Report waves caution at shadiness of would-be Mac clone maker

[AppleInsider]

A brief investigation into Psystar Corporation reveals the self-proclaimed Mac cloner maker to have no operating history prior to this week, and further suggests the company may be little more than one-man basement operation.

Given the company's claims of a $400 Mac system and a vow to battle Apple over its Mac OS X licensing terms, the Guardian's Charles Arthur decided to do some digging on the integrity of the much talked about Miami-based solutions reseller.

The results? Not promising. Although the Psystar.com website was registered back in 2000, Google and other search engines turn up absolutely no references to the company prior to this week's news that it would offer an unauthorized Mac system.

"I called the Miami Chamber of Commerces and its Better Business Bureau," Arthur wrote. "They've never heard of it."

What's more, Psystar appears to have hastily relocated on Tuesday to an industrial park within Miami's north-west side, according to an address change posted to its website. On Monday, the company's address was listed as 10645 SW 112 Street -- a three bedroom home built in 1957 along a row of suburban houses (below).

As part of his investigation, Arthur also put in calls to phone numbers listed on Psystar's website. After a dead end at "Human Resources," he was able to get an unnamed individual on the phone by selecting the option for "Customer Support."

That individual, however, referred all of the reporter's questions to Psystar's press email, from which replies have not been forthcoming. When asked if there were many individuals like himself working in the company's support division, the individual then claimed that he was not a support representative and was instead "just answering the phones."

An address listed on Psystar's website Monday points to this suburban Miami home.

"But you know what's most interesting?," Arthur added. "Apple's complete silence on this. It hasn't said a word. I suspect that it's waiting to see if anything emerges from this."

Update: The most recent industrial park address for Psystar belongs to a packing supply firm called USA KOEN PACK whose manager has never heard of Psystar.

A new address listed on Psystar's website Tuesday points to this shipping company.

Update 2: AppleInsider reader Shane writes in to let us know that quick glance of the source code for Psystar.com reveals the company's webpages was slapped together with help from this web template.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=3964)

[Zlyden]

"One-man basement operation"?

What a shame...

There should be at least two men and some garage involved if they plan to rival Apple Inc. in the future...:)

[xirtus]

"One-man basement operation"?

What a shame...

There should be at least two men and some garage involved when if they plan to rival Apple Inc. in the future...:)

well said, you beat me right to the punch...

I feel like saying, "what???? nerds building computers from their house to sell on the internet? thats utterly absurd! name one company, one company that started that way! -except for all of them... before they became incorporated and infested with the aristocratical shareholders like a virus"


it's almost preposterous I know, but there was a time before the old neonazis had so successfully crossed over wallstreet...


I remember when the google kids tried to rent out my grandfathers office and he said no because he thought it sounded silly...

now they have a masonic temple of their own...

all I'm saying is buy a computer from this guy first instead of stocking his house and putting your findings up on this site like it was anonym0us or something...

[brasso]

"and further suggests the company may be little more than one-man basement operation."

let's stick with the Garage.....there are NO basements in Miami!!
8-)

[Samnuva]

Busted!!

[steviet02]

all I'm saying is buy a computer from this guy first instead of stocking his house and putting your findings up on this site like it was anonym0us or something...

1) Would you be willing to give this 'company' your credit card information to buy one?

2) You don't think this is relevant information considering the website for the company has multiple products on it?

3)You don't really think that they released ALL of their products at the same time do you?

[xirtus]

1) Would you be willing to give this 'company' your credit card information to buy one?

2) You don't think this is relevant information considering the website for the company has multiple products on it?

3)You don't really think that they released ALL of their products at the same time do you?

you are taking "corporation" too seriously.

if this really is a one man operation, than yes, you would release your full game at once, instead of half assing it along until someday it might happen, you take a shot... now theres plenty of scams out that actually work, why waste time with shit like this?

(a) apple will definitely enter a legal battle which would cost at least as much as anything they make, even if they won.

(b) credit card companies tend to reinburse for over over $1000 fraudulent charges and internet scams. not all of them but mine does. If I call visa they pause the money and they know exactly where it is and who has it in what account...

You should be on game don't misunderstand me, but be reasonable, stocking this guy and showing his house is a threat...


though I guess in the orwellian age of murdochspace maybe not...

[VinitaBoy]

@xirtus

". . . stocking his house . . ." Why would we all want to put products in his house? Oh, do you mean "stalking" his house? Oh, that's much different. Say, why don't YOU give him YOUR credit card and be the first among millions to fund the next Apple? (You know, the company that grew up BEFORE the neonazis came to wallstreet.) If that sounds like a good idea, I've got some correspondence from Kenya you'll REALLY be interested in! (Barnum was right: There's a sucker born every minute.)

[solipsism]

Even OSx86 is against Psystar. I didn't see that one coming.• OSx86 Project not too happy with Psystar either (http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/16/osx86-project-not-too-happy-with-psystar-either/)

[Clive At Five]

So it doesn't have a "true business status" but even Apple Computer Inc. started in a garage. Who knows, maybe this guy has been selling his services to set up company networks, etc, for the past few months. His website is very thorough.

"Psystar" is obviously not what it seems, but the question is, will that severely alter the situation? The controversial nature of Apple's EULA is out in the open... The cries for a modestly-priced mid-tower from Apple have been sung.

-Clive

[skottichan]

*tries really hard to look surprised*


Oh and xirtus? it's Stalking, not Sto....


Nevermind... Vinita beat me to it.

[xirtus]

wow, I'm getted m4ch8tted by fanboys...


okay how about a compromise: how about building you're own computer and running the x86 project yourself instead of paying someone else to do something you should be able to figure out on google by yourself...

not to mention you could just get a ubuntu machine a lot of places and run the x86, I've seen a list of plenty of stock computers that come with ubuntu and could run x86... this guy/apple would charge you for their software (not necessarily a bad thing, just pointing it out... the problem isn't the hardware, its that he sells it preinstalled.

[gmon750]

That their basement-living son is playing with fire?

[portagekix]

Maybe I am way off, but Apple's silence is interesting here. I promise I am not on meds. I promise I do not see a shrink (though might think I should) but could this be some sort conspiracy involving a situation where Apple might be sending out feelers to see where interest is in the public for a Mac OS X version for all computer makers, and not simply their own? I mean Vista is ripe for the picking and the Apple and Mac brand has never been more popular. iPhone is getting people familiar with OS X as is iPod Touch and iTunes. Wouldn't Mac OS X for all be a huge money making venture for the company? I am not in favor of Apple doing taking Mac OS X mainstream for all, but who knows? Ok I am going to slap myself around now for even suggesting all of this. Have a good weekend all!

[Marc OSX]

If it smells like a scam then it is a scam. The guy obviously thought he saw a grey area in Apple's EULA and decided to have a go at exposing it. End of story.

[skottichan]

wow, I'm getted m4ch8tted by fanboys...


okay how about a compromise: how about building you're own computer and running the x86 project yourself instead of paying someone else to do something you should be able to figure out on google by yourself...

not to mention you could just get a ubuntu machine a lot of places and run the x86, I've seen a list of plenty of stock computers that come with ubuntu and could run x86... this guy/apple would charge you for their software (not necessarily a bad thing, just pointing it out... the problem isn't the hardware, its that he sells it preinstalled.

First, it's fanGIRL.

Secondly, I was only bashing your inability to use the correct words, for what you were trying to say.

Thirdly, OS X is Apple's intellectual property. If I found someone using my design work without my permission, I'd be a LOT less civil (and quiet) as Apple's been.

[Zlyden]

The cries for a modestly-priced mid-tower from Apple have been sung.

In fact - yes!

If this all will end up with Apple understanding that its current models lineup just asks for individuals (or companies incorparated of single individual) installing hacked Mac OS X on $500 desktop Core 2 Duo for themselves, friends and "customers" -- to get a system faster and better than thier minis and iMacs. And if Apple will do something about it, except taking the matter to the court. Well, I would just give this guy perhaps not $300 but $100 at least just for his troubles -- he will suffer for our salvation... :devil:

(pardon my english)

[xirtus]

Maybe I am way off, but Apple's silence is interesting here. I promise I am not on meds. I promise I do not see a shrink (though might think I should) but could this be some sort conspiracy involving a situation where Apple might be sending out feelers to see where interest is in the public for a Mac OS X version for all computer makers, and not simply their own? I mean Vista is ripe for the picking and the Apple and Mac brand has never been more popular. iPhone is getting people familiar with OS X as is iPod Touch and iTunes. Wouldn't Mac OS X for all be a huge money making venture for the company? I am not in favor of Apple doing taking Mac OS X mainstream for all, but who knows? Ok I am going to slap myself around now for even suggesting all of this. Have a good weekend all!

well who likes tangants?

apple isn't nearly as dead as windows, but windows isn't even an operating system (in the sense that it's neither a system, nor does it operate. no offense fanboys...)

I love apple as much as the next mac fanatic, but apple is sabatoging themselves like the rest of corporate america.

theres no way the iphone is coming to china, because its' a piece of crap and they look at it and say, "fuckin mao, we can make that ourselves better with linux..."

and guess what they do... and it's not all sheisty ll and locked and useless. granted linux is still about 3-5 years away but so is china's technological superiority...

I'm only saying that china has no reason to respect our copyright laws, because american copyright laws are for chumps... (chinese aren't chumps...)

and all the laws do is try to stop people like psystar in america from doing something inevitable...

Ie using your chump ass intellectual property...

which I think is ridiculous, but hey go ahead and try to horde your achievements.

I mean sure I personally consider it an affront to humanity, but that doesn't really matter, the point is you cannot contain knowledge, it's like trying to hold back the sea with a broom...

[SpamSandwich]

So it doesn't have a "true business status" but even Apple Computer Inc. started in a garage. Who knows, maybe this guy has been selling his services to set up company networks, etc, for the past few months. His website is very thorough.

"Psystar" is obviously not what it seems, but the question is, will that severely alter the situation? The controversial nature of Apple's EULA is out in the open... The cries for a modestly-priced mid-tower from Apple have been sung.

-Clive

If he can stay in business for more than a year or two, he'll be something worth watching. Right off the bat, this guy has no product, just a lot of hype and a bunch of breathless web sites hoping he can pull it off. This story is going nowhere.

[brlawyer]

If it smells like a scam then it is a scam. The guy obviously thought he saw a grey area in Apple's EULA and decided to have a go at exposing it. End of story.

The only thing missing now is jail to these wannabe hacking hobbyists...really easy investment to take a PC, clone an EFI bootloader and illegally announce that your machine can run OS X...as for other unauthorized cloners, this is gonna hit the wall and turn into dust, nothing else.

GO APPLE!

[xirtus]

I'm going to say this again because it didn't seem really acknowledged,
I'd be happy for some comments on this subject. I gave possible reasons why this might not be a scam, mainly that scams tend to look for less trouble. this guy is supposedly battling apple... credit cart companies and apple would be exhaustive to his resources financially.

and again apple will definitely enter a legal battle which would cost at least as much as anything they make, even if they won.

plus credit card companies tend to reinburse for over over $1000 fraudulent charges and internet scams. not all of them but mine does. If I call visa they pause the money and they know exactly where it is and who has it in what account...


not that you should risk it, but shit like that, some guy hears your claim, goes to the site sees it and goes, oh yeah, thats a scam and they get all hyphy with psystar and lock his accounts...

[GQB]

Maybe I am way off, but Apple's silence is interesting here. I promise I am not on meds. I promise I do not see a shrink (though might think I should) but could this be some sort conspiracy involving a situation where Apple might be sending out feelers to see where interest is in the public for a Mac OS X version for all computer makers, and not simply their own? I mean Vista is ripe for the picking and the Apple and Mac brand has never been more popular. iPhone is getting people familiar with OS X as is iPod Touch and iTunes. Wouldn't Mac OS X for all be a huge money making venture for the company? I am not in favor of Apple doing taking Mac OS X mainstream for all, but who knows? Ok I am going to slap myself around now for even suggesting all of this. Have a good weekend all!

Apple's silence is because I'm sure they new this was a joke endeavour from the beginning.
Only rabid Apple haters have been getting almost sexually excited about this story.
"aristocratical shareholders like a virus"... "old neonazis" ?
It must be a sad life to be so consumed with sophomoric hatred.

[hawkmanva]

Looks like the website was acquired here as a template

http://cabikhosting.com/blog/download/joomlahack/js-element-green/details.htm

:no:

[Rot'nApple]

"One-man basement operation"?

What a shame...

There should be at least two men and some garage involved if they plan to rival Apple Inc. in the future...:)

Also, don't you need at least two men to form a corporation in Florida? :???:

You do in Virginia. That is why I am a Sole Proprietorship, operating a SOHO who has a Merchant Account to accept Credit Card charges. I let others that have brick and mortar operations produce and ship the products I sell to customers or have them ship to me and I'll deliver in person if it's local. :smokey:

Don't be so skeptical of Entreprenurs, as was stated in earlier posts, Apple was a two man operation in a garage and look at them now. Lots of businesses start that way.

[Marc OSX]

Don't be so skeptical of Entreprenurs, as was stated in earlier posts, Apple was a two man operation in a garage and look at them now. Lots of businesses start that way.

Apple didn't grab someone elses operating system and put it into someone elses hardware and try to flog it on a cheap template website whilst trying to trade off the name of the successful company they got the software from.

[paxman]

So it doesn't have a "true business status" but even Apple Computer Inc. started in a garage. Who knows, maybe this guy has been selling his services to set up company networks, etc, for the past few months. His website is very thorough.

"Psystar" is obviously not what it seems, but the question is, will that severely alter the situation? The controversial nature of Apple's EULA is out in the open... The cries for a modestly-priced mid-tower from Apple have been sung.

-Clive

Agreed. It is unfair to label the company as not legit because of its address. A few well known operations famously started in shady garages or basements or back rooms. I find it a little disingenuous of AI to post map detail as proof that Psystar is not somehow legit. On the other hand Psystar may not mind that at all, but I am not sure.

I can't imagine the guy will win. A real David and Goliath scenario.I mean, even if he wins he'll loose. A couple of broken legs will put him out of action. Oh wait, Apple doesn't use strong arm tactics like that, but I am sure they can think of something, what with all that creative talent around. I kind of root for him to be honest. I am a sucker for underdogs. Which is why I hang out at this forum :D

[Lafe]

Looks like the website was acquired here as a template

http://cabikhosting.com/blog/download/joomlahack/js-element-green/details.htm

:no:

Sham. Scam. Slam.

If there's anything real about this company, it's that it dreamed up a
media storm that will end up drawing attention to the company. If they
sell a few more custom systems (with no OS on them) or consulting
services, it was worth the storm, and technically they never shipped
OSX on anything, and never broke any EULA.

Tempest in a teacup.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

[PDX57]

The Guardian does not appear to know how a business is registered in the US. It isn't done through the Chamber of Commerce or the BBB.

Psystar is registered and in good standing.

It can be checked online at

http://www.sunbiz.org/corinam.html

[Rot'nApple]

Apple didn't grab someone elses operating system and put it into someone elses hardware and try to flog it on a cheap template website whilst trying to trade off the name of the successful company they got the software from.

That is NOT my point! Be it one person or two, their efforts can be legit. Do not compare to Pystar.

I'm just saying, you don't have to be a Fortune 500 Company, making billions in profit, with a workforce of 10,000. That's all I'm saying.

And no Apple didn't grab someone elses...

"Xerox has been heavily criticized (particularly by business historians) for failing to properly commercialize and profitably exploit PARC's innovations. A favorite example is the GUI, initially developed at PARC for the Alto and then commercialized as the Xerox Star by the Xerox Systems Development Department. Although very significant in terms of its influence on future system design, it is deemed a failure because it only sold approximately 25,000 units. A small group from PARC led by David Liddle and Charles Irby formed Metaphor Computer Systems. They extended the Star desktop concept into an animated graphic and communicating office automation model and sold the company to IBM.

The first successful commercial GUI product was the Apple Macintosh, which was heavily inspired by PARC's work; Xerox was given Apple stock in exchange for engineer visits and an understanding that Apple would create a GUI product. Much later, in the midst of the Apple v. Microsoft lawsuit in which Apple accused Microsoft of violating its copyright by appropriating the use of the "look and feel" of the Macintosh GUI, Xerox also sued Apple on the same grounds[citation needed]. The lawsuit was dismissed because Xerox had waited too long to file suit, and the statute of limitations had expired. However, some dispute the degree to which the Apple interface was derived from Xerox designs[1]. Indeed, prior to Apple's visits to PARC, its Macintosh project more closely resembled the Valdocs operating system of the Epson QX-10."

[Zlyden]

plus credit card companies tend to reinburse for over over $1000 fraudulent charges and internet scams. not all of them but mine does. If I call visa they pause the money and they know exactly where it is and who has it in what account...

I do not know well legal/police/banking system of United States, but as "one-man shareware operation" (with Kagi as a money processor) I sometimes see fraudulent orders: the money arrived from credit card account of would be customer, then in three weeks (or one month) chargeback is performed by his bank.

So, if the guy (we don't even know his name), plans to take some orders for about two weeks, then cash all funds and disappear (with his great web-site) before anyone started to complain a lot... well, with AppleInsder, Guardian and others as free advertisers, he really can make some money even without owning a garage or a house in Miami :)

[Stonkinboy]

Is It the First of APRIL ?

[trboyden]

First, it's fanGIRL.

Secondly, I was only bashing your inability to use the correct words, for what you were trying to say.

Thirdly, OS X is Apple's intellectual property. If I found someone using my design work without my permission, I'd be a LOT less civil (and quiet) as Apple's been.

Actually, only the GUI and certain other elements are Apple's IP in OS X. Most of the code is Free/Open/NetBSD which is open source software - free for anyone to use.

[wirc]

http://www.wolv.org/ent/uploaded_images/Punk'd_logo-715263.jpg

[Reaperducer]

While I would never buy anything from this company, some of the things written in the article aren't necessarily indicative of bad things.

"I called the Miami Chamber of Commerces and its Better Business Bureau," Arthur wrote. "They've never heard of it."

This means nothing. The Chamber would only know about businesses that are members of the Chamber. How many is that? Probably way less than 1% of the businesses in any city belong to the Chamber of Commerce.

Ditto for the Better Business Bureau. People have this notion that it's some kind of quasi-government watchdog that knows good businesses from bad. It doesn't. It only knows the businesses that have signed up and paid a fee to be a member of the BBB. It has no power, authority, or ability to track any other business. Again, probably less than 1% of businesses belong to the BBB.


What's more, Psystar appears to have hastily relocated on Tuesday to an industrial park within Miami's north-west side, according to an address change posted to its website. On Monday, the company's address was listed as 10645 SW 112 Street -- a three bedroom home built in 1957 along a row of suburban houses (below).

I find the relocation more disturbing than someone working out of their home. Home-based businesses are perfectly legitimate. I can't speak for Miami, but many large cities issue business licenses for home-based businesses. The I.R.S. has recognized them for years.

More importantly, if we condemned every computer hobbiest working out of their garage, then we would never have had an Apple I, or an Apple II, and thus no Mac.

Remember where Steve Jobs, the founders of HP, and pretty much every other aspiring tech company got its start -- in a garage.

[SpamSandwich]

As if this wasn't enough, now Steve Woz (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/04/16/woz-on-psystar-openpro-i-like-the-price-so-i-may-get-one) is throwing his monkey into this 3-ring circus.

[PDX57]

Relocation would simply indicate that they have orders and the garage is too small to process it all. That is what happens when success hits a small home-based business.

[paxman]

I find the relocation more disturbing than someone working out of their home. Home-based businesses are perfectly legitimate. I can't speak for Miami, but many large cities issue business licenses for home-based businesses. The I.R.S. has recognized them for years.


What's so wrong with moving? I started in my home and then moved to a commercial space. If I had been in the middle of promotional stunt at the time, so what?

Somebody should ask the guy and see what he says. That would be far more interesting. The guy isn't publicity shy so I'm sure he'd speak up.

[dualie]

It's called entrepreneurial spirit. So what if the guy found a way to make Mac clones. Good for him! As long as he is honest, doesn't misrepresent his products or services and delivers everything he sells, he'll have a legitimate business. Good luck to him!

As for Apple not getting publicly involved, well, why should they give him a leg up but giving him free advertising?

[minderbinder]

Agreed. It is unfair to label the company as not legit because of its address. A few well known operations famously started in shady garages or basements or back rooms. I find it a little disingenuous of AI to post map detail as proof that Psystar is not somehow legit. On the other hand Psystar may not mind that at all, but I am not sure.

It's address is a house, and then they changed the website to list an industrial park where the companies there have never heard of them. You call them and get some guy taking messages, their tech support dept is literally non-existent. On top of that

Seriously, would anyone have any confidence that they'd get the machine they ordered, much less that it would work at all? I think it's perfectly valid to dismiss a computer "company" that is just a guy in his basement. And it's a GOOD thing for AI to post this info so people know the real situation, up until now the press has been assuming that this is legit and that looks increasingly unlikely.

The company may or may not be a complete scam (or at least a publicity stunt, although I don't see what the upside to this would be), at this point my guess is it is someone who honestly thinks he can start a successful business but has no clue what he is getting into. I'll bet they never even ship ONE of these "open" computers. If they are legit, why doesn't the site mention ship dates at all? And has anyone actually tried to order one of these?

I can't believe that people still think this is legit after all that has come out about this company. Are people so hungry for a cheap mac that they're willing to suspend disbelief? If you're so excited, go ahead and buy one. The rest of us would love to hear about it.

[SpamSandwich]

According to the latest.... this might be a stunt from a t-shirt company, or even Steve Wozniak... wouldn't that be a hoot!

[backtomac]

As if this wasn't enough, now Steve Woz (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/04/16/woz-on-psystar-openpro-i-like-the-price-so-i-may-get-one) is throwing his monkey into this 3-ring circus.

Woz is to Apple the way that Jimmy Carter is to politics.

Both are irrelevant and somewhat annoying.

[GQB]

Woz is to Apple the way that Jimmy Carter is to politics.

Both are irrelevant and somewhat annoying.

Yup, and both did very good things after their 'retirements'.
Would that other ex (or soon to be ex) presidents did half as much good as Carter.

[city]

I keep my ride in the garage and work from the kitchen table. That's where the food and bevs are.

[skottichan]

Actually, only the GUI and certain other elements are Apple's IP in OS X. Most of the code is Free/Open/NetBSD which is open source software - free for anyone to use.

But it's not what they're offering to install now is it? What they're offering to install is Apple Macintosh Operating System 10.5 Leopard. So they are using Apple's IP without expressed permission.

I really don't get people who criticizing those who defend their intellectual properties. I mean, I'm a relatively green graphic designer/comic book artist... but, if I saw someone using one of my creations, fuck the lawyers, I'm getting a softball bat, and some of my bigger guy friends.

[Zlyden]

...or even Steve Wozniak...

Or Another Steve or some other Apple's employee with a lot of AAPL stock that's climbing up for this or another reason today. Looks suspicious :grumble:

[dasein]

.."and further suggests the company may be little more than one-man basement operation"

Houses in Florida usually don't have basements...they'd be in over their heads.

[macosxp]

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7825/picture1qu2.png

They shouldn't allow more orders than they can take, unless they don't really sell anything at all. So why does it allow me to add $300,000,000 dollars of stuff? Maybe now their stat counter indicated that I put that into my shopping account and they are getting giddy. :lol: Now I wonder, if I make the order will they finally have enough money to buy a building and a factory? :err: Let's try :D

[Clive At Five]

Clive.....THERE'S NOTHING CONTROVERSIAL ABOUT APPLE's EULA.....

DUH dude.

In order to use OSX you have to buy a MAC.... it's pretty clear and simple. This dimwit working out of his bathroom in Miami is a PUTZ with nothing to back up any of his threats, nor does he have a great "Idea" like Woz and Jobs had in their garage. I'd imagine Apple Legal already made the shit hit the fan for this LOOSER and that's why his lamo fako product is no longer on his web site.

Good Riddance

Quit smoking Pot.... You'll find it does wonders to clear up your mind!

You registered just to flame me? How pathetic.

I can guarntee your story would be different if Microsoft made computers and forced Windows users to buy their brand in order to use the OS. Then you all would be screaming "Monopoly."

While it's true that this Psystar guy has a lot to prove before he can be considered trustworthy, that doesn't render his efforts complete bunk. You said that he's working out of his [garage] but didn't have a great idea like Woz? Then why is it that Woz himself said today that he'd be interested in getting one? Certainly Woz can afford a mess of MacPros and is certainly smart enough to build his own hackintosh. Why then would he be interested in this commercialized Hackintosh? If it piqued his interest, certainly it's not simply a dismissible idea.

Perhaps you don't know your idols as well as you think you do.

-Clive

[digitalclips]

There are no basements in Florida (well very few ) lol

[trboyden]

Wasn't my point, I was correcting your assumption that all of OS X is Apple's IP, which it is not.

Whether what this guy is doing violates Apple's IP is up to the courts to decide. With the intermingling of proprietary and open source code, there is probably enough of a gray area that Apple doesn't want to risk opening a can of worms. The only thing he is assumed to have violated is Apple's EULA, which has no legal precedent under law and may or may not be upheld by the legal system. An IP is not the same as a licensing agreement. If anything, this guy is an unauthorized reseller, of which there are many in all different kinds of industries. There is nothing illegal in that. You just can't expect the support that you would get from Apple. Not that you get any from them or any other computer manufacturer today anyways.

I think the whole idea that Apple can't license their software becuase they would then have to support all kinds of hardware is baloney. It is up to the hardware makers to make sure their stuff works with Apple or non-Apple hardware. Just because Microsoft has hand-holded the industry and is in the situation that they are in with bloated code and all, doesn't mean Apple has to take the same approach. The model for iPhone application development could equally work for clone program.

My guess is that Apple is probably working on a tower now and they are usng this as a launchpad for that endeavor. "Rather then buy that crap tower, buy the new Apple xMac".

[Samnuva]

Apple didn't grab someone elses operating system and put it into someone elses hardware and try to flog it on a cheap template website whilst trying to trade off the name of the successful company they got the software from.

No, That's microsoft :lol:

[minderbinder]

While it's true that this Psystar guy has a lot to prove before he can be considered trustworthy, that doesn't render his efforts complete bunk. You said that he's working out of his [garage] but didn't have a great idea like Woz? Then why is it that Woz himself said today that he'd be interested in getting one? Certainly Woz can afford a mess of MacPros and is certainly smart enough to build his own hackintosh. Why then would he be interested in this commercialized Hackintosh? If it piqued his interest, certainly it's not simply a dismissible idea.

Woz probably just wants one as a collector's item. I got to hear the guy speak once - there's no question that he did a great job of creating the original apple computer, but now he comes off as half a bubble off plumb.

[vinea]

I can guarntee your story would be different if Microsoft made computers and forced Windows users to buy their brand in order to use the OS. Then you all would be screaming "Monopoly."


No, folks wouldn't because MS's OS market share would rapidly tank.

Dell, HP, etc wouldn't suddenly dissappear. They'd suddenly sell a lot more linux boxes and try to crater MS' PC sales with superior business processes wrt selling hardware.

[JeffDM]

So it doesn't have a "true business status" but even Apple Computer Inc. started in a garage. Who knows, maybe this guy has been selling his services to set up company networks, etc, for the past few months. His website is very thorough.

Whether or not this is a "real" business hasn't been tested properly, the tests in the article are insufficient. BBB membership is a ripoff for any but the largest business, and then, a large business really doesn't need it either. I don't think being a member of a chamber of commerce is necessary to do business either. For my state, the bare minimum to be a business is a one page application to be a DBA. LLC is maybe $500, plus or minus, depending on lawyer fees.

That said, I really don't have much confidence here.

[JeffDM]

As if this wasn't enough, now Steve Woz (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/04/16/woz-on-psystar-openpro-i-like-the-price-so-i-may-get-one) is throwing his monkey into this 3-ring circus.

I didn't think Woz was having any money problems, I don't understand why the price is a consideration.

[TenoBell]

Wasn't my point, I was correcting your assumption that all of OS X is Apple's IP, which it is not.

OS X as a whole is Apple's IP. Mach kernal, XNU, and Darwin are open source and Psystar is free to use them.

A kernal is mostly useless without a UI or API. Aqua, Carbon, Cocoa, and Core API's are most surely Apple's IP.

[Jason94102]

Wow... another great article from AppleObvious! Great job, guys! :rolleyes:

[Clive At Five]

No, folks wouldn't because MS's OS market share would rapidly tank.

Dell, HP, etc wouldn't suddenly dissappear. They'd suddenly sell a lot more linux boxes and try to crater MS' PC sales with superior business processes wrt selling hardware.

MS's market share is irrelevant. If they were to announce tomorrow that they would move to this market arrangement, would they be allowed to? Or would they be considered a monopoly? That is the question.

And don't even try to convince me there would be a mass exodus to Linux. Until the feuding Lunix flavors can "get their ducks in a row" Linux will never become a mainstrem OS.

-Clive

[IQ78]

Apple didn't grab someone elses operating system and put it into someone elses hardware and try to flog it on a cheap template website whilst trying to trade off the name of the successful company they got the software from.

No, but Compaq basically did it to IBM. I think Compaq had more than a few employees, but likely less than 10.

IAMIQ78

[minderbinder]

Whether or not this is a "real" business hasn't been tested properly, the tests in the article are insufficient. BBB membership is a ripoff for any but the largest business, and then, a large business really doesn't need it either. I don't think being a member of a chamber of commerce is necessary to do business either. For my state, the bare minimum to be a business is a one page application to be a DBA. LLC is maybe $500, plus or minus, depending on lawyer fees.

That said, I really don't have much confidence here.

Should the test really be whether it's NOT a real business? Isn't the burden of proof on this company? So far there's no evidence that they have conducted any business of any kind, much less shipped even a single machine.

Sorry, but I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt just yet, while the things in the article don't definitively prove that this business is bogus, they cast a HUGE amount of doubt about it. Really, are the mac news sites supposed to take seriously any clown who puts up a website? I say no. I'll take them a tiny bit more seriously when we've heard that they've shipped one of these machines with OSX installed. So when is that going to happen?

I think all the news sites are probably regretting they ever reported this in the first place, at this point it looks like they probably got suckered on this one.

[TenoBell]

MS's market share is irrelevant. If they were to announce tomorrow that they would move to this market arrangement, would they be allowed to? Or would they be considered a monopoly? That is the question.

Again a monopoly is not illegal. Anti-competitive abuse of a monopoly is illegal.

MS abused its monopoly to stifle and destroy competition. That is why they have been punished.

[minderbinder]

Again a monopoly is not illegal. Anti-competitive abuse of a monopoly is illegal.

MS abused its monopoly to stifle and destroy competition. That is why they have been punished.

NO, not the "M" word again!

That last thread went off the rails real bad. Could we please avoid starting that off-topic debate all over again? Please?

[trboyden]

Ummm, no. Repackaging an O/S with a different GUI and other components doesn't make the whole your IP. Only the parts you invented are your IP. OS X is a trademark. The parts you mentioned are indeed Apple IP. But what you are saying, as a comparison, is that just because Gnome is a GUI, they must own the IP for Linux. This is not the case.

Darwin (which is the underlying open source operating system for OS X) is perfectably usable without the OS X IP pieces. Just throw Gnome or KDE or any other GUI on it, and there you go.

Can you run Mac applications without the Apple IP parts, no of course not. But that's not the argument here.

[Rot'nApple]

Update 2: AppleInsider reader Shane writes in to let us know that quick glance of the source code for Psystar.com reveals the company's webpages was slapped together with help from this web template.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=3964)

You'd think for a company that wants to challenge Apple's EULA to sell computers that can run Mac OS X, that the corporation's website would have used Apple's iWeb. ;)

[TenoBell]

Ummm, no. Repackaging an O/S with a different GUI and other components doesn't make the whole your IP. Only the parts you invented are your IP. OS X is a trademark. The parts you mentioned are indeed Apple IP. But what you are saying, as a comparison, is that just because Gnome is a GUI, they must own the IP for Linux. This is not the case.

I'm not sure what you are arguing but you are basically repeating the same thing I said. As I said anyone is free to use Mach kernal, XNU, or Darwin. Those are parts of OS X. But those parts are not OS X as a whole.


Darwin (which is the underlying open source operating system for OS X) is perfectably usable without the OS X IP pieces. Just throw Gnome or KDE or any other GUI on it, and there you go.

But this isn't what Psystar is doing. This combination of code is not OS X.

Can you run Mac applications without the Apple IP parts, no of course not. But that's not the argument here.

The whole point of this controversy is that Psystar plans to ship computers installed with OS X with intent to run Mac applications. I'm not sure what other argument you are making.

[NasserAE]

Software have copyrights. Installing a software is considered reproduction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_copyright). Therefore if someone (in this case Psystar) started installing a copy of OS X on non-Apple hardware and sell it, then it is considered a copyright violation as per the terms at which Psystar agreed upon when buying and installing the software.

[JeffDM]

You'd think for a company that wants to challenge Apple's EULA to sell computers that can run Mac OS X, that the corporation's website would have used Apple's iWeb. ;)

I guess I was out of date. Apparently it is possible to make an iWeb-based web store, with some third party help.

[Rot'nApple]

I guess I was out of date. Apparently it is possible to make an iWeb-based web store, with some third party help.

Really?! Now I'm out of date. My iWeb comment was not to be taken serioously. That's why the emoticon "wink"

Where would one find those third party help apps that can help an iWeb developed website be more of a store, shopping cart, etc.?

[vinea]

MS's market share is irrelevant. If they were to announce tomorrow that they would move to this market arrangement, would they be allowed to? Or would they be considered a monopoly? That is the question.

And don't even try to convince me there would be a mass exodus to Linux. Until the feuding Lunix flavors can "get their ducks in a row" Linux will never become a mainstrem OS.

-Clive

The point isn't that the linux folks would get their ducks in a row. The point is that Dell and HP have to sell SOMETHING.

MS' marketshare means everything with respect to a monopoly. Without an 70%+ share they don't likely fall into that monopoly status anymore so why would anyone scream "Monopoly"?

What? You think that MS can instantly create the infrastructure comparable to Dell, HP, etc by waving their hands? The only scenario where this would work is if they bought Dell.

Even then, they'd be selling a LOT less OS's. The entire rest of the industry would HAVE to switch to Linux or Solaris. They'd be sinking an assload of money and developers into Wine and Linux and paying game companies to port to OpenGL/Linux.

Windows dominance would end in a couple years.

No one would scream Monopoly! Everyone would be screaming OMG Windows is SOOOO DEAD and likely cheering.

[NasserAE]

Something funny is happening on their website. I added a $399 system in my shopping basket. As I check out, my basket showing $1,659.99!!! I didn't go through the registration though. Did anyone tried that?

[Marc OSX]

I don't think monopoly comes into it. Apples hardware can run any OS, so you're not being forced down any one route. By the same token, you aren't forced to buy OSX, therfore not forced to buy Apple hardware. My understanding of a monopoly is when consumer choice is removed - as in the case of Microsoft, who's OS broke if you tried to remove IE. But I could be wrong.

[JeffDM]

Really?! Now I'm out of date. My iWeb comment was not to be taken serioously. That's why the emoticon "wink"

Where would one find those third party help apps that can help an iWeb developed website be more of a store, shopping cart, etc.?

I did a Google search, some software on MacUpdate showed up. There looked like a few other good hits, but I didn't look too hard to see if it was any good.

For some reason, I'm emoticon blind. I don't know why, I just don't notice them. I didn't think it was serious, but I thought I'd take a look.

[Pkurtd]

The fact that this is for selling hardware only for $399 and if you want OSX you have to pay an additional $155 and "they" install it for "free". Sadly, for them, anyone who pays attention knows that OSX costs $129. Which tells me it isn't free. At best this is a rip off. At worst it's a scam.

[Marc OSX]

The fact that this is for selling hardware only for $399 and if you want OSX you have to pay an additional $155 and "they" install it for "free". Sadly, for them, anyone who pays attention knows that OSX costs $129. Which tells me it isn't free. At best this is a rip off. At worst it's a scam.

Amen.

[Rot'nApple]

I didn't think Woz was having any money problems, I don't understand why the price is a consideration.

How do you think the rich get rich? They don't spend THEIR money! :lol:

[qnp9999]

Apple didn't grab someone elses operating system and put it into someone elses hardware and try to flog it on a cheap template website whilst trying to trade off the name of the successful company they got the software from.

I am an apple zealot, have been since I was a kid going through school on the IIe but...

In fact, that is almost exactly what apple did. How easy it is to forget that the mouse, and the idea of a gui was not in fact apples technology.

Okay the flamming begin.

[Zaphodsplanet]

You registered just to flame me? How pathetic.

I can guarntee your story would be different if Microsoft made computers and forced Windows users to buy their brand in order to use the OS. Then you all would be screaming "Monopoly."

While it's true that this Psystar guy has a lot to prove before he can be considered trustworthy, that doesn't render his efforts complete bunk. You said that he's working out of his [garage] but didn't have a great idea like Woz? Then why is it that Woz himself said today that he'd be interested in getting one? Certainly Woz can afford a mess of MacPros and is certainly smart enough to build his own hackintosh. Why then would he be interested in this commercialized Hackintosh? If it piqued his interest, certainly it's not simply a dismissible idea.

Perhaps you don't know your idols as well as you think you do.

-Clive

I didn't just sign on to flame you.... I registered eons ago but never posted because I actually work. A FT job along with another corporation I own. I just think you're brain isn't working right. You inspired me to take the time to try and make a point.

If MS wanted to adopt the Apple model then that would be their prerogative. THEY OWN THE CODE... just like Apple owns OSX... What part of that do you not understand???

You nor Psystar have no more right to STEAL Apple's property then Apple or MS has a right to steal a truly unique product idea from you or Psystar. That's what has made the USA as rich as it is. If you think that merely because something is there that you have a right to use it your logic is fatally flawed. This is not Linux, which is great, but it's not OSX.

Even if the company or person is rich it doesn't make you right to do what you're illuding to. Stealing is Stealing!!

Psystar is totally dismissible. They don't have a legal foot to stand on. He is making a weak ass attempt thieving something he has NO RIGHTS TO. And as such he deserves what he brings upon himself.

The fact that you support this shows weak character on your part. Apple owns OSX.... period!

[mzaslove]

I really don't get people who criticizing those who defend their intellectual properties. I mean, I'm a relatively green graphic designer/comic book artist... but, if I saw someone using one of my creations, fuck the lawyers, I'm getting a softball bat, and some of my bigger guy friends.

I understand your attitude. When I was much, much younger I heard through the grapevine that a particular producer had stolen one of my feature scripts and was trying to put a movie together with it. For some reason I went over to the guy's house with a baseball bat (I still remember it was a 34 Hank Aaron), teed off on his porchlight and got his attention. We later made an option deal after I explained that it would be much cheaper paying me, and I was a better writer for any rewrites he might need than anyone he could afford. I can't believe I did that now, but at the time it worked.

[Zaphodsplanet]

Woz is to Apple the way that Jimmy Carter is to politics.

Both are irrelevant and somewhat annoying.

The fact that Woz did that proves you're totally right....LOL..... I never knew he was like that but it suddenly makes a lot of sense why he's no longer "involved" in the company.

[sequitur]

Apple didn't grab someone elses operating system and put it into someone elses hardware and try to flog it on a cheap template website whilst trying to trade off the name of the successful company they got the software from.

Didn't B. Gates sell someone else's OS to IBM? He did pay around $50 k for it, but he didn't build it.

[SpinDrift]

well said, you beat me right to the punch...

I feel like saying, "what???? nerds building computers from their house to sell on the internet? thats utterly absurd! name one company, one company that started that way! -except for all of them... before they became incorporated and infested with the aristocratical shareholders like a virus"


it's almost preposterous I know, but there was a time before the old neonazis had so successfully crossed over wallstreet...


I remember when the google kids tried to rent out my grandfathers office and he said no because he thought it sounded silly...

now they have a masonic temple of their own...

all I'm saying is buy a computer from this guy first instead of stocking his house and putting your findings up on this site like it was anonym0us or something...

The difference is, when Apple started out in Steve's garage they built their own hardware and wrote their software. All this guy is doing is putting generic machines together and trying to make a quick buck off the Apple brand. There's a difference between a parasite and an innovator.

[sequitur]

What IF this is just a bid for attention? How much would a company have to pay for ALL the publicity this has brought?

NOW THAT I HAVE ALL YOUR ATTENTION, THIS IS WHAT I'M REALLY SELLING!

[solipsism]

Didn't B. Gates sell someone else's OS to IBM? He did pay around $50 k for it, but he didn't build it.
As I recall, he didn't own it, had never seen it, or had met the guy before promising IBM.

[Marc OSX]

The difference is, when Apple started out in Steve's garage they built their own hardware and wrote their software. All this guy is doing is putting generic machines together and trying to make a quick buck off the Apple brand. There's a difference between a parasite and an innovator.

Cheers, that's exactly what I tried to say earlier, just much less eloquently. :embarrass

[Marc OSX]

What IF this is just a bid for attention? How much would a company have to pay for ALL the publicity this has brought?

NOW THAT I HAVE ALL YOUR ATTENTION, THIS IS WHAT I'M REALLY SELLING!

That's a pretty crappy marketing technique "I'm going to make sure eberyone knows who I am and at the same time I'll make sure no-one trusts me, then I'll try and sell them something"

If that tactic works, there is no hope for the future of our society :no:

[ncee]

Hey there must be someone who lives in the area, PLEASE go take some pictures, and visit the place, then give us an up-date.

Skip

[gilles_deleuze]

Felt like chiming in.

There are some early apparitions of the psystar website on archive.org:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/Psystar.com

Judging from the longevity of the slogan, they seem to have been "reinventing the wheel" for over seven years. Congrats to company employee Robert and possible coworkers for finally sharing with the general public this project that was in the works since 2001. Incredible wheeling and dealing.

Late 2001, the wheel is under construction:

http://web.archive.org/web/20011202233456/http://www.psystar.com/

Early 2002, tentative/secretive unveiling of the wheel:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060703010939/http://www.psystar.com/

Regarding the "cheap" Mac idea: Apple obviously is not a charity and therefore under no obligation to release an affordable or whatever Mac for the masses. (If they consider it a good idea, financially and otherwise, they certainly may in the future.)

One last thing; if you consider Mac a monopoly, then I'm afraid you're under the spell of a certain marketing idea (that you can't do/live without a Mac and that it's bread and butter for you). Welcome to the world of the Mac-obsessed and wish you rapid recovery so you may learn to make light of your condition and relegate the Mac from being a basic good to a sexy fixation.

[bsenka]

Every company has to start somewhere. None of this is proof of anything other than they are a brand new company.

[diskimage]

Every company has to start somewhere. None of this is proof of anything other than they are a brand new company.

What's more, Psystar appears to have hastily relocated on Tuesday to an industrial park within Miami's north-west side, according to an address change posted to its website

The most recent industrial park address for Psystar belongs to a packing supply firm called USA KOEN PACK whose manager has never heard of Psystar.

If this is a legitimate new company why did they change their address to a location that they do not own and has never heard of them.:???:

[wheelhot]

Its a SCAM!, the company image has been tarnished so its obvious Apple is waiting to see what's going to happen to the situation.

If the company starts selling and delivered their product, Apple will send their lawyers.

[Samnuva]

According to the latest.... this might be a stunt from a t-shirt company, or even Steve Wozniak... wouldn't that be a hoot!

I think you've on to something with the Woz thing.

[BAP]

[QUOTE=AppleInsider;1241072]A brief investigation into Psystar Corporation reveals the self-proclaimed Mac cloner maker to have no operating history prior to this week, and further suggests the company may be little more than one-man basement operation.

Has anyone noticed the similarity between Psystar and Shyster. This may be one elaborate but late April Fool's gag.

Also, the Box does not appear to be significantly better than a MacMini, given the moderate cost differential and the unknown components used. I agree with one of the other posters, I use my MacMini for a media center and need quiet operation.

I also hope that this spurs apple to come out with a midrange tower at $1000 to 1200

[sapporobaby]

As if this wasn't enough, now Steve Woz (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/04/16/woz-on-psystar-openpro-i-like-the-price-so-i-may-get-one) is throwing his monkey into this 3-ring circus.

But it's HIS money. So why care?

[bdkennedy1]

Apple is not going to do anything until this company starts shipping a product. Otherwise it's all just hearsay.

[Superbass]

Not surprising how all of the pro-mac sites are posting super-negative articles about this since it might detract from the specialness of their toys.

I mean, what's the damage to Mac users if Psystar wants to make their Mac clone - if you don't wan't it, don't buy it!

Just because they're making it doesn't mean the quality of your computer is going to drop. If anything, it'll make Apple lower it's prices in the future or design their own upgradeable low-cost computer...

I really don't see anybody losing here except maybe Apple stockholders and fanboys whose material egos get bruised by the thought that OSX could be put into a much cheaper machine. Since the Intel switch, the fanboys have only really been able to gloat over OSX and how cool their computer looks, and now they're going to lose OSX - boo hoo!

[sapporobaby]

Woz is to Apple the way that Jimmy Carter is to politics.

Both are irrelevant and somewhat annoying.

Darn skippy. What's wrong with Jimmy Carter? Wanting to feed the poor, wanting fairness for all people, calling Israel's policies Apartheid. He must be some sort liberal or progressive. Screw him. We need more preemptive wars based on lies and half truths.

BOMB IRAN NOW!!!!

Be nice to the US or we will bring democracy to your country.

[backtomac]

All right people, I think psystars 15 minutes of fame has expired.

Move along, nothing left here to see.

[queuecipher]

Insanity!!:D

[Marvin]

If we take a look at the picture at the top of the page here:

http://macapper.com/2008/01/19/diy-hackintosh-tutorial-build-a-mac-pro-for-cheap/5/

does anyone actually prefer the appearance of the iMac to the dual display setup?

People can't get that setup on anything less than a Mac Pro and this is a huge problem. I don't really care much about price but obviously within reason but I want the setup I want and Apple is not accommodating this.

As soon as companies start to dictate how people use their personal products, people rebel against it. DRM is a very important example.

I would be disappointed if this Open Computer came to nothing because Apple seriously need a good hard kick in the ass on this issue - they're just being plain ignorant.

It's also been over 8 months since the last Mini or iMac update!!! COME ONNNNNN! And all we're getting is a CPU bump and possibly smaller enclosures, which nobody even cares about. Does anyone want a smaller Mini or a thinner iMac?

Even if this product never comes to fruition, which seems likely if the OSX86 people aren't too happy with it, it demonstrates that there is a demand for a mid-range tower. Admittedly the price is also appealing but if Apple made the same Core 2 Duo or Core 2 Quad with a reasonable markup, people would still buy it from Apple.

[MrMinux]

If it smells like a scam then it is a scam. The guy obviously thought he saw a grey area in Apple's EULA and decided to have a go at exposing it. End of story.

Do explain how what you said has any basis for this thing to be described as a "scam". Even better, do explain how anything the company has done can be construed as a scam.

And, before you ostracize me as being anti Apple, you should know I've been a Mac user, since the Apple II days and purchased a PowerMac 9600 for 9k, when they were first released. I currently own a Powermac G5 and a MacBook Pro, as well as a slew of Windows and Linux boxes.

The thing that turns me off about Apple, nowadays, is their lackluster build quality and migration away from original, Apple culture. I purchase a 30GB Apple iPod, back when they were $400, and after six months. when it went south, Apple told me I was out of luck and they'd charge me for a new one or any repairs. Needless to say, I found an alternative and now use XM and Sirius, when I'm on the go and just listen to my collection of over 200GB of digital music, when I'm at home.

Now, you may not be seasoned enough to remember a time, when Apple cared about their OS. If you have a computer that will run it, pop in a copy of OS 9, take yourself back a few years, and you'll see there's something more magical than our "contemporary" OS. I'm not saying X is horrific, but it's just a very solid, decent OS and nothing revolutionary.

Revolutionary is a hard term for some contemporary Apple folks to grasp. It has nothing to do with the amount of units Apple moves, as you'll recall Apple survived for many years, with a shrinking share of the overall pie. Any credit given to Jobs about moving computers and iPods is crap, as though it has anything to do with some sort of "revolution".

I'm not alone here, but many would argue that Apples best years were, when Jobs was outfoxed and forced to do is NeXT fiasco, back when the Macs ran as much as a car and this whole digital revolution occurred with writers, artists, and musicians.

The point with all this is I applaud this guy, child, or infant, whoever he may be, for taking a go at this, so long as it's not a scam. If it turns out to be a scam, then I'll be the first to scream foul. But, him living in his parent's house, on the moon, or in some renovated, ostentatious warehouse in the Valley has nothing to do with his ability to produce hardware. What a bunch of superficial ignorance.

[ros3ntan]

http://government.zdnet.com/?p=3761

is Psystar scam or real?

[Rhumgod]

http://government.zdnet.com/?p=3761

is Psystar scam or real?

It's a frigging scam people. If you don't believe me, ante up your CC and give the mavens who set it up your cash to be used for illegal weapons purchases in small mid-eastern countries.

Idiots.
:lol::lol::lol:

[Roberto_007]

A quick look at their site and their MO proves they are nothing but a load of BS. You can't talk to anyone nor order by phone; the "About this Company" reveals nothing about the company; and if you want to know more you are led to a FAQ page which is EMPTY. They have changed their address a half dozen times this week.
http://gizmodo.com/380488/psystar-exposed-looks-like-a-hoax
Their website was created from pre-made template.
http://cabikhosting.com/blog/download/joomlahack/js-element-green/details.htm
This is not a fledgling new startup in their Mom's garage, it's just a scam to get YOUR MONEY AND THEN BAIL OUT.

[Roberto_007]

You can't turn this around and change the subject. This is not about your (mis)conceived flaws/failings of Apple as a company or their products. You and others might want to try to stay on topic for a change.

[Tzigane]

I'm yet to believe in legitimacy of this company. I made a White Pages search for the guys running this show and came up with Rodolfo Pedraza at 16411 SW 82nd Ave., and Roberto Pedraza at 924 SW 2nd Ave, Miami. When I checked the Miami/Dade tax records I discovered that neither of these were legitimate addresses. The 82nd Ave. address would be somebody's side yard, while the 2nd Ave. address is part of the MediGo Urgent Care facility (900 SW 2nd Ave.) Among Rodolfo Pedraza's other endeavors, that were all marked as "INVOLUNTARILY DISSOLVED" on the Florida Department of State Division of Corporations, is FloridaTek, LLC (active), a company eerily similar to Psystar, but with no "on-line store." Here Rodolfo Pedraza is mated with Catalina Ferrer, both located at 10854 SW 246th St., Homestead, FL 33032. This address is verifiable in the White Pages, with a published phone number. Expressi Networks, Inc. and Foreceed Corporation link all three of these people together through 3401 SW 104th Ct., Miami and the 246th St, Homestead addresses. Here's the part that I liked about Rodolfo: 4 addresses in HOMESTEAD FL, 16 addresses in MIAMI FL, 1 address in MIAMI BEACH FL, 2 addresses in DORAL FL. We have seen how quickly his addresses change (with Psystar), and know how easily obtainable phone numbers are (go to any Radio Shack and walk out with a half dozen - no building needed). :no:

[Tzigane]

Does anyone know if these two are related?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fxvictims/

and this from WHOIS (note the address)

Domain Name: RAZORFX.COM
Promote your business to millions of viewers for only $1 a month!
Learn how you can get an Enhanced Business Listing here for your domain name.
Learn More
Administrative Contact , Technical Contact :
Expressi Networks
webmaster@razorfx.com
3401 sw 104th ct
miami, FL 33165
US
Phone: 3053455924
Fax: 123 123 1234

Record expires on 17-May-2008
Record created on 17-May-2002
Database last updated on 24-May-2007

[MrMinux]

You can't turn this around and change the subject. This is not about your (mis)conceived flaws/failings of Apple as a company or their products. You and others might want to try to stay on topic for a change.

What you're doing is called a strawman, where you completely ignore the point someone is making and just ostracize them. You don't care about the truth, only your slanted, uninformed opinion of some make believe reality. You're a sick individual.

[MrMinux]

A quick look at their site and their MO proves they are nothing but a load of BS. You can't talk to anyone nor order by phone; the "About this Company" reveals nothing about the company; and if you want to know more you are led to a FAQ page which is EMPTY. They have changed their address a half dozen times this week.
http://gizmodo.com/380488/psystar-exposed-looks-like-a-hoax
Their website was created from pre-made template.
http://cabikhosting.com/blog/download/joomlahack/js-element-green/details.htm
This is not a fledgling new startup in their Mom's garage, it's just a scam to get YOUR MONEY AND THEN BAIL OUT.

We'll just have to wait and see. Until then, stop being a poster boy for whatever sick cause you're trumping.