absolute necessity for this product for connecting to wireless net ISP.

I have no idea about RAM or HD size. I will guess again and say it will have 128MB soldered to the board and one slot free like the iBook, with a 10G Drive.

Durability is a major deal here. Dropping the tablet will not cause much harm to the device unless the screen itself is impacted.

Yes people have seen this new device, and working, and the response has been flat out disbelief when shown the screen sharing.

Well there you go. I truly hope this product becomes reality.

Please don't go emailing me asking if it has xyz feature. If I didn't say here, then I honestly don't know. Sorry.

If you know something I don't, let me know.

Regards,

Shane Anderson The Mac EvangeList List Dad
------------

Dave

[mackie9]

codename.... are we on the right track here???

[sobelizzard]

I am totally hooked on this riddle game. i really don't care if its true.. but its something that will definitely get us through to Jan 7th and add a little excitement along the way...

About this whole dolphin thing... i have LONG wondered why the hell <a href="http://www.mammals.org" target="_blank">www.mammals.org</a> points to the apple webpage... we all know dolphins are mammals. could apple be maybe aiming at a type of evolution in computing spin on all of this?
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[AaronS]

That domain name has been registered to Apple for almost as long as this Dolphin rumor has been posted at AI I believe.

_aarons

[sockboy]

I heard that the reason that apple had registered mammals.org was due to a future advertising campaign in which apple would portray macs as mammals and PCs as dinosaurs - going extinct.

Along the lines of this tablet mac - why would it need a keyboard as we know it today? Couldn't the keyboard layout just be printed onto the tablet/trackpad so that you would type on the pad?

Please go easy if I am stating the obvious, this is my first post - long time reader though.

[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: sockboy ]</p>