Apple and Google working on "many more" projects [Archive]

AppleInsider

03-05-2007, 04:12 PM

Google chief executive Eric Schmidt said Monday that Google and Apple are continuing to collaborate on many new initiatives.

Schmidt made the comments at the Morgan Stanley Technology Conference in San Francisco while responding to a question concerning rumors that the two firms were working on a tablet-style personal computer.

Without commenting specifically on the rumor, Schmidt reportedly said Google and Apple are "doing more and more things together."

"We have similar goals, similar competitors," he added.

Thus far, Apple has integrated Google's geographical mapping service into its upcoming iPhone hand set. Rumors have also suggested that Google's technology will play an increasing role in the Mac maker's upcoming Leopard operating system release.

Schmidt, in addition to his role atop Google's executive hierarchy, is also a member of Apple's board of directors. [ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2547)

[ Digg this story ] (http://digg.com/apple/Apple_and_Google_working_on_many_more_projects)

SpamSandwich

03-05-2007, 04:18 PM

Confirmed! :D

Google will remain platform agnostic, however... I wouldn't get too excited over this, unless they start swapping stock.

caribbean_mac

03-05-2007, 04:20 PM

lOOK OUT M$
HERE COMES TROUBLE FROM "GOMAC".
YUMMM MORE GREAT GOOD STUFF I LIKE WHEN THIGNS WORK OUT BETWWEN BIG COMP LIKE GOOGLE AND APPLE.

tundraboy

03-05-2007, 04:21 PM

MacGoo sounds niftier than GoMac.

wealjays

03-05-2007, 04:27 PM

Googintosh?

trevorlsciact

03-05-2007, 04:38 PM

Googintosh?
defiantly

Banalltv

03-05-2007, 04:41 PM

Goople.

ps, praise the Lord, native Painter X, native PS CS3, like having a pencil sharp again.

SpamSandwich

03-05-2007, 04:41 PM

Google will likely duplicate any developments with Apple on other platforms. I'm not on the edge of my seat...yet.

Ireland

03-05-2007, 04:45 PM

AppleGoo it's delicious.

Caribou Killa

03-05-2007, 04:50 PM

This sort of bonding really warms the technological part of my heart. Especially because it means Microsoft will be sweating a little bit more.

EruIthildur

03-05-2007, 04:51 PM

hmurchison

03-05-2007, 05:23 PM

If this alliance became more secure, there could be some issues for M$. Google is ahead in the internet world, and Apple offers the better home products. Maybe with Leopard the Enterprise featureset will be stepped up.

We run Apples in our small office, but we virtualize windows, I find it better than using straight PCs and MS.... I have all of our filesharing and users centralized on the XServe which also runs Windows via Parallels. Weeks since I have done more than back-ups.... And I just put it up a month or two back without prior server experience.

I'm thinking about something similar for my mother's Law Firm. I'd like to got OS X Server (Leopard) for mail/calendar and general File/Print but I'll need Office 2007 and Amicus Attorney in Windows. Can you just elaborate a bit more on the breakdown of what you run virtualized and what's native to Macintosh? PM me if you feel this is too off topic.

I think Apple getting cozy with Google is a great thing. They have a common competitor in Microsoft. I'd love to have better linkage from iPhoto to Picasaweb. I'd like to have iCal and Google Calendar able to sync with ease. I'd love to have Apple mail and gmail support each other in some significant ways. It's really a win/win solution for both companies. They both pride themselves on creating cool stuff.

BlackSummerNight

03-05-2007, 05:32 PM

What cool things have google created? I don't see why everyone is in love with google.
I'm thinking about something similar for my mother's Law Firm. I'd like to got OS X Server (Leopard) for mail/calendar and general File/Print but I'll need Office 2007 and Amicus Attorney in Windows. Can you just elaborate a bit more on the breakdown of what you run virtualized and what's native to Macintosh? PM me if you feel this is too off topic.

I think Apple getting cozy with Google is a great thing. They have a common competitor in Microsoft. I'd love to have better linkage from iPhoto to Picasaweb. I'd like to have iCal and Google Calendar able to sync with ease. I'd love to have Apple mail and gmail support each other in some significant ways. It's really a win/win solution for both companies. They both pride themselves on creating cool stuff.

hmurchison

03-05-2007, 05:43 PM

What cool things have google created? I don't see why everyone is in love with google.

Gmail is my preferred web calendar and it links with Google Calendar. If someone sends me an email about a party it does a fairly decent job of adding it to my calendar with little effort.

Picasa (although they've purchased this program) is honestly my favorite photo management application.

I routinely use Google Maps even moreso than Mapquest now and I use Google web search for movies a I simply type the name of the movie and my zip code and I get showtimes.

Google doesn't have Apple's flair and panache but they do have pretty good ideas that sometimes turn into decent products. More importantly Google is attempting to offer web based document creation and Apple can and should tie into this rather than attempt to create their own.

SpamSandwich

03-05-2007, 05:46 PM

Gmail is my preferred web calendar and it links with Google Calendar. If someone sends me an email about a party it does a fairly decent job of adding it to my calendar with little effort.

Picasa (although they've purchased this program) is honestly my favorite photo management application.

I routinely use Google Maps even moreso than Mapquest now and I use Google web search for movies a I simply type the name of the movie and my zip code and I get showtimes.

Google doesn't have Apple's flair and panache but they do have pretty good ideas that sometimes turn into decent products. More importantly Google is attempting to offer web based document creation and Apple can and should tie into this rather than attempt to create their own.

...don't forget, they've purchased some good companies also... SketchUp, anyone? :smokey:

Slewis

03-05-2007, 05:59 PM

What cool things have google created? I don't see why everyone is in love with google.
The Google Search Engine
Google Co-op
Gmail
Google Talk
Picasa 2
Google Earth
etc.

Sebastian

hmurchison

03-05-2007, 06:09 PM

...don't forget, they've purchased some good companies also... SketchUp, anyone? :smokey:

Oh yes. I'm just waiting for the Intel UB version to hit and I'll dabble with it. Forgot about that..thanks.

Sebastian thanks for the fill in. I haven't allowed myself to get addicted to Google Earth but I will.

karbon

03-05-2007, 06:09 PM

The Google Search Engine
Google Co-op
Gmail
Google Talk
Picasa 2
Google Earth
etc.

Sebastian

So, Picasa was created by Google? Nope, it was bought. Google Earth? Nope, bought as well. Gmail? Nope, it was based on a previous AJAX application.

So what are all those alleged PhD's doing at Google? I don't know, maybe bouncing their exercise balls?

But seriously, the search engine is great, but don't give them a lot of credit for "inventing" whatever they have acquired. It is what Microsoft has been doing for years...

ricksbrain

03-05-2007, 06:17 PM

Wow, karbon. Welcome to the forums. Cranky first post, I must say...

GregAlexander

03-05-2007, 06:29 PM

So what are all those alleged PhD's doing at Google? I don't know, maybe bouncing their exercise balls?

But seriously, the search engine is great, but don't give them a lot of credit for "inventing" whatever they have acquired. It is what Microsoft has been doing for years...

For Apple, the potential advantages in a close Google relationship could include things like
- Integrated email system (choose your own, or Google with ads, or pay for .Mac )
- Integrated calendaring (including better perception of an MS competitor for calendaring)
- Integrated mapping (as we know)
- Merging a youTube client into iTunes (iTube/YouTunes) - Google does the free (advertising-supported) stuff, Apple sells shows
- General integration of advertising (hopefully optional!) into Apple's model, making software free rather than paid for.

I'd also hope for an online storage model... though I'd rather see Apple work with existing offerings to encourage competition.

ps. I'm not sure, but the advertising link may be the most important. Like it or not, in the IPTV world we need a model for advertising that works - to make the advertisers happy AND allow for free ('sponsored') entertainment. This might be done badly (popups annoy me both on websites & at the bottom left of a TV show), or well (how about 1 ad instead of 5, but have that ad customised to me personally (not just my demographic) and stop me skipping it?)

Slewis

03-05-2007, 06:33 PM

Slewis

03-05-2007, 06:39 PM

For Apple, the potential advantages in a close Google relationship could include things like
- Integrated email system (choose your own, or Google with ads, or pay for .Mac )
- Integrated calendaring (including better perception of an MS competitor for calendaring)
- Integrated mapping (as we know)
- Merging a youTube client into iTunes (iTube/YouTunes) - Google does the free (advertising-supported) stuff, Apple sells shows
- General integration of advertising (hopefully optional!) into Apple's model, making software free rather than paid for.

I'd also hope for an online storage model... though I'd rather see Apple work with existing offerings to encourage competition.

ps. I'm not sure, but the advertising link may be the most important. Like it or not, in the IPTV world we need a model for advertising that works - to make the advertisers happy AND allow for free ('sponsored') entertainment. This might be done badly (popups annoy me both on websites & at the bottom left of a TV show), or well (how about 1 ad instead of 5, but have that ad customised to me personally (not just my demographic) and stop me skipping it?)
Your ideas aren't terrible, they just go against what Apple and Youtube are.

1) You can have that now, just choose Gmail, or choose to pay for .Mac.
2) YES PLEASE! Spanningsync just plain doesn't work AT ALL!
3) More Likely then not
4) Not going to Happen. Apple doesn't want Ads in iTunes, and Youtube is still independant from Google for the most part, and last I checked, Google and Youtube plan to keep it that way (which is good because the Youtube brand is very well known)
5) Never going to Happen (with Steve around) because Apple doesn't insert Ads into their software. It's either Free or you Pay for it, but there's no room for Ads.

About the IPTV thing, um... if you mean the Apple TV, all of your content comes from your computer. Either you put it there from another source, you create it, or you download it. There's no need to sponsor anything.

Sebastian

GregAlexander

03-05-2007, 06:52 PM

About the IPTV thing, um... if you mean the Apple TV, all of your content comes from your computer. Either you put it there from another source, you create it, or you download it. There's no need to sponsor anything.
Actually I meant IPTV generally - time shifted viewing, VoD (any show from any time), live sport, etc etc. Whoever can make a model that persuades existing advertisers to make the jump will own a large part of the future of TV. I think Google has a good chance at that, while Apple has a good chance at the pay-to-view model. Working together would help both.

Agreed though, that so far Apple has avoided all that, and may choose to simply continue that way.

Slewis

03-05-2007, 07:55 PM

Actually I meant IPTV generally - time shifted viewing, VoD (any show from any time), live sport, etc etc. Whoever can make a model that persuades existing advertisers to make the jump will own a large part of the future of TV. I think Google has a good chance at that, while Apple has a good chance at the pay-to-view model. Working together would help both.

Agreed though, that so far Apple has avoided all that, and may choose to simply continue that way.
Well, yes they will choose to simply stay the way they are now.

Apple knows the real money is in hardware, Software as far as they care and services like .Mac or the iTunes Store are literally just extra spice.

Sebastian

bedouin

03-05-2007, 09:43 PM

Perhaps you'll see the death of .Mac and its migration to Google.

pt123

03-05-2007, 10:22 PM

What cool things have google created? I don't see why everyone is in love with google.

Well, if we are gonna sing that tune, iTunes was purchased, so was OS X.

Slewis

03-05-2007, 10:31 PM

Perhaps you'll see the death of .Mac and its migration to Google.
Not going to happen. I'd f***ing murder Apple if they did, being a happy user of .Mac myself.

Sebastian

GregAlexander

03-05-2007, 11:18 PM

Apple knows the real money is in hardware, Software as far as they care and services like .Mac or the iTunes Store are literally just extra spice.

If Apple only wants to sell hardware, then whether they have ad supported TV or purchased TV would make no difference to them. They'd choose whichever would encourage more hardware sales. ie: Would offering ad-supported TV in ADDITION to purchased TV encourage Apple hardware sales?

Of course, it's not that simple. Apple has repeatedly said it's about the whole package. Apple makes more money on its hardware because it bundles OSX, iLife, etc...

Slewis

03-06-2007, 12:14 AM

If Apple only wants to sell hardware, then whether they have ad supported TV or purchased TV would make no difference to them. They'd choose whichever would encourage more hardware sales. ie: Would offering ad-supported TV in ADDITION to purchased TV encourage Apple hardware sales?

Of course, it's not that simple. Apple has repeatedly said it's about the whole package. Apple makes more money on its hardware because it bundles OSX, iLife, etc...
Like I said, Software and Services are just extra spice. The real money is in the hardware, this goes for OS X, iLife, iTunes, iTunes Store, .Mac, AppleCare, Pro Care, iWork, Shake, Final Cut Studio, Logic Express, etc. Apple COULD for example, sell Macs with Windows and not bother with Mac OS X, but the only problem is that it would go against their entire business model of selling the Hardware by selling the Software. Mac OS X is the main selling point of Macs so obviously that would be suicidal.

Why are FCS, Shake, iLife, and the rest of the iApps around? Because they're not going to sell their OS and through that, their Hardware if it doesn't run any type of Software at all. Why does the iTunes Store exist? Well 2 reasons, One is to keep DRM from falling into the control of Microsoft who would not bother fighting for consumer rights at all, and has even worse DRM than FairPlay. The Other is to give their computers and their Digital Media Players content to play.

An Ad Supported model probably wouldn't do as well as iTunes is doing right now, Apple is better off sticking with what they have now.

Sebastian

Rot'nApple

03-06-2007, 01:17 AM

MacGoo sounds niftier than GoMac.

Mr. Magoo:lol:

Don't forget his famous quote... "Ah Magoo, you've done it again!"

http://www.toontracker.com/magoo/magoo.htm

Rot'nApple

03-06-2007, 01:22 AM

hmurchison

03-06-2007, 02:44 AM

I'm checking out Contactizer Pro 3.x from Objective Decision right now.

The first bit of Google integration was the importation of my Gmail messages and contacts. It also pulls the Google Map location of any correct address you have input for a contact.

I could see this becoming a nice partnership with Apple supporting Google technologies and vice versa.

JeffDM

03-06-2007, 07:39 AM

So, Picasa was created by Google? Nope, it was bought. Google Earth? Nope, bought as well. Gmail? Nope, it was based on a previous AJAX application.

So what are all those alleged PhD's doing at Google? I don't know, maybe bouncing their exercise balls?

But seriously, the search engine is great, but don't give them a lot of credit for "inventing" whatever they have acquired. It is what Microsoft has been doing for years...

I think the key is "based on". They made quite a bit of changes. Gdocs has had a lot of integration work from different code bases. My understanding is that a lot of it was recoded to use Google's API, quickly too.

Google will likely duplicate any developments with Apple on other platforms. I'm not on the edge of my seat...yet.

I think it would be irresponsible of Google to not support Windows.

Well, if we are gonna sing that tune, iTunes was purchased, so was OS X.

OS X wasn't totally purchased though, and I don't think from just one source. Much of the original base is from NextStep, most of the back-end has been updated from other open source origins. Bringing all these together, as well as other parts, and make it Mac-like, isn't trivial.

wilco

03-06-2007, 10:24 AM

Wow, karbon. Welcome to the forums. Cranky first post, I must say...

Correcting misperceptions makes him cranky?

:rolleyes:

JeffDM

03-06-2007, 11:40 AM

Correcting misperceptions makes him cranky?
:rolleyes:

No, but the tone sure makes him sound cranky.

I'm not saying I'm above it either, I'm cranky at times too, but I'm just saying...

Louzer

03-06-2007, 12:30 PM

scstsut

03-06-2007, 01:39 PM

What cool things have google created? I don't see why everyone is in love with google.
Microsoft made their fortune on integrating (their only successes) Windows, Office and their Servers (Exchange, etc.). Apple has come back on the back of their integrated computers and OS X (it's like they're made for each other!), the integration of their OS X and other software (iLife, iWork, Final Cut, Aperture, etc.), and the integration of their various hardware (Macs, iPod, AppleTV, iPhone, etc.). In a couple of months their server offerings, with it's integration with everything Apple, will be ready to take on Microsoft's in the enterprise. Google is similarly building the exponential power of integration...... (http://blog.sqribbled.com/2007/03/googleosgoogleoffice.html)

Well, if we are gonna sing that tune, iTunes was purchased, so was OS X.
So, Picasa was created by Google? Nope, it was bought. Google Earth? Nope, bought as well. Gmail? Nope, it was based on a previous AJAX application.
So what are all those alleged PhD's doing at Google? I don't know, maybe bouncing their exercise balls?
But seriously, the search engine is great, but don't give them a lot of credit for "inventing" whatever they have acquired. It is what Microsoft has been doing for years...
Apples offerings, many of which come from acquisitions that they then built on and perfected (NeXT/OS X, Final Cut, DVDStudio, Shake...), Google is acquiring pieces (Writely, Blogger, YouTube...) to build on and perfect. And you're right. Microsoft built MSDos from a clone of CP/M.

What Apple has done in the past ten years would never have happened if they'd tried to bake everything from scratch. They took a lot of open source software and aquisitions but the big deal is that they made great software out of the building blocks that were available to them. Without Apple's software from Final Cut Pro to iLife, Apple would have disappeared...... (http://blog.sqribbled.com/2007/03/googleosgoogleoffice.html)

melgross

03-06-2007, 01:49 PM

defiantly

Defiantly?

Or definitely?

melgross

03-06-2007, 01:55 PM

Well, yes they will choose to simply stay the way they are now.

Apple knows the real money is in hardware, Software as far as they care and services like .Mac or the iTunes Store are literally just extra spice.

Sebastian

The cash flow is in hardware, but the profits are in software, and services.

By software, I don't mean Tunes.

melgross

03-06-2007, 02:00 PM

Why does the iTunes Store exist? Well 2 reasons, One is to keep DRM from falling into the control of Microsoft who would not bother fighting for consumer rights at all, and has even worse DRM than FairPlay.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that Apple is fighting for consumer rights. They are not. They are fighting for their own rights.

An Ad Supported model probably wouldn't do as well as iTunes is doing right now, Apple is better off sticking with what they have now.

Sebastian

We don't know how well it would work if Apple does it, because Apple isn't doing it.

But, that doesn't mean that Apple won't do a form of it in the future. Apple is doing things they formally said they wouldn't do.

Louzer

03-06-2007, 02:04 PM

Apples offerings, many of which come from acquisitions that they then built on and perfected (NeXT/OS X, Final Cut, DVDStudio, Shake...), Google is acquiring pieces (Writely, Blogger, YouTube...) to build on and perfect. And you're right. Microsoft built MSDos from a clone of CP/M.

Hey! Where did you get the perfected copy of OS X?? And how do I go about getting it????

melgross

03-06-2007, 02:05 PM

OS X wasn't totally purchased though, and I don't think from just one source. Much of the original base is from NextStep, most of the back-end has been updated from other open source origins. Bringing all these together, as well as other parts, and make it Mac-like, isn't trivial.

The basis for OS X was purchased from Next. Though the majority wasn't even original to them either, considering where IT came from. MACH is even considered to be a liability, even though Avie was one of the creators.

But, the majority of Apple's programs were bought. Apple has developed few from scratch.

I don't think that's an issue for either company though.

It's not where the starting blocks come from, but what is done with them in the right hands.

melgross

03-06-2007, 02:07 PM

Correcting misperceptions makes him cranky?

:rolleyes:

Also, not reading several posts before does. Part of what he complained about had already been mentioned.

melgross

03-06-2007, 02:10 PM

Hey, maybe this whole Google joining was brought out when Jobs pulled his "secret features" comment out of his ass last year, needed some help coming up with something worthy of the comment, couldn't come up with any good ideas on his own and teamed up with Google to see if they could come up with something interesting.

Oh, and don't forget, iMovie and GarageBand were bought by Apple as well! And they basically stole the ideas for Dashboard and Sherlock. And I think they've kind of ripped off Microsoft's idea of delayed OS releases....

Dashboard's questionable. Sherlock is an odd issue.

It was original to Apple. Then it was copied, and enhanced. Apple then enhanced it more themselves, and was accused of copying from the company that copied from Apple.

TenoBell

03-06-2007, 03:04 PM

And they basically stole the ideas for Dashboard and Sherlock.

How do you steal an idea in the software world? Because someone does something first mean that no one else is allowed to create something similar? Is that how advancement and competition come about?

Because Avid was first, were Premiere and Final Cut Pro a stolen idea?

superkaratemonkeydeathcar

03-06-2007, 03:12 PM

Slewis

03-06-2007, 03:57 PM

I think the key is "based on". They made quite a bit of changes. Gdocs has had a lot of integration work from different code bases. My understanding is that a lot of it was recoded to use Google's API, quickly too.

I think it would be irresponsible of Google to not support Windows.

OS X wasn't totally purchased though, and I don't think from just one source. Much of the original base is from NextStep, most of the back-end has been updated from other open source origins. Bringing all these together, as well as other parts, and make it Mac-like, isn't trivial.
It's based off of NeXTstep, originally positioned as Yellow Box using the OpenStep code base (which itself was an Open Source NeXTstep) and when all else failed, later redesigned to fell "Mac Like" (what was Mac OS at the time) and called Mac OS X.

It's hard to call it bought though, because by the time Mac OS X came around Steve Jobs was already CEO... but he did ask Gil to buy his company so he could return to Apple.... oh well I'll leave it at that.

Sebastian

Slewis

03-06-2007, 04:01 PM

Hey, maybe this whole Google joining was brought out when Jobs pulled his "secret features" comment out of his ass last year, needed some help coming up with something worthy of the comment, couldn't come up with any good ideas on his own and teamed up with Google to see if they could come up with something interesting.

Oh, and don't forget, iMovie and GarageBand were bought by Apple as well! And they basically stole the ideas for Dashboard and Sherlock. And I think they've kind of ripped off Microsoft's idea of delayed OS releases....
Um, no. There is no way in Hell in the time of one year that Steve Jobs comes up with these "Secret Features" especially with him being a bit busy on the iPhone project and pushing iTunes 7 out the door at the same time only to throw Google in.

And how did they rip off Microsoft's idea of a delayed OS release? It's not even Spring and already everyone thinks it's not coming out till Summer, and that idea is based off of Developer Builds, AKA, not Betas.

Sebastian

Slewis

03-06-2007, 04:09 PM

Don't make the mistake of thinking that Apple is fighting for consumer rights. They are not. They are fighting for their own rights.

We don't know how well it would work if Apple does it, because Apple isn't doing it.

But, that doesn't mean that Apple won't do a form of it in the future. Apple is doing things they formally said they wouldn't do.
You're right they are fighting for their own rights (http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/2A351C60-A4E5-4764-A083-FF8610E66A46.html), and through that, they just happen to be fighting for consumer rights. Microsoft on the other hand wouldn't mind throwing the entire Windows Vista team behind Windows Media DRM if it meant they could make Janus the top dog again.

A show of hands of who likes all the commercials when they are in the middle of watching TV? I know I'm not one of them, and that's why I canceled Cable. I now just buy DVDs or off of iTunes.

Sebastian

Slewis

03-06-2007, 04:10 PM

Hey! Where did you get the perfected copy of OS X?? And how do I go about getting it????
OK, here's what you do. If you have a Mac already, you're done. If you don't, run down to the Apple store and buy one.

Sebastian

melgross

03-07-2007, 01:35 AM

You're right they are fighting for their own rights (http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/2A351C60-A4E5-4764-A083-FF8610E66A46.html), and through that, they just happen to be fighting for consumer rights. Microsoft on the other hand wouldn't mind throwing the entire Windows Vista team behind Windows Media DRM if it meant they could make Janus the top dog again.

A show of hands of who likes all the commercials when they are in the middle of watching TV? I know I'm not one of them, and that's why I canceled Cable. I now just buy DVDs or off of iTunes.

Sebastian

No one like commercials. Well, I do like some of them. Occasionally, they are better than the best shows. But, that's another story.

But, it does allow you to watch content for free, if you still have an antenna.

I see no reason why a mix of paid for programming, and free, with commercils, programming, wouldn't work.

Ther idae of just paying for what you want to see isn't as good an idea as some think it is. I see highly unrealistic price comparisons between paying for a years worth of shows that someone writing an article want to see, and paying for, and the price of cable, with those same shows.

It always seems to be much cheaper just paying for those shows.

For those people it may be. But, what they are ignoring, is that Americans watch an average of four and a half hours of Tv a day.

That means that most people are watching far more than the three or four shows plus some news, movies, and some sports, that these writers assume. In fact, it seems that most people watch a couple of dozen seasonal shows PLUS the afore mentioned movies, news, and sports.

And how does one watch new shows without paying for them as well? How will you know if you will want to watch that new show without seeing a couple of episodes that you will now have to pay for as well?

I think that this might turn out to be even more expensive than subscribing to cable. Advertizing would help. People could watch things they wouldn't want to buy, and could try out new shows, specials, news, and realtime sporting events that have ads anyway, without having to pay for them.

RolandG

03-07-2007, 02:09 AM

I wonder why no one talks about Google's Docs & Spreadsheets (https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=writely&passive=true&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2F&ltmpl=WR_tmp_2_lfty&nui=1&utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-et-more&utm_medium=more) online applications.

This could be a real breakthrough in the office applications space: Collaborating online (and in Google's case even platform agnostic). MS is adding online features to office, too, with OfficeLive and it's server product's SharePoint services. Something Apple's productivity offerings are completely lacking.

Not to mention the lack of a real group calender server.

Slewis

03-07-2007, 02:40 PM

No one like commercials. Well, I do like some of them. Occasionally, they are better than the best shows. But, that's another story.

But, it does allow you to watch content for free, if you still have an antenna.

I see no reason why a mix of paid for programming, and free, with commercils, programming, wouldn't work.

Ther idae of just paying for what you want to see isn't as good an idea as some think it is. I see highly unrealistic price comparisons between paying for a years worth of shows that someone writing an article want to see, and paying for, and the price of cable, with those same shows.

It always seems to be much cheaper just paying for those shows.

For those people it may be. But, what they are ignoring, is that Americans watch an average of four and a half hours of Tv a day.

That means that most people are watching far more than the three or four shows plus some news, movies, and some sports, that these writers assume. In fact, it seems that most people watch a couple of dozen seasonal shows PLUS the afore mentioned movies, news, and sports.

And how does one watch new shows without paying for them as well? How will you know if you will want to watch that new show without seeing a couple of episodes that you will now have to pay for as well?

I think that this might turn out to be even more expensive than subscribing to cable. Advertizing would help. People could watch things they wouldn't want to buy, and could try out new shows, specials, news, and realtime sporting events that have ads anyway, without having to pay for them.
How will people know? Apple is always offering a free download of one show or another, and you can still preview any episode for 30 seconds. Most news sites offer Podcasts with their own Advertising now, and iTunes offers Movies, TV shows, and even Sports Highlights these days.

We're also getting ahead of ourselves here, because the Apple TV was never meant to replace Cable. It takes the content you have and plays it. Nothing more and nothing less.

Sebastian

Louzer

03-07-2007, 03:05 PM

OK, here's what you do. If you have a Mac already, you're done. If you don't, run down to the Apple store and buy one.

Sebastian

haha, funny. But seriously, I'm running OS X.4 and have issues with several areas. Hell, I'd just like to have my finder settings set for good (WTF is wrong with turning on "calculate all sizes" that OS X keeps turning it off!")

Really, I want your perfected copy. Can you post it somewhere???

Slewis

03-07-2007, 10:01 PM

haha, funny. But seriously, I'm running OS X.4 and have issues with several areas. Hell, I'd just like to have my finder settings set for good (WTF is wrong with turning on "calculate all sizes" that OS X keeps turning it off!")

Really, I want your perfected copy. Can you post it somewhere???
The Finder... I do not know this Finder of yours. You must be talking about something else. (psst, click here (http://www.cocoatech.com/pf4/) and all your troubles will disappear)

Sebastian

melgross

03-07-2007, 11:19 PM

How will people know? Apple is always offering a free download of one show or another, and you can still preview any episode for 30 seconds. Most news sites offer Podcasts with their own Advertising now, and iTunes offers Movies, TV shows, and even Sports Highlights these days.

We're also getting ahead of ourselves here, because the Apple TV was never meant to replace Cable. It takes the content you have and plays it. Nothing more and nothing less.

Sebastian

That may help, but not always. And a free 30 seconds. Ooh! That really lets you know how a show is going to be. 30 seconds isn't even enough to let you know if a 3 minute song is desirable.

No, that doesn't cut it.

What you are claiming doesn't seem to be the consensus that most writers seem to have about Apple's plans.

But, we'll see.

JeffDM

03-07-2007, 11:34 PM

We're also getting ahead of ourselves here, because the Apple TV was never meant to replace Cable. It takes the content you have and plays it. Nothing more and nothing less.

That's the way it looks now, but I think that statement ignores the possibility that there is a greater product strategy that might involve this. I don't think any of us are good at forecasting Apple's future strategy to that extent. What I can say is that any tech company must plan a couple product generations ahead to stay alive, so a feature they said they'll never have may be implemented somewhere, ready to go when needed. When more pieces fall into place, then they can unveil new features, new products and new services if that is what they choose to do.

Slewis

03-07-2007, 11:55 PM

That may help, but not always. And a free 30 seconds. Ooh! That really lets you know how a show is going to be. 30 seconds isn't even enough to let you know if a 3 minute song is desirable.

No, that doesn't cut it.

What you are claiming doesn't seem to be the consensus that most writers seem to have about Apple's plans.

But, we'll see.
Yeah well they were suggestions. My point is there is a large number of sources for content already. iTunes, your own Content (Think Home Movies and Photos) , and yes, there are several ways to get video off of Youtube if you so choose, and I believe many on here have an EyeTV.

Like I said, it wasn't meant to replace Cable. It's a bridge between the Computer and the Home Theater and I get the feeling Apple, or more specifically, Steve, can care less about serving up content with loads of Ads. As far as he's concerned it's a question of class vs business.

Sebastian

Slewis

03-07-2007, 11:57 PM

That's the way it looks now, but I think that statement ignores the possibility that there is a greater product strategy that might involve this. I don't think any of us are good at forecasting Apple's future strategy to that extent. What I can say is that any tech company must plan a couple product generations ahead to stay alive, so a feature they said they'll never have may be implemented somewhere, ready to go when needed. When more pieces fall into place, then they can unveil new features, new products and new services if that is what they choose to do.
You're right, we don't know what Apple is working on a couple of generations down the line. They may have a road map, but as far as actual features and products are concerned, they can only take it one step at a time, this Apple TV, the one that exists Today (ok ok... March 20th) isn't meant to replace Cable.

Sebastian

melgross

03-08-2007, 12:18 AM

Yeah well they were suggestions. My point is there is a large number of sources for content already. iTunes, your own Content (Think Home Movies and Photos) , and yes, there are several ways to get video off of Youtube if you so choose, and I believe many on here have an EyeTV.

Like I said, it wasn't meant to replace Cable. It's a bridge between the Computer and the Home Theater and I get the feeling Apple, or more specifically, Steve, can care less about serving up content with loads of Ads. As far as he's concerned it's a question of class vs business.

Sebastian

We don't know if it's meant to replace cable at some point.

But TimeWarner here in NYC has hundreds of channels, and I watch programs from more than a few.

You would have to assume that Apple would have most of the hundreds of programs broadcast every day, to enable people to find just that very one they want to see. That might happen some day, but most likely, it will be with advertising. Free Tv is still on many peoples minds. Do you want to pay $14 a month to listen to the radio?

I think "class" is a byproduct of Apple making profits. If that changes, so will the "class".

We were never going to see video on a small portable device either.

Slewis

03-08-2007, 01:02 AM

We don't know if it's meant to replace cable at some point.

But TimeWarner here in NYC has hundreds of channels, and I watch programs from more than a few.

You would have to assume that Apple would have most of the hundreds of programs broadcast every day, to enable people to find just that very one they want to see. That might happen some day, but most likely, it will be with advertising. Free Tv is still on many peoples minds. Do you want to pay $14 a month to listen to the radio?

I think "class" is a byproduct of Apple making profits. If that changes, so will the "class".

We were never going to see video on a small portable device either.
When the Video looks great, why not?

One more thing, Apple isn't after being the All In One Everything Solution that Microsoft hopes to be in the Non Existent Future. They want to make great products and deliver great content, and make money off of that.

In other words, I don't see it in Apple's future. At least not the Immediate future.

Sebastian

melgross

03-08-2007, 01:12 AM

When the Video looks great, why not?

Because Jobs said that it would be a terrible experience, and that it was a very bad idea.

One more thing, Apple isn't after being the All In One Everything Solution that Microsoft hopes to be in the Non Existent Future. They want to make great products and deliver great content, and make money off of that.

In other words, I don't see it in Apple's future.

It wouldn't make them the all in everything company. It would be offering customers a choice, which is what Jobs and company keep telling us is what they are trying to do.

At least not the Immediate future.

Yes, what I said.

Psychic Shopper

03-11-2007, 04:40 PM

I could see some kind of deal where you tube videos could be watched on directly on Apple TV S
set top thingy

Slewis

03-12-2007, 05:16 AM

Because Jobs said that it would be a terrible experience, and that it was a very bad idea.
And yet it's not so bad an experience after all. They made it work and the offered ample HDD storage for it.

It wouldn't make them the all in everything company. It would be offering customers a choice, which is what Jobs and company keep telling us is what they are trying to do.
True, but they don't offer everything, and this is one of the things I still don't see Apple doing.

I could see some kind of deal where you tube videos could be watched on directly on Apple TV S
set top thingy

Youtube and Google are currently being attacked about Copyright issues on their respective sites and you're suggesting Apple would possibly strike a deal and lose the trust of the Media companies? Youtube states that they are a clip site. They offer clips, not shows or movies. So unless you're really hankering to to watch somebodies pixelated webcam videocasts on your TV, I don't see why this would happen.

Sebastian

melgross

03-12-2007, 09:34 AM

And yet it's not so bad an experience after all. They made it work and the offered ample HDD storage for it.

I'm not saying they didn't. Though, if truth be told, watching videos on a 5G iPod is not pleasant after the thrill of the first few unique experiences.

True, but they don't offer everything, and this is one of the things I still don't see Apple doing.

You might not. But to refer back to my first point, almost no one on these boards thought that Apple would come out with a video iPod either, after Jobs had made his oft quoted remarks about why Apple wouldn't be doing it. In fact, many who now see it as a good idea, were against it then.

If Apple does this, most who think it won't, and can't happen, will change their "tune" about it as well.

Slewis

03-12-2007, 09:57 AM

I'm not saying they didn't. Though, if truth be told, watching videos on a 5G iPod is not pleasant after the thrill of the first few unique experiences.

You might not. But to refer back to my first point, almost no one on these boards thought that Apple would come out with a video iPod either, after Jobs had made his oft quoted remarks about why Apple wouldn't be doing it. In fact, many who now see it as a good idea, were against it then.

If Apple does this, most who think it won't, and can't happen, will change their "tune" about it as well.
Well a Thrill and a Viewing Experience is subjective to one's opinion.

Video on the iPod however was only natural evolution, and granted all the PVPs out back then, it's safe to assume the iPod killed that market.

It's not in Apple's natural Evolution to throw in another service like that, that isn't based off the iTunes store, and one that would potentially lead to more support of FairPlay.

Sebastian

melgross

03-12-2007, 10:42 AM

Well a Thrill and a Viewing Experience is subjective to one's opinion.

Video on the iPod however was only natural evolution, and granted all the PVPs out back then, it's safe to assume the iPod killed that market.

It's not in Apple's natural Evolution to throw in another service like that, that isn't based off the iTunes store, and one that would potentially lead to more support of FairPlay.

Sebastian

It wasn't in Apple's "natural evolution" as a computer company to produce any portable music playing device, nor was the iTunes store part of Apple's natural evolution—until it became so.

Neither was a cell phone, but guess what!

Slewis

03-12-2007, 07:30 PM

It wasn't in Apple's "natural evolution" as a computer company to produce any portable music playing device, nor was the iTunes store part of Apple's natural evolution—until it became so.

Neither was a cell phone, but guess what!
No, but it was natural Evolution for the Music Playing device to also learn how to play Video, and the iTunes Store is Apple's "Great Wall of Content" for the use of defending against incompatible Janus services.

As for the Cell Phone... those things were on a crash course for convergence with the PDA years ago, that happened and Smartphones are the result. In their natural evolution, they became more like computers, and I'd call the iPhone a mini computer more then anything, no matter what the branding is.

Sebastian

melgross

03-13-2007, 12:16 AM

No, but it was natural Evolution for the Music Playing device to also learn how to play Video, and the iTunes Store is Apple's "Great Wall of Content" for the use of defending against incompatible Janus services.

As for the Cell Phone... those things were on a crash course for convergence with the PDA years ago, that happened and Smartphones are the result. In their natural evolution, they became more like computers, and I'd call the iPhone a mini computer more then anything, no matter what the branding is.

Sebastian

The fact that these thing have come about just shows that the "new" Apple is very different in thinking from the old.

Don't put anything past them.

Slewis

03-13-2007, 01:23 AM

The fact that these thing have come about just shows that the "new" Apple is very different in thinking from the old.

Don't put anything past them.
The fact that these things came about show that Apple isn't being run by idiots anymore. Newsflash, Apple quickly became irrelevant the day Steve Jobs brought John Sculley on board and the day the Pirate Flag went up over the Macintosh building. From beginning till End the Macintosh destroyed Apple because while the Apple II was a great success, just about the entire board of directors forgot it existed. Hell it was even worse when the idea of the Apple III came around, but fortunately that didn't last long.

Without the iPod, Apple would be irrelevant right now. Without NeXTstep Mac OS would've never evolved into anything more then that piece of crap System 7 (which I recently had the chance to emulate and if I had to choose between that and Windows 95.... well let's just say I'm glad I never had to)

Every other attempt Apple tried to make to branch out before hand resulted in a disasterous attempt like the Pippin or the MacintoshTV, which really hurt the company because their computer business was going downhill.

Further, if Apple doesn't continue looking for the next big thing it will be irrelevant. Introducing the iPhone and AppleTV. 2 extensions of the iPod, but one has the added bonus of being an entire product category on it's own by using a hybrid of Apple tech.

Considering we are analyzing Apple and not predicting the future, I'm putting this one past them until further notice for the following reasons:

It's not a consumer oriented package
It's not Apple (for now)
It doesn't fall in line with their current business strategy.iTunes Store is after all, not just a shield against Janus but a collection of content for Apple products so that people will actually want to use them. Their current store is doing very well, over 2 Billion songs, over 1.3 Million Movies, over 50 million TV shows, and probably a countless number of Podcasts downloaded in the iTunes Store. In addition to that:
Open 24/7, the iTunes Store features more than 3.5 million 99¢ songs, 65,000 free podcasts, 20,000 audiobooks, 200 TV shows, and now, movies and iPod games. Find, download, play, and sync in a fraction of the time it takes to drive to any superstore.
Slightly out of date because I think I saw something about the number of songs being upped to 4 Million or more already, but even so, this is the kind of content portfolio anyone would have an extremely hard time arguing with. There's no room for an extra service at the moment.

Sebastian

melgross

03-13-2007, 12:11 PM

Slightly out of date because I think I saw something about the number of songs being upped to 4 Million or more already, but even so, this is the kind of content portfolio anyone would have an extremely hard time arguing with. There's no room for an extra service at the moment.

Sebastian

It is over 4 million.

Hiro

03-14-2007, 11:03 AM

Ah, the old "Buy or Build?"

-iTunes is just the old SoundJamMP with a new skin.

Definitely Dashboard is a flat out ripoff -there should have been a lawsuit there for sure. -Christ, Apple could have BOUGHT Konfabulator for peanuts, but they decided to rip them instead! -Not their finest hour.:mad:

Do we really have to go there again? Even the Konfabulator guys used to promote their app as a modern implementation of the original Mac OS Desktop Accessories. They conveniently deleted that from their site after Dashboard was rumored to exist. Who's stealing then?

None of it is stealing, what's old is new, that's all.