Preventing Spammy Posts

[bclapper]

I've noticed a few spammy / advertising posts lately from 1st timers. Are these 'autobot' posts by creating accounts and replying to a google search script (if that's possible) or human spammers?

Was wondering if there should or could be a way to crack down before it get's out of hand

Obviously, the persistent human is a lot harder to stop creating several user accounts

Any thoughts?

Loving the site, keep up the good work

[audiopollution]

I've noticed a few spammy / advertising posts lately from 1st timers. Are these 'autobot' posts by creating accounts and replying to a google search script (if that's possible) or human spammers?

Was wondering if there should or could be a way to crack down before it get's out of hand

Obviously, the persistent human is a lot harder to stop creating several user accounts

Any thoughts?

Loving the site, keep up the good work

Yeah, they're bot postings.

Trust me, I'd love to be able to reduce spam to zero here.

[NOFEER]

can't you develop a filter, or like some websites to sign up you have to repeat some weird shaped letters that a "bot" can't figure out

we should simply recognize them and not view them so there count goes to zero and passes by
like some of my questions on the genius bar:lol:

[Slewis]

Null.

[audiopollution]

Bots can sometimes figure them out anyway, and doesn't AI already use CAPTCHAs? I don't remember since it's been a while since I signed up.

Sebastian

Yep, we do use captchas. As you can tell, they're virtually useless. :(

[icfireball]

Yep, we do use captchas. As you can tell, they're virtually useless. :(

Really? I used to get hundreds of spam comments per day in the form of comments on my site, but when I implemented CAPTCHA I've never gotten a spam comment since.

I took a look at the registration CAPTCHAS and no OCR software could read those. The spammers may be posting the threads/spam automatically, but I think you have humans signing up for the spam accounts.

In order to get rid of spam, I'd implement a probationary period, if possible. Something like this: new users can't post new content for 3 days and their first 10 comments are moderated.

[Slewis]

Null.

[audiopollution]

Really? I used to get hundreds of spam comments per day in the form of comments on my site, but when I implemented CAPTCHA I've never gotten a spam comment since.

I took a look at the registration CAPTCHAS and no OCR software could read those. The spammers may be posting the threads/spam automatically, but I think you have humans signing up for the spam accounts.

In order to get rid of spam, I'd implement a probationary period, if possible. Something like this: new users can't post new content for 3 days and their first 10 comments are moderated.

http://sam.zoy.org/pwntcha/

[Marvin]

I think the image idea is best. Just have a set of say 10 pictures that are numbered and then have an internal database as to what the picture is. So say 1.jpg = owl, 2.jpg = superman, 3.jpg = boat. Then ask the user what is in the picture. How can a bot figure that out without advanced image analysis?

If they only get one try to guess, the bot can't brute force it and IMO it's way easier than trying to figure out those scrambled messages.

[Endyoursearch]

I agree, just keep up to date to try to prevent spamming.

[icfireball]

http://sam.zoy.org/pwntcha/

Here is one example of the captcha I use:
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/7793/1237830888uc5.jpg
It's customizable to the point where I can add noise, lines, change the font to any true type font I provide, and exclude or include certain characters, numbers, and symbols. Also, once thing I notice about it's implementation is that the images that appear are generated dynamically with php, so they are not generated and stored as image files -- meaning that once the page has loaded and the captcha displayed, no image file exists. So the embed code for the captcha image would look like this:
<img src="/image_captcha/1939250506" />
But that's not an image file so when when you try to load that in a browser, you get nothing.

On the other side of things, I also use reCAPTCHA (http://recaptcha.net/) for another site, which seems to be extremely effective. reCAPTCHA aims at providing captcha challenges to prevent spam, but also to digitize books by having humans translate the scanned words into text. Some of the letters are completely unrecognizable as individual letters, but because the letters are in full words, the human brain can understand.

[mydo]

You should filter on known spammers. You know if there are more than X "$" or "0" in a post then don't post it but also don't tell the user that it didn't get posted.

[icfireball]

A moderator or admin has to approve every new user before they can post.
A moderator or admin has to approve the first 5-10 posts of a new user.

[hmurchison]

This is more of a proposal to vbulletin.

Spammers typically target the whole board with items for sale. If vbulletin could add a way to automatically filter some "spammy" posts that would be cool. For instance

Messagesboards that have items sold every now and then could implement a solution like this.

1. Create a "for sale" section on the boards. ALL items for sale would be sold here and only here.

2. For sale items would have to have "FS." in the main title. Any post to the "for sale" section that does not have a "FS." appened to the title would automaticall be deleted and a PM would be sent to the author.

Spammers that attempt to add sale items in other areas would find their posts automatically torched immediately.

As a secondary percaution there'd be a "spam" button on every post. New posts would be subject to this spam button for say a predetermined amount of time. A threshold would be set so that say if a new post hits and enough users deem it spam it's removed after receiving too many hits.

Fighting spam is going to take tiered approach but I'm sure it can effectively be dealt with

[Silviar]

Isn't there also a way to filter out certain posts and mark them for review before they're allowed to be posted? People who spam for sale posts tend to put the same type of words/phrases in them.

[mydo]

The spam is increasing again. Any action coming from admin's or mod's. The mod's seem to be asleep at the switch.

[icfireball]

Just make the first 10 posts moderated!

[bclapper]

Just make the first 10 posts moderated!

I 2nd that!

[mydo]

Boy this porn spam (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=88041) has been in general discussion for 18 hours now. I reported it about 12 hours ago.

Still there.:err:

[icfireball]

Boy this porn spam (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=88041) has been in general discussion for 18 hours now. I reported it about 12 hours ago.

Still there.:err:

I agree.

Right now = Today, 2:58 PM
Porny post = Yesterday, 5:11 PM

Still not deleted.

That's ridiculous.

[mydo]

8:38pm still there

[grahamw]

8:38pm still there

6:57PM PST It's gone.

Could I ask a favour? If you see spam, would you mind reporting it please? It really would help in the cleanup. I realize that an ounce of prevention equals a pound of cure but I've only got cure on tap, so any help would be appreciated.

There's a report button on the bottom left hand side of every post. Please feel free to report spam when you see it. I'll do my best to clean as I go.

Edit: I should note that I was only added to the report list for that forum today. I'll do my best to be on the ball for you. Thanks!

[icfireball]

6:57PM PST It's gone.

Could I ask a favour? If you see spam, would you mind reporting it please? It really would help in the cleanup. I realize that an ounce of prevention equals a pound of cure but I've only got cure on tap, so any help would be appreciated.

There's a report button on the bottom left hand side of every post. Please feel free to report spam when you see it. I'll do my best to clean as I go.

Edit: I should note that I was only added to the report list for that forum today. I'll do my best to be on the ball for you. Thanks!

I usually report spam and porn, but honestly there's too much now to report everything, I don't even open the threads anymore.

[mydo]

6:57PM PST It's gone.

Could I ask a favour? If you see spam, would you mind reporting it please? It really would help in the cleanup. I realize that an ounce of prevention equals a pound of cure but I've only got cure on tap, so any help would be appreciated.

There's a report button on the bottom left hand side of every post. Please feel free to report spam when you see it. I'll do my best to clean as I go.!

Actually I'm going to stop reporting spam because it never seems to help. I report so much I hit the 30 second wait limit between posts. I officially give up.

Edit: I should note that I was only added to the report list for that forum today. I'll do my best to be on the ball for you. Thanks!

Then something is wrong with your reporting system.

[Samnuva]

It seems to me that most of the Spammy Posts say the SAME EXACT THING! Could A filter be installed to prevent that block of test from being posted.

[grahamw]

something is wrong with your reporting system.

Just a quick note: I'm a volunteer. This is no more my reporting system than it is yours. I would still appreciate the continued help, if possible. Hopefully you'll see an improvement in reaction time.

Thanks.

[icfireball]

Just a quick note: I'm a volunteer. This is no more my reporting system than it is yours. I would still appreciate the continued help, if possible. Hopefully you'll see an improvement in reaction time.

Thanks.

I know you're doing your best, and thank you, but this thread is aimed at people who *can* take precautionary measures against spam. The thread title is "Preventing Spammy Posts" not "Destroying Spammy Posts."

[mydo]

Just a quick note: I'm a volunteer. This is no more my reporting system than it is yours. I would still appreciate the continued help, if possible. Hopefully you'll see an improvement in reaction time.

Thanks.

Yea I'm a volunteer too. Either way if someone doesn't see a benefit to their hard work then they stop participating.

[groverat]

Why does spam bother you so much, mydo?

[mydo]

It's like your posts, annoying and unproductive.

[groverat]

OH SNAP! MEGABURN!

I personally like getting awesome deals on iPhones and Viagra so...

[audiopollution]

It seems to me that most of the Spammy Posts say the SAME EXACT THING! Could A filter be installed to prevent that block of test from being posted.

Nope.

[audiopollution]

Actually I'm going to stop reporting spam because it never seems to help. I report so much I hit the 30 second wait limit between posts. I officially give up.

Oh well.

[audiopollution]

Obviously, we need a solution.

If each forum member pledges $20/month, I will stay on AI a minimum of 16 hours/day 365 days/year as a human spam filter.

How does 7am to 11pm (EST) sound?

I promise to have all the overnight spam deleted by the time you're drinking your morning coffee.

I'll get a payment system set up.

[icfireball]

Oh well.

How about:

Moderated first 10 posts. That would solve a lot of problems.

[audiopollution]

How about:

Moderated first 10 posts. That would solve a lot of problems.

Not a chance unless I have some volunteers for mod positions. :\

Unfortunately, 'Unpaid Position For Boring and Endless Click-work' isn't exactly a tempting job posting.

[icfireball]

Not a chance unless I have some volunteers for mod positions. :\

Unfortunately, 'Unpaid Position For Boring and Endless Click-work' isn't exactly a tempting job posting.

Here's are a few model that may alleviate the labor, although would be rather complex to set up initially:

New user's posts are moderated until 5 (or maybe 3) of their posts have been approved by experienced AI users.


New users signs up
New users creates post
New user cannot create another post until that post has been approved (this prevents mass spaming that has to all be deleted).
Experienced AI users (has over 500+ posts, for example) are able to see such pre-moderated posts
Experienced AI users can approve or disapprove the thread or public viewing.
If a thread is approved, the user can post more threads and the thread is publicly visible to everyone.
If a thread is disapproved by two users, it's deleted.
Once the user has posted the certain number of moderated posts and they have all been approved, the user is unmoderated.
Two posts with two disprovals on each of the two posts in the probation period result in an immediate ban.


And about CAPTCHAS:
1) Have you tried RECAPTCHA? It's very good at tricking OCR because it uses real words that are only readable because the human brain can interpret even if some letters are totally indistinguishable. Also, it helps digitize books.
2) Have you tried more creative CAPTCHAS? For example, a picture of a random picture of an animal is displayed and the user has to type in the animal appearing in the picture.

[audiopollution]

And about CAPTCHAS:
1) Have you tried RECAPTCHA? It's very good at tricking OCR because it uses real words that are only readable because the human brain can interpret even if some letters are totally indistinguishable. Also, it helps digitize books.
2) Have you tried more creative CAPTCHAS? For example, a picture of a random picture of an animal is displayed and the user has to type in the animal appearing in the picture.

If, as some have mentioned, the spam sign-ups are fronted by a human during registration then using Recaptcha would be useless.

I will look into improving the captcha system ... but, as I've mentioned before, the vB mod/hack must be able to withstand an upgrade to the forums without borking even more things than vB screw themselves on each time they issue a point upgrade.

[grahamw]

Not a chance unless I have some volunteers for mod positions. :\

Unfortunately, 'Unpaid Position For Boring and Endless Click-work' isn't exactly a tempting job posting.

Hey, that's how I got the job ;)

[icfireball]

If, as some have mentioned, the spam sign-ups are fronted by a human during registration then using Recaptcha would be useless.

I will look into improving the captcha system ... but, as I've mentioned before, the vB mod/hack must be able to withstand an upgrade to the forums without borking even more things than vB screw themselves on each time they issue a point upgrade.

Yea, that was me that said that:

I took a look at the registration CAPTCHAS and no OCR software could read those. The spammers may be posting the threads/spam automatically, but I think you have humans signing up for the spam accounts.


That's why I think some kind of moderation is best.

[mslater]

Hello, new here, and just reported my first two spam messages, and a suspect spammer account, too! Go me!

May I suggest a small fee for registrations, via paypal? I'm sure that we can all pony up $5 for an account. We'd be instantly rid of ALL spam, cut down on the joke/spammer/sockpuppet accounts, increase the level of discourse (morons & trolls rarely want to pay), and all live happily ever after. As a bonus, you'd get insanely rich*!

Also, I'm not sure if there are any europe-based mods, but if there aren't, you should look in to that so that spammers don't abuse the system while the mods are sleeping ;)

*Not entirely true

[Galley]

13 identical spam posts (more luxurious). Something has to be done soon. :(

[bclapper]

What about a 1 post per day limit on new users until they get the all clear?

[progmac]

here's a thought...

new users can post immediately but can only start a thread after 2 or 3 or 5 posts. maybe that would do it? thanks for your work on this mods

[MacAloy]

I have noticed 3-4 in the last 2 days alone and I always love the way they describe the 3G iPhone :lol:

[bclapper]

Personally, I think it's better to report the annoying advertisers than to reply and bump them to the top of the 'new' posts list.

Of course, ignoring them is also an effective method if they get zero hits from their links from here

[yama]

How about new users have to make 5-10 posts before they are allowed to start their own threads?

All of the spam threads are being started by users who have just signed up. If you force them to make comments in existing threads before they are able to make their own, might that reduce the amount of spam?

Also, the first 5-10 posts wouldn't have to be moderated. If someone starts posting spam in an existing thread I think they are much more likely to be reported by readers because people are already actively watching that thread.

[edit]
Just noticed progmac suggested the exact same thing - DOH!

Another thing, it would be great if you could reduce the time limit between reports.

It would help us speed up reporting multiple spam threads, especially the ones where the first post is spam (usually DVD rippers) and then there's one or more follow-up spams with garbage like "thanks for sharing your infos. very useful".

[bclapper]

^ what he said

[icfireball]

^ what he said

^ what he said

[mydo]

I've concluded that AI must be making money off the spam. That is to say they allow advertising in the form of forum posts that to us look like spam.

[icfireball]

I've concluded that AI must be making money off the spam. That is to say they allow advertising in the form of forum posts that to us look like spam.

It appears Mydo has been banned... for that comment?

[spinnerlys]

It appears Mydo has been banned... for that comment?

I was asking myself the same question.

Do permanent bans exist here? I once was on a board, where you could be banned for a limited amount of time like a week or month or life (maybe two, if you really were annoying).


Back on topic:

I detected less spammers in the last weeks. A month ago, there were multiple threads in multiple forums advertising the shit out of some phones or other technical equipment.

I don't know about the 5-10 posts until you can start a thread rule. A lot of people just register to ask one or two questions regarding a problem with their Mac by starting a new thread about it. Having this rule wouldn't hold back spammers, as they just spam some existing threads and then start their own, but would hold back new registrars that just want to have a problem solved.

My two øre.

[melgross]

I just received a private mail spam post from a "tom2008".

This is the post:


hi, is this your topic ????? http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=88954. Thanks! AppleHelper

When I clicked on the link within my private page, this came up:

http://www.shop4shoes.us/

Can this individual be removed from membership? I can't believe that I'm the only one bothered by him.

[bclapper]

I think I had something similar a few months ago from another username

[melgross]

I think I had something similar a few months ago from another username

I've had no response about this from management so far.

[lundy]

I just received a private mail spam post from a "tom2008".

This is the post:



When I clicked on the link within my private page, this came up:

http://www.shop4shoes.us/

Can this individual be removed from membership? I can't believe that I'm the only one bothered by him.

Since you included his username, I could ban him. I've gotten a lot of these as PMs, but the username that sent them often isn't included, so I don't know who to ban.

I have received these myself. He spoofs the URL to his shoes site so that it looks like an AI forum URL.

If you get any more, add the username and send it on to me.

[melgross]

Since you included his username, I could ban him. I've gotten a lot of these as PMs, but the username that sent them often isn't included, so I don't know who to ban.

I have received these myself. He spoofs the URL to his shoes site so that it looks like an AI forum URL.

If you get any more, add the username and send it on to me.

Yup, though I hope I don't get any more.:lol:

[SpamSandwich]

Hi Lundy, you may have noticed that AI is getting slammed with porn spam. Any way to implement a 'captcha' system for all posts? The spam posts are getting completely out of control. Thanks.

[icfireball]

Hi Lundy, you may have noticed that AI is getting slammed with porn spam. Any way to implement a 'captcha' system for all posts? The spam posts are getting completely out of control. Thanks.

There is a very simple solution: moderation of all new users. The end.

[melgross]

Hi Lundy, you may have noticed that AI is getting slammed with porn spam. Any way to implement a 'captcha' system for all posts? The spam posts are getting completely out of control. Thanks.

Gee, and I just get ads for shoes!

[SpamSandwich]

Gee, and I just get ads for shoes!

This stuff is being posted to the main boards, I didn't receive it as an e-mail.

[melgross]

This stuff is being posted to the main boards, I didn't receive it as an e-mail.

I haven't seen it so far.

[MrShow]

Well this spam situation is just beyond out of control. Now there are spam posts within legit threads. I report them when I can but nothing seems to happen with the posts. I'm willing to volunteer moderate. Shit I'm on the forum or site all day anyway. Something needs to happen or I hate to say it, because I'm a long time reader, but I'm going to have to find another place to get my Mac rumors and speculation.

Please please fix this.
MrShow

[lundy]

Well this spam situation is just beyond out of control. Now there are spam posts within legit threads. I report them when I can but nothing seems to happen with the posts. I'm willing to volunteer moderate. Shit I'm on the forum or site all day anyway. Something needs to happen or I hate to say it, because I'm a long time reader, but I'm going to have to find another place to get my Mac rumors and speculation.

Please please fix this.
MrShow

I delete every single one that gets reported to me or that I come across. We have changed the registration to require a human answer but maybe the bots can circumvent that too.

I probably delete and ban 10 or 15 a day.

[icfireball]

I delete every single one that gets reported to me or that I come across. We have changed the registration to require a human answer but maybe the bots can circumvent that too.

I probably delete and ban 10 or 15 a day.

It's very very simple: moderation for the first 5-10 posts.

[lundy]

It's very very simple: moderation for the first 5-10 posts.

Do you know of a way to do that in vBulletin? I'd gladly review all the first posts of new registrants. But there is no way I can find to set that.

[icfireball]

Do you know of a way to do that in vBulletin? I'd gladly review all the first posts of new registrants. But there is no way I can find to set that.

You can do it with Usergroup Promotions. Set the registered usergroup so it's posts are moderated and then promote users with 10 approved posts to a usergroup with more permissions (i.e. no moderation).

That's the best I can think of for now.

[melgross]

Well this spam situation is just beyond out of control. Now there are spam posts within legit threads. I report them when I can but nothing seems to happen with the posts. I'm willing to volunteer moderate. Shit I'm on the forum or site all day anyway. Something needs to happen or I hate to say it, because I'm a long time reader, but I'm going to have to find another place to get my Mac rumors and speculation.

Please please fix this.
MrShow

Well, no one's here more than me, even when I'm not posting (now I can be here when all I have is my iPhone!), and I have to tell you that while it's annoying, its not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.

[MrShow]

Well, no one's here more than me, even when I'm not posting (now I can be here when all I have is my iPhone!), and I have to tell you that while it's annoying, its not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be.
Well I'm not sure what you're used to but of all the forums I visit I rarely if ever see spam posts like this. Just visit the Future Hardware section. There's a bunch of topics started by spamers. It's just aggravating as hell and it makes me wonder if the powers that be care that much.

[lundy]

You can do it with Usergroup Promotions. Set the registered usergroup so it's posts are moderated and then promote users with 10 approved posts to a usergroup with more permissions (i.e. no moderation).

That's the best I can think of for now.

Yeah , but I can't figure out how to set a group so that its posts are moderated. I made my own test account and couldn't get it to put its post into any kind of moderation queue, even though there definitely is a moderation queue.

If I could figure out how to make posts go into a queue, that would also be a solution to banning people.

[melgross]

Yeah , but I can't figure out how to set a group so that its posts are moderated. I made my own test account and couldn't get it to put its post into any kind of moderation queue, even though there definitely is a moderation queue.

If I could figure out how to make posts go into a queue, that would also be a solution to banning people.

How about giving the developers of the software a call? Maybe there are options that the site doesn't have.

[MrShow]

Is there a way we can fight back against these sites? Report them to someone or some organization? DoS attack them? (is that illegal?) These fuckers just piss me off so much. rrrrrrrrr

[Omega]

Just increase the amount of moderators. Simple. Fixed.

(and no not asking - too busy)

[dcsimages]

Just increase the amount of moderators. Simple. Fixed.

(and no not asking - too busy)

If deleting posts and banning the infringers doesn't take any more time than reporting the post, considering the 60 sec timeout between reports, I'll happily volunteer to be a moderator.

Dave Smith

[Omega]

If deleting posts and banning the infringers doesn't take any more time than reporting the post, considering the 60 sec timeout between reports, I'll happily volunteer to be a moderator.

Dave Smith

Problem is that the powers that be are not too interested in the spam epidemic. It is the shit that is going down in the PO that is causing the headaches. Are you willing to don the flame retardant suit?

[dcsimages]

Problem is that the powers that be are not too interested in the spam epidemic. It is the shit that is going down in the PO that is causing the headaches. Are you willing to don the flame retardant suit?

I volunteered to help get rid of the commercial spam which is invading every forum, not to get into the cesspool that is PO which, by the way, seems to be doing it's job.

If you don't like what's going on in there don't go. I don't.

The spam is affecting every forum.

Dave Smith

[groverat]

ban China and India IP ranges

[yama]

I'll volunteer to be a spam cop if it helps. Can't guarantee I'll be on the forum 24/7 though...