Control over food supply.

[Fellowship]

Should a handfull of corporations dictate the food supply for the people of the world? They think so...

This is a subject matter which saddens me very much and I wanted to get your ideas and opinions as they relate to this subject.

The following is a several part series of segments of the film "Future of food"

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvLBMXC_D0Q

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgWa-A3-x_Y&mode=related&search=

Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL0nlCFTbMk&mode=related&search=

Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWrKexPWMeU&mode=related&search=

Part 5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmmNXRC_GwY&mode=related&search=

Part 6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FFwsCr9c-4&mode=related&search=

Part 7 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GimVJq7AmE&mode=related&search=

Should we go into other parts of the world and install our corporate system of control over cultures which for thousands of years had their own agricultural heritage of diverse foods and crops?

http://www.organicconsumers.org/patent/iraq111704.cfm
http://www.organicconsumers.org/politics/iraq121305.cfm
http://www.grain.org/articles/?id=6
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=12547

And then we have the terminator gene.... your thoughts?

http://www.ethicalinvesting.com/monsanto/terminator.shtml
http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2006/0828.html

I think power, greed and the pursuit of control is quite frankly out of control in a bad way...

Please share your thoughts about this subject..

Fellows

In my opinion every farmer in the world should have the option to save their seed and use it without penalty.
http://www.seedsavers.org/

[Akumulator]

Ooops... sorry. Mispost.

[Jubelum]

Corporate farming will eventually be a victim of its own methods. First, their shallow gene pools make them (and by default us) susceptible to a single agent wiping out entire continents worth of crops. Second, the reliance on petrochemicals for mega-farming will eventually have to change. Corporate farming has achieved an incredible feat, maintaining the billions of people on this planet. It's just that the evolved and evolving methods are becoming a problem.

The organics will inherit the Earth... and probably be able to feed who is left. :no:

The Terminator gene is simply evil. It is a tool of control that has not been even glimpsed for what it could mean for millions of people. Food and water will be the tools of control when we start going ballistic over political meltdown and the end of oil, whenever that is. It's in Revelation, and it stands to reason as well.

[Sherman Homan]

The organics will inherit the Earth... and probably be able to feed who is left. Well, probably not, humans tried living off of organic farming for millennia. The result was one catastrophic wave of famine after another. It has only been with the advent of petroleum based fertilizer and pesticides that we now produce more than enough food. The cost of food measured as the percentage of your work week required to feed your family has steadily dropped over the last century. Genetically modified foods will continue the trend, better food, more nutritious and cheaper.

[Frank777]

Farming prepares to go Vertical. (http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/10/technology/farming_vertical.biz2/index.htm)

http://i.cnn.net/money/2007/09/10/technology/farming_vertical.biz2/sky_farming.03.jpg

[@_@ Artman]

http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/soylent-green.jpg

Eating Fossil Fuels (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html)

[talksense101]

http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/soylent-green.jpg

Eating Fossil Fuels (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html)

That is a disturbing read, but it is the natural progression from the Peak Oil theory. The easiest solution to reducing dependency on oil based fertilizers and insecticides is to use GM modified products. I am sure the propaganda machine will sell that over Organic farming globally. :\ Once we hand over our food source to corporates, I am sure the world will be a better place... I can think of soo many B grade sci-fi movies for our future right now.

Here's hoping for some God sent genius who can come up with a solution (that is not IP fucked by a corporate) to address this.

[southside grabowski]

This is a complicated issue. For generations, crop improvement research was primarily the role of university ag departments. As the technologies became more complicated and expensive, much of this work moved to the private sector. The universities simply did not have the resources. Many universities moved away from the roles of generating new maize and bean lines. Likewise, many of the smaller compainies have been absorbed. There are, however, still many lines that are not controlled by the Agro business sector.

The solution is not obvious. Companies that spend billions of dollars developing a product have a right to protect it. No one has a right to tell a company it can not make money or how much money it can make. The market does this. Historically, those growing hybrid corn (or any other hybrids) have had to buy new seed every year. This is governed by biology, not corporate culture. I do have concerns about the terminator technologies as a biohazard.

[Fellowship]

That is a disturbing read

Here's hoping for some God sent genius who can come up with a solution (that is not IP fucked by a corporate) to address this.

"In the last two decades, the use of hydrocarbon-based pesticides in the U.S. has increased 33-fold, yet each year we lose more crops to pests. This is the result of the abandonment of traditional crop rotation practices. Nearly 50% of U.S. corn land is grown continuously as a monoculture. This results in an increase in corn pests, which in turn requires the use of more pesticides. Pesticide use on corn crops had increased 1,000-fold"

"A corn crop that produces 118 bushels/acre/year requires more than 500,000 gallons/acre of water during the growing season. The production of 1 pound of maize requires 1,400 pounds (or 175 gallons) of water. Unless something is done to lower these consumption rates, modern agriculture will help to propel the United States into a water crisis."

"Modern intensive agriculture is unsustainable. It is damaging the land, draining water supplies and polluting the environment. And all of this requires more and more fossil fuel input to pump irrigation water, to replace nutrients, to provide pest protection, to remediate the environment and simply to hold crop production at a constant."
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/100303_eating_oil.html

Ohh boy,,,

Indeed a disturbing read..

Fellows

[southside grabowski]

The more you spray, the more you select for resistance. Be it antibiotics, herbicides or pesticides. That dang evolution again.

[Fellowship]

The more you spray, the more you select for resistance. Be it antibiotics, herbicides or pesticides. That dang evolution again.

I think it is clear God designed the biology of the plant kingdom to survive via genetic diversity. Now mankind is playing a tug of war with nature by planting monocultures and spraying the crap out of them.

But we all know man is smarter than mothernature / God.

Fellows

[@_@ Artman]

I think it is clear God designed the biology of the plant kingdom to survive via genetic diversity. Now mankind is playing a tug of war with nature by planting monocultures and spraying the crap out of them.

But we all know man is smarter than mothernature / God.

Fellows

Oop. Not going there (emphasis mine). ;) Something tells me this thread could be derailed any minute...

[Fellowship]

Oop. Not going there (emphasis mine). ;) Something tells me this thread could be derailed any minute...

No fear I just wanted to toss some spice into the mix and kick it up a few notches ;)

This thread is about food production methods etc... not the other subject hahaha

Fellows

[@_@ Artman]

These specific problems are likely to get even worse with the push for more ethanol and the government intervening to make it so through agricultural subsidization.

No subsidies? No problem (http://www.pjstar.com/stories/092407/REG_BEDA0BCH.017.php)

New Zealand's 17-year success story without them touted to Illinois farmers on visit

No one believes Congress will pull the plug on farm subsidies.

But what would happen if lawmakers did end handouts that began nearly 75 years ago during the Great Depression?

Mostly good things, if New Zealand is any example.

New Zealand once subsidized agriculture, mainly dairy farmers and cattle and sheep ranchers, believing that government money was needed to prop up farmers who had to compete against counterparts from other nations that also had generous subsidies.

Faced with an economic crisis, however, New Zealand went cold turkey in 1984, ending subsidies with almost no warning. It remains the only industrialized nation in the world that has completely abandoned farm subsidies.

At first, doom-and-gloom predictions appeared accurate. Farmers organized protests as land values plummeted. Some went out of business. Unemployment rose, and rural business owners suffered as farmers stopped spending money. But hard times didn't last.

Within a few years, New Zealand's rural economy rebounded. Land prices now are higher than ever - an acre of prime farmland costs more in New Zealand than in the United States. Agriculture today accounts for 19 percent of New Zealand's gross domestic product, the value of all goods and services produced in a country. That's an increase of 5 percent since subsidies ended.

[southside grabowski]

I think it is clear God designed the biology of the plant kingdom to survive via genetic diversity. Now mankind is playing a tug of war with nature by planting monocultures and spraying the crap out of them.

But we all know man is smarter than mothernature / God.

Fellows




Don't go flaky on me Fellows. My point is valid and we are not disagreeing.

We plant herbicide resistant corn and then the farmer soaks the field with the herbicide. The result is resistant weeds. It's a huge problem. Overuse of herbicides has always been a problem, but resistant crops have made it much worse.

[Fellowship]

Don't go flaky on me Fellows. My point is valid and we are not disagreeing.

We plant herbicide resistant corn and then the farmer soaks the field with the herbicide. The result is resistant weeds. It's a huge problem. Overuse of herbicides has always been a problem, but resistant crops have made it much worse.

I agree it is a problem..

I am half tempted to start my own garden in my back yard using organic methods.

Fellows

[Jubelum]

I agree it is a problem..

I am half tempted to start my own garden in my back yard using organic methods.

Fellows

Only half?

I'm ready to plant for next spring in a week or two... 8-)

[Fellowship]

Only half?

I'm ready to plant for next spring in a week or two... 8-)

That does it!!!! I AM starting a new project. As a young boy my parents had a garden in the back yard. It produced much great fresh food including tomatoes, squash, okra, radishes, carrots.

Thanks for the nudge Jubelum

Fellows

[Jubelum]

That does it!!!! I AM starting a new project. As a young boy my parents had a garden in the back yard. It produced much great fresh food including tomatoes, squash, okra, radishes, carrots.

Thanks for the nudge Jubelum

Fellows

My wife and I maintain the garden for both fun and exercise, as well as saving money and occassionaly making a profit. I usually plant triple of one crop per year, and sell it at the local farmers market. This year, a half a truckload of squash meant another $200 we can put toward paying our property taxes. :\

I think next year I am going to do organic basil... I have an acquaintaince who owns a local asian grocery who is ready to buy all that I bring her. We pay our local grocery store $4 per package for 2-3 small stems of organic holy basil- at that rate, this year's basil plant is worth as much as my new Cinema display. :rolleyes:

We figured that this year, our garden has saved us over $300 at the grocery store. We know what has been put on our food (not much) and are not dependent on a truck to bring us vegetables. We do eat out more than I think we should, but growing food ourselves has pulled us back to the family dinner table. We're also saving gas for not driving from one trough to another.

I always encourage people to plant something... start small, with just one or two things. I started with two pots of Anise Basil (we do a lot of thai and indian cooking) and just added a little more each season. It does not need to be all that expensive or time consuming to just grow a few things, and you can really take it at your own pace. My parents have three tomato plants, and that is all they care to deal with. We enjoy giving fresh tomatoes to the whole neighborhood once or twice a year. You know, a reason to get away from this damn screen and go meet the neighbors we never see anymore. (Next thing you know, I'll be smoking the Hookah in a drum circle singing "River of Jordan") :D

Before I moved to my current home, and lived further out in the sticks, a few families got together and we each planted two crops. By the middle of summer we were starting to can things because of the amount that the group was sharing. An amazingly anti-corporate cooperative move for a mean old candy-eating, gun-toting winger like me. ;)

People don't think about what happens when the trucks simply stop running- from crisis, oil shortage, driver strike, meteor strike, whatever. Knowing how to plant, grow, harvest, and prepare are simple skills that we have managed to cast off due to modern "convenience." We're dependent, all of us, just like small children in many ways. We count on someone to bring us food, bring us energy, etc. etc. etc. Katrina showed that we should all take a long, hard look at being both prepared and as independent as possible. You cannot count on your government, or even your fellow human in some cases, when there is even a localized meltdown as seen in New Orleans.

If Katrina did accomplish one thing, it was that it brought the need for some kind of self-sufficiency and preparedness out of the Unabombers cabin and put it on network TV. It was a shot across the bow for those smart enough and paying attention.

Besides, growing for yourself and friends is great exercise, builds community and esprit de corps, keeps the kids busy and learning, and lets me occasionally throw the miniature Finger at The Man when I go to the grocery store. This year it was worth it just to see my nephew succeed in making his beans grow. Small victory for a grown up- "wow, beans..." but a efficacy-boosting shot-in-the-arm to an 8 year old.

[Fellowship]

My wife and I maintain the garden for both fun and exercise, as well as saving money and occassionaly making a profit.

I think next year I am going to do organic basil...

I always encourage people to plant something... start small, with just one or two things. We enjoy giving fresh tomatoes to the whole neighborhood once or twice a year. You know, a reason to get away from this damn screen and go meet the neighbors we never see anymore. (Next thing you know, I'll be smoking the Hookah in a drum circle singing "River of Jordan") :D

Before I moved to my current home, and lived further out in the sticks, a few families got together and we each planted two crops. By the middle of summer we were starting to can things because of the amount that the group was sharing. An amazingly anti-corporate cooperative move for a mean old candy-eating, gun-toting winger like me. ;)



I think it is clear that politics is not always black and white when it comes to our personal views and how we like to choose to live.

Left and Right do not describe the really interesting details of our lives.

I think it is cool what you do Jub..

Fellows

[@_@ Artman]

Why does the U.S. prison system demand higher quality food than the U.S. school system? (http://www.slatev.com/player.html?id=1182700684)

Damn, I'm in the wrong business. Should have studied greed, ignorance and stupidity*. :rolleyes:

* Should have studied Chinese too...wait for it...

[vinea]

Before I moved to my current home, and lived further out in the sticks, a few families got together and we each planted two crops. By the middle of summer we were starting to can things because of the amount that the group was sharing. An amazingly anti-corporate cooperative move for a mean old candy-eating, gun-toting winger like me. ;)


The thing that pisses me off about (conservative) politics today is the demonization of the opposition. That happens on both sides but just seems meaner from ours.

At the end of the day, we're all people. Even Dick and George. While I might not go hunting with Dick (heh) I assume he's a pleasant fellow when not in his official persona.


People don't think about what happens when the trucks simply stop running- from crisis, oil shortage, driver strike, meteor strike, whatever. Knowing how to plant, grow, harvest, and prepare are simple skills that we have managed to cast off due to modern "convenience." We're dependent, all of us, just like small children in many ways. We count on someone to bring us food, bring us energy, etc. etc. etc. Katrina showed that we should all take a long, hard look at being both prepared and as independent as possible. You cannot count on your government, or even your fellow human in some cases, when there is even a localized meltdown as seen in New Orleans.

If Katrina did accomplish one thing, it was that it brought the need for some kind of self-sufficiency and preparedness out of the Unabombers cabin and put it on network TV. It was a shot across the bow for those smart enough and paying attention.

Besides, growing for yourself and friends is great exercise, builds community and esprit de corps, keeps the kids busy and learning, and lets me occasionally throw the miniature Finger at The Man when I go to the grocery store. This year it was worth it just to see my nephew succeed in making his beans grow. Small victory for a grown up- "wow, beans..." but a efficacy-boosting shot-in-the-arm to an 8 year old.

Heh, while we have a small garden of tomatoes I have absolutely no doubts that push comes to shove we'd starve in a post apocalytic world. My disaster planning is for 2 weeks at the max. After which the generator is dead, the food gone and we better be out of dodge or be able to hike there.

The best defense for a Katrina like event is simply not to be there. For everything else you look at the risks of sheltering in place vs being stuck on the road when something even more unpleasant happens. Our road networks are not all that well suited for rapid evacuation.

I agree with the rest on community building, etc.

Vinea