Apple to build new features into iPhone, Apple TV free of charge

[AppleInsider]

Apple said Wednesday it will leverage its proven capability in the area of software development to gradually add new software features and applications to its iPhone and Apple TV products free of charge, providing its customers with the "greatest possible experience."

"We are taking this bold step to leverage what we do best," chief financial officer Peter Oppenheimer said during a conference call with analysts and members of the media. He added that some of the new iPhone applications will be "entirely new applications."

Oppenheimer offered few additional details on the two-pronged initiative, but implied that the new features and applications would be made available through automatic software updates to both iPhone and Apple TV.

In order to account for the new features, Apple said it will document iPhone and Apple TV income through a subscription based accounting model, in which income will be distributed over a 24-month period. Payments from AT&T/Cingular will be reported on a quarterly basis.

During the call, executives for the Cupertino-based company also revealed that Apple retail store personnel are "putting a lot of energy into preparing for the launch" of iPhone and how to best market the revolutionary device to customers.

Although Apple has yet to begin taking iPhone orders through retail or its online store, it said to expect an announcement at a later date.

The company remains on track to introduce the device in Europe during the fourth calendar quarter (Oct. - Dec.) and Asia in 2008. In the United States, iPhones will be sold via Apple.com, Cingular.com, Apple retail stores, and Cingular/AT&T retail stores. They will not be sold through Cingular/AT&T partner stores such as Best Buy.

Apple chief operating officer Tim Cook would not comment on initial iPhone supply, explaining that the company had not yet begun manufacturing ramp of the device.

"It's very difficult to tell what demand is until you're shipping the product," he said.[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2702)

[sandau]

I'd like to start with the iPod games on the Apple TV please. I just want Texas Hold'em! :D

And then add the widgets already. My wife wants the weather widget on the big screen in the morning along with some news.

[mgkwho]

It's spelled "you're."

-=|Mgkwho

[JeffDM]

I'd like to start with the iPod games on the Apple TV please. I just want Texas Hold'em! :D

And then add the widgets already. My wife wants the weather widget on the big screen in the morning along with some news.

Widgets sound interesting, but I don't think many of the games would work on AppleTV without reworking the wheel control, never mind that it would probably need an ARM emulator.

[marchhare]

How can they do this with this, but I had to pay $2 for 802.11n software?

[Mike Peel]

It could be because they're adding new software features, rather than a new hardware feature (which the 802.11n was, even if only had to be enabled by software).

Alternatively, in the case of the iPhone they could argue that the customer is continuing to pay for the device over time via the contract, so they can then add new features to it without having to charge extra. That couldn't apply to the iTV, though, so it's most likely the first.

[ecking]

Yes add more to the apple tv, that way asides from adding OSX hacking would be unnecessary. Then I'd buy one. Or they could just lower the price, then I'd also buy one. :D

[nevenmrgan]

"How can they do this with this, but I had to pay $2 for 802.11n software?"

They're switching to a "subscription model" for AppleTV and iPhone (this has nothing to do with "iTunes subscriptions" or anything like that; it's a financial term). This will allow them to do precisely that - roll out significant new features for existing and sold products at no charge to the customer.

They didn't do the same with the desktop line for complex reasons. In any case, long story short, AppleTV and iPhone may receive significant software updates for free. Yay!

[trevorlsciact]

when I red the title i thought apple would begiving away apple tvs with the iphone. oh, well.

[nevenmrgan]

The title here is a little misleading; they're not "building" new features in, they're rolling them out via software updates. If I had to guess, I'd say a typical such update would be, for instance, the ability to read RSS feeds on AppleTV or an additional application for iPhone.

One thing many are forgetting in their criticism of AppleTV and iPhone is that both of those are platforms quite a bit more open than, say, iPod. I expect that AppleTV and iPhone will be updated with both free AND for-pay updates which will bring significant improvements. The logistic and technical issues with both are much easier to overcome than with iPod - development will be done for OS X, not for the iPod platform, and both devices have much greater input and output capabilities than iPod.

[FreeState]

I don't think many of the games would work on AppleTV without reworking the wheel control, never mind that it would probably need an ARM emulator.

But games and much more are coming for sure. See you iTunes Localizable.strings file.

Manage your ATV files manually:

"4309.061" = "Are you sure you want to manually manage music on your Apple TV? You will need to manually eject your Apple TV before it can be disconnected safely.";
"4309.062" = "Are you sure you want to manually manage music and videos on your Apple TV? You will need to manually eject your Apple TV before it can be disconnected safely.";
"4309.063" = "Are you sure you do not want to manually manage music on your Apple TV? All existing content on the Apple TV “^1” will be replaced with content from your iTunes library.";
"4309.064" = "Are you sure you do not want to manually manage music and videos on your Apple TV? All existing content on the Apple TV “^1” will be replaced with content from your iTunes library.";


Use the hard drive as a hard drive like an iPod can:

"4309.065" = "Enabling the Apple TV for disk use requires manually ejecting the Apple TV before each disconnect, even when automatically syncing music.";
"4309.066" = "The software required for communicating with the Apple TV is not installed correctly. Please reinstall iTunes to install the Apple TV’s software.";

Voice memos from your iPhone:

"4309.071" = "Voice Memos";
"4309.073" = "The Apple TV “^1” contains new voice memos. Would you like to move these voice memos to your iTunes library?";
"4309.074" = "Moving voice memos to your iTunes library…";


Syncing of contacts, calendars, nikeplus data

(note this strings are found under the AppleTV Section even though they do not use the word AppleTV like the others)
"4309.127" = "Syncing contacts on “^1”…";
"4309.128" = "Syncing calendars on “^1”…";
"4309.129" = "Sending workout data to nikeplus.com…";
"4309.130" = "Downloading Nike*+*iPod voice kit…";
"4309.131" = "Installing Nike*+*iPod voice kit…";
"4309.132" = "Syncing contacts and calendars on “^1”…";

Games:

"4309.161" = "Are you sure you want to sync games? All existing games on the Apple TV “^1” will be replaced with games from this iTunes library.";
"4309.162" = "Are you sure you do not want to sync games? All existing games on the Apple TV “^1” will be removed.";
"4309.163" = "Syncing games on “^1”…";

Purchasing directly from ATV:

"4309.194" = "The Apple TV “^1” was not erased and synced because some iTunes Store purchases were not transferred to this iTunes library.";
"4309.195" = "Waiting for Apple TV…";

[johnsonwax]

How can they do this with this, but I had to pay $2 for 802.11n software?

Two reasons:

1) After the Performa PPC upgrade settlement, Apple agreed to never advertise a product as upgradable unless that upgrade was available at the time of purchase. The .11n upgrade wasn't available at the time.

2) Under Sarbanes-Oxley, the company needs to account for the costs of new features, which they cannot do after the sale is made. Hence, the 'subscription'. It's the same reason why iPod updates can't include features developed for newer iPods. Different companies interpret SO in different ways and Apple is generally pretty conservative on it.

[SpamSandwich]

But games and much more are coming for sure. See you iTunes Localizable.strings file.

Nicely done! Lots of cool new functionality to look forward to!

[Celemourn]

Ok, now I'm going to go ahead and work on the assumption (which may be wrong) that Sarbanes-Oxley was a good idea, for some reason. Someone want to clue me in on what that was? It seems to be more of a pain in the ass for the consumer in this particular circumstance.

[GregAlexander]

How can they do this with this, but I had to pay $2 for 802.11n software?
New laws forced Apple to charge for the upgrade. Ludicrous.

By accounting for each sale quarterly, Apple can report that the users HAVE paid for an upgrade (as long as they don't upgrade more than once a quarter, perhaps?)

[MacCheech]

Although Apple has yet to begin taking iPhone orders through retail or its online store, it said to expect an announcement at a later date. The company remains on track to introduce the device in Europe during the fourth calendar quarter (Oct. - Dec.) and Asia in 2008.

I wish Apple would include information for a Canadian introduction date. After all, Europe and Asia are kind of far away in comparaison to your friendly northern neighbor. For myself, it will be very hard and frustrating having a US launch (yet so close and yet so far) and not able to put my hand on the very coveted iPhone before many months, imagine if Europe or Asia have it at a earlier date than Canada (nightmare).

:\

[nevenmrgan]

Sarbanes-Oxley is... complex. Very broadly speaking, it was supposed to reinstate confidence in accounting practices in the US by introducing new standards and regulations. It has numerous provisions, all presumably designed to make business and accounting more, well, accountable. This specific issue with Apple is, as pointed out, a consequence of their reading of what they need to report and how.

[vinney57]

Different companies interpret SO in different ways and Apple is generally pretty conservative on it.

Adobe have made the same interpretation as Apple.

[mrpiddly]

I really want the iphone to support mobile open GL, i dont know the name. Through that some less damanding computer games have ben played on pocket pcs.

[josephwinters]

Here's what I've been dying to find out...

When apple releases the iphone, and I buy a phone... am I going to go through a "credit check" as well?

Generally when you buy a phone with contract, you are subject to credit checks....


;) Not to say my credit is bad, but do you think thats going to happen?... Or maybe I'll be able to walk into the apple store, buy a $600 phone, and be automatically placed into a contract without a credit check...

ugh. So people that "don't pass" then what? heh... :-/ sorry im sporatic, i dont know if im asking this correctly.

sigh.

[nevenmrgan]

If Cingular requires a credit check, then I'm assuming Apple will be running those during the purchase/signup. It will probably be similar to the current Juniper Visa process, or perhaps even more streamlined.

I envision a dedicated iPhone counter where you'll be asked a few questions - are you currently a Cingular customer? Are you still under contract? Would you like to keep your current phone number? Here, fill out this application (on a Mac, not on - ugh - paper).

Another great thing would be if you could sign up online for a spot at the iPhone signup counter, Concierge-style.

[satchmo]

I wonder if this announcement has anything to do with the generally less than stellar press reviews of the AppleTV.

[nevenmrgan]

I'd wonder that, too, if the reviews were really generally less than stellar.

[EagerDragon]

Sarbanes-Oxley is... complex. Very broadly speaking, it was supposed to reinstate confidence in accounting practices in the US by introducing new standards and regulations. It has numerous provisions, all presumably designed to make business and accounting more, well, accountable. This specific issue with Apple is, as pointed out, a consequence of their reading of what they need to report and how.

Correct, I has little to do with consumers, it has more to do with stock market confidence on the accounting practices of a corporation.

[EagerDragon]

I wonder if this announcement has anything to do with the generally less than stellar press reviews of the AppleTV.

Maybe, but I think is a dead on target with the issue of the device not being extendable and closed.

Then again it could be simply that they had all these plans in the works (for the particular software) but not sufficient time and personnel to complete it by release date, so instead they will complete the software within 2 years, and release it as it becomes ready, LOL.

[FreeState]

Then again it could be simply that they had all these plans in the works (for the particular software) but not sufficient time and personnel to complete it by release date, so instead they will complete the software within 2 years, and release it as it becomes ready, LOL.

I think you are right. iTunes files are littered with reference to functions the ATV has yet to implement. Generally Apple does not put in these references until the functionality it supports is implemented. That the references are still there implies, to me, that they had to pull people off the development for some reason and they just left the localized files intact. It may not be just Leopard that had people pulled - iTunes and AppleTV both will interact with iPhone so I speculates that they are helping with the iPhone and then will come back to the ATV, Im not sure but Apple might even use the same developers for iTunes/AppleTV/iPhone because its in the same department.

[mdriftmeyer]

How can they do this with this, but I had to pay $2 for 802.11n software?

You're joking, right?

A specification that isn't finalized and you want it turned on for free? How many cell phones have you had that are not locked in with your provider? The phone can be opened up but you don't get that for free and they aren't based upon some specification in flux.

[caliminius]

But games and much more are coming for sure. See you iTunes Localizable.strings file.

Manage your ATV files manually:

"4309.061" = "Are you sure you want to manually manage music on your Apple TV? You will need to manually eject your Apple TV before it can be disconnected safely.";
"4309.062" = "Are you sure you want to manually manage music and videos on your Apple TV? You will need to manually eject your Apple TV before it can be disconnected safely.";
"4309.063" = "Are you sure you do not want to manually manage music on your Apple TV? All existing content on the Apple TV “^1” will be replaced with content from your iTunes library.";
"4309.064" = "Are you sure you do not want to manually manage music and videos on your Apple TV? All existing content on the Apple TV “^1” will be replaced with content from your iTunes library.";


Use the hard drive as a hard drive like an iPod can:

"4309.065" = "Enabling the Apple TV for disk use requires manually ejecting the Apple TV before each disconnect, even when automatically syncing music.";
"4309.066" = "The software required for communicating with the Apple TV is not installed correctly. Please reinstall iTunes to install the Apple TV’s software.";

Voice memos from your iPhone:

"4309.071" = "Voice Memos";
"4309.073" = "The Apple TV “^1” contains new voice memos. Would you like to move these voice memos to your iTunes library?";
"4309.074" = "Moving voice memos to your iTunes library…";


Syncing of contacts, calendars, nikeplus data

(note this strings are found under the AppleTV Section even though they do not use the word AppleTV like the others)
"4309.127" = "Syncing contacts on “^1”…";
"4309.128" = "Syncing calendars on “^1”…";
"4309.129" = "Sending workout data to nikeplus.com…";
"4309.130" = "Downloading Nike*+*iPod voice kit…";
"4309.131" = "Installing Nike*+*iPod voice kit…";
"4309.132" = "Syncing contacts and calendars on “^1”…";

Games:

"4309.161" = "Are you sure you want to sync games? All existing games on the Apple TV “^1” will be replaced with games from this iTunes library.";
"4309.162" = "Are you sure you do not want to sync games? All existing games on the Apple TV “^1” will be removed.";
"4309.163" = "Syncing games on “^1”…";

Purchasing directly from ATV:

"4309.194" = "The Apple TV “^1” was not erased and synced because some iTunes Store purchases were not transferred to this iTunes library.";
"4309.195" = "Waiting for Apple TV…";

Your analysis is flawed. You might note that these same strings are all listed under both the iPod section (4300) and the mobile phone section (4301). Did you even read what you copied because some of the messages don't even make sense? Like the nike+ messages, 4309.130 and 131. What good would nike+ software do on the AppleTV? Or 4309.062, about having to eject the AppleTV? Why would have to eject the AppleTV since it is never directly connected to the source computer? All it shows is that all these messages are kept in sync between the various sections.

[FreeState]

Your analysis is flawed. You might note that these same strings are all listed under both the iPod section (4300) and the mobile phone section (4301). Did you even read what you copied because some of the messages don't even make sense?

No I just cut and pasted it with out reading it cause Im blind. /sarcasm

If you compare the sections that have similar strings you will notice they all actually do the functions in the real world except for the games on the phone.

Like the nike+ messages, 4309.130 and 131. What good would nike+ software do on the AppleTV?

I know a lot of runners that would love to see there progress on their TV's- there is a lot that can be done with this in the future.

Or 4309.062, about having to eject the AppleTV? Why would have to eject the AppleTV since it is never directly connected to the source computer? .

Ever connected to another computer on the network? You have to eject it when you are done.

All it shows is that all these messages are kept in sync between the various sections.

Well that would be true, however if you go and look at the actual file its not kept in sync between the different sections at all.

[jonessodarally]

No I just cut and pasted it with out reading it cause Im blind. /sarcasm

If you compare the sections that have similar strings you will notice they all actually do the functions in the real world except for the games on the phone.

I know a lot of runners that would love to see there progress on their TV's- there is a lot that can be done with this in the future.

Ever connected to another computer on the network? You have to eject it when you are done.

Well that would be true, however if you go and look at the actual file its not kept in sync between the different sections at all.


I don't know either way (obviously) but it seems to me like... with the way they market the AppleTV with the iPod line so thoroughly, it would make sense if they wrote all the iTunes coding for it in the same fashion. I mean, if you go through the snippets you found, you can replace "AppleTV" with "iPod" and it makes perfect sense.

Maybe they tossed the code into Microsoft Word and just did a "Find and Replace.." on the whole thing. ;)

[ddarko]

Adobe have made the same interpretation as Apple.

I don't know about Adobe but Apple's explanation is BS.

The ONLY thing the accounting rules required Apple to do was to figure out a value for the n upgrade so the value could be booked on Apple's balance sheet. That's it: figure out how much this upgrade is worth. But what Apple did was more than set a value; it decided to capture that value from customers by actually charging $1.99 for the upgrade. Charging customer was NOT REQUIRED for the accounting obligations. The rules say Apple had to figure out a value for the n upgrade; it doesn't say forcing customers to cough up a real fee was the only way to determine that value. It could have said the upgrade is worth X amount and then booked it on their balance sheets. End of story, accounting rules satisfied. It's misleading bordering on lying for Apple to say that it was forced by accounting rules to charge customers. Not true, the only thing Apple is required to do is set a value. It decided to charge customers all on its own. Accounting had nothing to do with that decision. If you want a decent explanation for this, check out this news.com article:

http://news.com.com/Apples+802.11n+accounting+conundrum/2100-1044_3-6151790.html

[JeffDM]

(in relation to a now deleted comment made by the genetic mistake above regarding the topic being in red):

It's an automatic feature based on how many replies a thread gets in a certain amount of time. What you probably did by replying is made it last longer. And I extended it again just to please you. :D

[ddarko]

I think you've confused the administrator with the green aliens in black helicopters who are stealing your mind. Don't forget to put your aluminum helmet back on.

[JeffDM]

The title of post #32 still remains.

[grahamw]

Beat you to it Jeff.

[Superbass]

It's hard to tell if this is a case of them adding value to the product after people have purchased it, or shipping a product before it's complete and finishing it afterwards via software updates...

In the case of ATv, it's really as though they shipped an incomplete product package and now are (hopefully) going to finish it by increasing it's limited functionality.

Their press releases always have such a wonderful slant on them. What if Windows released a statement saying that Vista would include free updates to functionality - would you all be so glowing in your response? I mean, SP1 and SP2 greatly improved the feature set, useability, etc. of XP... isn't that the same thing?

[melgross]

Ok, now I'm going to go ahead and work on the assumption (which may be wrong) that Sarbanes-Oxley was a good idea, for some reason. Someone want to clue me in on what that was? It seems to be more of a pain in the ass for the consumer in this particular circumstance.

Apple's choices have nothing to do with S/O directly.

They chose to do it that way.

[melgross]

I wonder if this announcement has anything to do with the generally less than stellar press reviews of the AppleTV.

Which less than stellar reviews are you talking about? I haven't seen any.

All the reviews I saw were pretty good. The only things they wondered about was when Apple would offer HD from iTunes, which has nothing to do with the ATv itself, and if Apple would have the device import more file types.

[melgross]

Beat you to it Jeff.

Dang! I hate reading about posts that don't exist.

[melgross]

It's hard to tell if this is a case of them adding value to the product after people have purchased it, or shipping a product before it's complete and finishing it afterwards via software updates...

In the case of ATv, it's really as though they shipped an incomplete product package and now are (hopefully) going to finish it by increasing it's limited functionality.

Their press releases always have such a wonderful slant on them. What if Windows released a statement saying that Vista would include free updates to functionality - would you all be so glowing in your response? I mean, SP1 and SP2 greatly improved the feature set, useability, etc. of XP... isn't that the same thing?

We don't know that the ATv isn't finished. According to the reviews I've read, it seems to do just what it's been advertised to do.

This is an open system, just as the iPhone, and Apple's computers are, and to a certain extent the iPods are as well. They are designed to be upgraded.

By the way "Windows" doesn't release any statements, it's only a program.

[Aqua OS X]

OMG, free software, use teh red text! Use teh red tex!!!1!

But seriously, the iPhone and AppleTV are first generation products that are going to have noticeable inadequacies. Apple had better provide updated software with expanded feature sets. This is exactly what they did with OS X and the iPod when they were new.

[caliminius]

If you compare the sections that have similar strings you will notice they all actually do the functions in the real world except for the games on the phone.

I'm not sure what that means, but they obviously don't do the functions if you are assuming they are for future product updates. Do any of the iTunes-equipped phones allow transfer of voice memos back to the iTunes computer? (I actually don't know the answer to that one) Does the AppleTV do voice memos? No, it doesn't...

I know a lot of runners that would love to see there progress on their TV's- there is a lot that can be done with this in the future.

Yes, but the messages you grabbed talked about the Nike + iPod voice kit. I'm assuming that is the software that does the voice over stuff with the iPod Nanos and the Nike+ kit. What good would that do on the AppleTV? I suppose you could run around the living room with your Nano and have the audio come out of your TV, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Ever connected to another computer on the network? You have to eject it when you are done.

To be honest, I haven't done that with a Mac. I've connect to shared drives with PC's but generally haven't ejected/disconnected afterwards. Again, why would you eject the AppleTV? You would never have to because it should pretty much always be on the same network as the host computer. I understand why such a message exists for the iPod and mobile phones, because they do get removed from the network frequently.

Well that would be true, however if you go and look at the actual file its not kept in sync between the different sections at all.

I did look at the actual file. I didn't read every line in the iPod/mobile phones/AppleTV sections, but they seemed pretty in sync. Feel free to point out where these major differences were. Every message you posted was in all three sections in exactly the same words except for changing to iPod/mobile phone/Apple TV as appropriate for the various sections.

I really don't think these messages hint at any future functions on either the iPhone or the AppleTV.

[philipm]

Sarbanes-Oxley is... complex. Very broadly speaking, it was supposed to reinstate confidence in accounting practices in the US by introducing new standards and regulations. It has numerous provisions, all presumably designed to make business and accounting more, well, accountable. This specific issue with Apple is, as pointed out, a consequence of their reading of what they need to report and how.

Such pedantry did't apply to their accounting for stock options.

To slightly misquote Ralph Waldo Emerson, demanding consistency is the hobgoblin of a small mind ...

[@homenow]

We don't know that the ATv isn't finished. According to the reviews I've read, it seems to do just what it's been advertised to do.

This is an open system, just as the iPhone, and Apple's computers are, and to a certain extent the iPods are as well. They are designed to be upgraded.

Apple TV doesn't really need much to add value to the product. It can receive streams from the internet already, and through that they could add "free" and or "subscription" support for YouTube , Joust, and other internet "Broadcasters". It also has a plug-in architecture which could be used to allow others such as Joust and YouTube to add the support independently, all that is required for that which is not currently available is the development kit and a channel to install said plug-ins without "hacking" the system. These are not really new features, but for the most part already there in the OS and only need to be expanded on much the way Apple adds new printer and camera drivers with each incremental update to OS X.

Right now neither the Apple TV nor the yet to be released iPhone are open systems. An Open system implies that there is a development kit available (no "hacking required") and that a developer can release software written with that development kit without approval from Apple and the consumer can install said programs. We do not know that this will happen with either the iPhone or Apple TV. Hopefully they will release a development kit for both of these systems because it will increase their appeal to consumers and help them gain market share in their intended markets.

[melgross]

Such pedantry did't apply to their accounting for stock options.

To slightly misquote Ralph Waldo Emerson, demanding consistency is the hobgoblin of a small mind ...

S/O didn't exist back then. It would have been difficult to adhere to standards that weren't around.

Back then, the CEO was not responsible for accounting methods and accuracy. S/O has attempted to make them more responsible by having them sign off on the financial statement.

[melgross]

Apple TV doesn't really need much to add value to the product. It can receive streams from the internet already, and through that they could add "free" and or "subscription" support for YouTube , Joust, and other internet "Broadcasters". It also has a plug-in architecture which could be used to allow others such as Joust and YouTube to add the support independently, all that is required for that which is not currently available is the development kit and a channel to install said plug-ins without "hacking" the system. These are not really new features, but for the most part already there in the OS and only need to be expanded on much the way Apple adds new printer and camera drivers with each incremental update to OS X.

Right now neither the Apple TV nor the yet to be released iPhone are open systems. An Open system implies that there is a development kit available (no "hacking required") and that a developer can release software written with that development kit without approval from Apple and the consumer can install said programs. We do not know that this will happen with either the iPhone or Apple TV. Hopefully they will release a development kit for both of these systems because it will increase their appeal to consumers and help them gain market share in their intended markets.

There are two parts to a system being open.

The first and most important is that it be upgradable in the first place. Both the iPhone and the ATv fit that definition perfectly. The iPod sort of does.

The second, as you say, requires support from the manufacturer. So far, that hasn't come—as far as we know. What we do know is that Apple has said that third party software for the iPhone is likely, so there is obviously a way to do that, kit or no kit.

As far as the ATv is concerned, there is already plenty of third party stuff available—no kit required.

Apple even recently stated that once someone buys an ATV, it was theirs to fiddle with. That certainly implies that it is open.

[appleofmyeye]

>>It's hard to tell if this is a case of them adding value to the product after people have purchased it, or shipping a product before it's complete and finishing it afterwards via software updates..<<

I think it's at least some of the latter. Nothing wrong with that per se, just call it what it is. Because when I first saw the link to this news, I took it as an answer to my top iPhone issue: the rules about third-party software and installing your own. i.e. There will apparently be no installing whatever you like at will, as you would say the latest greatest open source phone browser/media player, or most of the things Mac users grab and try at macupdate.com

For legitimate enough reasons, Apple will provide links to Apple-approved add-ons to be developed by Apple-approved third parties, if I'm understanding the shape of things to come. That's fine, it's their prerogative and all -- but for a whole fleet of would-be iPhone buyers, it could be a deal-breaker, at least for a while.

Thus I thought this news was some official expansion on Apple's own plans for an expanded iPhone download site, perhaps letting all-comers develop and distribute third-party iPhone software via a central Apple site. (Like they do with OS X software downloads at Apple.com)

Rather, this does sound more like Microsoft making a feature out of the latest security hole update program.

As someone who's reluctantly avoided iPod because he can't surrender geek add-ons to buy the whole ranch, the apparent all-or-nothing bargain is going to be a real struggle when the day comes to get a fancy new phone.

The upside? The iPhone could still do enough things so well that it's worth -- like the iPod -- almost any tradeoff Apple asks me to make.

[anantksundaram]

I don't know about Adobe but Apple's explanation is BS.


That is the most sensible thing that has been said on this issue in this thread!

[FreeState]

I'm not sure what that means, but they obviously don't do the functions if you are assuming they are for future product updates. Do any of the iTunes-equipped phones allow transfer of voice memos back to the iTunes computer? (I actually don't know the answer to that one) Does the AppleTV do voice memos? No, it doesn't...

AppleTV may transfer your voice memo's to its hard drive int he future - thats the point of speculating what this all means. I do not currently have a phone that works with iTunes so maybe someone else can answer that.

Yes, but the messages you grabbed talked about the Nike + iPod voice kit. I'm assuming that is the software that does the voice over stuff with the iPod Nanos and the Nike+ kit. What good would that do on the AppleTV? I suppose you could run around the living room with your Nano and have the audio come out of your TV, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

There is a lot more to the Nike + iPod experiance.

Go to the nike site and see how it works. Please take note of your runs, history, community etc.

http://www.nike.com/nikeplus/


To be honest, I haven't done that with a Mac. I've connect to shared drives with PC's but generally haven't ejected/disconnected afterwards. Again, why would you eject the AppleTV? You would never have to because it should pretty much always be on the same network as the host computer. I understand why such a message exists for the iPod and mobile phones, because they do get removed from the network frequently.

If you connect to a computer over the network you do at some point disconnect from it for many many reasons.


I did look at the actual file. I didn't read every line in the iPod/mobile phones/AppleTV sections, but they seemed pretty in sync. Feel free to point out where these major differences were. Every message you posted was in all three sections in exactly the same words except for changing to iPod/mobile phone/Apple TV as appropriate for the various sections.

I really don't think these messages hint at any future functions on either the iPhone or the AppleTV.

Im not going to force you to agree with me LOL. You do not need to.

Edit to add:

AppleTV has Bluetooth in it but its not used. So I think Apple is saying some software update will enable this hardware to work (like the Wireless N).

Picture of bluetooth working once its been hacked: http://www.pbase.com/jhapeman/image/76522598

[GregAlexander]

iTunes files are littered with reference to functions the ATV has yet to implement. Generally Apple does not put in these references until the functionality it supports is implemented. That the references are still there implies, to me, that they had to pull people off the development for some reason and they just left the localized files intact. It may not be just Leopard that had people pulled - iTunes and AppleTV both will interact with iPhone so I speculates that they are helping with the iPhone and then will come back to the ATV, Im not sure but Apple might even use the same developers for iTunes/AppleTV/iPhone because its in the same department.

I wouldn't be surprised if the end goal is a full Leopard (10.5) for Macs, and 2 "lite" Leopards for the AppleTV and for the iPhone (much smaller footprints, perhaps no Darwin?).

The AppleTV came too early to get Leopard lite and they have created a simpler system based on 10.4.7. The iPhone will be the first version of Leopard we see - it simply can not handle the bigger OS like the AppleTV has, so it MUST use the lite version.

IF correct (big IF)... this implies
1) AppleTV OS creators -could- now be focussed on the iPhone OS
2) We've seen a close approximation of the AppleTV OS - there IS more (whatever Leopard offers is possible, whether known or secret).
3) All the new hacks may stop working when the AppleTV OS comes out
4) We could see the AppleTV OS from as early as the iPhone (if they are both "Lite")... up to a month after Leopard.

Watching the screen saver was what got me wondering about Leopard-for-AppleTV. The screen saver is great, but it's a poor imitation of what Core Animation is capable of. I'm betting for some very interesting functions here (as well as in future iPhoto versions)

[GregAlexander]

Apple TV doesn't really need much to add value to the product. It can receive streams from the internet already, and through that they could add "free" and or "subscription" support for YouTube , Joust, and other internet "Broadcasters". It also has a plug-in architecture which could be used to allow others such as Joust and YouTube to add the support independently, all that is required for that which is not currently available is the development kit and a channel to install said plug-ins without "hacking" the system.
There is much functionality they could add to the AppleTV.

However... it quickly becomes a far more complicated interface. Even now, how can you find a movie preview you're interested in watching? Let alone renting from a catalog of movies. How would you find a youTube video you wanted to see?

I'm of 2 minds - more functionality is great, but the simplicity is key to a new TV paradigm. They need to do both - but put simplicity first.

[melgross]

Ok, I'll say it. I'm excited about the whole idea of Apple finally doing what Jobs said they would do almost two years ago, leveraging the OS.

This is really much bigger than petty squabbles about one thing or the other.

These devices will become more over time, that's exciting.

Apple could put the OS into other devices as well. An OMPC, or whatever they call those little things. Even a cheap educational computer like the one the UN is working on.

Many things can result from this. That's worth talking about.

We don't know what Apple is planning, but they sure are planning something. I still think it is very important that when asked about the mods that are out for the ATv already, Apple essentially shrugged, and said that if you buy it, you can mod it.

Doesn't anyone here find that significant, other than myself?

[@homenow]

There is much functionality they could add to the AppleTV.

However... it quickly becomes a far more complicated interface. Even now, how can you find a movie preview you're interested in watching? Let alone renting from a catalog of movies. How would you find a youTube video you wanted to see?

I'm of 2 minds - more functionality is great, but the simplicity is key to a new TV paradigm. They need to do both - but put simplicity first.

What functions would you really want that are possible given the current hardware set-up? USB Web cam & iChat? Keyboard, mouse, and web browser? Mail? Answering machine? Sure the hardware will probably grow in the future, but the OS should be able to handle most of what people want right now, short of DVR, as is. Apple would need to unlock the USB port and keyboard control which is probably accessible by their tech team for trouble shooting already. The software they could do themselves as free downloads, like iTunes, or let 3d party developers add to Apple TV with programs and plug-ins as Apple as well as hardware companies work on increasing the driver support which is usually part of incremental OS upgrades or install disks from the hardware company anyway.

What it needs most is (HD) content and a way to get in to the Apple TV. IPTV, Subscription video, video rentals, etc. The delivery methods over the internet are just starting out now. We will probably know more by the end of the year, hopefully sooner. I don't think Apple can fill all the needs of content for Apple TV to be successful so I suspect some sort of "plug-ins" that would allow adding google video, YouTube, and others into the mix. The other way they could do this would be to sell the internet companies the software that supports Apple TV streaming that is used for movie previews which would need minimal to no changes to the Apple TV OS.

[wnurse]

The title here is a little misleading; they're not "building" new features in, they're rolling them out via software updates. If I had to guess, I'd say a typical such update would be, for instance, the ability to read RSS feeds on AppleTV or an additional application for iPhone.

One thing many are forgetting in their criticism of AppleTV and iPhone is that both of those are platforms quite a bit more open than, say, iPod. I expect that AppleTV and iPhone will be updated with both free AND for-pay updates which will bring significant improvements. The logistic and technical issues with both are much easier to overcome than with iPod - development will be done for OS X, not for the iPod platform, and both devices have much greater input and output capabilities than iPod.

The word "upgrade" implies upgrading existing features. The title is correct. Yes, they are delivering these new features via the software upgrade program but do not mistake the delivery method for the feature type. Apple can add new features and app even if delivering via software upgrade program. I am a big critic of the iphone (i think it is too pricey) but i like this.. Give users value for paying such a high price. Hmm, makes the success of the apple iphone a bit more certain. I still would not be getting one but i have to mute my criticism a little bit (of course, what these new features are is of interest.. if they are just small additions, then a big yawn.. if major new features, then excellent).

[wnurse]

You're joking, right?

A specification that isn't finalized and you want it turned on for free? How many cell phones have you had that are not locked in with your provider? The phone can be opened up but you don't get that for free and they aren't based upon some specification in flux.

Actually, he's not joking. other than obeying some accounting rule, why couldn't apple have turned it on for free?. How do you know the price of the product didn't already include the feature and apple is double charging?. What?.. u so trusting of apple that you can't question?. You have no idea if the price of the product didn't already include the cost of turning on the specification and maybe the $2 is just a way for apple to grab more money.. are you jobs close relative or something?.

[wnurse]

It's hard to tell if this is a case of them adding value to the product after people have purchased it, or shipping a product before it's complete and finishing it afterwards via software updates...

In the case of ATv, it's really as though they shipped an incomplete product package and now are (hopefully) going to finish it by increasing it's limited functionality.

Their press releases always have such a wonderful slant on them. What if Windows released a statement saying that Vista would include free updates to functionality - would you all be so glowing in your response? I mean, SP1 and SP2 greatly improved the feature set, useability, etc. of XP... isn't that the same thing?

Hmm, although i think you meant microsoft released a statement (not windows).. this never occured to me.. yeah, it would be tough to know if apple is foisting an unfinished product on the public.. i guess the public will find out when stuff works/don work... but interesting thought nevertheless.

[melgross]

The word "upgrade" implies upgrading existing features. The title is correct. Yes, they are delivering these new features via the software upgrade program but do not mistake the delivery method for the feature type. Apple can add new features and app even if delivering via software upgrade program. I am a big critic of the iphone (i think it is too pricey) but i like this.. Give users value for paying such a high price. Hmm, makes the success of the apple iphone a bit more certain. I still would not be getting one but i have to mute my criticism a little bit (of course, what these new features are is of interest.. if they are just small additions, then a big yawn.. if major new features, then excellent).

Update implies improving existing features.

Upgrade implies adding features as well as improving the existing ones.

[melgross]

Actually, he's not joking. other than obeying some accounting rule, why couldn't apple have turned it on for free?. How do you know the price of the product didn't already include the feature and apple is double charging?. What?.. u so trusting of apple that you can't question?. You have no idea if the price of the product didn't already include the cost of turning on the specification and maybe the $2 is just a way for apple to grab more money.. are you jobs close relative or something?.

This has already been discussed to death. Apple did what they did because they handled it improperly from the beginning, and they were left with a distastful task of charging their customers for that feature.

Now they are doing it in a way that won't require them to do that again.

[melgross]

Hmm, although i think you meant microsoft released a statement (not windows).. this never occured to me.. yeah, it would be tough to know if apple is foisting an unfinished product on the public.. i guess the public will find out when stuff works/don work... but interesting thought nevertheless.

It's simple.

If it does what Apple says it does, then it's complete. If it doesn't, then it's faulty, and shouldn't have been released at all.

So far, the former seems to be true.

[wnurse]

Update implies improving existing features.

Upgrade implies adding features as well as improving the existing ones.

That second definition of upgrade is very broad.. what if apple then gives you tetris for free? (assuming it's not included in the first iphone shipment)... is that an upgrade?. what exactly then is not an upgrade?

[nevenmrgan]

The word "upgrade" implies upgrading existing features. The title is correct. Yes, they are delivering these new features via the software upgrade program but do not mistake the delivery method for the feature type.

I wasn't questioning that; I was taking issue with the phrase "build in." Even if some future software update to iPhone includes a mini version of iWork, I wouldn't call that "building a feature in." It's adding it on. "Build in" implies functionality existent from the start; it's the precise opposite of what Apple is saying they might do in the future, which is add to the built-in feature set.

I was disagreeing with the language of the title, not the contention that Apple will include significant new functionality (above and beyond patches and "updates") in these software roll-outs.

[nevenmrgan]

That second definition of upgrade is very broad.. what if apple then gives you tetris for free? (assuming it's not included in the first iphone shipment)... is that an upgrade?. what exactly then is not an upgrade?

There's no reason to get too hung up on the difference; it's both subjective and clear.

Updates are commonly understood to be minor changes, or changes to behind-the-scenes mechanisms which aren't reflected in the "userland" part of the software beyond making it faster, more stable, secure, etc. Software updates make software run the way it should have from the start, given a certain set of requirements for what the software should do.

Upgrades are major changes which include added, previously unavailable functionality. While adding a single button could be viewed as an "upgrade" of sorts, most developers don't just roll out an upgrade of that sort - they wait until they have enough new features to justify a new release.

An example: if Apple Mail lacked a Reply button, that would call for a (quick) update - the software would be unfinished without it. But adding RSS feeds to Apple Mail - that's quite clearly an upgrade by almost anyone's standard. But that doesn't mean that Apple will release a whole new version of OS X to add that one feature; they'll put together a whole lot of them.

So in conclusion, if (when?) iPhone and AppleTV get "upgraded", expect several entirely new features to appear on them.

[melgross]

That second definition of upgrade is very broad.. what if apple then gives you tetris for free? (assuming it's not included in the first iphone shipment)... is that an upgrade?. what exactly then is not an upgrade?

It's something we're pretty familliar with.

When you get an update from a company, do you pay for it, and why is that so, do you think?

When you get an upgrade, do you pay for it, and why is that so?

10.4.9 was an update, while 10.5 will be an upgrade, for example.

The differention between the two is clear. Update fixes bugs, broken features, etc., and is free, normally.

Upgrade adds major features as well as does the above, and we pay for it, usually.

Apple has already more than hinted that we will see new programs on the iPhone with these upgrades.

I don't know exactly what we will get for the ATv.

[SpinDrift]

I bought an Apple TV 2 days ago and I must say that I'm very pleased. I was going to wait for the next gen device but took the plunge in view of the potential future updates. I have no problems with upgrading the HD myself, so I'm sure it will do me for a good few years.

I live in the UK, so I can't download movies yet anyway, so I use it to watch my already 'handbreaked' film collection. Thus far I find that my H.264 encoded movies are better than DVD quality on my 1080i TV and sound great through my THX amp.

I'll be ordering a Logitech Harmony 1000 tomorrow to do away with all my remotes.

[jonnymango]

It's too bad there's no real programming api / sdk for the iphone. Only "web 2.0 standards"... well that sure sounds modern.

Anyway, i read some positive stuff over at http://www.iphone-know.com/ and over on gizmado about the phone. The visual voice mail and at&t's service aint too bad.
:rolleyes:

[Chucker]

Anyway, i read some positive stuff over at http://www.iphone-know.com/

You mean you wrote it and are looking for visitors.

[TednDi]

Actually, I can see apple enabling features on the iphone as we move along and adopt leopard.
They are going to book iphone and Apple TV sales in 24 month subscription accounting. That should allow for more and frequent capability upgrades as we move along.

I am sure that leopard + iphone will prove to have WAY more features than iphone +windows.

[a_greer]

2) Under Sarbanes-Oxley, the company needs to account for the costs of new features, which they cannot do after the sale is made. Hence, the 'subscription'. It's the same reason why iPod updates can't include features developed for newer iPods. Different companies interpret SO in different ways and Apple is generally pretty conservative on it.

all products/projects that involve computer software have (or should have) a built-in cost for fixes and add-ons.

free fixes and add ons are a standard in MS land...just months ago MS began offering Office 2003 patches for 2007 compatibility.

SOX basically says that you have to make controls for yourself and have external audits to validate them. It doesn't specify what those controlls are more than from a very high level

That upgrade charge thing was either a money grab or the result of a manager who was completely fucked by an internal auditor...From the company who just released free upgrades to the ATV (youtube) after all the bad press,, I say $$$ GRAB!

[TednDi]

As another matter, I can see the iphone and apple TV being an interesting pair.

What if your iphone can be used via bluetooth to control the apple TV? You could then browse the itunes movie store for content using the touch screen keyboard. Or, more interestingly, you could pre order from the iphone and have the movie waiting on your apple TV for when you get home (back to my mac).....

or, have your content streamed to your iphone. Think Slingbox.

No, we have yet to see the full picture of what is possible with leopard + iphone + apple TV.

I could easily see the Apple TV becoming the home media server. Especially if version 2 or 3 incorporates all of the features of the airport extreme 802.11n

big things indeed.