Drilling for Oil: US no, China yes

[southside grabowski]

The debate over off shore and wild life refuge drilling gets a lot of interest here in Texas where we like our SUVs and trucks. I know that expanded drilling is just a short term answer, but we need an answer in the short term in addition to a long range plan to get away from oil. It looks like we will not be able to drill in the Gulf except off the coasts of the enlightened states of Texas Louisiana and Mississippi. Problem is, Castro is working with China to suck oil out of the Gulf. Do we want well-supervised American companies drilling out there or environmentally unconcerned Chinese drilling out there? The way it looks now, the environment takes a hit and Castro and the Chinese take the oil. Not a good plan.

gateway pundit looks at the issue:

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/05/despite-oil-crisis-democrats-again.html

[trailmaster308]

Originally posted by southside grabowski
......Texas where we like our SUVs and trucks. I know that expanded drilling is just a short term answer, but we need an answer in the short term in addition to a long range plan to get away from oil.

I hear what your saying. I looked at some of the Flexful trucks that run 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. I spoke with the dealer and really liked the idea of being able to run any mixture of fuel I wanted. Problem is the nearest dealer for me is 8-9 hours away. I dont understand why they aren't building new facilities and stations for this like crazy. Just seems to me that we would get a big boom in the economy, make the greenies happy, and bring fuel costs down at the same time. Maybe I am just and idiot and don't see the big picture :\

Hmm looks as though E85 use causes your MPG to go down and price to go up. I would "think" that a larger infrastructure of E85 would bring the price of E85 down.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfueltype.htm

[addabox]

Well, "looks at the issue" is pretty charitable, don't you think?

More like "seizes on the issue to construct an ad hoc piñata of dem bashing, commie paranoia and random spittle".

Whether or not Cuba drills in its territorial waters, with or without China's help, has no bearing whatsoever on what we do in our territorial waters.

It's not an "us or them" scenario, as you and the linked to author seem at some pains to imply. Cuba is not going to be "sucking out" "our" gulf oil reserves because "democrats" forced us to leave it fallow.

[e1618978]

Originally posted by addabox
It's not an "us or them" scenario, as you and the linked to author seem at some pains to imply. Cuba is not going to be "sucking out" "our" gulf oil reserves because "democrats" forced us to leave it fallow.

So you don't think that the wells pump from the same underground reservour? To me it looks like the same soda with two straws...

[MarcUK]

Originally posted by e1618978
So you don't think that the wells pump from the same underground reservour? To me it looks like the same soda with two straws...

well if it is the case, then the oil belongs as much to cuba as it does to the US. So you'll have to revert to that long lost concept of sharing

[addabox]

But it's not. The Gulf is comprised of quite a few separate "fields"-- geological distinct areas of deposition-- so that pumping oil out of one doesn't drain another.

The conditions that made an area like the Gulf rich in hydrocarbon deposits in the first place prevailed across a large swath, but the complexity of the underlying strata mitigate against one big pool.

[Placebo]

You guys have fun with your oil now, because it'll be damned slim pickins in thirty years. Authorizing Alaskan and offshore drilling is only going to slow our production decline; the peak already happened in the eighties.

[e1618978]

Originally posted by addabox
But it's not. The Gulf is comprised of quite a few separate "fields"-- geological distinct areas of deposition-- so that pumping oil out of one doesn't drain another.

The conditions that made an area like the Gulf rich in hydrocarbon deposits in the first place prevailed across a large swath, but the complexity of the underlying strata mitigate against one big pool.

There are big pools - the Mexican Cantarell field is one. However - I can't find a free oil field map to see if our field is seperate from the Cuban one.

There is talk about voiding a treaty with Cuba over this - if they start drilling, spilled oil slicks could ruin our coastline.

[Aquatic]

Yeah no kidding, dmz or southside or common man...look up what a 200 mile EEZ is.

The United States does not have any say over what Cuba does in Cuban waters. It's really kind of simple. I looked at the map, looks like it's in their waters. And I guess we'd have to share if the reservoir overlaps as Marc I believe said.

[e1618978]

Originally posted by Aquatic
Yeah no kidding, dmz or southside or common man...look up what a 200 mile EEZ is.

The United States does not have any say over what Cuba does in Cuban waters. It's really kind of simple. I looked at the map, looks like it's in their waters. And I guess we'd have to share if the reservoir overlaps as Marc I believe said.

The channel is only 90 miles wide between Cuba and Florida - so there is a treaty that says we get 45 miles and they get 45 miles.

If it is important enough to us, we could invade...

[southside grabowski]

Originally posted by Aquatic
Yeah no kidding, dmz or southside or common man...look up what a 200 mile EEZ is.

The United States does not have any say over what Cuba does in Cuban waters. It's really kind of simple. I looked at the map, looks like it's in their waters. And I guess we'd have to share if the reservoir overlaps as Marc I believe said.

Ah, the left. I didn't say anything about stopping China or Cuba from drilling. My concern is that we are sitting on our hands while China and Cuba get to buisness.

[Bergermeister]

Originally posted by e1618978
The channel is only 90 miles wide between Cuba and Florida - so there is a treaty that says we get 45 miles and they get 45 miles.

If it is important enough to us, we could invade...

With Bush in the WH, that probability is rather high.

Why don't Americans practice something called control and bring down their own wasteful need? 42% of all the oil used in the world for automobiles is used by the USA, which has less than 5% of the world's population.

As Calvin so aptly put it, "Waste and want, that's my motto".

[southside grabowski]

We may need to move on Venezuela as well.

[southside grabowski]

Originally posted by Bergermeister
With Bush in the WH, that probability is rather high.

Why don't Americans practice something called control and bring down their own wasteful need? 42% of all the oil used in the world for automobiles is used by the USA, which has less than 5% of the world's population.

As Calvin so aptly put it, "Waste and want, that's my motto".


We are a very productive 5%.

[Gilsch]

Originally posted by southside grabowski
We may need to move on Venezuela as well. We? Were you planning on enrolling this time around? It's a rhetorical question. WE all know the answer to that one. :lol:

[FormerLurker]

Originally posted by southside grabowski
We are a very productive 5%. I suggest you read up on the difference between "production" and "consumption."

[Fellowship]

Wouldn't it be nice to see Americans take a lesson from europe when it comes to driving smaller cars.

Here in my area we have many wealthy folks who simply will not be seen in anything less than a gas guzzler.

One day I may take my camera to my local mega parking lot and take a picture of all the huge suv's one after another after another.

You see Americans have these HUGE baby appliances which take up a "cargo van" worth of space just so they can take Cindy or Jack to the store with them.

What if we had slim baby appliances which would fit in the trunk of a small sedan.

Americans could shift from V8 powered "Homes on wheels" that get 8-13 miles per gal to sedans which get 33 miles per gal.

The demand would be far more relaxed at the pump and we could all be a little more conservative with our consumption of oil.

Of course Americans are slow to change....

Fellows

[Outsider]

Didn't you hear Ari Fleischer in 2001? Lawmakers should preserve the "American Way Of Life" in all policy making. What kind of message would we be sending our reps if we ignored their attempts at making us more American? That's treason!

[southside grabowski]

Originally posted by Fellowship
Wouldn't it be nice to see Americans take a lesson from europe when it comes to driving smaller cars.

Here in my area we have many wealthy folks who simply will not be seen in anything less than a gas guzzler.

One day I may take my camera to my local mega parking lot and take a picture of all the huge suv's one after another after another.

You see Americans have these HUGE baby appliances which take up a "cargo van" worth of space just so they can take Cindy or Jack to the store with them.

What if we had slim baby appliances which would fit in the trunk of a small sedan.






Americans could shift from V8 powered "Homes on wheels" that get 8-13 miles per gal to sedans which get 33 miles per gal.

The demand would be far more relaxed at the pump and we could all be a little more conservative with our consumption of oil.

Of course Americans are slow to change....

Fellows



Did the folks in Europe get that way by choice or necessity? I see a lot of newly arrived Europeans driving big SUVs, BMWs and Mercedes Benzes. I think that folks will gravitate towards those cars if they can afford it.

[Bergermeister]

Necessity, perhaps, but it is better for all of us in the long run.

[addabox]

Well, it all depends on how you define "necessity", doesn't it?

I mean, if invading Cuba and Venezuela are on the table before driving more fuel efficient cars, then it is apparently a pretty elastic concept.

"Sure, I'd consider giving up my SUV, but not until we've explored less drastic options such as invading our neighbors and killing tens of thousands of people and possibly starting WWIII".

[Outsider]

Why do you hate the American Way of Life?

[e1618978]

Originally posted by addabox
Well, it all depends on how you define "necessity", doesn't it?

I mean, if invading Cuba and Venezuela are on the table before driving more fuel efficient cars, then it is apparently a pretty elastic concept.

"Sure, I'd consider giving up my SUV, but not until we've explored less drastic options such as invading our neighbors and killing tens of thousands of people and possibly starting WWIII".

The invasion of Cuba was suggested as a way to STOP them from drilling, not to force them to drill more.

[addabox]

Originally posted by e1618978
The invasion of Cuba was suggested as a way to STOP them from drilling, not to force them to drill more.

OK, so we'll invade Cuba to stop them from drilling their oil and invade Venezuela to take their oil.

Hmmm.... not feeling it.

[vinea]

If the cubans are drilling into a common reserve then I'd support drilling en masse and pulling as much out on our side of the line as possible.

But otherwise, drilling ANWR and other US reserves no. If folks are willing to sell us oil at $70 that's perfectly fine. In 10 years when the China really hits the stride in consumption these will be the good old days. In 20, out national reserves will be worth a lot lot more.

That's what annoys me about so called conservatives. The inability to plan for the future.

Vinea

[Bergermeister]

:err:

[vinea]

Originally posted by Bergermeister
:err:

Its better than saying "stop using oil" from atop your high horse...

[Fellowship]

Originally posted by addabox
Well, it all depends on how you define "necessity", doesn't it?

I mean, if invading Cuba and Venezuela are on the table before driving more fuel efficient cars, then it is apparently a pretty elastic concept.

"Sure, I'd consider giving up my SUV, but not until we've explored less drastic options such as invading our neighbors and killing tens of thousands of people and possibly starting WWIII".


Damn,, You NAILED IT !!!


That last paragraph would make one hell of a Sig.

Fellows

[ThinkingDifferent]

Originally posted by e1618978
If it is important enough to us, we could invade... [/B]

We already tried that. It didn't work.

[Relic]

Originally posted by ThinkingDifferent
We already tried that. It didn't work.

No, no that was to protect us against an inevitable invasion by a mighty country with mobile biological weapons labs and nuclear weapons powered by yellowcake uranium from Niger. Thank god our Connecticut born Texas wannabe rancher George WALKER Bush was there to protect us.

I'm a staunch believer in driving cars that get at least 60 mpg. In fact I'm so adamant about it I would vote for a law outlawing any car not meeting that requirement, I mean it is the year 2006. They had cars that could do that back in the 70's. Here in Switzerland I own a Smart (http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/auto/car-guide-2005/Smart1.asp) , a tiny commuter car in which I only use on the weekends, during the week I take the bus.

[Hassan i Sabbah]

Originally posted by southside grabowski
Did the folks in Europe get that way by choice or necessity? I see a lot of newly arrived Europeans driving big SUVs, BMWs and Mercedes Benzes. I think that folks will gravitate towards those cars if they can afford it.
Firstly, BMWs and Mercedes Benzes are made in Europe, where we use them as taxis.

We do not drive huge cars in Europe because our cities were not planned for the use of motor vehicles and we do not have the same car culture. This is one of the first observations to strike anyone who visits the United States from Europe.

Europe is not like America with different languages and funny food. It is a bunch of different countries with extremely different cultures. Please come and see it. In fact, please leave your country, just for a couple of weeks, and go fucking anywhere.

[Fellowship]

Originally posted by Relic
No, no that was to protect us against an inevitable invasion by a mighty country with mobile biological weapons labs and nuclear weapons powered by yellowcake uranium from Niger. Thank god our Connecticut born Texas wannabe rancher George WALKER Bush was there to protect us.

I'm a staunch believer in driving cars that get at least 60 mpg. In fact I'm so adamant about it I would vote for a law outlawing any car not meeting that requirement, I mean it is the year 2006. They had cars that could do that back in the 70's. Here in Switzerland I own a Smart (http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/auto/car-guide-2005/Smart1.asp) , a tiny commuter car in which I only use on the weekends, during the week I take the bus.


I am with you as it concerns mpg.

Having gotten my wife a new car back in Christmas last year I decided to drive her old Jeep. I just traded it in for a 2006 Honda Civic 4 door sedan which is rated 30 mpg city 40 mpg hwy.

The jeep would go 220 miles for $40 and this Honda goes 400 miles for $29.

I just put in my first tank of gas last night and it came to $29!!!! Something cool about the sub $30 price ;)

The new civic is a solid small car packed with great technology, safty and features.



http://automobiles.honda.com/images/banners/2006/Civic_Sedan/exterior_gallery/large1.jpg

[Placebo]

Except by buying an old, nonhybrid car, you're conserving more oil than the hybrid car could ever consume in its lifetime.

[e1618978]

Originally posted by Relic
No, no that was to protect us against an inevitable invasion by a mighty country with mobile biological weapons labs and nuclear weapons powered by yellowcake uranium from Niger. Thank god our Connecticut born Texas wannabe rancher George WALKER Bush was there to protect us.

I think that he was referring to the Bay of Pigs deal, not Iraq.

[Placebo]

Originally posted by southside grabowski
We may need to move on Venezuela as well.
Venezuela has fifty of these bad boys ordered up already. They're equipped with anti-ship missiles and ready to make US trade awful sore for a while.

http://www.mosnews.com/files/4341/mig29.jpg

[Gilsch]

Originally posted by Fellowship
Edit: we don't need another pic of the Civics. :) The new Civics are very cool little cars. The sporty one is very fast too. I believe they have a hybrid too.

[Corey]

Originally posted by Placebo
You guys have fun with your oil now, because it'll be damned slim pickins in thirty years. Authorizing Alaskan and offshore drilling is only going to slow our production decline; the peak already happened in the eighties.

Which is why we need to start the process now. It will take 10 years to get Alaska up to speed. The fact that a supposedly Republican congress could not get this passed is disgusting. So we let China drill off Florida instead?

Oh, and for those of you twitching that we would have massive oil spills, the Chinese are far more likely to spill because it's not their land! Also our technology has improved dramatically. 100 drill rigs we ripped off their moorings during Katrina without a single spill. The wells now close themselves off.

On the more positive side of things, NewScientist reports a breakthrough in Solar Cell technology.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/mg19025531.600.html

[addabox]

Originally posted by Gilsch
The new Civics are very cool little cars. The sporty one is very fast too. I believe they have a hybrid too.

One thing that bugs me about small, fuel efficient cars is that the manufacturers apparently think that the only people who want them are young urban hipsters with a sense of style honed on cell phones and video games.

I like the new Civic, too, except for the GIANT PUPRLE MPH readout pushed up in the center of your field of view until it practically obscures your view of the road. Honda used to be a model of well laid out interior design, but now it seems they've succumbed to the "I'm a 12 year old that like to pretend he's in a rocket ship" school of instrumentation.

Things like the Yaris and Scions have that "consumer electronic arcade" interior look as well (and I hate the center mount instrument cluster-- what's that all about? Not having to move it back and forth for different markets? Shit, why not put the steering wheel in the middle and be done with it?), and are marketed like they're hip-hop energy drinks

I'm guessing the Honda Fit has been sold as a very practical car in the rest of the world; here, it's morphed into some kind of juvenile street-beast-I'm-an-iconoclastic-badass thing.

Car manufacturers seem to be stuck on "fuel efficient equals starter car, equal kids, equals ludicrous pandering", except for hybrids, and I don't know that I necessarily want the added expense and complexity of a hybrid.

I want to buy a 40 mph gasoline engine car that doesn't make me think of of one of those hideously over-pimped boom boxes.

[Placebo]

Originally posted by Corey
Which is why we need to start the process now. It will take 10 years to get Alaska up to speed. The fact that a supposedly Republican congress could not get this passed is disgusting. So we let China drill off Florida instead?

Oh, and for those of you twitching that we would have massive oil spills, the Chinese are far more likely to spill because it's not their land! Also our technology has improved dramatically. 100 drill rigs we ripped off their moorings during Katrina without a single spill. The wells now close themselves off.

On the more positive side of things, NewScientist reports a breakthrough in Solar Cell technology.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/mg19025531.600.html
A pipeline from Alaska could bring, let's see, under 2% of our current demand. People would save more oil by accellerating more slowly out of stoplights for christsake.

[Placebo]

My mom has a Toyota Matrix. It is not a hybrid, it drives decently, it's capacious and looks pretty slick. It gets 40 miles per gallon.

[Relic]

Originally posted by Placebo
My mom has a Toyota Matrix. It is not a hybrid, it drives decently, it's capacious and looks pretty slick. It gets 40 miles per gallon.


Huh, my mom also has a Japanese ride, she got him after the Brazilian pool boy was deported.

[Placebo]

Oh, that was pretty irresistable, wasn't it. :rolleyes:

[Relic]

Originally posted by Placebo
Oh, that was pretty irresistable, wasn't it. :rolleyes:

Yeah I was definitely nibbling at the bit on that one.