How's afghanistan doing? [Archive]

segovius

06-11-2005, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
It just occurred to me that I haven't really heard much about post-taliban afghanistan, so what's the latest?

Mass desertions (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4078118.stm) from the Afghan Army are occurring on a daily basis - apparently the Taleban are back on the throne and rising in support once more.

The US troops are suffering sporadic casualties too but this remains unreported in the main. Two soldiers died two days ago in a Taleban attack on a US base and Taleban forces are routinely successfully targeting oil convoys and supply lines - the latest attack yesterday resulted in the deaths of the Pakistani drivers.

Opium is up again as we know so that's just business s usual but women's rights continue to deteriorate and the situation spirals deeper into a chaos that is analgous to Iraq by the day.

segovius

06-11-2005, 09:51 AM

Oh and a rash of kidnappings (which are becoming the new big business of the criminal gangs that are running rampant and unchecked there now) is sweeping the country.

In the latest case it seems that a deal was done (yet again) behind the scenes in the last few days for another Italian hostage who has just been released.

segovius

06-13-2005, 03:12 AM

more..... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4086588.stm)

segovius

06-15-2005, 07:20 AM

Even more.... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4094992.stm)

Taleban are so confident and resurgent now they are even mocking the coalition with TV interviews.

The one linked is from interview with Taleban commander detailing how Osama is still alive and Mullah Omar is still in control of Taleban units and directing operations....

groverat

06-15-2005, 07:31 AM

So basically what you're telling me is that freedom is on the march and the war in Iraq didn't at all distract from our glorious freedom party in Afghanistan? Wonderful

New

06-15-2005, 07:56 AM

Actually things arn't only bad. Many Nato countries are still involved under joint nato supervision, and I believe some positive progress is actually being made, on health, rights and education. Especially In the former non-taleban areas and Kabul.

BigMcLargehuge

06-15-2005, 08:36 AM

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
It just occurred to me that I haven't really heard much about post-taliban afghanistan, so what's the latest?

And there are fears of a widening Cholera epidemic in the capital city of Kabul.

Moe_in_Texas

06-15-2005, 06:29 PM

Should we resume bombing?

New

06-15-2005, 08:03 PM

Originally posted by Moe_in_Texas
Should we resume bombing?

there is nothing to resume. It's been ongoing for years...

NaplesX

06-17-2005, 01:20 AM

It seems you overlooked some important sentences in the articles you quote:

"Correspondents say that suicide attacks are unusual in Afghanistan.

The few that are carried out are believed to be the work of groups linked to al-Qaeda or other foreign militants accused by the government of trying to derail parliamentary elections due in September."

----

"Officials say another reason for men going absent is the difficulty they experience in dealing with their pay.

Soldiers are paid around $75 a month - a good wage in Afghanistan - but the absence of a banking system prevents them from sending money to their families."

And you come to some mighty solid conclusions based on an interview with a fanatic with nothing left to lose and everything to gain from a propaganda laden interview.

Gene Clean

06-17-2005, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by NaplesX
It seems you overlooked some important sentences in the articles you quote:

"Correspondents say that suicide attacks are unusual in Afghanistan.

It's gotta be paradise living there now..

segovius

06-17-2005, 09:36 AM

Nothing to see here, move along.... (http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=48970)

Afghanistan has been held out as a success story in contrast to Iraq's persistent violence, but victory remains far from certain. After a winter lull, Afghanistan has been just as dangerous for U.S. troops: Pentagon figures show that since early March, American deaths in Afghanistan are 1.6 per 1000 troops deployed, compared to 0.9 per 1,000 in Iraq over the same period. "It's not supposed to be like that here," said Capt. Mike Adamski, quoted in a June 4 New York Times article after a firefight with the Taliban in May. "It's the hardest fight I saw, even after Iraq."

Let's highlight the relevant bi in case anyone overlooks it (surely not):

since early March, American deaths in Afghanistan are 1.6 per 1000 troops deployed, compared to 0.9 per 1,000 in Iraq over the same period.

NaplesX

06-17-2005, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by segovius
Nothing to see here, move along.... (http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=48970)

Let's highlight the relevant bi in case anyone overlooks it (surely not):

since early March, American deaths in Afghanistan are 1.6 per 1000 troops deployed, compared to 0.9 per 1,000 in Iraq over the same period. And lest you ignore:

"Three suicide bombings and a rash of Iraq-style assassinations and kidnappings do not themselves constitute a trend."

Oh yeah and another interesting note on iraq:

"In Iraq, the rise in suicide tactics correlates with the influx of foreign jihadists, who used these tactics in Chechnya and the Palestinian territories. (According to the Pentagon, foreign jihadists, comprise only ten percent of insurgents in Iraq but account for nearly all the suicide bombs targeting Iraqi civilians.)"

Foreign Jihadists... where have I heard that before and who says that's not the case?

Hmmm, I just don't remember who it was....

Wrong Robot

06-17-2005, 01:13 PM

I don't care to compare Afghanistan to Iraq, I was just curious about how afghanistan is doing on its own. Doesn't seem to be doing to hot, is that not the case? the fact that suicide bombings might be less prevalent in afghanistan than iraq is irrelevant.

NaplesX

06-17-2005, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
I don't care to compare Afghanistan to Iraq, I was just curious about how afghanistan is doing on its own. Doesn't seem to be doing to hot, is that not the case? the fact that suicide bombings might be less prevalent in afghanistan than iraq is irrelevant. Fair enough. But just the fact that you are hearing very little out of Afghanistan from the "all bad news, all the time" news outlets should tell you something.

Granted it is not as stable as say the US or Australia, but I am sure that's not what you're comparing it to - considering it is a 3rd world country trying to move to 1st world stability. It has come a long way in the mere 4 year span that we are talking about.

I am sure you find the postings as humorous as I do. First, sego practically claims the sky is falling in Afghanistan, and then when I point out that his 2 month measuring stick is off, Gene Clean remarks as if I'm claiming it's nirvana there.

Anything but balance and truth, I guess.

IT'S ALL GEORGE W. BUSH'S FAULT.

Wrong Robot

06-17-2005, 02:14 PM

Well how about some more information instead of irrelevant banter pertaining to the factualness of information stated thus far?

NaplesX

06-17-2005, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Wrong Robot
Well how about some more information instead of irrelevant banter pertaining to the factualness of information stated thus far? You want information, here it is:

http://www.afghannews.net/ this is full of Afghan-centric news. You can't go wrong here.

This article highlights the rapid growth of the economy there, that is nothing but good news for them.
http://www.afghannews.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=2217

"a democratically elected president, free media, progressive businesses, investment and civil laws plus a viable banking industry, all of which in turn have assisted in the development of a thriving private sector."

To quote another economic story read there.

They have there problem but they have many successes to fall back on there.

segovius

06-18-2005, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by NaplesX
You want information, here it is:

http://www.afghannews.net/ this is full of Afghan-centric news. You can't go wrong here.

Can't go wrong.

First page at random:

KABUL - Suspected Taleban rebels have captured at least 10 Afghan police in an ambush in southern Afghanistan, officials say.

KABUL -Al Qaeda's deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahri called for an armed struggle to expel "crusader forces and Jews" from Muslim states and said peaceful change was impossible, in a video tape aired by Al Jazeera on Friday.

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) - Taliban guerrillas attacked an Afghan district capital for a second straight night and took 18 policemen prisoner, a day after detaining more than a dozen people, police said on Saturday.

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - Afghan defense minister says al-Qaida regrouping, planning Iraq-style attacks. Al-Qaida has ferried about half a dozen Arab agents into Afghanistan in the past three weeks, two of whom detonated themselves in suicide bombings in the south targeting a packed mosque and a convoy of U.S. troops, Afghanistan's defense minister said Friday.

KABUL (AFP) - Twenty dead in Afghan floods. Severe flooding caused by storms and torrential rains in northern Afghanistan has left around 20 people dead and has washed away more than 700 homes, a provincial governor said on Friday.

Kabul (Financial Times) - Wet weather set to boost Afghan opium output. US and Afghan officials do not expect Afghan opium production to fall this year, despite an intensifying battle against the drug industry that is set to cost the US hundreds of millions of dollars.

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) - Taliban say hold 13 Afghans in troubled south. The Taliban said they had captured 11 Afghan soldiers, a senior police officer and a district chief in Kandahar, just days after U.S.-led and Afghan forces staged a joint operation there against the guerrillas.

Can't go wrong.....??????? Wtf ??????

This is what you call good news ??? I know you are rooting for Muslims in the region to be bombed, killed and maimed but isn't this going a bit far ?

:no:

NaplesX

06-18-2005, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by segovius
Can't go wrong.

First page at random:

KABUL - Suspected Taleban rebels have captured at least 10 Afghan police in an ambush in southern Afghanistan, officials say.

KABUL -Al Qaeda's deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahri called for an armed struggle to expel "crusader forces and Jews" from Muslim states and said peaceful change was impossible, in a video tape aired by Al Jazeera on Friday.

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) - Taliban guerrillas attacked an Afghan district capital for a second straight night and took 18 policemen prisoner, a day after detaining more than a dozen people, police said on Saturday.

KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - Afghan defense minister says al-Qaida regrouping, planning Iraq-style attacks. Al-Qaida has ferried about half a dozen Arab agents into Afghanistan in the past three weeks, two of whom detonated themselves in suicide bombings in the south targeting a packed mosque and a convoy of U.S. troops, Afghanistan's defense minister said Friday.

KABUL (AFP) - Twenty dead in Afghan floods. Severe flooding caused by storms and torrential rains in northern Afghanistan has left around 20 people dead and has washed away more than 700 homes, a provincial governor said on Friday.

Kabul (Financial Times) - Wet weather set to boost Afghan opium output. US and Afghan officials do not expect Afghan opium production to fall this year, despite an intensifying battle against the drug industry that is set to cost the US hundreds of millions of dollars.

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (Reuters) - Taliban say hold 13 Afghans in troubled south. The Taliban said they had captured 11 Afghan soldiers, a senior police officer and a district chief in Kandahar, just days after U.S.-led and Afghan forces staged a joint operation there against the guerrillas.

Can't go wrong.....??????? Wtf ??????

This is what you call good news ??? I know you are rooting for Muslims in the region to be bombed, killed and maimed but isn't this going a bit far ?

:no: That site is full of positive info about Afghanistan - If you want to see it. You are a far left conspiracy lover, so there's no way to ask you to see anything positive.

I see plenty of positives, but it's just about vantage point.

segovius

06-18-2005, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by NaplesX
I see plenty of positives, but it's just about vantage point.

Yes, for once we agree.

I want real freedom for the people of the middle east (not your ersatz BS brand) - you want them under US hegemony or dead.

NaplesX

06-18-2005, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by segovius
Yes, for once we agree. Not really. Here have a look...

Originally posted by segovius
I want real freedom for the people of the middle east (not your ersatz BS brand) - you want them under US hegemony or dead. Nope. Here's the humorous thing, if you can't even correctly and honestly interpret what I (a political simpleton, according to most here) have to say when it is in black and white, how in hell can you claim that you have the ability to do so on a national or global scale?

segovius

06-19-2005, 01:08 PM

More crazy capers (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4108108.stm) from that whacky Taleban outfit.....

NaplesX

06-19-2005, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by segovius
More crazy capers (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4108108.stm) from that whacky Taleban outfit..... So wheres your outrage at the treatment of prisoners?

hardeeharhar

06-19-2005, 01:14 PM

We are outraged, Napes... We know these people are capable of harsh tactics, they kill their own people daily... We also hold the US military to higher standards...

segovius

06-19-2005, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
We are outraged, Napes... We know these people are capable of harsh tactics, they kill their own people daily... We also hold the US military to higher standards...

This is the part of the argument I never understood actually.

The barbarism of your opponent not only justifies your own but nullifies it whilst absorbing you of any responsibility and legitimizing ever greater acts of barbarism on your own part.

I guess I'm missing something but I'm quite glad....

NaplesX

06-19-2005, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
We are outraged, Napes... We know these people are capable of harsh tactics, they kill their own people daily... We also hold the US military to higher standards... Oh... Right....

That's why we hear a overwhelming outcry for justice for the real victims here...

Oh wait, we are trying to protect these guys from our military. Our military that provides them with Korans, prayer rugs, roof, air conditioning, clean clothes and 3 warm ethnically correct meals.

hardeeharhar

06-19-2005, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by NaplesX
Oh... Right....

That's why we hear a overwhelming outcry for justice for the real victims here...

Oh wait, we are trying to protect these guys from our military. Our military that provides them with Korans, prayer rugs, roof, air conditioning, clean clothes and 3 warm ethnically correct meals.

Our military shouldn't do anything to POWs it wouldn't do to any other citizen of any other country, ours included...

NaplesX

06-19-2005, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by segovius
This is the part of the argument I never understood actually.

The barbarism of your opponent not only justifies your own but nullifies it whilst absorbing you of any responsibility and legitimizing ever greater acts of barbarism on your own part.

I guess I'm missing something but I'm quite glad.... Well that makes more sense than having the hyped brutality excuse real brutality by the enemy.

But I love the way you put it... "ever greater acts of barbarism on your own part"

That's just bloody brilliant. What was a greater act of barbarism - flushing the Koran or execution? I suppose you are going to present some evidence that the Taliban treat their hated enemy better than the US does theirs?

Perhaps we should ask the beloved women of the Taliban:

http://womensissues.about.com/library/weekly/aa102601a.htm

"Taliban militia punished for violations of these rules on the spot. Women had been beaten on the street if an inch of ankle showed under their burqa; if they were found to move about without an explanation acceptable to the Taliban; if they made noise when they walk...

Women were not the only ones abused by the Taliban. Many men suffered, were taken prisoner, killed or they disappeared for actions such as wearing a beard of insufficient length or being of a different ethnicity or political background."

These guys are just misunderstood. Really...

NaplesX

06-19-2005, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Our military shouldn't do anything to POWs it wouldn't do to any other citizen of any other country, ours included... Great. So let's release them back on the world.

Perhaps we should make terrorism legal. That might cut down on the terror. Make murder and rape and public beheadings legal also. That should cut down on that also.

hardeeharhar

06-19-2005, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by NaplesX
Great. So let's release them back on the world.

Perhaps we should make terrorism legal. That might cut down on the terror. Make murder and rape and public beheadings legal also. That should cut down on that also.

If your logic works that way, it is a good thing your are stuck behind a computer...

You have no argument whatsoever; realizing this, you begin to froth at the mouth... My advice: seek medical attention immediately...

segovius

06-19-2005, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by NaplesX
Well that makes more sense than having the hyped brutality excuse real brutality by the enemy.

But I love the way you put it... "ever greater acts of barbarism on your own part"

That's just bloody brilliant. What was a greater act of barbarism - flushing the Koran or execution? I suppose you are going to present some evidence that the Taliban treat their hated enemy better than the US does theirs?

Let's see - umm, arresting people without charge, detaining them without trial and flying them to be tortured in barbaric states like Saudi, Egypt, Syria and Uzbekistan.

Training killers to do the same in Uzbekistan....

Perhaps we should ask the beloved women of the Taliban:

http://womensissues.about.com/library/weekly/aa102601a.htm

"Taliban militia punished for violations of these rules on the spot. Women had been beaten on the street if an inch of ankle showed under their burqa; if they were found to move about without an explanation acceptable to the Taliban; if they made noise when they walk...

Women were not the only ones abused by the Taliban. Many men suffered, were taken prisoner, killed or they disappeared for actions such as wearing a beard of insufficient length or being of a different ethnicity or political background."

These guys are just misunderstood. Really...

Now you're talking my language - perhaps you should get over to the Saudi thread.

The Taleban are not strictly speaking terrorists btw. But they are Wahabis - just like our allies the Saudis and guess what ? Women are treated exactly the same there in Saudiland. Only Georgie boy doesn't seem to mind that and calls Saudi an 'emerging democracy'.

Oh well.

NaplesX

06-19-2005, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
If your logic works that way, it is a good thing your are stuck behind a computer...

You have no argument whatsoever; realizing this, you begin to froth at the mouth... My advice: seek medical attention immediately... really?

Your senator friend Double D and sego here feels the US military is comparable to Nazis. Most here are secretly cheering Double D's "courageous" words on the senate floor. This obvious by the reinvigorated nature of this argument.

But somehow in the mind of the "caring" lib, we all know that the comfort of just one terrorist is worth more than any 10 muslim women, any 100 soldiers or any 1000 of their neighbors and definitely a particular President.

Let's just pretend that this love for murderous thugs you have, actually pays off... every person currently being held is in fact innocent, at least it would seem by the vehemence of your argument.

So it would seem, if up to you, these people should be released immediately and left to their own devices. So what do you suppose they would do?

Holding 500 people in Gitmo to give Bush supporters a fuzzy feeling, makes no sense to me when, if as you say, the government is so adept at creating and hiding conspiracies, they could just as easily make up a fake camp, say they are detaining 15000 terrorists and release false intel that excuses them to wipe out anyone who might stand in the way of their insidious plan to get and control oil.

Why go through the hassle of documenting all interaction with prisoners, when they could just kill them under the guise of a "terror camp raid" or something.

I can see a thousand other ways to accomplish the stated goals that the left attributes to GWB, and I'm a political simpleton.

I saw this floating around, it about sums things up:

http://files.blog-city.com/files/aa/37597/p/f/durbina.jpg

hardeeharhar

06-19-2005, 03:54 PM

Huh?

Do we release prisoners whom we presume are innocent before they have a trial?

No. No we don't. We give them a TRIAL.

Napes, actually Nips is preferable, what the hell are you smoking?

NaplesX

06-19-2005, 05:13 PM

Perhaps, the upswing in violence has to do with released prisoners returning to Afghanistan:

http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-10/18/content_383191.htm

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040705-080713-4578r.htm

There is a new list out that shows some more evidence that they returned to fighting the US upon release.

But hey, it seems logical that we should not hold these guys until the areas are secured and peaceful. :rolleyes:

hardeeharhar

06-19-2005, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by NaplesX
Perhaps, the upswing in violence has to do with released prisoners returning to Afghanistan:

http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-10/18/content_383191.htm

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040705-080713-4578r.htm

There is a new list out that shows some more evidence that they returned to fighting the US upon release.

But hey, it seems logical that we should not hold these guys until the areas are secured and peaceful. :rolleyes:

Why don't we just arrest everyone and concentrate them into camps in the region? That will increase our chances of establishing the peace that much more quickly.