Is This Free Speech?

[SDW2001]

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/education/14178899/detail.html

The Rocky Mountain Collegian published an editorial on page 4 of the paper Friday which read "Taser this ... F*** Bush.

The expletive was spelled out."

The Board of Student Communications has the authority to hear any and all grievances and complaints related to student media operations. The BSC can also remove student managers, like McSwane, if it deems necessary.

I am interested on your opinion on this. There are certain limits on free speech, such as the oft repeated "screaming FIRE in a crowed theater" line. Is this one of those "walls" that the student newspaper has hit? The University is prohibited from censoring, but should the "manager" be removed or sanctioned by the BSC?

I think so. "Freedom of Speech" does not mean one can run a 3 inch headline proclaiming "Fuck Bush" or "Fuck Clinton" or "fuck" anyone else. It's obscene. We don't even allow that kind of stuff here on AI in titles. It's the profanity I take issue with in this case, even though I clearly embrace it in my own speech! It's the context that matters. So, I think the student manager should be removed or at least sanctioned.

Your thoughts...

[hardeeharhar]

What a fucking irrational stance you have taken.

Obscenities are not a universal standard. They do not do real damage to society when uttered or written, nor do they amount to a call to violent action against an individual. The reason this private forum has decency standards is that its owner decided to have decency standards, and the rules are set by the moderators and administrators. We post in a private setting, whereas a newspaper is a publicly accessible document.

And no, I don't believe the FCC should have the right to baby sit television stations just so that parents can avoid babysitting their children.

[trumptman]

Is it free speech in the constitutional sense as in can he utter those words and thoughts? Sure,however the university is under no obligation to provide the student with the job, printing press, newspaper position to voice those views. The opinion of those students isn't something the government should attempt to prevent.

However on the flip side, if the student is removed from this position, he has no constitutional rights or freedoms that have been infringed and thus the government has no right to prosecute the board for removing him.

As for AI/PO, well if you are a conservative who utters a profanity, you get a sad smilie face called an infraction where you get a point against you like I did for the word a$$hole. If you are a not a conservative, curse away all day every day. For example Hardee will never get an infraction for his use of language above.

Nick

[sammi jo]

I think so. "Freedom of Speech" does not mean one can run a 3 inch headline proclaiming "Fuck Bush" or "Fuck Clinton" or "fuck" anyone else. It's obscene. We don't even allow that kind of stuff here on AI in titles. It's the profanity I take issue with in this case, even though I clearly embrace it in my own speech! It's the context that matters. So, I think the student manager should be removed or at least sanctioned.

Your thoughts...

Ask Sen. Patrick Leahy... he's been the recipient of similar commentary (on the Senate Floor, no less)

[Splinemodel]

I think the college should take action on the grounds that unmoderated, oft-irrational partisan rancor in public fora is known to be bad for PR, and ultimately bad for enrollment. Take Antioch as an example. Of course, it's their choice whether they do so or not, but in my opinion this recent event is a stain on academic and economic credentials, which both tend to be prime concerns for colleges and universities. If they don't remove the editor, it will come back to bite them, and I can't imagine they won't do so.

[SDW2001]

What a fucking irrational stance you have taken.

Thanks for immediately being a dick towards me for no apparent reason.



Obscenities are not a universal standard.

I didn't say they were. However, we can all agree that the word "fuck" is an obscenity.

They do not do real damage to society when uttered or written, nor do they amount to a call to violent action against an individual.

Speaking of universal standards, why is that the standard?

The reason this private forum has decency standards is that its owner decided to have decency standards, and the rules are set by the moderators and administrators. We post in a private setting, whereas a newspaper is a publicly accessible document.

So it follows that a private forum has more strict rules on speech than does a publicly accessible newspaper? What kind of sense does that make? Secondly, whether or not the student body should impose decency standards is precisely the question I've asked, and the one you've essentially avoided.


And no, I don't believe the FCC should have the right to baby sit television stations just so that parents can avoid babysitting their children.

So the stations should just be able to put anything they want on pubic broadcast/network TV? I don't agree with that. I of course believe parents need to take more responsibility. Believe me, I'm a teacher...it's scary out there on that issue. But I do think there should be some standards for basic broadcast TV.

Is it free speech in the constitutional sense as in can he utter those words and thoughts? Sure,however the university is under no obligation to provide the student with the job, printing press, newspaper position to voice those views. The opinion of those students isn't something the government should attempt to prevent.

Agreed.



However on the flip side, if the student is removed from this position, he has no constitutional rights or freedoms that have been infringed and thus the government has no right to prosecute the board for removing him.

I don't see where you got that from or why that would happen. I can see why he'd have no grounds to sue the student government and/or University, if that's what you meant.



As for AI/PO, well if you are a conservative who utters a profanity, you get a sad smilie face called an infraction where you get a point against you like I did for the word a$$hole. If you are a not a conservative, curse away all day every day. For example Hardee will never get an infraction for his use of language above.

Nick

Well it seems that way, unfortunately. Call someone a name in the heat of the moment and you might get banned. I called someone "deluded" in one post and got an infraction. Meanwhile, someone recently posted this, clearly about me:

What AI member is a fat fucking moronic prick who has been repeatedly shown to be utterly wrong on every issue he ever spoke about, yet continues to spew same retarded braindead bollocks cuntishness day after day, month after month, year after year?

As this is technically a question with no reference to anybody in particular - whomever reports it confirms that they are the one


Ask Sen. Patrick Leahy... he's been the recipient of similar commentary (on the Senate Floor, no less)

How is that even remotely the same?

I think the college should take action on the grounds that unmoderated, oft-irrational partisan rancor in public fora is known to be bad for PR, and ultimately bad for enrollment. Take Antioch as an example. Of course, it's their choice whether they do so or not, but in my opinion this recent event is a stain on academic and economic credentials, which both tend to be prime concerns for colleges and universities. If they don't remove the editor, it will come back to bite them, and I can't imagine they won't do so.

That's an interesting thought, but according to the article they cannot censor even if they wanted to. The BSC could, not the University.

[Splinemodel]

That puts the college in a tough spot, then. They'll have to make this point known to the BSC.

[@_@ Artman]

http://www.video-link.tv/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/lenny_bruce.jpg (http://youtube.com/view_play_list%3Fp%3D34BEF9937C5CAE48)

Take away the right to say fuck and you take away the right to say fuck the government. - Lenny Bruce

[MarcUK]

Thanks for immediately being a dick towards me for no apparent reason.

...no apparent reason :lol:

[midwinter]

"Freedom of Speech" does not mean one can run a 3 inch headline proclaiming "Fuck Bush" or "Fuck Clinton" or "fuck" anyone else.

Actually, it does mean you can run a 3 inch headline proclaiming "Fuck Bush" or "Fuck that President from 15 Years Ago." And Freedom of the Press means that people can print that headline without fear of the government busting them upside the head.

Regardless, this pretty much indicates it'll fix itself:


The Associated Press Saturday reported the student newspaper has lost $30,000 in advertising and had to cut pay and other budgets by 10 percent because of fallout.

CSU released a statement Friday that said in part, "While we understand that the editorial in today's Rocky Mountain Collegian is upsetting and offensive to many people, CSU is prohibited by law from censoring or regulating the content of its student media publications."

[sammi jo]

How is that even remotely the same?


Whether its written or spoken doesn't make a fat lot of difference; the message remains the same.

About a year back I recall reading that the FCC had relaxed certain rules regarding the broadcast of certain expletives or obscene terms because they had been uttered on the public airwaves by both Bush and Cheney. "If the President can say it, then we all can", kinda logic.

[mydo]

It's free speech but at the same time it's a waste of free speech. If what you have to say is unintelligent then you're better off not opening your mouth and demonstrating it for everyone.

[@_@ Artman]

Whether its written or spoken doesn't make a fat lot of difference; the message remains the same.

About a year back I recall reading that the FCC had relaxed certain rules regarding the broadcast of certain expletives or obscene terms because they had been uttered on the public airwaves by both Bush and Cheney. "If the President can say it, then we all can", kinda logic.

You know you gotta back that up with some proof. But that's (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/910614.stm) not hard to come by (http://www.laweekly.com/news/news/fuck-yourself-dick-cheney/1566/) in the last seven years (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89voDGJXTlA&search=bush%20shit). :smokey:

[SDW2001]

Whether its written or spoken doesn't make a fat lot of difference; the message remains the same.

About a year back I recall reading that the FCC had relaxed certain rules regarding the broadcast of certain expletives or obscene terms because they had been uttered on the public airwaves by both Bush and Cheney. "If the President can say it, then we all can", kinda logic.

It makes every difference if it's one person just speaking to another.

[SDW2001]

Actually, it does mean you can run a 3 inch headline proclaiming "Fuck Bush" or "Fuck that President from 15 Years Ago." And Freedom of the Press means that people can print that headline without fear of the government busting them upside the head.

Regardless, this pretty much indicates it'll fix itself:


Well, that depends what "can" means. In this case I am just talking about what the BSC should do. Legally they can probably do that, even with the profanity. In reality though, there will be consequences.

[midwinter]

Well, that depends what "can" means. In this case I am just talking about what the BSC should do. Legally they can probably do that, even with the profanity. In reality though, there will be consequences.

BSC should let these knuckleheads learn that there are consequences for their actions and that matters of "public decency" have severe mechanisms for correcting bad behavior (unless you're Ann Coulter, in which case the opposite is true).

In this case, they'll lose $30K in advertising revenues, which should directly affect the paper's ability to do business. They'll also learn that there are ways to be inflammatory without losing $30K in revenues. The end result will be an editorial board for the paper that has deservedly had its teeth kicked in and will never, ever, do something stupid like this again.

[SDW2001]

BSC should let these knuckleheads learn that there are consequences for their actions and that matters of "public decency" have severe mechanisms for correcting bad behavior (unless you're Ann Coulter, in which case the opposite is true).

In this case, they'll lose $30K in advertising revenues, which should directly affect the paper's ability to do business. They'll also learn that there are ways to be inflammatory without losing $30K in revenues. The end result will be an editorial board for the paper that has deservedly had its teeth kicked in and will never, ever, do something stupid like this again.

Agreed. And perhaps losing those $ will prompt them to can the student manager.

[midwinter]

Agreed. And perhaps losing those $ will prompt them to can the student manager.

It depends. For all we know, the faculty advisor of the paper knew that this would happen and let them learn their lesson.

[SDW2001]

It depends. For all we know, the faculty advisor of the paper knew that this would happen and let them learn their lesson.

I find that hard to believe. If so, that guy has got Colbert-sized BALLS.

[midwinter]

I find that hard to believe. If so, that guy has got Colbert-sized BALLS.

Tenure can do that to you. Just ask BRussell. ;)

[SDW2001]

Tenure can do that to you. Just ask BRussell. ;)

Mmm....tenure. I like it. And I have it myself. Not the same as higher ed though, I imagine.

[screener]

It's free speech but at the same time it's a waste of free speech. If what you have to say is unintelligent then you're better off not opening your mouth and demonstrating it for everyone.

When the object of your displeasure is a simpleton, a simple retort is in order as an intelligent response would go over their head.

To those Bush supporters, "Fuck you".

[iPoster]

It's free speech but at the same time it's a waste of free speech. If what you have to say is unintelligent then you're better off not opening your mouth and demonstrating it for everyone.

Seconded.

And since we're on the subject of words you shouldn't say (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHW_SdxOarM). :D (NSFW, and yeah, I'm old school!)