Safari [Archive] - AppleInsider

KidRed

01-07-2003, 03:48 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Escher:
My initial thoughts about Safari (beta v84):

* I cannot stand the brushed metal look. Yeuck!
* it is slightly faster than Chimera (01/06 build) on my iBook/500/320
* I am pleasantly surprised that it blocks pop-ups
* Bookmarks management is no good until I can import my Chimera bookmarks
* don't really care about the lack of tabs

I'm sticking with Chimera for now. But there's a good chance I'll switch when Safari 1.0 hits the street.

Escher<hr></blockquote>

For chimera bookmarks, remember this is iTunes for the web. Drag each bookmark over and put them whereever you want. You can't do more then one but it's a simple drag and drop into the bookmarks menu.

It blocks ALL pop ups tho :( I hope they allow linked pop ups in the future along with a few other options.

Horned_Frog

01-07-2003, 03:48 PM

I love it.

Brushed metal looks GREAT IMHO, I like the bookmark management (i was toying with ToolBars in IE--I like this better), it is faster than IE for me (I never really used Chimera). This is my default browser now, no doubts. EXCELLENT job, Apple! :D

murk

01-07-2003, 03:50 PM

[quote]Originally posted by MacsRGood4U:
 Also as far as I can tell I can't transfer my bookmarks from I.E. <hr></blockquote>

My Explorer favorites were automatically imported by Safari. Look at the bottom of the bookmark window.

KidRed

01-07-2003, 03:50 PM

[quote]Originally posted by AirSluf:
Are there some Apple :p shennanigans going on in Safari???

I havent been able to load MOSR or ThinkSecret at all, although both work just fine in OW 4.1.1 literally side by side. Safari just gives an unable to load page for 30 seconds sheet and ceases trying.

It also doesn't FULLY subscribe to the spelling service which I consider a major flaw even in Beta status as service integration isn't that difficult, especially for the homegrown services. You can access the Spelling service through the contextual menu, but we already know it should be properly available without the CM in a properly written Cocoa app. Well bug report to be submitted.

I do like the speed though. Has anyone figured out how to painlessly import OW bookmarks?

[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: AirSluf ]<hr></blockquote>

As with Chimera, try to open OW's bookmarks and drag them over into the bookmark well as you would mp3s into iTunes. Worked for me on Chimera.

The Wiz

01-07-2003, 03:51 PM

I'm sorry, but Safari kicks ass, plain and simple.....IE, Chimera, and Opera are all in the Trash.....

Proxy

01-07-2003, 03:52 PM

Wow..my imac800 is fast at browsing!
Feel sorry for the guys at Omni but Safari is miles superior. IE is not going to be used anymore either after sfari handled even barclays online banking many times faster.
Renders beautifully on every site I've been to.

Best MW in ages.

EmAn

01-07-2003, 03:58 PM

[quote]Originally posted by murk:


My Explorer favorites were automatically imported by Safari. Look at the bottom of the bookmark window.<hr></blockquote>
Mine were too.

MacsRGood4U

01-07-2003, 04:01 PM

Thanks guys found the IE Bookmarks list and the change url name! Just had to login again. I like it.

[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: MacsRGood4U ]

Orthodoc

01-07-2003, 04:43 PM

I also wish that when you clicked the address bar it would highlight the whole address so you can type a new one without either triple clicking or backspacing to erase the old address before enter the new one. This make sense?

Richard

01-07-2003, 05:08 PM

I second that. Another thing I noticed: there's no shortcut for window cycling, that really annoys me, I use it all the time in IE.

Otherwise: Great app, great keynote!!!

IToldYouSo

01-07-2003, 05:12 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Richard:
I second that. Another thing I noticed: there's no shortcut for window cycling, that really annoys me, I use it all the time in IE.
<hr></blockquote>

Command-tilde

cylon

01-07-2003, 05:12 PM

Liked it but still need work. It needs IE's autofill and Chimera's Keychain access. If it gets those, we'll see.

Escher

01-07-2003, 05:14 PM

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
For chimera bookmarks, remember this is iTunes for the web. Drag each bookmark over and put them whereever you want. You can't do more then one but it's a simple drag and drop into the bookmarks menu.<hr></blockquote>

Thanks for the tip, KidRed. I obviously haven't spent enough time with the brushed metal generation of apps.

I was trying to figure out why Safari didn't import my IE bookmarks. Then I realized that I no longer have IE bookmarks because I never use IE anymore. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Escher

sCreeD

01-07-2003, 05:17 PM

If you have a small to medium number of bookmarks, dragging each is fine, but I'm a bit of an archivist so I have many bookmarks.

I really, really miss tabbed browsing.

Screed

[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: sCreeD ]

Richard

01-07-2003, 05:20 PM

[quote]Originally posted by IToldYouSo:


Command-tilde<hr></blockquote>

Hmm.... I thought so, too, first, 'cause it's the same in IE, and that works there, too, for me. BUT: I'm using Swiss keylayout, and in IE Command-Option-n (to get tilde) works, but not so in Safari. In Safari this shortcut creates a new folder for bookmarks... Any ideas?

KidRed

01-07-2003, 05:22 PM

[quote]Originally posted by cylon:
Liked it but still need work. It needs IE's autofill and Chimera's Keychain access. If it gets those, we'll see.<hr></blockquote>

It has keychain access. So it;s only missing autofill, downlaod manager with open/save dialog, better spell check, and let linked pop up windows open. Otherwsie, it rocks!

JLL

01-07-2003, 05:27 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Richard:


Hmm.... I thought so, too, first, 'cause it's the same in IE, and that works there, too, for me. BUT: I'm using Swiss keylayout, and in IE Command-Option-n (to get tilde) works, but not so in Safari. In Safari this shortcut creates a new folder for bookmarks... Any ideas?<hr></blockquote>

Use the same shortcut as in the rest of Mac OS X: Cmd-< (Cmd-> cycles the other way).

foad

01-07-2003, 05:28 PM

ast3r3x

01-07-2003, 05:28 PM

i hope these are all suggestions to final versions, sounds like complaints that it doent have, just a reminder this is beta...hope apple is reading this...GOOD JOB

Mark- Card Carrying FanaticRealist

01-07-2003, 05:29 PM

Let's remember it's a beta of a Rev 1.0 product!

I'm using it to view all of the forum activity here at AI, just cause it moves like a raped ape even on dial-up. I like the fact that it's so simple, and can't help but feel that its design principles are founded on a future destiny of being used in something smaller and tablet-like.

Can you imagine what this will be like by the time release 3.0 evolves. More functionality + this rendering speed = Yummmy!

Richard

01-07-2003, 06:16 PM

[quote]Originally posted by JLL:


Use the same shortcut as in the rest of Mac OS X: Cmd-< (Cmd-> cycles the other way).<hr></blockquote>

YES! Thanks, works great and it's a really convenient one-handed one.

foad

01-07-2003, 06:19 PM

I totally dig it! It is fast for me and it even works with certain heavy sites that would kill IE.

I like certain things from Chimera but this is a great product with serious hope for the future.

Great work to the developers over at Apple.

vas

01-07-2003, 06:20 PM

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:


It has keychain access. So it;s only missing autofill, downlaod manager with open/save dialog, better spell check, and let linked pop up windows open. Otherwsie, it rocks!<hr></blockquote>

Can you describe how you got keychain access to work? Maybe I'm blind, but I'm missing it...

RussS

01-07-2003, 06:25 PM

[quote] I also wish that when you clicked the address bar it would highlight the whole address so you can type a new one without either triple clicking or backspacing to erase the old address before enter the new one. This make sense?

It does. Just click on the icon next to the URL. It highlights the whole thing. Is that what you were lookin' for? <hr></blockquote>

Hitting the Tab key works too. No mouse needed :)

Edit: Whoops! It doesn't work so well if there are a lot of text entry fields on the web page. Oh well :(

[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: RussS ]

[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: RussS ]

Lemon Bon Bon

01-07-2003, 06:28 PM

"I'm sorry, but Safari kicks ass, plain and simple.....IE, Chimera, and Opera are all in the Trash....."

Kicks the crap out of, eh?

;)

Apple software browser is King. And they're only beta...

Lemon Bon Bon <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

JLL

01-07-2003, 06:30 PM

Apple's letter to the KDE community:

<a href="http://lists.kde.org/?l=kfm-devel&m=104197092318639&w=2" target="_blank">http://lists.kde.org/?l=kfm-devel&m=104197092318639&w=2</a>

(it also lists the people who made Safari at Apple - interesting people).

FormerLurker

01-07-2003, 06:36 PM

Looks great so far. May replace both IE and Chimera for me.

Linux crowd seems VERY pleased:

<a href="http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2003-01-07-022-26-OS-KE-SW" target="_blank">http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2003-01-07-022-26-OS-KE-SW</a>

TiSteve

01-07-2003, 06:44 PM

I have a question that maybe someone can answer for me.

I am not particular fond of links that are underlined, and I have not found a way to turn this off in Safari.

Can anyone tell me if I can accomplish this, along with the setting of colors for visited and non visited links, with the use of a Style Sheet?

moki

01-07-2003, 06:45 PM

For those of you who are running Mac OS X, you really owe it to yourself to check out the beta of Safari, Apple's new web browser. I'm using it right now, and I'm quite impressed. The speed is impressive, certainly much, much faster than Internet Explorer, and faster than Netscape and Chimera as well.

You need to be running Mac OS X 10.2 for it to work, but you can grab it here for free:

<a href="http://www.apple.com/safari/" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/safari/</a>

It is a fairly basic browser, UI-wise, which is actually a good thing, IMHO. There are a few features I'd like to see implemented, but the speed it renders with makes it worth using *now*, despite these omissions:

-- Tabbed browsing; Chimera and Netscape have it, and while I'm not as enamoured with it as some people seem to be, it can be quite handy

-- Spell checking in text fields. With all of the web board postings I do, I'd really like to have Apple's spell check integrated into it. I'm sure this will come

-- Keychain support. Chimera integrates nicely with Apple's keychain for web site passwords; I wish Apple supported its own technology and used this as well

Other than that, everything has been quite nice. Given that it is still a beta, I'm sure we can expect things like the Keychain and Spell Checking to be supported. Tabbed browsing may be something Apple eschews, for simplicity's sake, but we shall see.

All in all, two thumbs up. God, it is so nice to throw Internet Explorer in the trash.

Lemon Bon Bon

01-07-2003, 06:50 PM

"God, it is so nice to throw Internet Explorer in the trash."

:D

I love it when you talk dirty, Moki...

;)

Lemon Bon Bon

:cool:

physguy

01-07-2003, 06:51 PM

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:


For chimera bookmarks, remember this is iTunes for the web. Drag each bookmark over and put them whereever you want. You can't do more then one but it's a simple drag and drop into the bookmarks menu.

It blocks ALL pop ups tho :( I hope they allow linked pop ups in the future along with a few other options.<hr></blockquote>

I used the following technique to get a large number of bookmarks from Chimera to Safari using the fact that Safari loads all IE bookmarks on FIRST launch

1) remove Safari references from Preferences and Library
2) in Chimera, Export bookmarks
3) in IE Delete all book marks and import those exported in 2)
4) Launch Safari. All were there.

I like Safar a lot BUT it isn't handling one thing which is critical for me.

I have a lot of manuals, like PHP_Manual, served locally through the Apache server at <a href="http://localhost/Manuals." target="_blank">http://localhost/Manuals.</a> When I load the first page all is fine but when I click on a link to go to a sub page Safari drops the 'localhost' and changes Manuals to manuals and I always get a page not found. This also screws up the Adobe manuals with their nice search function, etc. They don't even show up due to the mis-mapping of file locations.

moki

01-07-2003, 07:10 PM

I withdrawl one of my criticisms of Safari -- it does indeed have spell checking, it just isn't on by default (why, I don't know).

Simply go to: Edit->Check Spelling as you Type

...and there you go. Not bad; probably should be on by default, though.

whoami

01-07-2003, 07:32 PM

flash is really slow in safari,
even slower than in IE.
i know many people don't like flash,
but it's an essential piece for me!
anybody noticed this?

Rhoq

01-07-2003, 07:36 PM

Overall, I am finding Safari to be just as slow as IE 5.2.2

It looks like I will be sticking with Chimera (0.6 Build ID: 2002112604) for a while.

chromos

01-07-2003, 07:47 PM

I hope that the underlying rendering engine of Safari can be used in Help Viewer. That app needs a good kick in the pants.

AirSluf

01-07-2003, 07:48 PM

Kickaha

01-07-2003, 07:58 PM

OW bookmark files are just HTML... easy to parse, in theory.

But... Safari has *ZERO* AppleScript support. Shaaaaaaaaaame.

It's a beta, but shaaaaaaaaaame.

Would make it much easier to add bookmarks programatically.

Edit: OTOH, Safari bookmarks file is a plist. Easy to make programmatically. But just not with AppleScript.

But it's in ~/Library/Safari/

Shaaaaaaaaame. Shouldn't that be in either a) ~/Library/Bookmarks/ (and HTML so other browsers can share), or b) in ~/Library/Application Support/Safari/

[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: Kickaha ]

Quick

01-07-2003, 08:03 PM

Not that I couldn't care less what M$ is doing. But will they cease developing Internet Explorer?

Kickaha

01-07-2003, 08:07 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Orthodoc:
I also wish that when you clicked the address bar it would highlight the whole address so you can type a new one without either triple clicking or backspacing to erase the old address before enter the new one. This make sense?<hr></blockquote>

Yes, but if they do that I'll SCREAM.

One of the hallmarks of the Mac is that the UI is *consistent*.

Quick... in Windows, how do you select a single word of text in a text field? Well, in IE, it's Single click, pause, double click. If it's in the URL field. Otherwise it's double click. If it's Excel, it's double-click... unless it's in the formula field. See what I mean? Bleah.

The URL field is a text field. Single click sets the cursor, double-click selects a word, triple-click selects the line. Consistent.

I HATE the way IE does it. Hate, hate, hate.

physguy

01-07-2003, 08:08 PM

[quote]Originally posted by AirSluf:
KidRed, dragging the links was the first thing I did, but it is quite painful when you have a link library of several thousand that is already nicely organized to keep that bulk painlessly useful. I'm looking for a wholesale import that maintains heirarchical sub-folders.

[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: AirSluf ]<hr></blockquote>

Try the following I posted earlier. The sub-folders are maintained and you can simply drag them from the IE import to wherever you want.

I used the following technique to get a large number of bookmarks from Chimera to Safari using the fact that Safari loads all IE bookmarks on FIRST launch

1) remove Safari references from Preferences and Library
2) in Chimera, Export bookmarks
3) in IE Delete all book marks and import those exported in 2)
4) Launch Safari. All were there.

BuonRotto

01-07-2003, 08:13 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Quick:
Not that I couldn't care less what M$ is doing. But will they cease developing Internet Explorer?<hr></blockquote>

I would bet that they were or now are tying it in with MSN for Mac, and either were or are now planning on making it exclusive for that ISP.

DoughBoy

01-07-2003, 08:24 PM

Moki said:

[quote]Tabbed browsing may be something Apple eschews, for simplicity's sake, but we shall see.<hr></blockquote>

I could see Apple including this feature, but leaving it off by default. That would seem to be a good compromise.

Quick

01-07-2003, 08:27 PM

[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:


I would bet that they were or now are tying it in with MSN for Mac, and either were or are now planning on making it exclusive for that ISP.<hr></blockquote>

I didn't know that MSN is a service provider. So, will they do something similar like AOL? Providing a unique browser to access their content via dedicated ISP?

KidRed

01-07-2003, 08:32 PM

[quote]Originally posted by moki:
For those of you who are running Mac OS X, you really owe it to yourself to check out the beta of Safari, Apple's new web browser. I'm using it right now, and I'm quite impressed. The speed is impressive, certainly much, much faster than Internet Explorer, and faster than Netscape and Chimera as well.

You need to be running Mac OS X 10.2 for it to work, but you can grab it here for free:

<a href="http://www.apple.com/safari/" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/safari/</a>

It is a fairly basic browser, UI-wise, which is actually a good thing, IMHO. There are a few features I'd like to see implemented, but the speed it renders with makes it worth using *now*, despite these omissions:

-- Tabbed browsing; Chimera and Netscape have it, and while I'm not as enamoured with it as some people seem to be, it can be quite handy

-- Spell checking in text fields. With all of the web board postings I do, I'd really like to have Apple's spell check integrated into it. I'm sure this will come

-- Keychain support. Chimera integrates nicely with Apple's keychain for web site passwords; I wish Apple supported its own technology and used this as well

Other than that, everything has been quite nice. Given that it is still a beta, I'm sure we can expect things like the Keychain and Spell Checking to be supported. Tabbed browsing may be something Apple eschews, for simplicity's sake, but we shall see.

All in all, two thumbs up. God, it is so nice to throw Internet Explorer in the trash.<hr></blockquote>

Spelling does work in text fileds, surprised you didn't know to choose 'check spelling as you type'. It doesn't stay on all the time, but it does work.

Also, keychain access in intergrrated, I'm not sure why people think it's not. Go to a site, input your pass and then quit Safari. Then relauncha nd go back to that site and the keychain dialog pops up for permission to access keychain.

Little surprised moki ;)

My issues are-

-download manager has no open/save dialog. Everything saves to 1 directory which is very annoying. I'll still have to use Chimera or IE for grabbing graphic content for my web site clients.

-autofill

-pop ups are either on or off. So in the off poisition, a link that pops a window won't work. Quite a few sites will pop a window with linked content (flash sites a lot too) so I can't block pop ups until they add the 'unless clicked by link' option like Chimera.

-spell check is flaky but works, hope they iron that out.

-I'd like a print button.

Otehrwise, for a beta, this thing rocks. It's a .8 release so it's a little further along then Chimera but good enough to become my default browser :) bye bye IE

KidRed

01-07-2003, 08:35 PM

Orthodoc

01-07-2003, 08:39 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RussS:
[QB]

Hitting the Tab key works too. No mouse needed :)

Edit: Whoops! It doesn't work so well if there are a lot of text entry fields on the web page. Oh well :(

Thanks for the reply, clicking the icon by the address does what i need. :)

Spiffster

01-07-2003, 08:40 PM

I might be the only one concerned about this, but Chimera is the only browser that will split the bookmark bar into two rows if there are too many to fit into one row. That's the only thing keeping me from switching from Chimera. (sad isn't it?). That and maybe tabbed browsing, i really like that.

For a beta though, IT RULES. :D :D :D

Quick

01-07-2003, 08:40 PM

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:

... Also, keychain access in intergrrated, I'm not sure why people think it's not. Go to a site, input your pass and then quit Safari. Then relauncha nd go back to that site and the keychain dialog pops up for permission to access keychain. ...<hr></blockquote>
I guess it's the cookie that stores your username and password. Try deleting the cookie from said site and you will no longer have your personal information available on the next visit.

Robert Ziefel

01-07-2003, 08:47 PM

Just wanted to chime in here. I do really like this new Safari, but that brushed metal drives me crazy. And it appears I'm not the only one. But there is good news! This app was built with the "new" project builder, making it VERY easy to turn off the brushed metal look, which I did immediately!. (If you have the developer tools installed, it's easy, anyway.) Here's how to do it:

.5) Quit Safari!!!
1) Open the Safari package. (You know, right click/control click on it-> Show Package Contents)
2) Browse to /Contents/Resources/English.lproj/
3) Double click on Browser.nib and project builder will open.
4) In the window titled "Browser NIB" you'll see an icon named Window. Click it.
5) From the Tools menu, select "Show Info..." and at the bottom of that window, you'll see "Textured Window" is checked. Uncheck it.
6) There is no step 6! HAHAHA. Well, maybe save.....

Also note that if you really like the brushed metal look, you can make many Mac OS X application windows look that way with this method.

Share and Enjoy!

Oh, if you don't have the development tools and want to do this, let me know. I can probably post the modified file you can just drop in someplace.

engpjp

01-07-2003, 08:47 PM

Safari speed is inconsistent when compared to Chimera. Rather slower on some sites, it's about the same on most and SLIGHTLY faster on a few....

What's with the name? Why not call it "Spelunking"?

engpjp

[edit:] I meant, Spelun-King

[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: engpjp ]

PookJP

01-07-2003, 09:01 PM

I can't get into hotmail because it says that Java isn't enabled, yet my java box is checked in preferences.

Anyone else having this problem?

01-07-2003, 09:22 PM

just realized that Safari had imported all my bookmarks from IE. how polite..

now, my only problem is my internet Album, where i've stored even more references than in my toolbar&favorites menu.

now, i know that i probably could just save them as pdf's, or only keep the URL's, but to save pages inside your browser, not loosing the content (pulled pages, changed content etc.) is a must for me...

any ideas for solution with Safari?
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

moki

01-07-2003, 09:25 PM

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
Spelling does work in text fileds, surprised you didn't know to choose 'check spelling as you type'. It doesn't stay on all the time, but it does work.

Also, keychain access in intergrrated, I'm not sure why people think it's not. Go to a site, input your pass and then quit Safari. Then relauncha nd go back to that site and the keychain dialog pops up for permission to access keychain.<hr></blockquote>

Ah well -- apparently I didn't play with it enough before posting. Mea culpa. I noticed the spell checking shortly after I'd posted saying it didn't exist... as for keychain support, I haven't seen it work yet, but perhaps I just haven't used it enough.

Overall, it is looking pretty nice to me... how about a customizable toolbar option, ala the Finder window?

Also, I've noticed that the Find feature (searching for text on a web page) doesn't seem to work on some web pages. Perhaps it doesn't search all frames?

ast3r3x

01-07-2003, 09:25 PM

it does not cache things correctly, if you load a movie adn then hit the bookmark button and go back, it has to reload the movie, this definatly needs fixing for the final, but for beta this rocks!

...also a bug i sent into apple is that it does not work properly with weather.com for the 'map in motion' feature...or it didn't for me at least, it didn't load

moki

01-07-2003, 09:44 PM

[quote]Originally posted by aa:
just realized that Safari had imported all my bookmarks from IE. how polite.. <hr></blockquote>

Yeah, it also pulls in the web sites that IE has memorized (url completion) -- quite nice indeed.

FormerLurker

01-07-2003, 09:45 PM

[quote]Originally posted by moki:


Yeah, it also pulls in the web sites that IE has memorized (url completion) -- quite nice indeed.<hr></blockquote>

Thanks Moki....I was wondering where those came from, when I suddenly had type-ahead URLs on a just-installed app. :D

ast3r3x

01-07-2003, 09:53 PM

the linux users seem very happy to have apple help out with khtml!

DGMVW

01-07-2003, 09:55 PM

One really cool thing that I noticed was that if you visit an FTP site after log in, it mounts the site on your desktop...very cool until my finder shit the bed. Beta, but it will be cool.

FormerLurker

01-07-2003, 09:56 PM

methinks this Safari is huntin an 800 pound gorilla......
:cool:

[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: FormerLurker ]

KidRed

01-07-2003, 09:56 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Kickaha:
OW bookmark files are just HTML... easy to parse, in theory.

But... Safari has *ZERO* AppleScript support. Shaaaaaaaaaame.

It's a beta, but shaaaaaaaaaame.

Would make it much easier to add bookmarks programatically.

Edit: OTOH, Safari bookmarks file is a plist. Easy to make programmatically. But just not with AppleScript.

But it's in ~/Library/Safari/

Shaaaaaaaaame. Shouldn't that be in either a) ~/Library/Bookmarks/ (and HTML so other browsers can share), or b) in ~/Library/Application Support/Safari/

[ 01-07-2003: Message edited by: Kickaha ]<hr></blockquote>

mm, then what's this <a href="http://www.apple.com/applescript/safari/" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/applescript/safari/</a> ?

KidRed

01-07-2003, 09:58 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Robert Ziefel:
Just wanted to chime in here. I do really like this new Safari, but that brushed metal drives me crazy. And it appears I'm not the only one. But there is good news! This app was built with the "new" project builder, making it VERY easy to turn off the brushed metal look, which I did immediately!. (If you have the developer tools installed, it's easy, anyway.) Here's how to do it:

.5) Quit Safari!!!
1) Open the Safari package. (You know, right click/control click on it-> Show Package Contents)
2) Browse to /Contents/Resources/English.lproj/
3) Double click on Browser.nib and project builder will open.
4) In the window titled "Browser NIB" you'll see an icon named Window. Click it.
5) From the Tools menu, select "Show Info..." and at the bottom of that window, you'll see "Textured Window" is checked. Uncheck it.
6) There is no step 6! HAHAHA. Well, maybe save.....

Also note that if you really like the brushed metal look, you can make many Mac OS X application windows look that way with this method.

Share and Enjoy!

Oh, if you don't have the development tools and want to do this, let me know. I can probably post the modified file you can just drop in someplace.<hr></blockquote>

Care to post a screenie of the aqua safari?

stunned

01-07-2003, 10:00 PM

Safari - So far, so good!!

Hopefully safari 1.0 will come out soon and also hopfully dun take as long as isync.

FormerLurker

01-07-2003, 10:00 PM

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:


mm, then what's this <a href="http://www.apple.com/applescript/safari/" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/applescript/safari/</a> ?<hr></blockquote>

interesting stuff, is what it is....

KidRed

01-07-2003, 10:00 PM

[quote]Originally posted by moki:


Ah well -- apparently I didn't play with it enough before posting. Mea culpa. I noticed the spell checking shortly after I'd posted saying it didn't exist... as for keychain support, I haven't seen it work yet, but perhaps I just haven't used it enough.

Overall, it is looking pretty nice to me... how about a customizable toolbar option, ala the Finder window?

Also, I've noticed that the Find feature (searching for text on a web page) doesn't seem to work on some web pages. Perhaps it doesn't search all frames?<hr></blockquote>

hehe, just a little surprised that you of all people didn't catch those things :)

DaeargiMan

01-07-2003, 11:58 PM

Safari is pretty great out of the box, but tabbed browsing is pretty useful and surely it will be added. Mozilla's tabbed browsing works beautifully even if the poor thing is slow as a turtle (insult to turtles). Not sure why some don't care for tabs. Isn't it a better alternative to having a zillion windows open?

"It's better than a body slam!"

EmAn

01-08-2003, 12:10 AM

[quote]Originally posted by DaeargiMan:
Safari is pretty great out of the box, but tabbed browsing is pretty useful and surely it will be added. Mozilla's tabbed browsing works beautifully even if the poor thing is slow as a turtle (insult to turtles). Not sure why some don't care for tabs. Isn't it a better alternative to having a zillion windows open?

"It's better than a body slam!"<hr></blockquote>
It definately is better than having multiple windows open.

jimmac

01-08-2003, 12:25 AM

So far I have only one complaint. I wish it would remember it's place on the desktop after you close it out. I leave my dock visable all the time and when I relaunch Safari it's way down at the bottom of the screen. Otherwise it's fast, fast, fast!

jeffyboy

01-08-2003, 12:38 AM

I haven't noticed it mentioned, but it's the first browser I've used with favicons! Little thing, but cool!

Way faster than IE or OW on my dial-up connection, too!

Jeff

Edit-not sure if favicons is the word I want, but on CNN.com, theres a little CNN icon in the address bar.

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: jeffyboy ]

iBrowse

01-08-2003, 12:46 AM

I'm impressed. :D

But with all the threads I gotta read after a keynote like that, I NEED tabbed browsing right now.

bauman

01-08-2003, 01:15 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Spiffster:
I might be the only one concerned about this, but Chimera is the only browser that will split the bookmark bar into two rows if there are too many to fit into one row. That's the only thing keeping me from switching from Chimera. (sad isn't it?).<hr></blockquote>
That's what I initially thought too. I have two rows, as well, but once I played around with the submenus in Safari, I'm a changed man. I think that it's easier to navigate with five menus each with several items than twenty bookmarks.

Give it a shot.

And I wanna see this aqua Safari. Since I don't have Dev tools installed, nor do I really want to, could someone post the changed file somewhere? Or just PM me and I'll give you my email. Thanks!

Also, it seems as if the page just falls off the bottom of the window. Is this standard UI? Should there be a 'buffer zone' there? I don't really like it that way . . . I'm so used to a little progress bar there.

One more thing: Does Safari have encription in it yet? Is it safe for online purchases? I don't see a lock icon . . .

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: bauman ]

FormerLurker

01-08-2003, 01:42 AM

[quote]Originally posted by bauman:
[Also, it seems as if the page just falls off the bottom of the window. Is this standard UI? Should there be a 'buffer zone' there? I don't really like it that way . . . I'm so used to a little progress bar there.<hr></blockquote>

go to View menu and select Status Bar. Looks nicer, and you can see what a link is by hovering over it

Mount_my_floppy

01-08-2003, 01:49 AM

There is a haxi that will remove the brushed metal, Its gone on mine :)

Jeremiah Rich

01-08-2003, 02:26 AM

A problem I have noticed is that mouse wheel acceleration does not work. It works on all of my other browsers. The function is built into my Logitech, so I hope they will soon fix this. (I have a dual optical).

Telomar

01-08-2003, 02:56 AM

[quote]Originally posted by bauman:

One more thing: Does Safari have encription in it yet? Is it safe for online purchases? I don't see a lock icon . . .<hr></blockquote>

It appears in the very top right corner on the metal; it's a black lock. You don't seem to be able to get any info on the level of security or certificates though.

Someone already mentioned the View > Status Bar thing but there it is again. That'll give you the bottom buffer.

Eugene

01-08-2003, 03:08 AM

Safari doesn't like self-signed certs, it seems.

bryan.fury

01-08-2003, 03:08 AM

like the interface very much, however flash playback is horrible ?
hope the address this very soon

Mount_my_floppy

01-08-2003, 03:26 AM

Flash was not to bad for me I dont really watch flash animations just flash websites. Either way I`m sure it will be updated in the 1.0 release

Next: Does anyone know how to actually use Rendevous Bookmarks? They don`t transfer at all on my LAN. Anyone?

amitofu

01-08-2003, 03:37 AM

Here is a taste of Aqua Safari! (Next thread)

-Chris

amitofu

01-08-2003, 03:39 AM

http://homepage.mac.com/amitofu/aqua_safari.jpg

foad

01-08-2003, 03:46 AM

[quote]Originally posted by bauman:


And I wanna see this aqua Safari. Since I don't have Dev tools installed, nor do I really want to, could someone post the changed file somewhere? Or just PM me and I'll give you my email. Thanks!

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: bauman ]<hr></blockquote>

Here is a link for those that wanna see Safari Aquafied.

<a href="http://www.defaultmind.com/~foad/AI/Aqua_Safari.jpg" target="_blank">click here</a>

Someone mentioned a haxie. There is a small little utility from the great folks at Unsanity call Metallifizer. It works only with Cocoa apps(programs only for OS X). It will add the brushed look or remove it. It is free. You can get it at <a href="http://www.unsanity.com/products.php" target="_blank">Unsanity Product Page</a>

They have a bunch of great little utilities for the Mac geek in us all.

foad

01-08-2003, 03:48 AM

Dang...amitofu beat me to it. Damn me and being at work at 1AM and tired, trying to type a long response. :p

PS...if you really like the brushed look, you can even make Chimera brushed.

Whyatt Thrash

01-08-2003, 03:53 AM

[quote]Originally posted by amitofu:
<hr></blockquote>

Yay yay! That looks way more like it! *applause*

amitofu

01-08-2003, 04:11 AM

Isn't Cocoa (and Quartz) great? Look how Safari handles the mouse over highlight of toolbar bookmarks even in its unnative UI!
http://homepage.mac.com/amitofu/aqua_safari_toolbar.jpg

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: amitofu ]

amitofu

01-08-2003, 04:13 AM

HA! foad! Funny how we took the exact same picture and even named the image the same thing <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> We even had the same Apple bookmark thing in the toolbar highlighted!

-Chris

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: amitofu ]

Hassan i Sabbah

01-08-2003, 04:36 AM

Safari roolz and rox: but specifically it ownz, rendering (as it does) like a thoroughbread, scrolling like a beast, accessing cache like a slippery eel.

I just feel sorry for Chimera. I loved the way they were on 0.6 and were working so hard for their 1.0, all their nightly builds, all their labour. I'd just downloaded a nightly and commented to myself how much I liked the new download manager. I really did think that they were sweet.

Note the use of the past tense in the last sentence.

Now what about tabs?

Harald

01-08-2003, 06:52 AM

Two small points Hassan (you twat):

1) It's thoroughbred not bread. It's a horse, not a loaf. Or rather a browser-horse, not a browser-loaf.

2) "Snapback" is designed to do away with the need for tabbed browsing ... typically I use one tab as home base and have lots of sprogs off it. With such a fast refresh from cache you don't need to this. Apple like single-window models. A lot.

[quote]Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah:
Safari roolz and rox: but specifically it ownz, rendering (as it does) like a thoroughbread, scrolling like a beast, accessing cache like a slippery eel.

I just feel sorry for Chimera. I loved the way they were on 0.6 and were working so hard for their 1.0, all their nightly builds, all their labour. I'd just downloaded a nightly and commented to myself how much I liked the new download manager. I really did think that they were sweet.

Note the use of the past tense in the last sentence.

Now what about tabs?<hr></blockquote>

Crustibooga

01-08-2003, 07:29 AM

Fanfreakingtastic!!!!
:D
I think however Chimera will still do very well, because of its tabs. For the moment I will experiment with Safari and enjoy.... WOOOOOOOOOOSH!
:D

Utmost

01-08-2003, 07:31 AM

Turn on HTTP Pipelining in Chimera, and it will screech way past Safari, loading at least twice as fast in many instances.

It's a lot snappier for me as well. With Safari, there's a significant lag while it loads each image. Not so with Chimera.

I won't be switching.

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Utmost ]

stupider...likeafox

01-08-2003, 08:57 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Utmost:
Turn on HTTP Pipelining in Chimera, and it will screech way past Safari, loading at least twice as fast in many instances.<hr></blockquote>

To paraphrase Mike Pinkerton (led dev on Chimera), there is a reason that pipelining is not on by default - it's buggy/unsupported.

Also, if it weren't buggy/unsupported, Apple would turn it on in Safari and it would increase in speed at least as much as, if not more than, Chimera.

Quick note to tab-lovers: stop trying to ruin the interface of my new browser.

Why not bug Apple to turn iPhoto into Photoshop or Mail into Outlook instead?

Keep It Simple, Steve!

btw has anyone noticed that (tabs apart) nearly every complaint--of a beta release!--has been total fiction.

RolandG

01-08-2003, 09:30 AM

What I read from all the comments about Safari it seems to be just fantastic - haven't had the chance to try it myself yet.

Why not make a Windows version and reheat the browser war?

Giving away the source is a start - but it is essentialy important that the look & feel is the same on every platform.

BuonRotto

01-08-2003, 09:57 AM

I'll never understand the appeal of an MDI interface like Chimera's...

rok

01-08-2003, 10:12 AM

my suggested cheesiness to it, a la Mac OS X's "genie effect," is to make the pages "turn" just like an old-fashioned book when you click on links. and when you use the snap back feature, it flip-flip-flips back to the beginning of the site. this would, of course, be a feature that could be toggled on and off, or modified with different wipe effects (which is really all it is, like maybe a rollup effect, etc.) total eye candy, but why not? ;)

rok

01-08-2003, 10:15 AM

[quote]Originally posted by RolandG:
Why not make a Windows version and reheat the browser war?<hr></blockquote>

i think the ONLY reason apple doesn't want to do it is that they do not want to have to field a million questions of why the browser doesn't work under windows xp home, or professional, or 2000, or NT, on a processor bought from one place, hard drive bought from another, in a custom case, etc., etc.

in other words, apple can support it, because they control everything.

don't get me wrong -- i think apple could make microsoft VERY nervous by releasing a browser for windows, but they'd need bigger guns *cough* AOL *cough*

;)

bauman

01-08-2003, 02:20 PM

Okay, I found a UI bug, and I'm eager to tell Apple all about it. But it doesn't have to do with any specific website, so how do I submit it?

Here's the bug: If you click on a pulldown menu in your bookmark bar, and then double click on another bookmark (once to close it, and again to choose the link), instead of going to the bookmark, it brings down the previous menu again. Understand?

So, now how do I gleefully run to Apple telling them that I found a UI bug?

Edit: Just double click anywhere, and the menu re-appears . . . it doesn't just need to be another bookmark bar link.

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: bauman ]

Paul

01-08-2003, 02:30 PM

i have just been using the bug button and putting "general UI bug" as the address

O and A

01-08-2003, 02:42 PM

Is it as fast as windows sing? I know it ain't integrated into the os but it seemed like it was just nearly as fast in jobs presentation

Aquatic

01-08-2003, 03:33 PM

[quote] It needs IE's autofill and Chimera's Keychain access. <hr></blockquote>

How cool, it stole IE's autofill too. I was definitely weirded out for a second when I typed V and versiontracker came up.

Keychain: KidRed you say it's there. Well how nice that is secretly stores our passwords in our Keychain, but it'd be nice to have it ASK first, with a neat-o little sheet like Chimera.

TABS. If you don't like them you haven't used them. It's like OS X. I used to hate it, then I used it. They are faster than switching windows, and you can see them all at the same time, instead going to a window menu or flipping through many windows. I have a lot of windows open at the same time, because I command-click the links on Macsurfer and Versiontracker to open tabs in the background. I'm on a modem in Vermont, so it connects at 26400, and I have to pick what I want to read first, so by the time I'm done scanning the news, some of the tabs are loaded and ready to read. Tabs will come, no doubt.

Why did Apple pick KHTML instead of Mozilla though? Mozilla seems to be picking up support from everywhere, there's a real bandwagon forming. I mean, AOL blessed, it has legs. What is better about KHTML?

I have found Safari to be faster than the latest Chimera nightly, which has pipelining, RAM cache, all those goodies in Chimichanga, on.

Brushed metal is retarded! I understood that it was supposed to reflect an app being an "appliance." For QT Player that makes sense. How is a browser an appliance? It looks uglier than Platinum. When I saw the Aqua Safari I soilded myself. I have to go to Unsanity now...

Aquatic

01-08-2003, 04:11 PM

Neither Safari nor the latest Chimera build worked here:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/tom_bridge/PhotoAlbum16.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/tom_bridge/PhotoAlbum16.html</a>

I was trying to see where the MiniAluBook's S-Video was... is it on the back?

Damn I can't believe how slow IE is compared to Chimera or Safari.

applenut

01-08-2003, 04:17 PM

you need to buy a minivga to s-video adapter from apple

EmAn

01-08-2003, 04:39 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Aquatic:


How cool, it stole IE's autofill too. I was definitely weirded out for a second when I typed V and versiontracker came up.
<hr></blockquote>
Yeah, but that's not Autofill. Autofill's when your filling out a form or something and your information comes up.

Aquatic

01-08-2003, 05:08 PM

Oops I meant toolbar autocomplete.

It needs to copy IE's AutoFill and all those other great features and prefs that Chimera et al still haven't copied. The only reason I don't use IE is because it's 5x slower than Safari or Chimera, but no other browser can touch it's array of features or prefs...yet. I have a feeling Safari will.

Wow I just got Metallifizer! All the iApps look MUCH better without stupid 'brushed metal.'

edit: I was still calling autocomplete autofill.

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Aquatic ]

Brad

01-08-2003, 05:12 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Aquatic:
Neither Safari nor the latest Chimera build worked here:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/tom_bridge/PhotoAlbum16.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/tom_bridge/PhotoAlbum16.html</a><hr></blockquote>What? That page loads fine in Safari and clicking images works fine too. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Aquatic

01-08-2003, 05:23 PM

The slideshow thingy wouldn't work for me.

Amorph

01-08-2003, 05:33 PM

After using Safari for an evening, I'm very pleased with it. I can think of a few things it needs, mostly cribbed from the ultra-sleek OmniWeb, but it's close enough that I cheerfully threw every other browser out of my Dock.

I agree that having a way to load and browse multiple sites without multiple windows is nice. Opera for Windows spoiled me (MDI interface notwithstanding) back when Mozilla was barely getting off the ground.

But please, please, please not tabs. Using them that way is a violation of UI guidelines, they're awkward, and you can only load so many sites at once before things become unreadable, or arrows start appearing.

If Apple goes this way - and I'd like them to - they should go the whole hog. Allow sets of pages to be bookmarked, and labelled with a short name the way single pages can be renamed. Integrate that into the excellent bookmarks manager they have. That would be seriously cool. But, as with other things, I'd like Apple to really think through what the best UI is to present and manage collections of pages, rather than just blindly copying tabs from Mozilla because they're "good enough."

As for the metal look: It vanishes in relation to the size of the web page on my screen (which is "only" 10x7); it provides a clear contrast between the toolbar section and the document section, given the arbitrary appearances of most web sites; and the Aqua hack, frankly, looks terrible. You need to open the nib up in Interface Builder and get some clearance between the buttons and the title bar for it to look at all Mac-like, and then you've got the controls taking up that much more space. I'll admit that it's not as flat-out gorgeous as OmniWeb's interface is, but it's clear, compact, and attractive. I can appreciate that.

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]

Brad

01-08-2003, 05:33 PM

Every bit of the slideshow works fine for me. Hrmm.

Barto

01-08-2003, 05:36 PM

What I'm amazed about Safari is how smooth dock minimizations are.

This is on a Dual 1.25, but it is still visibly smoother than other applications.

Barto

Logan Cale

01-08-2003, 05:38 PM

Apparently Safari is deleting people's home folders and messing up Printing, CD Burning, and Classic.

<a href="http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?50@103.p2VUaXzZfJZ.565249@.3bbdb9d6" target="_blank">http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?50@103.p2VUaXzZfJZ.565249@.3bbdb9d6</a>

<a href="http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?50@202.K7NOarcbf3d.2@.3bbdbb52" target="_blank">http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?50@202.K7NOarcbf3d.2@.3bbdbb52</a>

Spiffster

01-08-2003, 05:41 PM

BTW, does anyone know how/where to get the source?

Amorph

01-08-2003, 05:46 PM

Whoa! :eek:

I guess we've been lucky?

vas

01-08-2003, 05:47 PM

Does it bother anyone else about the way bookmarks are organized? I know lots of people keep saying that the way Safari does it is much better, but I disagree.

I want all my bookmarks to be in the bookmarks menu, regardless of how they're organized. It takes two clicks to get to a bookmark when it's in the menu, compared to the bookmarks panel, where you have to click AT LEAST 3 times to do the same thing.

I know I can add all my bookmarks to the menu, but then that defeats the purpose of the panel. I hope Apple modifies this so that all bookmarks are automatically added to the menu, in addition to wherever else you might like to file them (sort of like with the Address Book and Rendezvous bookmarks).

Am I alone in feeling this way?

JLL

01-08-2003, 05:56 PM

-

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: JLL ]

Anders the White

01-08-2003, 06:04 PM

Another thing: It renders beautifully. I´m making tabels in SPSS in 9 (SPSS doesn´t work in Classic) and the easiest way to see them while I´m using the data for PowerPoint presentations is by exporting them in HTML. Simply much more beatiful than in any other browser in X.

Is it because its a cocoa app?

sushiism

01-08-2003, 06:08 PM

gah you clearly dont understand the bookmarks library, the menu is for slightly common stuff, the toolbar for really common stuff, and the folders in the library for stuff that isnt so common. Lets take an example a mac fanatic would use it
toolbar - things like these forums, daily visits and such
menu - maybe apple.com seen as you dont visit it daily
bookmarks library - maybe mac musuem etc, places you dont visit every day but you can still all bookmark without clogging up your bookmark menu

Spart

01-08-2003, 06:13 PM

[quote]Originally posted by vas:
Does it bother anyone else about the way bookmarks are organized? I know lots of people keep saying that the way Safari does it is much better, but I disagree.

I want all my bookmarks to be in the bookmarks menu, regardless of how they're organized. It takes two clicks to get to a bookmark when it's in the menu, compared to the bookmarks panel, where you have to click AT LEAST 3 times to do the same thing.

I know I can add all my bookmarks to the menu, but then that defeats the purpose of the panel. I hope Apple modifies this so that all bookmarks are automatically added to the menu, in addition to wherever else you might like to file them (sort of like with the Address Book and Rendezvous bookmarks).

Am I alone in feeling this way?<hr></blockquote>

The purpose is not defeated at all. Without the bookmarks view, how would you go about editing and organizing your bookmarks? What, a tiny window that gets lost? Are you mad? Rather than do it the time-tested way, Apple scores some points for keeping it all in the same window.

[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
hehe, just a little surprised that you of all people didn't catch those things :) <hr></blockquote>

I have a feeling moki doesn't use Cocoa or Cocoa apps very often.

Otherwise, his first instinct would have been to control click on the text field and enable it.

Hassan i Sabbah

01-08-2003, 06:51 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
Two small points Hassan (you twat):

1) It's thoroughbred not bread. It's a horse, not a loaf. Or rather a browser-horse, not a browser-loaf.
<hr></blockquote>

Oh yes. And, er, it has spellchecking too, which is something Chimera doesn't.

I've turned it on now.

stupider...likeafox

01-08-2003, 06:54 PM

OmniWeb 5.0 will use the kHTML renderer.

According to this:

<a href="http://www.macfixit.com/MFIbeta/article.php?story=20030108084927319" target="_blank">http://www.macfixit.com/MFIbeta/article.php?story=20030108084927319</a>

Also, you can upgrade the kHTML renderer component, called WebCore separately from the rest of the app.

So says this guy:

<a href="http://www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/hyatt/" target="_blank">http://www.mozillazine.org/weblogs/hyatt/</a>

Barto

01-08-2003, 08:01 PM

Turns out that all the people who thought that David Hyatt would be building a Web-Browser for Apple were right... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

Barto

BuonRotto

01-08-2003, 08:02 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Brad:
That page loads fine in Safari and clicking images works fine too.<hr></blockquote>

Funny to look at that page in Safari mainly because you have a brushed metal window with a (slightly different) brushed metal window from the wweb page inside it. :)

Interesting to see how images are loaded too. They sort of appear to "drop down," where the bottom of the image renders first and is shown at the to of the image then drops as the rest of the miage is loaded. (This isn't slow or smooth mind you, actually rather quick and renders in big chunks at a time.)

Telomar

01-08-2003, 08:10 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Aquatic:

Why did Apple pick KHTML instead of Mozilla though? Mozilla seems to be picking up support from everywhere, there's a real bandwagon forming. I mean, AOL blessed, it has legs. What is better about KHTML?<hr></blockquote>

According to Apple:

"For its Web page rendering engine, Safari draws on software from the Konqueror open source project. Weighing in at less than one tenth the size of another open source renderer, Konqueror helps Safari stay lean and responsive."

I'm sure someone with more experience programming web browsers would know a bunch of other reasons as well.

Telomar

01-08-2003, 08:12 PM

Interesting snippet from David Hyatt's weblog:

[quote] Various members of the Flash community have been reporting low frame rates when using Flash in Safari. I'm pleased to report that we have corrected the problem. The issue was not in WebCore, so I can't post a patch, but the issue has been addressed. <hr></blockquote>

frawgz

01-08-2003, 09:39 PM

As much as we all love Dave Hyatt, why does he get all the credit anyway? He's not the only guy on the Safari team.

The possibility of OW5 using Webcore and KHTML occurred to me this morning too. Great.. I guess OW5 won't be squashed by Safari after all. And so the Mac browser market is safe for the time being. Open source really is great.

ast3r3x

01-08-2003, 10:19 PM

I have the topper of all errors!

On my brothers B&W G3/400MHz, the prefrences in Safari wouldn't show up, the window showed but it was blank, obviously this was a bug.

...so i cliked on the report a bug button and nothing happened, ANOTHER bug...how do you report this one? ;) <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

BuonRotto

01-08-2003, 10:46 PM

[quote]Originally posted by frawgz:
As much as we all love Dave Hyatt, why does he get all the credit anyway? He's not the only guy on the Safari team.

The possibility of OW5 using Webcore and KHTML occurred to me this morning too. Great.. I guess OW5 won't be squashed by Safari after all. And so the Mac browser market is safe for the time being. Open source really is great.<hr></blockquote>

A lot of folks from the old Eazel team worked on this. They get a lot of the credit really. Hell, they probably did a huge chunk of the legwork! These folks are very versatile too, aren't they?

I see Safari remaining a simple application. Like other iApps, it will constantly be criticised for not having enough advanced features, but I don't see it as that kind of software, and I doubt Apple sees it that way either. OW will still have a big chunk of the market with its more advanced features, the ability to fine-tune settings more, more flexible UI, etc. If anything, this will help Omni focus OmniWeb's development. Same goes for Chimera, Opera and even IE if it isn't exclusively part of MSN service in the future.

[ 01-08-2003: Message edited by: BuonRotto ]

Barto

01-08-2003, 11:02 PM

I wanna see a WebCore iCab...

Barto

gsxrboy

01-09-2003, 12:05 AM

What I really want is the ability to set the number of simultaneous downloads i.e. ability to set it to 1 so you can que downloads (like IE does) . Ability to block images not originating from the site you are on (like OW), ability to block paths/ads (like OW). All the contextual menu options like OW. Apart from that Safari is really nice. OW is gone almost now, since I still have the freeze the machine bug still. Oh and the window to open correctly on startup in the same place etc and either having proper cascading/tiling pages or for them to open right on top of each other and not open below the dock...

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: gsxrboy ]

gsxrboy

01-09-2003, 12:13 AM

Ah if you have the status bar turned on then widows open properly :)

Edit - not anymore :confused:

Also could do with some font control, i.e. setting default sizes etc...

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: gsxrboy ]

sobelizzard

01-09-2003, 02:31 AM

Safari initially looked awesome to me... but it has since been a nightmare. It has literally wreaked havoc on my system. Last night, i tried to reboot after my printing wasn't working... i got the question mark startup screen... followed by a type of blue screen of death. i tried zapping P-RAM, no dice. So i booted up to OS 9 (on a CD), copied as much as i could onto my iPod and bit the bullet, reformatting and installing jaguar. It ran great, until i downloaded Safari on the new system. Suddenly, i couldn't install any pkg's (including my samsung ml 1210 printer driver....). So.. i did an archive install of Jaguar... when i booted up to that OS, (the new system folder) i tried installing the printer drivers, and it appeared to install successfully (the installer.app didn't quite unexpectedly). However, then i launched Safari, and everything went to hell! My printer won't work (i can't select it from my printer list... it shows up.. just won't select because of error type 2), classic is screwy, and software update fails. This is a major pain in the ass.... i wonder why its not affecting everyone...
I'm running 10.2.3 on a 700 Mhz G4 iMac, 256 megs of ram. this is weird.... i have a paper i have to print tonight, so i think i might bite the bullet, and reinstall jag for the third time, and decide against going on another Safari to hell tonight.
Its a great app... i just don't like what it does to my system :) hopefully a fix will crop up soon.

appletothecore

01-09-2003, 05:04 AM

The good news is Safari holds the promise of becoming another great browser for OSX. Chimera isn't going to stop improving any time soon, and it is a cinch that Safari is going to get tabbed browsing in some form. The Opera browser is also very, very nice. While the other browser projects may take a minor hit, I think they will continue. The competition will be good for the platform.

For all of the challenges Apple has faced, methinks they are doing fine. They are negotiating passage through a narrow place. They are already mostly through the danger period when withdrawel of Microsoft support might have been fatal. The hardware drought appears to have a more than adequate solution on the way. Glad I came over to Mac in 1998. Wouldn't go back for all the PCs in China.

moki

01-09-2003, 06:38 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Spart:
I have a feeling moki doesn't use Cocoa or Cocoa apps very often.

Otherwise, his first instinct would have been to control click on the text field and enable it.<hr></blockquote>

No, moki just plain posted too quickly. How many hail mary's do I need to do, already? :)

stupider...likeafox

01-09-2003, 06:55 AM

<a href="http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/archive/omniweb-l/2003-January/009160.html" target="_blank">http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/archive/omniweb-l/2003-January/009160.html</a>

Aquatic

01-09-2003, 03:46 PM

Ast3r3x I saw an error like that once too. I was trying to load a page and the error dialogue popped up, but it had some white junk on it and was unclickable. I couldn't click anywhere in Safari but I just restarted it and haven't seen that again.

Logan Cale I believe the problem with killing your home directory is caused by OPTION clicking a download (why would you ever do that?)

Gah while I was typing this, I clicked page 4 on the little window in the frame below since it loads page 1. It just took me there, the whole window, not just inside the little frame.

My dad also says Safari renders his page terribly: <a href="http://www.usace.army.mil/" target="_blank">http://www.usace.army.mil/</a> Indeed the first time I checked it, none of the pictures loaded. At ResExcellence when I was looking at Boot Panels I had to reload the pages MANY times to make the finish completely. Sometimes Safari just doesn't seem to finish loading a page. Some pics are left out for example.

Amorph: Tabs are quicker and you can see all your pages in a glance. Apple will surely come up with a good way to deal with lots of them all at the same time. Perhaps just a new row in the toolbar, that'd be fine with me. They should just turn them off by default. I'm suffering Tab withdrawal. Safari's speed over Chimera is easily lost cycling through and moving windows around. Back to Chimera for now. By the way why doesn't Chimera use the latest Mozilla? I heard it still uses 1.0.

edit: the USACE webpage doesn't show the table of images on the front page right in Safari, they're supposed to be aligned straight.

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Aquatic ]

Aquatic

01-09-2003, 03:54 PM

Yup when I replied here, the AI page didn't reload all the way! Just to where someone was commenting about bookmarks, which is the best thing about Safari I must say. However I couldn't see who said that since frames apparently don't work right as I noted, the frame in the response page takes over the whole window.

Also I just realized that all URLs are underlined. That's annoying and should definately be off by default with an option.

And I noticed something else that may have to do with pages not loading completely. It seems Safari likes to "hog" bandwith for ONE page or download. I'm on a modem at 26400. When I have two downloads going it gives one all the bandwith and if I start opening a few AI threads and a couple other pages the downloads will fail and none of the pages will load completely. Anyone else on a modem seeing this? I'm sure I won't care once I'm back at URI though. :D

stupider...likeafox

01-09-2003, 05:30 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Aquatic:

Also I just realized that all URLs are underlined. That's annoying and should definately be off by default with an option.
<hr></blockquote>

The release of Safari has unleashed some crazy opinions but wanting to have link underlining off by default somehow sums it all up for me.

btw You should be able to achieve this with a user style sheet like this:

a:link {text-decoration: none !important;}
a:hover {text-decoration: underline !important;}

The first line turns them off, the second turns them back on when you hover over the link. Just save in a text file called something .css and import through the preferences.

On a different topic here is a post by the Mozilla user-interface guy that sparred with Dave Hyatt over the inclusion of tabs in Mozilla. It adresses the 'if you don't like tabs, don't use them argument'.

<a href="http://mpt.phrasewise.com/2002/07/03#a292" target="_blank">http://mpt.phrasewise.com/2002/07/03#a292</a>

In my ideal world, Apple would let Omni make some money from the lust for a tabbed Safari.

Here's hoping.

edit: tested and improved the css for turning of link underlining

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: stupider...likeafox ]

Amorph

01-09-2003, 05:46 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Aquatic:

Logan Cale I believe the problem with killing your home directory is caused by OPTION clicking a download (why would you ever do that?)
<hr></blockquote>

Because "Download this link" is supposed to be a feature. ;)

[quote]Amorph: Tabs are quicker and you can see all your pages in a glance.<hr></blockquote>

There's more than one way to skin that cat, and there has to be a way that is an order of magnitude more correct and more elegant than using tabs. That's not what they're designed for, and it shows in Mozilla.

Hobbes

01-09-2003, 06:43 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
There's more than one way to skin that cat, and there has to be a way that is an order of magnitude more correct and more elegant than using tabs. That's not what they're designed for, and it shows in Mozilla.<hr></blockquote>

http://look-designs.com/extras/safari_mp/images/safari_mp_6_sites_small.png

Feedback?

The Page Pane on the right (as it's currently called, for lack of a better name) slides in at the touch of a button, and enables multipage viewing in a single window. Like the Dock, the size of the pages in the pane would dynamically adjust according to the number of pages it holds.

Turning on the pane would shift Safari into a slightly different Multipage View.

For more details, click <a href="http://look-designs.com/extras/safari_mp/safari_mp.html" target="_blank">here</a>.

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Hobbes ]

BuonRotto

01-09-2003, 07:07 PM

Yeah, something like either a drawer or a side tab/pane for page thumbnails would be better IMO. You can fight for whether they should side in or out. :)

kcmac

01-09-2003, 08:23 PM

I would rather see a "tab bar" or a "page bar" that would sit just underneath the bookmark bar.

Taking out screen width isn't very attractive to me.

Your mock-ups are very nice however.

bauman

01-09-2003, 08:44 PM

(Veering into another direction) Could Apple make a download page similar to the bookmarks view? It would use a similar toggle function, and you could easily see your downloads without the use of another window.

Although this might be a bit much, you could even add a Windows explorer sidebar to interact with the finder and where you want your downloads.

Just a thought.

bauman

01-09-2003, 08:46 PM

Edit: D@mn you Safari! First double post ever.

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: bauman ]

appletothecore

01-10-2003, 02:02 AM

Several hours with Safari. No crash yet.
ATTC

Overhope

01-10-2003, 06:11 AM

Right, I had a play (damn Apple, bringing out all sorts of nice new stuff while I'm on holiday!) and my opinion is that Safari has all the makings of a great app.

There are a few bugs in the javascript implementation (as in, stuff that works in every other browser sits there and does nothing), and some rendering issues around tables (natch), but it's quick, stable and does the job. Nice work.

Is it just me, or are status bar messages not working? Is this why the status bar is turned off by default, perhaps?

Oh, and I just love the URL box doubling up as the progress bar: subtle, but incredibly sensible and reclaims some real estate to boot!

kubrick

01-10-2003, 06:34 AM

wouldn't it be nice if the copass icon in the dock would move/turn around whenever safari is searching the internet. like explorer/navigator-logos but in the dock...

stupider...likeafox

01-10-2003, 07:31 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Overhope:

There are a few bugs in the javascript implementation (as in, stuff that works in every other browser sits there and does nothing), and some rendering issues around tables (natch), but it's quick, stable and does the job. Nice work.

Is it just me, or are status bar messages not working? Is this why the status bar is turned off by default, perhaps?
<hr></blockquote>

I read a quote from a developer somewhere that the DOM support was almost entirely missing, i.e. not buggy, just not done.

If by status bar messages you mean things written to the status bar by javascript, then I assumed that non-support was a conscious decision as the rest of the status bar shows evidence of some love and attention.

If you hold down shift, option, command then the message changes to reflect the change.

open "www.example.com/example"
open "www.example.com/example" in a new window
open "www.example.com/example" in a new window behind this one
download "www.example.com/example"

I hadn't realised how much I was in the habit of hovering over a link and glancing down to the status bar to see where it would take me. (In fact I usually look up as I used OmniWeb).

I'm intrigued to know if Apple did usability studies and found that ordinary joes don't do this and simply link blindly.

Whyatt Thrash

01-10-2003, 08:22 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Hobbes:


http://look-designs.com/extras/safari_mp/images/safari_mp_6_sites_small.png

Feedback?

The Page Pane on the right (as it's currently called, for lack of a better name) slides in at the touch of a button, and enables multipage viewing in a single window. Like the Dock, the size of the pages in the pane would dynamically adjust according to the number of pages it holds.

Turning on the pane would shift Safari into a slightly different Multipage View.

For more details, click <a href="http://look-designs.com/extras/safari_mp/safari_mp.html" target="_blank">here</a>.

[ 01-09-2003: Message edited by: Hobbes ]<hr></blockquote>

That.looks.like.a.good.idea.Hobbes!http://www.hostboard.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

But.what.happens.with.webpages.that.have.long.titl es?
Maybe.add.linebreaks.like.for.finder.icons...

Oh.well.never.mind.me. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

you.should.post.that.link.to.apple.
I'm.sure.they'll.love.it.

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Whyatt Thrash ]

mlnjr

01-10-2003, 09:15 AM

I apologize if this Safari thread isn't the right one to post my question in—it' was the topmost thread about Safari in the Software forums, so I figured...

Well, anyway, I downloaded Safari shortly after the keynote ended and had no problems with it on Wednesday or Thursday. Today, every time I try to launch Safari, the application crashes. I'm back to using IE for now. I had some problems with my internet connection on Thursday and actually spent most of the day power-cycling my cable modem and restarting my computer. This morning, I was happy to see the modem working properly so I started up the computer and encountered the problem with Safari.

If this'll help: FP iMac 800/Super Drive, 256 MB RAM. Running 10.2.3. I ran Disk Utility on Thursday to repair some disk permissions (figured I'd do some house cleaning while the internet connection was down) but that's the only monkeying around I've done recently, and certainly the only bit I've done since downloading Safari. This morning I downloaded Safari again and trashed my old copy, but that didn't help—the new copy crashes, too.

Any suggestions? I'd love to send a bug report to Apple, but since I can't get Safari up...

Brad

01-10-2003, 09:45 AM

mlnjr:

Delete Safari's preferences file and try again. For some people it has been getting corrupted, pruvunting the launch. The file is located at:

~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.Safari.plist

Hobbes

01-10-2003, 11:03 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Whyatt Thrash:
That.looks.like.a.good.idea.Hobbes!

But.what.happens.with.webpages.that.have.long.titl es?
Maybe.add.linebreaks.like.for.finder.icons...]<hr></blockquote>

Yeah, I gave myself a very simple scenario to start with.

I'll work on a mock-up with a more real-world scenario, including more realistic ridiculously long web site itles. I imagine they would have to break to 2 or even 3 (ugh!) lines.

New

01-10-2003, 12:06 PM

line break

Amorya

01-10-2003, 12:37 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Hobbes:


http://look-designs.com/extras/safari_mp/images/safari_mp_6_sites_small.png

Feedback?
<hr></blockquote>

Don't shoot me, but I'd like that in a drawer. Or as an option, maybe...

I think it should scroll if there's too many, and resize when you change the size of the drawer itself. The titles could be clipped and mouseover the rest if they're too long...

Amorya

stupider...likeafox

01-10-2003, 01:02 PM

The mozilla user interface guy posted again about Safari:

<a href="http://mpt.phrasewise.com/2003/01/10#a439" target="_blank">http://mpt.phrasewise.com/2003/01/10#a439</a>

The most interesting part is when he points out a feature of other browsers that Safari lacks that I hadn't even noticed was missing. And when I found out that it was gone, I was glad because it has given me nothing but grief.

I'll not say what it was because I'm intrigued to know if anyone hadn't noticed its absence.

edit: new stuff below

I just finished reading a couple of blogs that were linked to in the post above

<a href="http://dbaron.org/log/2003-01#l20030109" target="_blank">http://dbaron.org/log/2003-01#l20030109</a>
and
<a href="http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=jwz&itemid=132696" target="_blank">http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=jwz&itemid=132696</a>

Very damning stuff about the gecko renderer, coming from two people who did a lot of work on it.

This comes as a shock to me after reading all the web design blogs were people were bitching about Apple not using gecko. Not that those people understood the trade-offs or the decision making process mind, simply because they considered gecko to be the only browser engine to even be capable of being standards compliant.
-----
One of the Chimera developer's estimated that Safari was at 60 odd percent compliance, whereas Chimera was about 94 percent compliant. He went on to say, however, that he thought Safari would only be 2 or 3 percent behind when it goes gold and basically no one would be able to tell the difference.

I was astounded when I first saw Safari and the more I learn the better it gets.

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: stupider...likeafox ]

Spart

01-10-2003, 01:29 PM

There is a combo box in the address field.

Just type in http:// in the address, and wait a split second. It pops up without fail.

In the rest of the interface, however, it is absent. Not that I care much. It can be kind of annoying at times.

The guy also complains of Safari's use of the text field as page-load status. Is it me, or is he the only one? I really like this, it looks cool, it's bigger than most smaller ones designed to go at the botom of a window, and it doesn't needlessly take up any extra space when not in use.

Him saying that combining the back and snapback buttons coexisiting is problematic because you don't know which to use is idiotic. It's simple, back button to go one back, snapback to go to where you started on the site. (Or where you have the snapback page defined.)

And the most idiotic comment, that the back and forward buttons are so small that it will make us slower. Not when your operating system is smart enough to let you use dynamic mouse tracking, idiot. We've got precision and speed. Besides, remove the text from IE and what do you have? about the same sized buttons. :rolleyes:

The guy even admits he doesn't have a Mac, and therefore hasn't been able to actually use Safari.

Brad

01-10-2003, 01:40 PM

[quote]Originally posted by stupider...likeafox:
<a href="http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=jwz&itemid=132696" target="_blank">http://www.livejournal.com/talkread.bml?journal=jwz&itemid=132696</a>

Very damning stuff about the gecko renderer, coming from two people who did a lot of work on it.<hr></blockquote>Heh. I liked this part:
[quote]Translated through a de-weaselizer, this says:

"Even though some of us used to work on Mozilla, we have to admit that the Mozilla code is a gigantic, bloated mess, not to mention slow, and with an internal API so flamboyantly baroque that frankly we can't even comprehend where to begin. Also did we mention big and slow and incomprehensible?"<hr></blockquote> :D

BuonRotto

01-10-2003, 01:41 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Amorya:
Don't shoot me, but I'd like that in a drawer. Or as an option, maybe...<hr></blockquote>

I was thinking the same thing, just too chicken to say it out-right. :) As an aside, I always wished that drawers could be pulled off to create inspectors/utility windows/palettes as per the user's whim.

stupider...likeafox

01-10-2003, 01:43 PM

The thing about small buttons is an accepted fact of UI design. It's called Fitt's law and Bruce Tognazzini is a big fan of it. It has been used for years in the Mac OS.

Who is Bruce 'Tog' Tognazzini - <a href="http://www.asktog.com/tog.html" target="_blank">http://www.asktog.com/tog.html</a>

Tog even lists it in his first principles
<a href="http://www.asktog.com/basics/firstPrinciples.html" target="_blank">http://www.asktog.com/basics/firstPrinciples.html</a>

and here's a quiz about it
<a href="http://www.asktog.com/columns/022DesignedToGiveFitts.html" target="_blank">http://www.asktog.com/columns/022DesignedToGiveFitts.html</a>

You can even test it on yourself if you've got Java.
<a href="http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~cs5724/g1/" target="_blank">http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~cs5724/g1/</a>

mpt has been a Mac user, and is generally a fan of Mac UI (though he seems to prefer the pre X interface). At the moment he seems to want to help implement an open source version of Mac OS X based on the old OpenStep/GnuStep code.

edit: added who is Tog

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: stupider...likeafox ]

JLL

01-10-2003, 02:03 PM

[quote]Combo boxes look rather lopsided, and have some details which are inherently unpredictable; so while they?re used frequently in MS Windows, and excessively in Gnome and KDE, I have yet to see any Apple software use them at all.<hr></blockquote>

Well perhaps it would help if he actually tried to run some Apple software and the OS.

Apple use combo boxes several places in Mac OS X.

Spart

01-10-2003, 02:04 PM

If you have problems with hitting buttons of that size then there is something wrong. :-P

Besides, the bigger the button, the more clutter as well. The current bar is perfect, smaller than any other mac browswer that displays the same info (even OW with no text and small icons.

Hobbes

01-10-2003, 02:36 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Amorya:
Don't shoot me, but I'd like that in a drawer. Or as an option, maybe...<hr></blockquote>

[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
I was thinking the same thing, just too chicken to say it out-right. :) <hr></blockquote>

I was fairly wary when considering a pane, esp. since we all know about Microsoft's overuse of sidebars in everything they do.

In the end, however, it seems like a really good solution for a friendly implementation of multipage browsing, for these reasons:

- The Page Pane would be dynamic, as the pages resize depending on how many pages are there. Drawers, otoh, tend to contain static elements.

- The importance of *not* be able to hide multiple pages. Drawers can always be tucked away, and have to allow this; I'm beginning to think that the pane would not. Why not? I think it's critical for multipage browsing to work well that pages always be reachable with a single click, and for open pages to always be shown on screen. It otherwise introduces various dangers for the user, including (a) to close one window and mistakenly close many pages without realizing it, and just as bad (b) be confused where a page went.

Any reasons why you think a drawer would be superior? I'm all ears.

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Hobbes ]

BuonRotto

01-10-2003, 03:04 PM

Mainly because drawers won't shrink or cut off content in the main window. This is also something that should be considered when you bring up the Bookmarks Library. I imagine with a drawer, you could drag bookmarks into the drawer to load in the background. It's also just consistent with other apps like Mail (which I know some people hate its behavior, and they have valid reasons, though it doesn't bother me), Preview and even BackUp.

stupider...likeafox

01-10-2003, 03:17 PM

[quote]Originally posted by JLL:

Apple use combo boxes several places in Mac OS X.<hr></blockquote>

Do you mean drop down lists or combo boxes (which combine drop down lists with text entry fields)?

<a href="http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Cocoa/TasksAndConcepts/ProgrammingTopics/ComboBox/index.html" target="_blank">http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Cocoa/TasksAndConcepts/ProgrammingTopics/ComboBox/index.html</a>

I can't think of a use, that doesn't mean there isn't any, but they certainly aren't common.

edit: here's an image
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Cocoa/TasksAndConcepts/ProgrammingTopics/ComboBox/Concepts/art/comboBoxWithList.gif

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: stupider...likeafox ]

Cosmic Trigger

01-10-2003, 03:57 PM

I love Safari.
One thing:
In keeping with the iLife apps, it would be helpful for me to have direct access to iTunes like iPhoto 2 and iMovie 3 does, since I listen to music while I surf. As of now I keep having to pull up iTunes if I want to change songs, etc. Having iTunes integrated would be more convenient.

CT

JLL

01-10-2003, 05:18 PM

[quote]Originally posted by stupider...likeafox:


Do you mean drop down lists or combo boxes (which combine drop down lists with text entry fields)?

I can't think of a use, that doesn't mean there isn't any, but they certainly aren't common.<hr></blockquote>

http://lunddal.dk/macnn/1.jpg

http://lunddal.dk/macnn/2.jpg

http://lunddal.dk/macnn/3.jpg

Paul

01-10-2003, 05:48 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Cosmic Trigger:
I love Safari.
One thing:
In keeping with the iLife apps, it would be helpful for me to have direct access to iTunes like iPhoto 2 and iMovie 3 does, since I listen to music while I surf. As of now I keep having to pull up iTunes if I want to change songs, etc. Having iTunes integrated would be more convenient.

CT<hr></blockquote>

bad idea

a better way is to have access to iTunes through a menuitem like iChat

there is an app called M-Beat that does this, and it works, but an Apple® solution would be better.

furthermore, you can also use the dock icon to switch songs...

moki

01-10-2003, 08:01 PM

New version of Safari is out (v1.0 beta v51) -- Grab it here... <a href="http://www.apple.com/safari/download/" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/safari/download/</a>

I'm guessing it just fixes the "delete entire home directory" bug (which only can happen under fairly specific circumstances).

Spart

01-10-2003, 09:30 PM

Thanks for the heads-up moki.

Paul

01-10-2003, 09:36 PM

[quote]Originally posted by moki:
New version of Safari is out (v1.0 beta v51) -- Grab it here... <a href="http://www.apple.com/safari/download/" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/safari/download/</a>

I'm guessing it just fixes the "delete entire home directory" bug (which only can happen under fairly specific circumstances).<hr></blockquote>

what about the flash bug? actually there have been a number of bugs that already have been addressed and fixed (according to that hyatt guy... what is his name? he has a blog too I bet that outlines the changes)

stunned

01-10-2003, 09:43 PM

Thanks Moki. Now I do not live in fear. :D

Giaguara

01-10-2003, 09:50 PM

Safari Licence
[quote] The term of this License shall commence upon your download or first use of the Apple Software and will terminate automatically without notice from Apple upon the commercial release of the Apple Software, or June 30, 2003, whichever occurs first. <hr></blockquote>

iPay? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Mulattabianca ]

Not Unlike Myself

01-10-2003, 09:53 PM

nah, they are just covering their bums.

(the celebrity jeopardy episode with anal-bum-covers and sean connery comes to mind)

Brad

01-10-2003, 09:55 PM

MB: I doubt it. That is just a safeguard to be sure someone doesn't keep using the beta forever and gets the final version when it's available. Quit Safari, set your clock forward a year, and relaunch Safari. See?

Giaguara

01-10-2003, 09:58 PM

okay .... opensource and khtml? give the code!!
it will be curious to follow the migrations btw chimera and safari. no tabs - thus chimera. besides, isn't the time of the payable browsers over??

SledgeHammer

01-10-2003, 10:00 PM

Something I just noticed. In Chimera (and possibly other browsers, but Chimera is all I used for a long time before Safari) the cursor disapears when you use the arrow keys to scroll (kind of like in Word, the cursor diasappears when you type) as to get out of your way, till you use the mouse. That's a subtle yet handy little feature that I'd like to see in Safari. It's annoying to be reading a web page ans have the cursor in the way of what your reading, and it's just nice to not have to worry about remembering to move the cursor off to the side.

Giaguara

01-10-2003, 10:02 PM

Brad, that's about what was written in Opera before their commercial vrsion came out. And beta didn't work then... i don't want to play with the clock, so in that case i just trash it. anyway, chimera untill safari gets tabs and beats the speed of my boosted version.

Spart

01-10-2003, 10:04 PM

I noticed this almost immediately and sent them feedback when I started using Safari.

It can be pretty annoying. Not that I'm saying Safari is evil or anything, for you defenders out there. It is a beta, after all.

Brad

01-10-2003, 10:05 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Mulattabianca:
okay .... opensource and khtml? give the code!!<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/webcore/index.html" target="_blank">http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/webcore/index.html</a>

Like Mac OS X with Darwin, Safari is not *entirely* open sourced. The important parts (WebCore and JavaScriptCore) are and can be used in your own apps. Ken from Omni has stated that they are considering using these components in the next major update to OmniWeb.

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Brad ]

Spart

01-10-2003, 10:06 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Mulattabianca:
Brad, that's about what was written in Opera before their commercial vrsion came out. And beta didn't work then... i don't want to play with the clock, so in that case i just trash it. anyway, chimera untill safari gets tabs and beats the speed of my boosted version.<hr></blockquote>

I really don't think Apple can afford to repackage X with a free browser (other than Safari if it remains free) again, and make it look crappier than it should.

[ 01-10-2003: Message edited by: Spart ]

Whyatt Thrash

01-10-2003, 10:24 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Cosmic Trigger:
... As of now I keep having to pull up iTunes if I want to change songs, etc....<hr></blockquote>

No you don't. Right-click the iTunes icon and use the "next" or "previous" menu-items...

Giaguara

01-10-2003, 10:44 PM

Thanx for the link, Brad :)

stupider...likeafox

01-11-2003, 12:17 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Whyatt Thrash:
No you don't. Right-click the iTunes icon and use the "next" or "previous" menu-items...<hr></blockquote>

Anyone who is still doing this needs to download youpi key and use it to configure previous, next and play/pause shortcut keys.

<a href="http://perso.club-internet.fr/phupe/english/YKIndex.html" target="_blank">http://perso.club-internet.fr/phupe/english/YKIndex.html</a>

tell application "iTunes"
playpause
end tell

tell application "iTunes"
previous track
end tell

tell application "iTunes"
next track
end tell