Office X .... what if you have 2 boxes ?

[Adam11]

Ummm, not sure which forum this best bleongs to, but...

the rumour is tha tyou can not install office X on 2 separate computers - even if you own them both. I have a G4 867 and a G4 dual 500 and I share internet access between them thought my airport (my wife/children still cue up to get access). As expected I also use the OS x 'connect to server' feature and 'network' them too.

If I buy a legitimite Office X and try to install them on both machines I am kind of afraid that *
1. I just wont be able to do it,
2. even if I can do it the first time that i connect the two boxes via the airport that somehow the Office X will recognise that the same rego is on separate boxes, and do something terrible to me
3. If I am logged into anything with a passport from either /both G4s (messenger/hotmail etc) somehow this will be picked up.

Am I paranoid.... is anything like th above likely to happen.... if so what can I do. I thinnk it is only fair that I should be able to install legitimite software on 2 computers that I own (they are even in the same room !!).

What do you think
Cheers
adam

[Adam11]

I guess it was too much to hope that my old post count would survive. here's to new beginnings!

[corvette]

That's microsoft for you.

What I would do: Buy your copy,

And grab another cracked serial number from the web.

That's moral enough, wouldn't you say? <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[Escher]

From what I understand, the Office v.X broadcasts a signal on your local network while it is running. If you try to start a second copy on your second computer that is networked with the first that is already running it, you will get a message saying that "you don't have enough licences to start Office." If your computers aren't networked there is no problem.

So, you will be able to install Office v.X on all of your computers, but you will only be able to run it and use it on one computer at a time.

I still think this is a pain in the ass and hope somebody creates a workaround. I have two computers and run one copy of Office on both. It will be very inconvenient to have to quit Office on one machine in order to use it on the other. :(

I look forward to using Office v.X, because it's a great product. But I'm really sick of MS's overzealous copyright enforcement. I understand going after commercial companies that pirate software. But go after the average home user who paid for one licence and wants to use Office on his desktop and laptop? Give me a freakin' break!

Escher

[Escher]

[quote]Originally posted by corvette:
<strong>Buy your copy, And grab another cracked serial number from the web.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Very interesting thought, corvette. I wonder how far the signal that Office brodcasts goes. I'd certainly have no moral qualms about using a cracked serial number in the way described above.

Escher

[Escher]

One more point:

I haven't researched the law, but I would venture to guess that running Office on two computers but only using it on one at a time qualifies as "fair use." I wonder whether we could sue Microsoft for infringing upon our right to fair use. Maybe I could explore this option as a special project in law school. Guess I'll have to wait until I'm done with the Copyright class in the Spring and have a clue of what I'm talking about.

As a sidenote, ironically, I used to work for the law firm that represents Microsoft in the DOJ and other antitrust cases. I was even involved in discovery for one of the trials. I'm not proud of it, but it was a good professional experience.

Escher

[bradbower]

I can confirm that it does this. HIGHLY annoying. It happens if you're using ANY Office X app on one computer, and you open ANY one on another.. I generally like to leave my email open so it can just go about it's schedules and tell me when I've got mail, but then I can't open Word or anything on another computer while it's open. So I can't do that anymore. I put Entourage on my mom's computer too and now we can't check our mail at the same time.

I personally disagree with the stupid copyrights about one copy, per household, per person, per computer, at a time thing. They can't seriously expect a parent or something to pay over a thousand dollars for TWO copies of this, just so they and their child can check email or write a letter at the same time! Or a single person, buying a double license? Does that sound wrong to you, or is it just me? LUDICROUS.

I'm definitely finding a warezed serial ASAP.

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: bradbower ]</p>

[bradbower]

Well I decided to do some detective work. I had the idea that it was probably a constantly open, possibly broadcasting port, so what better way to find itt than Network Utility? :)

Here are my results:

Before Entourage was open:

Port Scanning host: 127.0.0.1

Open Port: 21 ftp
Open Port: 22 ssh
Open Port: 407
Open Port: 427
Open Port: 548
Open Port: 3000
Open Port: 3031

After Entourage was open:

Port Scanning host: 127.0.0.1

Open Port: 21 ftp
Open Port: 22 ssh
Open Port: 407
Open Port: 427
Open Port: 548
Open Port: 3000
Open Port: 3031
Open Port: 3858

I had a feeling that I should make sure it doesn't change, so here's after Entourage was open, for the second time, and sure enough:

Port Scanning host: 127.0.0.1

Open Port: 21 ftp
Open Port: 22 ssh
Open Port: 407
Open Port: 427
Open Port: 548
Open Port: 3000
Open Port: 3031
Open Port: 3618

I quit and reopened it again, and here's what it came up with the third time:

Port Scanning host: 127.0.0.1

Open Port: 21 ftp
Open Port: 22 ssh
Open Port: 407
Open Port: 427
Open Port: 548
Open Port: 3000
Open Port: 3031
Open Port: 3075

Looks like it won't be as easy as just blocking a port. If anything it would be necessary to block all ports between 3000 and 4000, but I have no idea a) how it would react then or b) what other applications/daemons use those port numbers that would be blocked. I'm thinking that to disable this may require reverse engineering. :(

Blah Micro$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$oft.

[groverat]

Read the EULA

Photoshop does the same thing in my lab network when I accidentally entered the same serial twice.

(Hey software companies, when someone pays for 30 different copies of the same software at once, at least be nice enough to break up the serial numbers and not plop them down on one big list with no line breaks)

[Solishu]

Man, I would soooo love to see Microsoft (or really any big corp) get sued for fair use violation. That right has been steadily going down the crapper for the last few years, and it really bugs me that no one is doing anything about it.

[Escher]

[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>Well I decided to do some detective work. I had the idea that it was probably a constantly open, possibly broadcasting port, so what better way to find itt than Network Utility? :)
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Microsoft is really being a smartass on this. The ever-changing port sure is sneaky. With always on Internet access via DSL, I worry about unauthorized access to my system. But unauthorized broadcasting from my system by a company that I buy products from irks me significantly more.

The way I see it, the MBU was forced from above to implement a copyright enforcement feature in some way. I guess we're lucky that we didn't get Windows XP's activation "feature". But it still bothers me immensely that we have to deal with this at all.

Escher

[groverat]

[quote]Originally posted by Solishu:
<strong>Man, I would soooo love to see Microsoft (or really any big corp) get sued for fair use violation. That right has been steadily going down the crapper for the last few years, and it really bugs me that no one is doing anything about it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

My friend bought a copy of DeltaForce LandWarrior and he tried to make a copy of it (He is a moron and he lays his CDs around so they get scratched up. Rather than learn proper handling he just makes copies. :rolleyes: ). NovaLogic put a burn-shit in there so I sent them an e-mail outlining fair use policy. Guess what he got in the mail a few days later, three CDs with LandWarrior on them.

I sent them another e-mail since this didn't fix the problem at all and they e-mailed back with a workaround (replacing files at certain times and blah blah blah).

Infuriating.

[Escher]

[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>Looks like it won't be as easy as just blocking a port.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Would it be possible to block all ports without cutting off Internet access? I don't run any server apps on my systems and don't need to access them remotely either. But I do like to be connected to the 'Net at all times.

When I scan the ports on my system with the Network Utility, I get

Port Scanning host: 192.168.1.100

and nothing else, even though I am connected to the Internet via AirPort. Of course, I won't be running Office v.X for a few weeks longer since it's not yet available to the public.

Escher

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>

[Belle]

I'm working on finding an identifier for the port which MS apps are using. It should be easy to write a Perl script to close things down.

[Solishu]

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>I'm working on finding an identifier for the port which MS apps are using. It should be easy to write a Perl script to close things down.</strong><hr></blockquote>Sweet :)

[low-fi]

Micro$oft are being a right pain in the arse about this. I have two machines, and cannot afford to buy two copies of the suite.

I cannot remember where i read it, probably MacNN forums, in the days before the Cube had been restarted :D . Anyway, try blocking port 2222 on the host machines.

Regards
AJ

[ 11-15-2001: Message edited by: Mr A J ]</p>

[Belle]

It's quite possible that it will keep cycling through looking for an available port, and on top of that, the app may refuse to open without an available port.

[Escher]

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>the app may refuse to open without an available port.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Could the app tell the difference between not being on a network and all ports being blocked? If the app's cycle mechanism is sophisticated enough (and I am sure it is), it will find a port unless all of them are locked down.

Belle: Do you know the answer to my question above, i.e. would it be possible to block all ports without cutting off Internet access?

Escher

[JLL]

[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>Read the EULA

Photoshop does the same thing in my lab network when I accidentally entered the same serial twice.

(Hey software companies, when someone pays for 30 different copies of the same software at once, at least be nice enough to break up the serial numbers and not plop them down on one big list with no line breaks)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Adobe apps use the same serial on all installations, so if you have a 30 user license you should get a 30 user serial number.

[JLL]

[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>I personally disagree with the stupid copyrights about one copy, per household, per person, per computer, at a time thing. They can't seriously expect a parent or something to pay over a thousand dollars for TWO copies of this, just so they and their child can check email or write a letter at the same time!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Student License ??

[Xool]

Does the check happen all the time, or just during Application launching? And if another Office app is already running locally, does it still check the network?

The reason is simple, at least for me. I switch off my AirPort and launch my 2nd copy of office. Then switch it back on. Hopefully, since both copies of Office are running when the net connections are restored, everything would be OK.

[Addison]

Anyone who has bought SCO Unix is fully aware of the effects of proper activation. Microsoft should have done this years ago.If it had it wouldn't have had to charge such outragous prices for it's product. The problem is that as each copy of Office sold it is installed on multiple machines and so it has been essential to charge a really high price.

I suspect that if MS reduced the price by 1/2 but made the licence really secure like SCO most users would accept it. If they then charged a porting fee if a user wants to move to a new machine that would compensate MS because they would not know if it were to be gunueinly moved or just installed on a sceond machine at the same time. If they were really clever they could develop an un-installer which would generate a new activation code allowing the user to re-install on another macnine.

[Adam11]

Thanks for all of the thoughts, but short of the cracked code option (and Im not sure how that would go mapped from the same IP against my real copy), it seems like MS has got us stumped. I guess that we might have to wait and see what happens whenn people get it in their hands.

I will be very disturbed if I could not run my own software on either of my G4s.

Any ideas very gratefully accepted!
cheers
adam

[mmurray]

[quote]Originally posted by Adam11:
<strong>Thanks for all of the thoughts, but short of the cracked code option (and Im not sure how that would go mapped from the same IP against my real copy), it seems like MS has got us stumped. I guess that we might have to wait and see what happens whenn people get it in their hands.

I will be very disturbed if I could not run my own software on either of my G4s.

Any ideas very gratefully accepted!
cheers
adam</strong><hr></blockquote>

I rather think MS lawyers will tell you it is not your own software that you have purchased it is their software. You have purchased a license to install it on at most two machines and run it on no more than one at a time.

Its not just MS - Apple are the same for OSX. Its just that Apple don't check.

If you have two machines and you can't afford two copies how is that different from having one machine and not being able to afford one copy ?

As for fair use MS claim they will let you keep it on more than one machine but just not use it one more than one machine. I agree not being able to open Excel on one machine and Word on another is a bit over the top but I guess its the same as not being able to buy just Word and Excel without PowerPoint (which I never use) and getting a discount.

Don't get me wrong I agree the stuff is outrageously overpriced. I just don't see how far you get with the argument that its overpriced therefore I don't have to pay for it.

I'm happy to be convinced otherwise :-)

Michael

[graphiteman]

[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>

Student License ??</strong><hr></blockquote>

For college students only. Verrry helpful to high school students when they have M$ Office at school and need it at home...

[graphiteman]

Has anyone had luck blocking the broadcast port yet?

[Escher]

Have you guys seen <a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000029" target="_blank">this thread</a> over in Software?

It's scary to think that Kevin Browne said that MBU would have implemented Windows XP's activation "feature" in Office v.X if they had the time and manpower. I'll believe it when I read the original interview in German, but it's a daunting thought. The profit-maximizing policies of large corporations are starting to take the fun out of being a consumer.

Escher

[Escher]

[quote]Originally posted by graphiteman:
<strong>Has anyone had luck blocking the broadcast port yet?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Gotta get Office v.X first. It's not shipping until Nov. 19. Note that I always pay for one copy of my applications and don't pirate software over the Internet. ;)

Escher

[bradbower]

First, Escher. No, you can't block all of your ports--you have to use "ports" to have any sort of network traffic, server or not. Servers use ports and keep them open, whether listening or broadcasting, waiting for information to send more information back, so you could say that Office X now has it's own little server inside of it. Anyway, if you were to block all of your ports, your computer's internet connection would be useless. And as far as I know, it may require a log-out, a reconnection, or possibly even a restart (at least of OS X's TCP stack) in order to open/block ports. So that's out of the question--however you're on the right track--one certainly could block all ports between 3000 and 4000 (or 3001 for me, I use port 3000 for my http server), assuming no applications or servers that you wish to continue using access those ports, and then it wouldn't be able to listen or broadcast, if that is the extent of the range of ports it can access. As Belle said, though, if it can't access a port in that range, it may not even function, whether by error, or in case the programmers of Office X presumed users might try this to circumvent the ludicrous licensing scheme. I don't know how to try that, though, or else I would. Any y00n1x experts out there that know about these things?!

Next, JLL, I have to ask: have you ever seen student licensing prices? Most of them are just as much of a joke to a college kid as the regular retail price. Not only that, but what about elementary, junior high, or high school students that want to use this software? What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? I don't even know if Microsoft Office X has student licenses yet, but even if it does, that's still probably going to be a thousand dollars. For a few programs. Insane.

[mmurray]

[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:


What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? <hr></blockquote>

Yes.

Mind you I rather expect they are all using the copy Daddy got from the office to install on his machine at home under an extended license.

Isn't the MS email ( I have never used it) a free application ?

Michael

[akalbay]

[quote]Originally posted by corvette:
<strong>That's microsoft for you.What I would do: Buy your copy,And grab another cracked serial number from the web. </strong><hr></blockquote>

iwhat's a cracked serial number, if i may ask? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[groverat]

The fun out of being a consumer? Did you really just say that? hehe

Companies really should just give away their software, that'll make life fun again.


:rolleyes:

[Sinewave]

Yeah just ask MS.. Free software is Un-American and needs to stop! (well the GPL anyhow) Of course giving away IE is ok ;)

[graphiteman]

[quote]Originally posted by mmurray:
<strong>

Isn't the MS email ( I have never used it) a free application ?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

They do make a free app, but the one in question is the bundled (and not seperately available) Microsoft Entourage. It has Tasks, a calendar, advanced email features, and it's wonderful.

[hacmac]

[quote]Originally posted by mmurray:
<strong>

If you have two machines and you can't afford two copies how is that different from having one machine and not being able to afford one copy ?

</strong><hr></blockquote>


Wow! I like that point pretty much.

My position was and is: If I own one copy, it's fair to use it on both of my machines. If they happen to run simultaneously, which isnt't too often the case, who cares.

This new position translates as follows: Running two copies when only one of them is legally licensed is just as much of an offense as running one pirated copy. This again is pretty much the same as running two pirated copies, so why bother about forking over the money for one copy, when they incriminate you anyway?

These suckers are so damn greedy, it makes me sick.

PS: Personally, I don't use any Microsoft software. I do own some of it, siting unused on the shelf, but being controlled and treated like a criminal just isn't my cup of tea anymore.

[ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: hacmac ]</p>

[bradbower]

The beef here is generally with licensing practices and how not only do these types of tactics supposedly not conform to fair use, but even then they're just inane.

If three people in my family want to use different parts of Office, I'm not going to buy three licenses. If Microsoft really thinks that anybody is going to buy more than one copy of Office, they should at LEAST make it so that when my mom is reading her email in Entourage, I can open a document in MS word--I can't. I'm going to have to resort to finding a serial (Surfer's Serials, try #macfiles on irc.macfiles.net, whoever it was that asked) once Office X gets out. I guess it gets released tomorrow, right? :)

Also, to those of you who are saying installing a copy of a $600 productivity suite from the richest software company in the world on more than one computer is piracy, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And believe you me, that's not a good thing to hear from somebody like myself. ;)

[Dogcow]

[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>Well I decided to do some detective work. I had the idea that it was probably a constantly open, possibly broadcasting port, so what better way to find itt than Network Utility? :) </strong><hr></blockquote>

Correct me if im wrong, but when you use any email program does it not find an available port to send information from? Just out of curiosity, could you try the same test using word, powerpoint, or excel and see if you get the same result, thanks.

[trumptman]

Don't be surprised if you get burned when sitting so near the fire.

What everyone here ought to be doing is NOT using Office. Find and enforce alternatives. If someone asks why, simply inform them of Microsoft's practices. If they shrug their shoulders, then ask them if they will be shrugging their shoulders when it is their home or business that Microsoft wants additional thousands of dollars from.

I personally hope Microsoft finds a way to make it impossible to use their software in a pirated manner. Then people will insist on some real, affordable alternatives. This is already happening big time on the PC side and Mac is going to get left in the dust due to lax enforcement.

I know it sounds crazy, stupid and backwards. The real point is that in this day and age, office apps shouldn't cost what Microsoft charges. When people desire alternatives, they will appear, when they just pirate the standard they don't. This is true be it Mac or PC.

On the PC side there is Star Office, and 602ProSuite just to begin with, on the Mac there is.............

Ata minimum you all ought to demand Apple start doing something decent with Appleworks...

Nick

[JLL]

[quote]Originally posted by bradbower:
<strong>Next, JLL, I have to ask: have you ever seen student licensing prices? Most of them are just as much of a joke to a college kid as the regular retail price. Not only that, but what about elementary, junior high, or high school students that want to use this software? What if Daddy is trying to make a canned PowerPoint about his division's quarterly earnings, and little Trisha wants to type up her lab reports, and David wants to send an email to a friend about the track meet or something? Are they expected to buy THREE licenses of each of the four Office applications just to do this? I don't even know if Microsoft Office X has student licenses yet, but even if it does, that's still probably going to be a thousand dollars. For a few programs. Insane.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Since I don't live in the US I don't know the US student license pricing, but in Denmark a student license of Office is $95, and the requirement is that you have to go to school or have children in schools - any kid age 6 and above (or their parents) can buy a student license of Office in Denmark.

[ 11-19-2001: Message edited by: JLL ]</p>

[Adam11]

Anyone now actually able to confirm this one way or another based on actual experience.... I am especially interested in G4s joined by an Airport connection.

I usually only access the internet similtaneously from the 2 G4s, but I also occasionally use the connect to server function through the Go Finder menu Item..... When exactly will I run into problems with the same copy of office X on them both - with internet or local connection?

[stimuli]

for the record, standard ports to have open are (IIRC):

20 & 21 FTP
23 SMTP (email)
80 http (web pages)

The best way to block off other ports is firewall software. If you feel leet, you may want to fool about with (lucky guess: ) iptables or something.

Check out imaclinux.net and look for iptables and or firewall tutorials. The gist of them apply to your Mac OS X box, though the files will be in different locations.

[Sinewave]

[quote]Originally posted by Escher:
<strong>

Microsoft is really being a smartass on this. The ever-changing port sure is sneaky. </strong><hr></blockquote>


What cracks me up is..MS finds the time to code a program to do this.. but they can't find the time to make sure the app has no security holes.

"Who cares about security as long as a products aren't being used more than once!"

[artenman]

Haha, anyway, just goto like <a href="http://www.macserialjunkie.com" target="_blank">www.macserialjunkie.com</a> and spare yourself some serials dude. Life sucks, and then there are serials. Weee. :D

[mmurray]

[quote]Originally posted by hacmac:
<strong>

My position was and is: If I own one copy, it's fair to use it on both of my machines.


[ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: hacmac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Its a nice idea. But I think you will find that few licence agreements actually say that. Sadly the legally binding license agreement is the one on the packet written by the M$ lawyers not the one we would all like to have!

Michael

[bradd]

Regarding the Microsoft and their "over-zealous" copy protection scheme. Although they have quite a stranglehold on the market, it is fair for them to request that one copy is purchased for each CPU. Running two copies of Office v.X concurrently would be a violation of the EULA, and MS is merely trying to enforce this by having the application check for duplicate serial numbers. Be thankful it isn't sending any checks to a central authentication server.

As for blocking the ports, there are a few ways to go about this. If you have a hardware router, you may be able to set up a firewall within your LAN to try to prevent computers from communicating on certain ports. The other (more popular) method is setting up a firewall using OS X's built in firewall software, which is referred to as TCP wrappers, if I recall correctly. This way, each machine on your network will restrict traffic going on certain ports, or a certain range of ports (i.e. 3000-3999) without affecting normal network traffic (like ftp on 21, www on 80, telnet on 23, ssh on 22, etc). I think I have a tutorial for those that are not *NIX inclined, but remember, Microsoft implemented this copyright scheme as a way to protect their own best interests in terms of capitalism and not simply as a mechanism to make pirates/stingy consumers angry.

:: edit: typos

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: bradd ]</p>

[CaseCom]

The EULA for Office X clearly states that the primary user may make a second copy for use on a portable computer. That is, if you install Office X on your iMac you may also install it on your iBook, as long as it is for your use and not someone else's.

[quote]The primary user of the Computer on which the Software Product is installed may make a second copy for his or her exclusive use on a portable computer.<hr></blockquote>

The quote is from the EULA in the Office X Help program. The EULA on the Office X CD has similar language.

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: CaseCom ]</p>

[Adam11]

Bradd, I am happy to pay USD450 for Office. I am not 'stingy' for not wanting to pay USD900 for having it on my 2 G4s which are in my study one metre apart and only used by me.

I wish I had your financial resources which must be considerable.

cheers
Adam

[NeoMac]

&lt;steps on soapbox&gt;

I think software companies are entitled to protect their software and be justly compensated for their work. I'm sure the software prices would be a lot lower if 80% of it wasn't pirated.

Microsoft might be a huge monolith of a company, but let us not forget hundreds of medium and small software developers get ripped off too.

How would you feel if your work was always ripped off and your livelihood was reduced because of it? Pretty shitty I'd bet.

Given the commodization of computers, I do believe the EULA should allow for two home computers to use the software at the same time.

&lt;steps off soapbox&gt; :)

[Escher]

[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:
<strong>Given the commodization of computers, I do believe the EULA should allow for two home computers to use the software at the same time. </strong><hr></blockquote>

NeoMac: I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment. Even though these elaborate copy protection schemes are a royal pain in the ass, even a monolithic monopolist like Microsoft is allowed to protect its intellectual property. However, a slight expansion of the applied definition of fair use to go along with increased enforcement would only be fair (pun intended).

Escher

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>

[Escher]

[Note that I cross-posted a simlar report to the Office v.X thread in the Software forum.]

After a week of attempts in vain, I finally managed to download a copy of Office v.X to try out until Microsoft manages to produce and ship my boxed version.

Obviously, Word is now able to print (unlike the Test Drive). Also, the style menus are now WYSIWYG. Excel works well. MSN Messenger got a new icon and version number, but I haven't seen any improvements. I rarely use PowerPoint and have yet to test it out. As for Entourage, there's no way I would abandon Eudora and trust my mail to MS.

As a precaution, I turned off AirPort while starting up. I did a port scan later to see if Word would start broadcasting after I turned AirPort back on.

If you start Office while disconnected from your network, it won't start broadcasting when you turn the network back on. However, if your network connection is live when you start any Office application, Office will broadcast on a random port in the 3xxx range. I tried this 10 times, and Office broadcast on a different port each time. I haven't tried blocking the 3xxx ports to see whether office will go beyond that range.

I haven't installed Office v.X on my (networked) Rev.A iMac yet. It is still running only the Classic OS (9.2.1) due to space constraints on the 4GB drive. So I'm not expecting any problems with running two copies (one licenced and one unlicensed) of Office v.X for now.

PS: For a small shock, put Excel and PowerPoint icons next to each other in your Dock. Do you think MS intentionally put this subliminal reminder about Windows XP in Office v.X? I had to move the icons to remedy the situation.

Escher

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>

[pioneer]

If anyone wants a serial # and doesn't know where to get one I suggest private messaging people in this thread who sound like they might have one.

On a side note I've made it a life long goal never to actually PAY for MS software. They have a monopoly so like I have any choice in wether or not I should use it. (Appleworks won't cut it for compatibility, neither will wordperfect.. etc). This copyright BS is a perfect example of how this will only hurt their legitimate customers. Someone who downloads office off the net isn't going to have a problem getting around the cp.

[evildead]

Good sugestion Pioner. I also have an never well pay for MS products. I dont feel its nessisary to pay for it while MS is allowed to cpommit fellonies. I also had the same problem with having 2 Mac's on the same network. You can block all the port 3000 - 4000 and s af few others I think to get it to work or you can unplug your ethernet connetcion before you start up Office I think. (I hear it works) then plug it back in. Or you could use diffrent serial number. I didnt block any ports and mine works now.

Hit: I can help

[vans]

Simple solutions for simple problems. Type in the following in the Terminal, either as root or sudo it.

ipfw add 1 reject udp from any to any 2222

Shazam, Office X is cut off from snooping on your LAN.
You have to redo this after a restart, so it might be handy to make it run at startup...

Cheers. :D

[EmAn]

Could someone send me Word v.X so I can have it in the mean time until I convince my parents to get it for me?

[graphiteman]

Is it legal for me to download a copy of office after calling and placing an order for it?

And can someone post the EULA for Office? I'd like to examine it very carefully to find loopholes.

[evildead]

[quote]Originally posted by vans:
<strong>Simple solutions for simple problems. Type in the following in the Terminal, either as root or sudo it.

ipfw add 1 reject udp from any to any 2222

Shazam, Office X is cut off from snooping on your LAN.
You have to redo this after a restart, so it might be handy to make it run at startup...


Vans

I'm not familure with those commands what do they do? Also, to make it a startup script do I just make the first letter in the file name a cappital S? then put it in what directory?

-evildead
Cheers. :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: evildead ]</p>

[Barry Sharp]

[quote]Originally posted by evildead:
<strong>

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: evildead ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

evildead:

In directory /Library/StartupItems define a directory called BlockOffice. You now have /Library/StartupItems/BlockOffice.

In the BlockOffice directory create a text script file as follows

#!/bin/sh
ipfw add 1 reject udp from any to any 2222

and name this file OfficeBlocker and make it executable (chmod u+x ./OfficeBlocker)

Now create a file named StartupParameters.plist as follows using your favorite Terminal.app editor

{
Description = "Office v.X Blocker";
Provides = ("OfficeBlocker");
Requires = ("Resolver");
Uses = ("Network Time","NFS");
OrderPreference = "Late";
Messages = {
start = "Starting OfficeBlocker Services";
stop = "Stopping OfficeBlocker Services";
};
}

Now whenever you boot the ipfw command should be executed.

I've not checked any of the above out (and it could contain errors), but conceptualy this is how you can do things of this kind at startup. There are other ways to do this also such as modifying the /etc/rc scripts.

BTW the ipfw command may or may not do what you want as I've not checked any of this out yet -- just wanted to give you something to be working on :)

Regards... Barry Sharp

[tonton]

Developers have been doing this for years. I know as a fact that Adobe, Quark and AutoDesk (or whoever released the Mac version of AutoCAD) all were comparing serial numbers over Appletalk networks by 1994.

Don't be Microsoft whiners. If I were a Microsoft shareholder I'd be applauding the registration system for XP. It's going to cut piracy a great deal.

In a household with multiple networked macs and a single copy of office, you'll just have to run Outlook Express on some of them instead of Entourage, and take turns using Word and Excel. Get over it.

[Adam11]

How many MAC Boxes/Users in your houshold Tonton ?

It is easier for some to get over than others i suspect.

Cheers
adam

[pioneer]

[quote] If I were a Microsoft shareholder I'd be applauding the registration system for XP. It's going to cut piracy a great deal.<hr></blockquote>

:rolleyes: Only from those who actually bought a copy and would, rightfully so, like to install it on more than one computer. If you own 3 macs your expected to go and buy 3 copies of office? Give me a break, that's blatant robbery.

[Brad]

[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:
<strong>I'm sure the software prices would be a lot lower if 80% of it wasn't pirated.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Funny. I see the opposite as true.

I'm sure if the software prices were a lot lower, 80% of it wouldn't be pirated.

<img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[graphiteman]

[quote]Originally posted by graphiteman:
<strong>Is it legal for me to download a copy of office after calling and placing an order for it?

And can someone post the EULA for Office? I'd like to examine it very carefully to find loopholes.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Opinions?

[tonton]

[quote]Originally posted by pioneer:
<strong> :rolleyes: Only from those who actually bought a copy and would, rightfully so, like to install it on more than one computer. If you own 3 macs your expected to go and buy 3 copies of office? Give me a break, that's blatant robbery.</strong><hr></blockquote>

There's nothing stopping you from buying one copy of Office v.X and installing it on all your Macs.

As I said, though, you'll have to take turns, or turn off networking.

If your family can afford two Macs which can support OS X, you can probably afford to pay Microsoft what they deserve for their technology. If you can't, then give thanks for your multiple macs, tighten your belt and take turns.

Right now I have a PowerBook G4 and my wife has a Windows notebook. Next year I plan on buying her an iBook. We'll definitely be networked via airport.

I'll install her copy of AppleWorks on my PowerBook. I'll install my copy of Office on her iBook. We will take turns using these as necessary. Meanwhile we'll be sure and have copies of icWord or another Word file reader.

Sharing would also apply in regards to Entourage and Outlook Express. You can set both of these programs to access the same email database so it won't matter which one you use for email.

[Bogie]

It always goes over port 222 and then sends over a random one on 222 between 3000 and 4000. Just block 222 in the command line with this command:

sudo ipfw add 0 deny udp from any to any 2222

And then the check will not occur.

[trumptman]

Why is it robbery for Microsoft to not allow you to install one piece of software on all the machines you own? They want one license per machine. Their strategy has never changed. What should change is everyone's understanding. Office apps have become commoditized as have computers. The parties that realize this quickest are going to win.

Under this new understanding an office suite shouldn't cost more than $100. Star Office is free and PC alternatives are popping up that are completely MS Office compatible for no more than $200 per SITE.

In a day where many PC's are going for roughly $799-999 including monitor, standard software (not professional apps) shouldn't be hundreds of dollars. Heck they shouldn't even be $100.

Apple and MS are going to both get rolled over by the same stone. We shouldn't complain on one hand that Apple should be able to charge $2500 for a mid-level performance tower and the not expect to really pay MS's price for Office.

Nick

[pioneer]

If you're hell bent on giving microsoft their "fair share" then you can always order a single site, multi user copy of office. That's what we did at work and, strangely enough, it ended up being even cheaper than retail. This was because if you buy the single site multiuser license you don't get any fancy packaging or documentation. This was for Office XP. We're using office in our business so we couldn't be caught using pirated software, but in the case of a home user I'd just recommend getting another serial number.


As for that "fair share" part... I think 95% of the entire computer OS market is a tad more than their "fair share". The DOJ seemed to share this opinion as well. If they want to illegaly hold a monopoly over the entire market then I don't feel the slightest shread of guilt from pirating their software for my own use.

[Kesh]

My biggest complaint isn't the registration restrictions or even the price of Office. It's the price of individual office components.

Think about it: there are 4 main apps in Office v.X (Word, Excel, Powerpoint & Entourage). Yet, if I wanted to only purchase Word, I'm still going to pay about $399 (retail) compared to $499 (retail) for Office in its entirety. Shouldn't 1/4 of a software package at least only cost 1/3 to 1/2 the price?

[Escher]

[quote]Originally posted by Kesh:
<strong>Think about it: there are 4 main apps in Office v.X (Word, Excel, Powerpoint & Entourage). Yet, if I wanted to only purchase Word, I'm still going to pay about $399 (retail) compared to $499 (retail) for Office in its entirety. Shouldn't 1/4 of a software package at least only cost 1/3 to 1/2 the price?</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's just more smart marketing. For only $100 more, you get three additional apps. Plus Microsoft gets to put four times more bloatware on your hard drive. I suspect that the vast majority of customers buy the entire Office suite, even though they have absolutely no need for PowerPoint, Excel or even Entourage.

Case in point: I bought the entire Office suite, even though I use Word 95% of the time, barely touch Excel more than once a month, have never started up PowerPoint and didn't even bother to install Entourage. Of course, I took advantage of the more affordable $200 educational price.

Escher

[ 12-10-2001: Message edited by: Escher ]</p>

[fuzz_ball]

I agree with many that have posted here (both sides of the issue). However, I do find it interesting that no one has brought up one particular issue: LAN/Internet bandwidth use.

I personally am further annoyed that software companies feel that can chew up my bandwidth without my consent. Further, that they don't provide me a way of limiting or turning it off. While a company has a right to protect its revenue stream, it doesn't have a right to my resources (except for the money I pay them for the license of course).

As we move into the future, and our homes become wired personal LANs permanently connected to the Internet (unless you don't pay your bill :) ), with who knows what running on them, and more companies adopt tactics like Microsoft's, how are you going to feel if all that "license sniffing" bandwidth traffic interferes in your quiet enjoyment of a "pay-per-view" movie that you are streaming real-time?

I don't care if the traffic generated by this one app doesn't congest my home LAN, it's the thought of tens, or hundreds, of these types of things chewing up my precious bandwidth. I think people should voice their opinions of this type of practice. Disable it at home (if you can) and complain to any company that uses this type of tactic.

Remember, one or two banner ads or pop-ups didn't sound too bad just 4 years ago, but look at what a headache they can be now...