RFID chips in people

[Fellowship]

I can't stand the idea of putting RFID chips in people. In the following link is contained a story about a trial of putting RFID chips in older Americans in Florida who are alzheimer's patients.

http://www.newstarget.com/022033.html

"The Delray Beach, Fla.-based company VeriChip Corp. has announced plans to implant 200 Alzheimer's patients in Palm Beach County with radio-frequency identification chips as part of a pilot study to test the new technology.

The VeriMed microchip is approximately the size of a grain of rice and contains a 16-digit patient identification number, which is available to anyone who scans the device with the right technology. This number can then be entered into a database to retrieve a patient's medical information. The FDA has approved the chip for human implantation.

According to VeriChip's CEO Scott Silverman, the VeriMed chip will eventually provide peace of mind to the families of Alzheimer's patients by providing a safety net in case a patient should get lost.

If the concern is "in case a pattient should get lost" why can't a simple fingerprint database be used for alzheimer's patients in which the police can ID the lost persons?

These days there are mobile fingerprint scanners which can be part of a network by which the data can be compared against and compiled from a database.

Fellowship

[talksense101]

But a fingerprint would mean we would have to actually "touch" the old people after "talking" to them. Human contact is sooooo out-of-fashion... Besides, it is more fun to buy a RF ID reader and break into the medical database so we can run a scam of sorts...

/sarcasm off

[@_@ Artman]

I'm enraged. My Aunt and Uncle both have Alzheimer's and if they were chosen for this "pilot study" I would have bashed the doctor with Madonna's Purple Penetrator strap-on dildo.

People with this unfortunately have the memory of a goldfish, so will probably have no idea what you have done to them. They are prone to wander off, I know, but my Aunt and Uncle are in a senior living facility's hospital section where they are cared and observed 24-7. I guess it's just that Florida is so congested with tourists, trailer-trash and old people...:grumble:

It's like something out of a dystopian nightmare. Or... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSDRNc-SLos) :mad:

[segovius]

Here in Barcelona there are several nightclubs where entry is by RFID. Actually the waiting list to be injected is quite long.

It's kind of a 'status symbol' :rolleyes:

They not only get into the VIP area by being scanned but it is linked to their back accounts - they just present their arm for a scan at the bar when ordering and it debits your account with the tab price.

They say it's cool not to have to take cash around....

For me, if some morons want to sign up for it that's fine...if it starts becoming commonplace and/or compulsory for any sector then that's when I'll start reaching for the revolver....

That's how it's being sold to the sheep; status symbol, no need for cash, a crimestopper, locate Auntie Ethel when she goes walkabout.....but that's not how it will be 10 or 20 years down the line.

Wedges and thin ends. Icebergs and tips. Frogs and boiling water. Sheep and mInt sauce.

[@_@ Artman]

AP Report On RFID Chips And Cancer Raises Concerns (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/82032.php)

The articles cited by AP that were reviewed by the cancer experts were studies on lab mice and rats that sometimes developed sarcomas, or malignant tumours, after being implanted with microchips. The sarcomas sometimes encased the implants, said the AP report.

The articles were published in toxicology and veterinary journals between 1996 and 2006 and included:

* A study conducted in 1996 by (now retired) toxicologic pathologist Keith Johnson at the Dow Chemical Co. in Midland, Michigan. Johnson said in a phone interview with AP "the transponders were the cause of the tumors".

* A study conducted in Germany in 1997 that found 1 per cent of over 4,000 RFID chipped mice had cancer which the authors concluded were "clearly due to the implanted microchips".

* A study conducted in Ridgefield, Connecticut, in 1998, on 177 mice that suggested the incidence of cancer was raised by just over 10 per cent.

* A study conducted in France in 2006 where tumours were detected in 4.1 per cent of mice with microchip implants. The scientists were not looking for cancer induced by microchips when they started the study. They were testing chemicals but they ruled them out as the cause of the tumours.

There were several shortcomings to the studies reviewed by the cancer experts. For instance not one of them had a control group that had not been implanted with RFID chips to compare the rate of tumour development in non-chipped with chipped animals. And the other obvious shortcoming is that animal studies do not necessarily translate to humans.

However, according to AP, the reactions of the scientists who came from "pre-eminent cancer institutions" when they reviewed the studies were revealing.

[Fellowship]

Here in Barcelona there are several nightclubs where entry is by RFID. Actually the waiting list to be injected is quite long.

It's kind of a 'status symbol' :rolleyes:

They not only get into the VIP area by being scanned but it is linked to their back accounts - they just present their arm for a scan at the bar when ordering and it debits your account with the tab price.

They say it's cool not to have to take cash around....

For me, if some morons want to sign up for it that's fine...if it starts becoming commonplace and/or compulsory for any sector then that's when I'll start reaching for the revolver....

That's how it's being sold to the sheep; status symbol, no need for cash, a crimestopper, locate Auntie Ethel when she goes walkabout.....but that's not how it will be 10 or 20 years down the line.

Wedges and thin ends. Icebergs and tips. Frogs and boiling water. Sheep and mInt sauce.

Speaking of "status symbol" In Dallas a similar observation is made regarding automated payment transponder toll road use. You see the top end of cars with yuppies no doubt driving them in the "rich mans" toll lanes while the rest of us drive our normal cars on other roads. It is "status" and cool to show off in the toll roads in Dallas. And everyone gets to see your transponder on your windshield to boot.

I find it amazing how we are such sheep manipulated so easily. In the name of "fill in the blank" War on terror, security, status, etc.

Fellows

[Fellowship]

Or...[/URL] :mad:

"Why come you don't have a tattoo?"

Why do I have the feeling this movie is on to something?

Fellows

[southside grabowski]

Speaking of "status symbol" In Dallas a similar observation is made regarding automated payment transponder toll road use. You see the top end of cars with yuppies no doubt driving them in the "rich mans" toll lanes while the rest of us drive our normal cars on other roads. It is "status" and cool to show off in the toll roads in Dallas. And everyone gets to see your transponder on your windshield to boot.

I find it amazing how we are such sheep manipulated so easily. In the name of "fill in the blank" War on terror, security, status, etc.

Fellows

I'm glad I am only in Texas on assignment and am not really one of you people:lol:

[@_@ Artman]

"Why come you don't have a tattoo?"

Why do I have the feeling this movie is on to something?

Fellows

No one in Hollywood wanted to touch it. It has become a huge cult hit. Created by Mike Judge (Beevus & Butthead, King of the Hill, etc.) My girlfriend wants me to rent it. I heard it's a little stretched as far as a premise, but curiosity is killing the cat. :smokey:

Oh, and speaking of Florida, look at this...Sarasota, Florida proposes 6 foot distance between strippers and their customers. And no more beer or alcohol served neither.

Strict regulations may be coming to local strips clubs in Sarasota county. That's if a new proposed ordinance passes, however. County Commissioner John Thaxton says "ordinances need to be revisited to follow Supreme Court rulings from time to time."

County Attorney Stephen DeMarsh drafted the changes and pesented them during the commission meeting Wednesday night.

One proposed change includes a minimum distance of six feet between dancers and customers.

Carl Burke manages the Cheetah Lounge and is concerned this may drive a way his business. Burke says "I understand they want to keep up moral standards but where will it stop?"

Alcohol is also an issue. In the ordinance county commissioners will also have to decided on whether or not to allow beer and liquor in an establishment that has semi-nudity.

Commissioner Thaxton wants the term "semi-nudity" to be looked at closer. He's concerned it may include restaurants like Hooters or Wing House and that would become a problem.

Two public meetings are planned to hear public reaction to the proposed changes.

The first one is set for October 10th.

I'm not a tittie bar man myself but if this keeps going on...Denmark, here I come...:smokey: cough

[southside grabowski]

Here in Barcelona there are several nightclubs where entry is by RFID. Actually the waiting list to be injected is quite long.

It's kind of a 'status symbol' :rolleyes:

They not only get into the VIP area by being scanned but it is linked to their back accounts - they just present their arm for a scan at the bar when ordering and it debits your account with the tab price.

They say it's cool not to have to take cash around....

For me, if some morons want to sign up for it that's fine...if it starts becoming commonplace and/or compulsory for any sector then that's when I'll start reaching for the revolver....

That's how it's being sold to the sheep; status symbol, no need for cash, a crimestopper, locate Auntie Ethel when she goes walkabout.....but that's not how it will be 10 or 20 years down the line.

Wedges and thin ends. Icebergs and tips. Frogs and boiling water. Sheep and mInt sauce.



Here I would worry about someone cutting my arm off and carrying it into the bar like a credit card. Sad thing there is a good chance no one would question.

[segovius]

Here I would worry about someone cutting my arm off and carrying it into the bar like a credit card. Sad thing there is a good chance no one would question.

No, in Glasgow on a Friday night it is a pretty common occurrence even without the RFID implants...

[southside grabowski]

No, in Glasgow on a Friday night it is a pretty common occurrence even without the RFID implants...

:wow::wow::wow:

[@_@ Artman]

No, in Glasgow on a Friday night it is a pretty common occurrence even without the RFID implants...

THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!

http://www.highlanders.co.nz/images/highlander_resam.jpg

[Fellowship]

Ohh you just gotta love this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhvOja6QfkA&NR=1

Fellows

[@_@ Artman]

Ohh you just gotta love this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhvOja6QfkA&NR=1

Fellows

"Sure, Not" :lol:

[sammi jo]

Schemes such as this are often disguised by making them appear to have some "societal benefit" or "charitable" aspect, to win public support (not forgetting that there is endless $$ to be made from our current obession with security and surveillance). Perhaps its part of the trend towards more control of society, by those who are employed, in theory, to serve us. No matter how hard we fight against authoritarianism, and how we all pretend to dislike it, it always seems to wins out in the end. There's no conspiracy required here, our flawed human nature allows the dirty work to be done effortlessly. Power is the game; just look how hard people have to fight to acquire, or re-establish liberties, compared to how easy it is for governments to take them away. The dramatic accereleration of this trend during the last 6 years should be enough evidence for anyone.

[Fellowship]

Schemes such as this are often disguised by making them appear to have some "societal benefit" or "charitable" aspect, to win public support (not forgetting that there is endless $$ to be made from our current obession with security and surveillance). Perhaps its part of the trend towards more control of society, by those who are employed, in theory, to serve us. No matter how hard we fight against authoritarianism, and how we all pretend to dislike it, it always seems to wins out in the end. There's no conspiracy required here, our flawed human nature allows the dirty work to be done effortlessly. Power is the game; just look how hard people have to fight to acquire, or re-establish liberties, compared to how easy it is for governments to take them away. The last 6 years should be enough evidence for anyone.


Speaking of our "flawed human nature"

Check out this evolution process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAYnc_-ddlw&NR=1

Fellows

[sammi jo]

Ohh you just gotta love this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhvOja6QfkA&NR=1

Fellows

Never a truer word was "spoken" in jest... :lol:

On a parallel, but related theme... have you seen Terry Gilliam's "Brazil"? Wonderful movie.. and so relevant.

[Fellowship]

Never a truer word was "spoken" in jest... :lol:

On a parallel, but related theme... have you seen Terry Gilliam's "Brazil"? Wonderful movie.. and so relevant.

I have not seen it. Should I put it on my list?

Fellows

[@_@ Artman]

Schemes such as this are often disguised by making them appear to have some "societal benefit" or "charitable" aspect, to win public support (not forgetting that there is endless $$ to be made from our current obession with security and surveillance). Perhaps its part of the trend towards more control of society, by those who are employed, in theory, to serve us. No matter how hard we fight against authoritarianism, and how we all pretend to dislike it, it always seems to wins out in the end. There's no conspiracy required here, our flawed human nature allows the dirty work to be done effortlessly. Power is the game; just look how hard people have to fight to acquire, or re-establish liberties, compared to how easy it is for governments to take them away. The dramatic accereleration of this trend during the last 6 years should be enough evidence for anyone.

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00012SYLO.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

:wow: :smokey:

[Jubelum]

Madonna's Purple Penetrator strap-on dildo.

:wow: (Sure to be on display someday in the Smithsonian, next to P Hilton's orange jumpsuit...)



I find it amazing how we are such sheep manipulated so easily. In the name of "fill in the blank" War on terror, security, status, etc.


Just like the con job with OnStar... selling slavery as a luxury item. "You see, we put this little tracking chip here in your car for $1200, and you'll beg us to take your money to know where you are at all times... " More of that "unintended consequences" thing. Just wait until the insurance companies start using the black box data to disallow claims, and (like the Brits) the OnStar-type system is used as a nationwide toll road ticker. The UK had a pilot program with that technology a few years back, charging tolls based on whose roads you drove on. Orwell wasn't even this prescient. :\

“This is how Liberty dies—with thunderous applause.”

I'm glad I am only in Texas on assignment and am not really one of you people:lol:

"You People" ?

Oh, yeah... well SCREW YOU BUDDY. Get your non-native ass outta here, and take a few Californians and Minnesotans with ya! :grumble:;)

[tonton]

Touchy about Texas, are we? Even among your own sheeple... :lol:

Must be that great Edumacational System (http://skirsch.com/politics/election2000/ad.htm) you got there!

On to RFID...

What a great idea for security! Imagine how easy it would be to track criminals. And if you're not a criminal, you don't have anything to worry about!

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security"
- Benjamin Franklin (paraphrased)

[segovius]

Actually, RFID is just one spoke of a massive agenda and the plans for complete total surveillance are pretty far down the road. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/6995061.stm)

The US and UK governments are developing increasingly sophisticated gadgets to keep individuals under their surveillance. When it comes to technology, the US is determined to stay ahead of the game.

At Maryland University just outside Washington DC, Professor Challapa and his team are inventing the next generation of citizen surveillance.

They pushed back furniture in the conference room for me to walk back and forth and set up cameras to feed my individual data back to their laptops.

Gait DNA, for example, is creating an individual code for the way I walk. Their goal is to invent a system whereby a facial image can be matched to your gait, your height, your weight and other elements, so a computer will be able to identify instantly who you are.

"As you walk through a crowd, we'll be able to track you," said Professor Challapa. "These are all things that don't need the cooperation of the individual."

"And this idea about a total surveillance society," I asked. "Is that science fiction?"

"No, that's not science fiction. We're developing an unmanned airplane - a UAV - which may be able to stay up five years with cameras on it, constantly being cued to look here and there. This is done today to a limited amount in Baghdad. But it's the way to go."

..................

So far there is no gadget that can actually see inside our houses, but even that's about to change.

Ian Kitajima flew to Washington from his laboratories in Hawaii to show me sense-through-the-wall technology.

"Each individual has a characteristic profile," explained Ian, holding a green rectangular box that looked like a TV remote control.

Using radio waves, you point it a wall and it tells you if anyone is on the other side. His company, Oceanit, is due to test it with the Hawaiian National Guard in Iraq next year, and it turns out that the human body gives off such sensitive radio signals, that it can even pick up breathing and heart rates.

I think the most disturbing comment in the whole article is the following: "Opinion polls, both in the US and Britain, say that about 75% of us want more, not less, surveillance ."

Brain-dead morons :no:

[sammi jo]

The UK is definitely becoming "World Surveillance Central". Even peoples' trashcans (http://www.neatorama.com/2006/08/30/bin-brother-is-watching-you/) are being wired with monitoring devices so refuse disposal habits can be tracked by the authorities. These devices are being fitted without the consent (or even knowledge) of householders...

I don't see anything particularly sinister in this instance of surveillance/monitoring... (its only trash we're talking about here, not actual people).... but some 500,000 of these devices, together with all the tallying hardware and software, scanners etc etc. have been sold to date. Three of the element of the drive towards the surveillance society are control, paranoia and profitering... and someone is making a killing in this instance, on the taxpayer.

[Splinemodel]

RFID for toll roads is a pretty good feature. I find it hard to bash, since it has an undeniable effect on reducing traffic, which means more efficient usage of time, and, not to mention, less pollution. I don't really see the invasion of privacy here.

RFID for criminals is already used in the form of the ankle bracelet.

RFID implants are not mandatory. Even if they were, if you have the desire to do so they're not that hard to block, disable and/or remove, so it would be extremely difficult to issue them forcibly. Plus, it seems like there are studies that show they cause a cancer risk, which undoubtedly will reduce demand.

RFID is better than fingerprint scanning because finger print scanning is (a) failure prone (b) time consuming, (c) cannot be conducted at a several-meter distance, and (d) does not require co-operation. For alzheimers patents, RFID seems like it would work well, whereas fingerprint scanning would be difficult.

About ten years ago Scott McNeely said in response to concerns about privacy, "face it, its already gone." In this world, there are two types of people: those that realize this and those that don't. If you're in the second group, there's still cash/gold, Wyoming, and burying firearms. If you're in the first group, RFID is enabling, since it reduces the potential for identity theft and provides much better tracking capabilities for the user.

I can expect that people will argue about reduction of identity theft. Over 90% of identity theft comes from people looking over your shoulder. The studies may have been posted online. I am no longer involved in personal RFID, but I used to be, and made a habit of reading lots of 3rd party studies on these things. These studies are the sorts of things that companies purchase and analyze, so your mileage may vary in finding them online for free. You're more likely to find uninformed banter from RFID technophobes.

[tonton]

RFID for toll roads is a pretty good feature. I find it hard to bash, since it has an undeniable effect on reducing traffic, which means more efficient usage of time, and, not to mention, less pollution. I don't really see the invasion of privacy here.

RFID for criminals is already used in the form of the ankle bracelet.

RFID implants are not mandatory. Even if they were, if you have the desire to do so they're not that hard to block, disable and/or remove, so it would be extremely difficult to issue them forcibly. Plus, it seems like there are studies that show they cause a cancer risk, which undoubtedly will reduce demand.

RFID is better than fingerprint scanning because finger print scanning is (a) failure prone (b) time consuming, (c) cannot be conducted at a several-meter distance, and (d) does not require co-operation. For alzheimers patents, RFID seems like it would work well, whereas fingerprint scanning would be difficult.

About ten years ago Scott McNeely said in response to concerns about privacy, "face it, its already gone." In this world, there are two types of people: those that realize this and those that don't. If you're in the second group, there's still cash/gold, Wyoming, and burying firearms. If you're in the first group, RFID is enabling, since it reduces the potential for identity theft and provides much better tracking capabilities for the user.

I can expect that people will argue about reduction of identity theft. Over 90% of identity theft comes from people looking over your shoulder. The studies may have been posted online. I am no longer involved in personal RFID, but I used to be, and made a habit of reading lots of 3rd party studies on these things. These studies are the sorts of things that companies purchase and analyze, so your mileage may vary in finding them online for free. You're more likely to find uninformed banter from RFID technophobes.

Wow. Just wow.

As said before, we unfortunately do not live in a utopia where the government, corporations and agencies in charge of the technology can be trusted. The potential for abuse is astronomical with technology like this. That's the problem that you don't even bother to acknowledge.

That doesn't even approach the problem of security. Imagine if a malicious hacker gained access to the tech.

This is so scary, and fortunately, it's not to the level where most people are at danger. But to say "we're already there" is such a pussy position on the matter. I know, as a fact, that I have more privacy and security right now than I would if I had an RFID tag implanted in my body.

Yes, indeed, it is a slippery slope. To deny that is to be ignorant.

[Splinemodel]

This is so scary, and fortunately, it's not to the level where most people are at danger. But to say "we're already there" is such a pussy position on the matter. I know, as a fact, that I have more privacy and security right now than I would if I had an RFID tag implanted in my body.

Yes, indeed, it is a slippery slope. To deny that is to be ignorant.

Then don't get an RFID tag implanted in your body. I speak of RFID broadly, mostly in the form of toll road payment, asset tracking, wristbands, credit cards, and cell phones. All of these markets are already beyond infantile states. The first two are undisputed industries. The other three are very much on their ways.

There's really no indication that there's a "slippery slope." No one has come out and said that people are going to have to be tagged. It's certainly a possibility, but there are enough counterbalancing forces in play that it's simply unrealistic to take the doom & gloom on these issues. As far as being ignorant about RFID and it's implications, I can assure you that in this area I am the most knowledgeable person on this forum, by leaps and bounds.

The argument about hackers comes up all the time, and it has been the subject of much research. At the end of the day, there's really not much there, since the only two vectors for substantial RFID hackery are in the middleware and the enterprise layer, in which the same risks exist for all other centralized identification methods. There's nothing intrinsic about RFID that makes it a richer source of data than that which is present in existing ID methods, either, it's just that it's more convenient for collection.

For those of you who will be "moving to Denmark," know that Europe tends to be much more accepting of personal RFID than is the USA. If there's anywhere where people will be tagged against their will, it's continental europe, possibly also South Korea.

[Fellowship]

RFID for toll roads is a pretty good feature. I find it hard to bash, since it has an undeniable effect on reducing traffic, which means more efficient usage of time, and, not to mention, less pollution. I don't really see the invasion of privacy here.

RFID for criminals is already used in the form of the ankle bracelet.

RFID implants are not mandatory. Even if they were, if you have the desire to do so they're not that hard to block, disable and/or remove, so it would be extremely difficult to issue them forcibly. Plus, it seems like there are studies that show they cause a cancer risk, which undoubtedly will reduce demand.

RFID is better than fingerprint scanning because finger print scanning is (a) failure prone (b) time consuming, (c) cannot be conducted at a several-meter distance, and (d) does not require co-operation. For alzheimers patents, RFID seems like it would work well, whereas fingerprint scanning would be difficult.

About ten years ago Scott McNeely said in response to concerns about privacy, "face it, its already gone." In this world, there are two types of people: those that realize this and those that don't. If you're in the second group, there's still cash/gold, Wyoming, and burying firearms. If you're in the first group, RFID is enabling, since it reduces the potential for identity theft and provides much better tracking capabilities for the user.

I can expect that people will argue about reduction of identity theft. Over 90% of identity theft comes from people looking over your shoulder. The studies may have been posted online. I am no longer involved in personal RFID, but I used to be, and made a habit of reading lots of 3rd party studies on these things. These studies are the sorts of things that companies purchase and analyze, so your mileage may vary in finding them online for free. You're more likely to find uninformed banter from RFID technophobes.


Two words... Frog stew.

Fellows

[Splinemodel]

Two words... Frog stew.

Fellows

Sounds like a good project for the dutch oven.

[segovius]

And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Revelation 13:17

-------------------

[One of the signs of the end time - before the Antichrist arrives is that] a man will leave his home and his thigh or hip will tell him what is happening back at his home

Prophet Muhammad (from Ahmad)

[Splinemodel]

The "mark on the hand" end-of-times thing was brought up frequently during consumer focus groups that I put together while at my previous [RFID] company. . . and we produced easily-removable RFID wristbands. Indeed, even they were a hard sell in the southern states of the USA, perhaps because of this reason, perhaps not. The point is that I'm quite aware of the numerous consumer advocacy groups that are against personal RFID, and I'm not saying they're a bad thing. Before preaching doom & gloom, it's worth knowing that not everyone is lining up to get RFID impants.

The thigh/hip thing has already come with cell phones. I would be interested to see if cell phones too are absent from the more conservative Islam way of life.

[segovius]

The thigh/hip thing has already come with cell phones. I would be interested to see if cell phones too are absent from the more conservative Islam way of life.

No, they are rampant - but that fits in too as the end time prophecies state that the Muslims of the end times will be the furthest possible from the original ideal and split into 72 sects. 71 of which will be going somewhere hot and unpleasant.

[Fellowship]

Let's just tag everything that moves.

http://www.motherearthliving.com/issues/motherearthliving/livestock/National-Animal-Identification-System_224-1.html

Fellows