AT&T plans 3G expansion ahead of second-gen iPhone

[AppleInsider]

AT&T said Wednesday it plans a major expansion of its wireless network during the 2008 calendar year, including the deployment of third-generation (3G) wireless broadband service to more than 80 additional cities in the United States through the course of the year.

The news comes just months before Apple is expected to take the wraps off its second generation iPhone , which, unlike the existing version, is expected to make broad use of 3G wireless technology. The current version of the touch-screen handset only functions on slower, 2.5G networks like AT&T's Edge.

The planned expansion is expected to deliver 3G services to nearly 350 leading U.S. markets by the end of 2008, AT&T said in a statement, including all of the top 100 U.S. cities. The 3G initiative will also include the roll out of more than 1,500 additional cell towers nationwide.

"With these aggressive initiatives, we're expanding the scope and the speed of our 3G capabilities, connecting people with their world and enabling more customers to do more with their wireless devices, wherever they may be," said AT&T Wireless chief executive Ralph de la Vega. "We're also planning for the future by establishing a clear path to a 4G network that will meet the needs of our customers for years to come."

While AT&T's Edge network supports a theoretical maximum download speed of is 473.6 Kilobits per second (Kbps), real-world speeds are presumed to be much closer to 200 Kbps. By comparison, the wireless provider says its 3G network now delivers typical downlink speeds ranging between 600 and 1,400 Kbps, as well as faster uplink speeds, ranging from 500 and 800 Kbps.

Though widely renowned for its advancements in software and interface design with the iPhone, Apple has been on the receiving end of much criticism for its decision to forgo 3G support in the inaugural version of the handset in favor of 2.5G support. The move, many argue, often results in a less than optimal web browsing experience, where web pages sometimes take several minutes -- rather than several seconds -- to fully load.

For its part, Apple has long maintained that a 3G iPhone is within its sights. However, company chief executive Steve Jobs has said that battery life on 3G devices has thus far proven too poor to commission a release.

"We've got to see the battery lives for 3G get back up into the five-plus-hour range,'' he said last September during the UK iPhone launch. "Hopefully we'll see that late next year.''

Since then, however, reports from at least one mainstream media publication have suggested a 3G iPhone could be ready for market by late May or early June. AT&T Inc. chief executive Randall Stephenson has also vouched for the arrival of a 3G iPhone in the near term, claiming in November that customers would "have it next year."

In some related news out of AT&T on Wednesday, the company also said its plans to complete the nation's first High Speed Uplink Packet Access (HSUPA)-enabled network by the middle of the year.

The deployment of HSUPA is the next step in the evolution of its 3G network with further enhancements and speed boosts expected in the near future. This year's HSUPA deployment will complete the transition of the AT&T 3G network to High Speed Packet Access (HSPA) standards, the carrier said, marking the only full transition by any wireless provider in the United States to this latest generation of wireless broadband capabilities.

"From the beginning, our wireless network has been designed with the future in mind," said de la Vega. "The capabilities of 3G standards will continue to expand over the next several years, enabling us to stay well ahead of our customers' broadband needs."[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=3715)

[nofear1az]

Sounds good to me, so, what speeds are the other carriers currently able to reach right now. I know Sprint and Verizon have speedy networks but don't know what their d-load speeds are at.

I was already predicting that Apple's 3G phone won't happen til' early 2009 and I still stand by that.

[crees!]

I was already predicting that Apple's 3G phone won't happen til' early 2009 and I still stand by that.

I'd say that prediction is off because of S.J.'s statement that 3G modules with Apple's required power specs won't hit the market till early '08.

[Bobo Decosta]

Wow the US enters the 21st century.

[CREB]

Well, I hope that AT&T lives up to its word as they have supposedly been upgrading all along (and like Edge's actual speed be prepared for the same with 3G). The problem is AT&T's shotgun effect of upgrading 3G. Apple also needs to get a clue, and provide an extended battery for those who want extended battery life.

[shanmugam]

wait! iPhone Pro coming?

why they released 16gb iPhone if 3G is coming soon? i do not understand the logic, i guess 3g is far away with 16g addition

[richmc]

Won't installing a 3G radio break the iPhone's world phone-ness? My understanding is that the US/AT&T uses different 3G frequencies from at least the countries in Europe and in order to fit all of the radios in the case others will have to come out. This was my experience with a a Motorola V3XX, at least.

[smokeonit]

HSDPA/HUSPA (down/upstream) = 7.2Mbit/2.0Mbit... (HSDPA has several speed bumps, at 7.2Mbit, 3.6Mbit, 1.8Mbit) but my guess is that at&t put the latest HSDPA in their new cell towers, bumping the speed to 7.2/2.0Mbit

[smokeonit]

Won't installing a 3G radio break the iPhone's world phone-ness? My understanding is that the US/AT&T uses different 3G frequencies from at least the countries in Europe and in order to fit all of the radios in the case others will have to come out. This was my experience with a a Motorola V3XX, at least.

Band I (W-CDMA 2100) in Europe and Asia (Brazilian and Canadian mobile carriers will deploy W-CDMA 2100 as well)
Band IV (W-CDMA 1700) in America (T-Mobile)
Band V (W-CDMA 850) in Australia (Telstra NextG), Brazil (Telemig Celular and Claro) and Canada (Rogers Wireless)
Band VIII (W-CDMA 900) in Europe (e.g. Elisa Oyj)
1900 / 850 (independently, for both the uplink and downlink) for the United States (AT&T Mobility)

good cell hardware is quad band for UMTS/HSDPA/HUSPA

the 3G iphone will work in north america as it will in europe, even australia... only if non W-CDMA is used the 2nd generation iphone will not be able to connect... but since roaming is still very expensive this is all very theoretical, unless one gets local SIM-card and avoids the roaming charges... that's the major advantage over sprint and the other providers using CDMA/TDMA in the USA, their hardware can not change their programmed provider... GSM/UMTS(HSDPA) is the way to go and in the long run the providers will switch to SIM-card based systems! hardware si cheaper and roaming charges from travelers can be collected...

[sapporobaby]

To the guy that stands by his 2009 prediction, you are probably the closest of them all but only off by about 3 years. 3G is more than just base stations, it is billing systems, all new radios, all new infrastructure. The experts in the field, i.e. the European operators took only 7 years to get it almost correct and you think AT&T, the worse operator in the world will do it in 2. Good luck. Now I know why the iPhone was launched in the US. Apparently gullible people are easier to fool outright. Did anyone see Apple file with the FCC for licenses for the 3G radios in the new 3G iPhone? Nope, didn't think so. This takes about 6 months to a year as well.

Stick to EDGE. This is suited to the slower way of thinking. Apple and AT&T have been jerking you guys around and you fall for it hook line and sinker every time. In the mean time, Nokia will release its new TS UI phones that they have had on the shelf to see if they were marketable (kudos to Apple for show the world is now ready for TS UI), and their new Ovi music/social networking service.

By the way, EDGE uses more power than 3G. Don't forget to believe the Apple lie about this too.

[sapporobaby]

Band I (W-CDMA 2100) in Europe and Asia (Brazilian and Canadian mobile carriers will deploy W-CDMA 2100 as well)
Band IV (W-CDMA 1700) in America (T-Mobile)
Band V (W-CDMA 850) in Australia (Telstra NextG), Brazil (Telemig Celular and Claro) and Canada (Rogers Wireless)
Band VIII (W-CDMA 900) in Europe (e.g. Elisa Oyj)
1900 / 850 (independently, for both the uplink and downlink) for the United States (AT&T Mobility)

good cell hardware is quad band for UMTS/HSDPA/HUSPA

the 3G iphone will work in north america as it will in europe, even australia... only if non W-CDMA is used the 2nd generation iphone will not be able to connect... but since roaming is still very expensive this is all very theoretical, unless one gets local SIM-card and avoids the roaming charges... that's the major advantage over sprint and the other providers using CDMA/TDMA in the USA, their hardware can not change their programmed provider... GSM/UMTS(HSDPA) is the way to go and in the long run the providers will switch to SIM-card based systems! hardware si cheaper and roaming charges from travelers can be collected...

Quick lesson.
Your statement: "the 3G iphone will work in north america as it will in europe, even australia... only if non W-CDMA is used the 2nd generation iphone will not be able to connect." The iPhone will connect to all GSM networks. Not the 3G networks, but will fall back to EDGE (if they make it EDGE capable still), and GSM networks. This is standard for any phone.

You say: "UMTS/HSDPA/HUSPA".

Answer: That's only two bands but for the sake of argument, I will assume you include GSM as well. Here you are talking about 900/1800mhz, as well as the US frequencies, i.e. 850mhz.

You say: "but since roaming is still very expensive this is all very theoretical, unless one gets local SIM-card and avoids the roaming charges... that's the major advantage over sprint and the other providers using CDMA/TDMA in the USA, their hardware can not change their programmed provider... GSM/UMTS(HSDPA) is the way to go and in the long run the providers will switch to SIM-card based systems! hardware si cheaper and roaming charges from travelers can be collected..."

Answer: Sorry but this is not theoretical. Europe has been a one SIM card user almost from the beginning. I have one SIM and I use my one phone (Nokia) all over the world, and I use my unlocked iPhone all over the world as well via ONE SIM card. SOOOOOOOOOO........ you are a bit incorrect in much of what you said but at least you are thinking.

[aduzik]

Even in Des Moines, a city of over half a million people, AT&T is still the only provider that has no 3G service. I've seen three different articles on AT&T's planned expansion, and none of them have given a list of cities they plan to expand to. I really hope that Des Moines is one of them.

I mean, I can't imagine Apple would be too happy selling a 3G iPhone at their West Des Moines store knowing that their customers will be limited to EDGE speeds. Apple certainly won't sell a 3G iPhone that doesn't work in their own stores!

[Bobo Decosta]

I hope they hurry up a bit because Europe is waiting for a 3G iPhone! I just broke my 3G phone this weekend and I refuse to buy an iPhone without 3G. How cool the iPhone is right now it still looks like a yesterdays phone without 3G.

[sapporobaby]

I hope they hurry up a bit because Europe is waiting for a 3G iPhone! I just broke my 3G phone this weekend and I refuse to buy an iPhone without 3G. How cool the iPhone is right now it still looks like a yesterdays phone without 3G.

Actually, you are correct. If you remove the UI and just look at the technology, the iPhone is 3 to 4 years old. Smart marketing and not so bright customers make for rich Apple/AT&T. Go take a look at Nokia's N82 or even the N81. These are "real" smartphone, offering real functionality.

[ahmlco]

According to the latest chart from AT&T, 38 states currently have some form of 3G support, though in many access is limited to just a handful of major metropolitan areas.

Until we have a network to run it on, having 3G in an iPhone is like owning a Ferrari in the middle of a sandy desert. Nice to look at, but it's not going to take you anywhere.

[Wally]

Quick lesson.
Your statement: "the 3G iphone will work in north america as it will in europe, even australia... only if non W-CDMA is used the 2nd generation iphone will not be able to connect." The iPhone will connect to all GSM networks. Not the 3G networks, but will fall back to EDGE (if they make it EDGE capable still), and GSM networks. This is standard for any phone.

You say: "UMTS/HSDPA/HUSPA".

Answer: That's only two bands but for the sake of argument, I will assume you include GSM as well. Here you are talking about 900/1800mhz, as well as the US frequencies, i.e. 850mhz.

You say: "but since roaming is still very expensive this is all very theoretical, unless one gets local SIM-card and avoids the roaming charges... that's the major advantage over sprint and the other providers using CDMA/TDMA in the USA, their hardware can not change their programmed provider... GSM/UMTS(HSDPA) is the way to go and in the long run the providers will switch to SIM-card based systems! hardware si cheaper and roaming charges from travelers can be collected..."

Answer: Sorry but this is not theoretical. Europe has been a one SIM card user almost from the beginning. I have one SIM and I use my one phone (Nokia) all over the world, and I use my unlocked iPhone all over the world as well via ONE SIM card. SOOOOOOOOOO........ you are a bit incorrect in much of what you said but at least you are thinking.

Congratulations! You just won the award for snottiest post ever! To claim your reward, simply blow your nose in some tissue, then hang the tissue on the wall! :lol:

P.S. I am fully aware of the potential hypocrisy of my post... I just had to say something... :p

[sapporobaby]

Congratulations! You just won the award for snottiest post ever! To claim your reward, simply blow your nose in some tissue, then hang the tissue on the wall! :lol:

P.S. I am fully aware of the potential hypocrisy of my post... I just had to say something... :p

No problems. I have a cold anyway. Thanks for the suggestion.

My response was probably due to day in and day out hearing how Apple and AT&T are doing all they can to help the customer and people buy it. Apple and AT&T is a biz who's loyalty is to the shareholder first and foremost. Bottom line.

To the OP, take heart, you are not the only one to have believed this line before.

Snotty attitude rescinded but factual info remains.

[faxthat]

"From the beginning, our wireless network has been designed with the future in mind," said de la Vega. "The capabilities of 3G standards will continue to expand over the next several years, enabling us to stay well ahead of our customers' broadband needs."

Even if they could come out with 4G next month, developers would respond with applications to make all that bandwidth too slow by end of summer.

U.S. wireless providers make their money by giving customers only subsistence level service -- just enough to get by and stay a nose ahead of the competition. It's a sick situation in which customers' broadband needs will never be met.

We don't need a new iPhone; we need a new wireless industry.

[amac4me]

Things are lining up nicely that favor a 3G iPhone launch by June. Will Apple release a 32GB 3G iPhone at that time? I think so.

[mdotdubz]

No problems. I have a cold anyway. Thanks for the suggestion.

My response was probably due to day in and day out hearing how Apple and AT&T are doing all they can to help the customer and people buy it. Apple and AT&T is a biz who's loyalty is to the shareholder first and foremost. Bottom line.

To the OP, take heart, you are not the only one to have believed this line before.

Snotty attitude rescinded but factual info remains.

:lol: People complain about 3G, yet Wifi is much faster than 3G anyways. If you can't find a wifi signal somewhere close by, you must live in the desert!

iPhone has wifi, and the iPhone safari browser loads pages much faster on EDGE than Nokia "smart"phones load pages on 3G! What does that tell you? Believing Nokia, or the typical Apple-bashers lies now are we? 8-)

[quinney]

We don't need a new iPhone; we need a new wireless industry.

I guess it is possible that if Google won the wireless spectrum auction,
they might shake things up, but it would likely be several years before
consumers got any benefit.

[Abster2core]

By the way, EDGE uses more power than 3G. Don't forget to believe the Apple lie about this too.

Until you supply support for your 'lie', I'll stick by Jobs when he stated,

"When we looked at 3G, the chipsets are not quite mature, in the sense that they're not low-enough power for what we were looking for. They were not integrated enough, so they took up too much physical space. We cared a lot about battery life and we cared a lot about physical size. Down the road, I'm sure some of those tradeoffs will become more favorable towards 3G but as of now we think we made a pretty good doggone decision."

and as supported in, amongst others, this article by AnaddTech. http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3036

[sapporobaby]

Until you supply support for your 'lie', I'll stick by Jobs when he stated,

"When we looked at 3G, the chipsets are not quite mature, in the sense that they're not low-enough power for what we were looking for. They were not integrated enough, so they took up too much physical space. We cared a lot about battery life and we cared a lot about physical size. Down the road, I'm sure some of those tradeoffs will become more favorable towards 3G but as of now we think we made a pretty good doggone decision."

and as supported in, amongst others, this article by AnaddTech. http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3036

I tend to get my info directly from Nokia and SE (do they still make phones) engineers as well as Vodafone, guys in the field building the network. EDGE starts out at full power and steps down as needed. 3G amps up if needed. Also 3 G antennae are lower and the cells a bit more dense to provide better coverage.

Come to Europe, see real mobile telephony in action.
By the way, I know Steve is your hero. No worries dude.

At the end of the day, Apple could release a 3G iPhone tonight and there are very few places it would run. If it had the right radios, it would probably work here in Europe and the rest of the world. AT&T is pulling your leg with the 3G on the way song. It takes YEARS to roll out a network.

[ebrunn]

I guess it is possible that if Google won the wireless spectrum auction,
they might shake things up, but it would likely be several years before
consumers got any benefit.

Google dosent need to win it. They just have to stick to their $4.6B minimum bid so that standard remains open.

[drnat]

Actually, you are correct. If you remove the UI and just look at the technology, the iPhone is 3 to 4 years old. Smart marketing and not so bright customers make for rich Apple/AT&T. Go take a look at Nokia's N82 or even the N81. These are "real" smartphone, offering real functionality.

I don't care what the innards are like & if they are 20 year old designs. The use of the iPhone is what matters to me & it is vastly superior to all the many Nokia's & SE phones that I have had - 3G ones included

The functionality of the iPhone is perfect for me - faster downloads would be nice, bit doesn't affect my enjoyment & looking at internet sites is soo much better than with other phones that I am really pleased with it. This coupled with the integration with my apply computer makes it great.

In fact, I am just sitting next to a colleague who loves her iPhone that much that she has swapped her windows laptop for a 15" MBP (which she is using as I type & loves!)

3G iPhone will be nice, but hasn't diminished my enjoyment of the 2.5G version

[jbelkin]

People shout they want a flying car - you can buy one for $350k, you still want one?

People shout they want 3G but are they willing to pay $60 a month EXTRA like Sprint now?

Are they willing to accept a 2 hour battery life?

http://2aday.wordpress.com/2007/12/02/att-ceo-leaks-news-of-iphone-going-3g/

[JeffDM]

:lol: People complain about 3G, yet Wifi is much faster than 3G anyways. If you can't find a wifi signal somewhere close by, you must live in the desert!

That's more than a bit much to say. I ran the numbers on a major city and by land area, the open WiFi APs cover about 0.01% of the city.

iPhone has wifi, and the iPhone safari browser loads pages much faster on EDGE than Nokia "smart"phones load pages on 3G! What does that tell you? Believing Nokia, or the typical Apple-bashers lies now are we? 8-)

Nokia aren't the only makers of 3G hardware.

But I haven't seen a claim like yours, even on this site.

[smokeonit]

Quick lesson.
Your statement: "the 3G iphone will work in north america as it will in europe, even australia... only if non W-CDMA is used the 2nd generation iphone will not be able to connect." The iPhone will connect to all GSM networks. Not the 3G networks, but will fall back to EDGE (if they make it EDGE capable still), and GSM networks. This is standard for any phone.

You say: "UMTS/HSDPA/HUSPA".

Answer: That's only two bands but for the sake of argument, I will assume you include GSM as well. Here you are talking about 900/1800mhz, as well as the US frequencies, i.e. 850mhz.

You say: "but since roaming is still very expensive this is all very theoretical, unless one gets local SIM-card and avoids the roaming charges... that's the major advantage over sprint and the other providers using CDMA/TDMA in the USA, their hardware can not change their programmed provider... GSM/UMTS(HSDPA) is the way to go and in the long run the providers will switch to SIM-card based systems! hardware si cheaper and roaming charges from travelers can be collected..."

Answer: Sorry but this is not theoretical. Europe has been a one SIM card user almost from the beginning. I have one SIM and I use my one phone (Nokia) all over the world, and I use my unlocked iPhone all over the world as well via ONE SIM card. SOOOOOOOOOO........ you are a bit incorrect in much of what you said but at least you are thinking.

1st: regarding GSM, i was talking about data services only, not voice... (and when connected to 3G your phones does everything via that cnnection, also voice. once your back on a GSM channel you will do your voice via GSM again)

2nd: roaming, if you use your home SIM-card everywhere in the world you must be pretty rich, or your company pays the horrendous bill... for people like me that are self employed and always try to save a buck or two it makes sense to have SIM card for each country you regularly travel to. i don't take my SIM-card out if i travel to that country only once... doesn't make sense economically...

[GQB]

I tend to get my info directly from Nokia and SE (do they still make phones) engineers as well as Vodafone, guys in the field building the network. EDGE starts out at full power and steps down as needed. 3G amps up if needed. Also 3 G antennae are lower and the cells a bit more dense to provide better coverage.

Come to Europe, see real mobile telephony in action.
By the way, I know Steve is your hero. No worries dude.

At the end of the day, Apple could release a 3G iPhone tonight and there are very few places it would run. If it had the right radios, it would probably work here in Europe and the rest of the world. AT&T is pulling your leg with the 3G on the way song. It takes YEARS to roll out a network.

He asked for supporting evidence, not 'a friend of a friend told me once' BS.
Your ode to "Nokia and SE" reveal your troll status. Go back under your bridge or supply evidence, not hearsay.

[smokeonit]

Congratulations! You just won the award for snottiest post ever! To claim your reward, simply blow your nose in some tissue, then hang the tissue on the wall! :lol:

P.S. I am fully aware of the potential hypocrisy of my post... I just had to say something... :p

thank you for speaking out on my behalf;-)

[smokeonit]

:lol: People complain about 3G, yet Wifi is much faster than 3G anyways. If you can't find a wifi signal somewhere close by, you must live in the desert!

iPhone has wifi, and the iPhone safari browser loads pages much faster on EDGE than Nokia "smart"phones load pages on 3G! What does that tell you? Believing Nokia, or the typical Apple-bashers lies now are we? 8-)

not really true, the latest HSDPA standard is 7.2/14.4Mbit (7.2Mbit readily available)

my DSL @ home is 16Mbit down, but i think i'm one of the lucky few with broadband that fast @ home (i know, there's faster lines, but hose are even more rare, especially in the US. here in germany average is below 6Mbit, in the US average is between 1.5-3.0Mbit)

[smokeonit]

I tend to get my info directly from Nokia and SE (do they still make phones) engineers as well as Vodafone, guys in the field building the network. EDGE starts out at full power and steps down as needed. 3G amps up if needed. Also 3 G antennae are lower and the cells a bit more dense to provide better coverage.

Come to Europe, see real mobile telephony in action.
By the way, I know Steve is your hero. No worries dude.

At the end of the day, Apple could release a 3G iPhone tonight and there are very few places it would run. If it had the right radios, it would probably work here in Europe and the rest of the world. AT&T is pulling your leg with the 3G on the way song. It takes YEARS to roll out a network.

your raging about Apple but believe Nokia???

real liufe tests have shown that most nokia 3G hardware empty their batteries within 2 hours! compare that to an iphone on EDGE/GPRS... my iphone normally has 50% left after 2 hours of internet on my cell providers GPRS network...

and the big testing authorities also confirm that 3G phones are empty after around 2 hours of use on a 3G network....

[ros3ntan]

Sounds good to me, so, what speeds are the other carriers currently able to reach right now. I know Sprint and Verizon have speedy networks but don't know what their d-load speeds are at.

I was already predicting that Apple's 3G phone won't happen til' early 2009 and I still stand by that.

Whenever that is, I still want one. I cant lived without my iphone.. its my im, my email, my web browser, my ipod, and my phone..

[smokeonit]

I don't care what the innards are like & if they are 20 year old designs. The use of the iPhone is what matters to me & it is vastly superior to all the many Nokia's & SE phones that I have had - 3G ones included

The functionality of the iPhone is perfect for me - faster downloads would be nice, bit doesn't affect my enjoyment & looking at internet sites is soo much better than with other phones that I am really pleased with it. This coupled with the integration with my apply computer makes it great.

In fact, I am just sitting next to a colleague who loves her iPhone that much that she has swapped her windows laptop for a 15" MBP (which she is using as I type & loves!)

3G iPhone will be nice, but hasn't diminished my enjoyment of the 2.5G version

i couldn't agree more;-)

[ros3ntan]

your raging about Apple but believe Nokia???

real liufe tests have shown that most nokia 3G hardware empty their batteries within 2 hours! compare that to an iphone on EDGE/GPRS... my iphone normally has 50% left after 2 hours of internet on my cell providers GPRS network...

and the big testing authorities also confirm that 3G phones are empty after around 2 hours of use on a 3G network....

whatever your argument is, 3G takes up more battery than EDGE when used.

[ros3ntan]

:lol: People complain about 3G, yet Wifi is much faster than 3G anyways. If you can't find a wifi signal somewhere close by, you must live in the desert!

iPhone has wifi, and the iPhone safari browser loads pages much faster on EDGE than Nokia "smart"phones load pages on 3G! What does that tell you? Believing Nokia, or the typical Apple-bashers lies now are we? 8-)

some 3g has a download speed ranging from 1mbps to 2.5 mbps. Kinda expensive though..

[ros3ntan]

not really true, the latest HSDPA standard is 7.2/14.4Mbit (7.2Mbit readily available)

my DSL @ home is 16Mbit down, but i think i'm one of the lucky few with broadband that fast @ home (i know, there's faster lines, but hose are even more rare, especially in the US. here in germany average is below 6Mbit, in the US average is between 1.5-3.0Mbit)

are talking bit or byte? there is a difference.. Bit is smaller than byte..

[ros3ntan]

Even if they could come out with 4G next month, developers would respond with applications to make all that bandwidth too slow by end of summer.

U.S. wireless providers make their money by giving customers only subsistence level service -- just enough to get by and stay a nose ahead of the competition. It's a sick situation in which customers' broadband needs will never be met.

We don't need a new iPhone; we need a new wireless industry.

what do you mean wireless industry? dont we have one already??

[ros3ntan]

Things are lining up nicely that favor a 3G iPhone launch by June. Will Apple release a 32GB 3G iPhone at that time? I think so.

hahahahah maybe i'll wait for that one.. or should i wait for the 64GB iphone for $1000?? hahahah

[ros3ntan]

People shout they want a flying car - you can buy one for $350k, you still want one?

People shout they want 3G but are they willing to pay $60 a month EXTRA like Sprint now?

Are they willing to accept a 2 hour battery life?

http://2aday.wordpress.com/2007/12/02/att-ceo-leaks-news-of-iphone-going-3g/

you are rite.. lets hope ATT will keep the same rate as EDGE

[ros3ntan]

Even if they could come out with 4G next month, developers would respond with applications to make all that bandwidth too slow by end of summer.

U.S. wireless providers make their money by giving customers only subsistence level service -- just enough to get by and stay a nose ahead of the competition. It's a sick situation in which customers' broadband needs will never be met.

We don't need a new iPhone; we need a new wireless industry.

As much as i love to get the latest tech, its gonna be too expensive and i think its gonna use a lot more battery (not too sure about that one, havent seen one..) in either case, it will be expensive

[CREB]

Even if they could come out with 4G next month, developers would respond with applications to make all that bandwidth too slow by end of summer.

U.S. wireless providers make their money by giving customers only subsistence level service -- just enough to get by and stay a nose ahead of the competition. It's a sick situation in which customers' broadband needs will never be met.

We don't need a new iPhone; we need a new wireless industry.
Finally, someone here hit it on the head!

[JeffDM]

what do you mean wireless industry? dont we have one already??

You left out the "new". That's the entire problem, the current one sucks and blows at the same time.

[Constable Odo]

Sounds good to me, so, what speeds are the other carriers currently able to reach right now. I know Sprint and Verizon have speedy networks but don't know what their d-load speeds are at.

I was already predicting that Apple's 3G phone won't happen til' early 2009 and I still stand by that.

No way it will take that long for the 3G iPhone to be introduced. June or July 2008 at the latest. :no: Apple has to be ready for the Asian rollout (Korea, Japan and China). They'll have to be 3G ready. Whether GPS is on-board I can't be sure. Apple might as well roll GPS in because every other top handset maker will have it on their best phones. They'd better throw in at least a 3MP camera too.

Apple created a problem for itself by making the iPhone so thin. Hard to get great battery life when there's not much room for a battery.:lol:

[Ronbo]

I tend to get my info directly from Nokia and SE (do they still make phones) engineers as well as Vodafone, guys in the field building the network. EDGE starts out at full power and steps down as needed. 3G amps up if needed. Also 3 G antennae are lower and the cells a bit more dense to provide better coverage.

Come to Europe, see real mobile telephony in action.
By the way, I know Steve is your hero. No worries dude.

At the end of the day, Apple could release a 3G iPhone tonight and there are very few places it would run. If it had the right radios, it would probably work here in Europe and the rest of the world. AT&T is pulling your leg with the 3G on the way song. It takes YEARS to roll out a network.

Read the article from Anandtech the previous poster gave you, and please try and stop being such a hate-filled blowhard. You may actually learn something. The Blackjack clearly uses more power while actually surfing on 3G vs EDGE. 3G seems to serve it better when it's idle, compared with EDGE. But when using the faster WiFi, the iPhone actually uses less battery than when it's using EDGE. Also, you'll find a picture where they illustrate the superior chip integration of EDGE vs 3G (which, in addition to battery life, was one of the things Steve criticized). The overall assessment was that the Apple design decisions were fairly reasonable. I know, I know, you'll still need to vent your vile spleen about how much you hate Apple and Jobs.

By the way, you misspelled your sig. "Sapporo" is is a city in northern Japan. I believe "sapro" was the prefix you were looking for.

[ros3ntan]

You left out the "new". That's the entire problem, the current one sucks and blows at the same time.

new wireless network is it wifi or is it cellphone wireless? For wifi is really expensive, and cellphone's wireless, well.. its is expensive too, but the demand for it is higher. It takes time though

[smokeonit]

whatever your argument is, 3G takes up more battery than EDGE when used.

i am making the argument for that... did you read my post???

[apple20]

I have a 4GB iPhone and will most definitely upgrade to the 3G when it comes out. But - will my 4GB iPhone continue to work as an iPod?

Not liking the idea that the 2.5G iPhone will become useless without any service.

[JeffDM]

new wireless network is it wifi or is it cellphone wireless? For wifi is really expensive, and cellphone's wireless, well.. its is expensive too, but the demand for it is higher. It takes time though

I think what was meant was replacing the cell industry, which I would agree if that's what was meant.

I do agree with you on the WiFi part, WiFi isn't any good at coverage, it's good at short range, high speed link, that's it. The current means of extending the range of WiFi ends up being an unreliable and expensive kluge.

[smokeonit]

are talking bit or byte? there is a difference.. Bit is smaller than byte..

as you should see, if you read my post, bit!

[sapporobaby]

1st: regarding GSM, i was talking about data services only, not voice... (and when connected to 3G your phones does everything via that cnnection, also voice. once your back on a GSM channel you will do your voice via GSM again)

2nd: roaming, if you use your home SIM-card everywhere in the world you must be pretty rich, or your company pays the horrendous bill... for people like me that are self employed and always try to save a buck or two it makes sense to have SIM card for each country you regularly travel to. i don't take my SIM-card out if i travel to that country only once... doesn't make sense economically...

1. Fair enough. It was not clear at first. I agree with you a blazillion %

2. I was talking about the iPhone being able to work on any network as long as the radio was inside. The current iPhone works on any network now (hacked ones that is), so unless Apple plans to shoot themselves in the foot, they will continue this tradition.

[sapporobaby]

:lol: People complain about 3G, yet Wifi is much faster than 3G anyways. If you can't find a wifi signal somewhere close by, you must live in the desert!

iPhone has wifi, and the iPhone safari browser loads pages much faster on EDGE than Nokia "smart"phones load pages on 3G! What does that tell you? Believing Nokia, or the typical Apple-bashers lies now are we? 8-)

Hi mdotdubz,

Safari's browser is pretty darned fast. I give you that. It is also optimized to be so, but I will not use this as an excuse. The Opera browser on most Nokia phones is pretty darned good as well. No Nokia loving here as they do stupid things as well. By the way, I bash Apple (I have 2 MPB's, iPod Touch, iPhone, various iPods, Apple TV) when they need bashing. I feel that if I pay my money, they have to do what I want. They are working for my $, not the other way around.

[sapporobaby]

I don't care what the innards are like & if they are 20 year old designs. The use of the iPhone is what matters to me & it is vastly superior to all the many Nokia's & SE phones that I have had - 3G ones included

The functionality of the iPhone is perfect for me - faster downloads would be nice, bit doesn't affect my enjoyment & looking at internet sites is soo much better than with other phones that I am really pleased with it. This coupled with the integration with my apply computer makes it great.

In fact, I am just sitting next to a colleague who loves her iPhone that much that she has swapped her windows laptop for a 15" MBP (which she is using as I type & loves!)

3G iPhone will be nice, but hasn't diminished my enjoyment of the 2.5G version

Fair enough. In my opinion, the iPhone is more iPod than phone. My parallels to other phones was to show what the iPhone could be. For the most part it is technologically a very old phone.

[sapporobaby]

He asked for supporting evidence, not 'a friend of a friend told me once' BS.
Your ode to "Nokia and SE" reveal your troll status. Go back under your bridge or supply evidence, not hearsay.

You personal attack (believe me, I don't mind. Bring it on) denote you "Delta-Hotel" status.

[sapporobaby]

thank you for speaking out on my behalf;-)

I do believe that I explained myself in my response to your post. If you did not read it, so be it.

[sapporobaby]

your raging about Apple but believe Nokia???

real liufe tests have shown that most nokia 3G hardware empty their batteries within 2 hours! compare that to an iphone on EDGE/GPRS... my iphone normally has 50% left after 2 hours of internet on my cell providers GPRS network...

and the big testing authorities also confirm that 3G phones are empty after around 2 hours of use on a 3G network....

What real life tests are these?

The E90 will run for 36 hours using 3G/HSDPA, wifi, phoning. The N95 (8gb) 3 hours, N82 (48 hours). Are you talking earth hours here or Blartonian galactic hours. Your "real" world tests are way off.

[Bobo Decosta]

Actually, you are correct. If you remove the UI and just look at the technology, the iPhone is 3 to 4 years old. Smart marketing and not so bright customers make for rich Apple/AT&T. Go take a look at Nokia's N82 or even the N81. These are "real" smartphone, offering real functionality.

I will never buy any Nokia product anymore. I had 5 Nokia phones in a timeframe of 2 years so don't remind me on the poor quality of these phones. I just want an iPhone with 3G. Nothing else will do!

[sapporobaby]

Read the article from Anandtech the previous poster gave you, and please try and stop being such a hate-filled blowhard. You may actually learn something. The Blackjack clearly uses more power while actually surfing on 3G vs EDGE. 3G seems to serve it better when it's idle, compared with EDGE. But when using the faster WiFi, the iPhone actually uses less battery than when it's using EDGE. Also, you'll find a picture where they illustrate the superior chip integration of EDGE vs 3G (which, in addition to battery life, was one of the things Steve criticized). The overall assessment was that the Apple design decisions were fairly reasonable. I know, I know, you'll still need to vent your vile spleen about how much you hate Apple and Jobs.

By the way, you misspelled your sig. "Sapporo" is is a city in northern Japan. I believe "sapro" was the prefix you were looking for.

Hey Ronda,

I go by actual test from labs. Considering I spend quite a bit of time with engineers from the equipment manufacturers. See, the engineers aren't bound by marketing stats they have to follow and parrot. The facts speak for themselves. Alot of the battery life lies in the implementation and build out of the network as well.

By the way, you assumes I spelled it wrong being as you had no idea. Most lemmings don't.

[smokeonit]

Hi mdotdubz,

Safari's browser is pretty darned fast. I give you that. It is also optimized to be so, but I will not use this as an excuse. The Opera browser on most Nokia phones is pretty darned good as well. No Nokia loving here as they do stupid things as well. By the way, I bash Apple (I have 2 MPB's, iPod Touch, iPhone, various iPods, Apple TV) when they need bashing. I feel that if I pay my money, they have to do what I want. They are working for my $, not the other way around.


a browser has to be fast, how can you hold that against safari??? LOL

stupid things as well??? why do you keep on bashing apple, all your arguments so far have been discarded!

[smokeonit]

Fair enough. In my opinion, the iPhone is more iPod than phone. My parallels to other phones was to show what the iPhone could be. For the most part it is technologically a very old phone.

your talking absolut troll... to call the iphone old... yeah right, LOL...

[sapporobaby]

I have a 4GB iPhone and will most definitely upgrade to the 3G when it comes out. But - will my 4GB iPhone continue to work as an iPod?

Not liking the idea that the 2.5G iPhone will become useless without any service.

It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE. I to not think (God I hope not) AT&T will simply dump EDGE. Stranger things have happened though.

[smokeonit]

What real life tests are these?

The E90 will run for 36 hours using 3G/HSDPA, wifi, phoning. The N95 (8gb) 3 hours, N82 (48 hours). Are you talking earth hours here or Blartonian galactic hours. Your "real" world tests are way off.

36 hours using 3G, yeah right, your outing yourself more and more as someone who has no clue... whatsoever... please stop making claims that are untrue and made up...

[sapporobaby]

your talking absolut troll... to call the iphone old... yeah right, LOL...

You are talking out of you posterior. I said (read the words this time) technologically old. TS UI's are not new. They have been around. SE, Nokia, Samsung (can't remember the phone) have all had them. Apple has a better implementation on an old idea. No one is taking that away. Go and compare any Motorola, SE, Nokia, Samasung spec wise to the iPhone and then you may loose your "hook, line and sinker" believer status.

[Bobo Decosta]

:lol: People complain about 3G, yet Wifi is much faster than 3G anyways. If you can't find a wifi signal somewhere close by, you must live in the desert!

iPhone has wifi, and the iPhone safari browser loads pages much faster on EDGE than Nokia "smart"phones load pages on 3G! What does that tell you? Believing Nokia, or the typical Apple-bashers lies now are we? 8-)

Guess you must be a US resident! Yes 3G ain't faster than Wifi but all over my country I have access to 3G not to Wifi and no I don't live in the desert. People just lock up their wifi and free acces points are very rare in Europe.

If I had the choice between 3G and a 4G iPhone I still would buy the 3G version because 3G is everywhere. EDGE might be faster on an iPhone then 3G on a Nokia but we don't have EDGE overhere and I don't plan to buy a Nokia phone so it just doesn't matter to me.

[smokeonit]

What real life tests are these?

The E90 will run for 36 hours using 3G/HSDPA, wifi, phoning. The N95 (8gb) 3 hours, N82 (48 hours). Are you talking earth hours here or Blartonian galactic hours. Your "real" world tests are way off.

then talk or visit the big pc magazines that made those test, they will be really happy to entertain your delusions...

[smokeonit]

Hey Ronda,

I go by actual test from labs. Considering I spend quite a bit of time with engineers from the equipment manufacturers. See, the engineers aren't bound by marketing stats they have to follow and parrot. The facts speak for themselves. Alot of the battery life lies in the implementation and build out of the network as well.

By the way, you assumes I spelled it wrong being as you had no idea. Most lemmings don't.

no comment.... lol...

[sapporobaby]

36 hours using 3G, yeah right, your outing yourself more and more as someone who has no clue... whatsoever... please stop making claims that are untrue and made up...

Uhhhhh..... Do you even know what an E90 is. Obviously you don't. There is this new thing called the Internets (as said by Prez Bush). Use "The Google" and do a search for E90, N82, N81.

Stay in school and off drugs.

[smokeonit]

You are talking out of you posterior. I said (read the words this time) technologically old. TS UI's are not new. They have been around. SE, Nokia, Samsung (can't remember the phone) have all had them. Apple has a better implementation on an old idea. No one is taking that away. Go and compare any Motorola, SE, Nokia, Samasung spec wise to the iPhone and then you may loose your "hook, line and sinker" believer status.

TTH...

[smokeonit]

Uhhhhh..... Do you even know what an E90 is. Obviously you don't. There is this new thing called the Internets (as said by Prez Bush). Use "The Google" and do a search for E90, N82, N81.

Stay in school and off drugs.

2x TTH... LOL...

[sapporobaby]

2x TTH... LOL...

You are funny.

Cheers.

[Ronbo]

Hey Ronda,

I go by actual test from labs. Considering I spend quite a bit of time with engineers from the equipment manufacturers. See, the engineers aren't bound by marketing stats they have to follow and parrot. The facts speak for themselves. Alot of the battery life lies in the implementation and build out of the network as well.

By the way, you assumes I spelled it wrong being as you had no idea. Most lemmings don't.

"The facts speak for themselves" you say. They certainly do. The Anandtech article is full of facts. And I can't see where you've listed a single fact, saprobaby. I didn't think you'd bother to educate yourself before you replied, and I was right. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. Oh well. Your loss.

Don't you get claustrophobic living in that cramped up little world of hate? Or do you find the narrowness somehow perversely comforting? Please don't answer. It just makes me tired all over reading your troll-speak.

[ros3ntan]

i am making the argument for that... did you read my post???

i meant to support you.. hahaha

[ros3ntan]

as you should see, if you read my post, bit!

ok.. just making sure

[ros3ntan]

Hi mdotdubz,

Safari's browser is pretty darned fast. I give you that. It is also optimized to be so, but I will not use this as an excuse. The Opera browser on most Nokia phones is pretty darned good as well. No Nokia loving here as they do stupid things as well. By the way, I bash Apple (I have 2 MPB's, iPod Touch, iPhone, various iPods, Apple TV) when they need bashing. I feel that if I pay my money, they have to do what I want. They are working for my $, not the other way around.

i dont get how one browser is faster than the other.. is it depend on the internet connection? or am i missing something...

[quinney]

"The facts speak for themselves" you say. They certainly do. The Anandtech article is full of facts. And I can't see where you've listed a single fact, saprobaby. I didn't think you'd bother to educate yourself before you replied, and I was right. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. Oh well. Your loss.

Don't you get claustrophobic living in that cramped up little world of hate? Or do you find the narrowness somehow perversely comforting? Please don't answer. It just makes me tired all over reading your troll-speak.

He hasn't caught your "sapro-" slag yet. Funny :lol:

[sapporobaby]

i dont get how one browser is faster than the other.. is it depend on the internet connection? or am i missing something...

The way they render the images or data. Safari is very good at this. The other browsers use SVG engines and sometimes Java. Java is pretty slow even on full-blown computers, not to mention how slow on some handhelds. A faster connection will assure higher data rates but it does not guarantee faster drawing of the images once they reach the intended device.

[sapporobaby]

"The facts speak for themselves" you say. They certainly do. The Anandtech article is full of facts. And I can't see where you've listed a single fact, saprobaby. I didn't think you'd bother to educate yourself before you replied, and I was right. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt. Oh well. Your loss.

Don't you get claustrophobic living in that cramped up little world of hate? Or do you find the narrowness somehow perversely comforting? Please don't answer. It just makes me tired all over reading your troll-speak.

You bring a 7 month article out from a guy who's job is to sell you stuff and you taut this as gospel from an expert? Yup, you got lemming all over your bone head. You stick with Stevie Boy and I will rely on the word of network designers, and engineers. They tend to only sell the facts.

As for benefit of the doubt, you don't have to give me anything. I tried to imagine that you have a shred of intellect and it seems we were both let down. No loss though. I guess it must get tiring getting beat up day after day on the way home for school and imagining that Steve Jobs makes computers just for you. Maybe you will get that invite to an Apple party where Steve will introduce you as his best friend. Now, but to your mom's basement. I am sure you have a half empty pizza and a 2 litre Diet Pepsi waiting. Soon the the puberty will pass and your voice will deepen. Then you will discover there are these wonderful things called girls.

[sapporobaby]

He hasn't caught your "sapro-" slag yet. Funny :lol:

You are almost as bad as he. There is a word: ignore. Go look it up. Obviously he is trying to tell me how I meant to spell something when he and now you have no idea what it means. Does that make you as terminally stupid as he or just uninformed?

[apple20]

Ignore what sapporobaby said. Your 4GB iPhone will stop working. The iPhone is useless until activated by a two year contract with AT&T cellular service and it returns to a useless state once your contract ends. It won’t take calls, play music, or do just about anything. Switching your service to another iPhone means the previous one doesn’t have service. As a result, it stops working. Again, ignore what sapporobaby said.

But don’t worry, apple20. When you upgrade consider giving your 4GB iPhone as a gift to a close friend, who knows it is used but well taken care of. Are they going to complain for getting a used $400 cell phone? Hey, it’s your friend, right? Another option is simply selling it. Since some people, like yourself, bought a 4 GB iPhone rather than 8GB to save $100 to $200 (along with other reasons), I’m sure you’ll find someone happy to buy your 4GB iPhone for around $200.

Apple and AT&T might release a new plan in 2009 which allows users to pay a small fee, perhaps around $50 or so, and that activates the iPhone for everything but cellular service, which more or less turns it into the iTouch. I say this because, at that time, there will be over six million of us who demand our older iPhones continue to work - to some capacity. Apple20, I hope this info helps.

This certainly does help and confirms my suspicions. It is my hope that Apple realize how many people will upgrade from the original 2.5G iPhones to the 3G ones and offer the upgrade to "iTouch" functionality right then and there. Thanks!

[nofear1az]

To the guy that stands by his 2009 prediction, you are probably the closest of them all but only off by about 3 years. 3G is more than just base stations, it is billing systems, all new radios, all new infrastructure. The experts in the field, i.e. the European operators took only 7 years to get it almost correct and you think AT&T, the worse operator in the world will do it in 2. Good luck. Now I know why the iPhone was launched in the US. Apparently gullible people are easier to fool outright. Did anyone see Apple file with the FCC for licenses for the 3G radios in the new 3G iPhone? Nope, didn't think so. This takes about 6 months to a year as well.

Stick to EDGE. This is suited to the slower way of thinking. Apple and AT&T have been jerking you guys around and you fall for it hook line and sinker every time. In the mean time, Nokia will release its new TS UI phones that they have had on the shelf to see if they were marketable (kudos to Apple for show the world is now ready for TS UI), and their new Ovi music/social networking service.

By the way, EDGE uses more power than 3G. Don't forget to believe the Apple lie about this too.

Well I never said I was an expert, a stock analyst, or even a prophesier, I only was just making a point that it is NOT going to happen this year as several people make it out to be.

[sapporobaby]

Well I never said I was an expert, a stock analyst, or even a prophesier, I only was just making a point that it is NOT going to happen this year as several people make it out to be.

My bad nofear1az. It came across that you were speaking from a network position. My bad once again. 3G networks are not like the old 2.5G's. You can't reuse much. It is a totally new ball game.

[sapporobaby]

Don't worry about it, nofear1az. Ignore what sapporobaby said because he doesn't know what he's talking about. Verizon has fiber available to many major United States cities and they are aggressively installing more, much like AT&T with 3G. AT&T will accomplish most (if not all) of what it plans to do by the end of 2008. Combined with the upcoming 3G iPhone both Apple and AT&T will be greatly rewarded for their exclusive five year deal.

AT&T already has a functional 3G network in the United States. They were working on expanding it even before the first iPhone came out. Apple knew that, which is why Steve made the right choice to start with EDGE then release a 3G as, within a year later, AT&T would increase and intensify it's 3G coverage. AT&T is working on other features as well, which will have a very powerful advantage over other cellular services within the next year. Let's just say one of those features is tied up in legal affairs / negotiations between various parties, but once the details are completed AT&T will be well on its way to winning the cellular service market.

So from a hardware, software, billing, network, or any other aspect one considers implementing 3G in the United States, AT&T is charging ahead full steam. AT&T’s 3G network benefits all AT&T customers that have a 3G cell phone – not just those with an iPhone. Because of that, they will accomplish their expansion this year.

You continue to say that I do not know what I am talking about have only our rabid mouth to back you up. You are cordially invited to prove me in correct. How many core elements will be usable from the old network into the new 3G network? Will they need new basestations or will the old ones work? How about antennas? Which ones will they use and the heights that they will be mounted.

nofear1az, contrary to what Mr. No Cred says, a 3G network is not a five minute rollout. AT&T will have a 3G network for sure but not to the extent that one might think. It is simply a big undertaking. The European operators took YEARS to do it, and some are still not done. 3G will come in spots, most likely the metropolitan areas first, then the rural areas. Its mainly up to the network designers and the build out plan. It was not a matter of Steve making the "right" choice but Steve making the only choice for the US. The lack of a cohesive 3G network tied his hands but did allow him to launch the iPhone with the next best thing. He approached the operators in Finland with the iPhone, arguably the most mature mobile market in the world but, was turned back because Finnish law requires that all subscription based phones have 3G services, which of course the iPhone currently lacks. The Finns were not about to change their laws to accommodate Apple so for the most part, the Scandinavian regions and Finland (Finland is not Scandinavian but actually Nordic) will most likely not see an iPhone for a bit.

[bigdaddyp]

You continue to say that I do not know what I am talking about have only our rabid mouth to back you up. You are cordially invited to prove me in correct. How many core elements will be usable from the old network into the new 3G network? Will they need new basestations or will the old ones work? How about antennas? Which ones will they use and the heights that they will be mounted.

nofear1az, contrary to what Mr. No Cred says, a 3G network is not a five minute rollout. AT&T will have a 3G network for sure but not to the extent that one might think. It is simply a big undertaking. The European operators took YEARS to do it, and some are still not done. 3G will come in spots, most likely the metropolitan areas first, then the rural areas. Its mainly up to the network designers and the build out plan. It was not a matter of Steve making the "right" choice but Steve making the only choice for the US. The lack of a cohesive 3G network tied his hands but did allow him to launch the iPhone with the next best thing. He approached the operators in Finland with the iPhone, arguably the most mature mobile market in the world but, was turned back because Finnish law requires that all subscription based phones have 3G services, which of course the iPhone currently lacks. The Finns were not about to change their laws to accommodate Apple so for the most part, the Scandinavian regions and Finland (Finland is not Scandinavian but actually Nordic) will most likely not see an iPhone for a bit.

Last fall I woke up to a pleasant surprise. Att had installed/upgraded the whole west Michigan area to 3g coverage. Very few people new that they were doing this and it was not advertised until after they activated the upgrade. That is service to an area that has almost 500,000 people in it. I don't know how difficult it was for them to implement but from a user perspective it appeared to be flawless.
The only down side is I moved to Georgia two weeks later and am back on edge.:grumble:

[sapporobaby]

Last fall I woke up to a pleasant surprise. Att had installed/upgraded the whole west Michigan area to 3g coverage. Very few people new that they were doing this and it was not advertised until after they activated the upgrade. That is service to an area that has almost 500,000 people in it. I don't know how difficult it was for them to implement but from a user perspective it appeared to be flawless.
The only down side is I moved to Georgia two weeks later and am back on edge.:grumble:

Hey bigdaddyp,

No doubt it was an undertaking. I say this simply from the prospect of being part of the bid and build out. Let me tell you, "it ain't fun". Well, it is when it all works. :) I am pretty sure that AT&T began their upgrade/build out/roll out, etc..... well in advance of the fall. The biggest problem with 3G is that the further away you get from the core network, i.e. MSC, the more work you have to do and equipment you have to change.

[Kephisto]

I have a 4GB iPhone and will most definitely upgrade to the 3G when it comes out. But - will my 4GB iPhone continue to work as an iPod?

Not liking the idea that the 2.5G iPhone will become useless without any service.

It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE. I to not think (God I hope not) AT&T will simply dump EDGE. Stranger things have happened though.No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”.

I have great news for you, though, apple20. Last night I went to both the AT&T and Apple stores to discover that ending our AT&T contract (early or not) already turns our iPhone more or less into the iTouch – at no charge. It will say “No service” at the top and will not make calls, take calls, or accept new voicemails. Anything that uses EDGE will not work either. That means weather, stocks, safari, email, and maps, among other related features, just won’t work. AT&T allows you to use EDGE as part of your iPhone cellular service. If you don’t have their service you immediately lose access to EDGE.

However, here’s the funny part (because I didn’t know this) : Wi-Fi continues to work, as does all information and media content unless trying to sync it with a computer that is not authorized to play your purchased content. This means you can select your Wi-Fi network and then use it to access weather, stocks, etc.. You can also use the other features, such as pictures, music and videos. Thus, right now, at no charge, the iPhone will become an iTouch when we’re finished with our contract or upgrade. Just remember to remove purchased content before selling it or giving it away. While it will continue to play on the iPhone their computer won’t play purchased content without being authorized.

For what I’ve said about the iPhone not working without an AT&T contract, I have nothing to be ashamed of. As I have not personally terminated my AT&T contract with the iPhone, nor do I know anyone who has, I was stating my current knowledge on the subject based on statements made by David Pogue. He’s a very smart, respected, and experienced professional. Who is David Pogue?

“David Pogue is the weekly tech columnist for the New York Times. He’s an Emmy award winning CBS News reporter, tech correspondent for the NPR’s “Morning Edition”, creator of the Missing Manual book series (in which he authored or co authored 17 of them), wrote 6 “For Dummies” titles, and overall has written 43 books.”

Hoping not to upset those that own the rights to the book (by posting part of it here), David Pogue stated on page 262 of the “iPhone Missing Manual” : “Until you activate, the iPhone can’t do much of anything. It can’t make calls, play music or video, or get on the Internet. So no, you can’t buy an iPhone and hope to use it as a fancy iPod: Without an AT&T account, it just won’t work. Signing up for AT&T service is required.

For that matter, the iPhone is a locked GSM phone, meaning that it works only with an AT&T account. It won’t work with Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, or any other carrier, and you can’t insert the SIM card from a non AT&T phone and expect it to work.”

I’m not placing blame on the innocent David Pogue. I’m merely stating that without personal experience with terminating an AT&T account with the iPhone or knowing someone that has, I wisely turned to information provided by someone who knows a lot about the iPhone because he worked directly with Apple to write a book on it. He states two times, across two paragraphs, that the iPhone won’t work without an AT&T contract.

With the new iTunes rental movies, Apple has a secure means of locking content after a certain time period, whether on your computer or iPhone. Since you need iTunes to activate and upgrade the iPhone, sync it, and rental movies are controlled and removed by iTunes according to the time period, it followed along with what David Pogue said, which implies ending your AT&T contract would have the same effect on the iPhone. Apple could (if they wanted to) deactivate an iPhone through iTunes. It's not a stupid idea because Apple has already proven they know how to do that. In fact, they've already done it. Their recent software upgrades have effectively deactivated (or ruined) those that upgraded their unlocked iPhones. However, they really don't need iTunes to deactivate iPhones.

Instead of determining if unofficial Apple software was installed on the iPhone (to warrent deactivation) all Apple would have to do is let the iPhone check its own internal logs and determine (just for instance) if it has not made or received any calls within a set span of time – such as three weeks, implying the cell service was terminated. If not used for that length of time, it “upgrades” to a non-working version. Software wise, that is rather simple to do.

Overall, as it stands today, ending your AT&T contract merely removes access to all cellular related functions, including EDGE. Yet you can use some of those cellular related functions if they work over an accessible Wi-Fi.

Again, I’m not placing blame on the innocent David Pogue. If sapporobaby wants to call me an idiot then experienced professionals with tons of creditials, such as David Pogue, are in the same boat with me. Ahem, which suits me just fine.

It will still have service. It will simply ride on GSM and EDGE. I to not think (God I hope not) AT&T will simply dump EDGE. Stranger things have happened though.No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”. It will function like the iTouch. I would email David Pogue about this but chances are he already knows and plans to write an updated version to the "iPhone Missing Manual".

[sapporobaby]

No, it will not “still have service” and “simply ride on GSM and EDGE”.

I have great news for you, though, apple20. Last night I went to both the AT&T and Apple stores to discover that ending our AT&T contract (early or not) already turns our iPhone more or less into the iTouch – at no charge. It will say “No service” at the top and will not make calls, take calls, or accept new voicemails. Anything that uses EDGE will not work either. That means weather, stocks, safari, email, and maps, among other related features, just won’t work. AT&T allows you to use EDGE as part of your iPhone cellular service. If you don’t have their service you immediately lose access to EDGE.

However, here’s the funny part (because I didn’t know this) : Wi-Fi continues to work, as does all information and media content unless trying to sync it with a computer that is not authorized to play your purchased content. This means you can select your Wi-Fi network and then use it to access weather, stocks, etc.. You can also use the other features, such as pictures, music and videos. Thus, right now, at no charge, the iPhone will become an iTouch when we’re finished with our contract or upgrade. Just remember to remove purchased content before selling it or giving it away. While it will continue to play on the iPhone their computer won’t play purchased content without being authorized.

Hmmmm...... I wonder if this tidbit of good news was delivered via PM at: 19:11 on 02-07-2008, and read at 06:23 EST on 02-08-2008? How coincidental this "good news". Lucky for us someone is "so" on the ball.

Apple20: as a paid for device, your iPhone will naturally become an iPod Touch. You could have found this out like I did by simply calling: 1-800-331-0500 AT&T Customer Service. You can also activate the same iPhone simply by purchasing another plan. It seems that a few posts back you were told that your iPhone will not function at all. I wonder if this will be corrected by the person making those incorrect statements? Time will tell.

By the way Apple20, here is a simple test you can run. Turn off your phone. Turn it back on. If yours has the pin code enabled it will say "Sim Locked". Simply click the "OK" button. Now your wifi, and other services will continue to function. It is as though you have no SIM card in your phone. This is exactly what will happen when you either take your SIM out or if your service is deactivate. As you can see, your iPhone still functions. It would seem that the info you received from Kephisto is wrong, and quite easy to verify. You might want to reconsider anything he says. Use verifiable sources.

[lundy]

Tracking this thread now. The last post being 2 days old, nothing will be done at this point.

Any more personal attacks or posting of PMs will result in a permaban.

[amerist]

"If you build it, they will come"