Jerry Falwell Dead at 73

[Frank777]

Evangelist Jerry Falwell (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070515.wfalwell0515/BNStory/International/home) has passed away at 73.

While I'm sure this development will stir vigorous debate on his legacy (and has already unleashed vitriolic responses on the newspaper forums) Falwell had a profound impact on his generation, built some amazing educational institutions and, of course, was never afraid of a TV camera. ;)

My sympathies to his family, his church and those who served with him.

[Jubelum]

Peace be to the Reverend and his family. Godspeed.

[SpamSandwich]

I agree, Falwell contributed nothing but strife.

[Outsider]

Enjoy your dirt-nap (http://www.flickr.com/photos/frauenfelder/495568729/in/set-72157600208546405/).

[iPoster]

http://www.neowin.net/forum/fun/room_of_those_who_care.jpg

Unfortunate for him and his family of course, I would never wish death on anyone; but his public facade was one of extreme fundamentalism and intolerance, hence I won't be shedding any tears...

[MacRR]

Fuck him.

And I bet his family are all winning personalities too.

[Outsider]

Overheard on kos:
In an interview just last week, Falwell said he stands by his statements after 9/11, blaming "abortionists," gays, lesbians, the ACLU and People for American Way for helping to cause the attacks.

In the same interview, (last week) he said he is asking God to grant him at least 20 more years of life in order to complete his mission. He cited a story in which a man on his deathbed, asked God for 15 more years and received it. Falwell was encouraged by this story, hinting that God is willing to intercede in death, granting renewed life for a blessed few who are righteous enough to deserve such. Falwell hopeful that God would be as impressed and generous with his own request.

I guess God gave him his answer!

[Jubelum]

Good riddance.

... and those of us on the right are called hate-filled and cold-hearted. Congrats for being the first one (and I am sure of many) to dance on a man's grave for political reasons. Nice touch. I guess that "compassion" thing is only good for when we need to guilt someone else into thinking like we do.

:no:

Regardless of his politics (that often made me cringe and yell at the TV in anger) he was a human being worthy of the smallest amount of respect in death. You have years, until your own personal demise, Shawn, to review the legacy of this particular man. I know in your huge liberal heart that you do not really mean that cold-hearted "good riddance."

[hardeeharhar]

Compassion for him?

No. Absolutely fucking not.

For his family... well ok, maybe a little.

He was an asshat and will hopefully always be remembered as an asshat.

[franksargent]

Overheard on kos:
In an interview just last week, Falwell said he stands by his statements after 9/11, blaming "abortionists," gays, lesbians, the ACLU and People for American Way for helping to cause the attacks.

In the same interview, (last week) he said he is asking God to grant him at least 20 more years of life in order to complete his mission. He cited a story in which a man on his deathbed, asked God for 15 more years and received it. Falwell was encouraged by this story, hinting that God is willing to intercede in death, granting renewed life for a blessed few who are righteous enough to deserve such. Falwell hopeful that God would be as impressed and generous with his own request.

I guess God gave him his answer!

http://www.glossynews.com/artman/uploads/god_middle_finger.jpg

[@_@ Artman]

Wow this thread is seething with hate.

What would ever bring that about? (http://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2007/05/jerry_falwell_in_his_own_words.php)

I have good memories of Jerry Falwell. The days when my friends and I would go to the Dead Kennedys show and sing along with Jello. Good times....

"Moral Majority"

You call yourself the Moral Majority
We call ourselves the people in the real world
Trying to rub us out, but we're going to survive
God must be dead if you're alive

You say, 'God loves you. Come and buy the Good News'
Then you buy the president and swimming pools
If Jesus don't save 'til we're lining your pockets
God must be dead if you're alive

Circus-tent con-men and Southern belle bunnies
Milk your emotions then they steal your money
It's the new dark ages with the fascists toting bibles
Cheap nostalgia for the Salem Witch Trials

Stodgy ayatollahs in their double-knit ties
Burn lots of books so they can feed you their lies
Masturbating with a flag and a bible
God must be dead if you're alive

Blow it out your ass, Jerry Falwell
Blow it out your ass, Jesse Helms
Blow it out your ass, Ronald Reagan
What's wrong with a mind of my own?

You don't want abortions, you want battered children
You want to ban the pill as if that solves the problem
Now you wanna force us to pray in school
God must be dead if you're such a fool

You're planning for a war with or without Iran
Building a police state with the Ku Klux Klan
Pissed at your neighbor? Don't bother to nag
Pick up the phone and turn in a fag

Blow it out your ass, Terry Dolan
Blow it out your ass, Phyllis Schlafly
Ram it up your cunt, Anita
Cos God must be dead
If you're alive
God must be dead
If you're alive

Goodnight funny-man. Goodnight. :smokey:

[franksargent]

Hater (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRts3dowCQk)

In the clip, which the band dedicates to "Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and all others who hate in the name of Jesus," a man wearing a crown of thorns wakes up in a haze to find whippet shells in his bloody palms. He then spends the better part of the day checking his "HaterJesus" MySpace profile, looking at porn, using a cross for strength training, taking money from the homeless, drinking while driving, and unzipping his pants to reveal a statue of the Virgin Mary.

Some people may fine the video "slightly" offensive.

You reap what you sow. And Falwell, et. al. have certainly done that, hate begaters one and all!

[sammi jo]

Condolences to Falwell's family and friends.

*

Of course Rev. Falwell will get a "Christian" funeral...however he was one of the most effective ambassadors of the "inverted Christianity" practised by the US religious right.. which (albeit a little oversimplified) implies "blessed are the mean, for they shall inherit the earth", and "if you're not like us, then go to hell". "Moral Majority"... oh dear, oh dear. Even to this non-Christian, it is glaringly obvious that hatred and exclusion are not Christian values

Falwell, or course, endorsed the King James Bible of 1611. I wonder if he knew that the man whose painstaking work went into producing the work that Christians regard was the "Word of God" was not only a HOMOSEXUAL, but also a PEDOPHILE who had open affairs with young boys. :grumble:

[Jubelum]

Condolences to Falwell's family and friends.

*

Of course Rev. Falwell will get a "Christian" funeral...however he was one of the most effective ambassadors of the "inverted Christianity" practised by the US religious right.. which (albeit a little oversimplified) implies "blessed are the mean, for they shall inherit the earth", and "if you're not like us, then go to hell". "Moral Majority"... oh dear, oh dear. Even to this non-Christian, it is glaringly obvious that hatred and exclusion are not Christian values

Falwell, or course, endorsed the King James Bible of 1611. I wonder if he knew that the man whose painstaking work went into producing the work that Christians regard was the "Word of God" was not only a HOMOSEXUAL, but also a PEDOPHILE who had open affairs with young boys. :grumble:

Wait until the body is cold, then go start a thread or something.
But whatever, unencumbered by the constraints of conscience.

You are making a case against hate and stereotyping with, uh, more hate and stereotyping. Good show.

[SpamSandwich]

The revisionism begins today. McCain had nothing but praise for Falwell in the news today. Why can't they just let dead dogs lie?

[MacRR]

To see this chode remembered all across the media is a fucking insult.

[Frank777]

Of course Rev. Falwell will get a "Christian" funeral...however he was one of the most effective ambassadors of the "inverted Christianity" practised by the US religious right.. which (albeit a little oversimplified) implies "blessed are the mean, for they shall inherit the earth", and "if you're not like us, then go to hell". "Moral Majority"... oh dear, oh dear. Even to this non-Christian, it is glaringly obvious that hatred and exclusion are not Christian values

Falwell, or course, endorsed the King James Bible of 1611. I wonder if he knew that the man whose painstaking work went into producing the work that Christians regard was the "Word of God" was not only a HOMOSEXUAL, but also a PEDOPHILE who had open affairs with young boys. :grumble:

It's easy enough to let this thread stand as a case study into how the mean-spirited and hateful portions of the Left truly are.

However, as usual, Sammi has come in with outright lies which must be challenged.

The KJV was produced by royal decree and was a national project undertaken during the reign of its namesake.

However, King James was not a Bible Translator and did not undertake any "painstaking work" in the production of the translation.

From Wikipedia:

"Although it is often referred to as the King James Version, particularly in the United States, the only active part King James took in the translation was lifting the death penalty attached to translating the Bible and setting some guidelines for the translation process, such as prohibiting partisan scholarship and footnotes. It is more commonly known as the "Authorized Version" in the United Kingdom."

As usual Sammi, you're just spouting the usual hearsay and nonsense. Which might be an improvement over the hate that's being spewed so far, but only slightly.

[MacRR]

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/falwell.htm


Most of you probably don't know anyone from NYC who died that day- but this fucking chode....

like I said, an insult to remember this chucklehead. This POS should be tossed in a junkyard to rot.

You can call it lefty hate, but you don't get a pass on being a waste of humanity just cause you passed away.

Any real American should feel disgusted by this chode.

[Jubelum]

To see this chode remembered all across the media is a fucking insult.

Just like both your posts in this thread. How ironic. :\

[Jubelum]

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/jubelum_ammo/Attention-Flags.jpg

Wow. What did Falwell do to you? Please do tell..

"real American" :lol:

[sammi jo]

You are making a case against hate and stereotyping with, uh, more hate and stereotyping. Good show.

What hatred are you referring to? Where do find hatred in the quoting of wellknown historical facts, as well as pointing out duplicity?

:(

I was making the point that a principle cornerstone of his brand of faith is the active intolerance of many of the world's people. That is undeniable, surely. Just read or listen to any of his addresses. Anyone who has any pretence at genuine Christianity knows that such intolerance is 180º in opposition to Jesus' teachings.

And considering that the translation/complition of book which is (allegedly) "Gods Words" from which he derived his ranting was overseen by one of those men who he alleges that "God Hates".. ie a "fag"... such double standards and hypocrisy are hard to beat.

Yes, Jerry Falwell might have gone to Church every Sunday, perhaps more. He might have quoted from the Bible every other breath. But he was a charlatan, and a very successful businessman as well, that is, if one measures success in terms of Earthly acquisitions. But to quote the bumper sticker, "going to Church does not make you a Christian any more than going to the gas station makes you a car".

I hope Rev. Falwell rests in peace now. I doubt that he was at peace during his earthly life.

By the way, referring to hatred is not an act of hate. People who talk about the Holocaust, for example, are not hatemongers.

[Jubelum]

Falwell, or course, endorsed the King James Bible of 1611. I wonder if he knew that the man whose painstaking work went into producing the work that Christians regard was the "Word of God" was not only a HOMOSEXUAL, but also a PEDOPHILE who had open affairs with young boys. :grumble:

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/jubelum_ammo/Misc-JesusThanks.jpg

Thanks for the disinformation... and for getting pwned by Frank777.

[Jubelum]

By the way, referring to hatred is not an act of hate. People who talk about the Holocaust, for example, are not hatemongers.

Throwing out a bunch of easily refuted lies in an attempt to defame is a hateful thing to do, especially when it comes to a blanket indictment of an entire group rather than a person. Your (hate) "disdain" for the Christian Right is apparent, otherwise, why attempt to distort history to illustrate your meaningless point and, in effect, call Christians hypocrites and hate-mongers.

[Akumulator]

The world is truly a better place without him. I don't feel bad saying that and it comes with absolutely no hatred on my part.

[MacRR]

Whateveah Jube

Are you saying you agree with the guy's philosophies?

Or are you going to thinly veil it as respect for the dead- solely?

That guy has no idea wtf he was talking about- and I hope a teletubby is butt raping his ass in the 9th plane of hell.

he certainly earned it.

[Frank777]

Any real American should feel disgusted by this chode.

So now people who disagree with you should be branded "Un-American". How Cheney of you.

[sammi jo]

It's easy enough to let this thread stand as a case study into how the mean-spirited and hateful portions of the Left truly are.

However, as usual, Sammi has come in with outright lies which must be challenged.

The KJV was produced by royal decree and was a national project undertaken during the reign of its namesake.

However, King James was not a Bible Translator and did not undertake any "painstaking work" in the production of the translation.

From Wikipedia:

"Although it is often referred to as the King James Version, particularly in the United States, the only active part King James took in the translation was lifting the death penalty attached to translating the Bible and setting some guidelines for the translation process, such as prohibiting partisan scholarship and footnotes. It is more commonly known as the "Authorized Version" in the United Kingdom."

As usual Sammi, you're just spouting the usual hearsay and nonsense. Which might be an improvement over the hate that's being spewed so far, but only slightly.

King James was what these days could be called the 'executive director" of the project. From your own wiki entry he wet the follownng rules and guidelines:

King James' instructions included requirements that:
The ordinary Bible, read in the church, commonly called the Bishops' Bible, to be followed, and as little altered as the original will permit....
The old ecclesiastical words to be kept; as the word church, not to be translated congregation, &c.
When any word hath divers significations, that to be kept which has been most commonly used by the most eminent fathers, being agreeable to the propriety of the place, and the analogy of the faith....
No marginal notes at all to be affixed, but only for the explanation of the Hebrew or Greek words, which cannot, without some circumlocution, so briefly and fitly be expressed in the text.
Such quotations of places to be marginally set down, as shall serve for the fit references of one scripture to another....
These translations to be used when they agree better with the text than the Bishops' Bible, viz. Tyndale's, Coverdale's, Matthew Bible, Whitchurch, Geneva.

And also, from the same wiki entry, the Copyright of the Bible resides with the British Crown, (despite the fact that there is no valid copyright for the Bible anywhere else on the planet). Hence the term "authorized version".

[MacRR]

STFU canadian.

I remember when you shit on ww2 vets- so you pretty much may as well ignore me.

Cheney, America- really, none of your concern.

Make sure to stay north, d00d!

I am sure you liek to come here and post on an American site based on an American company, and that's fine by me.

But don't think you can address me with any kind of authority.

[Jubelum]

Whateveah Jube

Are you saying you agree with the guy's philosophies?

Or are you going to thinly veil it as respect for the dead- solely?

That guy has no idea wtf he was talking about- and I hope a teletubby is butt raping his ass in the 9th plane of hell.

he certainly earned it.

Dude, you really have some anger issues you need to work out. Do you think that coming up with ever more graphic "I hope...XXX" phrases is going to make everyone here fawn over your creativity? Or understand better the theme that "MacRR does not like Jerry Falwell." It's just coming across as something from a 9th grade locker room.

Did you read my posts, or are you just knee jerking and flame baiting? The guy made me scream at my TV quite often and cringe with being a "spokesman" for Christian Conservatives. I do not think he was a credit to the cause in the past 20 years, or even relevant in 21st Century America. My point is that a person, however controversial or vile in thine eyes, has passed away and that might be an occasion for a little respect, rather than one more of Larry Flynt's wet dreams rendered in pixels. Just an idea. But hey, show us who you are.

[MacRR]

So what?

I can say whatever I want. I have no qualms about being honest. I am a straight shooter.

I think the guy is a scum bag. For him to make that tragedy about him, his god, and his politics was wrong. The fact that he really believed that removed him from the human race IMO- much like any scumbag. I'd have liked to have seen him go to NYC after he said that. But of course, he wouldn't. Most likely cause a teletubby stole his balls.

So you feel compelled to defend him to me?

Why would that be?

That's your trip, man.

It's not about politics- I am in the middle on that. neither left nor right. so if you think about going there, let me just stop you before you get started.

[Jubelum]

So you feel compelled to defend him to me?

Why would that be?


Are you blind? Deaf? Willfully ignorant? READ MY POSTS. Twice now I have said the same thing... :lol:

You are posting like a jackass looking for a fight with someone who loves Falwell. I guess so you can pull out the *really* raunchy fantasies to bless us with. We'll "it tain't me, brother."

Scene 1: Jerry Falwell walks into a talent agent's office with his mom, Larry Flynt, and a Teletubby.... .... .... .... the Aristocrats!

[franksargent]

Going DOWN?

http://www.smijer.com/blog/archives/jfalwell.jpg
http://hellskitchenpodcast.com/99_at_the_gates_of_hell.jpg

[Jubelum]

STFU canadian. I remember when you shit on ww2 vets- so you pretty much may as well ignore me. Cheney, America- really, none of your concern. Make sure to stay north, d00d! I am sure you liek to come here and post on an American site based on an American company, and that's fine by me. But don't think you can address me with any kind of authority.

Ok... I am an American. I'll address you:

Hereby spoken as American vicar of the Great Frank of the North:

So now people who disagree with you should be branded "Un-American". How Cheney of you.


There you go. Now it's from an *American.* Fire away. :D

[MacRR]

My reply is:

NUTS!

[sammi jo]

Throwing out a bunch of easily refuted lies in an attempt to defame is a hateful thing to do, especially when it comes to a blanket indictment of an entire group rather than a person. Your (hate) "disdain" for the Christian Right is apparent, otherwise, why attempt to distort history to illustrate your meaningless point and, in effect, call Christians hypocrites and hate-mongers.

Total unadulterated BS!! :rolleyes:

The "Christian Right" is one heck of an oxymoron. :wow:

Falwell and company have precious little do with Jesus, apart from co-opting that name, and then using the label of "Christianity" as a means to perpetrate spiritual blackmail on their followers to wield power and make cartloads of MONEY. Charlatans like him have been pulling stunts like that throughout the ages... ie misrepresenting the words of a spiritual master and using them for their own ends. There are lots of good people who follow(ed) Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson etc. and gotten ripped off. "Falwellism", and Christianity as taught by Jesus, are so far apart as to be unreconcilable

These guys are prime examples of the false prophets that Jesus taught (Christians) to beware of. Robertson, Falwell and their ilk are playing with peoples' minds and fears and milking them for their very earthly cash. Falwell and co. are more about Mammon, mindgames, manipulation and materialism. It's a flawed part of human nature we're dealing with here, which allows for conmen with loud voices and public speaking skills to use the name of a revered person for greed and power. Jesus is not the only originator of a faith whose name is being used in corrupt ways wholly at odds with what the teacher intended. Any faith are subject to piracy by fakes and phonys.

[ronaldo]

A great day for Larry Flynt. The saviour of the first amendment.

[franksargent]

http://www.internetparodies.org/popupmole/jftop.gif
http://www.internetparodies.org/popupmole/jfwak3.gif
http://www.internetparodies.org/popupmole/jfbot.gif

http://www.internetparodies.org/jerrysatan.jpg

[tonton]

Wow. What did Falwell do to you? Please do tell..

"real American" :lol:

Hello little, sad little boy.

When you witness someone causing hate and harm to countless others, it does not matter in the least "what he did to me".

Shall I ask you why you hate Bin Laden?

[Jubelum]

Hello little, sad little boy.


You used to really have it, tonton. Is this the best you can do in your dotage?

I am trying to ascertain why another user has SUCH a vitriolic view of a recently deceased non-user. I am seeking to understand if there are real reasons, or just that "he's a righty, fuck em" All i keep hearing are graphic and violent/sexual fantasies about a deceased minister, and well, shit, my curiosity is piqued.

Don't you have a predictable, meaningless argument to get to on some thread about now?

[Jubelum]

Any faith are subject to piracy by fakes and phonys.

My goodness, thank god you are here! Please, sammi jo, bless us with the names of some Christians who are "real Christians" in your all knowing sight... I mean, surely you are able to name others who are OK... or do you have a problem with Christianity itself? I need to know who I might look to that will not align me with the kind of bile I've seen around here today.

[tonton]

You used to really have it, tonton. Is this the best you can do in your dotage?

I am trying to ascertain why another user has SUCH a vitriolic view of a recently deceased non-user. I am seeking to understand if there are real reasons, or just that "he's a righty, fuck em" All i keep hearing are graphic and violent/sexual fantasies about a deceased minister, and well, shit, my curiosity is piqued.

Don't you have a predictable, meaningless argument to get to on some thread about now?

JF has personally spread so much hate against people that I love, people in my community, people in my country, who really ought to have the freedom to live their lives as they see fit, as long as it does not harm others.

What JF did was specifically to harm others. Others he disagreed with. Others he judged himself "morally superior" to.

And he did this his entire life, to enourmous success.

He was a main contributor to exactly what is wrong with Christianity in the United States of America. He spread the moral aggression against peopceful people. He spread hate and lies.

Surely if you care about Christianity, you will not welcome such a false voice of God into your community, right?

[Jubelum]

Surely if you care about Christianity, you will not welcome such a false voice of God into your community, right?

I'm not going to post it a THIRD time for you people to read. Either you are lazy or just trying to pick a fight. So go answer your own question and quit flame-baiting.

As far as your recounting of JFs evils, I was not asking you, I was asking MacRR and he did not have an answer.

[Jubelum]

The damn funniest part of all of this is that ideologically, Falwell and I are at very different ends of the stick. I have been posting here since 2001 that the government should be out of our wallets, gun safes, and BEDROOMS. You know, that old small-government ideal that the government that governs least is the one that governs best?

I find it funny that so many on this board want to increase the power and scope of the federal government, while at the same time decrying that freedoms to live as you wish are disappearing. What an amazing problem that must be. Finally many of you, under the Reign of King George, are seeing that a big, powerful, dogmatic government is not always going to be used to support your particular worldview. In fact, it can take just as much freedom from you as you were glad to see taken from the "other side."


Two ideas come to mind...

"The government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."

"When the government's boot in on your throat, wether it is the right or the left boot makes no difference."


I will state one final time that I was not a fan of Falwell, I think he went too far, damaged both his own effort and those he was attempting to enforce his upon. (See my EARLIER POST) Does that make you lock-step folks happy? Satisfied now? Think you have "won" something from someone who largely agreed with you in the first place? Because I swear to Einstein that my head will explode if I have answer one more flame-bait looking for a Falwell fanboi. My only point was that it was in poor taste and a bit cold-hearted to not give a person at least basic respect upon their demise.

[Jubelum]

Projecting much, Jube?
We get your point about respecting the dead.
You just don't have to chase down every poster that conflicts with that view.

I'd say they have been chasing me down.. looking to take out some FalwellAngst. Show me anywhere in this thread where I have said that I like the man or his policies. Now, observe the following:


Surely if you care about Christianity, you will not welcome such a false voice of God into your community, right?

Are you saying you agree with the guy's philosophies?


So you feel compelled to defend him to me? Why would that be? That's your trip, man.


The FLAME BAIT Buffet! Now just $6.66!

[Gilsch]

R.I.P I guess he must've lost his direct line to God. Darn internets!

[segovius]

It's easy enough to let this thread stand as a case study into how the mean-spirited and hateful portions of the Left truly are.

Maybe this is true - maybe not.

But what I wonder is; why the hell did religion and faith ever become about 'left' and 'right'?

It didn't come from JC that's for sure...it was people like Falwell that made that littel dream reality.

Faith has nothig to do with politics and shouldn't have. In the US it has everything to do with it....

[segovius]

My only point was that it was in poor taste and a bit cold-hearted to not give a person at least basic respect upon their demise.

I don't recall that applying to Saddam, Uday or Zarqawi so you will have to add a rider. Something like: "if they are 'good guys" or "if they deserve it".

But that would then blow your argument out of the water as a universal and mean that perhaps JF does not in fact deserve respect because of who he is.

So you'd be back to square one.

I'd say you have a fallacious argument there....

But hey, you're right..the guy is dead so let's remember him as he lived his Christian walk and for all his comforting words of spiritual solace:

“homosexuals are brute beasts...part of a vile and satanic system that will be utterly annihilated, and there will be a celebration in heaven.”

“Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions”

“AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals”

“Someone must not be afraid to say, ‘moral perversion is wrong.’ If we do not act now, homosexuals will own America!.. If you and I do not speak up now, this homosexual steamroller will literally crush all decent men, women, and children who get in its way…and our nation will pay a terrible price!”

“I listen to feminists and all these radical gals - most of them are failures. They’ve blown it. Some of them have been married, but they married some Casper Milquetoast who asked permission to go to the bathroom. These women just need a man in the house. That’s all they need. Most of the feminists need a man to tell them what time of day it is and to lead them home. And they blew it and they’re mad at all men. Feminists hate men. They’re sexist. They hate men - that’s their problem.”

“The whole (global warming) thing is created to destroy America’s free enterprise system and our economic stability”


I guess we'll all miss him...comedy gold......

[Jubelum]

#9, 15, 20, and 21 were all you initiating it and engaging someone for generally not being respectful enough of the dead.

We get your point.

I get your point that you get my point. Sounds pointless. I take it as it comes, and basic lack of respect for the dead disturbs me. And it is revealing about what is within people deep down as they tell the rest of us to be compassionate and empathetic with our votes and wallets.

[Jubelum]

I don't recall that applying to Saddam, Uday or Zarqawi so you will have to add a rider. Something like: "if they are 'good guys" or "if they deserve it".

But that would then blow your argument out of the water as a universal and mean that perhaps JF does not in fact deserve respect because of who he is.

So you'd be back to square one.

I'd say you have a fallacious argument there....

Wow, Moral equivalency between three murdering, torturing, and raping dictators and a largely irrelevant pastor with no such terroristic qualifications. Hey, whatever floats your boat. I did not advocate the public spectacle of the Husseins, nor did I think that their deaths were lacking in the human tragedy.

[segovius]

Wow, Moral equivalency between three murdering, torturing, and raping dictators and a largely irrelevant pastor with no such terroristic qualifications. Hey, whatever floats your boat. I did not advocate the public spectacle of the Husseins, nor did I think that their deaths were lacking in the human tragedy.

So you ARE saying that respect is dependent on moral quality?

A minute ago you were saying it was nothing to do with Falwell's stance but respect for a dead human being....

Which is it?

Oh...wait....don't worry...we've got it worked out....

[Gilsch]

So you ARE saying that respect is dependent on moral quality?

A minute ago you were saying it was nothing to do with Falwell's stance but respect for a dead human being.... ZING!

[SpcMs]

As someone on some other board wrote:

"I feel that Falwell was a genuinely evil person. The only think that seperates him from someone like Osama Bin Laden are the cutural norms of the societies that surround them. Put Falwell in the 16th century and you can bet he'd be right there torturing heretics and murdering unbelievers.

his soul was the soul of a monster."

And that's the TRUTH.

[Bergermeister]

This is one foul-mouthed jerk who will not be missed.

Too many people's lives were screwed up by this guy and his blabber; my family was irreversibly harmed by him many years ago.

Someone beat me to it, but: Good riddance.

[Outsider]

People who want you to fiercely respect the dead rarely respect the living.

[trailmaster308]

He had great Evangelical hair.....

That slicked back look is a must before starting a career such as his.

His hair will be sorely missed. :embarrass

[MacRR]

Jube-

i have never picked a fight with you.

I just stated my opinion and you came flying out to defend some dead teletubic weirdo fuck of a loser.

I am sorry, but considering how you are going after anyone who says anything they felt about the guy that isn't solemn respect- it's you man.

Anyways- it's sort of infers that you agreed with the sub-man and all his hate filled BS, and can't bear to see anyone speak badly of him.

Well, jube- the guy said and believed a lot of very bad stuff.

So...

I hope the triangle headed teletubby is boinking him in the poopshoot repeatedly with no lube in the 9th circle of hell with the other teletubbies in the wings getting ready to tag team his ass for eternity.

don't blow a gasket. That's just how I feel.

and it's not hate, or like I am angry. It's just funny to disrespect that fat fuck of a chode.
I mean- I could go on all day!

[MacRR]

NM- I misread.

:D

[@_@ Artman]

My only point was that it was in poor taste and a bit cold-hearted to not give a person at least basic respect upon their demise.

He's dead. Get over it. His family won't of course. Praying (BEGGING) to a false god that he gets the express train to paradise. Hate to be blunt, but that's my take on it. Falwell and his ilk have turned this country around 180 degrees into the Middle Ages. What is not there to hate? Let me count the ways:

"God is a Republican" - Jerry Falwell - 1979

"Jesus was the First American." - Jerry Falwell - circa 1977

"I do question the sincerity of people like the Reverend Martin Luther King..." Jerry Falwell - 1965

"Archbishop Desmond Tutu is a phony." - Jerry Falwell - August 24, 1985

"The Beast (The Antichrist) when comes he must be, of necessity, a Jewish male" - Jerry Falwell - 2006

"I hope to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we don't have public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them." - Jerry Falwell - 1979

"The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country." - Jerry Falwell - July 4, 1976

"If we are going to save America and evangelize the world, we cannot accommodate secular philosophies that are diametrically opposed to Christian truth ... We need to pull out all the stops to recruit and train 25 million Americans to become informed pro-moral activists whose voices can be heard in the halls of Congress." - Jerry Falwell - September, 1984

"The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history..." - Jerry Falwell - September 1982

"Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them." - Jerry Falwell - May 17, 1997

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" - Jerry Falwell - September 2001

"The (gay-oriented) Metropolitan Community Churches are brute beasts and a vile and Satanic system that will one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven..." - Jerry Falwell - 1984

And his controversies Falwell generated followed a predictable loop.
1.) Falwell would say something hateful or clownish about some person or group associated with liberalism.
2.) A public outcry would ensue.
3.) Falwell would apologize and retract the offending comment.
4.) Falwell would repeat the comment, slightly rephrased.

I don't think the bouncer St. Peter will give him that much leeway...:smokey:

[MacRR]

Don't forget!

"As a Christian I feel that role modeling the gay lifestyle is damaging to the moral lives of children." -- After a 1999 article in Falwell's National Liberty Journal characterizing a "Teletubbies" character as gay

haha.. what a fucktard.

I mean- teletubbies is trippy.. a bit scary even. That sun baby thing when it cried made me want to run out of the room!

But where did this skidmark of a man come up with this shit?

[thuh Freak]

A great day for Larry Flynt. The saviour of the first amendment.

link (http://www.accesshollywood.com/news/ah5356.shtml?dst=rss|general_rss) apparently our favorite hustler doesn't have as much animus for this asshat as we might expect. though diametrically opposed on moral issues (or at least one issue), flynt and the clown had a reasonable relationship. even evil has some nice qualities if you meet them face to face.

[FormerLurker]

link (http://www.accesshollywood.com/news/ah5356.shtml?dst=rss|general_rss) apparently our favorite hustler doesn't have as much animus for this asshat as we might expect. though diametrically opposed on moral issues (or at least one issue), flynt and the clown had a reasonable relationship. even evil has some nice qualities if you meet them face to face.
Al Sharpton on Hardball last night made similar comments - he basically said he found Falwell to be a nice person and considered him a friend, even if he disagreed firmly with many/most of his views.

[Jubelum]

So you ARE saying that respect is dependent on moral quality?


No, I am not saying that at all... just an aside for your benefit, since you made the point.

A basic pause of respect for a dead human is a constant cross-culturally.
The appraisal of their legacy while a living person is another thing altogether, generally done after that above.

My issue is that the human loss was ignored in deference to an instant outpouring of hatred and a particularly distasteful variety of schadenfreude. And considering the sources of such postings, I think it was particularly hypocritical.

[MacRR]

No hypocritical would be giving this man the respect he didn't give a whole lot of people when he was alive.

Did telejerry give any respect to the dead or their families on 9/11?

Again- hypocritical.

[segovius]

No, I am not saying that at all... just an aside for your benefit, since you made the point.

A basic pause of respect for a dead human is a constant cross-culturally.
The appraisal of their legacy while a living person is another thing altogether, generally done after that above.

My issue is that the human loss was ignored in deference to an instant outpouring of hatred and a particularly distasteful variety of schadenfreude. And considering the sources of such postings, I think it was particularly hypocritical.

Look, bottom line; Jesus preached and lived love and tolerance. Period.

Anyone who supports, justifies and spreads dissent and division - and Falwell and his supporters DO exactly that - is not a follwer of Jesus.

Of 'Christianity' maybe. Of the Republican Party almost certainly. Of the Church - perhaps on a good day but of Jesus....no.

So let's just call it like it is and take it from there. Then we can start talking about respect or otherwise.

No-one is deserving of respect because they happen to die...that is going to happen to us all just like it happens to every being that ever lived (except God).

There ain't no respect due for that. It's HOW you LIVED.

Now...back on topic...

What will his legacy be? Well, how about the Wonderful University (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6648265.stm) so eulogized by a poster above?

"The jury is still out on global warming," said the Rev Falwell, in a sermon broadcast on the internet in February this year.

"Despite all the hype by liberal politicians, the media, Hollywood and so forth, it is not yet proven by any means that greenhouse gas emissions are the cause of global warming."

His word is taken as gospel by the university's students.

One, Sharon Langat, says she thinks the attention paid to climate change is out of proportion.

"We should pay more attention to other global issues apart from global warming. I know there's money put there, I just don't think we should put that much money in there."

A lesson taught by Dr Thomas Ice, Liberty University's senior theologian, focuses on headaches like Armageddon, salvation and the Second Coming.

"It's a hoax, certainly," he says. "I think global warming is being used like many political issues to try to move the world from nationalism to internationalism or global governance."

Rigorous academic standards there. But let's not forget that Falwell also did his bit in the area of Middle Eastern Research and Inter-Faith Harmony when after 5 minutes rigorous skmming of fifth-hand sources he declared Muhammad was a terrorist (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2323897.stm) because he was a 'man of war'.

Well so is Bush. So was Moses, David and Joshua. So would Falwell himself be given half the chance as he supported war at every turn - but no matter. This is the peak of intellectual acumen and theological brilliance we are suppposed to 'respect'.

I say to do so would be demeaning to the human mind, demeaning to any sense of morality and human feeling and if there was such a thing as sin then it would probably be one of those too.

[giant]

A basic pause of respect for a dead human is a constant cross-culturally.
The appraisal of their legacy while a living person is another thing altogether, generally done after that above.

My issue is that the human loss was ignored in deference to an instant outpouring of hatred and a particularly distasteful variety of schadenfreude. And considering the sources of such postings, I think it was particularly hypocritical.
What a load of shit. You have no qualms about shooting someone over $20. You clearly have a set of criteria (criteria some of us would call completely batshit) that someone has to meet for you to care at all even about killing them yourself, much less their death from some other cause, so get off your soapbox.

[Jubelum]

You have no qualms about shooting someone over $20.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[giant]

LOL :lol:

[Jubelum]

LOL :lol:

Grow a set and answer the question. You have made an outrageous accusation, now explain it.

<edit: +36hrs - I thought so, giant. Cheap-shot, lying coward.>

[Jubelum]

Look, bottom line; Jesus preached and lived love and tolerance. Period.

OK, stepping away from a post-mortem on that awful yadda yadda yadda Falwell for a minute...

I think the money changers would disagree with your statement. I don't think there was much love and tolerance there.

Maybe there was "only one true Christian, and he died on the cross" (Nietzsche)

Those that need the angle to attack Christians and Christianity always go for "where is the peace, acceptance and love, you hypocrites?" Well, I agree with you, there is a HUGE problem with the modern Church in its application of those values. But it's intellectually lazy to say that there are not defined lines that lead to condemnation and an utter lack of tolerance in the Bible. Jesus was constantly rebuking his own Apostles for their misguided words and actions. Many who want to attack Christianity want to paint Jesus into this milquetoast whipping post that never took a stand or offended anyone out of the ideals of love and acceptance. It was a major theme of His time here, agreed. But to push the idea that Jesus was all-tolerant of everything and non-confrontational, and thus His followers should be, in not an accurate representation of the message. For most of us deluded Christian idiots, Jesus is the bar of tolerance and love that we should aspire to. Falwell, et al, took the other bar- the one of calling a spade a spade in his personal judgement, though highly contingent on interpretation.

Does the modern Church need to do a heck of a lot more to promote love and acceptance? Sure. I am a proud PoMo with Baptist roots and I can tell you that, true to our faith, we fall hugely short of the mark. And folks like Falwell really, IMHO, are problematic in their personal execution of their personal flavour of Christianity. Many in the non-fundie Christian community looked at Falwell as the crazy uncle we'd wince to claim, if at all.

Some of the quotes mentioned above are a huge and ongoing problem as we try to "get over" that very public "voice." I rejected Falwell as a speaker for all Christians just as some blacks have rejected Sharpton as their speaker. These people become media creations in their own right, and have little to do with the faith or belief of the average people they are being said to speak for. Who speaks for me? No one but me.

(Now, I know how things go around here. And before you go there, read the first line one more time.)

[MacRR]

Huh? give me a fucking break...



Falwell, et al, took the other bar- the one of calling a spade a spade in his personal judgement, though highly contingent on interpretation.

[Jubelum]

Huh? give me a fucking break...

Please, illuminate the issue, MacRR... I'd like to hear it.

[MacRR]

Actually, if you could illuminate that sentence.. I'd like to hear that. Expound please!

Please, illuminate the issue, MacRR... I'd like to hear it.

[segovius]

I think the money changers would disagree with your statement. I don't think there was much love and tolerance there.

I don't think it is a question of 'tolerance'. You seem unable to see spiritual matters in terms other than 'liberal' or 'right-wing' at some fundamental level.

I do not claim Jesus taught tolerance - I do not claim Falwell did (and few people would), none of this is the point. The point is tolerance - or more properly intolerance of WHAT?

Or, put another way; "who are the moneychangers in the Temple" today?

Who are the Pharisees?
Who are the hypocrites?
Who are 'selling merchandise in God's house'?

Hint: there is one less of them today than there was yesterday.

[Jubelum]

I don't think it is a question of 'tolerance'. You seem unable to see spiritual matters in terms other than 'liberal' or 'right-wing' at some fundamental level.
sego- there are great and bad Christians from all poltical stripes... the Church resume has nothing to do with political party. I have good friends who are Marx plus religion, and they are Christians I look up to. Seeing spiritual matters as non-political is no problem. It's a given.

I do not claim Jesus taught tolerance - I do not claim Falwell did (and few people would), none of this is the point. The point is tolerance - or more properly intolerance of WHAT?

A personal definition of "sin" from one man... Intolerance based on one singular interpretation of the Bible. An interpretation that led to the starting of univerisities and a sizeable following in the early 80s. Intolerance of those that, through a particular (warped IMHO) view, are worthy of contempt.

The abortion debate seriously empowered people like Falwell, who tacked on the rest of their interpretations to the popular support they gained from the abortion issue.

Who are the Pharisees?
73.27% of mainstream Church leaders, at last tally. Updates soon.

Who are the hypocrites?
Scripturally, everyone who calls themselves a Christian- because they seek and speak of an ideal that none of us will ever meet. It's part of the humility thing. All have fallen short.

Who are 'selling merchandise in God's house'?
I'd go so far as to say that it has gone beyond selling merchandise in God's house. In all too many congregations, the house itself is on the market. It's why the Postmodern movement is better in my opinion than the traditional movement. The Universal church notwithstanding.

Hint: there is one less of them today than there was yesterday.

Somewhere on the north side of San Antonio, Texas, JF has already been replaced.
The mantle has been passed (http://www.jhm.org/). (As it was on CNN yesterday)

[Jubelum]

Actually, if you could illuminate that sentence.. I'd like to hear that. Expound please!

Um.. I said what I said. It was clear enough for you to throw a bullshit flag.
Don't make me call shenanigans!

[BR]

So now people who disagree with you should be branded "Un-American". How Cheney of you.
MacRR shouldn't pull the Un-American card but you have no leg to stand on complaining about it.

[MacRR]

F that- while the whole country was mourning- that douche pot broke off and blamed americans for such and such lifestyle and said god killed them.

How is that american?

Free speech aside, it was certainly not a patriotic and american thing to say.

like I said- it's not like that coward went to times square, held a press conference and said that.

[BR]

If you bitch and moan about a label, you shouldn't use it when it suits your own purposes. Frankly, we ALL need to get out of the habit of calling each other Un-American. It's just intentionally inflammatory granfaloon nonsense. I'm sick and tired of this pointless patriotism pissing match that erupts over every polemical political issue.


One more thing Mac...breathe, relax, chill out.

[MacRR]

pffghtt!

btw- here's my scene- I am laughing with my coworkers- playing foosball and about to go have our weekly soccer game. We also made a nice chunk of money today. AND TO TOP IT! it's sunny and I can ride my bike out on some beautiful california roads later! w00t!

I am loving life- so no need to breathe or chill- I am just speakin meh mind, mate!

anyways- fuck it.

Jerry falwell is a chode- don't be a chode too, BR. I never called anyone here un-american. I called telejerry unamerican- and I stand by that. but since you are sick and tired of somebody writing something on the interweb, perhaps you should breathe, chillax, and realize falwell is a chode not worth you getting sick and tired about.

know what i mean?

[BR]

Falwell is a chode but taking jabs at people's patroitism just perpetuates a really retarded game that needs to end.

[Outsider]

pffghtt!

btw- here's my scene- I am laughing with my coworkers- playing foosball and about to go have our weekly soccer game. We also made a nice chunk of money today. AND TO TOP IT! it's sunny and I can ride my bike out on some beautiful california roads later! w00t!

I am loving life- so no need to breathe or chill- I am just speakin meh mind, mate!


Our foosball table broke but we did get a dandy shuffle board table. Hot damn, it's fun. We call it the gentleman's game.

[MacRR]

People's?

You mean dirt nap jerry. person.

Yea, well- I guess you've been debaitng here too long. I never jabbed at anyone's patriotism here- or anywhere. I do believe it's true when it comes to falwell.

And yes! thanks for calling him a chode. :D



Falwell is a chode but taking jabs at people's patroitism just perpetuates a really retarded game that needs to end.

[MacRR]

you guys broke your foosball table? man- I'd like to play with you guys ;).

We were looking to get another game.. we've been thinking a pool table...

but shuffle board could be intriguing.... it's just so looooong. Hard to find a place for it.

QUOTE=Outsider;1082644]Our foosball table broke but we did get a dandy shuffle board table. Hot damn, it's fun. We call it the gentleman's game.[/QUOTE]

[tonton]

Jubelum, Sego already asked the question, but...

Did you shed as many tears when Saddam died?

[Jubelum]

Jubelum, Sego already asked the question, but...

Did you shed as many tears when Saddam died?

I shed few tears over either, frankly.

[Outsider]

you guys broke your foosball table? man- I'd like to play with you guys ;).

We were looking to get another game.. we've been thinking a pool table...

but shuffle board could be intriguing.... it's just so looooong. Hard to find a place for it.


yeah, we don't mess around.

Shuffle board is long but it doesn't require the space around the table that a pool table would take.

[southside grabowski]

I am amazed at the hate oozing from the compassionate left.

[running with scissors]

I am amazed at the hate oozing from the compassionate left.


what do you expect, the guy was a big turd floating in this toilet bowl we call humanity. we would have all been better off if he had taken the big flush years ago.

[southside grabowski]

The man is dead. I have compassion even for Saddam Hussein.

[@_@ Artman]

I am amazed at the hate oozing from the compassionate left.

Whereas on the right it's just ignorance. I also call bullshit on your compassion for Saddam, really...:rolleyes:

[Frank777]

Whereas on the right it's just ignorance.

Ignorance would still be better than hatred. ;)

[Jubelum]

Whereas on the right it's just ignorance.

Sure. Or it could be an acceptance and recognition of patterns of human behaviour. You decide. ;)

[MacRR]

OMG- why does anyone feel guilty for hating that chode?

Like- how can one possibly feel chastised- like Jube, frank777, southside are morally in the right over that?

Fukn ROFLMAO!

Whatever-

the dude was a douche.

I'd implore anyone not to feel bad if they felt the same. I mean- hmm... feel happy some dickhead hate spewing vain moron is dead and can no longer pollute the human pool, or feel compassion just cause the windbag finally kicked the KFC bucket?

I didn't have to think long about that one.

fuck him. I hope the circle teletubby is goin at him now after high fiving the triangle head one.

Alternately, I feel very sad when the human race loses someone of real value. If you live your life making a difference for everyone for THE BETTER- then you earned your respect.

Like Rosa Parks for instance...

There is just as long a list of people I mourn because they were good people. they earned their respect, and they left a legacy that left no doubts about their character. Everyone is good and bad- but if you made sure the scale was tipped for the better- than I have to give respect.

Telejerry had an opportunity due to his position to make a good difference. Instead he chose utter ignorance as his path and sucked many people down with him and made a hard life for a lot of other people all that much harder.

[@_@ Artman]

I hope Bo Diddly gets better. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/sns-ap-bo-diddley-hospitalized,0,1912553.story) There's compassion for you.

http://www.staller.sunysb.edu/0607/images/bo-diddley.jpg

Bo Diddley - Hey Bo Diddly (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxNUQ8HGxoE)

[tonton]

I shed few tears over either, frankly.

But when you heard your peers cheering on his death and saying he deserved it, did you defend his right to respect in death, as you did to this equally hell-spawned fucktard we're discussing in this thread?

[tonton]

Ignorance would still be better than hatred. ;)

No. Because ignorance cannot focus on fixing what is wrong. Ignorance is a form of hatred that is sometimes even worse than overt hatred, because it neglects to address the problem.

Selective ignorance is a special kind of evil, for which there is a special kind of hell.

There is a reason why the educated class are overwhelmingly liberal.

[tonton]

Now we just have to wait for James Dobson to join him so they can be tied up and forced to watch the "homosexual" antics of Tinky Winky, Sponge Bob and Patrick in their own Room 101.

[Frank777]

No. Because ignorance cannot focus on fixing what is wrong. Ignorance is a form of hatred that is sometimes even worse than overt hatred, because it neglects to address the problem.

Selective ignorance is a special kind of evil, for which there is a special kind of hell.

I sense much anger in you. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to Suffering.


There is a reason why the educated class are overwhelmingly liberal.

You have your facts mixed up.

In our society, educated people tend to be wealthier, and wealthier people tend to be overwhelmingly liberal.

Wealthier folks also tend to get comfortable with their place in life and learn to value the material and temporal things over the spiritual and eternal.

Maybe that's why Jesus said it was so hard for the rich to get into heaven.

[segovius]

Maybe that's why Jesus said it was so hard for the rich to get into heaven.

Actually he didn't say it was 'hard', he said it was impossible -ie; 'easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle'.

Where's your literalism when you need it?

So, let's talk about the 'rich'; Falwell, Bakker, Robertson etc....Megachurches for instance.

You know, all those blood-suckers who time their 'appeals' to the arrival of social security checks. All those sick leeches who say that you can pray to God for money and he'll give it but they themselves bleed the finances of poor communities....

You know the ones...you call them 'saved'.

And we can talk about ignorance and hate too...Falwell specializedi in both - and like a virus he loved to spread it to others... I wonder if we can quantify how many millions of lives he and his sick ilk have actuall ruined?

So hate? Well...you are the one who has been commanded to 'love your enemies 'not 'the left'.

Can you do it? Any more than Falwell could?

And we can continue to talk about Saddam again too.....his people hated him...care to condemn them?

[southside grabowski]

I condemned noone Sego. I simply made an observation.

[segovius]

I condemned noone Sego. I simply made an observation.

Yes Southside, that's why I was talking to Frank....are you working him with your foot?

[MacRR]

hahaha.. seg- that's funny shit man.

i woudla said hand, but foot was more interesting.

:D

[Frank777]

Actually he didn't say it was 'hard', he said it was impossible -ie; 'easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle'.

Where's your literalism when you need it?

Once again, you read well but apparently lack understanding. In the very next two verses, Jesus follows up this statement saying that this seems impossible to man, but is possible with God.

Therefore, Jesus' whole point here is that it is hard for the rich to enter heaven, not impossible.

[Outsider]

Hmm, I wonder what it says of most conservatives, who also identify themselves as fervent Christians, who aspire to be rich. Not only rich, but super rich, and at the cost of making the poor poorer. I guess it means they (a.) like a challenge, and (b.) by making the poor poorer, they are ensuring they --the poor-- get into the kingdom of heaven.

[Jubelum]

super rich, and at the cost of making the poor poorer. I guess it means they (a.) like a challenge, and (b.) by making the poor poorer, they are ensuring they --the poor-- get into the kingdom of heaven.

Masterful. Comrade!

This is the problem with the thinking on the left. That every time someone gets "rich" that someone else had to be made poor. It's called a growing, expanding economy. There is not a static supply of money or product in the world, Outsider. This is just more tired class warfare rhetoric. I now reserve my right to slam any group just for being _______, without your rebuke.

I sure does explain why your side seems to think that if you just "reverse the pumps" that the poor can be made not poor because the rich are taxed shitless. It does not work that way, no matter how badly you want it to. Punishing achievers only means that there will be less inventive to achieve. Meanwhile, the US poverty rate has been static since 1964. It's not working.

[Frank777]

Hmm, I wonder what it says of most conservatives, who also identify themselves as fervent Christians, who aspire to be rich. Not only rich, but super rich, and at the cost of making the poor poorer. I guess it means they (a.) like a challenge, and (b.) by making the poor poorer, they are ensuring they --the poor-- get into the kingdom of heaven.

I think Christians get unfairly tagged with this issue. It's not their Christianity that drives this, it's the whole culture we live in.

North American culture, driven in large part by Hollywood excesses, went down the materialist road a long time ago. Many good Christians and non-Christians have lost their way here, especially with the drive-by tele-evangelists proclaiming daily on TV how "God wants you rich" and that Christianity is somehow compatible with our society's materialist focus.

It should be noted that while Falwell did ask for donations on air, he's not one of these "health and wealth" guys.

Falwell took a 35 member congregation and built it into the sprawling Thomas Road church, a whole University, and other ventures such as the GodParent home for unwed mothers. In his spare time, he rebuilt a conservative political coalition, started a conservative opinion journal and became an unlikely national media commentator on political issues.

He was wrong on many issues, and can be legitimately criticized for many things. But he was unquestionably a driven personality who didn't spend a lot of time lazing around in a mansion, flying to exotic destinations or sitting by a swimming pool enjoying the good life. He died at his desk, which I think is a fitting testament to his life and ministry.

When people like Shaun mutter things like "good riddance" it does ring a bit shallow.
Probably because Shaun could likely be given 1000 years on this planet and not accomplish as much as Falwell did.

[segovius]

Probably because Shaun could likely be given 1000 years on this planet and not accomplish as much as Falwell did.

In terms of fvcking up people's heads, spreading hate and dissension and laying waste to people's lives I would give Shaun a 10,000 year start and he wouldn't achieve anywhere near as much.

Totally agree.

[Frank777]

In terms of fvcking up people's heads, spreading hate and dissension and laying waste to people's lives I would give Shaun a 10,000 year start and he wouldn't achieve anywhere near as much.

Totally agree.

More one-dimensional thinking from a one-dimensional person. The old "I don't agree with him so he's evil" diatribe. You're more like Bush than you think.

By the way, I've never understood the idea of cursing half way.

If you're going to swear, then swear. These boards don't block it out. Of course, if you think that using profanity just in your mind is somehow morally better than saying it out loud, then you understand even less of Jesus' teachings than even I thought.

[@_@ Artman]

Jerry Falwell -- Say Hello to Ronald Reagan! (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20753)

"No man in the last century better illustrated Jesus' warning that "All men will hate you because of me" than the Rev. Jerry Falwell, who left this world on Tuesday. Separately, no man better illustrates my warning that it doesn't pay to be nice to liberals.

Falwell was a perfected Christian. He exuded Christian love for all men, hating sin while loving sinners. This is as opposed to liberals, who just love sinners. Like Christ ministering to prostitutes, Falwell regularly left the safe confines of his church to show up in such benighted venues as CNN...."

http://faccine.forumfree.net/puking.gif

[MacRR]

I agree with your thoughts on swearing.

FUck is just a word- and hell, who doesn't like fucking?

anyways-

onto your lil tidbit about 1 dimensional thinking... etc and onto evil and onto bush....

What part of one dimensional comes out of disagreeing with this man's philosophies?

A nicely compiled list....
-----------------------------
"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."
"The abortionists have got to bear some burden for [the attacks of Sept. 11] because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.'"
"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."
"Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions."
"I listen to feminists and all these radical gals -- most of them are failures. They've blown it. Some of them have been married, but they married some Casper Milquetoast who asked permission to go to the bathroom. These women just need a man in the house. That's all they need. Most of the feminists need a man to tell them what time of day it is and to lead them home. And they blew it and they're mad at all men. Feminists hate men. They're sexist. They hate men -- that's their problem."
"When you have a godly husband, a godly wife, children who respect their parents and who are loved by their parents, who provide for those children their physical and spiritual and material needs, lovingly, you have the ideal unit."
"The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews."
"I am saying pornography hurts anyone who reads it -- garbage in, garbage out."
"I am such a strong admirer and supporter of George W. Bush that if he suggested eliminating the income tax or doubling it, I would vote yes on first blush."
"I believe that global warming is a myth. And so, therefore, I have no conscience problems at all and I'm going to buy a Suburban next time."
"It is God's planet -- and he's taking care of it. And I don't believe that anything we do will raise or lower the temperature one point."
"I truly cannot imagine men with men, women with women, doing what they were not physically created to do, without abnormal stress and misbehavior."
"It appears that America's anti-Biblical feminist movement is at last dying, thank God, and is possibly being replaced by a Christ-centered men's movement which may become the foundation for a desperately needed national spiritual awakening."
"There's been a concerted effort to steal Christmas."
"I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!"
"The First Amendment is not without limits."
"Someone must not be afraid to say, 'moral perversion is wrong.' If we do not act now, homosexuals will 'own' America! If you and I do not speak up now, this homosexual steamroller will literally crush all decent men, women, and children who get in its way ... and our nation will pay a terrible price!"
"If he's going to be the counterfeit of Christ, [the Antichrist] has to be Jewish. The only thing we know is he must be male and Jewish."
"The argument that making contraceptives available to young people would prevent teen pregnancies is ridiculous. That's like offering a cookbook as a cure to people who are trying to lose weight."
"The whole global warming thing is created to destroy America's free enterprise system and our economic stability."
"You'll be riding along in an automobile. You'll be the driver perhaps. You're a Christian. There'll be several people in the automobile with you, maybe someone who is not a Christian. When the trumpet sounds you and the other born-again believers in that automobile will be instantly caught away -- you will disappear, leaving behind only your clothes and physical things that cannot inherit eternal life. That unsaved person or persons in the automobile will suddenly be startled to find the car suddenly somewhere crashes. ... Other cars on the highway driven by believers will suddenly be out of control and stark pandemonium will occur on ... every highway in the world where Christians are caught away from the drivers wheel." (from Falwell's pamphlet "Nuclear War and the Second Coming of Christ")
"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve."
"You know when I see somebody burning the flag, I'm a Baptist preacher I'm not a Mennonite, I feel it's my obligation to whip him. In the name of the Lord, of course. I feel it's my obligation to whip him, and if I can't do it then I look up some of my athletes to help me. But, as long as at 72 I can handle most of the jobs I do it myself, and I don't think it's un-spiritual. When I, when I, when I hear somebody talking about our military and ridiculing and saying terrible things about our President, I'm thinking you know just a little bit of that and I believe the Lord would forgive me if I popped him."
"The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etcetera."
"The National Organization for Women (NOW) is the National Order of Witches."
"God doesn't listen to Jews."
"Tinky Winky is gay."
--------------

I think we know who was one dimensional.

Jerry "getting buttfucked by twinky" Falwell



More one-dimensional thinking from a one-dimensional person. The old "I don't agree with him so he's evil" diatribe. You're more like Bush than you think.

By the way, I've never understood the idea of cursing half way.

If you're going to swear, then swear. These boards don't block it out. Of course, if you think that using profanity just in your mind is somehow morally better than saying it out loud, then you understand even less of Jesus' teachings than even I thought.

[thuh Freak]

In our society, educated people tend to be wealthier, and wealthier people tend to be overwhelmingly liberal.

Is that true down here, or is that just a canadian thing? When i think of the rich, I think of corporate types, or wall street junkies. Captains of enterprise, like the billionaires at the head of XOM or whatever. Sure, there are liberal sectors of richness, like movies tv and whatever, but i think its overwhelming in the other direction. there is a correlation between educated people and liberal thinking; institutions of higher learning veer left, and higher education cost is on the magnitude of a few houses in the us.

[dmz]

King James was what these days could be called the 'executive director" of the project. From your own wiki entry he wet the follownng rules and guidelines:
...

I read a book earlier this year, God's Secretaries, on that project. James was not much more involved than a cursory reading here and there, and the original, politically charged instructions. There were something like 30-40 different translators assigned to the text, who went off, unattended to work on their portion. There were meetings at different points where anyone of the other translators could challenge any other translation they objected to.

The KJV had more than a few errors (they didn't understand the Greek as well as they could have, and simple typos from the various publishers) which prompted a major going over in the late 19th century.

But then if there is any chance of a "King James conspiracy," Why not just pick up a widely used, and older, translation like the Geneva?

[trailmaster308]

Lord Jerry Falwell's hariolations are entirely disgusting -- so much so, that if there are any children or sensitive people reading this letter, I suggest that they stop now and not read what I am about to describe. Before I get moving here, let me point out that Lord Falwell is known for walking into crowded rooms and telling everyone there that the ideas of "freedom" and "fetishism" are Siamese twins. Try, if you can, to concoct a statement better calculated to show how nerdy Lord Falwell is. You can't do it. Not only that, but he thinks that egotism is the key to world peace. Of course, thinking so doesn't make it so. A central point of his belief systems is the notion that 75 million years ago, a galactic tyrant named Xenu solved the overpopulation problem of his 76-planet federation by transporting the excess people to Earth, chaining them to volcanoes, and dropping H-bombs on them. Perhaps Lord Falwell should take some new data into account and revisit that notion. I think he'd find that what I wrote just a moment ago is not the paranoid rambling of an arrogant wacko. It's a fact. What that means, simply put, is that to get even the simplest message into the consciousness of shabby, uppity monomaniacs, it has to be repeated at least 50 times. Now, I don't want to insult your intelligence by telling you the following 50 times, but he spouts a lot of numbers whenever he wants to make a point. He then subjectively interprets those numbers to support his newsgroup postings while ignoring the fact that the last time I told his apple-polishers that I want to establish clear, justifiable definitions of elitism and recidivism so that you can defend a decision to take action when his operatives replace our natural soul with an artificial one, they declared in response, "But skin color means more than skill and gender is more impressive than genius." Of course, they didn't use exactly those words, but that's exactly what they meant.

One does not have to challenge all I stand for in order to call for proper disciplinary action against Lord Falwell and his sycophants. It is a stolid person who believes otherwise. Did you know that some hostile fence-sitters want to help him make our country spiritually blind? Others just want to ride the credentialism bandwagon. In either case, if you intend to challenge someone's assertions, you need to present a counterargument. Lord Falwell provides none. The facts are in: Lord Jerry Falwell has values that are antagonistic to a traditional, moral society.

[dmz]

Lord Jerry Falwell's hariolations are entirely disgusting -- so much so, that if there are any children or sensitive people reading this letter, I suggest that they stop now and not read what I am about to describe. Before I get moving here, let me point out that Lord Falwell is known for walking into crowded rooms and telling everyone there that the ideas of "freedom" and "fetishism" are Siamese twins. Try, if you can, to concoct a statement better calculated to show how nerdy Lord Falwell is. You can't do it. Not only that, but he thinks that egotism is the key to world peace. Of course, thinking so doesn't make it so. A central point of his belief systems is the notion that 75 million years ago, a galactic tyrant named Xenu...

Wait a minute! It may have been my second beer, but that was kinda weird.

[shetline]

"Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them." - Jerry Falwell - May 17, 1997
WTF?

If I may take off tangentially from all of the sniping going on in this thread...

What the f*ck did Falwell mean by this? That it's okay for boys to have sex with prostitutes? That it's okay to marry a prostitute who has sex with boys?

This isn't quite up there on the creepy weirdness scale as James "Focus on the Family" Dobson's ranting about how father's should take showers with their sons so their boys get to see them naked and learn about "manhood" or something like that, but not exactly the kind of "family values" I'd be expecting either.

[trailmaster308]

Wait a minute! It may have been my second beer, but that was kinda weird.

hmm that is kinda freaky...i never read those things; maybe its not so random after all :err:

[franksargent]

Lord Jerry Falwell's hariolations are entirely disgusting -- so much so, that if there are any children or sensitive people reading this letter, I suggest that they stop now and not read what I am about to describe. Before I get moving here, let me point out that Lord Falwell is known for walking into crowded rooms and telling everyone there that the ideas of "freedom" and "fetishism" are Siamese twins. Try, if you can, to concoct a statement better calculated to show how nerdy Lord Falwell is. You can't do it. Not only that, but he thinks that egotism is the key to world peace. Of course, thinking so doesn't make it so. A central point of his belief systems is the notion that 75 million years ago, a galactic tyrant named Xenu solved the overpopulation problem of his 76-planet federation by transporting the excess people to Earth, chaining them to volcanoes, and dropping H-bombs on them. Perhaps Lord Falwell should take some new data into account and revisit that notion. I think he'd find that what I wrote just a moment ago is not the paranoid rambling of an arrogant wacko. It's a fact. What that means, simply put, is that to get even the simplest message into the consciousness of shabby, uppity monomaniacs, it has to be repeated at least 50 times. Now, I don't want to insult your intelligence by telling you the following 50 times, but he spouts a lot of numbers whenever he wants to make a point. He then subjectively interprets those numbers to support his newsgroup postings while ignoring the fact that the last time I told his apple-polishers that I want to establish clear, justifiable definitions of elitism and recidivism so that you can defend a decision to take action when his operatives replace our natural soul with an artificial one, they declared in response, "But skin color means more than skill and gender is more impressive than genius." Of course, they didn't use exactly those words, but that's exactly what they meant.

One does not have to challenge all I stand for in order to call for proper disciplinary action against Lord Falwell and his sycophants. It is a stolid person who believes otherwise. Did you know that some hostile fence-sitters want to help him make our country spiritually blind? Others just want to ride the credentialism bandwagon. In either case, if you intend to challenge someone's assertions, you need to present a counterargument. Lord Falwell provides none. The facts are in: Lord Jerry Falwell has values that are antagonistic to a traditional, moral society.

L. Ron Hubbard passed on January 24, 1986. :wow:
Jerry Falwell passed on May 15, 2007. :rolleyes:

Did you just step out of your WABAC? :D

[dmz]

WTF?

If I may take off tangentially from all of the sniping going on in this thread...

What the f*ck did Falwell mean by this? That it's okay for boys to have sex with prostitutes? That it's okay to marry a prostitute who has sex with boys?
I think it means that if you only report the ambiguous/stupid/badly-put statements that someone makes, you can paint them any way you want.

[Frank777]

WTF?

If I may take off tangentially from all of the sniping going on in this thread...

What the f*ck did Falwell mean by this? That it's okay for boys to have sex with prostitutes? That it's okay to marry a prostitute who has sex with boys?

It's obviously meant to be a whimsical line from a speech stressing that sex outside of marriage is wrong.
You guys are really stretching in your attempt to defame the dead.

[Jubelum]

You guys are really stretching in your attempt to defame the dead.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t261/jubelum_ammo/lester.jpg

[franksargent]

http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/FarewellFalwell/images2/benson.gif

http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/FarewellFalwell/images/lane.gif

http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/FarewellFalwell/images2/cohen.jpg

http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/FarewellFalwell/images2/deadder.jpg

http://cagle.msnbc.com/news/FarewellFalwell/images/bors.jpg

[trailmaster308]

L. Ron Hubbard passed on January 24, 1986. :wow:
Jerry Falwell passed on May 15, 2007. :rolleyes:

Did you just step out of your WABAC? :D

Not sure what you mean?

I just pasted the name "Lord Jerry Falwell" into a complaint generator.

The hands of god must have guided it to write what it did. ;)

[iPoster]

http://i1.tinypic.com/4kod2ye.gif

[segovius]

Looks like Falwell has links to the infamous Florida Flying School (http://www.madcowprod.com/05182007.html) where Atta and co allegedly learned to be among the greatest and most skillful pilots ever to take wing.

Apparently Falwell hit the owner of the flight school - his close friend Hilliard -for a $1M loan. And then didn't pay it back.

But there's more:

The Rev. Falwell’s second curious association at the Venice Airport involves a dummy front company working at terror flight school Huffman Aviation in Venice Florida which moved, amid great controversy, to the Baptist minister’s hometown of Lynchburg VA., where the firm was mysteriously awarded a five-year contract to run a large regional maintenance facility at the airport, beating out a respected and successful local firm with 40 employees and a multi-million dollar balance sheet.

Britannia Aviation from Venice Florida, in contrast, had two employees, no corporate history, did not possess the necessary FAA license to perform the aircraft maintenance services for which it had been contracted, and was worth less than $750.

"There was some sentiment that there might be something suspicious about Britannia Aviation," stated a business reporter at the Lynchburg News-Advance. "There was a clear feeling that nobody knew who these guys were, or where they were coming from."

The uneasiness wasn’t helped by a revelation from Britannia's chief executive Paul Martens during a Lynchburg City Council meeting. Attempting to reassure the city that his firm was substantial, Martens said his company had for some time been successfully providing aviation maintenance services for a Caribbean air carrier called Caribe Air.

Caribe Air is a notorious CIA proprietary air carrier with a particularly checkered past, including 'blemishes' like being accused by government prosecutors of using as many as 20 planes to ship drugs worth billions of dollars into the U.S., as well as having its aircraft seized by federal officials at the infamous Mena Arkansas airport.

Moreover it was run by a German national and longtime CIA asset named Dietrich Reinhardt, who also was partners at the Charlotte County Florida Airport, frequented by Mohamed Atta and friends, with a man suspected of stealing as many as 23 helicopters from Charlotte County Sheriff’s Dept.

It's not so surprising really. Someone needs to start digging here....