What Bush should have said

[steve666]

As usual, talking through both sides of his mouth.
Who does this clown think he's fooling?
An amnesty is an amnesty, no matter how you spin it. And what this will do is increase pressure on the border, no matter what we throw in their way.

What he should have said:
I am the President of the United States, a sovereign nation of laws, and even though we are a nation of immigrants they must abide by our laws to enter this country. It is an affront to everyone who entered legally and those waiting patiently to enter legally to legitimize those who cut in line before them.
Therefore, I am giving all illegal immigrants currently residing in the United States 90 days to leave the country without penalty. Those who remain and are caught and detained by Homeland Security will not be allowed to apply legally to immigrate to this country.
After this 90 day period, we will be conducting sweeps of all day laborers in conjunction with local law enforcement and all will be immediately deported and fingerprinted. Businesses will be randomly searched for employment of illegal aliens and if any are found there will be a $100,000 fine per illegal and the president of the business will be jailed for a period of no less than a year.
All illegals currently in our prison system (25% of all federal Prisoners are illegal aliens), will be immediately deported to their home countries.
Our legal immigration number will be reduced to 350,000 per year to reduce population overgrowth and stabilize our population at around 300 million people. Chain immigration will no longer be allowed. There will be a percentage of legal immigration geared towards those with needed skills in the sciences, medical profession, etc.
The border will be secured with a double wall and an increase in border agents by 5,000 agents.
I will also introduce legislation declaring English to be the official language of the United States. We are a nation made up of hundreds of different nationalities and ethnicities. A common language is one of the most important things that binds us together as one nation. As Teddy Roosevelt once said:

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant
who comes here in good faith, becomes an American and assimilates himself
to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else for it
is an outrage to discriminate against any such man be cause of creed, or
birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming
in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...

There can be no
divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something
else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the
American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the
English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a
loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

It is with this sense of a common goal to live free and succeed in a fair and honorable society that I bring these proposals to the American people. No longer can we tolerate the legitimization of rampant illegality that is undermining our storied immigration system. The war against terror also demands that our borders be secure. Although I can understand what has driven these illegal immigrants to endure hardship and danger in order to enter this country for work to provide for their children, it is more important to remember that there are Americans who also need to provide for their children, and legal immigrants who entered this country through the proper legal channels and their needs must come first.
To those illegal immigrants who must now go home and I say to them to show the same passion they showed during street protests here in the US and take to the streets in Mexico and Central America to show the Governments in their own countries that they want to be given the chance to work for a decent wage and to be able to educate their children so that they may have a better life and the chance to increase their countries economic and living conditions.
The United States remains committed to immigration as the greatest asset we have in ensuring the economic vitality of this country far into the future, and that which sustains us, enhances our culture, and brings bright minds and fertile imaginations into our society to keep it fresh and innovative.
All we ask, and now demand, is that those who choose to immigrate to this great country do so the right way, legally.
Good night.

[Bergermeister]

:err:

[southside grabowski]

We need civilian militias on the border if we are going to stop the illegal flow. Government has become worthless on this matter.

[Bergermeister]

Interesting the point about keeping the minds fresh and innovative... it's almost as if the longer you are in the States the older and less innovative your mind becomes.

Hmmmm.

[MarcUK]

Originally posted by steve666
[B
The border will be secured with a double wall and an increase in border agents by 5,000 agents.
Good night. [/B]

A grand idea, if only to stop your kind of nutjobs getting out.

[sammi jo]

Is "illegal" a relative or absolute term?

[southside grabowski]

Absolute in this case. Those who cross the border without following the proper procedure are in this country illegally. Perhaps they could even be considered invading enemies. The people must stand up. The answer is armed, civilian militias working the borders.

[MarcUK]

Originally posted by southside grabowski
... Perhaps they could even be considered invading enemies. The people must stand up. The answer is armed, civilian militias working the borders.

How do you expect anyone to take you seriously, when you do not even take yourself seriously?

Keep it coming, you're the best laugh AO has had in ages :lol:

[sammi jo]

Originally posted by southside grabowski
Absolute in this case. Those who cross the border without following the proper procedure are in this country illegally. Perhaps they could even be considered invading enemies. The people must stand up. The answer is armed, civilian militias working the borders.

So, in which cases is "illegal" a relative term?

:???:

[southside grabowski]

We had a long discussion about the use of civilian militias on the radio yesterday (http://www.ktrh.com/pages/chrisbaker.html#)

The plan would be for retired military, retired police officers and folks with right to carry permits to work the border in an organized, responsible way.

[Gene Clean]

"...armed civilian militias..."

there's so much wisdom here, MY BRAIN CAN'T ABSORB IT.

[MarcUK]

Originally posted by southside grabowski
We had a long discussion about the use of civilian militias on the radio yesterday (http://www.ktrh.com/pages/chrisbaker.html#)

The plan would be for retired military, retired police officers and folks with right to carry permits to work the border in an organized, responsible way.

strange, it doesn't appear on the recent programmes list.

[southside grabowski]

Originally posted by MarcUK
strange, it doesn't appear on the recent programmes list.

Regardless, it was yesterday's topic.


Indeed, Americans have the right to join the unorganized militia:

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 311 Prev | Next

§ 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

[Gilsch]

This thread is comical. Comical I tell you. I'm sure a civilian millitia would work A- OK.

I mean, come on, how could you not trust these guys and the whackos at "FAIR"? (Probably one and the same)

http://angrywhitekid.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/minuteman.jpg

[midwinter]

Originally posted by southside grabowski
Perhaps they could even be considered invading enemies.

Damn straight! I'm increasingly finding that the old enemy is just too damned abstract. 9/11 is 5 years old now and I think we invaded somewhere that starts with an "A" but I forget and now the damned war in Iraq is just dragging on and on and on. I need a new enemy, and I think illegal immigrants might be it. The upshot is that they'll never stop! They just keep coming!

The people must stand up. The answer is armed, civilian militias working the borders.

Damn straight! Although I worry that the militia itself may be too much of an assault on American individualism. I say we just have scads of individuals with guns wandering around down there.

With beer.

[addabox]

Hmmm..... a racial border war, fought by cranky gun nuts, gone-to-seed bad-asses, drunk rednecks, white supremacists, straight up crazies and people who believe it's only a matter of time before the government falls and it will be up to every able bodied man to protect himself, his property and his loved ones from the ravening mud-people hords. At night. While tearing around the desert in SUVs.

Well, certainly no chance of that getting out of hand.

Maybe the people could take up a hobby, instead?

[midwinter]

Steve666 and SG/Common Man:

I had a thought last night. I think you guys and your respective organizations should really go after the small businesses that employ so many illegal immigrants...yard crews, paint crews, construction crews. Maybe start picketing them? At the very least, you could make some yardsigns saying "So-and-so company employs illegal immiggrants! Spend your money elsewhere!" (and then, of course, check up on everyone ELSE in town to make sure they're above-board). Maybe showing up to job sites with cops demanding to see proof of citizenship. Showing up with (legal, permitted) guns might not be a bad idea, either.

[steve666]

Originally posted by midwinter
Steve666 and SG/Common Man:

I had a thought last night. I think you guys and your respective organizations should really go after the small businesses that employ so many illegal immigrants...yard crews, paint crews, construction crews. Maybe start picketing them? At the very least, you could make some yardsigns saying "So-and-so company employs illegal immiggrants! Spend your money elsewhere!" (and then, of course, check up on everyone ELSE in town to make sure they're above-board). Maybe showing up to job sites with cops demanding to see proof of citizenship. Showing up with (legal, permitted) guns might not be a bad idea, either.

I have a job, that would be quite time consuming.
I would prefer the Govmnt get off its ass and do its job.

[midwinter]

Originally posted by steve666
I have a job, that would be quite time consuming.

For now...until the illegal immigrants come in and TAKE IT! You'd better get off your duff and start protecting our borders.

[steve666]

Originally posted by midwinter
For now...until the illegal immigrants come in and TAKE IT! You'd better get off your duff and start protecting our borders.

I'm a member of FAIR, I email, fax, and call politicians.
If everyone concerned about this would do the same thing alot would get accomplished.

[midwinter]

Originally posted by steve666
I'm a member of FAIR, I email, fax, and call politicians.
If everyone concerned about this would do the same thing alot would get accomplished.

Well, at the very least you could put a bumper sticker on your car.

[steve666]

Originally posted by midwinter
Well, at the very least you could put a bumper sticker on your car.

Not a bumper sticker kind of guy.

As for results, I am also a member of USEnglish, and today the Senate approved am amendment making English the Official language of the US.
Yeh, baby!

[midwinter]

Originally posted by steve666
Not a bumper sticker kind of guy.

So you're saying that you don't support the troops?

[Gene Clean]

He supports the troops by kicking out illegals. What more do you want?

[Aquatic]

I'm jumping off the deepend here and before I do let me admit I do not know anything about this topic.

Why are you liberals supporting illegal immigrants?

A. You are paying for their benefits they are recieving

B. They don't pay taxes

C. All their hard work for which they receive pennies just goes to corporations.

Why is making them pay taxes bad again? Why is stemming the tide bad again? And we learned in my climate change class that they (Mexicans) have more kids for at least a generation. Which means...environmental problems. How about Mexico fixes its own problems, and cracks down on the crack. I sound like a Jesus Juice Drinking Republican, but illegal immigrants...piss me off. They're people getting a free ride on my goddamn tax dollar. Yeah, I'm serious. If I have to pay a truckload of taxes so do they. So many people, like college students and parents busting their ass to send kids like me to college, have to pay a ton of taxes, to support Corporate America. So how 'bout we have these friggin illegal immigrants chip in?

I believe I read something about "financial penalties" and will have to research that more. But as far as it sounds, it sounds like this whole proposal is just amnesty.

[steve666]

Originally posted by Aquatic
I'm jumping off the deepend here and before I do let me admit I do not know anything about this topic.

Why are you liberals supporting illegal immigrants?

A. You are paying for their benefits they are recieving

B. They don't pay taxes

C. All their hard work for which they receive pennies just goes to corporations.

Why is making them pay taxes bad again? Why is stemming the tide bad again? And we learned in my climate change class that they (Mexicans) have more kids for at least a generation. Which means...environmental problems. How about Mexico fixes its own problems, and cracks down on the crack. I sound like a Jesus Juice Drinking Republican, but illegal immigrants...piss me off. They're people getting a free ride on my goddamn tax dollar. Yeah, I'm serious. If I have to pay a truckload of taxes so do they. So many people, like college students and parents busting their ass to send kids like me to college, have to pay a ton of taxes, to support Corporate America. So how 'bout we have these friggin illegal immigrants chip in?

I believe I read something about "financial penalties" and will have to research that more. But as far as it sounds, it sounds like this whole proposal is just amnesty.

Dude, you're making too much sense for this board.
You know what I have found which is interesting? This board seems to be majority liberal and left wing whacko (besides the few of us with common sense), while the MacNN Forums seem to have a slight majority of center-right common sense guys like me. I just find it interesting.

[hardeeharhar]

How many libs on this board think that illegal's shouldn't pay taxes?

Anyone, anyone?

How many libs on this board think that efforts shouldn't be made to fix this problem at its core where we CAN, ie charge the EMPLOYERS of illegals out the wazzo?

Anyone, anyone?

How many libs have argued anything like what steve/aquatic thinks they have?

Anyone?

[hardeeharhar]

All I hear from steve and the gang is that we first and foremost should seal our borders.

That is what we call an unthinking folly. It failed during the war on drugs, and it will continue to fail with respect to human trafficking.

We can better spend our resources by enforcing hiring laws IN the US. If there is no benefit to leaving Mexico and the 10 or so other latin american countries then people will not leave.

It would be economically advantageous for the US to have stronger trading allies in our own hemisphere anyway. So establishing stronger economic ties to Latin america will benefit us both in terms of illegal immigrants and finding new markets for american goods. In the long run it is in our interests to have strong trading partners closer to home, because unlike China, we cannot hope to have a slick technologically robust trading group should our asian allies decide to feed the beast as it were...

We either help our neighboring nations grow up (and this doesn't mean giving money -- just exchange of expertise), or we get slowed down by them...

[steve666]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
All I hear from steve and the gang is that we first and foremost should seal our borders.

That is what we call an unthinking folly. It failed during the war on drugs, and it will continue to fail with respect to human trafficking.

We can better spend our resources by enforcing hiring laws IN the US. If there is no benefit to leaving Mexico and the 10 or so other latin american countries then people will not leave.

It would be economically advantageous for the US to have stronger trading allies in our own hemisphere anyway. So establishing stronger economic ties to Latin america will benefit us both in terms of illegal immigrants and finding new markets for american goods. In the long run it is in our interests to have strong trading partners closer to home, because unlike China, we cannot hope to have a slick technologically robust trading group should our asian allies decide to feed the beast as it were...

We either help our neighboring nations grow up (and this doesn't mean giving money -- just exchange of expertise), or we get slowed down by them...

We need to do both-seal the border and go after employers.
But if you think the US can help mexico and central america be anything but third world countries you are naive. They have no public education system, no minimum wage, no birth control, no worker protections, and are all corrupt.
Our neighbors will always be poor, dumb, and overpopulated. just like the US is becoming.

[southside grabowski]

The more I read the comments of the left on immigration, the more I realize how clueless the left is.

1) Americans who want the border laws enforced are not panicky that Mexicans will take away their jobs digging ditches. Many of these Americans have much better jobs.

2) Enforcing the border is not about hating Mexicans. It is not racism. Most of us in the Southwest like Mexicans. The left has learned to shout "racism" when they have nothing else to say and in our brainwashed PC society, most people quiver at the suggestion of racism.

3) Enforcing the border IS about the order of law and finding relief for much-overburdened police, fire and EMS services. It IS about relieving a huge burden that has been put on our public schools and tax-supported hospitals. It IS about making employers and workers responsible for the welfare of workers rather than local government being responsible.


Carry on telling me "what I really meant"

[hardeeharhar]

Originally posted by steve666
We need to do both-seal the border and go after employers.
But if you think the US can help mexico and central america be anything but third world countries you are naive. They have no public education system, no minimum wage, no birth control, no worker protections, and are all corrupt.
Our neighbors will always be poor, dumb, and overpopulated. just like the US is becoming.

Heh. Vitriol -- the same is said of poles...

Edit: Not to mention that that is an outright lie. See Costa Rica, Cuba....

[steve666]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Heh. Vitriol -- the same is said of poles...

Edit: Not to mention that that is an outright lie. See Costa Rica, Cuba....

Cuba isnt a third world country? Better tell that to the folks risking their lives to flee.
Costa Rica is a tiny country without the inherent problems of their larger neighbors.

[hardeeharhar]

Originally posted by steve666
Cuba isnt a third world country? Better tell that to the folks risking their lives to flee.
Costa Rica is a tiny country without the inherent problems of their larger neighbors.

Really?

Cuba is not a third world country in any respect. At worst it is a second world nation and only because it has a communist government. Its people are highly educated, and it is government is incredibly stable. Your citation of people fleeing cuba ignores history, and the fact that the people leaving are those that supported the fascist regime before Castro. Funny that, most of central america is in shambles because the fascist regimes of the banana republics the US help to create and supported were intrinsically unstable.

Costa Rica is not only an average sized Central American country, it lacks those inherent problems because its leadership made the conscious choice to pursue an unarmed democracy.

So you are simply spouting vitriol out of your mouth with clear evidence running contrary to your central claims.

[steve666]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Really?

Cuba is not a third world country in any respect. At worst it is a second world nation and only because it has a communist government. Its people are highly educated, and it is government is incredibly stable. Your citation of people fleeing cuba ignores history, and the fact that the people leaving are those that supported the fascist regime before Castro. Funny that, most of central america is in shambles because the fascist regimes of the banana republics the US help to create and supported were intrinsically unstable.

Costa Rica is not only an average sized Central American country, it lacks those inherent problems because its leadership made the conscious choice to pursue an unarmed democracy.

So you are simply spouting vitriol out of your mouth with clear evidence running contrary to your central claims.

You are in dire need of an education in current events and history.
The first refugees to flee Cuba were the educated middle class.
The second wave was the mariel boat lift where Cuba disgarded its criminals and assorted trash and gave them to Jimmy Carter.
The third wave are those fleeing in rickety boats trying to escape the poverty and economic mess that Castro got Cuba into.

And I have never before heard a Dictatorship called a stable Govmnt. I guess you support a dictatorship as fix for all the unstable Govmnts in that region?

As for Costa Rica, it has a population of 4 million. That would be considered to be a tiny country here on Earth. Los Angeles has more people than that.

Owned, son.

[hardeeharhar]

Originally posted by steve666

Owned, son.

Child, you still are wrong. There are countries in Latin america that have working governmental systems that provide all of the things you claimed they don't. What this means for your infantile brain is that claims that they will never be able to have a functioning western existence is not only a stupid bet; it is even now wrong.

That is how you own someone, little boy.

Edit: For further pwnage. Check the CIA world fact book for the population of almost every other country in central america. Again, Costa Rica has a middling population size. LA is bigger than MOST Central American countries. Eat it.

[steve666]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Child, you still are wrong. There are countries in Latin america that have working governmental systems that provide all of the things you claimed they don't. What this means for your infantile brain is that claims that they will never be able to have a functioning western existence is not only a stupid bet; it is even now wrong.

That is how you own someone, little boy.

Edit: For further pwnage. Check the CIA world fact book for the population of almost every other country in central america. Again, Costa Rica has a middling population size. LA is bigger than MOST Central American countries. Eat it.

Name for me one latin American country, besides tiny Costa Rica, that you wouldnt mind living in? Argentina? Lovely crime rate. Brazil? Ditto. Any others? Where would you prefer to live?
I'll help you pack.

[midwinter]

Originally posted by steve666

I'll help you pack.

Dude, if you don't have enough time to go fight the illegals where at their places of work, you certainly don't have enough time to help him pack!

[steve666]

Originally posted by midwinter
Dude, if you don't have enough time to go fight the illegals where at their places of work, you certainly don't have enough time to help him pack!

I'll make the time. Some things are just that important

[midwinter]

Originally posted by steve666
I'll make the time. Some things are just that important

I'm sure you will...right in between joining anti-illegal immigrant associations, putting anti-illegal immigrant bumper-stickers on your car, and whinging on the internets.

[hardeeharhar]

Originally posted by steve666
Name for me one latin American country, besides tiny Costa Rica, that you wouldnt mind living in? Argentina? Lovely crime rate. Brazil? Ditto. Any others? Where would you prefer to live?
I'll help you pack.

Costa Rica isn't tiny, and that is the point.

I wouldn't mind living in Mexico, Brazil, Belize... You see, I have been to a lot of central america, and not the american tourist destination side either... It is a lovely place in general...

[hardeeharhar]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Costa Rica isn't tiny, and that is the point.

I wouldn't mind living in Mexico, Brazil, Belize... You see, I have been to a lot of central america, and not the american tourist destination side either... It is a lovely place in general...

So have you ever left the US, steve?

[steve666]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Costa Rica isn't tiny, and that is the point.

I wouldn't mind living in Mexico, Brazil, Belize... You see, I have been to a lot of central america, and not the american tourist destination side either... It is a lovely place in general...

Costa Rica is tiny.
Its a lovely place? Funny how so many people are trying to flee these lovely places.

[steve666]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
So have you ever left the US, steve?

I lived in LA for 6 years, does that count?

[hardeeharhar]

Originally posted by steve666
Costa Rica is tiny.

So are two parts of your anatomy apparently.

Baddumdum...

[steve666]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
So are two parts of your anatomy apparently.

Baddumdum...

Leno has nothing to worry about

[hardeeharhar]

Originally posted by steve666
Leno has nothing to worry about

Its all good...

I highly recommend traveling in Central America to get a perspective on what problems these nations face. It isn't as simple as being corrupt and uneducated...

Just a bit of friendly advice...

[steve666]

Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Its all good...

I highly recommend traveling in Central America to get a perspective on what problems these nations face. It isn't as simple as being corrupt and uneducated...

Just a bit of friendly advice...

No dinero, senior.

[Gilsch]

Originally posted by steve666
No dinero, senior. Maybe you should get off your ass and get a better job, or a second job instead of wasting other people's time promoting joke/garbage organizations like "FAIR" online.

You're spending too much time on the internets. Why not go get one of those jobs teh badd illegals have taken from you?

By the way. You lived in LA and still can't spell "señor" correctly?
Ahhh....the irony of these words..."Our neighbors will always be poor, dumb"....:D


Hardeeharhar...you sure you wanna waste your time arguing with ignorant, bigoted, uneducated tools?

[steve666]

Originally posted by Gilsch
Maybe you should get off your ass and get a better job, or a second job instead of wasting other people's time promoting joke/garbage organizations like "FAIR" online.

You're spending too much time on the internets. Why not go get one of those jobs teh badd illegals have taken from you?

By the way. You lived in LA and still can't spell "señor" correctly?
Ahhh....the irony of these words..."Our neighbors will always be poor, dumb"....:D


Hardeeharhar...you sure you wanna waste your time arguing with ignorant, bigoted, uneducated tools?

Someone got up on the wrong side of their web today