Resetting the timeline for Apple's ultra-portable initiative

[AppleInsider]

An effort on the part of Apple Inc. to develop an ultra-thin and lightweight notebook with next-generation technologies such as on-board NAND flash may take a bit more time than initially reported.

The Cupertino-based firm's return to the sub-notebook market, as AppleInsider billed it in an exclusive report this past February, had the Mac maker scurrying to complete its initial design around mid-year.

Evidence suggested the Apple World Wide Developers Conference, which invades San Francisco in June, could have served as an ideal venue for company chief executive Steve Jobs to first flaunt the device. That's now unlikely to be the case.

Citing a maturing timeline, people familiar with the initiative now have the chic notebook tracking for the latter half of the year, with a contingency plan in place to transition the device into a Macworld 2008 product should engineers require the additional time.

Those sentiments were recently echoed by American Technology analyst Shaw Wu, who seconded AppleInsider's initial report with one of his own, only putting forth more relaxed expectations that had the diminutive Mac unlikely to surface until later in the year.*

It's unclear whether Apple's delay of Leopard, the company's next-generation version of Mac OS X, will have a renewed effect on the delivery of the sub-notebook -- the Mac maker's first in over a decade.*

The compact portable is expected to draw on software support from the Leopard OS, now slated for October, for managing features such as onboard NAND flash.*

The addition of the solid state memory to the notebook's motherboard should improve power efficiency -- and thus better battery life --* as well as facilitate near instantaneous boot times.

Another trait that may set the new Apple notebook apart from existing MacBook designs, people familiar with the project have said, may be the conspicuous absence of an optical disc drive. Although Apple's original plans for the notebook appear to have called for the drive's inclusion, it was later omitted, those people said.

For additional details on Apple's re-entry into the sub-notebook market, check out AppleInsider's earlier report.[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2714)

[ Digg this story ] (http://digg.com/apple/Apple_flash_enabled_MacBook_ultra_portable_now_due _late_2007_AppleInsider)

[hmurchison]

1st Post! :P

Me personally I think I could live without an optical drive but I'd really love it if Apple
added a dock. I love the "one click" nature of docking laptops. I could leave an external DVD-R
drive attached to the dock so having one locally wouldn't be much of an issue but I would rather not
have to plug and unplug monitors and other peripherals. Plus Apple could deliver the first sub-notebook with
the ability to run dual monitors along with its integrated screen.

[TBaggins]

Hot dang, subnotebook is a'comin!... it's just gonna take awhile, that's all. But my sig don't lie. ;)

.

[suhail]

1st Post! :P

Me personally I think I could live without an optical drive but I'd really love it if Apple
added a dock. I love the "one click" nature of docking laptops. I could leave an external DVD-R
drive attached to the dock so having one locally wouldn't be much of an issue but I would rather not
have to plug and unplug monitors and other peripherals. Plus Apple could deliver the first sub-notebook with
the ability to run dual monitors along with its integrated screen.

I agree, Apple should have a docking station for their sub-notebook, one that is similar to the Apple Duo. Personally I do not need an optical drive or a large HD on the go, but I do need them at home. The Duo was beautifully engineered such that the station had the large memory, and all interface circuitry such as SCSI, Video, etc On the go your light, and at home you get all the desktop features. Yeah DUO should come back.

[EagerDragon]

I agree, Apple should have a docking station for their sub-notebook, one that is similar to the Apple Duo. Personally I do not need an optical drive or a large HD on the go, but I do need them at home. The Duo was beautifully engineered such that the station had the large memory, and all interface circuitry such as SCSI, Video, etc On the go your light, and at home you get all the desktop features. Yeah DUO should come back.

I think it would make sense to have a docking station for each and every laptop not just for a subnotebook.

The current laptops are a mess of dangling cables. Some from the left, some for the right. Makes for a real messy desk and long time to connect and disconnect all the Sh!%.

Unlike the iMac, laptops used as desktops are a mess of cables.

Oops, sorry they are no longer laptops, they are notebooks..... The more reason to have a docking station.

[Haggar]

I think it would make sense to have a docking station for each and every laptop not just for a subnotebook.

The current laptops are a mess of dangling cables. Some from the left, some for the right. Makes for a real messy desk and long time to connect and disconnect all the Sh!%.

Unlike the iMac, laptops used as desktops are a mess of cables.

I would also like the ability to slide out the DVD drive and replace it with a second battery.

[vinea]

I think it would make sense to have a docking station for each and every laptop not just for a subnotebook.


Agreed. Not so much on the extra battery but a docking station would be a great help.

Dont expect this beatie before September. The new higher density NANDs wont show up before summer and might get sucked into other things...like the Nano and iPhone...

Vinea

[hmurchison]

Yes you can do so much with a Dock.

I'd like to take a page out of HPs book and have a Dock with built in NAS for storage. That way not only is this content available to you but it's available over a network. Steal and idea from Sony's Dock which charges a second battery for you.

Faster optical drives can be used in the Dock and hopefully easy multiple monitor support. Spend money on the graphics chip in this notebook not adding redundant items for those who cherish power in a compact form factor.

Robson tech would be nice for the speedup and batter power saving.

Theres not much else you can talk about for sub-notebooks. People want them small, fast and light. It's how they interface with the rest of your network that will determine the final value to end users.

[digiology]

I wonder how big the screen will be. I can't imagine a 10" being too usefull even if only for bus trips.
Remember that patent filling a few months back where it showed a laptop which had a screen in the keyboard part with a virtual keyboard onscreen? That'd be amazing especially if you could unfold it out flat, turn it on its side to get a widewscreen picture!

[Bageljoey]

I'm not one of the sub-notebook people. I carry a 15" PB back and forth to work evey day and dont mind the heft. I like that it is complete and before I got the intel iMac it was my top computer for photo, video and the like. Just like back in the day when I had a PB160 when the DUOs were about.
That being said, I like the existance of the sub-notebook. I like that they push the envelope in size and change expectations. I don't expect to buy one, but I will cheer when they come out (if they are way cool).

[Ireland]

Not including an optical drive would be a mistake IMO, I would think about buying such a laptop from Apple only if it had an optical drive.

[Ireland]

That being said, I like the existance of the sub-notebook. I like that they push the envelope in size and change expectations. I don't expect to buy one, but I will cheer when they come out (if they are way cool).

I agree. Apple is a rapidly growing company, and has a ever growing userbase. It's probably time they expanded their computer lineup to a point of pleasing people with more niche needs. ie sub-notebook lovers. There's a number of people who would buy this thing, and even some who choose to go with a Viao and Windows because Apple doesn't currently have that solution. Another thing Apple really needs IMO is a budget 17 display. For say even $199, so people who buy a Mini can just add it at checkout.

I'm thinking about this sub-notebook though, I think with the long/extended timeline that Apple plans to do something more somehow, and not just a smaller, thinner MacBook, but something truly different from what they currently offer. Maybe they'll make it a tablet and not a sub-notebook at all. Now with all this Multi-touch® technology talk maybe this would look like a (very thin) notebook in the closed position, but when you open it the lid swings all the way round the back, magnetically holds to the back, and has subtle MacBook like feet for placing on a desk etc. Maybe this could be the true travel, take-it-anywhere computer, and an Apple eBook rolled into one.

[digiology]

Howdy neighbour ; )

[aegisdesign]

Not including an optical drive would be a mistake IMO, I would think about buying such a laptop from Apple only if it had an optical drive.

They already make laptops with optical drives, buy one of those. The rest of us want a sub notebook so ditching the drive that rarely gets used is a useful saving in space.

[Ireland]

They already make laptops with optical drives, buy one of those. The rest of us want a sub notebook so ditching the drive that rarely gets used is a useful saving in space.

I'm not alone. There's lots of other people who wouldn't be interested in it if it had no optical drive. If someone wanted to switch to Mac, wanted something this small that would be their only computer, they wouldn't be able to import music CD's or burn them etc. CD's are staying around for a while yet, so if it's gonna be a tiny notebook, at this point in time it would still need the optical drive IMO.

[Ireland]

Howdy neighbour ; )

I'll assume you mean me. Hello to you too. (Occupation = waster, made me laugh).

[vinea]

I'm not alone. There's lots of other people who wouldn't be interested in it if it had no optical drive. If someone wanted to switch to Mac, wanted something this small that would be their only computer, they wouldn't be able to import music CD's or burn them etc. CD's are staying around for a while yet, so if it's gonna be a tiny notebook, at this point in time it would still need the optical drive IMO.

A subnotebook with an external drive that also could live in the dock is just fine IMHO.

Typically these machines are judged on size and weight.

[Ireland]

A subnotebook with an external drive that also could live in the dock is just fine IMHO.

If it was done in the right way, then maybe. It could be an optional extra as part of the dock.

[JeffDM]

I think it would make sense to have a docking station for each and every laptop not just for a subnotebook.

The current laptops are a mess of dangling cables. Some from the left, some for the right. Makes for a real messy desk and long time to connect and disconnect all the Sh!%.

Unlike the iMac, laptops used as desktops are a mess of cables.

What makes a notebook worse than an iMac for cables? If you had to use a desktop KB & mouse, OK, iMac can have the same. An external drive would be the same either way, though an iMac can have larger drives, so there may be less pressure to have an external drive. The only thing is that the iMac keeps the connectors to the back, and Apple's notebooks put connectors on the side. And I do think that is a valid concern.

Oops, sorry they are no longer laptops, they are notebooks..... The more reason to have a docking station.

Have these businesses ever called them laptops in their marketing?

[kenaustus]

Before switching years ago I used the first in IBM's 3 pound X-Series and preferred it when going on long business trips. The lack of the optical drive hit me hard when a suitcase holding the external optical drive was lost and I had to pay a fortune in Auckland for a replacement.

WHile no optical drive is fine for, say, a student at college it can be the pits when taking an overseas business trip - actually even an in-country business trip.

I believe that Apple has the engineering talent to get one included and would far prefer that to a dock. I use an iCurve behind a 23" display for my PB and it only takes a few seconds to set it up. No big deal for me.

[JeffDM]

Yes you can do so much with a Dock.

I'd like to take a page out of HPs book and have a Dock with built in NAS for storage. That way not only is this content available to you but it's available over a network. Steal and idea from Sony's Dock which charges a second battery for you.

Faster optical drives can be used in the Dock and hopefully easy multiple monitor support. Spend money on the graphics chip in this notebook not adding redundant items for those who cherish power in a compact form factor.


I had a nice dock for my Compaq, it had halfway decent speakers, 3x PCI slots, one standard 5.25" drive bay and two multibay slots (for notebook drives or separate battery charging) plus all the standard IO connectors.

[F1Turbo]

I'm not alone. There's lots of other people who wouldn't be interested in it if it had no optical drive. If someone wanted to switch to Mac, wanted something this small that would be their only computer, they wouldn't be able to import music CD's or burn them etc. CD's are staying around for a while yet, so if it's gonna be a tiny notebook, at this point in time it would still need the optical drive IMO.

- I don't think a sub-notebook is a good choice to be your only computer. The idea is to trade off bulk, and features if necessary, for maximum portability. Buy a MB or MBPro instead if you're looking for a do-it-all portable
- I'm sure it would have at least USB, and most likely firewire, to add a DVD burner at home

I'd gladly ditch the optical drive. I very rarely use it. I'm still hanging on to my 12" PowerBook, and would really like to have something smaller still. I'd like to take a laptop with me when motorcycle touring, and space counts.

[JeffDM]

Before switching years ago I used the first in IBM's 3 pound X-Series and preferred it when going on long business trips. The lack of the optical drive hit me hard when a suitcase holding the external optical drive was lost and I had to pay a fortune in Auckland for a replacement.

A sub-3lb notebook no longer means sacrificing an optical drive. I think Sony's had one at 2.75lb, with optical drive, for over a year.

[aegisdesign]

Before switching years ago I used the first in IBM's 3 pound X-Series and preferred it when going on long business trips. The lack of the optical drive hit me hard when a suitcase holding the external optical drive was lost and I had to pay a fortune in Auckland for a replacement.

A few years ago I'd have agreed, but these days a USB memory stick is more useful than a CD or DVD burner and cheap enough. Plus wireless networking is both faster and more common. CDs are nearly as obsolete as floppies or ZIP drives except for playing pre-recorded material.

I've not bought software for a few years now that wasn't delivered electronically either.

[alexjb80]

I do not think you understand how Apple thinks. They will make something that will make people go wow.....

I think they will use the existing form factor of something like the Imac but thinner and you can pop the tablet in and out (which while in the IMAC dock will be the screen) but when popped out it will be your tablet with a simple piece to pop out to prop it up on the table when independent from the IMAC DOCK. I am sure they will use something crazy like a virtual keyboard and a mouse that will be bluetooth etc.....I think that would be truly cool.

[alexjb80]

I forgot to say that this would be more cost effective as they would already have the overhead supplies available in doing that design.

[Chucker]

I do not think you understand how Apple thinks. They will make something that will make people go wow.....

I think they will use the existing form factor of something like the Imac but thinner and you can pop the tablet in and out (which while in the IMAC dock will be the screen) but when popped out it will be your tablet with a simple piece to pop out to prop it up on the table when independent from the IMAC DOCK. I am sure they will use something crazy like a virtual keyboard and a mouse that will be bluetooth etc.....I think that would be truly cool.

And exactly how high were you when you came up with that? :)

[Rolo]

If this ultralight is to use flash only and no HD, maybe shipping in the fall is a marketing decision based on component prices. Gotta get the SSD down to a reasonable price. I don't see what Leopard has to do with it unless it needs one of those top secret features to make it work.

I think it'd be fine if it didn't have an optical drive onboard. Just use the external drive to load software and burn discs.

[vinea]

Before switching years ago I used the first in IBM's 3 pound X-Series and preferred it when going on long business trips. The lack of the optical drive hit me hard when a suitcase holding the external optical drive was lost and I had to pay a fortune in Auckland for a replacement.

WHile no optical drive is fine for, say, a student at college it can be the pits when taking an overseas business trip - actually even an in-country business trip.

I believe that Apple has the engineering talent to get one included and would far prefer that to a dock. I use an iCurve behind a 23" display for my PB and it only takes a few seconds to set it up. No big deal for me.

The dock I have used in the past had PCI slots and I think room for a HD in addition to the optical drive. A built in NAS would be great for an Apple dock. A PCIe slot would be as well.

When I connect my MBP I have to connect power, firewire, usb, ethernet and DVI. It's rather annoying when I'm trying to either set up to check mail quickly or get out the door quickly.

Dealkiller? No. Suboptimal? Yes.

As far as loosing an optical drive these days, while it would be annoying its not like you can't get a reasonably priced USB2 or Firewire replacement.

Vinea

[vinea]

If this ultralight is to use flash only and no HD, maybe shipping in the fall is a marketing decision based on component prices. Gotta get the SSD down to a reasonable price.

Component prices and availability. The new NAND wont be in full production before July.

Vinea

[melgross]

If this ultralight is to use flash only and no HD, maybe shipping in the fall is a marketing decision based on component prices. Gotta get the SSD down to a reasonable price. I don't see what Leopard has to do with it unless it needs one of those top secret features to make it work.

I think it'd be fine if it didn't have an optical drive onboard. Just use the external drive to load software and burn discs.

Apple is now trying to lock down more NAND, about 500 million more of them. The makers doubt they can produce all of the NAND Apple and other companies need.

I don't know if Apple would use NAND for this though.

This COULD be another reason for the delay. At least, I hope it is. The idea that they can't get it finished on time because of other projects really bothers me.

[nvidia2008]

Hot dang, subnotebook is a'comin!... it's just gonna take awhile, that's all. But my sig don't lie. ;)

.

You need to move house out of MiniTower into SubNotebook. ;) :D

[nvidia2008]

I'm not one of the sub-notebook people. I carry a 15" PB back and forth to work evey day and dont mind the heft. I like that it is complete and before I got the intel iMac it was my top computer for photo, video and the like. Just like back in the day when I had a PB160 when the DUOs were about.
That being said, I like the existance of the sub-notebook. I like that they push the envelope in size and change expectations. I don't expect to buy one, but I will cheer when they come out (if they are way cool).

I agree. Apple is a rapidly growing company, and has a ever growing userbase. It's probably time they expanded their computer lineup to a point of pleasing people with more niche needs. ie sub-notebook lovers. There's a number of people who would buy this thing, and even some who choose to go with a Viao and Windows because Apple doesn't currently have that solution. Another thing Apple really needs IMO is a budget 17 display. For say even $199, so people who buy a Mini can just add it at checkout.

I'm thinking about this sub-notebook though, I think with the long/extended timeline that Apple plans to do something more somehow, and not just a smaller, thinner MacBook, but something truly different from what they currently offer. Maybe they'll make it a tablet and not a sub-notebook at all. Now with all this Multi-touch® technology talk maybe this would look like a (very thin) notebook in the closed position, but when you open it the lid swings all the way round the back, magnetically holds to the back, and has subtle MacBook like feet for placing on a desk etc. Maybe this could be the true travel, take-it-anywhere computer, and an Apple eBook rolled into one.

I'm not alone. There's lots of other people who wouldn't be interested in it if it had no optical drive. If someone wanted to switch to Mac, wanted something this small that would be their only computer, they wouldn't be able to import music CD's or burn them etc. CD's are staying around for a while yet, so if it's gonna be a tiny notebook, at this point in time it would still need the optical drive IMO.

And exactly how high were you when you came up with that? :)

LOL :lol: :lol: :lol: ... Hmm... I am in luuuv with my MacBook Core[1]Duo 2ghz 2gb RAM, 13.3" 1280x800. Just nice for me. a MacBookPro is too "serious" for me right now. And too big.

But I defer to Bergermeister, after watching TokyoDrift I am definitely in the Apple needs to come up with subnotebook to compete viably in the Japan portable computing space. :D

[nvidia2008]

I do not think you understand how Apple thinks. They will make something that will make people go wow.....

I think they will use the existing form factor of something like the Imac but thinner and you can pop the tablet in and out (which while in the IMAC dock will be the screen) but when popped out it will be your tablet with a simple piece to pop out to prop it up on the table when independent from the IMAC DOCK. I am sure they will use something crazy like a virtual keyboard and a mouse that will be bluetooth etc.....I think that would be truly cool.

And exactly how high were you when you came up with that? :)

WORD. Full 3d-spatial holographics etc. The next frontier after resolution-independent UI and touchy-feely gesturing-stuff.

[atmospac]

Oh man! Ive been praying for a sub 15" notebook that would replace the old 12" G4....All I ask is for the option of a graphic card upgrade and preferably optical audio I/O. (macbook 64mb non dedicated vram? whats with that?....people said it would never happen.

All other specs should be enough for my needs, the way things are now.

bring it on and Im there with cash in my pocket!!!!!

(a dock sounds good+who needs an intergrated optical drive theese days;) )

[JeffDM]

Oh man! Ive been praying for a sub 15" notebook that would replace the old 12" G4....All I ask is for the option of a graphic card upgrade and preferably optical audio I/O. (macbook 64mb non dedicated vram? whats with that?....people said it would never happen.

All other specs should be enough for my needs, the way things are now.

bring it on and Im there with cash in my pocket!!!!!

(a dock sounds good+who needs an intergrated optical drive theese days;) )

If they are seriously considering dropping the optical drive, then I don't see why they would have graphics card options, which they really don't offer on any of their models right now. A discrete graphics module would take more space, weight and battery power, all three are demons to an ultraportable. Besides, I haven't seen an ultraportable that has discrete graphics, the 12" Powerbook doesn't fit current ultraportable standards. Hopefully the graphics chip in the new chipset will be as fast as Intel says it is.

[atmospac]

If they are seriously considering dropping the optical drive, then I don't see why they would have graphics card options, which they really don't offer on any of their models right now. A discrete graphics module would take more space, weight and battery power, all three are demons to an ultraportable.

oh, foul vanquisher of wishful thinking

...u know if external vidcards exist?

[digitalclips]

I wonder how big the screen will be. I can't imagine a 10" being too usefull even if only for bus trips.
Remember that patent filling a few months back where it showed a laptop which had a screen in the keyboard part with a virtual keyboard onscreen? That'd be amazing especially if you could unfold it out flat, turn it on its side to get a widewscreen picture!

My guess is same as yours; at least 13" wide screen with the iPhone's ability to auto rotate screen when you hold horizontally or vertically. USB for Keyboard and mouse if required or use on screen version and gestures. Imagine a pen too and you have a graphics tablet with 'paint on picture' ... drool.

And I agree with most everyone else, keep this baby light on extras and supply a dock. It may have a built in iPhone option too ... you never know!

With an AppleTV this is also a neat sit in bed and watch a movie device too ... oooh the possibilities are endless :)

[JeffDM]

oh, foul vanquisher of wishful thinking

...u know if external vidcards exist?

Yes, I think they do. You have to have an ExpressCard slot in order to use it, but that type of slot only includes a x1 PCIe lane. I'm not optimistic that Apple would include that slot.

[1984]

Apple is now trying to lock down more NAND, about 500 million more of them. The makers doubt they can produce all of the NAND Apple and other companies need.

I don't know if Apple would use NAND for this though.

This COULD be another reason for the delay. At least, I hope it is. The idea that they can't get it finished on time because of other projects really bothers me.

Looks like the iPhone has claimed another victim. Talk about putting all your eggs into one basket.

[Booga]

I think it would make sense to have a docking station for each and every laptop not just for a subnotebook.


Hear hear! I don't consider a notebook that doesn't have a docking station really very portable. I always want two screens, a mouse, a desktop keyboard, a network connection, and power when my notebook is sitting at my desk. If all those are plugged in individually, the notebook isn't easy to grab-n-go. That's one huge reason I like having a Dell laptop at work. (My home machine is still a G5, but the second Apple releases a notebook with a docking station it'll probably get upgraded to that.)

[EagerDragon]

What makes a notebook worse than an iMac for cables? If you had to use a desktop KB & mouse, OK, iMac can have the same. An external drive would be the same either way, though an iMac can have larger drives, so there may be less pressure to have an external drive. The only thing is that the iMac keeps the connectors to the back, and Apple's notebooks put connectors on the side. And I do think that is a valid concern.



Have these businesses ever called them laptops in their marketing?

Remember I was talking about all notebooks, not just the prety and light sub-notebook.

Apple currently puts ports btoh to the left and rigth of the machine. A lot of people are buying notebooks instead of desktops since power is very close and notebooks are very convenient.

However the mess of cables to the left and right of the notebook makes for a mess of cables on an otherwise pretty and elegant machine.

If the ports where in the back like they are in the iMac I would have less of an issue.

For as long as I remembers most notebook manufactures have made docking stations for notebooks, but Apple does not.

With a docking station you can leave all the cables connected to the back of the docking station and simply dock the machine to connect it to the rest of the devices like one or more monitors, usb and firewire drives, modem, ethernet connection, printer, etc.

Docking stations are very combinient and I would probably purchase 2 one for the house and one for the office.

A subnotebook can use one even more since it is smaller and there is less room for all the ports, Leave the drives connected to the dock, disconnect from the dock and run to the office with the nice and light subnotebook.

Just talking in general *** All notebooks can use a docking station ***

As to the term laptop, they been called laptops for a very long time. It is lately (last 2 or so years) that the machines been getting too hot to lay on yout lap that manufactorers have been calling them notebook instead.

Many of us old timers still call them laptops.

[EagerDragon]

I have bad eyes and need to wear glasses to use my current 15 inch powerbook.

A small subnotebook would not be in the cards for me unless it had a foldable (like in paper) screen that I could unfold to the size I need (15 to 20 inch), hehe.

But for you young fellas, I am sure would be great.

I dont mind the weigth and love the 15 inch screen.
Most of the weight in my bag is papers and other junk.

[samurai1999]

But I defer to Bergermeister, after watching TokyoDrift I am definitely in the Apple needs to come up with subnotebook to compete viably in the Japan portable computing space. :D

:lol: :lol:
Watching TokyoDrift?! I don't think that you or Apple should consider that a reliable way to get an understanding of anything Japanese! :no:
- nice car chases, and cute women, but apart from that a complete waste of time!
8-)

[melgross]

Oh man! Ive been praying for a sub 15" notebook that would replace the old 12" G4....All I ask is for the option of a graphic card upgrade and preferably optical audio I/O. (macbook 64mb non dedicated vram? whats with that?....people said it would never happen.

All other specs should be enough for my needs, the way things are now.

bring it on and Im there with cash in my pocket!!!!!

(a dock sounds good+who needs an intergrated optical drive theese days;) )

Forget it. These machines are even more limited as to upgrades such as video, then regular portables are. It's a matter of heat.

Besides, the lower the rez, the better the graphics chip will do.

[melgross]

Yes, I think they do. You have to have an ExpressCard slot in order to use it, but that type of slot only includes a x1 PCIe lane. I'm not optimistic that Apple would include that slot.

I don't see how that would happen.

[desarc]

you want a docking station for an ultraportable? get a mini. there's your optical drive, video out, etc. [all via 802.11 n] heck, just use your existing tower if you have one.

i would hope for 10" WXGA screen, less than 2/3" thick form factor, 32/64gb ssd, 1 usb, 1 firewire. wifi[n], iSight and bluetooth at 2 pounds.

what else do you need in an ULTRAportable? this would be great for me, i hate to have to lift my 7 pound laptop off the coffee table just to surf the web. [life is so tough] :P

[JeffDM]

you want a docking station for an ultraportable? get a mini. there's your optical drive, video out, etc. [all via 802.11 n] heck, just use your existing tower if you have one.

I don't think that is a good solution to the problem. To make that work and keep the two systems coherent, one would need .Mac, which would be at least $300 for the useful life of the system ($99x3 yrs.), on top of the cost of buying or running a second system. Most docks that I've seen are less than $300 and don't require a second system at all.

[SpamSandwich]

I think the imaginary sub-notebook was replaced with the iPod. I don't see the average computer user clamoring for this kind of product... but obviously there's a heck of a lot of interest in a phone-sized computer.

[aegisdesign]

Hear hear! I don't consider a notebook that doesn't have a docking station really very portable. I always want two screens, a mouse, a desktop keyboard, a network connection, and power when my notebook is sitting at my desk. If all those are plugged in individually, the notebook isn't easy to grab-n-go. That's one huge reason I like having a Dell laptop at work. (My home machine is still a G5, but the second Apple releases a notebook with a docking station it'll probably get upgraded to that.)

Wow, you still use cables for connecting things together! ;)

Have you heard of Bluetooth and Wireless networking? Wireless USB perhaps? Ring any bells yet?

[reinharden]

You're thinking like Dell and Microsoft when you say you want a single connection docking station.

You want a *zero* connection docking station.

You want a wireless protocol that allows you to drive a remote monitor with no cables! Theoretically probably UWB since 802.11n isn't quite fast enough, especially in a room full of such computers.

Secondly, you want proximity charging (aka inductive coupling) of your laptop so that you don't have to plug that dang thing in to power either.

Ideally, you don't even have to open it. Just set it on the desk, have it notice that it's near power and start charging; have it notice that it's near your wireless keyboard, mouse, and monitor, and automatically associate with them and let you know that it's ready and waiting.

Preferably with some automatic data synchronization so that my central data store is maintained mostly in sync with my portable datastore if I happened to have been briefly disconnected. Using a ZFS-based file system that can essentially journal block-by-block based changes via a greatly enhanced Time Machine to a .mac or Google based datastore means that your data is ubiquitously available and automatically backed up.

At least that's what I want out of a ultraportable and a "docking station".

reinharden

PS: Wireless charging isn't as far-fetched as you might think. When we were working on the early 802.11 products, we had quite a few problems with some factories that were attempting to deploy them. Turned out that they had extensive arrays of microwave powered fluorescent lights...also camped at 2.4 GHz. Needless to say that was not an optimum environment for 802.11b. ;-)

PPS: We don't recommend putting fluorescent bulbs in your microwave oven; however, if you have one that you don't want anymore, it will probably work. Of course, since a standard microwave putts out 500+ Watts of power and a normal fluorescent bulb might draw 20 Watts, it probably won't work very long. ;-)

[JeffDM]

I think the imaginary sub-notebook was replaced with the iPod.

Subnotebooks aren't imaginary. They exist. I don't see how an iPod can do a fraction of what a subnotebook is expected to do.

[melgross]

Subnotebooks aren't imaginary. They exist. I don't see how an iPod can do a fraction of what a subnotebook is expected to do.

It can do a fraction. Not a very useful fraction.

A question is whether the iPhone platform can, and will, serve as a base for future products that aren't phone-like so much, but computer-like.

The UMPC from MS would be an example of what I mean, but hopefully better.

[desarc]

the term "ultra portable" is pretty vague. i agree that the iPhone is essentially an ultra portable computer [there, it's not a smart phone]

Still, i think most people need something with a decent size screen and keyboard to do any real work. the iPhone keyboard should be great for texting and writing an quick email, but i can't imaging trying to type any large amount of text [a research paper for example] with a touchscreen keyboard, no matter how large the touchscreen is. you can't touch-type without any tactile feedback.

and yeah the mac mini might be bad as a docking station, but i do agree that there should be no need to physically "dock" your computer to connect to any periphs.

reinharden, as long as this new wireless docking ehphoria you're talking about has a 5-1/4 floppy i'm happy. [ohh, and i'd rather have a power cord than have testicular cancer from microwave charging of my laptop while it's on my lap.]

[Jeremy.Salter]

Can we call it the NANDbook??? 8-)

[JeffDM]

the term "ultra portable" is pretty vague. i agree that the iPhone is essentially an ultra portable computer [there, it's not a smart phone]

All previous uses of "ultraportable" I have seen have been small notebooks weighing 2 to 4lb in imperialist units, and iPhone doesn't fit. iPhone is probably a useful device, but other than very minor quibbles, it's a smart phone. In some respects, it may be a WebTV of smart phones, I don't see anything that removes it from that device category.


and yeah the mac mini might be bad as a docking station, but i do agree that there should be no need to physically "dock" your computer to connect to any periphs.

reinharden, as long as this new wireless docking ehphoria you're talking about has a 5-1/4 floppy i'm happy. [ohh, and i'd rather have a power cord than have testicular cancer from microwave charging of my laptop while it's on my lap.]

It's non-ionizing radiation, and with the power levels being discussed haven't been found to cause cancer in anything other than statements of FUD.

I'm not fond of wireless everything, even on a Mac, setting up and connecting wireless stuff is more tinkering than I think should be necessary. Other than for WiFi for mobile or light networking use, the speed reduction and power inefficiency of wireless isn't worth a few less cables.

[ChevalierMalFet]

Personally I'm of the opinion that Apple is paying/convincing analysts to talk up the potential of an ultra-portable to build up interest for a product to be released late 2008-early 2009.

Why else would the analysts follow up bullshit speculation with a CYA maneuver? They would just let the story die till convenient to bring it back up otherwise.

Apple knows what their suppliers can and can't produce. This NAND situation did not come as a surprise to them.

[Kolchak]

[ohh, and i'd rather have a power cord than have testicular cancer from microwave charging of my laptop while it's on my lap.]
Do they teach science in school anymore? Even if the EM radiation was of a harmful variety, your laptop would be a receiver while charging, not a transmitter. That means you should be more concerned about the charging station, not where the laptop is. Besides, microwave radiation of that low intensity isn't going to penetrate far into the body. You're better off worrying about being constantly bathed in the radiation from cell phones, cell towers, WiFi hotspots, TV transmitters, etc. Not that there's any documented harm in those, either, but it just shows how silly your concern is.

[umijin]

Apple's Japan sales are gonna continue to tank if they keep delaying an ultraportable.

Nobody here wants to drag around a 5 lb MacBrick, err... MacBook, on the train to work 300 days per year when there are plenty of light, powerful Windoze laptops available.

It's pathetic to think Apple can't address the needs of the 2nd biggest consumer market in the world. And it's even worse to think that an overemphasis on the iPhone (which won't get to Japan for a few years) may be contributing to this.

Now you know the downside of allowing egomaniacs to run major corporations.

Tunnel Vision.

[TheMadMilkman]

Apple's Japan sales are gonna continue to tank if they keep delaying an ultraportable.

Nobody here wants to drag around a 5 lb MacBrick, err... MacBook, on the train to work 300 days per year when there are plenty of light, powerful Windoze laptops available.

It's pathetic to think Apple can't address the needs of the 2nd biggest consumer market in the world. And it's even worse to think that an overemphasis on the iPhone (which won't get to Japan for a few years) may be contributing to this.

Now you know the downside of allowing egomaniacs to run major corporations.

Tunnel Vision.

It may be tunnel vision, but it revitalized a dieing company. Apple is where it is because they discarded everything that wasn't necessary and started from scratch. They went from way too many products to a few, well-designed products. They focused their marketing. Sales increased, perception increased, etc.

Apple is branching out SLOWLY. The iPod? Excellent success. The iTunes Store? Great. The iPhone? Probably a winner. iTV? Gaining popularity. When you think about how long some of these things have taken to be released, it can be frustrating. But I'd rather have a company expand slowly and do it well then expand too quickly and overextend themselves. You know, kind of like Microsoft, who wants a piece of everything, even though in the end they really only make money off of their core OS/Office business.

There are plenty of things that I wish Apple did different. I want a subnotebook. I know plenty of people that want one too. I also want a mini tower, since the Mac Pro is too much for what I need, the mini doesn't cover it, and I don't want an all-in-one like the iMac. Maybe I'll get what I want someday. It looks more and more possible that an ultraportable will happen, which makes me happy. But I'll also understand why Apple operates the way that it does. They simply have more to lose.

Also, with whoever said it earlier, YES! Apple needs to release a 17" widescreen display. Absolutely! I would buy it in a heartbeat.

[palegolas]

Apple's patent applications a while ago revealed plans for a different kind of optical drive that will take less space than the slot in. Let's see what happens with that. I generally don't like docks, because of their un portable nature. I'd go for a new universal port that branches out into several ports with an external multi connection adapter.

[thebeat]

do we even care about Ultra Portable? Get with it Apple, we want better MacBook Pro that are lighter and more powerful and LBL

[JeffDM]

As to the term laptop, they been called laptops for a very long time. It is lately (last 2 or so years) that the machines been getting too hot to lay on yout lap that manufactorers have been calling them notebook instead.

Many of us old timers still call them laptops.

Do you have any old print copies of ads or other corporate material calling them "laptop"? I don't remember seeing any. Right now, I have a copy of PC/Computing from 1998 and ALL of the ads I see refer to the machines as notebooks, a few do call them portables. No laptop in sight.

I stand by my previous statement. I think laptop is just an informal term.

[Bergermeister]

Apple's Japan sales are gonna continue to tank if they keep delaying an ultraportable.

Nobody here wants to drag around a 5 lb MacBrick, err... MacBook, on the train to work 300 days per year when there are plenty of light, powerful Windoze laptops available.

It's pathetic to think Apple can't address the needs of the 2nd biggest consumer market in the world. And it's even worse to think that an overemphasis on the iPhone (which won't get to Japan for a few years) may be contributing to this.

Now you know the downside of allowing egomaniacs to run major corporations.

Tunnel Vision.


Oh, man of the sea, how I tend to agree!

Without a subnotebook, Apple will not sell to multitudes of young and active Japanese business people.

Apple Japan sucks, majorly, and sales are down over last year (if that was possible), even with the hot MBs, MBPs and iMacs. These are just not products for the Japanese market.

PDAs like the Clie don't sell that much here now, but subportables are hard to keep in stock. My wife just switched back to PCs when she found something almost 1/3 the weight and half the size of her MB, thus making it far, far, far easier for her to carry it wherever she goes. Indeed, she uses it every day now, and the MB is going to a used computer shop next week...

[shanmugam]

Can we call it the NANDbook??? 8-)

Great first post, Welcome to AI.

Nope, we are used to Minis, Nanos and Pros ;)

[Bergermeister]

do we even care about Ultra Portable? Get with it Apple, we want better MacBook Pro that are lighter and more powerful and LBL

Yes, we do, and yes, that would be nice, too!

There are markets for both.

[macarena]

Apple's first NAND-Flash memory based computer is unlikely to be (or should not be) the ultra portable mentioned in this article. Quite simply because the potential market for this device, and the premium that customers would be willing to pay for this device would be too small to justify the efforts of including NAND-Flash. Instant-on is a necessity in the iPhone, but most customers would be happy with a one-minute start up for an ultra-portable. There are power savings, yes, but the premium price might not be worth that.

Consider a Mac Mini that is modified in following way - NAND Flash memory, power switch and USB ports moved from rear to front, rejigged to operate on 12V power instead of 19V power - all these are extremely simple engineering accomplishments, except the NAND-Flash - but if Apple is going to integrate NAND Flash into one architecture, the extra work to incorporate it into the Mac mini is not all that much extra.

Now, take this modified Mac Mini, and increase the depth by another 2 inches - we now have a device with exact form factor as car-audio devices, so this Mac mini mod can be the perfect Car Computer. If Apple works on a GPS solution, and adds in iDash (from the iDash open source project) as the software to interact with the Mac Mini, you have a perfect car solution.

Of the additional 2 inches of depth, one inch in the rear can be used for sensor electronics - so that the Mac Mini can get variety of inputs from the car like speed, fuel remaining, fuel efficiency, trip meter info, all of which can be integrated with iDash to integrate car management functionality as well. Can also be used for GPS receiver and EDGE/3G based cellular networking hardware - one single external antenna that integrates GPS, EDGE/3G, as well as FM Radio reception. The second inch can be used in the front - to have a removable HDD and Compact Flash slots. This way you can easily pull out the HDD, connect it to your computer at home, and update the music, video, etc for use on the move.

This solution potentially has a MUCH larger market than we can think of. Except for the car sensors, this can be integrated into existing cars as well. Apple can work with the car manufacturers and license the technology for the sensors - so that this device can be fully integrated into future cars. They already work with the car manufacturers on iPod integration, so this is not that big a deal. Or else, third party manufacturers can sell kits that integrate this computer with the built in sensors already present in each car.

Mac Mini already supports BlueTooth, so it is easy to have a BlueTooth based handsfree integrated with this solution. Also BlueTooth can be used for the external remote antenna as well.

Someone buying a $25,000 car would not be that averse to adding in a $1000 solution that gives him so much more functionality and transforms his car into a high end vehicle. The best part of this solution is that most of the functionality is already present. Most of the changes (except NAND Flash) are relatively cosmetic in nature, and will not change the costs of the device too much. Mac Mini already has good acceptance at current price points, and if the additional modifications dont add over $200 in price, the acceptance would be EVEN higher. Apple could also use this to increase market share vis-a-vis Windows - as there would not be effective competition in this space for quite some time - esp. not with NAND Flash memory.

Instant-On which is the most important benefit of NAND-Flash is extremely useful for a Car Computer, and people will be willing to pay a premium for this facility in this environment.

The only risk is that this could possibly eat into iPod sales for car-use - but even this can be intelligently converted into a plus - if this device has an iPod docking station, then it can be paired with an iPod easily. And people use their iPods not just in their cars - so they could use this solution in their cars, and use their iPods everywhere else. Considering that this solution would offer the best integration with the iPod, it could even be used to entrench the iPod even further.

[Bergermeister]

Very nice first post... welcome to AI! Interesting idea for the mini; not only cars, but boats could benefit as well.

I still want my ultra portable MacBook Nano!

Abot the size of a DVD case would be awesome, and, as I am a pro user, cost is not really an issue, as long as the specs are right.

[vinney57]

I think these have been delayed only in the sense of 'its not time to release them yet'

I dare say its been 'Steved' for six months; which means it wasn't good enough.

[georgep]

All I want is a Mac OS on a Sony Vaio TX or SZ series notebook. Sony manages to make light and portable laptops with good battery life, and optical drives. Why do I have to buy a Sony to have it? I don't want Windows, and see no excuse for Apple. Come on Steve!

[vinea]

Apple's first NAND-Flash memory based computer is unlikely to be (or should not be) the ultra portable mentioned in this article. Quite simply because the potential market for this device, and the premium that customers would be willing to pay for this device would be too small to justify the efforts of including NAND-Flash.


The Sony SZ is $2800. You underestimate the premium that folks will pay for an ultraportable. The size of the market is such that there are multiple ultraportable offerings so I'm going to guess you underestimate the market size as well.


Instant-on is a necessity in the iPhone, but most customers would be happy with a one-minute start up for an ultra-portable. There are power savings, yes, but the premium price might not be worth that.


Instant on means you get to start using your notebook right when the meeting kicks off, or you have a free moment and need to check something or whatever. 1 min is too slow.


This solution potentially has a MUCH larger market than we can think of. Except for the car sensors, this can be integrated into existing cars as well. Apple can work with the car manufacturers and license the technology for the sensors - so that this device can be fully integrated into future cars.


Nothing you described can't be handled by a PDA...or iPhone...

A mini is pretty much overkill.

Vinea

[Haggar]

Remember I was talking about all notebooks, not just the prety and light sub-notebook.
For as long as I remembers most notebook manufactures have made docking stations for notebooks, but Apple does not.


In addition, Apple doesn't seem to mind selling iPod docks, even though iPods are smaller and have fewer connectors than any ultra-portable notebook. And isn't the iPhone also going to have an available dock?

[Rolo]

I'm sure a thin, light ultra-portble would be a very desirable thing to have for many people and it needn't be too expensive. Apple's history tells us what might happen. Seize upon the latest technology and use your buying power to get the best prices. That's how the iPod happened.

HD or NAND?

A 1.8" high capacity HD could be used to keep the cost down. A hybrid Mac could use both a tiny HD and some NAND flash. An all-flash SSD is also possible. Samsung just mentioned 16Gb flash chips. (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/30/samsung-ships-16gb-nand-flash-memory/) Put 8 of them together and you have a tiny 16GB flash card smaller than the 4GB card currently used in the 4GB nano. Put 4 of those little cards together and you have a 64GB SSD in the same space as a 1.8" HD.

By early next year, such SSDs will be at an affordable price point. Lots of advantages of flash memory like higher speed, longer battery life, lighter weight, and much more durability.

As for the timing of this, the technology and cost structure need to converge at the right point. You need high density flash at a good price point and a powerful but cool CPU that's easy on the battery and the wallet. For that, Penryn would fit the bill and that won't be ready until early next year. It's looking like that's when it's all coming together. MWSF would be a good venue.

[vinea]

A 1.8" high capacity HD could be used to keep the cost down. A hybrid Mac could use both a tiny HD and some NAND flash. An all-flash SSD is also possible. Samsung just mentioned 16Gb flash chips. (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/30/samsung-ships-16gb-nand-flash-memory/) Put 8 of them together and you have a tiny 16GB flash card smaller than the 4GB card currently used in the 4GB nano. Put 4 of those little cards together and you have a 64GB SSD in the same space as a 1.8" HD.


They've announced a long time ago and, well I wouldn't call it sampling as much as showing chips at conferences. Toshiba has announced mass production of their 16Gb NAND in June and sampling...well today unless they are late (late March/early April they said April).

SanDisk just announced a 32GB 2.5" for $350...presumably still using much older NAND. Their 1.8" reputedly sells for less than $600 to OEMs using 8Gb NAND from the pics. The Samsung 32GB 1.8" uses the same NAND as in the Nano and is what's going in their UMPCs.


As for the timing of this, the technology and cost structure need to converge at the right point. You need high density flash at a good price point and a powerful but cool CPU that's easy on the battery and the wallet. For that, Penryn would fit the bill and that won't be ready until early next year. It's looking like that's when it's all coming together. MWSF would be a good venue.

This year might be pushing things a little given availability of NAND. But with Samsung and others aready hitting the market NAND based laptops and UMPCs and I think Sony has made noises (can't recall now) I'd say this year is possible if unlikely.

Edit: Oh hey...Samsung finally announced mass production. Sorry...my bad, thought it was yet another one of Samsung's "Uh...we're going to REALLY sample...uh, next month...really" announcements. Mass production is great news. I guess they have beat Toshiba by 2 months after all.

Vinea

[vinea]

Mmm...I wonder is iPhone will still make June...when Samsung released their 8Gb chips last year Apple followed by 2 months with a new Nano using those chips. Its still possible the iPhone will use the new 16Gb chips...Samsung HAS been sampling them a long time...but early June looks real real tight.

Vinea

[rtdunham]

Do you have any old print copies of ads or other corporate material calling them "laptop"? I don't remember seeing any. Right now, I have a copy of PC/Computing from 1998 and ALL of the ads I see refer to the machines as notebooks, a few do call them portables. No laptop in sight.

I stand by my previous statement. I think laptop is just an informal term.

From Engadget, yesterday:
"Remember that 20-inch HP HDX Pavilion laptop from yesterday? Well, more shots of the massive gaming laptop have turned up from different angles to give us a better idea of how this top-end laptop looks. This new angle puts the HDX closer in style to the traditional laptop form factor than its main "inspiration," the Dell XPS M2010. Still, the sheer size of the screen coupled with the remote means that this is a laptop with one helluva identity crisis: is it best to think of it as a portable home entertainment system, or a maxed out machine for those with very wide laps?"

[woofer]

Very nice first post... welcome to AI! Interesting idea for the mini; not only cars, but boats could benefit as well.

I still want my ultra portable MacBook Nano!

Abot the size of a DVD case would be awesome, and, as I am a pro user, cost is not really an issue, as long as the specs are right.

So it could be called a NANObook!

[JeffDM]

From Engadget, yesterday:

I don't think Engadget counts, for one, they are a lot more informal than professional, and they don't make anything. My point was that no maker of notebook computers ever called them "laptops" that I've seen, and calling them notebooks is not a recent trend.

[melgross]

I don't think Engadget counts, for one, they are a lot more informal than professional, and they don't make anything. My point was that no maker of notebook computers ever called them "laptops" that I've seen, and calling them notebooks is not a recent trend.

Are you guys talking about an identity crisis?

Notebooks are just called notebooks. That's simply because they aren't much larger than, well, notebooks.

But the term laptop has been around pretty much from the beginning. It used to stand for portables that were (finally!) small, and light enough, to be placed directly on one's lap. At the time the term came into being, there were no machines small enough to be called notebooks. That came later.

[Bergermeister]

Are we searching for a politically-correct term that doesn't offend any computers already out there?

Compact, all-in-one computer that is relatively portable (depending on various factors), may or may not be able to be used comfortably on a lap (depending on various factors) and normally has a flipping lid much in the way a notebook flips open.

I'm sure that someone could do better, but what is the point? Notebook = Laptop in common usage.