Apple aware some MacBooks contain flawed Seagate drives

[AppleInsider]

Apple Inc. is acknowledging that some of its MacBook notebooks shipped with hard disk drives plagued by a manufacturing flaw that can result in permanent data loss even when used under routine operating conditions.

The issue, reported earlier this month by U.K.-based data-recovery firm Retrodata and subsequently covered by AppleInsider, is confined to Seagate 2.5-inch SATA drives that are manufactured in China and loaded with firmware Version 7.01.

The affected drives -- model numbers ST96812AS and ST98823AS -- are commonly found in notebooks such as Apple's MacBook or MacBook Pro, the firm says. To determine whether a MacBook has one of the affected drives, it's suggested that owners go to their Mac's System Profiler application and check the revision number under the Serial ATA listing.

If the System Profiler indicates that the computer is using a Seagate hard drive with firmware Version 7.01, Retrodata recommends backing up all data and then having the drive replaced.

The firm had previously criticized Apple as being "utterly irresponsible" for its silent stance on the matter and not immediately commissioning a recall of all systems that included the Seagate manufactured part.

While Apple has still not issued a recall or warning to customers, spokesman Cameron Craig said this week that the company is aware that there might be a problem. "We've received a few reports that some MacBook consumer notebooks may have hard drive issues, and we're looking into it," he told InformationWeek.

As part of its continued coverage of the vulnerability, Retrodata this week said it continues to receive "quantities" of the affects drives for recovery, nearly all of which display the same cause of failure -- the read/write heads appear to fail mechanically, quickly causing deep scratches to the platter surface, and rendering the drives practically unrecoverable.

A Retrodata image showing a bad drive head found inside one of the Seagate drives.

The bad drive head quickly causing deep scratches to the drive's platter surface.

The firm believes the problem is the result of a manufacturing flaw, and not in the design of the drive. Nevertheless, it says any sizeable manufacturer should by this stage be aware of such a problem and issue a product recall notice, or an offer to have the drive exchanged for a suitable alternative at their own expense.

"It's Seagate's problem, but it's Apple's responsibility to address the problem, since they're providing the part," said Duncan Clarke, managing director for Retrodata. "Apple needs to own up and take action."[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=3456)

[Fishyesque]

That blows.

[SpamSandwich]

OMG, just wait til the next ginormous class-action suit is filed on this one. Apple... morons!

[bdkennedy1]

You would be joining that lawsuit had you lost all of your work or financial data.
On the other hand, maybe this is a scheme to get everyone to purchase a second hard drive to back data up.

Scare the consumer into buying your product.

[Quagga]

You would be joining that lawsuit had you lost all of your work or financial data.
On the other hand, maybe this is a scheme to get everyone to purchase a second hard drive to back data up.

Scare the consumer into buying your product.

Well their product is expensive data recovery so assuming you had a backup, you wouldn't need their service. On the other hand, I don't know anybody who hasn't had a "man I wish I had a backup now" moment. Mine was after a lovely pinball sound started coming from my desktop.

And with Time Machine, it is extremely easy to back up. I don't even think about it (although I do check to make sure it is there now and again). Having backups are always a good idea.

My Macbook didn't have a Seagate drive in it and I replaced it right away with a bigger Samsung so this particular problem won't affect me.

[acknight]

Has Seagate admitted to a problem yet? Presumably they'd have to recall them first... or else Apple's literally eating the cost of replacing all of those drives, for what may or may not actually be a line-wide problem...

Also... FWIW, the new Santa Rosa Macbook seems to ship with Hitachi drives.

[roehlstation]

You all need to realize that the "reports" on this issue is still very new, Apple doesn't have to respond the first freaking second something is found, they need to work with Seagate to figure out if it is only a problem with a certain lot of them, they are aware of the problem, and so they have taken the necessary steps at this point. But you CANNOT expect them to do something the second they hear of an issue, they need to collect a certain amount of data and determine what steps are necessary. A Class action lawsuit should not happen and if it were to happen it would work against what Apple should do, (issue a voluntary recall, and extend the warranty for 3 years on this part) that is how it has always happened in the past, A Class action lawsuit will likely thwart this. Apple won't feel obligated to issue a recall and extend the warranty on the drive if they have paid out to a class action. BTW: Apple is NOT responsible for the customer's data backup strategy (or lack thereof)

And now: Retrodata: just who are you? I love the fact that they think it is any drive that has a firmware version of 7.01. The firmware has NOTHING to do with the mechanical defects; it isn't even a good way to identify the drive, besides, bad drives can have a different firmware version. Apple and Seagate are looking into which batches of drives are effected. They will have Serial number series of effected drives, and not rely on a firmware number, and for them to call Apple "Utterly Irresponsible" for not issuing a recall on ALL MacBooks for simply having a Seagate hard disk is far more Irresponsible. The recall may only affect a couple thousand units and not the ENTIRE product line.

Once they have it narrowed down to which batch of drives have manufacturers defects they will have to cross reference with which Serial Numbered Machines have been affected: ONLY THEN can they issue a recall. It is rather clear that Retrodata has no idea how a recall process works, NO ONE issues a recall very quickly, sometimes it takes years.

Mark my words, Apple WILL issue a recall on those units affected and extend the warranty of the effected part for a total of 3 years. If you are freaking out about whether or not you have one of these units, buy a replacement drive, (might be a good time to upgrade) MacBook drives are user serviceable and easy to do, MacBook Pro users, not so easy.

[wwwluckyro]

I have a Mac Mini that has this model: ST96812AS - firmware version: 7.01

Am I in trouble? I've been using this since it was introduced, a year and a half ago. It's the first Core Solo Mac Mini.

I had no problems with it..

[ak1808]

I have one of these drives and would like to get a new one ASAP. I'm using time machine but I'm sure it's gonna fail in the least convenient moment.

[tmedia1]

My MacBookPro has this drive. No problems after 14 months. I already backup to an external drive, but will do more often now...

[kaioslider]

Hi, could those of you who have id'd the drive in their MacBooks list some of the information about your computer? My sister has a core duo MacBook bought a few months before they went to core 2 duo processors. So if the machines affected are limited to say core 2 duo machines I now she's alright, if not I'll want to address this. She has had some issues, but unfortunately she's not very computer savvy so it's hard to say if her little problems are related to just her along or her and hardware. It'd not be a problem if this particular product didn't have all the other issues associated with it.

Thanks

[roehlstation]

Hi, could those of you who have id'd the drive in their MacBooks list some of the information about your computer? My sister has a core duo MacBook bought a few months before they went to core 2 duo processors. So if the machines affected are limited to say core 2 duo machines I now she's alright, if not I'll want to address this. She has had some issues, but unfortunately she's not very computer savvy so it's hard to say if her little problems are related to just her along or her and hardware. It'd not be a problem if this particular product didn't have all the other issues associated with it.

Thanks

Until Seagate and Apple nails down serial number runs, you can't assume anything at this point. The model and firmware version that Retrodata is saying is flawed has been a model and firmware Apple has been using in models dating back almost 2 years. No one from that far back has really reported this issue.

[GraphicUmp]

MacBooks, MacBook Pros and Minis all have the affected drives installed.

I have a Mini CD 1.83 with one of the 'afflicted' drives. It has had minor data corruption issues since the day I bought it. I have a Mini C2D 1.83 with an Hitachi 80 GB drive that I've just replaced with a Samsung Spinpoint 120 GB drive. I'm putting the Hitachi into the CD Mini and hanging onto the Seagate until Apple decides to do something about this.

I'm tired of fixing the data corruption weekly and I do not want to wait until the dang thing fails suddenly.

To find out what drive you have installed, click on the Apple in the upper left, then About This Mac, then More Info, then Serial-ATA. If it's an affected drive, it will be either ST96812AS or ST98823AS with firmware 7.01.

[rosstheboss]

i've been reading these boards for a long time...

My close work colleague has the 'known' issue of vertical lines of dead or discoloured pixels on his 17inch G4 Powerbook ...i'm going help him with his situation, but once again, Apple seem to not only ignore the problem...but delete threads on their own discussion!!!

There aren't many companies who actively censor their users and the experiences that they have.

Public dissent is controlled in politics and the media!, and then whitewashed with propaganda. Familiar?

Curious to know what the best way to resolve this is. I had a (well, several) 40gb non-photo ipod, a widely considered 'lemon' of the family. i showed an Apple 'genius' some not particularly scientific, but nonetheless real survey results i'd found that concurred that there was an issue with this model. Said 'genius' responded that Apple don't acknowledge or consider research not carried out by them. No! They just delete it.

If i find out that my two work MacBook Pro's have this suspect Seagate drive, and i'd only have normally found this out hardway, i'll be proper cross!

Come on apple, don't just send us marketing emails and mailshots...look after your 'valued' customers.

[roehlstation]

MacBooks, MacBook Pros and Minis all have the affected drives installed.

I have a Mini CD 1.83 with one of the 'afflicted' drives. It has had minor data corruption issues since the day I bought it. I have a Mini C2D 1.83 with an Hitachi 80 GB drive that I've just replaced with a Samsung Spinpoint 120 GB drive. I'm putting the Hitachi into the CD Mini and hanging onto the Seagate until Apple decides to do something about this.

I'm tired of fixing the data corruption weekly and I do not want to wait until the dang thing fails suddenly.

To find out what drive you have installed, click on the Apple in the upper left, then About This Mac, then More Info, then Serial-ATA. If it's an affected drive, it will be either ST96812AS or ST98823AS with firmware 7.01.

Oh for the love of Pete people:


Data corruption would be caused by a different issue than this, this is a Mechanical failure, data corruption is caused by other issues.

[elehcdn]

Oh for the love of Pete people:


Data corruption would be caused by a different issue than this, this is a Mechanical failure, data corruption is caused by other issues.

Agreed. If the heads were indeed diving down and gouging the platter, you would also be losing a significant amount of drive capacity. If you have had to reformat your harddrive after one of these corruptions and come up many GB short of what you expected, I would think that you might be one of the people affected by this issue, but if you recovered your drive and continue to routinely write data to your drives, the likelihood that you are having this type of catastrophic failure is probably pretty low.

[mgabrys]

The pictures look neat. Like the rings of Saturn. OH SHIT THAT'S MY DRIVE!

Moving right along, seems to be an awful wide net they're casting for. A build-date would be handy. I've got mine on the receipt. I mean they can't be ALL bad right? I mean what's next - lead in toys from China? Contaminated Pet food? Pullleeze.

Lead is of-the-earth you know. Like nature's candy. Or Mercury - nature's LSD.

Also - hate to cast doubt because I'm not an Apologist for Seagate - but wouldn't a drive head exhibit such an effect if the laptop was dropped when the heads weren't parked?

[JeffDM]

I have a Mac Mini that has this model: ST96812AS - firmware version: 7.01

Am I in trouble? I've been using this since it was introduced, a year and a half ago. It's the first Core Solo Mac Mini.

I had no problems with it..

Usually there's no way to know the real risk of any hardware problem on the Internet because of the Internet Bullhorn Effect. Here, it doesn't seem to be very big. There's an occasional problem thread and statements by a repair company in the UK. That doesn't sound like much. Someone mentioned that no one seems to be tracking serial numbers, it could be isolated blocks of serial numbers but there isn't any information. For all I know, it's scaremongering in order to get attention and to sell replacement drives.

Even if you're in the clear, you should have a backup drive and update it often.

[Lafe]

You all need to realize that the "reports" on this issue is still very new, Apple doesn't have to respond the first freaking second something is found, they need to work with Seagate to figure out if it is only a problem with a certain lot of them, they are aware of the problem, and so they have taken the necessary steps at this point. But you CANNOT expect them to do something the second they hear of an issue, they need to collect a certain amount of data and determine what steps are necessary. A Class action lawsuit should not happen and if it were to happen it would work against what Apple should do, (issue a voluntary recall, and extend the warranty for 3 years on this part) that is how it has always happened in the past, A Class action lawsuit will likely thwart this. Apple won't feel obligated to issue a recall and extend the warranty on the drive if they have paid out to a class action. BTW: Apple is NOT responsible for the customer's data backup strategy (or lack thereof)

And now: Retrodata: just who are you? I love the fact that they think it is any drive that has a firmware version of 7.01. The firmware has NOTHING to do with the mechanical defects; it isn't even a good way to identify the drive, besides, bad drives can have a different firmware version. Apple and Seagate are looking into which batches of drives are effected. They will have Serial number series of effected drives, and not rely on a firmware number, and for them to call Apple "Utterly Irresponsible" for not issuing a recall on ALL MacBooks for simply having a Seagate hard disk is far more Irresponsible. The recall may only affect a couple thousand units and not the ENTIRE product line.

Once they have it narrowed down to which batch of drives have manufacturers defects they will have to cross reference with which Serial Numbered Machines have been affected: ONLY THEN can they issue a recall. It is rather clear that Retrodata has no idea how a recall process works, NO ONE issues a recall very quickly, sometimes it takes years.

Mark my words, Apple WILL issue a recall on those units affected and extend the warranty of the effected part for a total of 3 years. If you are freaking out about whether or not you have one of these units, buy a replacement drive, (might be a good time to upgrade) MacBook drives are user serviceable and easy to do, MacBook Pro users, not so easy.


Everyone needs to calm down and listen to roehlstation. He speaks wisely.

Until Apple tells you your machine was built with a bad drive and they offer to replace it, just back up your data responsibly or replace the drive yourself (if possible). The rest smells like fearmongering to me.

[internetworld7]

Has Seagate admitted to a problem yet? Presumably they'd have to recall them first... or else Apple's literally eating the cost of replacing all of those drives, for what may or may not actually be a line-wide problem...

Also... FWIW, the new Santa Rosa Macbook seems to ship with Hitachi drives.

Is this really true? because I'm purchasing a new Macbook Nov. 30th so I hope it does have a Hitachi drive. Is there a way to make sure my Macbook has a Hitachi drive before I purchase it from my local Apple store :???:

[roehlstation]

Is this really true? because I'm purchasing a new Macbook Nov. 30th so I hope it does have a Hitachi drive. Is there a way to make sure my Macbook has a Hitachi drive before I purchase it from my local Apple store :???:

Not until after you have purchased the machine and have taken it home.

At this point though I wouldn't worry too much, go to a place that has a lot of traffic, a place that has likely sold any of those affected machines a long time ago. The fact that the previous poster has a Hitachi drive in his machine is likely coincidence and not necessarily because of this, Apple has always rotated OEM hard drive manufacturers for this very reason, they wouldn't have to recall an entire product line because of faulty hard disks. I would say even if you were to get a Seagate drive in a brand new machine, it is likely fine, because Seagate would already have pulled those drives from delivery to Apple.

Another thing to keep in mind, Retrodata is located in the UK. The UK does not necessarily get their Apple products from the same place the US does, there is more than 1 factory building these computers. At this point the number of bad drives out there are a drop in the bucket compared to the number of units sold.

[internetworld7]

Thank you roehlstation :) What you've said makes perfect sense and makes me feel a lot better about going forward and switching permanently from Windows on Nov. 30th. The Mac will be a completely new platform for me but I've been a closet Mac fan for at least 2 years and now it's time to come out of the closet Nov. 30th but because I'm far from rich spending $1099 for a computer that will quickly erode had me very nervous!

[roehlstation]

Thank you roehlstation :) What you've said makes perfect sense and makes me feel a lot better about going forward and switching permanently from Windows on Nov. 30th. The Mac will be a completely new platform for me but I've been a closet Mac fan for at least 2 years and now it's time to come out of the closet Nov. 30th but because I'm far from rich spending $1099 for a computer that will quickly erode had me very nervous!

Welcome, and I hope you enjoy it.

[nvidia2008]

[nevermind]

[Eyeball Kid]

I have a Mac Mini that has this model: ST96812AS - firmware version: 7.01

Am I in trouble? I've been using this since it was introduced, a year and a half ago. It's the first Core Solo Mac Mini.

I had no problems with it..


Oh, my. I had the EXACT model, with the EXACT firmware in my daughter's MacBook Core Duo, purchased in September of 2006. That was about a month ago, when the drive went Blooey.

Advice, advice, advice: BACK UP ALL OF YOUR DATA, AND/OR REPLACE THE HARD DRIVE IMMEDIATELY. It could go at any time, especially if you've been using it for just over 12 months. If you google the drive, and Seagate/MacBook searches, you'll find a whole lot of people who complain that their Seagate drives of exactly the same model and firmware version destroyed themselves just after the one year warranty expired. Moreover, the drive doesn't show up as a device on any machine, Mac or PC, so retrieving data by software means is well-nye impossible. I know. My daughter lost thousands of photographs and didn't back up any of them. They're gone. She also lost research and draft files for college courses. Ouch.

I tried every remedy that I can imagine had a chance of working. Freezing, data recovery software, etc. And I'm even considering buying another identical drive and swapping the controller board on the drive, as I heard that this might be a way to recover data. But I'm waiting for Apple and Seagate's response.

Again, your data will be gone unless you already backed it up or you're up for spending a few THOUSAND dollars on recovery, and even then, it's a maybe.

[Eyeball Kid]

Is this really true? because I'm purchasing a new Macbook Nov. 30th so I hope it does have a Hitachi drive. Is there a way to make sure my Macbook has a Hitachi drive before I purchase it from my local Apple store :???:

I'd imagine that you could open up the box right there in the store after you bought it, start up the machine, and go right to "about this Mac", choose more info, then go to serial ATA for the model and firmware version of your hard drive.

Some posters are minimizing the claim that the drive/firmware identity is part of some kind of hype. To me, it's not. It happened with a Seagate ST96812AS, firmware version 7.0.1. I've written this down so often in trying to find a remedy to the inability to recover data, I know it by heart.

I've been working on the drive for over a week, with NO success. Now, really, replacement of the drive is probably for a cost of under 50 bucks. It's saving the data that's really costly. So, back everything up.

[crox]

My June, 2006 BlackBook 2ghz had the affected Seagate drive (80g) with the 7.01 firmware cited by Retrodata. It catastrophically bit the dust after 11 months of service. I didn't take advantage of the replacement under the 1 yr warranty period b/c Apple want to take the drive from you, regardless of the fact that you are compromising your data security by giving up the drive. No matter how much apple insists "We never have a problem with data being compromised," I don't give my proprietary data to anyone, even if it is inside a ruined piece of kit. I'm sure Apple's been aware of this problem for a long time; I just hope the latest round of publicity force them to make things right to their customers. Retrodata did the right thing - it's time apple owned up.

[adamrust]

this now explains why i had to get my hard drive replaced 4 times in my macbook.

the one thing that bugged me with this is that after getting a 4th hard drive, they still wouldn't admit anything was wrong and accused me of doing some sort of user error to make it fail every time. i had my drive replaced the 4th time about 2 months before my 1 year warranty was up, and i think it's ridiculous they don't extend the warranty to a year from the service date.

edit: i got my macbook the summer of '06, so it's a core duo, 2 ghz, 100 gb drive, 1 gb of memory. i think this problem has been a problem in a lot of the earlier macbooks, and apple has since changed hard drive manufacturers for the new ones. i wouldn't worry about this if you bought one recently or plan on buying one.

[roehlstation]

this now explains why i had to get my hard drive replaced 4 times in my macbook.

the one thing that bugged me with this is that after getting a 4th hard drive, they still wouldn't admit anything was wrong and accused me of doing some sort of user error to make it fail every time. i had my drive replaced the 4th time about 2 months before my 1 year warranty was up, and i think it's ridiculous they don't extend the warranty to a year from the service date.


That is how Everyone in the industry handles it. Sorry about your bad luck on that. Do you know what drive is in there now.

I know if I'd have been servicing it, after the second time I may have looked into a possible issue elsewhere, (unless it was a mechanical failure every time)

[roehlstation]

Retrodata did the right thing - it's time apple owned up.

As I have explained, they need to know exactly which units are affected, they cannot make a statement until then. Making a premature announcement would have dire effects on their bottom line, which would suck if it only affected a fraction of the total installed base, I know as a stock holder that would totally tick me off. You should be comforted in the fact at this point that they have acknowledged the issue and are looking into it. (The right thing will be done, I know it stinks having to wait for it, but Apple has ALWAYS done the right thing in the past)

Also, don't assume if you've had a drive failure, that it is because of this issue. Drives fail for MANY reasons, remember you have a device rotating at 5400 RPM, there are a lot of things in a hard disk that can fail.

[adamrust]

That is how Everyone in the industry handles it. Sorry about your bad luck on that. Do you know what drive is in there now.

I know if I'd have been servicing it, after the second time I may have looked into a possible issue elsewhere, (unless it was a mechanical failure every time)


the drive is a toshiba now, i haven't had any problems since they last replaced it (march?)

[pt123]

Making a premature announcement would have dire effects on their bottom line, which would suck if it only affected a fraction of the total installed base, I know as a stock holder that would totally tick me off.


Yeah it's good to know that Apple watches out the the shareholders while customer risk permenant data loss from a manufacturing flaw. I can just hear it - Apple: you lost data? Well our stock price are up, didn't you heed the warnings from the online forums?

[roehlstation]

Yeah it's good to know that Apple watches out the the shareholders while customer risk permenant data loss from a manufacturing flaw. I can just hear it - Apple: you lost data? Well our stock price are up, didn't you heed the warnings from the online forums?

They aren't only protecting their stockholders they are protecting the entire market, you should take a look at the SEC regulations regarding this. There are specific steps that must take place before announcements that are positive or negative are made because it effects the entire market.

Once again: Apple is NOT responsible for consumer's data backup strategies (or lack thereof)

[pt123]

They aren't only protecting their stockholders they are protecting the entire market, you should take a look at the SEC regulations regarding this. There are specific steps that must take place before announcements that are positive or negative are made because it effects the entire market.

Once again: Apple is NOT responsible for consumer's data backup strategies (or lack thereof)

Apple - a manufacturing flaw in the hard drive in our MacBook can result in permanent data loss even when used under routine operating conditions, but we are not responsible. We are protecting the entire market by not giving our customers any warning, just go look up some SEC rules. Wow!

[roehlstation]

Apple - a manufacturing flaw in the hard drive in our MacBook can result in permanent data loss even when used under routine operating conditions, but we are not responsible. We are protecting the entire market by not giving our customers any warning, just go look up some SEC rules. Wow!

Way to oversimplify the issue.

BTW: I replaced 200 hard disks in computers this week in my part time position at a service center where I am certified to work on NOT just Apple computers. 1 of those hard disks was in a Mac...(it was a 7 year old machine.) Half of the drives were still under the 1 year warranty. Should everyone else warn their customers as well? I'm going to leave it up to common sense (BACK UP YOUR STUFF.....PERIOD)

Yes I agree, it sucks that this is happening to people and it is frustrating that Apple remains rather Mum about it, and I'm sure I'd be mad if it happened to me, Rightfully so, however, I have a backup strategy in place so I might be out a day work. I do rely on my computers to make money, everything I do is on computers producing work to go onto other computers; I deal in Data. As such, backups are important. Look at it this way.

WHAT IF FED EX ONLY HAD ONE TRUCK?!

Some of you need to get a grip and realize Apple is NOT just sitting back and doing nothing. They are remaining mum until they have the appropriate information to give out. Why scare everyone if only 1/10th of 1 % of the total units are affected?

Hard disks fail under normal operating conditions MORE often then not. Realize that All hard drives will fail sometime. And you will rarely know when. Even if under warranty a hard drive can fail in the first 10 minutes of use (I've had it happen 3 times to me).

[mjbruder]

Unfortunately this article is about 2 months too late for me! My Macbook died, took it to the Apple Store, and they told me to take it to a data recovery company called Ontrak to have the data retrieved.

Ontrak attempted to recover the data for a $100 consultation fee. They said there was physical damage to the drive and nothing could be recovered. I of course didn't have anything backed up, and ended up losing about 2 years worth of photos. I guess I learned my lesson about backups.

Apple did end up replacing the drive for free because the Macbook was under 6 months old and under Apple Care, but that doesn't get me my data back.

[AllanCook]

I lost the HD on my MacBook after about 6 months. It was replaced. I have a Toshiba now. Wonder if the one that failed was a Seagate?

[internetworld7]

From the looks of things AllanCook, I'd be surprised if it wasn't a Seagate. These reports are pretty scary. Especially since on Nov. 30th I'll be going to an Apple store and purchasing a new Macbook. I guess if it does have a seagate hard drive I'll simply replace it before my warranty expires. :)

[ShinySteelRobot]

My Seagate drive died in my MacBook last Christmas. The MacBook at that time was only about 6 months old. I assumed it was a fluke, but now it appears it may have been something more. The drive had all my infant son's photos in iPhoto, it hadn't been backed up in three months, and I lost a lot of the pictures of his birth and first months of life.

Anyway, in desperation I sent it to a professional data recovery firm (Ontrack Data Recovery Co.), but they said the drive heads had crashed hard and no data could be recovered. To top it off, it cost me about $200 just to find out they couldn't recover the data.

If it turns out that there are sufficient grounds for a class action lawsuit, you can bet I'll be a part of it.

[ssh]

Yep. I had my brand new MBP disk die within a week of receiving it. It's long-since replaced, but I'd be willing to wager that this was the issue.

[beelerspace]

I had the exact same drive and firmware. It died last week. Just up and coughed, without warning.

Tried everything to retrieve data - Disk Utility, DiskWarrior, even the good ole freezer trick. Nothing.

Went out and bought a new drive at Fry's on Black Friday.

It seems pretty crappy that these drives are suddenly dying one year out - precisely when AppleCare (without additional AC) runs out. Ugh.

My MacBook's battery also had a firmware issue that prevented it from charging correctly.

I feel like I bought an eMachine Macbook or something.

[Joe Heafner]

My MBP 17 was purchased in May 2006 and from the beginning, had very intermittent disk clicking, but it didn't sound like failure. It got progressively worse, until after updating to 10.4.11 the system would click and then freeze hard, requiring a power down to restart, after coming out of sleep every time. Sure enough, the drive was model ST96812AS with firmware 7.01. I had it replaced (I'm under AppleCare) and the Apple Store replaced the faulty drive, which the Genius heard clicking away, WITH THE SAME BRAND, different model number (ST9120821AS), and firmware 7.01!!!! After driving over an hour back from the nearest Apple Store, doing a fresh install of Leopard, I was more than a little ticked off and called the Store back. I lost it. Of course, the Genius on the phone could only quote me the company line, but he offered to replace the Seagate with a different brand they had in stock. Beforehand, he told me he had no control over what brand of drive Apple sends them and that officially, he couldn't do anything more unless and until something official showed up on Apple's support site. Long story short, they're replacing the Seagate with a different brand, but it took some convincing on my part.

Yes, I understand that Apple is probably gathering data about all this, but I had called AppleCare about excessive disk clicking earlier this year, and they NEVER mentioned pending disk failure as a source. Yes, I have backups, but now I have do take yet another afternoon from work to get all this sorted out, permanently I hope.

[internetworld7]

Well I just got my brand new Macbook today and thank God it has a Fujitsu hard drive! So far I am loving this Macbook and the Macintosh platform. I shall never go back to Windows. :lol:

[vigani]

Has Seagate admitted to a problem yet? Presumably they'd have to recall them first... or else Apple's literally eating the cost of replacing all of those drives, for what may or may not actually be a line-wide problem...

Also... FWIW, the new Santa Rosa Macbook seems to ship with Hitachi drives.

I've just bought a macbook, and it has a Hitachi drive, and I can tell you that this macbook has no Santa Rosa architecture in it. Oh, this problem has nothing to do with Hitachi drivers right? because i can hear some noises coming from my macbook as well.

[Boley]

Hi,

Two days ago, My Macbook inexplicably 'died', and subsequent investigation has narrowed this down to a Hard drive failure. I know my drive is a seagate, but i'll have to open up the machine (its out of warrenty) and check the serials. I wouldn't be at all suprised if my drive is the one with the known problem.

I'll watch developments with interest, but if there is a problem and Apple do not take action in the near future, then I will in the small claims court.

Fortunately, I backup vital data regularly, but i've still lost a fair bit of material, not to mention the massive inconvienience this will cause me.

Its the last time i'll buy a Macbook, my colleague has a Macbook Pro, the motherboard has been replaced twice in two years. Apple have lost the plot as a manufacturer.

Regards,

Carl

[internetworld7]

Hi,

Two days ago, My Macbook inexplicably 'died', and subsequent investigation has narrowed this down to a Hard drive failure. I know my drive is a seagate, but i'll have to open up the machine (its out of warrenty) and check the serials. I wouldn't be at all suprised if my drive is the one with the known problem.

I'll watch developments with interest, but if there is a problem and Apple do not take action in the near future, then I will in the small claims court.

Fortunately, I backup vital data regularly, but i've still lost a fair bit of material, not to mention the massive inconvienience this will cause me.

Its the last time i'll buy a Macbook, my colleague has a Macbook Pro, the motherboard has been replaced twice in two years. Apple have lost the plot as a manufacturer.

Regards,

Carl

I'm sorry to hear this has happened to you and the others here but don't give up on Apple's Macbook offerings just yet. I purchased a new Macbook Nov. 30th with a Fujitsu hard drive and the new Santa Rosa architecture and GMA x3100 graphics card and it is running like a charm.

[toxotes]

Wow, this is like Twilight Zone. The hard drive on my MacBook died just this morning (the day I had to do a major presentation with it of course), and then I come home and read this! Mine's a Seagate but not one of the models they listed though. I guess I'll just buy a new one tomorrow (might as well get a bigger one while I'm at it...)

[pantsotron]

I purchased my macbook in oct 06 and 6 months later had my drive collapsed. As it was happily under warranty it was replaced free of charge, unfortunately they replaced it with the same model 60gb ST96812AS and now this one is showing errors and mac store won't replace it under warranty. Not happy.

[toxotes]

That sucks, pantsotron. On the other hand, maybe you can use this time to upgrade to a bigger drive. When my 100 GB macbook HD died last week I replaced it with a 200 GB Hitachi 7200 rpm drive. Twice as big and faster too! And they seem to be a lot cheaper than they used to be... another piece of good news: the hard drives on the macbooks are easily user-replaceable, although I used instructions from ifixit (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac/MacBook-Core-Duo/Hard-Drive-Replacement/86/5/)

[pantsotron]

Yeah, I've already purchased a larger drive in an external inclosure, i though i could get the current drive replaced then swap it out for the larger one and stick the replace 60gb in my new shiny enclosure.... maybe i'm just being greedy.

[toxotes]

Good luck with that. :)

[3ple4]

Maybe the new Macbooks don't have Seagate HDs anymore? I'm getting mine this week, newly shipped so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I get a non-Seagate brand ;)

[toxotes]

dunno. Let us know what you end up getting; would be interesting to know if they've changed them.

[internetworld7]

Maybe the new Macbooks don't have Seagate HDs anymore? I'm getting mine this week, newly shipped so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I get a non-Seagate brand ;)

I just got mine on November 30th and it had a Fujitsu HD. :D

[3ple4]

I just got my white 2.2 ghz Macbook yesterday (Dec 19) and it's got a Fujitsu HD.

[internetworld7]

I just got my white 2.2 ghz Macbook yesterday (Dec 19) and it's got a Fujitsu HD.

Fantastic! :D I purchased mine from the Manhattan Village store in beautiful Manhattan Beach, California and mine had a Fujitsu HD as well. It's very possible that Apple has quietly pulled most of the Seagate models from it's stores which is great news if it's true.

Tomorrow my 2GB stick of memory will arrive from OWC. 1GB is nice starting off but you will eventually find that 2GB or more is far better in overall performance.

I'm not sure what browser you will use but for a great internet experience I recommend both the Saft plugin for Safari which is simply awesome and a must have and the Camino browser. Firefox 2.0 is slow, sluggish and at times very unstable. However Firefox 3 beta 2 is very promising and a major overhaul of the 2.0 version on a Mac.

Anyway, best of luck and enjoy your new Mac. :)

[3ple4]

Let's hope for the best with the Fujitsu HDs 8-)

So with the people who have the faulty Seagate HDs, you really can't boot up anymore? Not even access Time Machine for the backup files?

Yeah Firefox is slow but for some reason, I still prefer it over Safari. Never really like Safari.

[dunnka]

I feel compelled to add in my story. My HD died Dec 27th. I bought the macbook in June 06 in NYC. Unfortunatley I was not aware of user issues a month earlier and did not backup since October. My fault I know. It was a Seagate HD as discussed here.

Apple needs to do something with this issue. We all pay a premium price for a premium product. When a component of that product turns out to be defective I'd expect Apple to do something. It has been at least 1 month since reported and some are saying the issue was out there even before this.

Adding to my frustration is the fact I spent 90 minutes on the line with Apple technical support. On hold for 30 minutes then spoke to the first level of defense for 10 minutes then was informed he was getting his supervisor to help and I remained on hold for 50 mins and guess what ran up to thier closing time.

This was my first apple computer and the first time I needed support. I loved Apple and never regretted the switch from pc until now. Very let down by all of this. I need a second laptop now.. will it be a Mac...I am not so sure anymore.

Lesson learned, back up frequently, review this forum frequently and just because you pay more doesn't mean you are necessarily getting quality.

[internetworld7]

I feel compelled to add in my story. My HD died Dec 27th. I bought the macbook in June 06 in NYC. Unfortunatley I was not aware of user issues a month earlier and did not backup since October. My fault I know. It was a Seagate HD as discussed here.

Apple needs to do something with this issue. We all pay a premium price for a premium product. When a component of that product turns out to be defective I'd expect Apple to do something. It has been at least 1 month since reported and some are saying the issue was out there even before this.

Adding to my frustration is the fact I spent 90 minutes on the line with Apple technical support. On hold for 30 minutes then spoke to the first level of defense for 10 minutes then was informed he was getting his supervisor to help and I remained on hold for 50 mins and guess what ran up to thier closing time.

This was my first apple computer and the first time I needed support. I loved Apple and never regretted the switch from pc until now. Very let down by all of this. I need a second laptop now.. will it be a Mac...I am not so sure anymore.

Lesson learned, back up frequently, review this forum frequently and just because you pay more doesn't mean you are necessarily getting quality.

Wow, I feel your pain and frustration. No doubt you have every right to be angry and never use an Apple product again. While this has affected a certain number of Macs, fortunately this hasn't been the experience for most people switching to Macs.

Me and 3ple4 just got our Macs in November and December and they both have Fujitsu HD working smoothly. Also if you would like to give your Mac a second chance I would suggest visting Macsales.com and purchasing a non-Seagate HD and installing it. I didn't realize how easy it was to install a Hard Drive on a Macbook until I saw a video installation demo. I've installed 2GB of RAM on my new Macbook but I thought the HD would be much more complicated but it's just as simple as installing memory as seen by this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuyi-NWLLz4

Of course this doesn't remedy the fact that Apple support should be more competent and helpful but this is an affordable and viable solution. Hope this helps you consider staying with Apple in spite of your first experience with Apple hardware and support. :)

[dunnka]

Wow, I feel your pain and frustration. No doubt you have every right to be angry and never use an Apple product again. While this has affected a certain number of Macs, fortunately this hasn't been the experience for most people switching to Macs.

Me and 3ple4 just got our Macs in November and December and they both have Fujitus HD working smoothly. Also if you would like to give your Mac a second chance I would suggest visting Macsales.com and purchasing a non-Seagate HD and installing it. I didn't realize how easy it was to install a Hard Drive on a Macbook until I saw a video installation demo. I've installed 2GB of RAM on my new Macbook but I thought the HD would be much more complicated but it's just as simple as installing memory as seen by this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuyi-NWLLz4

Of course this doesn't remedy the fact that Apple support should be more competent and helpful but this is an affordable and viable solution. Hope this helps you consider staying with Apple in spite of your first experience with Apple hardware and support. :)

Thanks for your condolences. I have the macbook in with an authorized dealer who has ordered a replacement hard drive. He promised it would not be a seagate but likely a toshiba or hitachi. I will be sure to verify this when I get it back Wednesday. It will also be a 120 or a 160gb drive. Better than the 80gb I had. I watched him take out the hard drive and it does seem easy. Hopefully there will not ba a next time but if so I will do it myself.

I think you will love the macs. I know I did until now. I agree that apple likely switched from Seagate in current macbooks because of the known quality issue with Seagates in the previous macbooks.

Maybe I will get another MB for my second laptop. I guess I will wait and see how things work out with this current issue. If Apple chooses to ignore this problem I will not buy from Apple. To save face for me Apple needs to issue a recall and honor replacement drive costs for all users with these drives regardless if they are outside the warranty period. A lot of users are having this happen after the 1 year warranty period and a recall is the only way Apple with get back users trust IMHO.

[internetworld7]

Thanks for your condolences. I have the macbook in with an authorized dealer who has ordered a replacement hard drive. He promised it would not be a seagate but likely a toshiba or hitachi. I will be sure to verify this when I get it back Wednesday. It will also be a 120 or a 160gb drive. Better than the 80gb I had. I watched him take out the hard drive and it does seem easy. Hopefully there will not ba a next time but if so I will do it myself.

I think you will love the macs. I know I did until now. I agree that apple likely switched from Seagate in current macbooks because of the known quality issue with Seagates in the previous macbooks.

Maybe I will get another MB for my second laptop. I guess I will wait and see how things work out with this current issue. If Apple chooses to ignore this problem I will not buy from Apple. To save face for me Apple needs to issue a recall and honor replacement drive costs for all users with these drives regardless if they are outside the warranty period. A lot of users are having this happen after the 1 year warranty period and a recall is the only way Apple with get back users trust IMHO.

Yeah, you're right. Apple has pretty much left you hanging on this issue and they need to save face and issue a recall on defective Seagate drives. But it's highly unlikely once you have a new HD this will ever happen again. Right now I'm not even sure you can get a new Macbook from an Apple store that has a Seagate HD. None of the Macbooks at the Apple store in Manhattan Beach, CA have Seagate HD, most have Fujitsu. I'm pretty sure you will be happy with your larger and faster HD. Good luck and happy new year. :smokey:

[mattmcarroll]

Hello - just found this thread after trying to fix a relative's Macbook.

The Macbook
has a gray screen on startup
the drive doesn't show up when starting from install DVD and using Disk Utility
the disk doesn't show up in Firewire target disk mode

I tried all the standard troubleshooting tips...
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303234 (general troubleshooting tips including "making sure your battery isn't out of power)

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238 (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303234) (resetting PRAM and NVRAM) which didn't seem to work, because it never did the double-restart

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303319 (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303234) (resetting the System Management Controller) (SMC)

...and the problem remains.

I followed the instructions http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_13inch_HardDrive_DIY.pdf to get a look at the hard drive, and it was a Seagate. It has "FW 7.01" indicated on the label, which I assume means firmware version, which matches the "problem" firmware.

Has anyone had any luck with Apple replacing these drives?

When talking to Apple, do they acknowledge the problem?

Thank you

[johnv621]

Seeing a fresh post on this thread, I feel like i should add my two cents. My drive died after 18 months. I have apple care, and they offered to replace it, but they didn't have on in stock. They also work on an "exchange" program, so they'd have to send my drive back. I have data security issues with that. If they can't notify users of product defects, how can i expect them to properly manage my private data? I filed a BBB complaint and wrote apple a letter. Apple's response to the BBB specifically quoted the apple care agreement that it is my responsibility to back up the data. The never even acknowledged that there MIGHT have been a hard drive issue. I haven't received so much as an apology for my trouble.

Apple replied to my personal letter that I sent by asking me to call consumer relations. When i called, my "case info" had nothing attached to it except that they had received a letter. They stripped all of the information i had included, including the links to sites like this one that show apple "is aware" of the problem. Yet, from all i have seen, they have not done anything about it...

I thought a personal letter and a BBB complaint might turn some heads, but i guess not. Class action, anyone?

[PBG4 Dude]

If they offer to replace your hard drive, I dont' see where you have a case?

If you're worried about data, then take a couple of woofers / subs, crank up the tunes and sandwich the hard drive between the two magnets or find other electromagnets to scramble the data.

[JeffDM]

If they offer to replace your hard drive, I dont' see where you have a case?

If you're worried about data, then take a couple of woofers / subs, crank up the tunes and sandwich the hard drive between the two magnets or find other electromagnets to scramble the data.

It doesn't work that way, magnetic fields don't penetrate very well into metalic enclosures. Even if they did, I don't think those magnets would be strong enough. Hard drive magnetics aren't easy to change like floppies were.