Why do we continue supporting the Chinese economy

[ronaldo]

China is probably the largest counterfeiter of U.S. products in the world.
Why do we continually support the largest communist slave labor country?
All Chinese products should be banned from this country. They are poisoning us with lead paint in their products.
Here is a link to just one of the products that they counterfeit.
Be cautious when buying Square D circuit breakers. Many fires and accidents have been caused by this junk.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-7341385_ITM

[ronaldo]

Here is another link that shows how much is lost due to Chinese counterfeiters.

http://www.havocscope.com/Counterfeit/china.htm

[SDW2001]

China is probably the largest counterfeiter of U.S. products in the world.

Agreed. I've heard they actually have shadow corporations dedicated to the reverse engineering electronics and other goods.


Why do we continually support the largest communist slave labor country?

Because they lend us a shitload of money.


All Chinese products should be banned from this country. They are poisoning us with lead paint in their products.

That's a bit extreme. China is home to many quality manufacturers, including ones that build for Apple, btw.


Here is a link to just one of the products that they counterfeit.
Be cautious when buying Square D circuit breakers. Many fires and accidents have been caused by this junk.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-7341385_ITM

"They" is not the Chinese government. Banning Chinese products from this country would also destroy the US economy. Do you have any IDEA how many things in your life depend on China? Hell, 2/3 of the stock of your local department store would disappear. What remained would likely be quadruple the price. Used to paying $4.99 for a pack of tube socks? Get ready to pay $20.00. Your new Macbook Pro was $2,299.00? Gets ready to pay $6,000 while Apple finds another place to build it. I'm not exaggerating...the entire US economy would utterly collapse. China's would be seriously damaged as they lost 20% of all their exports.

Of course, China would also retaliate, so say goodbye to the money they lend our government. You think the dollar has declined so far? China holds almost one trillion US dollars in one form or another:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/08/07/bcnchina107a.xml

Watch the dollar fall so low it would make the post-WWII Deutsche Mark look like gold. The United States would become a third world country as all major banks and Wall Street would collapse. Given the nature of the global economy, it would trigger a global economic uber-depression.

But yeah...let's ban all Chinese products. I think launching a nuclear weapon might actually be less destructive.

[MarcUK]

here we all are sitting at the very end of western civilization. Did you see it coming? ;)

I wonder who is going to pull the plug on us first? We have been going around the world throwing our weight around for a hundred years and more, enslaving billions of people to do our bidding for us - and it has got us here. What an interesting place to be.

Somehow the US superpower and its allies, in the psychotic rush to rape everthing and everyone have suddenly found out that at a moments notice, that they can be made 3rd world rabble.

Witness the world around us, at the moment everyone is making a mad last minute grab to try to ensure their survival past 'day X' - thats the day when the mad chickens realise that there is nothing more to grab before the drop off the cliff face.

We all know were fucked, but it hasn't really hit home yet, and everyone is trying to shore up the straw castle, built on sand, while the tsunami can be seen looming large on the horizon.

I guess now its just spectator sport, waiting for the inevitable bloodbath, carnage and mayhem. How long do you give it?

so, lets all say thanks to people like SDW and trumptman, and the investment bankers buying the magic beans, the oil speculators, the extremely greedy and the selfish, the administration we all love to hate. Good job chaps, fucking good job.

We could play a game to kill the time. Lets remake the list of world superpowers, and the 3rd world countries as we envisige them a year after day X. The one who comes the closest can have a life-saving bowl of rice.

[@_@ Artman]

Consumption based economy without real production can only last as long as someone else is picking up the tab. In our case its China and Saudi Arabia. But once they stop the party is over.

The Gospel of Consumption (http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/2962)

And the better future we left behind

By the late 1920s, America’s business and political elite had found a way to defuse the dual threat of stagnating economic growth and a radicalized working class in what one industrial consultant called “the gospel of consumption”—the notion that people could be convinced that however much they have, it isn’t enough. President Herbert Hoover’s 1929 Committee on Recent Economic Changes observed in glowing terms the results: “By advertising and other promotional devices . . . a measurable pull on production has been created which releases capital otherwise tied up.” They celebrated the conceptual breakthrough: “Economically we have a boundless field before us; that there are new wants which will make way endlessly for newer wants, as fast as they are satisfied.”

And so began the Century of Self. (http://www.archive.org/details/AdaCurtisCenturyoftheSelf_0)

http://www.tate.org.uk/liverpool/exhibitions/shopping/images/consume_ishoptherefore_large.jpg

[jamac]

China is probably the largest counterfeiter of U.S. products in the world.
Why do we continually support the largest communist slave labor country?
All Chinese products should be banned from this country. They are poisoning us with lead paint in their products.
Here is a link to just one of the products that they counterfeit.
Be cautious when buying Square D circuit breakers. Many fires and accidents have been caused by this junk.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-7341385_ITM


I have just won a copyright suit against a US company who had one of my designs remade in China. I not only won against the store chain but will now sue the importer as well.

Most counter fitting is done due to demand from US and other countries. No one in China would actually need or want my design, there is no market for the product in question in China. I am doing a lot of business there and the people I work with are aware that Chinese counter fitting hurts them as well.

Currently many Chinese companies are in big financial trouble because of the weakening dollar. They made proposals that are already very tight and their profits disappeared when the $ value declined over the course of the manufacturing process.
I really wished I could keep all my manufacturing in the US but after 7 years of trying and loosing a lot of $$, getting shotty products and bad craftsmanship I reluctently gave up. My company has grown by leaps and bounds since I started manufacturing in China. They deliver on time (many times early) and out of 1,000 products I find 2 that are not perfect. (From US companies I had to scrap the entire production several times).

Most US companies who manufacture in China want the lowest possible price. What happens is that they will show you a prototype made from the more expensive materials. But we want another 5c cheaper.... and they say "OK" however they need to pay their bills as well and that's when the shortcuts come in and instead of your specs you get the 5c cheaper specs.

I really don't know what the answer is. Chinese people are very educated and once you gain insight into their culture you can make it work for you and they will deliver exactly what you want.

I believe we can change and control this but many people like Some Dimwitted Weirdos are too short sighted to attack the problem from the right direction. It is far to late to remove Chinas products from the world market. Simply whining will do nothing. If you can eat a handful of raw garlic, your copyrights will be protected in China. (That's really how it is!)

[SDW2001]

here we all are sitting at the very end of western civilization. Did you see it coming? ;)

That's a little extreme.



I wonder who is going to pull the plug on us first? We have been going around the world throwing our weight around for a hundred years and more, enslaving billions of people to do our bidding for us - and it has got us here. What an interesting place to be.

Enslaving billions of people to do our bidding. Alrighty then!



Somehow the US superpower and its allies, in the psychotic rush to rape everthing and everyone have suddenly found out that at a moments notice, that they can be made 3rd world rabble.

Who are we "raping" exactly...the Arabs...who sell us oil for $120 a barrel?



Witness the world around us, at the moment everyone is making a mad last minute grab to try to ensure their survival past 'day X' - thats the day when the mad chickens realise that there is nothing more to grab before the drop off the cliff face.

We all know were fucked, but it hasn't really hit home yet, and everyone is trying to shore up the straw castle, built on sand, while the tsunami can be seen looming large on the horizon.

I guess now its just spectator sport, waiting for the inevitable bloodbath, carnage and mayhem. How long do you give it?

A hell of a lot longer than you, apparently.



so, lets all say thanks to people like SDW and trumptman, and the investment bankers buying the magic beans, the oil speculators, the extremely greedy and the selfish, the administration we all love to hate. Good job chaps, fucking good job.

This from the man that wished I would die during my back surgery last fall.



We could play a game to kill the time. Lets remake the list of world superpowers, and the 3rd world countries as we envisige them a year after day X. The one who comes the closest can have a life-saving bowl of rice.

Yes, yes Mark. The day you have waited for is almost here! Soon the poor will be rich and rich will be poor! Justice! The end of the Cursed Earth will soon be upon us! Praise be to the God you don't believe in!

[Fellowship]

here we all are sitting at the very end of western civilization. Did you see it coming? ;)

I wonder who is going to pull the plug on us first? We have been going around the world throwing our weight around for a hundred years and more, enslaving billions of people to do our bidding for us - and it has got us here. What an interesting place to be.

Somehow the US superpower and its allies, in the psychotic rush to rape everthing and everyone have suddenly found out that at a moments notice, that they can be made 3rd world rabble.

Witness the world around us, at the moment everyone is making a mad last minute grab to try to ensure their survival past 'day X' - thats the day when the mad chickens realise that there is nothing more to grab before the drop off the cliff face.

We all know were fucked, but it hasn't really hit home yet, and everyone is trying to shore up the straw castle, built on sand, while the tsunami can be seen looming large on the horizon.

I guess now its just spectator sport, waiting for the inevitable bloodbath, carnage and mayhem. How long do you give it?

so, lets all say thanks to people like SDW and trumptman, and the investment bankers buying the magic beans, the oil speculators, the extremely greedy and the selfish, the administration we all love to hate. Good job chaps, fucking good job.

We could play a game to kill the time. Lets remake the list of world superpowers, and the 3rd world countries as we envisige them a year after day X. The one who comes the closest can have a life-saving bowl of rice.

MarcUK Don't let the spirit of the world get you down. If it has and I can't fault you for that get back up and be a force for good. The world needs it. We need to become frugal, practical and humble in ever increasing measure. We need to learn to adapt to the big tent that this world indeed is. The pressure is rising but so is the quality of people who are willing to be molded by the potter's hand.

I agree with you that the world is simply not just in countless areas. We need to be the change we wish to see in the world. By the simple act of living a purpose filled life we have opportunity after opportunity to serve our fellow neighbor. Don't let the powers of darkness leave you in a spirit of defeat, confusion and despair.

Some people say in tough times "Hang in there"...

Like a piece of laundry hanging on the line in the wind being whipped around and blowing every which way depending on the wind in a given moment.

I say Reject forcefully any notions of defeat / confusion / despair as well as the notion of "hanging in there".

Hanging in there is the wrong approach. Such a notion suggests you have no control and no defined direction or plan.

Defeat, confusion and despair are simply not options.. Don't bow down to these options.

STAND FOR SOMETHING and stand with trust and confidence in what you do and say. It will not be your own power so much but rather a mindset that is focused which will unleash opportunities to flourish and serve others.

All the while giving the glory to where it is due..

Always a friend,

Fellows

[SpamSandwich]

China is probably the largest counterfeiter of U.S. products in the world.
Why do we continually support the largest communist slave labor country?
All Chinese products should be banned from this country. They are poisoning us with lead paint in their products.
Here is a link to just one of the products that they counterfeit.
Be cautious when buying Square D circuit breakers. Many fires and accidents have been caused by this junk.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-7341385_ITM

I made a special trip to this mall in Shenzhen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7wS-wPrw6o) (known as the Lo Wu Mall). It houses many hundreds of vendors of all counterfeit products. Every kind of high-end product you could imagine (short of cars and boats). A mall this big exists with the full knowledge and cooperation of the Chinese government because they get a cut of all sales. An operation this large puts the fraud in Tijuana to shame... It's shocking how this goes on right in the open with the tacit approval of their government, but this is China today.

I'd just love it if NBC sent their camera crews to this location during the Olympics. That would sour the world on China even quicker than Tibet.

Found an old NY Times article on this spot also: Link (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504E0DD1238F931A35751C0A96F9582 60&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)

[Powerdoc]

China is probably the largest counterfeiter of U.S. products in the world.
Why do we continually support the largest communist slave labor country?
All Chinese products should be banned from this country. They are poisoning us with lead paint in their products.
Here is a link to just one of the products that they counterfeit.
Be cautious when buying Square D circuit breakers. Many fires and accidents have been caused by this junk.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-7341385_ITM

China has invested tons of money in the US ecnomy, and USA is the second economic partner of China.
Whatever you like it or not, there is a big partnership between this two countries. And frankly in case of china who support who ?

PS : nice to see you here fellowship

[Fellowship]

PS : nice to see you here fellowship

Bonjour Powerdoc! What a pleasure it is to see you!

I hope you and your family are all doing well. Please post more often when you have the chance!

With complete respect,

Fellows

[MarcUK]

MarcUK Don't let the spirit of the world get you down. If it has and I can't fault you for that get back up and be a force for good. The world needs it. We need to become frugal, practical and humble in ever increasing measure. We need to learn to adapt to the big tent that this world indeed is. The pressure is rising but so is the quality of people who are willing to be molded by the potter's hand.

I agree with you that the world is simply not just in countless areas. We need to be the change we wish to see in the world. By the simple act of living a purpose filled life we have opportunity after opportunity to serve our fellow neighbor. Don't let the powers of darkness leave you in a spirit of defeat, confusion and despair.

Some people say in tough times "Hang in there"...

Like a piece of laundry hanging on the line in the wind being whipped around and blowing every which way depending on the wind in a given moment.

I say Reject forcefully any notions of defeat / confusion / despair as well as the notion of "hanging in there".

Hanging in there is the wrong approach. Such a notion suggests you have no control and no defined direction or plan.

Defeat, confusion and despair are simply not options.. Don't bow down to these options.

STAND FOR SOMETHING and stand with trust and confidence in what you do and say. It will not be your own power so much but rather a mindset that is focused which will unleash opportunities to flourish and serve others.

All the while giving the glory to where it is due..

Always a friend,

Fellows

Im not down at all. Infact im very up. There is no feeling of defeat, confusion and despair here - because this is what I have been expecting for a very long time, and I have made plans and preperations appropriately.

I dont know if ive made enough plans and preperations to see myself through to the end, but if I had a crystal ball....But anyway, I saw all this coming and while near everyone else carried on selling their souls, I built myself a fortress, financially and mentally - and whatever happens now, I'll come out the other side with nothing but a few minor scrapes.

Really, my joy in all this - is watching the world go insane as the 'wages of sin' finally catch up with them. Im no religious person, but I know what is fair, honest and decent, and I live my life within my means, have a small footprint and built a castle a brick at a time.

Like everyone else, I could have bought a mansion, drove around in sports cars, rammed my mansion full of stuff bought on credit, had everything I wanted yesterday, and some more on top.

There has been a price of that - and I was happy to bear it. Everyone else pointing the finger and smirking, wondering if I was a drop out, wondering if I was a bit wierd, if I was mentally ill and a whole host of other things that could have bought me down - all because I chose to live my life like our grandparents would, work hard, play fair, treat people honestly and decently.

Im not caught up with the rat-race scum, and have nothing whatsoever to lose, so whatever happens i'll be fine.

For the rest of you, youre going to get what you deserve. Im not bitter and twisted, just a philosophical observer of a suicidal game I wasn't going to play.

[SpamSandwich]

Incidentally, it might interest you to note that some Chinese companies also invest in the US (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fi-chinainvest5-2008may05,0,2206623.story?page=1). Not all capital "disappears". What comes around, goes around.