More bad news out of Iraq... [Archive]

trumptman

10-18-2007, 11:43 AM

Cemetary workers feeling the pinch (http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20071016/wl_mcclatchy/20071016bcusiraqcemetery_attn_national_foreign_edi tors_ytop)

Showing that there are no depths low enough to plumb for bad new out of Iraq, the media, who can't report on schools opening, violence going down, General Petraeus being right and other assorted bits of news instead have to note that the financial well being of grave diggers is on the decline due to lower violence and death rates.

A drop in violence around Iraq has cut burials in the huge Wadi al Salam cemetery here by at least one-third in the past six months, and that's cut the pay of thousands of workers who make their living digging graves, washing corpses or selling burial shrouds.

I think swallowing my own vomit is more tasteful than this.

Nick

screener

10-18-2007, 11:56 AM

Cemetary workers feeling the pinch (http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20071016/wl_mcclatchy/20071016bcusiraqcemetery_attn_national_foreign_edi tors_ytop)

Showing that there are no depths low enough to plumb for bad new out of Iraq, the media, who can't report on schools opening, violence going down, General Petraeus being right and other assorted bits of news instead have to note that the financial well being of grave diggers is on the decline due to lower violence and death rates.

I think swallowing my own vomit is more tasteful than this.

Nick

Isn't this good news?

Who better to ask than those digging the graves in this particular cemetery.

Why don't you start a thread with nothing but good news out of Iraq?

segovius

10-18-2007, 12:25 PM

This is a quote from the article:

Shiites feel so strongly about being buried here that when it's too dangerous to travel, families have buried their loved ones elsewhere temporarily, then disinterred them for reburial here.

Which could easily mean that the violence has actually gone UP and that this is the real reason for the lack of burials.

And another thing; if so, is this not an article which is - contrary to the OP's claim - actually trying to spin this as good news?

@_@ Artman

10-18-2007, 12:37 PM

I think trumptman's comment should be interpreted as up to his neck in vomit-er-sarcasm.

Anyway, this hot CBS news reporter Lara Logan has something to say,

We’re doing extremely badly, from my point of view. I was asked if I felt any guilt for the fact that the world has an impression of the war in Iraq as being very bad and going very wrong. And I said I really don’t because I can’t imagine the last time anyone saw a dead American soldier. We’ve hidden that from view. Nobody knows what that looks like, and I’ve seen plenty of it. It’s much worse than the picture, the image we even have of Iraq.

Logan is one of the few US reporters who is sticking their ass (cute one I must say) into the fray and going places where no reporter has gone before. Maybe being born in South Africa during Apartheid and 16 years reporting helps.

Link to video.
(http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/16/cbs-logan-were-doing-extremely-badly-in-iraq/)

trumptman

10-18-2007, 12:57 PM

Isn't this good news?

Who better to ask than those digging the graves in this particular cemetery.

Why don't you start a thread with nothing but good news out of Iraq?

Well it would be good news, unless you choose to report on it from the perspective of the grave diggers so you can spin it as bad news.

It's sort of like when you report unemployment as 4.7% but then claim everyone has three jobs in the same sentence.

This is a quote from the article:

Which could easily mean that the violence has actually gone UP and that this is the real reason for the lack of burials.

And another thing; if so, is this not an article which is - contrary to the OP's claim - actually trying to spin this as good news?

So let me understand the reasoning here. The point would be to spin the increase in violence away by using financial hardship as a distraction. Interesting premise.

I think trumptman's comment should be interpreted as up to his neck in vomit-er-sarcasm.

Tongue is a bit in cheek, but I don't know if I would call it sarcasm.

Logan is one of the few US reporters who is sticking their ass (cute one I must say) into the fray and going places where no reporter has gone before. Maybe being born in South Africa during Apartheid and 16 years reporting helps.

While I appreciate your point Artman, I really don't recall the media ever showing the dead much before or with any sort of graphic detail in the past. Reporting is more varied and has more outlets than ever before. The information is always out there. The only thing that really matters is if people want to find it or have it spoon fed to them.

But what can we expect when the leading Democratic nominee for president was "lied" to by Bush because she was unwilling to read an intelligence report available to her and thus voted as he (and she) wanted.

Someday we will realize that people seek what they want, and ignore or don't seek that which they don't want. When people don't go looking for an intelligence report to find information to change their vote, it is because they already have the rationales they need to vote as they want.

Nick

segovius

10-18-2007, 01:06 PM

While I appreciate your point Artman, I really don't recall the media ever showing the dead much before or with any sort of graphic detail in the past. Reporting is more varied and has more outlets than ever before.

Which is why the 'approved' reporters need to be embedded. In a world of 'freedom' it is ever harder to control what people hear.

And remember; the dead are Shi'ites and there are US plans to kill a whole lot more Shi'ites in Iran so it's not politic to mention it too much. People might empathize with them - unlikely but the risk is there, however remote.

Flounder

10-18-2007, 01:21 PM

Well it would be good news, unless you choose to report on it from the perspective of the grave diggers so you can spin it as bad news.

I really have to question if you even read the whole article you linked too with any degree of care. I think that's an incredible mis-characterization of the article's content.

@_@ Artman

10-18-2007, 01:38 PM

While I appreciate your point Artman, I really don't recall the media ever showing the dead much before or with any sort of graphic detail in the past. Reporting is more varied and has more outlets than ever before. The information is always out there. The only thing that really matters is if people want to find it or have it spoon fed to them.
Nick

I guess you didn't grow up during the Vietnam war. Where on the front pages of newspapers there were photos of dead soldiers in body bags, in coffins and being delivered back home. Or the photo reports in Time, Life or Look magazine on the My Lai Massacre or burnt children running from their napalmed village. Even the daily body counts on the evening news gave some the impression that we were winning the war. Though later we found out that was false too.

The Internet has changed the view in what we see in the world and in Iraq. Never before have people been able to read and even witness the carnage and failure this occupation is. But as there was ignorant blindness during Vietnam (Silent Majority) so there is in the mainstream media itself. It's all bought and paid for. And unfortunately it seems the Internet may well be too someday.

SpamSandwich

10-18-2007, 01:41 PM

I think trumptman's comment should be interpreted as up to his neck in vomit-er-sarcasm.

Anyway, this hot CBS news reporter Lara Logan has something to say,

Logan is one of the few US reporters who is sticking their ass (cute one I must say) into the fray and going places where no reporter has gone before. Maybe being born in South Africa during Apartheid and 16 years reporting helps.

Link to video.
(http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/16/cbs-logan-were-doing-extremely-badly-in-iraq/)

Lara Logan is a saucy little devil. She must be a real adrenaline junkie. I liked Ashleigh Banfield also... wonder what happened to her?

trumptman

10-18-2007, 02:45 PM

Which is why the 'approved' reporters need to be embedded. In a world of 'freedom' it is ever harder to control what people hear.

And remember; the dead are Shi'ites and there are US plans to kill a whole lot more Shi'ites in Iran so it's not politic to mention it too much. People might empathize with them - unlikely but the risk is there, however remote.

First good discussion. I find it interesting how you and Artman come at this from two different angles. It makes for interesting reading. You believe the embedded reporters/propaganda reporters are minimizing the reporting of violence and death with regard to Shi'ites to help the Bush administration along with their goal of killing more of them. Art believes they are not reporting on our own military deaths to support, I suppose the continuation of the war as well. I guess the end goal is the same but the premises are different. You two huddle together and put them together for me.

I really have to question if you even read the whole article you linked too with any degree of care. I think that's an incredible mis-characterization of the article's content.

I guess the person who wrote the headline misread it as well. I guess believing that the article reflects the headline "As violence falls in Iraq, cemetery workers feel the pinch,"
is just ludicrous.

I respect the fact that even if Seg and Art disagree with what I have posted, they address it substantively instead of just claiming that I can't read or believe what the words actually say.

I guess you didn't grow up during the Vietnam war. Where on the front pages of newspapers there were photos of dead soldiers in body bags, in coffins and being delivered back home. Or the photo reports in Time, Life or Look magazine on the My Lai Massacre or burnt children running from their napalmed village. Even the daily body counts on the evening news gave some the impression that we were winning the war. Though later we found out that was false too.

The Internet has changed the view in what we see in the world and in Iraq. Never before have people been able to read and even witness the carnage and failure this occupation is. But as there was ignorant blindness during Vietnam (Silent Majority) so there is in the mainstream media itself. It's all bought and paid for. And unfortunately it seems the Internet may well be too someday.

You are correct that having been born in 1970, I didn't witness Vietnam coverage first hand, or if I did, I was too young to understand and comprehend it. Vietnam coverage was the exception rather than the norm when compared to all military conflicts the U.S. has engaged in.

That said, while I can concede that a picture is worth a thousand words, they have more than printed the thousand negative words while contributing almost nothing positive. We can have thousands of hours of coverage about whether General Petraeus is a lying Bush drone, but no or next to no coverage about the fact that his numbers were accurate for example. If the government is engaging in propaganda via hiding the body bags, I can buy that assertion. I just find it harder to believe the media is aiding and abetting when there is no feel good, all is well, we are doing great news in place of the body bags.

Nick

Flounder

10-18-2007, 03:14 PM

I guess the person who wrote the headline misread it as well. I guess believing that the article reflects the headline "As violence falls in Iraq, cemetery workers feel the pinch,"
is just ludicrous.

I respect the fact that even if Seg and Art disagree with what I have posted, they address it substantively instead of just claiming that I can't read or believe what the words actually say.

Now you are mis characterizing my statements. I would certainly agree that the title is not a good one, and doesn't reflect the thrust of the article's content.

I'm not questioning your reading ability or comprehension in any way. I would speculate that you probably saw the title, read the first paragraph and simply drew your conclusion based upon a desire to be disgusted at the "liberal media." Or perhaps you just decided to take the quote out of context and feign outrage, I don't know.

The main thrust of the article seems to be a history of these cemetery workers over the years, through the ebs and flows of violence within their country, how they have a sense of the death rate, how the funerals work and being within the odd position of worsening violence in your country being good for you personally.

I just don't see how a reasonable person could get out this article "The liberal media hates the war so much and wants to see us fail so badly, they'll even try to make less violence look bad"

That's the interpretation you seem to have taken from the article, and I think it's bizarre.

I personally found the article really interesting.

@_@ Artman

10-18-2007, 03:31 PM

Good News Iraq - Nothing But the Good News (http://goodnewsiraq.com/index2.htm) :D

Literature of Freedom : Good News In Iraq (http://www.dfn.org/good_news_iraq.shtml) :)

Northgate

10-18-2007, 03:44 PM

Cemetary workers feeling the pinch (http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20071016/wl_mcclatchy/20071016bcusiraqcemetery_attn_national_foreign_edi tors_ytop)

Showing that there are no depths low enough to plumb for bad new out of Iraq, the media, who can't report on schools opening, violence going down, General Petraeus being right and other assorted bits of news instead have to note that the financial well being of grave diggers is on the decline due to lower violence and death rates.

I think swallowing my own vomit is more tasteful than this.

Nick

Schools opening? That old canard again? Please.

Violence is going down? You can't possibly be serious with that statement.

Betrayus was right? Yeah, right about being what Admiral Fallon calls "an ass-kissing little chickenshit." The brown noser should be ashamed of himself.

Aries 1B

10-18-2007, 08:17 PM

Betrayus was right? Yeah, right about being what Admiral Fallon calls "an ass-kissing little chickenshit." The brown noser should be ashamed of himself.

Please supply a link to the above quote attributed to Admiral Fallon? Thank you very much.

V/R,
Aries 1B

@_@ Artman

10-19-2007, 09:43 AM

Please supply a link to the above quote attributed to Admiral Fallon? Thank you very much.

V/R,
Aries 1B

Fallon told Petraeus that he considered him to be "an ass-kissing little chickenshit" and added, "I hate people like that", the sources say. That remark reportedly came after Petraeus began the meeting by making remarks that Fallon interpreted as trying to ingratiate himself with a superior.

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=39235

trumptman

10-19-2007, 10:23 AM

Good News Iraq - Nothing But the Good News (http://goodnewsiraq.com/index2.htm) :D

Literature of Freedom : Good News In Iraq (http://www.dfn.org/good_news_iraq.shtml) :)

Good job. Now all you have to do is show how those embedded reporters, you know the ones who are the purveyors of propaganda, are passing on that news and filling the mainstream press with it.

/sarc
Oh wait... you mean we have to go to a completely unrelated website since those mainstream folks wouldn't report on any of that even if held at gun point?.

/sarc off

Yeah that was sort of the point of the thread.

We could be reading "Air Force C-17 Crews Make Record Airdrop." Is it a bit mundane and boring? I suppose it could be if we had ever read it before. Could it be labeled as propaganda instead of reporting on the "real" war. I suppose if it were the only thing published and somehow managed to crowd out the running tallies of dead, claimed civilian death estimates, costs, etc. that are filling the pages daily.

If anything though, even if it is nothing but filler, it is the type of filler we have not seen and instead our filler is "Grave diggers feel economic sting."

Nothing positive is reported on this war unless it is an accident. Even the shovels of grave diggers being idled is portrayed in a negative light.l

Nick

@_@ Artman

10-19-2007, 10:43 AM

Thing is trumptman the embedded reporters were shooed away before the surge and many haven't been called back since. There has been a news blackout since early summer. Either because it became too dangerous or the news wasn't "good enough" for the administration or even the media.

There have been accomplishments, not not as many as the failures either.

I just checked all of the American MSM news sites online and there isn't much front page news on Iraq, mainly because of the "Al Qaeda/Taliban" Bhutto bombing.

It's all IRANIRANIRAN too...:no:

segovius

10-19-2007, 10:53 AM

I just checked all of the American MSM news sites online and there isn't much front page news on Iraq, mainly because of the "Al Qaeda/Taliban" Bhutto bombing.

It's all IRANIRANIRAN too...:no:

Well, they won't tie the Bhutto attack to Iran as she is still alive to say she knows it was not 'al Qaeda' but factions from within the Musharaf camp.

Whether it can be traced to him is another story but you can bet your @ss that if she had dies the 'al Qaeda' connection would be Holy Writ and would be tied to Iran.

Looks like they'll have to try something else.

And Musharaf will get to start bashing heads of anyone who opposes him whether an 'extremist' or not. Again.

trumptman

10-19-2007, 11:02 AM

Well obviously Iraq isn't on the front page right now. We have more important things (http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/10/19/people.degeneres.ap/index.html) to worry about right?

Nick

@_@ Artman

10-19-2007, 11:06 AM

Well obviously Iraq isn't on the front page right now. We have more important things (http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/10/19/people.degeneres.ap/index.html) to worry about right?

Nick

Wow, Ellen's girl-toy is HOT. Anyway, at least they tracked down that "swirly-guy" in Thailand, eh?

I mean if they could track him down, how come we haven't gotten Bin Laden?

At home I don't have cable or television connectivity at all since 2003, so all this drivel rears it's head on here or on FARK...:rolleyes:

@_@ Artman

10-19-2007, 11:44 AM

Iraq to Cheney: ‘Big fat no’ on bases in Iraq. (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/18/iraq-to-cheney-big-fat-no-on-bases-in-iraq/)

The people of Iraq, the parliament, the council of representatives and the government of Iraq, they all say no, big fat no, N-O for the bases in Iraq. No military bases for Iraq because we believe that is in direct encroachment to our soveriegnty, and we don’t need it.

http://www.obliquity65.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/102406.jpg

That's gotta sting; creating several permanent bases in Iraq to "extend power from" was one of the Project For a New American Century's (PNAC) primary goals for the invasion.

Jubelum

10-19-2007, 11:47 AM

"One item from Baghdad today. The news is... that there is no news. The police told us that, to their knowledge, there were no major acts of violence. Attacks are down in Baghdad and today no bombings or roadside explosions were reported." -Charlie Gibson, World News Tonight

I bet someone at ABC is looking for a job this morning. You just can't say stuff like that, especially after the Surge. This is MoveOn heresy of the highest degree.

I'm personally surprised that they did not just go ahead and run some old video of smoking craters, screaming mothers, and buildings collapsing over the Red Sox box scores, just out of habit.

@_@ Artman

10-19-2007, 12:02 PM

I bet someone at ABC is looking for a job this morning. You just can't say stuff like that, especially after the Surge. This is MoveOn heresy of the highest degree.

I'm personally surprised that they did not just go ahead and run some old video of smoking craters, screaming mothers, and buildings collapsing over the Red Sox box scores, just out of habit.

Bad news doesn't have to be bombings and dead bodies it can be policy (see my previous post) or business dealings like this one...

Iraq awards contracts to Iran and China (http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/18/africa/18grid.php???)

Iraq has agreed to award $1.1 billion in contracts to Iranian and Chinese companies to build a pair of enormous power plants, the Iraqi electricity minister said Tuesday. Word of the project prompted serious concerns among American military officials, who fear that Iranian commercial investments can mask military activities at a time of heightened tension with Iran.

Face it. Iraq doesn't want our military or our business. Yankees go home.

Jubelum

10-19-2007, 12:07 PM

Bad news doesn't have to be bombings and dead bodies

<wipes forehead> Whew. Glad we didn't miss a day. :\

@_@ Artman

10-19-2007, 12:18 PM

<wipes forehead> Whew. Glad we didn't miss a day. :\

I like your sarcasm, but you seem to maybe missing the point. They don't want us there anymore and honestly I think it's time to get out while the going's good...or bad whatever the case may be...:err:

Jubelum

10-19-2007, 01:50 PM

I like your sarcasm, but you seem to maybe missing the point. They don't want us there anymore and honestly I think it's time to get out while the going's good...or bad whatever the case may be...:err:

... and as soon as they can take up the responsibility and prove that their police and military can handle the task, we should leave on the early bus and be home by dinner.

I'm interested in how this Iraq base thing is going to work out...

Northgate

10-19-2007, 02:12 PM

... and as soon as they can take up the responsibility and prove that their police and military can handle the task...

Handle what task? I thought things were peachy now. No news to tell. The surge worked. Betrayus was right. And so on...

I mean, shit, schools are opening and stuff.

Jubelum

10-19-2007, 02:34 PM

Handle what task? I thought things were peachy now. No news to tell. The surge worked. Betrayus was right. And so on...

I mean, shit, schools are opening and stuff.

Lazy. Incredibly lazy. :rolleyes:

addabox

10-19-2007, 05:01 PM

Lazy. Incredibly lazy. :rolleyes:

Yeah, and wondering how "not bad news" slipped past vetting by MoveOn is the height of serious engagement.

Jubelum

10-19-2007, 05:37 PM

Yeah, and wondering how "not bad news" slipped past vetting by MoveOn is the height of serious engagement.

Handle what task? I thought things were peachy now. No news to tell. The surge worked. Betrayus was right. And so on...

I mean, shit, schools are opening and stuff.

My snark regarding MoveOn was obvious hyperbole. No one believes that MoveOn is vetting the news. (They have their willing accomplices at the NYT and AP to do that!;))

It's intellectually lazy to ask "what task" - it's a strawman- there is work yet to be done there, and still things that the Iraqis should be doing soon that we are doing now. No one has said things are "peachy," there are stories that still need to be told, yes the surge worked and the General was right. :p

There are tasks (security, etc) even here in the United States. Those "tasks" are just part of running a country.

Northgate

10-19-2007, 08:04 PM

Lazy. Incredibly lazy. :rolleyes:

An odd statement coming from the king of sarcasm...

Jubelum

10-20-2007, 12:35 AM

An odd statement coming from the king of sarcasm...

What does my sarcasm have to do with your missing the point with the "I thought things were just peachy" post? Let's start over and try again. How about this for starters:

Things are not "just peachy" but there is good news. NO one has said things are "peachy" or "easy" or "vacation destination." Killings are down, stability seems to be improving, and fewer US soldiers are being harmed than before. There is still work to be done in Iraq. Lots of work. Iraqis need to start doing internal security just like every other nation on earth, with both domestic law enforcement and a military. The sooner we make them get their act together, the sooner we can start bringing people home.

Jubelum

10-20-2007, 04:58 AM

It's too late, Jube. The surge needed to come sooner. There's no way we can sustain our troop levels through 2009 without either a draft or extreme stopgap measures that would dramatically increase the already alarming rate of attrition even further and ruin the military for a generation. Without current troop levels Iraq will descend into chaos. There's nothing we can do at this point to turn things around permanently. We have to start planning for the inevitable withdrawal. Whether we want to kill another 1000 or so US soldiers while we postpone the inevitable is the question.

Wow. That's a lot of info. Any place I can refer to, such that I can make the same case?

segovius

10-20-2007, 05:38 AM

Wow. That's a lot of info. Any place I can refer to, such that I can make the same case?

:???:

@_@ Artman

10-20-2007, 07:57 AM

Wow. That's a lot of info. Any place I can refer to, such that I can make the same case?

There were 12 former Army captains that said exactly that. (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/16/soldiers-institute-a-draft-or-withdraw-from-iraq-now/)

As Army captains who served in Baghdad and beyond, we’ve seen the corruption and the sectarian division. We understand what it’s like to be stretched too thin. And we know when it’s time to get out. […]

To continue an operation of this intensity and duration, we would have to abandon our volunteer military for compulsory service. Short of that, our best option is to leave Iraq immediately. A scaled withdrawal will not prevent a civil war, and it will spend more blood and treasure on a losing proposition.

America, it has been five years. It’s time to make a choice.

Original Washington Post article by the Army captains. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/15/AR2007101500841.html)

Also there's Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez's "a nightmare with no end in sight (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/washington/12cnd-general.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)" link...

Northgate

10-20-2007, 06:05 PM

What does my sarcasm have to do with your missing the point with the "I thought things were just peachy" post? Let's start over and try again. How about this for starters:

Things are not "just peachy" but there is good news. NO one has said things are "peachy" or "easy" or "vacation destination." Killings are down, stability seems to be improving, and fewer US soldiers are being harmed than before. There is still work to be done in Iraq. Lots of work. Iraqis need to start doing internal security just like every other nation on earth, with both domestic law enforcement and a military. The sooner we make them get their act together, the sooner we can start bringing people home.

AGAIN you miss the point. I was being SARCASTIC. I thought you, of all people, would've gotten that considering you are the absolute king of sarcasm and snark around here! Jesus.

jimmac

10-20-2007, 09:20 PM

Handle what task? I thought things were peachy now. No news to tell. The surge worked. Betrayus was right. And so on...

I mean, shit, schools are opening and stuff.

Yeah! I thought everything was fine so which is it?;)

Or maybe it's only fine when he's making that argument?;)

Jubelum

10-20-2007, 10:35 PM

Yeah! I thought everything was fine so which is it?;)
Or maybe it's only fine when he's making that argument?;)

In your dotage, do you know how to read? I never said it was fine, but hey, this is coming from you, jimmac, so never to worry. You are the poster boy for the laziness I am referring to.*

*this post has been Pounce-Delayed for 10 minutes to "let you finish", before I get chided for not having a life for posting on a message board by someone else, who themselves is on the same message board.*

trumptman

10-22-2007, 11:30 AM

segovius

10-22-2007, 11:41 AM

@_@ Artman

10-22-2007, 11:55 AM

Resistance is futile... you will be misinformed. (http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/resistance-is-futile.htm)
Michael Yon, a basically self-embedded reporter goes on a bit of a well deserved rant about the massive disconnect between what is actually happening in Iraq and the reporting in the United States.

I was struck by this passage in particular...
This is why so many articles, some which I have highlighted here as showing bias, refuse to start with the new information first. They have to repeat, reaffirm and insure you know the false narrative for the story before they can add any new information. They must think for you lest you think for yourself.

Nick

We’re doing extremely badly, from my point of view. I was asked if I felt any guilt for the fact that the world has an impression of the war in Iraq as being very bad and going very wrong. And I said I really don’t because I can’t imagine the last time anyone saw a dead American soldier. We’ve hidden that from view. Nobody knows what that looks like, and I’ve seen plenty of it. It’s much worse than the picture, the image we even have of Iraq. - CBS news reporter Lara Logan (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/16/cbs-logan-were-doing-extremely-badly-in-iraq/)

It's not bias. It's censorship or lack of newsworthiness. Depends on whom is doing the reporting and what is newsworthy.

So far, I have not seen one scintilla of coverage on Blackwater's departure from Iraq. But they are leaving. You just have to go elsewhere for that news (http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/23108). By the way Iraqupdates.com is one of the latest sites that offer good reportage on what is happening in Iraq.

Iraq is a non-issue right now (except for the Turkey/PKK...which will eventually head to the front page). You have the Iran propaganda going full force here and in Israel. And CNN would rather show you the wildfires in California instead.

Maybe the press is baffled, but I'll give you my mindset as far as Iraq is concerned...

The Blackwater departure is good news. Iraqis are sick of the Americans, in uniform or not. They don't want permanent U.S. Military bases (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/18/iraq-to-cheney-big-fat-no-on-bases-in-iraq/) or want to deal with us in their business affairs (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/iraqi-electricity-deals-with-iran-china-irk-us/2007/10/18/1192300951760.html). This could be the real sense of authority the government needed to show us and the Iraqi people.

mojo2

10-29-2007, 06:13 PM

http://icasualties.org/oif/stats.aspx

There were 9 U.S. fatalities in Iraq last week. Three of them non-combat related.

Don't try to tell me things aren't getting better.

@_@ Artman

10-29-2007, 08:19 PM

http://icasualties.org/oif/stats.aspx

There were 9 U.S. fatalities in Iraq last week. Three of them non-combat related.

Don't try to tell me things aren't getting better.

You're absolutely right. Yet civilian bomb deaths, killings and kidnappings continue (http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1029/p99s01-duts.html). Honestly, I think the drop in U.S. casualties comes from the fact that the soldiers are deliberately avoiding the dangers (http://alternet.org/waroniraq/66160/).

Low Morale Has U.S. Troops in Iraq Pretending to Patrol

New York -- Iraq war veterans now stationed at a base here in upstate New York say that morale among US soldiers in the country is so poor, many are simply parking their Humvees and pretending to be on patrol, a practice dubbed "search and avoid" missions.

Phil Aliff is an active duty soldier with the 10th Mountain Division stationed at Fort Drum. He served nearly one year in Iraq from August 2005 to July 2006, in the areas of Abu Ghraib and Fallujah, both west of Baghdad.

"Morale was incredibly low," said Aliff, adding that he joined the military because he was raised in a poor family by a single mother and had few other prospects. "Most men in my platoon in Iraq were just in from combat tours in Afghanistan."

According to Aliff, their mission was to help the Iraqi army "stand up" in the Abu Ghraib area of western Baghdad, but in fact his platoon was doing all the fighting without support from the Iraqis they were supposedly preparing to take control of the security situation.

"I never heard of an Iraqi unit that was able to operate on their own," said Aliff, who is now a member of the group Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW). "The only reason we were replaced by an Iraqi army unit was for publicity."

Aliff said he participated in roughly 300 patrols. "We were hit by so many roadside bombs we became incredibly demoralized, so we decided the only way we wouldn't be blown up was to avoid driving around all the time."

"So we would go find an open field and park, and call our base every hour to tell them we were searching for weapons caches in the fields and doing weapons patrols and everything was going fine," he said, adding, "All our enlisted people became very disenchanted with our chain of command."

Jubelum

10-29-2007, 09:01 PM

You're absolutely right. Yet civilian bomb deaths, killings and kidnappings continue (http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1029/p99s01-duts.html). Honestly, I think the drop in U.S. casualties comes from the fact that the soldiers are deliberately avoiding the dangers (http://alternet.org/waroniraq/66160/).

The goalpost moves again. People die in war zones. Fewer and fewer are dying, and that sucks for those who need a defeat in Iraq... like I dunno... Nancy and Harry and Ted and Jack.

And if the lack of patrols were leading to the whole thing coming unwound, you can bet we'd be hearing about it.

You said it first and correctly... We're never leaving.

screener

10-29-2007, 09:42 PM

The goalpost moves again. People die in war zones. Fewer and fewer are dying, and that sucks for those who need a defeat in Iraq... like I dunno... Nancy and Harry and Ted and Jack.

And if the lack of patrols were leading to the whole thing coming unwound, you can bet we'd be hearing about it.

You said it first and correctly... We're never leaving.

They need a defeat?

You're getting to be more and more like SDW, which isn't really surprising, unsupported assertions and all.

Jubelum

10-29-2007, 09:45 PM

They need a defeat?
.

Do you understand anything about politics? Do you know what US victory and good news from Iraq would do/is doing to the entire three years of Democrat talking points?

screener

10-29-2007, 10:43 PM

Do you understand anything about politics? Do you know what US victory and good news from Iraq would do/is doing to the entire three years of Democrat talking points?

Yeah, you'll elect a Republican that will start another war in the Middle East.

I don't think they need help.

Northgate

10-29-2007, 10:51 PM

WOOOT! GO RUDY!

WAR! WAR! WAR!

Nothing will make me happier than a football game on TV, a nice big juicy steak, and a war with a bunch of dead Iranians on Fox News!

WOOT!

:mad:

Jubelum

10-29-2007, 11:49 PM

Yeah, you'll elect a Republican

I think we have swerved into the truth. This has everything to do with electoral politics. Which is why no dem in the hunt will say 100% that they will withdraw from Iraq.

@_@ Artman

10-30-2007, 12:34 PM

I think we have swerved into the truth. This has everything to do with electoral politics. Which is why no dem in the hunt will say 100% that they will withdraw from Iraq.

I didn’t realize Hillary has been President since 2000 (http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/change-election-by-digby-i-dont-know-if.html)

I don’t know if anyone’s noticed, but George W. Bush is being disappeared from the presidential campaign and everyone’s running against incumbent Hillary Clinton. Subtly, but relentlessly, the public psyche is being prepared to deny Junior ever existed. And it could work…

I certainly don’t blame the Republicans for trying to do it. It makes sense, since their boy is an epic failure and the original Clinton is still very present in people’s minds. It will be quite a trick to pull off, but I can see the press already helping them do it. (Naturally.) It’s an interesting phenomenon and one for which I hope the Democratic strategists are prepared. Their underlying theme seems to be, “If you want change, vote Republican!”

Bad news of another kind from Iraq...

Iraqi dam 'at risk of collapse' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7069109.stm)

The largest dam in Iraq is at risk of an imminent collapse that could unleash a 20m (65ft) wave of water on Mosul, a city of 1.7m people, the US has warned.

In May, the US told Iraqi authorities to make Mosul Dam a national priority, as a catastrophic failure would result in a "significant loss of life".

However, a $27m (£13m) US-funded reconstruction project to help shore up the dam has made little or no progress.

Iraq says it is reducing the risk and insists there is no cause for alarm.

However, a US watchdog said reconstruction of the dam had been plagued by mismanagement and potential fraud.

jimmac

10-31-2007, 09:49 AM

Yeah, you'll elect a Republican that will start another war in the Middle East.

I don't think they need help.

Yup!;)

jimmac

10-31-2007, 09:51 AM

WOOOT! GO RUDY!

WAR! WAR! WAR!

Nothing will make me happier than a football game on TV, a nice big juicy steak, and a war with a bunch of dead Iranians on Fox News!

WOOT!

:mad:

You forgot the Beer! Very important for true armchair generals!

jimmac

10-31-2007, 09:55 AM

trumptman

10-31-2007, 12:08 PM

I didn’t realize Hillary has been President since 2000 (http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/change-election-by-digby-i-dont-know-if.html)

Bad news of another kind from Iraq...

Iraqi dam 'at risk of collapse' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7069109.stm)

You know Artman, I think you are failing to see the irony here. It is profoundly EASY to find bad news on Iraq.

Here is some good news...

US Deaths lowest in 18 months. (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/world/iraq/bal-te.iraq31oct31001524,0,6312177.story)

As of last night, 36 U.S. military fatalities had been reported in October, compared with 65 in September and an average of 83.6 per month since January. That is the lowest monthly total since March 2006, when 31 American troops died, according to icasualties.org, an independent Web site whose monthly counts include troops killed in action as well as nonhostile deaths.

Good luck finding what should be front page good news on any major site.

Nick

@_@ Artman

10-31-2007, 12:46 PM

You know Artman, I think you are failing to see the obviousness here. It is profoundly EASY to find bad news on Iraq.

Here is some good news...

US Deaths lowest in 18 months. (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/world/iraq/bal-te.iraq31oct31001524,0,6312177.story)

Good luck finding what should be front page good news on any major site.

Nick

Fixed that.

I'm starting to think that we have (oh, I don't want to use this...) "turned the corner" in Iraq. Soldier's deaths are down. Whether that's because of the weather, soldiers lack of motivation or decrease in insurgency doesn't matter. The Iraqi government is starting to grow a pair of balls. They are becoming more self-reliant, open to discussion and debate with their counterparts and drumming up business deals. With or without the help of this administration.

They have a long way to go (civilian deaths by insurgents and death squads continue and the infrastructure is in a shambles) but they seem to realize now that the US isn't going to play a part in their future and want to be on their own. Their alliances with Russia, China, Italy and Iran prove that.

More websites to check out...

Iraqi Updates

http://www.iraqupdates.com/index.php

Iraqi American Chamber of Commerce and Industry

http://www.i-acci.org/

Kurdistan Development Corporation Limited

http://www.kurdistancorporation.com/

Let's see what happens...

@_@ Artman

10-31-2007, 02:22 PM

Has the Surge Reached Its Limits? (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1677822,00.html)

Last week Lt. Gen. Raymond Odierno, the U.S. ground commander in Iraq, sat before reporters with his Iraqi counterpart, Lt. Gen. Abud Qanbar. The two tallied their gains in Baghdad against Sunni extremists and Shi'ite militia fighters over the last nine months. Qanbar ticked off statistics: Car bombs down 65%; civilian deaths from car bombs decreased by 80%; attacks against Iraqi security dropped by 62%. Also, the monthly death toll from sectarian violence nationwide for October is expected to be the lowest since February 2006, when sectarian killings spread rapidly after the bombing of a Shi'ite shrine in Samarra. Data offered by Iraq's ministries for defense, interior and health show that 285 Iraqis died in sectarian violence in October. At its peak last year, the monthly death toll for sectarian violence in Iraq was nearly 2,000.

"The real indicator of improved security for me is how Iraqi people feel," Odierno said. "And whenever I travel around Baghdad Iraqis tell me how much safer they feel in their neighborhoods."

...

The unmentioned reasons behind the slow actions of Maliki's government range from deeply ingrained sectarianism in Iraqi security forces to incompetence and graft among government officials. That has left a feeble Iraqi government clearly unable to maintain and further the gains in security made with the help of U.S. surge forces, which are set to dwindle in the months ahead according to the original surge plan.

The prognosis for Iraq, barring a dynamic transformation on the part of the Iraqi government very soon, is grimly apparent. As U.S. forces lessen their presence in the coming months, killings of the kind seen Monday in Diyala will persist there and most likely spread to areas calmed by the increase of U.S. forces. Rising Shi'ite militia unrest in southern Iraq will go on unchecked, leaving the fate of Iraq's richest and most populous territory uncertain. Recently subdued Anbar Province will operate as a kind of Sunni semi-independent emirate, barring any meaningful administration from a central government, much as the northern Kurdish territory already does. And Baghdad will be on edge, watching for signs that the relative calm in the city may be giving way to another wave of violence.

Also...

GAO: Reduction In Violence Due To ‘Ethnically Cleansed Neighborhoods’ In Iraq (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/30/sigir-report-oct07/)

I think that’s [ethnic cleansing] an important consideration in even assessing the overall security situation in Iraq. You know, we look at the attack data going down, but it’s not taking into consideration that there might be fewer attacks because you have ethnically cleansed neighborhoods, particularly in the Baghdad area. […]

screener

10-31-2007, 11:51 PM

Do you think this will be true when the MSM reports this?

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8E7B6E54-EBE1-4B7B-811D-DB98DE1C4F14.htm
Amid warnings that southern Iraq could erupt into civil war when British troops withdraw, Basra's chief of police has publicly admitted that his forces have been unable to clamp down on growing militia warfare in the city.
In recent months, rival Shia factions have been battling for control of the city which is considered the second largest in the country and home to Iraq's only port.
This makes the Basra a vital outlet to the Gulf for marine transportation of oil and fuel products – a lucrative prize for any political faction looking to consolidate its power in Baghdad.

@_@ Artman

11-01-2007, 09:00 AM

http://www.stampandshout.org/_gfx/_bst/_ex/iraq-iran.gif

screener

11-01-2007, 01:07 PM

I guess the good news coming out of Iraq doesn't resonate among some diplomats.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/stories/DN-embassy_27int.ART.State.Edition1.423c93e.html
WASHINGTON –Diplomats who refuse to go to Iraq could lose their jobs, the State Department said Friday.

Those notified that they have been selected for a one-year posting will have 10 days to accept or reject the position. If not enough accept, some will be ordered to go to Iraq and face dismissal if they refuse, Mr. Thomas said.

Problems with the new Embassy being built by First Kuwaiti General Trading & Contracting Co.
The company's future role in the lucrative embassy construction business, they said, depends on how quickly it resolves the problems in Baghdad, where the massive $740 million embassy complex is behind schedule due to a series of fire safety, electrical and other flaws.

It gets better.
Dr. Rice was answering questions from Rep. Tom Davis, R-Va., about why the State Department awarded the Baghdad contract to First Kuwaiti in 2005 despite allegations that the company and its founder, Lebanese businessman Wadih al-Absi, engaged in a $200,000 kickback scheme on unrelated Army contracts in Iraq.

Dr. Rice said the department wasn't aware of the allegations.

How could they not be aware of this.

Sound familiar?

mojo2

11-06-2007, 06:36 PM

I guess the good news coming out of Iraq doesn't resonate among some diplomats.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/stories/DN-embassy_27int.ART.State.Edition1.423c93e.html

They should be ashamed and be reminded of their oath.

Serving in the diplomatic corps is not always going to be some gay exotic holiday. SOMETIMES it is. But if you go in thinking that everything is a party you had better think again.

screener

11-07-2007, 12:26 AM

They should be ashamed and be reminded of their oath.

Serving in the diplomatic corps is not always going to be some gay exotic holiday. SOMETIMES it is. But if you go in thinking that everything is a party you had better think again.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/31/state.department.iraq/index.html
The State Department has relied solely on volunteers to fill overseas jobs in recent decades. Forced assignments have not been used since the Vietnam War era.
That says a lot doesn't it.
The way they found out about it would piss me off as well,
Some at the hourlong town hall-style meeting questioned why they were not told of the policy change directly, learning about it instead from news organizations last week.

segovius

11-07-2007, 02:26 AM

Serving in the diplomatic corps is not always going to be some gay exotic holiday. SOMETIMES it is.

:err:

mojo2

11-07-2007, 02:31 PM

Yeah, you'll elect a Republican that will start another war in the Middle East.

I don't think they need help.

What you fail to imagine is what would be PREVENTED.

In hind sight (the only thing many liberals can see clearly) we all recognize the wisdom there would have been in trying to stop Hitler before the Nazis grew strong and able to out wit the peace mongering nit wits of Europe and America.

But when it comes to seeing the threat before your eyes you guys prove you're better at recognizing opportunities to lick hinds than in licking global threats.

mojo2

11-07-2007, 02:32 PM

:err:

:err:

mojo2

11-07-2007, 02:35 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/31/state.department.iraq/index.html

That says a lot doesn't it.
The way they found out about it would piss me off as well,

The liberals, Democrats and dilettantes in the Foreign Service showed what they were made of by cowering from sharing the tough news with the rank and file in a manly way?

What a surprise! :lol:

hardeeharhar

11-07-2007, 02:42 PM

mojo2

11-07-2007, 03:07 PM

Here is the thing mojo2, you don't know what could have happened in the middle east. It is a virtual tie between the entire region would have gone up in a cloud of smoke or the entire region becoming some peacenik haven had we not intervened. We went in for NO REASON.

You cannot go into war at the expense of many many thousands of lives (hundreds of thousands ultimately) on the supposition that you are preventing *something*. It isn't rational.

To suggest that this is even remotely related to Hitler's rise is to ignore the fact that we didn't even go in when he invaded the Sudetenland, something that would be unimaginable today. There is a level of interventionalist foreign policies that ensures that actions taken by a nation are based upon the best available information of actual actions. The Iraq war did not meet this litmus test. We went in on trumpted up data. Cherry picked to make Saddam's regime into a paper tiger, of course.

Assuming you are old enough to have sexual intercourse I will prove to you the flaw in your assumption.

Ever use a condom?

Why?

To prevent "something" from happening.

You don't KNOW you would get a 'chocolate helmet.'

You don't KNOW you would contract an STD.

You don't KNOW you would impregnate the girl.

But you bear the cost and inconvenience and possible awkwardness and lessened sensation of buying, applying and using a condom because you realize the POSSIBLE risk if you don't practice safe sex is worth the downside of taking the precaution.

Later, after you get to know him if you found out he had a high colonic enema and there was no danger of 'packing fudge' or if the girl later told you she was a virgin and due to a traffic accident she'd had her ovaries removed at a young age and was incapable of ever bearing children does it mean you were wrong to have been worried about getting her pregnant or catching VD?

No.

You recognized the possibility, you weighed the risk and you did what you had to do.

hardeeharhar

11-07-2007, 03:43 PM

That doesn't disprove anything, mojo2.

Acts of state where OTHERS are involved and their LIVES are at risk should be taken more seriously than whether I use rubbers or not.

screener

11-07-2007, 06:24 PM

The liberals, Democrats and dilettantes in the Foreign Service showed what they were made of by cowering from sharing the tough news with the rank and file in a manly way?

What a surprise! :lol:

What?
Explain that bit of rational please.

screener

11-07-2007, 06:31 PM

That doesn't disprove anything, mojo2.

Acts of state where OTHERS are involved and their LIVES are at risk should be taken more seriously than whether I use rubbers or not.

With a moronic analogy like that, it makes you wonder who the adult is.

mojo2

11-08-2007, 12:27 PM

What?
Explain that bit of rational please.

When you sign on to work in the Foreign Service you sign on to do the country's work, despite the challenges your job, mission or posting might pose. You are in effect married to the United States government.

For better or worse.

As for the Dems and libs and dilettantes part, liberals believe that government is the answer to this country's problems and they see working in government as a painter might who has an unlimited supply of brushes.

In contrast, conservatives see government as a necessary evil and they believe the smaller the government and the less government there is, the better. Conservatives believe that capitalism and the private sector is the driving force behind America's greatness.

When people look to make careers you will find, for the most part, that Conservatives look to have careers outside of government and liberals look for careers INSIDE of government.

When fun loving young people who also have a sense of duty look at a public service career and they do not choose the military it is understandable they might be attracted by the stereotypical lifestyle of parties and receptions of the diplomatic corps.

As more liberals are Democrats than Republicans and as more Gays are Democrats than Republican, and as more Democrats join the government in pursuit of careers than Republicans and as fewer Gays are in the military than straights then it stands to reason that liberals and Democrats and Gays are most likely to be represented in the Diplomatic Corps.

And we all know that liberals are very big on the empty gesture that suggests a grand, important something but is in reality a meaningless sham. Liberals are also the ones in life who are most apt to judge a book by it's cover, jump to a conclusion, want nothing more than the highlights, are most concerned with appearances and who do things on a lark and are rather shallow in their dealings with issues and people. (Think of the Seinfeld characters.)

mojo2

11-08-2007, 12:35 PM

With a moronic analogy like that, it makes you wonder who the adult is.

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/9591/lippysz1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Screener, don't be mean to him. Not even Lippy the Lion would be so hard on hardeeharhar as you are with that comment. :(

http://www2.wi.net/~rkurer/toontracker/lipphard.html

mojo2

11-08-2007, 12:41 PM

That doesn't disprove anything, mojo2.

Acts of state where OTHERS are involved and their LIVES are at risk should be taken more seriously than whether I use rubbers or not.

The principle is the thing, hardee. You ARE a man of principle, aren't you?

Flounder

11-08-2007, 01:39 PM

And we all know that liberals are very big on the empty gesture that suggests a grand, important something but is in reality a meaningless sham. Liberals are also the ones in life who are most apt to judge a book by it's cover, jump to a conclusion, want nothing more than the highlights, are most concerned with appearances and who do things on a lark and are rather shallow in their dealings with issues and people. (Think of the Seinfeld characters.)

That's quite the illogical, unsupported, blatantly bigoted statement you've got there.

Especially this bit

the ones in life who are most apt to judge a book by it's cover, jump to a conclusion

I mean, how can you breath while suffocating in a pool or your own irony?

mojo2

11-08-2007, 04:53 PM

That's quite the illogical, unsupported, blatantly bigoted statement you've got there.

Especially this bit

I mean, how can you breath while suffocating in a pool or your own irony?

It's easy when you stop. OBSERVE. Think. Compare. OBSERVE some more. Think and then compare some more.

Because you haven't done any of the above you assume that what I say is incorrect.

If you were able to divorce yourself from your emotions ( HA! :lol: ) long enough to look objectively at the situation you might see that I have recognized something that was always there but that it's in everyone's interest to overlook.

Like FDR's being crippled. Everyone knew it but no one made mention of it. Unfortunately, you liberals have gotten to the point where you think you are our equal but the reality is that you are like women. The Democratic party is the softer, gentler, wackier, crazier, impractical, style-over-substance, meaningless gesturing, emotional, knee-jerk, impulsive, immediate gratification, "say anything to get your own way," pandering, placating, appeasing, vindictive, petty party.

And, like bacteria before the invention of the microscope, it's always been that way.

You just never saw it.

Now that I have opened your eyes to it you will never be the same.

You're welcome.

:smokey:

@_@ Artman

11-08-2007, 05:00 PM

Unfortunately, you liberals have gotten to the point where you think you are our equal but the reality is that you are like women. The Democratic party is the softer, gentler, wackier, crazier, impractical, style-over-substance, meaningless gesturing, emotional, knee-jerk, impulsive, immediate gratification, "say anything to get your own way," pandering, placating, appeasing, vindictive, petty party.

So, are we going to ignore this troll all together or are we going to let this idiot continue with this? Don't continue to respond to this garbage. It only emboldens the troll more.

mojo2

11-08-2007, 05:43 PM

So, are we going to ignore this troll all together or are we going to let this idiot continue with this? Don't continue to respond to this garbage. It only emboldens the troll more.

The truth hurts, huh?

:\

screener

11-08-2007, 05:46 PM

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/9591/lippysz1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Screener, don't be mean to him. Not even Lippy the Lion would be so hard on hardeeharhar as you are with that comment. :(

http://www2.wi.net/~rkurer/toontracker/lipphard.html

It was meant for you you arrogant moron.

screener

11-08-2007, 05:50 PM

So, are we going to ignore this troll all together or are we going to let this idiot continue with this? Don't continue to respond to this garbage. It only emboldens the troll more.

I'll second that.

Flounder

11-08-2007, 05:56 PM

Unfortunately, you liberals have gotten to the point where you think you are our equal but the reality is that you are like women. The Democratic party is the softer, gentler, wackier, crazier, impractical, style-over-substance, meaningless gesturing, emotional, knee-jerk, impulsive, immediate gratification, "say anything to get your own way," pandering, placating, appeasing, vindictive, petty party.

Wow, you must be REALLY popular with women if that's what you think of them. I really don't think you're at all serious. Anyways, welcome to the ignore list. I won't be playing the game any longer. At the rate you're going, you'll be banned soon enough.

mojo2

11-08-2007, 06:02 PM

It was meant for you...

Do you reeeeally think I didn't know that? :???:

mojo2

11-08-2007, 06:06 PM

I'll second that.

Go ahead. It will mean that you will have achieved a semblance of integrity.

The same way you ignore the threat of Jihad in real life will be reflected in the way you ignore those who remind you of the threat of Jihad.

And the funny thing is that you will be proud of this and really think you have accomplished something with your meaningless gestures.

8-)

mojo2

11-08-2007, 06:08 PM

Wow, you must be REALLY popular with women if that's what you think of them. I really don't think you're at all serious. Anyways, welcome to the ignore list. I won't be playing the game any longer. At the rate you're going, you'll be banned soon enough.

There are conservative women who I love and respect who would agree with me.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7528/ann20coulterqw0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

audiopollution

11-08-2007, 06:17 PM

There are conservative women who I love and respect who would agree with me.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/7528/ann20coulterqw0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

That's a man, dumbass.

Guybrush Threepwood

11-08-2007, 06:23 PM

The only reason I'm ignoring him is because he uses an emoticon after every post.

hardeeharhar

11-08-2007, 06:35 PM

Oh, he is ignored...

mojo2

11-08-2007, 07:13 PM

The only reason I'm ignoring him is because he uses an emoticon after every post.

:grumble:

mojo2

11-08-2007, 07:14 PM

That's a man, dumbass.

Just because a woman would reject you does not mean she is a man or a dyke.

And there is no doubt Ann would reject you.

:smokey:

mojo2

11-08-2007, 07:17 PM

Seconded. Ignored.

Can I get a third?

Justin, can I get a high five? Hey man, I heard Lindsey is hot for you. Meet me after study hall and we'll burn one, ok?

Outsider

11-08-2007, 10:11 PM

Guys, this dude is pulling your legs. No one honestly puts a picture of Ann Coulter up and says they admire her, unless 'admire' now means 'I want to throw up when I see'.

mojo2

11-09-2007, 05:27 AM

Guys, this dude is pulling your legs. No one honestly puts a picture of Ann Coulter up and says they admire her, unless 'admire' now means 'I want to throw up when I see'.

She is a correspondent for "Human Events" magazine.

Honors graduate from Cornell University School of Arts and Sciences (Class of 1984) and received her J.D. from The University of Michigan Law School.

She was an editor of The Michigan Law Review.

Coulter practiced law in New York City.

She worked for the Senate Judiciary Committee, where she handled crime and immigration issues for former Sen. Spencer Abraham (R-MI).

Was a litigator with The Center For Individual Rights in Washington, DC, a far-right-wing law firm that says it is "dedicated to the defense of individual rights with a particular emphasis on freedom of speech, civil rights and the freedom of religion.".

She clerked for the Hon. Pasco Bowman II of the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit and was an attorney in the Department of Justice Honors program for outstanding law school graduates.

She was named one of the top 100 Public Intellectuals by federal judge Richard A. Posner in 2001. Posner, an appointee of Republican president Ronald Reagan, provoked outrage in the legal community in 1999 when, in an article in Raritan magazine, he contended that "the rule of law is an accidental and dispensable element of legal ideology", and caused another stir in an article that put forth the argument that buying and selling babies on the free market would lead to better outcomes than the present situation of government-regulated adoption.

Writes a syndicated column for Universal Press Syndicate.

First came to prominence with the publication of the book "High Crimes and Misdemeanors", which was a best-seller in 1998. That led to her now-familiar appearances as a guest on many conservative television talk shows and her many appearances as a guest or guest host of most of the country's right-wing radio talk shows. Two subsequent books, "Slander" and "Treason", have also been best-sellers.

Was good friends with the late Barbara Olson, a fellow lawyer and author who perished on Sep. 11, 2001, on an airplane that terrorists flew into the Pentagon.

During the Q&A session of her lecture at the University of Arizona in October 2004, two pie-wielding pranksters ran up to her and threw their pies, but she very quickly ran off the stage and the pies missed her. In a column written several months after the incident, she fumed, "Fortunately, liberals not only argue like liberals, they also throw like girls.".

Was a good friend of the late John Kennedy Jr., her George Magazine editor.

Sister of John Jr. and James (Jim) Coulter. Sister-in-law of Pam and Diane. Aunt of Kimberly and Christina.

Daughter of John Vincent Coulter, born ca 1928, attorney for Phelps Dodge, and wife Nell Husbands Martin, born in Paducah, Kentucky, 23 February 1928 and married in Stuyvesant, New York, 30 September 1953.

Is friends with fellow conservative author Laura Ingraham.

The character Ainsley Hayes, from "The West Wing" (1999), is partially based on her.

Moved to Palm Beach, Florida in 2005 where one of her neighbors is bestselling author James Patterson.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1326010/bio