UK: shot 'terror' suspects freed - no charges

[segovius]

So we've gone from 'terror raid on chemical labs - terrorist shot' to there being no signs of any chemical labs, no evidence of terrorist activity and the victim of police shooting being dragged from his hospital bed to be 'questioned'.

These things happen in today's climate and everyone is a potential target of the security forces who might choose to shoot them or the fundie religionists who might choose to bomb them. That is not my point.

My point is the reaction - or what passes for reaction, most of it being subsumed in (intentional?) saturation WC coverage.

I was listening to the radio last night and there was an interview with a Police spokesman who basically said the following in response to the question 'do the Police apologize and was this a mistake?'

He essentially said: these incidents may increase - they are the fault of al-Qaeda and the terrorists. They are the ones that want to kill large numbers of the public and they are the ones who have created a situation where the police have to regrettably shoot people in order to protect them.

This seems to me a text-book example of the slide to fascism - it mirrors the steps exactly.

First you lose your freedoms.

Then you somehow have to accept members of the public being 'shot, killed or 'disappeared'

All for the 'common good'.

Thoughts?







'Terror suspects' exonerated (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5066846.stm)

[ronaldo]

Originally posted by segovius
So we've gone from 'terror raid on chemical labs - terrorist shot' to there being no signs of any chemical labs, no evidence of terrorist activity and the victim of police shooting being dragged from his hospital bed to be 'questioned'.

These things happen in today's climate and everyone is a potential target of the security forces who might choose to shoot them or the fundie religionists who might choose to bomb them. That is not my point.

My point is the reaction - or what passes for reaction, most of it being subsumed in (intentional?) saturation WC coverage.

I was listening to the radio last night and there was an interview with a Police spokesman who basically said the following in response to the question 'do the Police apologize and was this a mistake?'

He essentially said: these incidents may increase - they are the fault of al-Qaeda and the terrorists. They are the ones that want to kill large numbers of the public and they are the ones who have created a situation where the police have to regrettably shoot people in order to protect them.

This seems to me a text-book example of the slide to fascism - it mirrors the steps exactly.

First you lose your freedoms.

Then you somehow have to accept members of the public being 'shot, killed or 'disappeared'

All for the 'common good'.

Thoughts?







'Terror suspects' exonerated (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5066846.stm)


This is exactly what happens when we live in a world ruled by fear.
A slide to Fascism, I don't know, you may be right.

[rufusswan]

Sego,

Am up early watching the sunrise and drinking Jasmine tea. Brain is not in fast forward yet, so I did not grok the "saturation WC coverage" statement. (WC?) so I may have entirely missed your point. If so, I apologize in advance.

I think you are suffering the actual 1st step in the process, the 'catalyst' that creates the initial "fear/paranoia/feeling of superiority". It's rather frighnting to think that the Jewish holocost started with the rise of German nationalizm.

The "You loose your freedoms." step, well maybe you meant "Your freedoms appear to be abused?". Maybe you might elaborate on this just a little. What did you loose, which freedom was lost? (Again, my brain is just starting to work)

But, yes you are basically right, and I think that is the basic goal of terrorism. Create fear and confusion. From there, the slide begins.

Paz

[segovius]

Originally posted by rufusswan
Sego,

Am up early watching the sunrise and drinking Jasmine tea. Brain is not in fast forward yet, so I did not grok the "saturation WC coverage" statement. (WC?) so I may have entirely missed your point. If so, I apologize in advance.

I think you are suffering the actual 1st step in the process, the 'catalyst' that creates the initial "fear/paranoia/feeling of superiority". It's rather frighnting to think that the Jewish holocost started with the rise of German nationalizm.

The "You loose your freedoms." step, well maybe you meant "Your freedoms appear to be abused?". Maybe you might elaborate on this just a little. What did you loose, which freedom was lost? (Again, my brain is just starting to work)

But, yes you are basically right, and I think that is the basic goal of terrorism. Create fear and confusion. From there, the slide begins.

Paz

Hi Rufusswan

WC = World Cup :D

I think you ask a very good question when you say 'what freedoms have you lost' and it has forced me to think a bit about it. People say this all the time that they have lost something but it is not easy to quantify what.

From my pov I do not feel personally that I have lost much as the things that have been stopped do not apply to me.

The right to demonstrate for example - this has been severely curtailed in the UK but it is not something I would ever do if I lived there (which I don't). still, to some people, this is a loss - but the point to me is that it is symbolic of something sinister.

I mean, why stop it? What legitimate reason could there be?

But the thing about a slide into fascism is that it is never what you think. People tend to think that it is a scenario like a Saddam oppressing people who resent it and hate it.

It is sometimes not like this at all - the populace sometimes become fascists - or at least a perty to it - and they enjoy iy. Of course they close their eyes to the inhumane aspects but for them there are many benefits. This is exactly how it was in Nazi Germany.

So if I am saying there is a slide to fascism it is not that people in the UK might not care as such - they might actually be welcoming the change. After all, they are not the targets (unless they are from an ethnic minority)_ and prosperity continues apace.

And they feel safer. Under fascism those who align themselves with the 'new paradigm' never have anything to worry about. they are always rewarded.

It is only the opponents of the regime that need to worry about 'losing rights'. Everyone else willingly surrenders them and will kill for the right to do so.

[rufusswan]

Well,

WC = World Cup

It appears that I have gone out of my way to reinforce the "Stupid Hillbilly from the Ozarks" stereotype in front of the world. Jeez, what a dumbass I can be early in the morning.

"The populace sometimes BECOME fascists" without realizing it. Yes, that is a real danger. In my neighborhood that idea is phrased with the old homily that "He is turning a blind eye to the situation". Looking toward it without actually seeing the real issue.

I hold out some hope for the Brit's though. You would think a country who could turn out a book that was as portentful as Mr. Orwell's "1984" might be smart enough to see the forest insead of the trees. (or visa versa) I think I'll reread it sometime soon.

Paz

[MarcUK]

One thing that concerns me is the ability to 'plant' evidence and seriously screw up someones life.

For instance, having seen what has come to pass, what is stopping me (theoretically) from finding a few 'recipies' on the net, printing them out, obtaining some extremist Islamist literature, a koran, a few pics of Zarqawi, and some fertilizer, planting it in someones shed, and anonomously tipping off the police?

That person will be mass raided at 4 am, shot, and if surviving this - taken into custody indefinately and branded a terrorist for life.