Cingular stores buzzing with iPhone inquiries [Archive]

AppleInsider

01-11-2007, 01:06 PM

Although Apple's iPhone won't start shipping for another 6 months, exclusive wireless carrier Cingular is already fielding tons of inquiries on the communications device from enthused customers, an analyst for JMP Securities said on Thursday.

"Based on the buzz at Macworld and a number of channel calls we made to Cingular stores around the country since the product was announced, we believe the product will be successful," analyst Ingrid Ebeling wrote in a research note to clients on Thursday.

She said 75 percent of the 20 clerks she spoke with responded by saying they have received a lot of inquiries about the iPhone and overall the tone of the calls was extremely positive.

"We were very impressed with the form factor and features, especially the U/I, the visual voicemail feature, and touch screen controls, among other things," she told clients.

While Apple has projected it will sell 10 million units through calendar year 2008, Ebeling said she is taking a more conservative approach and is forecasting 8.5 million units through the same time period "with an approximate 2 million unit decline in iPod units" to account for some likely cannibalization.

"We’ve assumed modest share with Cingular’s 58 million subscribers (starting at 0.35 percent share rolling up to 1.75 percent share through the end of 2008) and very modest share of the estimated European market (250 million subs) and Asian market (1 billion subs)," she wrote.

The analyst on Thursday raised her revenue and earnings-per-share (EPS) estimates slightly for Apple's 2007 fiscal year, from revenue of $24.4 billion to $27.3 billion and EPS from $2.84 to $2.85.* For fiscal 2008, she raised her revenue estimate from $27.4 billion to $29.4 billion and EPS from $3.18 to $3.47.

Ebeling also raised her price target on shares of Apple from $93 to $100.[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2385)

tomozj

01-11-2007, 01:18 PM

The analyst on Thursday raised her revenue and earnings-per-share (EPS) estimates slightly for Apple's 2007 fiscal year, from revenue of $27.3 billion to $24.4 billion and EPS from $2.84 to $2.85.* For fiscal 2008, she raised her revenue estimate from $27.4 billion to $29.4 billion and EPS from $3.18 to $3.47.

Typo? :P

And I'd like to know where Cingular operates in the EU... I don't have Cingular in the UK unless the are undercover as another network :o

-tj

a_greer

01-11-2007, 01:18 PM

I feel for the guys working the stores/kiosks who get to hear 5.5 months of "is it here yet?" while probably loosing half of their real volume to people who want that phone and will wait to do the upgrade/contract renewal.

Universe Man

01-11-2007, 01:44 PM

LOL, considering how little information is available even to ardent fanboys, I'm sure Cingular retail employees are VERY well-informed!

a_greer

01-11-2007, 01:55 PM

LOL, considering how little information is available even to ardent fanboys, I'm sure Cingular retail employees are VERY well-informed!

I was actually serious: having worked in a cell phone retail situation, I can tell you that the pressure to hit your goals is emence.

I garentee when the release datte of June was announced, the sales force lost heart: they are paid by commission: move a Razor in stead of a craptastic free phone, get $x, sell a data/SMS plan, get more...
but now, the ones that would be willing to buy a Razor, BlackJack, Treo or any other phone that could make a NICE addition ot the paycheck will hold off for 5 months..

These are not small commissions...on a standard color flipphone with an 800 min/$59.99 plan (the most popular) and a text bundle that runs $5/Mo, I could have made ~$40 in spiffs in addition to a genourous ~5% commision on the RETAIL PRICE (not the contract price) of the handset and accessories: all of this in addition to the $6/Hr that was the "base". if you were really really great, you could make ~$60/hr...but if there were no customers for 4-5 months...you would be HOSED.

but when these puppies hit...if you are a fast typist and can key account numbers and ESNs fast, then you will be in the money...smartphones could net like $100 per unit in spiffs and commissions sooo...if you could do one every 10 minutes...$600/hr if you have the foot traffic to support the speed.

The Truthbearer

01-11-2007, 02:59 PM

SpamSandwich

01-11-2007, 03:09 PM

I called the AppleStore near me before the Keynote ended yesterday, and the business sales guy sounded surprised that the iPhone had even been announced. :D

ebaydan777

01-11-2007, 03:10 PM

domerdel

01-11-2007, 03:13 PM

The Truthbearer

01-11-2007, 03:35 PM

ok first i dont think they intended to replace the ipod completely, and if they did they never mentioned which version, i think they went with the nano to replace

2. i think battery life may not be too long but theres still time for this to change by the time the phone is released

3. jobs said they have tested many many version of different glasses for the phone and have come with one that is scratch resistant and resistant to lots of fingerprints

and finally..you are wrong nothing is closed yet, people are starting rumors such as TUAW who spoke to a fricken security guard who probably had no idea what he was talking about, all i know is when people actually asked APPLE themselves, apple said "NO COMMENT"...im going to assume software will be in the works before release date, its a simple feature for windows mobile why not be so for mac..theyre smart too

You are so wrong on point #3. Why don't you look at:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/macworld2007/gizmodo-iphone-hands-on-part-deux-why-isnt-it-white-and-other-questions-227575.php

It is the same screen as the regular iPod with a touch sensor laid over it.
Also, do your homework before you tell me I am wrong about the closed OS -both that same interview, and Steve Jobs' Newsweek interview (today) confirmed that it will be closed. And if you think you can significant;y improve battery life with new technology in a couple of months, you need to get an education...

anantksundaram

01-11-2007, 03:40 PM

Flounder

01-11-2007, 03:55 PM

(2)Apple tends to wildly exaggerate battery life, so if they say 5 hours -I take it with a grain of salt and wonder - what if it is something miserable, like 2 in real world conditions? Without a user-replaceable battery, it has to have some good battery life unless you want to be saddled with a charger at home, work, car, etc...

In my experience apple's battery claims, on iPods especially, are pretty dang accurate. Walter Mossberg does a strenuous batter ytest on every iPod he's ever reviewed, and they always last exactly what apple said they would, and sometimes a little longer.

That said, I imagine one of the very first accessories you'll see for the iPhone is a battery pack.

Idle

01-11-2007, 03:58 PM

I can say that our Apple Store has been getting a good amount of calls about the iPhone as well. There's enthusiasm out there, that's for sure...

ebaydan777

01-11-2007, 04:05 PM

You are so wrong on point #3. Why don't you look at:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/macworld2007/gizmodo-iphone-hands-on-part-deux-why-isnt-it-white-and-other-questions-227575.php

It is the same screen as the regular iPod with a touch sensor laid over it.
Also, do your homework before you tell me I am wrong about the closed OS -both that same interview, and Steve Jobs' Newsweek interview (today) confirmed that it will be closed. And if you think you can significant;y improve battery life with new technology in a couple of months, you need to get an education...

ok first of all were both wrong..i guess os x is a closed app phone...but you are also wrong on the glass, watch the keynote where he introduces the phone, he even said it himself that he went through many types of glass that wont be scratched easily or fingerprinted much....this im 100% sure i heard

JeffDM

01-11-2007, 04:21 PM

seamuskrat

01-11-2007, 04:27 PM

Actually, that is inaccurate.

This screen is new to any iPod. it has a higher resolution at 160 PPI so that makes it unique. Add to that a glass platten layer and overlay for the touch electronics and we have a different beast that cannot be compared to previous models.

Stebe does explicitly state they tested a variety of screens, but that could be all RDF hype.

Bottom line, we do not know. its a new screen and not enough peopel have had a chance to examine it up close.

Please be accurate in your statements. While it will probably smudge and scratch SOME, I would expect some of the previous mistakes have been ironed out. Even with Steve's arrogance, Apple rarely makes the same mistake twice.
You are so wrong on point #3. Why don't you look at:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/macworld2007/gizmodo-iphone-hands-on-part-deux-why-isnt-it-white-and-other-questions-227575.php

It is the same screen as the regular iPod with a touch sensor laid over it.
Also, do your homework before you tell me I am wrong about the closed OS -both that same interview, and Steve Jobs' Newsweek interview (today) confirmed that it will be closed. And if you think you can significant;y improve battery life with new technology in a couple of months, you need to get an education...

JeffDM

01-11-2007, 04:29 PM

What else is sucking up all the extra battery life on the iPhone?

The radio hardware. The bigger screen - especially the backlight. The graphics & processor may be more powerful too.

zedwards

01-11-2007, 04:32 PM

I can't believe that Cingular will sell 10 million of these when there customers are almost 60 million. Does NOT compute. $500-600 phone in the land of nokia 6010?

Flounder

01-11-2007, 04:49 PM

I can't believe that Cingular will sell 10 million of these when there customers are almost 60 million. Does NOT compute. $500-600 phone in the land of nokia 6010?

I believe 10 million worldwide in 2008 what they're shooting for, which will of course include other cell phone companies.

plus

01-11-2007, 04:50 PM

I can't believe that Cingular will sell 10 million of these when there customers are almost 60 million. Does NOT compute. $500-600 phone in the land of nokia 6010?

Apple's 10 million unit sales target for the iPhone is for Apple's FY08, worldwide - which includes sales in Europe and Asia, not just Cingular/U.S. sales. (And note that's for fiscal year '08, not calendar year, so the meter starts running this coming October 1.)

bavlondon2

01-11-2007, 04:53 PM

So whats the pricing for you guys in the US. I saw something like $400 for the phone and thats on a 2 year contract. Do youhave monthly bills on top of this?

I just want to get an idea of the price. Over here in the UK everyone is saying 250 for the 4GB and £350 for the 8gb one.

ebaydan777

01-11-2007, 05:05 PM

$599 for 8gb model and $499 for 4gb model with 2 year contract

auxio

01-11-2007, 05:08 PM

Why I would go for a new iPod over an iPhone for a while:
(1) If I were going to spring 600 bucks on a "convergence" device, I would want something that would actually replace my ipod - all 23 gigs of my music/photos/video podcasts. I mean, it is widescreen with brilliant video - but only 8 Gigs? Perhaps as a nano replacement it works...But it is no full ipod replacement with only 8 Gigs of memory...
Well, maybe I'm not the average user, but I prefer to store my MP3 collection on a RAID 5 server myself. Having had 6 hard drives die on me over a 10 year period, I don't trust a collection of music I've spent 7 years building to any single hard drive -- especially a portable one. That's like leaving a collection of vinyl records in a glass house and hoping the sun doesn't shine for too long on it.

So 8 gigs is plenty for me on a portable listening device.
(2)Apple tends to wildly exaggerate battery life, so if they say 5 hours -I take it with a grain of salt and wonder - what if it is something miserable, like 2 in real world conditions? Without a user-replaceable battery, it has to have some good battery life unless you want to be saddled with a charger at home, work, car, etc...
Admittedly, I'm not an avid cell phone user, but I'm sure that there'll be enough charge in one battery to last at least a day under heavy use. I dunno about you, but I can't always listen to music at my job. I actually need to speak with people and go to meetings occasionally. At which time I won't be using the device. I also prefer to read and send email at a real computer with a decent sized monitor. So I'd estimate heavy use to be about 6-8 hours of continuous usage (being on the phone, listening to music, or internet usage when you're not at a real computer). I'm sure the battery will be able to do that at the very least. This isn't a laptop computer after all.
(3) If I so much as glance at my ipod screen, it scratches - hopefully it is more smudge-scratch proof than it seems...
If you're so averse to scratches, buy a protective case for it. I'm sure there'll be plenty of them when this device hits the market. I personally view a few scuffs and scratches to be the normal wear and tear of ownership, but I can understand the need to keep things in "mint condition" some people have.
Finally, the software is closed - so you have to wait for Apple to release a "widget" that you could really use but Apple hasn't released it yet.
If it's based on Mac OS, then I'm sure that Apple will be happy to provide developer tools for it once it's released. After all, the more cool applications/widgets/etc which are developed for the phone, the more phones they'll sell. I can't see why they'd keep it as a closed development environment after it's been released to the public.

Unless you're expecting them to open source the OS itself -- but I'm not sure why you'd need that unless you're planning to develop your own device based on it.

ebaydan777

01-11-2007, 05:32 PM

wow very nicely put, i agree with everything you have said auxio, except that last part, i guess Job's said it will be closed app on newsweek, but he did say that widgets will become the future of apps and most things should be created on widgets, and he also said that if third parties did want to create products, they would have to go through apple and have permission along with a Q&A time about the software...at least everything will be clean and not buggy on the phone, my Dash has a lot of things i put on myself and the phone now works half the time..kind of sucks

solipsism

01-11-2007, 05:37 PM

(1) If I were going to spring 600 bucks on a "convergence" device, I would want something that would actually replace my ipod - all 23 gigs of my music/photos/video podcasts. I mean, it is widescreen with brilliant video - but only 8 Gigs? Perhaps as a nano replacement it works...But it is no full ipod replacement with only 8 Gigs of memory...
It's not meant to replace ANY iPod. Do you really expect people to strap an iPhone to their arm when they're working out? It's a replacement for crappy smartphones. That's it! NOt everyone wants or needs an iPhone just as not everyone wants or needs an iPod video. If you look at Apple's marketing and release history, the next major change to the iPod Video will be a full size, touch screen with a 100GB HDD.

(2)Apple tends to wildly exaggerate battery life, so if they say 5 hours -I take it with a grain of salt and wonder - what if it is something miserable, like 2 in real world conditions? Without a user-replaceable battery, it has to have some good battery life unless you want to be saddled with a charger at home, work, car, etc...
THe weren't very accurate several years prior but now they are pretty dead on balls with multiple reports that the battery exceeded Apple's claims.

(3) If I so much as glance at my ipod screen, it scratches - hopefully it is more smudge-scratch proof than it seems...
Nope. It's the same polycarbonate screen with a touch sensitive film applied. I guess you shouldn't "glance" at it. Nice hyperbole, there! The trick is to either not care or actaully take care of your stuff.

Finally, the software is closed - so you have to wait for Apple to release a "widget" that you could really use but Apple hasn't released it yet.

There is always a chance someone will hack the OS, but there are several reasons why Apple has a closed platform. It's a lvoe hate thing, but overall, it keeps the phone is working solidly. Poorly made 3rd-party apps is the leading cause of system errors. Apple could also sell widgets on the iTS or they may be working on a development kit. The current Xocde won't work. remember, the Phone doesn't have a PPC or Intel processor.

ebaydan777

01-11-2007, 05:47 PM

i thought it might be running PPC...they just didnt know yet...nothing has really been official about the chip in the phone, im gonna hope its something ppc ARM or intel, even tho intel said they have no idea about it haha

kenaustus

01-11-2007, 06:11 PM

It's not meant to replace ANY iPod.

I think that, to some degree it is. It's biggest market will probably be the customer that justifies it has the best iPod - and one that includes a phone, so it is easier to justify buying. If you were giong to buy a new iPod, replacing a 1 or 2 gen iPod what would you be looking at? All of a sudden you're looking at one more iPod - this one with a phone included as well as being the most beautiful iPod made.

To make it easier to decide I would not be surprised to see Apple releasing an iPod that is basically the iPhone without the phone. It will generate more profits for Apple (especially through economies of scale) and blow the market apart - yet again.

solipsism

01-11-2007, 06:41 PM

I think that, to some degree it is. It's biggest market will probably be the customer that justifies it has the best iPod - and one that includes a phone, so it is easier to justify buying. If you were giong to buy a new iPod, replacing a 1 or 2 gen iPod what would you be looking at? All of a sudden you're looking at one more iPod - this one with a phone included as well as being the most beautiful iPod made.

Every new iPod model has altered the sales of the other iPod models when it's introduced. So why do they do it? Obviously, it opens their product up to s larger range of potential customers. The iPhone WILL NOT replace the iPod Video for those that:
a) prefer their non-Cingular call carrier
b) do not need a handheld internet device
c) do not want an al-in-one device
d) prefer more than >30GB of storage.
e) (to a lesser degree) prefer the textile feeling of a clickwheel for eyes-free operation.

To make it easier to decide I would not be surprised to see Apple releasing an iPod that is basically the iPhone without the phone.
That too is obvious. It's the next thing to do. I imaginethey will use OS X Leopard, like in the iPhone, to utilize Core Animation. Other features will all depend on if they can increase the battery life, capacity and/or hardware features (e.g.:wi-fi) without also signifiicantly increasing the weigh, size and/or cost. There is no way for us to know the logistics of the problems they face. I'm still awed by how much stuff they jammed into the iPhone.

McHuman

01-11-2007, 07:09 PM

I can't believe that Cingular will sell 10 million of these when there customers are almost 60 million. Does NOT compute. $500-600 phone in the land of nokia 6010?

Uhhh..how about NEW subscribers? Duh. :rolleyes:

I'm not a cingular subscriber but I'm tearing up my T-mobile contract the day the iPhone comes out. How to afford the cancelation fees? Just buy AAPL stock now, should easily cover it in six-months. 8)

ebaydan777

01-11-2007, 07:16 PM

haha me too....and A LOT of people will be doing the same thing...ill be in line for the iphone WHILE im cancelling my tmobile plan and porting my number..gonna be a great day

solipsism

01-11-2007, 07:25 PM

Me three. :D I like T-Mobile and have had horrible experiences with CIngular's customer service, but I will be switching to Cingular posthaste when the iPhonr is available.

ebaydan777

01-11-2007, 07:29 PM

Me three. :D I like T-Mobile and have had horrible experiences with CIngular's customer service, but I will be switching to Cingular posthaste when the iPhonr is available.

haha its not that bad..at least here in southern california, well all i can say is i have tmobile but have no idea about tmobiles service, i do know their support sucks, but i dont live near any tmobile towers, only cingular, so my phone always says cingular...never had a dropped called never had a problem for 9 months, im happy with it

a_greer

01-11-2007, 07:29 PM

You are so wrong on point #3. Why don't you look at:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/macworld2007/gizmodo-iphone-hands-on-part-deux-why-isnt-it-white-and-other-questions-227575.php

It is the same screen as the regular iPod with a touch sensor laid over it.
Also, do your homework before you tell me I am wrong about the closed OS -both that same interview, and Steve Jobs' Newsweek interview (today) confirmed that it will be closed. And if you think you can significant;y improve battery life with new technology in a couple of months, you need to get an education...

WHat do you mean by closed?

that doesnt mean that there will be no third party apps for it -- Windows Mobile is closed, but there are great 3rd party apps, ghell, MS sells an IDE specifically for it...and technically OSX is closed too...

I would bet money that they will put out an SDK/IDE for it at WWDC, which happens to be a little way after the phones release -- thus they can get a ton of feedback on the phone its self without any 2rd party interference...this is key for bug fixes and market research for what to change/add in future iterations.

McHuman

01-11-2007, 07:30 PM

Me three. :D I like T-Mobile and have had horrible experiences with CIngular's customer service, but I will be switching to Cingular posthaste when the iPhonr is available.

Yeah, cingular is not great. But the reason Apple went with them is because they suck so bad --Steve Jobs can strong-arm them to change their entire networks to fit his phone, and they are bending over and doing it else go out of business. Once the money pours into cingular, expect their infrastructure to grow fast. 3G, etc, will come quickly. I have no worries about the new Cingular.

Customer service bad? When SJ hears about it, he will get on his iPhone and straighten Cingular out, fast! :lol:

ebaydan777

01-11-2007, 07:42 PM

haha i love your thinking..and i agree...Jobs will spank spank spank till cingular stands tall to be a great carrier

and a_greer, i agree with you too...WWDC will be right after the launch and windows mobile is closed, yet they have some great apps that can be placed on the phone, iphone has mac os x so why not let apple make some awesome apps, they know what to do dont worry theyre user friendly unlike pc..remember?

JeffDM

01-11-2007, 07:50 PM

WHat do you mean by closed?

that doesnt mean that there will be no third party apps for it -- Windows Mobile is closed, but there are great 3rd party apps, ghell, MS sells an IDE specifically for it...and technically OSX is closed too...

Is Windows Mobile really closed? I knew a couple people that programmed for it using the regular Visual Studio bundle, no secret society, no hazing, nothing special.

McHuman

01-11-2007, 07:50 PM

haha i love your thinking..and i agree...Jobs will spank spank spank till cingular stands tall to be a great carrier

Exactly. Many of iPhone's ideas have been around, but the network companys rule the roost, not the phone designers. They have all kinds of stupid beurocracy and business suits preventing good ideas. SJ went to Cingular and said, "You guys suck, and you know it. You have no ideas of your own. No 3G, no media deals, etc. Give me everything I want and we will get an amazing phone, and will make you rich." Like vader and luke.

So..everyone is bad mouthing Cingular right now. Not so..the "new" Cingular w/iPhone will be totally badass, because it will have SJ's blessing and features. Trust me. SJ *had* to take a poor company to get what he wants....so of course were sacrifices like 3G. But we will get there..fast.

Meanwhile all the other pompus phone companys are s-c-r-e-w-e-d. :lol:

solipsism

01-11-2007, 08:02 PM

Let's not forget that CIngluar has 25% of all US customers.

SpamSandwich

01-11-2007, 08:14 PM

So, the question is, why am I getting only the equivalent of my spinning HD-based battery life on a flash-based product? Is it perhaps that Apple is finally being honest on this issue? What else is sucking up all the extra battery life on the iPhone?

Hello? Large touchscreen, advanced computer...? Hello? :\

SpamSandwich

01-11-2007, 08:17 PM

Let's not forget that CIngluar has 25% of all US customers.

How long will it take for Apple to buy out and build up it's own network... hmm... oh, Google! :lol:

ebaydan777

01-11-2007, 08:32 PM

haha i wouldnt be surprised if google and iphone made a network to be honest...that would be cool

McHuman

01-11-2007, 08:42 PM

How long will it take for Apple to buy out and build up it's own network... hmm... oh, Google! :lol:

Remember last year Apple purchased some huge data centers that had everyone scratching their heads. Now knowing the iPhone has been in development for 2+ years...I could see this happening!

SpamSandwich

01-11-2007, 08:45 PM

Remember last year Apple purchased some huge data centers that had everyone scratching their heads. Now knowing the iPhone has been in development for 2+ years...I could see this happening!

Look what Apple did with Motorola. They let Moto build a crummy phone and they learned from it. Now, they'll find out everything from Cingular, then cut their legs out from under them. I'm tellin' ya, Steve is cleverer than ever. :) Cingular has no vision and no long view of their business like Apple does.

solipsism

01-11-2007, 08:48 PM

How long will it take for Apple to buy out and build up it's own network... hmm... oh, Google! :lol:

I guess Apple has no plans to become an MVNO as long as the current and future carriers agree to improve things where Jobs sees fit. He may be a the Hitler of Technology, but I like his vision. Does that make me an iNazi.

digitalclips

01-11-2007, 09:27 PM

Could Apple buy Cingular?

solipsism

01-11-2007, 09:39 PM

Could Apple buy Cingular?

You tell me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless

PS:"AT&T Wireless merger

After a bidding war with Britain's Vodafone PLC, Cingular announced in February, 2004 that it would purchase AT&T Wireless for 41 billion dollars.
AT&T Wireless logo
Cingular Wireless logo

The merger was completed on October 26, 2004. The combined company had a customer base of 46 million people, which placed Cingular as the largest wireless provider in the United States.

Cingular has launched a high-speed network known as "BroadbandConnect," based on UMTS and High-Speed Downlink Packet Access (HSDPA), to counter Verizon Wireless and Sprint's EV-DO networks. UMTS service was launched on December 6, 2005 in Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, San Jose, San Diego, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Chicago, Boston, Baltimore and Washington D.C. Cingular is expected to launch UMTS in all major metropolitan markets by the end of 2006."

digitalclips

01-11-2007, 09:46 PM

You tell me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cingular_Wireless

PS:"AT&T Wireless merger

After a bidding war with Britain's Vodafone PLC, Cingular announced in February, 2004 that it would purchase AT&T Wireless for 41 billion dollars.
AT&T Wireless logo
Cingular Wireless logo

The merger was completed on October 26, 2004. The combined company had a customer base of 46 million people, which placed Cingular as the largest wireless provider in the United States.

Cingular has launched a high-speed network known as "BroadbandConnect," based on UMTS and High-Speed Downlink Packet Access (HSDPA), to counter Verizon Wireless and Sprint's EV-DO networks. UMTS service was launched on December 6, 2005 in Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, San Jose, San Diego, Las Vegas, Phoenix, Austin, Houston, Dallas, Chicago, Boston, Baltimore and Washington D.C. Cingular is expected to launch UMTS in all major metropolitan markets by the end of 2006."

Perhaps not! Well, it reads like Steve cozied up to a friendly Gorilla :)

mark2005

01-11-2007, 09:52 PM

My concern is over battery life. Some of you have mentioned that 4GGB/8GB on the iPhone was necessitated by the need to use the less power-hungry flash drives as in the Nano.

But the new Nanos with the flash drive give me 20+ hours of battery life.

I supposedly get 5 hours of video time (or 12+ hours of audio time) on my 60GB iPod with video (Apple's claim; actual life is a bit less).

So, the question is, why am I getting only the equivalent of my spinning HD-based battery life on a flash-based product? Is it perhaps that Apple is finally being honest on this issue? What else is sucking up all the extra battery life on the iPhone?

The iPhone is supposed to get 16 hours of audio time. That's less than the 20 hours but it does have a much nicer touch screen.

The 5 hours of talk time is at the high end of the cell industry. A friend of mine who used to work for Nokia on power mgmt said if true, it would be outstanding.

solipsism

01-11-2007, 10:01 PM

I hope it has a way to record phone conversations. I know many softphones have this feature, but does any current smartphone have this feature?

digitalclips

01-11-2007, 10:05 PM

I hope it has a way to record phone conversations. I know many softphones have this feature, but does any current smartphone have this feature?

Yeah, it needs Ovolab's software.

solipsism

01-11-2007, 10:09 PM

I wonder if you can just just keep converging calls among other iPhones? How many conversations can we daisy chain before we bring down Cingular's network?

ebaydan777

01-11-2007, 10:11 PM

haha i think u can only merge 2 calls together...but maybe im wrong

solipsism

01-11-2007, 10:18 PM

haha i think u can only merge 2 calls together...but maybe im wrong

Per phone, but the second caller would only have one outgoing call so if he got another call he could merge them like Jobs did with his incoming call.

a_greer

01-11-2007, 10:34 PM

Is Windows Mobile really closed? I knew a couple people that programmed for it using the regular Visual Studio bundle, no secret society, no hazing, nothing special.

As I said they SELL THE IDE...it is called VS2005, in the high end package, it has a mobile dev tool.

Closed, the way that I read it here, and in the way that Palm, Windows Mobile and Blackberry are closed, means that there will be no open sister project, no Darwin Mobile...that is perfectly understandable, you cant have people f---ing with the firmware that drives their new $600 toy that they pay $$$/Mo for and has to stay within certin FCC regulations...(Example: Apple does not want someone to mod the firmware to triple the signal output, thus violating FCC policy and making the device illegal.)

JeffDM

01-11-2007, 10:54 PM

As I said they SELL THE IDE...it is called VS2005, in the high end package, it has a mobile dev tool.

Closed, the way that I read it here, means that there will be no open sister project, no Darwin Mobile...that is perfectly understandable, you cant have people f---ing with the firmware that drives their new $600 toy that they pay $$$/Mo for and has to stay within certin FCC regulations...(Example: Apple does not want someone to mod the firmware to triple the signal output, thus violating FCC policy and making the device illegal.)

OK, then I guess you have a very different definition then. I see "closed" as in you have to get the device maker's permission to even get the software on the device period, assuming they let anyone near it, and assuming they do, pay said maker for every copy sold after signing some self-flaggelating contract.

That's too common and I would not be at all surprised to see Apple do that. For example, there is no authorized SDK available for iPods at any price that I'm aware of, and they may very well continue that particular legacy. Frankly, I really don't think Newsweek had a situation like OpenDarwin in mind when asking about the openness of the platform. At any rate, we'll have to wait for some sort of clarification.

auxio

01-11-2007, 11:01 PM

i agree with everything you have said auxio, except that last part, i guess Job's said it will be closed app on newsweekoh, ok, i didn't know that. i guess he wants to try and keep the interface as elegant as possible. however, i'm of the opinion that if people really want to clutter their phone up with extra apps, you should let them. just don't allow the apps to be integrated into the main workings of the phone (ie. making the phone unstable).
but he did say that widgets will become the future of apps and most things should be created on widgetsi hope he's talking about the phone and not Mac OS X in general.

from my perspective, widgets are just glorified web applications, and not every app in the world fits well through the web browser orifice... err... interface. :lol:
and he also said that if third parties did want to create products, they would have to go through apple and have permission along with a Q&A time about the software...at least everything will be clean and not buggy on the phone, my Dash has a lot of things i put on myself and the phone now works half the time..kind of sucksthat sucks (the part about having to work with Apple). can't they just make the environment in which 3rd party apps/widgets run protected so that the apps can't possibly mess up the main workings of the phone? and if developers need to integrate their apps more tightly with the phone hardware or OS, then they'll need to contact Apple about it?

i mean, consider if people want to develop games and such. most phone OSes nowadays just force them to use Java or a similar type of sandbox. if it's shoddily written, then it'll simply defecate in it's own sandbox and not affect anything else on the system.

that's the way to go IMO. it's strange that Apple isn't going in that direction. maybe the dev environment isn't ready yet?

JeffDM

01-11-2007, 11:27 PM

from my perspective, widgets are just glorified web applications, and not every app in the world fits well through the web browser orifice... err... interface.

Ick. Widgets have their place, though I wish they were easier to kill and start up, for being the biggest waste of RAM I've seen for offering so little functionality per widget, from first or third party. Given the device involved, widget-type software probably should be more prominent, but I just don't see them as a universal substitute for an app.

that's the way to go IMO. it's strange that Apple isn't going in that direction. maybe the dev environment isn't ready yet?

I'm hoping it's this, but I'm not feeling optimistic that it will happen.

ebaydan777

01-11-2007, 11:55 PM

I read an article by NYTimes just now, the editor handled the phone for about an hour asked lots of questions. Apple told them that the software is not ready at all there is much more to be added until release day, so im going to guess a lot more features that we could fathom will be on the iPhone. I beleive more is to come on these phones software-wise and even after launch date i think a lot of surprises will pop up that will magically let you place on your phone through itunes, and through updates through mac (kind of like how your computer and its applications check for updates daily). Gonna be great times for Apple

gregmightdothat

01-12-2007, 03:17 AM

Ick. Widgets have their place, though I wish they were easier to kill and start up, for being the biggest waste of RAM I've seen for offering so little functionality per widget, from first or third party.
Widgets take up like 1 or 2 MB RAM each. What a waste :/

elehcdn

01-12-2007, 03:33 AM

My concern is over battery life. Some of you have mentioned that 4GGB/8GB on the iPhone was necessitated by the need to use the less power-hungry flash drives as in the Nano.
So, the question is, why am I getting only the equivalent of my spinning HD-based battery life on a flash-based product? Is it perhaps that Apple is finally being honest on this issue? What else is sucking up all the extra battery life on the iPhone?

WiFi and Bluetooth suck a lot of power. Also, when the cell phone radio is in operation and talking to the towers, it also sucks a lot of power. Most current cell phones can remain in standby mode for days, but continous talk time is usually in the 5 to 8 hour range.

elehcdn

01-12-2007, 03:36 AM

Is Windows Mobile really closed? I knew a couple people that programmed for it using the regular Visual Studio bundle, no secret society, no hazing, nothing special.

Considering that the iPod now supports games made by other developers, I don't think that the iPhone will be totally closed. However, if this article about developing iPod games is relatively accurate, Apple doesn't necessarily make it easy for developers for their embedded OSes.
http://www.macworld.com/news/2006/09/21/macgamesipod/index.php

lfmorrison

01-12-2007, 07:26 AM

As I said they SELL THE IDE...it is called VS2005, in the high end package, it has a mobile dev tool.

Windows Mobile allows any binary compiled for the WinCE API to run natively on it. As far as I know, only the official Visual Studio releases allow access to it. But if you have the correct headers and start-up code, I don't see why you couldn't compile stuff for it using arm-gcc.

It also supports the .NET Compact Framework. This is a subset of the .NET framework used on regular Windows machines as a "managed" alternative to the Win32 API, and it's somewhat akin to Java in that it's intermediately compiled to a machine-independent bytecode. The .NET runtime's CLR recompiles it just-in-time to the native instruction set and provides access to a standardized API. In that way, it's somewhat akin to Java except the just-in-time native code is cached for faster runtimes in subsequent runs, and it's somewhat akin to Rosetta on Mac OS X, except that .NET's bytecode will not run natively on any of the supported machines.

Any development suite which allows writing programming of .NET applications could theoretically be used to develop applications which will run on both Windows Mobile and "regular" Windows with a single bytecode, as long as you limit yourself to linking against classes which exist in the Compact Framework. Since the Compact Framework and associated headers are freely downloadable from Microsoft's website, verifying this limitation isn't a problem.

There are several freely-available SDKs available which allow you to develop .NET applications, and most of them are not as inflexible as Microsoft's free offering, Visual Studio Express 2005. (IIRC, Visual Studio Express adds artificial restrictions which would prevent you from linking against the .NET Compact framework.) SharpDevelop, for example, doesn't have that restriction. However, there are still some Do-It-Yourself steps required before you can get things fully working.

a_greer

01-12-2007, 08:38 AM

OK, then I guess you have a very different definition then. I see "closed" as in you have to get the device maker's permission to even get the software on the device period, assuming they let anyone near it, and assuming they do, pay said maker for every copy sold after signing some self-flaggelating contract.

That's too common and I would not be at all surprised to see Apple do that. For example, there is no authorized SDK available for iPods at any price that I'm aware of, and they may very well continue that particular legacy. Frankly, I really don't think Newsweek had a situation like OpenDarwin in mind when asking about the openness of the platform. At any rate, we'll have to wait for some sort of clarification.

there is no SDK for the Dell/Creative/brand-x mp3 player, afaik, there is no SDK for Zune...but a smartphone is soooo much more...it is kindof pointless without 3rd party apps...imagine, no pith helmet for Safari, no in-house tools for big companies (think an inventory database viewer/searcher for the supply manager at a factory), no Delicious Library tool, no chance to use the wifi functionality to integrate into home automation...

MP3-players by nature are not connected...this is a connected device, no way to make 3rd party apps means I (and MANY other Apple fans who are not koolaid drinkers) will not buy one because I can live with my razer and $500 in my pocket.

Apple said that there would be no iPhone for years, Apple said No video ipod...Apple said no iPod for windows, Apple said NO fuullscreen without QT Pro, then put full screen in iTunes...Apple lies through their teeth, particularly when the devices in question have yet to ship...

Like I said...WWDC One more thing...

digitalclips

01-12-2007, 08:56 AM

I apologize if this has been brought up earlier ... but I bet this is the first of several new iPods, this one happens to be the one with phone and internet... surely there is also a 'iPod Video Wide Screen' $199-299 depending on HD just around the corner too? Or is Steve worried it would slow sales of iPhone?

Here is another tangential comment... I am sick to death of non www compliant web sites (Realtor MLS systems are prime examples of Active X maniacs). Maybe in a few years if iPhones + Safari are as ubiquitous as iPods are now it may force the end to Mac marginalization (is that a word?). OK just a hope :)

digitalclips

01-12-2007, 08:58 AM

there is no SDK for the Dell/Creative/brand-x mp3 player, afaik, there is no SDK for Zune...but a smartphone is soooo much more...it is kindof pointless without 3rd party apps...imagine, no pith helmet for Safari, no in-house tools for big companies (think an inventory database viewer/searcher for the supply manager at a factory), no Delicious Library tool, no chance to use the wifi functionality to integrate into home automation...

MP3-players by nature are not connected...this is a connected device, no way to make 3rd party apps means I (and MANY other Apple fans who are not koolaid drinkers) will not buy one because I can live with my razer and $500 in my pocket.

Apple said that there would be no iPhone for years, Apple said No video ipod...Apple said no iPod for windows, Apple said NO fuullscreen without QT Pro, then put full screen in iTunes...Apple lies through their teeth, particularly when the devices in question have yet to ship...

Like I said...WWDC One more thing...

I can't wait for WWDC!

Yes, "NO" in SJ lingo means "NO...t yet" ;)

solipsism

01-12-2007, 10:07 AM

I think Apple will sell iPhone widgets on iTunes for $.99. The time it takes to make a quality widget, compared with the 100s of thousands (if not millions) of customers who will buy them, makes them the first thing on iTunes that Apple will really make a huge profit from.

Sure, we kow they are at least breaking operating in the black with iTunes, buy tiny Java app that is only a few Kilobytes to DL and takes only a couple hours to create something that will be pure profit.

For instance, If I were traveling, which I do several times a year, I'd pay a small fee to have the Flight Tracker and Translator widgets on my iPhone. Something like the Unit Convertor isn't something I need much, except for currency comparison, but I'd still even pay a small fee for that, too.

SpamSandwich

01-12-2007, 11:57 AM

I hope it has a way to record phone conversations. I know many softphones have this feature, but does any current smartphone have this feature?

As far as I know, that would be illegal, unless you notify the other party every time you spoke to them and recorded it.

solipsism

01-12-2007, 12:08 PM

As far as I know, that would be illegal, unless you notify the other party every time you spoke to them and recorded it.

Not true. Recorded calls aren't admissible in a court of law in US if the party was not made aware, but there is no law saying that you can't record a conversation for your own benefit.

SpamSandwich

01-12-2007, 01:22 PM

Not true. Recorded calls aren't admissible in a court of law in US if the party was not made aware, but there is no law saying that you can't record a conversation for your own benefit.

Thanks for the clarification.

BlackSummerNight

01-12-2007, 04:05 PM

Funny thing. Here, cingular don't lock their phones. I have a Motorola MPx220 smartphone and my brother has some type of T-mobile smartphone. We changed sim cards, my phone worked with his sim, but his phone didn't work with my sim. Question is, why would apple give a shit about the phone being unlocked.

ebaydan777

01-12-2007, 04:12 PM

because they dont want people coming to them with problems because nothing works and because it wont work, haha the phone is not unlockable it has hardware that detects it from being unlocked and will not allow you to use the ipod or any of the features, u wont be able to get passed the warning it will probably show

BlackSummerNight

01-12-2007, 04:22 PM

Didn't a law just pass where all phones must be unlockable.
because they dont want people coming to them with problems because nothing works and because it wont work, haha the phone is not unlockable it has hardware that detects it from being unlocked and will not allow you to use the ipod or any of the features, u wont be able to get passed the warning it will probably show

TenoBell

01-12-2007, 05:26 PM

I think Apple will sell iPhone widgets on iTunes for $.99.

I hope not. It sets a bad president. The widget platform should remain free.

SpamSandwich

01-12-2007, 07:10 PM

I hope not. It sets a bad president. The widget platform should remain free.

Bad president, bad president!...woof!

Bad presidents set a bad precedent, also. :lol:

Amorya

01-12-2007, 09:29 PM

If it's based on Mac OS, then I'm sure that Apple will be happy to provide developer tools for it once it's released. After all, the more cool applications/widgets/etc which are developed for the phone, the more phones they'll sell. I can't see why they'd keep it as a closed development environment after it's been released to the public.

That's what makes logical sense, but as it happens they've already said they won't do that.

Amorya

Amorya

01-12-2007, 09:32 PM

I wonder if you can just just keep converging calls among other iPhones? How many conversations can we daisy chain before we bring down Cingular's network?

Merging calls isn't an iPhone only feature. Any crappy Nokia will do it.

(My record is six, as it happens, before Orange lost track.)

Amorya

TenoBell

01-12-2007, 10:03 PM

That's what makes logical sense, but as it happens they've already said they won't do that.

Just like Jobs said video is unnecessary on the iPod and Apple would not make iPods with flash drives.

There really is no telling what they will do.

ebaydan777

01-12-2007, 10:06 PM

Didn't a law just pass where all phones must be unlockable.

no no one has to unlock any phone, they just have to have the ability to port the numbers, and for that you have to check on too, but who knows

BlackSummerNight

01-13-2007, 12:43 AM

Ok this is the new law i'm talking about. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/293875_unlock28.html They don't have to unlock it for you, but if you decide to unlock it, you're not breaking any type of laws. I wonder how Apple will get around this.
no no one has to unlock any phone, they just have to have the ability to port the numbers, and for that you have to check on too, but who knows

ebaydan777

01-13-2007, 01:33 AM

oh ya theres no law against unlocking phones, companies do it all the time and if you know how you can...problem is apple implemented things that wont allow this, i guess as soon as the phone acknowledges your not on cingular you cant even get to the ipod or any other functions...and i heard steve said theres no way to bypass this..but then again theyres some crazy hackers

BlackSummerNight

01-13-2007, 08:50 AM

But wouldn't that be illegal?
oh ya theres no law against unlocking phones, companies do it all the time and if you know how you can...problem is apple implemented things that wont allow this, i guess as soon as the phone acknowledges your not on cingular you cant even get to the ipod or any other functions...and i heard steve said theres no way to bypass this..but then again theyres some crazy hackers
If they do it this way, then big thumbs down for Apple. It may change before release. I don't care either way since I'm a happy Cingular customer whose contract is up in July.

Xool

01-13-2007, 01:54 PM

The iPhone browser reminded me of Opera for Wii, only Safari on iPhone is done better.

Regarding custom apps, since widgets are already somewhat limited I'd expect Apple to permit 3rd party widgets or perhaps 3rd party widgets that conform to a limited iPhone widget SDK. That said, the easiest way to get an app on the phone is via the browser. Do an AJAX web app and gear it for the iPhone's screen (so no zooming is needed) and you're made.

damiansipko

01-17-2007, 10:47 PM

Yeah, cingular is not great. But the reason Apple went with them is because they suck so bad --Steve Jobs can strong-arm them to change their entire networks to fit his phone, and they are bending over and doing it else go out of business. Once the money pours into cingular, expect their infrastructure to grow fast. 3G, etc, will come quickly. I have no worries about the new Cingular.

Customer service bad? When SJ hears about it, he will get on his iPhone and straighten Cingular out, fast!

That's my fervent prayer. As a Verizon Wireless customer, I know switching carriers will result in poorer reception. However, that's something I'm willing to accept for this phone.